Ssangsudo - Not a Fantasy Weapon! Plus 3 ways to draw a giant sword [Response to
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- See Skallagrim's original video here: • Let's Talk about Final...
In Skallagrim's video he looks at 2 replicas of Sephiroth from Final Fantasy's sword and talks about how it isn't practical and how you would need superhuman strength to use it. However, that sword is actually a real sword, with a historic manual detailing its use known in Korean as the Ssangsudo! In my video I refute some of the points made by Skallagrim and the CEO of Fire and Steel in his video for why such a blade can't be a real life sword.
Always be aware of your surroundings and minimise harm to yourself, others and your environment. Never use weapons when intoxicated or upset or for any act of violence.
If you live in Sydney we’d love to train with you, check out our club here: www.koreanhistoricfencing.com/
If you want to learn more about Jedok Geom and Korean Swordsmanship check out my book here: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/jose...
If you would like to support the channel you can buy me a coffee here: www.buymeacoffee.com/justabug Thanks to everyone who has supported the channel, your coffees are much appreciated!
Check out my Instagram at just_a_bug_swordsman for more content.
For messages and reaching out to the channel email me at justabug.yt@outlook.com - Sport
Oh wow! That's WILD! I hope Skall sees this! I want to see more people diving into the use of this now!
He did!
This sword is the sword my gf says not to worry about
But she always hangs out with him
Did you notice the look on Caras face, when she held that sword…(Skalls video)? 😁
when she says size doesn't matter
It's funny that as with Iberian montante, this was a shipboard weapon. Deck clearing with a giant sword seems pretty universal.
Even in tight spaces, like street alleys and underdeck galleys.
I love how you mentioned three methods of unsheathing the sword yet completely glazed over just how effortlessly you did so at 2:07. Brilliant video.
Wasn't aware there was an organization like this in sydney! Very happy to hear this.
@@revolutionaryfoxinist2377 you're welcome to drop in anytime in the first four weeks of each term
@@JustaBug What do you mean by term? Like, school/university terms?
Nevermind, I just checked your website and understand what you mean by term. I'll check out travel routes, I'm definitely intrigued
greetings from skall's channel, I think this was a great response to his video and we need more people responding to his content, especially his older content because I know he wants to go back and fix some things but he's worried it won't be "relevant" so any response video is a good video for him.
One aspect of Sephiroth's Masamune that tends to be overlooked on the way to finding real-world analogues like nodachi/odachi/the ssangsudo here/etc. is that 1) the blade is extra long - usually the length of a nodachi (5-7 ft) on its own - and 2) the handle is the size/shape of a regular katana's. Both of these would make a real sword extra unwieldy, and thus no real historical sword is a _perfect_ analogue. I do think Skallagrim focused overmuch on his sword-drawing woes, and I appreciate your knowledge about historical draw methods; that behind-the-head draw was pretty slick.
I think this is just an issue of focusing on one particular style of sword. Skallagrim is clearly an European style practioner so his skill base would bias him towards the way western swords are built and their contruction. He would subconsciously apply western sword bias on the media he reviews and the masamune is a good example of that.
tbf sephiroth himself is a almost 2m in height so bug (or any average asian heigh guy) with ssangsudo is still a good analogy.
Masamune as it exists in the games is completely impractical to real humans, and splitting hairs on real world Nodachi drawing techniques ultimately just distracts from the point.
@@SethAbercromby I don't know that it necessarily is or that they necessarily do. While they aren't _100%_ analogous, real-world long tachi do serve the purpose of pointing out that, while the Masamune is somewhat exaggerated, it's not overly so and not to the point of unbelievability. Of the myriad fantasy weapons out there, the Masamune is among the most "could (have) exist(ed) in the real world."
I think a significant part of the reason why people are focusing on Skallagrim's comments about sheathing and unsheathing such a weapon is that said comments are just the clearest demonstration of both his (self-admitted) ignorance and, more critically, how that ignorance can lead to straight up bad commentary. (He talks about the Masamune, nodachi, and katana interchangeably, and uses the nodachi as one would a katana, things he would know to distinguish if the weapons were, say, a longsword, a zweihander, and Aragorn's Anduril. I get it's a casual video with casual commentary, but even so.)
Plus that behind-the-head draw IS slick as hell. 😄
@@muchluck7981 Personally I feel he just forgot that you can apply other sword techniques to a longer blade, see: Zweihänder. He treated it like you would use it like a normal length blade, and not whirl it around like a Zweihänder
Awesome, keen to hear more about Korean "hema" in future. The behind the head draw is great! Never seen that before.
my odachi is only 152 cm. I might have chosen this if I had been aware. Thank you for the great video Bug.
Skall reacted which is how i found you. I love the casual and respectful back and forth. Im a nerd for any historical arms and armor.
Definitely subbing
Ps if your interested in a one-on-one chat with skall for content lemme know, done some work with skall in the past and im sure he’d be interested.
I shared your vid on skallagrims channel
Thanks!
Qi Jiguang's manual also mentions reverse-gripping the blade to unsheathe, it gives you just a bit more reach to pull the sword out by yourself.
Hoping Skallagrim sees this...
Always wondered about Korean swords and weapons, so this video recommendation is fantastic...
Good video mate, always lovely to see this kind of swords in action, recently I saw similar exemples from Cambodia, it seems that wherever Japanese and South chinese people settled they adopted these swords.
@@theghosthero6173 yeah I've seen some Cambodian examples. If you can bring big sword with you, why not?
oh man, those cambodian swords are beautiful
This is super cool. I never would have thought about a weapon like this being used by pirates, but it really does make a ton of sense.
Lovely video!
I also saw a video with shogo from lets ask shogo and seki sensei where they talk about really long japanese swords.
And appareantly drawing them has developed into a form of performance. It was really interesting and they also showed some techniques for drawing, making it look very smooth and deceptivly easy.
Saw it too. Was amazing to watch.
I have no idea why the algorithm suggested this video to me, since I don't follow you or Skallagrim, but I'm glad to have seen it. Fantastic video, very informative, loved the demonstrations.
The Chinese had something similar. It's called the ZhanMaDao, which literally means "horse cutter" and it was used in The Han Dynasty to stop cavalry charges by cutting off the horse's legs. The sword was 79 inches or 6 feet, 5 inches, so it had the range. There was also a weapon called the ChangDao (long saber) used by elite Tang Dynasty infantry. The sword was 7 feet in length and it was like a sword and a polearm.
You messed up a lot of the dynasties and common terms. The large two handed sword was used since the Han dynasty in various forms. The names Changdao is just "two handed saber" while Zhanmadao is "horse cutting saber". There's also names like Miaodao and Dandao. Regardless, the most well recorded use was in the Ming Dynasty as an answer to Nodachi/Odachi and Nagamaki wielders of the Woku forces. The longer swords were meant to duel against them or were adopted due to the effectiveness of those two handed swords. Generally they were all big 6+ ft in length, but nothing exact. Likely they were fit to the wielder. Doubled edge jians also existed since the Han dynasty in various capacities with museum examples surviving today. But the horse cutting name is a translation misinterpretation. There's no real recorded use of it in a battlefield capacity, but rather a testament to its ability to cut through a horse. They appear to mostly be used as execution swords and fit the same profiles as their European counterparts. Likewise Zhanmadao also refers to halberds in the Ming dynasty. Translations are tricky.
Wow, I've never seen a long habaki (or the Korean equivalent term) like that before! It reminds me of the cloth wrappings on nakamaki nodachi (中巻野太刀), supposed precursor of the nagamaki (長巻).
@@ShuajoX Yeah, it's almost certainly derived from that. But improved because now it's fixed on the sword and it aids in stiffening
Ah, my favorite sword: the Japanese Montante.
@@Ranstone korean montante. Or my favourite is to call it the Korean zweihander, because the English translation of both is two handed sword
@@JustaBug I'd say its the Korean/Japanese kriegmesser/swiss saber, but I'm just being pedantic.
In the end, large war swords were used in very similar ways/circumstances. Korean Montonte is a good description
@RedRobin2010
My understanding was allways that the messer was a much shorter weapon. More similar in length to longswords or katanas.
Atleast whenever I have seen someone use a messer in a video it had dimensions like that.
@@sportenapfeltorten2095The Langes Messer (literally translated as long knife) does indeed refer to a shorter sword - usually around 80-90cm total - similar to an arming sword. They were typically straight or slightly curved, single edged, though often with the false edge clipped and/or sharpened near the tip.
However they are distinct from the Kreigsmesser (literally translated as war knife), which was a larger two handed sword, usually around 110-130cm total - similar to a longsword or katana.
They were also single edged; again often with a sharpened false edge near the tip, but unlike the Langes Messer, they were almost always curved.
@@akkeriworkshop
Thank you for the explanation, and the translation!
I am German
:D
I was just confused because RedRobin2010 was saying that the ssangsudo was a "korean kriegsmesser" and that didnt make sense to me because as you described Langmesser but also Kriegsmesser where definitly not the european size-equivalent to the ssangsoudo.
Unless I am still not understanding something.
:)
💯💯💯All I saw is metallurgy and Martial perfection.
Swinging big swords is good for shoulder health.
Wow this is fascinating, I would not have guessed that such a large sword originated in use by pirates. You would think they might opt for more compact weapons, something akin to a cutlass or something of similar proportions, given the confined spaces of ships. But the area denial aspect makes total sense. Great video!
and subbed. love when people deep dive into old historical weapon manuals. especially obscure ones.
You should see if you and Skall can do a collaboration somehow
I know the Long Sword that is ming influenced has reached Southeast Asia in the 16th-17th century. Apparently, In Cambodia, the long sword was used in warfare. When the Qing expelled the Ming, they headed to Vietnam, but the emperor told them they lived in the Mekong Delta. The ex-ming actually ended up living at a port in Cambodia. They ended up making their own trade center. Their sword was locally produced and it used local and Chinese material.
Its so cool that there's a Korean HEMA
Korean Historical _European_ Martial Arts>?
HKMA I guess lol
"History is a fantasy that doesn't exist!!"
-Skallagrim
Just a point to skallagrim here, maybe he didn't bring up that sword but looking at sephiroth's sword the blade is longer than his body and the handle is a lot shorter, maybe not completely unwieldable but not exactly optimum.
It's easy:
1. Swing at an enemy at distance.
2. The scabbard becomes a ranged weapon.
3. ???
4. Your enemy is already dead and now your sword is unsheathed.
Those swords must've been one hell of a project to forge back in the day. Quite a showpiece.
Hello, I found your channel on this video and was surprised to see someone outside of Korea researching this subject. I watched multiple of your video and if possible I would like to discuss a few points from the previous video if that is not too much for you. thank you for the video.
Thanks for watching my video! You're always welcome to shoot me an email at Justabug.yt@outlook.com and I will do my best to reply
@@JustaBug Thank you!
had no idea this existed thank you!! interested in your future vid
This is totally wicked! Great video 😊
Thanks!
As someone who practices buhurt I'm now imagining seeing someone using one of those
Bug thank you for this video! That behind the shoulders drawing method is something that not even considered with a large, single edged Asian sword but wow that works well & as you said lines your beautifully for an immediate cut.
To be fair, I think the one Skall used was 210cm or something around there. So that is a 35cm increase, which can REALLY make it floppy. So to not make it floppy you pretty much have to make it thicker, which results in a heavier blade. Now 175cm is not a too unrealistic length, there were two handers that were that long, but they also tapered in blade thickness and had a secondary handle on top of the regular guard, so the blade was stiffer and you could also swing it faster, compremising a bit of slashing power, but Skall also made a very good point and that is it's not very good against attacks, since the torque that would be generated from striking the end of the blade would be so big it's pretty much impossible to counteract it.
I think Skall was more thinking of a sword you would use while alone and something that you would carry. Now for crowd control it is actually a pretty good weapon, no one wants to come close to someone with a sword the length of a person. So if someone tried to board your ship you would certainly fend them off quite good. Although something like a spear in my opinion could do the same exact thing, and can be even longer without compromising anything since it's just meant for thrusting. But if there are like multiple bridges to your ship it would be better in that case, since one swing could defend both.
But it's a pretty sick weapon not going to lie, definitely wouldn't want to get close to that.
Any weapon can really work, just some a better for certain thing. Like you certainly wouldn't carry this if you were on foot, since it'd be quite cumbersome
So, this awesome giant sword was used by pirates… epic. This was a really good video!
Love the polite disagreement in your response. Can't stand when people are just like 'YOU'RE WRONG!' or whatever. Keep up the good work, sir!
Great explainer, mate! And I'm happy for you that Skall actually got back to you on the topic. Love that cross-discipline sharing of insights and interpretations 😁
I enjoyed this video. It's informative and concise, and I appreciate that you didn't talk trash or try to start a rivalry with Skallagrim or anything silly like that.
Glad you’re still posting man! Also that is a comically large sword! XD
Thanks! Yeah, it's quite the whopper
When I used to do Japanese martial arts we had some Odachi/Nodachi stuff. I never got a chance to use a real one though; alas.
We had the two people drawing each other’s swords method.
Can’t wait to see your full interpretation.
I see Ssangsudo, I upvote.
Great video mate. Quick point question, I don’t know if it’s specified in the Korean text, but for the draw over the head, does it specifically say to just drop the scabbard? I know there are some dynamic draw for long Chinese forms, and I’m wondering if this might be a situation where if your arm span is not long enough for your given blade, you can even kind of “ shoot the scabbard” off of the end of the blade since you discarding it anyway.
We are simple me. Big sword. Big thumbs up.
It doesn't specifically say to drop the sheath. But the form follows on straight into two handed cuts so my interpretation is you drop the sheath. Shooting it off would probably be preferable to being caught stuck trying to draw, though I've not directly seen any manuals advocate for it. Would be keen to know if you have seen any
@@JustaBugI think Shogo has a vid where his kenjutsu sensei demonstrates a similar thing, but the opposite - shooting the odachi out of the saya. They say it’s a traditional method of their school. Edit: found it czcams.com/video/hFVL0RzmbbI/video.htmlsi=SGx030EjjeNTAeAb.
More theatrical version of the draw form from Dan Dao Fa Xuan.
@@mulli032 I was going to try the Seki Sensei method with my nodachi when his vid first came out but thought nah!, I want to keep all my fingers 🙂
@@gazza8234 why you need that long blade collar!
WOKOU PIRATES MENTIONED, WE GETTING OUT OF NAVAL DUTIES WITH THIS ONE, TEAM.
I always just figured the Masamune was an exaggerated odachi.
I'm not versed in historical weaponry at all, but I see big sword and I become happy. Very good and informative video, I hope Skall sees this and keeps the conversation going.
important thing about giant swords. Your arm span is equal to your height (give or take 5 to 10cm) so as long as the blade doesn't go higher than roughly your chin, you can unsheath it "naturaly" (accounting for closed fist)
Indeed
WOW THATS SO COOL I learned something!! I didn't even know that there was a Korean equivalent to HEMA!
Thank you very much for sharing your hard work 😊
To be fair, the sword skall and the CEO were referring was way bigger than the one that you are using, which is much more reasonable (the 1st sword in that video was about 205cm long) but you mention that this kind of swords can reach about 210 cm so i am curios about those, since from personal experience with sword reconstructions is hard to not make a blade that long not overly wobbly.
@@lucamonticelli267 honestly, that's just not true. I've used montante that are 210cm that have some flex but aren't the wobbly noodle mess that skall showed. You start thicker with distal taper, it's how most ssangsudo are made so that they have less mass at the tip to make it wobble. I think it's likely that skalls fantasy one was made from an even thickness blank which is just wobble city
Looking forward to further insights on this weapon!
I see some serious quality info from you in the Related tab, so I'm gonna subscribe and binge your videos for a bit :P
Thanks for subscribing! There's probably a fair bit in my older videos that I don't stand by anymore as Ive learnt more or grown more as a martial artist, but its still good to look back and see what I thought at the time of publishing those older vids. Hope you like them!
Just an additional note, the Kage-ryū mentioned here probably is NOT the one that is ancestor art of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū (Kage-ryū characters 陰流), but rather the still extant, but less famous, Kage-ryū using characters 影流. The second Kage-ryū is best known for using very large swords, or "chōken", as they like to call them. To find info on them without getting hits on Yagyū Shinkage-ryū, use kanji characters as your search term.
That said, the first Sephiroth sword Skallagrim handled in that video probably was another foot (30cm) or so longer than the sword shown here. Ah, well, time to watch Skall response to your response.
oh, that looks familiar, Lady Eboshi's bodyguard draws his sword like that in Princess Mononoke during the night raid scene. leave it to Miyazaki to get something like that correct.
To be fair, it's still half the length of Sephiroth sword
Absolutely fascinating! Had no idea these swords were real, good work
Oh wow havent see you in a long while! Glad to see you are still on the platform!
Thanks namazu! Still posting infrequently
@@JustaBug Keep them coming! Always appreciate your post!
Love this, I need to get a ssangsudo!
Honestly, yes, swords this big can work. I don't know what Skall was thinking when things like the Zweihander and Montante exist. But imagine using a version that's closer to the original design of the Masamune, with the shorter handle and blade that's taller than Sephiroth himself (he's like at least six feet iirc).
210cm ssangsudo are documented in the manual. The shorter handle would probably make it more difficult but I can't imagine it making it difficult to the point of needing superhuman strength, especially because most of how you use these swords is momentum conservation
If i remember correct, then he said, that binding would work against you, since the blade acts as a massive lever. Or generally, that binding and redirecting such a long blade would be easy for the opponent, because of leverage. And you would have the same problems with other great swords too, just not to that extent.
You're not fighting out of the bind with these swords. It was a pretty stupid comment, because yes, trying to bind would work against you. But it'd be like saying all polearms are useless because the opponent can grab the shaft. Weapons are used based on their inherent advantages and disadvantages and the systems of use of weapons differs based on what they can do. If someone tries to bind my ssangsudo in a full swing....well good luck. It'll blast through most guards and if it doesn't it's quicker just to cut round the other side than try to engage in winning a bind. It's what every greatsword manual advocates
most depictions the sword is the same size as sephiroth with some odd shots making it larger or twice his size. and hes estimated to be 6'1" - 6'4" 193-194 cm and the handles close to a nodachi's length rather then a katanas shorter one. based on it look's like 3 of his hands would fit on it.
im 5'6"-5'7" (170-173cm) and I use a odachi with a 100cm blade but I modified it to have a 11 inch (27cm) katanas handle instead of the 22 inch(55 cm) one it came with and I don't find it any more challenging to control, so I don't see his sword being all that much harder to control with a 11 inch handle and dont think it would cause any issues with one like the 22inch handle my sword came with or something in between the 2
@@JustaBug Personally, with swords this large, that would be a lenght, where i would consider switching to a polearm or spear of the same lenght - same reach, less or identical weigh, but longer grip. I am 180cm, and would prefer swords, that are shoulder high, in my case 140cm or max 150 cm total lenght - above that i would take a spear with a sharpened blade, or a sword staff or naginata type of weapon.
Sephiroth is 6'1"(185cm) and his sword is 6'6"(198cm). It's in an even LARGER category than the sword being shown. Love the video!
really cool video on a really cool weapon with some really cool history
Amazing & concise video. I'm so happy this was recommended. I'm not even a skallagrim sub.
Great video! It's always nice to learn something new! :)
From what I can see, Sephiroth hold his sword casually in one hand, and it's blade is as long as he is tall, so that would require superhuman abilities or magic :)
Cheers!
Thanks! Glad to share.
I can casually hold my sword in one hand and its longer than I am tall. I'm also not particularly strong for a non superhuman
He doese't just hold it with one hand, mind you. He treats it like a one-handed weapon!
Great video! While I know how hard is to create, train and fight with such a weapon, it's great to see than we actually can have some big ass swords in reality :D
Hello brother! I practice korean martial arts, and I train with a Ssangsudo myself! I've been looking for historical references of the Ssangsudo because usually I find more about 150cm long maximum, and it's really difficult for someone who doesn't know korean (yet, working on it) to find proper sources. Lovely video! I use a LK Silver Swallow Miao Dao for my Ssangsudo forms.
Your videos were always really useful for me when researching sword brands mate!
Glad to hear someone else is training in the ssangsudo. The main historic reference is the ssangsudo manual in muyedobotongji and it has the specs listed which comes out to a 1.8m sword. If you want to discuss historic swordsmanship more and sources you can always shoot me questions via email or instagram though I probably reply quicker to email
@@JustaBug thanks a lot! It's been in my shop list since forever. Appreciate the help and the passion for the art. Just you know there are some practitioners that really love korean style fencing in Spain!
Very interesting, I do not think I heard of the area control with a sword on a ship before
Aw man if I was still in Sydney I'd have been VERY interested in learning Korean HEMA. Still, it's a good thing you're doing =u=
수고하새요~
Nice. I'm curious to see the results of your training one of these days... or in the next few years.
Looks more like they wanted to make a swordsman act more like a spearman or halberd wielder without hurting the swordsmans feelings.
I absolutely love thin giant swords like this
The main reason to use this sword is it's cool.
Sweet! Now we need some vids of you guys sparing with those big boys! Though I imagine you'd maybe have to come up with your own trainer swords? I have trained a lot with the lighter weight European big swords, like the montante, and it is amazing how maneuverable they are, I think it has to do with having the hands so far apart, and having the "counter weight " part of the pomel so far back from the guard, it really makes the tip feel light. I imagine your swords weight would be somewhere in the middle of the lightest and heaviest European style 2 handers. I haven't found any historical evidence to support it, but I have a theory as a professional machinist, that a benefit of the really long blades was that back when the metal quality was so poor, sword breakage was very common (there is good historical documentation of that, one of the reasons for the Japanese 2 sword style) so if you have an average size sword and it snaps in half from some impurity in the steel, you have a big dagger, if you start with a 6' sword, and it snaps in half, you still have an average size sword! Hah. In addition to all the usual benefits the historical manuals say, like it was good for body guards and times when you have one guy vs. Many guys, or when you have 2 pike formations that are evenly matched, if one has some zweihanders run in and shake things up it can really benefit their side.
Even the lengths of swords you mentioned aren’t as long as sephiroph’s sword. His sword is seven and a half feet long.
. < the point you > .
Sephiroth is about 6'1"-6'6" depending on your source. So a seven foot sword for someone of that height is not that crazy. I don't know this guy's height but that historical sword is approx 6" taller than him.
What's actually crazy is that the 6 foot sword was used at a time when the average height in Korea was around 5 feet. Imagine using a sword 120% of your height all day. Some even went up to 7 feet in length in the documents of swords that were used
210cm is only about 7 inches shorter than 7' 6". That's not so far off to put it into the realm of fantasy, especially given Sephiroth's height.
what's really funny is there are techniques for close combat with single edge swords of that length...for instance the position you were in with the sword on your shoulder and the hilt up on your right...if you bring the hilt down to your left (cutting motion) and roll the back of the sword across your chest, you can make a devastating, very powerful and fast cut that has a much closer range (like some of the chinese dao forms)
Wow. That’s crazy. That is a WILD sword!
Always love the history! Out of curiosity, would they have hung them at the hip or held them sheathed as you do in the video?
From the way he talks about dropping the sheath I’d say they were carried in the hand.
I've not seen any documentation of a sword longer than 145cm total length on the hip in any ming chinese or korean texts. Makes sense too, I think that's the maximum without taking out your fellow soldiers' knees
Yeah, I know Nodachis are a thing. Not sure why Skal said a Nodachi would be impractical to wield. BUT! i'm glad he said that and you came to respond. Cuz now i found your channel! :D
Thank you for being a rational martial artist!
You earned yourself a sub 💪
I've seen someone draw a nodachi from a seated position before. That technique has you half draw, grab the blade, then continue drawing. A bit unorthodox, but looked fairly elegant all things considered
New sub here from skalls channel, thanks for the info!
Il be watching your other vids too
Very enjoyable video and informative to, keep up good work 👍
Thanks!
You are very welcome
best described as a real life fantasy weapon
thank you for the lesson
He was talking about the 3m blade long one. But even that one is still useable esp for the one intended for, most of the time more like a spear.
This is the coolest thing I've ever seen
I think Skalls main problem was, that the handle is way shorter than the handle shown here.
And did I get that right, the sword is 1.75m but they could get up to a length of 2.1m?
Here from what I understand is that you are saying:
Ssangsudo is a version of (colloquially called) "Crossbowman Dao" (Chang Dao 長刀 i.e. Long Dao), which may be Miao Dao 苗刀 (i.e. grass cutter), which is a bootleg copy of (potentially) Oodachi (大太刀 i.e. big tachi -which is any sword much longer than a regular 2 Japanese chi Tachi; ) due to the difference and lack of understanding of Japanese metalworking.
Or that Ssangsudo roughly refers to any two handed dao sword (i.e. transliterated from possibly 双手刀 which means two handed dao) that has its origins from China/Japan (i.e Zhan ma dao 斬馬刀, or 長刀, or 苗刀)
Though I haven't watched skall's video to really comment about the other main points made in this video
No, the crossbowmans dao is a shorter chang dao in cheng zongyous manual. The miaodao is a republican era creation. The ssangsudo is an exceptionally long chang dao that general qi jiguang made a system for based of Japanese odachi. The zhan ma dao is a much earlier sword of large proportions but notably different design. These are all different swords with different historical origins
@@JustaBug
Thank you for your reply! I think I just got mixed up with different writers from china in the 10 minutes I had earlier.
Apologies in advance if I seem like I am disparaging you, but I am not. But thanks to this response video, I guess I now have a channel to watch/educate myself regarding Korean "HEMA" (HKMA? JJD?), yay!
Now regards to Skallagrim's video, the first replica sword from medievaldepot between 0:00~1:47 mark is 78" total (57" blade) or 198 cm. It is likely not made to be functional but rather to make it look like the prop, which is why it is so flimsy (and I believe he is commenting that that version was flimsy). In the video, skall and a different shop owner later talk about how Sephiroth's sword is 7 foot (213 cm). I think a functional sword might be much stiffer and as a result maybe heavier.
The Ssangsudo you have in your possession is about 175 cm, which at 6:08, you demonstrated that you were able to max out your arms to draw it out with the scabbard hitting the floor. I am not very convinced that it is possible if it was an additional 20-30 cm (i.e. two or more clenched fists)
I would agree though at 2:16 that swinging the Ssangsudo with only air resisting it is not really a problem, but regarding unwieldiness of a 190cm weapon, as someone who has watched Skall's content off and on since maybe 2012, I would like to believe Skall is talking about a combination of stopping the momentum (which both of you would agree not to do, but is something i'd imagine done a lot in FF7 and maybe needing to stop one's swing to trust and parry as needed?), long usage of the weapon (i.e. one hour? a duration longer than single sparring match), objects in the room get in the way of swinging, that people use the tip of the blade to leverage against you and if you attempted to use the sword according to HEMA techniques.
Thanks for your time and sharing this video, and I apologize for such a long text. i've took a glance at the channel and seen some things that interest me, and will take a look when I have the time!
@@albinoasesino absolutely agree the first sephiroth sword skall showed was a prop. With regards to drawing over the head that's recorded for use with a 1.8m sword, I agree I might struggle with a 2.1m sword. Though that's an emergency draw and there were 2.1m ssangsudo used, almost always you just had another person take the sheathe.
With regards to unwieldiness, the techniques for a big sword are all about conservation of momentum, the sword doesn't stop unless it hits something. And when it does, you're not fighting the sword to stop it, you just swing it back round the other way. Giant swords like this are fantastic to use, even for long periods of time. You wouldn't be using this anywhere you have things you don't want to hit. It's a great area denial weapon. There are forms with the overgrip to shorten the reach when you need it for those situations but it's not really the weapons main use.
I like skalls content. I just think this time he and the fire and steel owner got too caught up in what's impractical and jumped the gun and wrote off the possibility of a real sword with those proportions
Out of interest, I quickly looked up how long the example was Skall was holding, and that one was almost exactly 2 meters (200,66cm/6'7"), and as you explained, the Ssangsudo could be up to 2,1m. Damn that is a long blade.
I suppose because the Sephiroth blade was not balanced correctly because it was a wallhanger, Skallagrim found more difficult to wield than the actual weapon would be.
And from what you said and showcased, I guess this is pretty similar used like a Greatsword/Zweihänder, and I was surprised Skall himself didn't think about that aswell.
Thank you
zweihänder was quite sort ;-) there was the so called "Gassenhauer - Schwert" it was quite longer than an ordinary Zweihänder
Great stuff, love a good response video
Eeey calling out the Skall 😁
Serious note, great vid as always mate 👍 would be keen to see if Skallagrim engages and we end up having a cool chat about this.
Thanks! Not so much calling out skall, just sometimes it's easy to get caught up in "that's not practical it can't be real" that people forget historically many crazy things were indeed real
@@JustaBugFor sure, more just saying it to draw some attention 👍 great to see big swords are being brought out there more often.
Awesome video about this magnificent sword.
Very interesting. Now why is your doorknob 5 feet high?
@@Ranstone we train in a scout hall and I think it's made higher so small kids can't enter the cleaning storeroom and eat the chemicals even if it's accidentally left unlocked
To be fair, this Two-Handed Saber (Shuangshoudao, also referred to as a Changdao) is originally from China and was transmitted to Korean during the Imjin War.
@@mugenGRTC yes, but qi jiguang got it from the wokou pirates. It's documented in Qi's changdao manual
@@JustaBug That's questionable, he did mention Japanese swords, but some of his comments are historical nonsense and were perhaps political in nature. For example, Japanese sword could not cut thru Chinese blades. Also the idea that the Changdao is just a copy of a Japanese sword ignores centuries of Chinese two-handed swords that existed in the empire- czcams.com/video/h8e8X2kcdEk/video.html
@@JustaBug "It is commonly suggested in contemporary Chinese martial circles that General Qi created his shuāngshǒudāo form and training methods from information he gather from captured “Japanese” pirates he was sent to fight. An examination of the historical record and the application of basic common sense shows this suggestion to have no merit. Even worse, it ignores, in typical Chinese partisan political fashion, that first of all, the vast majority of wōkòu (倭寇) pirates General Qi faced were more often than not, local Chinese. Period records state that as little as 10% of the pirates were foreigners with upper estimates being only 30%. Indeed, all Ming period records stressed the leading role played by native Chinese." Quoted from Ming Military Swordsmanship by S.M. Rodell
@@mugenGRTCI was under the impression that long two handed Chinese swords existed for over a thousand years before the Changdao (since at least the Qin and Han era in the 200s BC), but the Changdao itself was a hybrid model partially infuenced by the Japanese nodachi because they made it curved (the previous two handed swords were all straight jians or straight daos).
@@Intranetusa There were certainly two-handed long sabers in China before the Ming period. The automatic assumption generally put forward that the Changdao was based on the Japanese nodachi is never also presented by primary source material.
The basic idea is the pirates were Japanese so the obviously carried nodachi and that's where the Chinese got them. The problem with that suggestion is that period records show that the pirates at that time were not Japanese but the vast majority were Chinese. Period memorials to the throne reporting on the piracy clearly state this.
The historical records shows the vast majority of wōkòu (倭寇) pirates General Qi faced were more often than not, local Chinese. Period records state that as little as 10% of the pirates were foreigners with upper estimates being only 30%. Indeed, all Ming period records stressed the leading role played by native Chinese.
I'm pretty sure I've never heard of the possibility I was thinking of.
Surely you can also draw a sword by throwing the scabbard away with a quick circular movement of the sword?
Also in the direction of the opponent? At least if the sword has already been pulled out a bit.
It's probably not easy, needs a special technique so that the sword sheath doesn't jam, but whatever.
The curve and length would probably make that difficult; and as the video mentions, scabbards are not easy to replace if damaged or lost, especially for a blade that long...
Cool vid, but Skall had even bigger sword. At least it seems like it. It will be nice to have that comparison..
Thank you for this
Interesting and informative video, however sound from recording in the hall was kind of distracting.
Thanks! Yeah, the echo wasn't great but I filmed it before my class so it was all we had. Not a sword you can use in your normal home so the usual filming places were out
Improper weilding also costs an arm and a leg. Literally.
Skall sent me. What's up, Bug. Nice vid. Make more plz.