Sins of a Solar Empire 2 is Finally Ready!
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- Corey takes a look at the final changes to Sins of a Solar Empire 2 with the addition of the Advent ahead of the final release on August 15th!
Sins on Steam: steam.gs/l/157j...
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#Sins2 #sinsofasolarempire
I have over 3000 hours on sins rebellion. I will hopefully et another 3000 hours in sins 2. I look forward to y'alls mods corey. I know you will make some good ones.
We have no plans to make mods at this point
@@CoreyLoses Is that because the game is just coming out? In a year or so after it has bugs fixed, and more content, will there be the possibility? I'm guessing the answer is still unsure?
@@CoreyLoses Awwwww loved your teams' sins mod bro!
Just can't get into empire at war as the land battles are such a distraction from the aweome naval combat and galaxy strategic layer...
I mean you guys should look forward to the Sins of the Prophets 2 which uses the previous game's engine. There are not going to be a lot of mod for a game that's just coming out so you'll have to wait regardless.
@@CoreyLoseswhaaat? Nooo, I''m getting a refund for this game 😅
I am so glad they did not go down the Dawn of War 3 or the Homeworld 3 route. I have been playing the epic version and have been loving it, feels similar enough but different enough from the past SINS.
why specifically dawn of war 3? that entire series is just a design lesson in wild gameplay swings.
@@Ariaelyne Relic had said it would be more like DOW1, instead we ended up with a MOBA with Warhammer characters, and foundations for infinite MTX. It did not end well.
Indeed, Sins 2 is a great evolution rather than a revolution.
And mods will make this great game fantastic.
Oooof homeworld 3... too soon
Looks like they nerfed superweapon range a lot. Back in Sins 1 you could hit other star systems with them and pelt them constantly. Glad to see the Coronata is coming back too.
Yeah, although with the mechanic of planets moving I think it might be a fun meme strategy to create the superweapons on planets that are going to be pushed into enemy territory later on. Be intriguing to see if that could function as an effective "shock attack" method, but the timing would have to be relatively spot on.
No one has confirmed or denied that advent is the final faction that will be in sins 2. There have been hints that with expansion/ DLC, the faction that the vasari are running from may show up.
Great overview of what we are looking towards with sins 2
you're dang right i'm gonna check it out. i've been waiting for this game since it was announced. and i'm looking forward to the mods that come out in the future for it.
Very excited for it. Very!
CA has been kicking @$$ on Warhammer 3 updates lately and I've been really enjoying my various Immortal Empires campaigns.
But that comes to a stop on August 15th. This will have ALL my attention for months and months. So excited!
Playing something else while waiting for the next dlc. This will do the trick, loved the first and i might try to get into multiplayer.
God I love the Coronata Titan. Fave titan and looks absolutely gorgeous
Really looking forward to this game.
I am also really looking forward to when your Star Wars mod comes out for it too.
so much looking forword to play this game already and to see what mods will be there
A big fan of Sins 1 so will be checking Sins 2 out once the mods start hitting the scene. Never been a fan of the base game, the mods are what draw me into RTS games.
The conversion canons are a pain to deal with in lategame when attacking the advent defensis. I unwisely tried to rush the enemy capital (broke through border defense planet and then got in). When I arrived I had an approx. 2k supply fleet vs 500 supply defense fleet plus defense. Nice, doable.
Problem: the damn canons from surrounding planets and defense ships converted half of my fleet...
So, back to the drawing board and attacking each other planet with smaller raiding fleets to destroy those damn canons and not feeding too much supply to the AI.
yes and i hope my compy can handle it!
Cant wait was a big fan of the original.
I have nothing against AI art when it's trained on their own assets and used by their own artists. I think the art looks great for the most part as well. Ironclad is a small, basically indie, developer that consists of like 5 people. And Stardock is a small publisher as well. There is no scenario where the sequel to a cult classic RTS would have a hundred million dollars in the budget and dozens of full-time artists. And as a player, I MUCH prefer having ethically-used AI to help generate art, to having no art at all.
And if EA, Amazon, and other big corporations want to attempt to use AI to replace real people, that isn't going to work for them. AI is a tool that can assist subject matter experts, not replace them. And given that StarClad has been very open about their use of AI being just that, a tool for their artists, I have zero issues with it.
"Trained on our own assets" tends to mean additional training on top of a base AI model to match a specific style or for text, subset of behaviours. For example, in GalCiv IV AlienGPT is specifically trained on their own input, but the baseline model is still what had been done by Open AI.
I am aware they are a small company, but I think there's still a lot you can do with a limited team, even if it means you don't get the hundreds of full portraits for research. In my honest opinion, the portraits being used for the research are somewhat less readable than more simple icons would be, but I also don't think the generated assets there, despite their quantity, add to the lore or player experience the way a more limited set of more intentionally placed/designed pieces of art in different places may have. Especially when the images tend to make me think of different, more specific sci-fi franchises. I have a hard time putting any energy into thinking about what the backstory a picture is implying when I know it was AI generated and is highly reminicent of HAL9000- I don't know what is intentional and of the setting there. I just kind of tune it out as background noise istead. And I'll just say I have less faith that the presence of AI in larger companies would be less successful in being deployed than in smaller ones.
Like, simple though they may be I find the Sins 1 icon art to usually be a bit easier to parse when it comes to research because it's more directly linked to function. And on the admittedly more rare occasions when I see more full art in the game I pay more attention to it because I feel like there's a higher chance it can actually tell me about the setting.
I totally agree with the research Icons, they add very little aesthetically and some are quite unintuitive and difficult to parse. I will also say the trade and unity windows looked very bloated by the oversized, very obviously AI art. Amazing that the tooltip on the trade icon provided so much more information than whatever the trade window was trying to convey.
The problem is the art is hideous it is extremely off putting
Problem is, a model trained on your own assets doesn't mean you developed the model in-house. What that likely means, is they got an already present build of a current model, and told it to make stuff that looks like their training data. As you said, they're a small indie company that wouldn't have the assets to develop an in-house machine learning model that outputs anything of decent quality.
In this regard, they're likely using a commercial model of some kind, none of which tend to account for what ends up in their training data, who it was harvested from, who curated the model (which is often horrendously underpaid outsourced workers to nations with labour laws that are spotty at best). I mean, maybe you find that ethical, I wouldn't know your criteria, but I don't.
And thing is, outdated as it is, Sins 1's artwork isn't bad. If you absolutely can't afford it right now, why not use what artwork you already have made, and replace it later when the product is released?
Yeah, I'll definitely check it out when it releases. Didn't play the first entry, but I really like how the game looks like.
Im sold.
Seems cool!
There's nothing wrong with using better tools to produce content.
Thrawn's Revenge 3 when 😱
It's out? It's called 3.0, with 3.4 being the current version now if you are talking about a third mod on this game being Thrawn's Revenge 3 then.... maybe?
@@StarBornMichael It's a joke bc Ascendancy was originally called Thrawn's Revenge II
@xKiwiNova I know that I was just laying other people kind of get that because many comments would be like that. Honestly this is probably going to be an ascendancy two mod
Victory...is at hand...for the Unity.
You wouldn't happen to know if the decision to use AI generated assets made by Stardock or by Ironclad would you?
Is the Vasari Phase Resonance actually engaging? It's hard to look at the Advent's Unity and not be a bit jealous of it over just adding pure stat buffs.
Awesome just been playing battle star Galactica on sins... will you need to buy the disks as well as your steam account..will they be doing mods on this sins big fan the admiral Chris
Sorry Helldivers 2 but step aside for the best Game of the Year!
It's good, but It's not that good.
@@garwynrosser8907 It isn't even out yet. Unless you mean Helldivers, which is a pretty mid (but fun) co-op game.
Space Marine 2 will be taking that, but this is def the best RTS in years and i cant wait for tommorow when its out
If we move beyond the ethical concerns from the inclusion of Ai generated art, altered or otherwise, there's the matter that the generated art loses the "intent" of the artist.
We lose texture, style, it all just becomes noise that can be ignored, and frankly it makes things feel cheap.
I hope if this game is successful, and I want it to succeed, the art can get another pass.
Stasis: Bone Totem was indie and they removed the ai content post-launch, ideally the same can happen here.
I guess it depends on how they use the AI. There is a difference between a kid spinning out images in a minute, and a professional artist using AI as a tool
Yup. All art is a form of communication. When you remove the person behind the process, you remove the thought, intent, idea, and expressed experience. It just becomes 'soulless' in a sense, like something rolled off an assembly line. Granted, an artist will always appreciate subtleties in art consumers may not see, so to a consumer, it often makes little difference. I look at even the best AI images, and they just do not "work" as pictures as all the elements lack any purpose or "why" they're in the scene in the first place: lots of incongruity, just there without any reason or intent. At the very least, it's uninspiring.
So before i buy..the game just comes down inter planetary cannons?.
huge sins fan but at the end sins 2 is just a remake.
I like this video: simple explanation and a lot of actions in the background plus simple juicy spoilers and info.
It's ready, but will take several more years before it'll be rendered complete due to expansions and DLCs.
And even so, time will tell if it can equal or surpass the still amazing first game. The only good thing I can say is that this sequel should not be one worth fanon discontinuity treatment.
If its under $60$ I`m buying it day 1.
$39.99
lets goo
8:00 markets dont care 😂.
Starsector don't use the artwork from the fans? I mean, the Devs of Stardock can ask if the community can make some artwork or use the old artwork, right? I'm sad for use IA because they lost some of the beauty of the old game
Long have I waited
Can you explain more in detail what the Vasari bonus is? It sounds like its the most basic and lame uniqueness of the 3 factions. Advent get cool abilities on cooldown. TEC get trade bonuses, and Vasari get some basic stat points?
The Resonance points aren't the most interesting on their own (though the mechanics may have changed since I last played them), but their stuff with the phase gates is more interesting
Correct, resonance yields stat boosts but there are some interesting choices in powering it up. We are looking at a version that would give the player more levers to push and pull to make the effects themselves more interesting like TEC and Advent. It will likely be after Steam release. Now that being said, in terms of power, some feel the Vasari's system is the most powerful especially once it gets they get enough resonance to juice their speed (designed to emphasize their racial trait of mobility).
I'm no expert but I know that the Vasari starbase (huge defense structure) can move and teleport between gravity wells, which is unique. Vasari can also make it so one of their capital ships act as their home world. Meaning that if you lose your main planet that doesn't mean a game over.
@@camscontent8174 That is pretty cool.
AI usage WILL continually increase. It's inevitable. We could maybe slow it down a little but it won't stop. Need to find other ways for humans to be both creative and useful, and that's something humans are pretty good at so I'm not all that worried.
So no new faction 😢
Yeah, the AI art is really hideous unfortunately. Even ignoring the ethical issues which may exist, it ends up looking extremely generic, muddled and amateur.
Doesnt look muddled nor amateur. Definitely looks ai made. A smaller dev team saving money using ai art is the best case scenario and some of the ai images look astoundingly better than human made art for fraction of the development cost.
Well its not bad game but they still did not add campaning and its 2nd game
Am I really the only one who does not really care if the art is generated by AI or not? Could not care less how much imput a real human has, all I care about is "is it good, do I like it?!".
Yeah i agree who cares. It's like boycotting the automobile because your concerned for the horse and cart industry
I agree. Sounds like some people are just looking for reasons to cry and be angry to something about
@@scott8657 Its more like boycotting the automobile industry because they use automation to build cars.
The automobile analogy is flawed. Game creation involves art and artists. People who creatively design and produce imaginative things. The automation in the plant and manufacture isn’t creative at all. It solves problems and is accurate and excellent for repetitive tasks.
Artists who work on games are talented people who breathe life and character into the work. The concern is the more you push those people out, the less original and imaginative the product is. Generative AI is not original. It “creates” based on only what has come before. It can only create based on what real people have already come up with. It’s therefore inherently derivative.
Saying you don’t care at all as long as the game is good is a very shortsighted and limited perspective to have on something this fundamental and likely to massively impact the industry going forward.
@@stephenwakeman3074I don't see how it does not apply, you automate the process in a plant or in creating art. if a machine is able to do both GOOD its irrelevant to the end consumer, US, how its done.
Yes, as long as the end result is good, I don't care how its achieved, when its not longer good, its when I care and I vote with my wallet.
PS. Trust me, this is just the beginning, the AI is going to get far better at making new art then real life humans, this is a 100% guarantee. Hell, eventually AI is going to be better at anything and everything humans do, you can't fight it, you can, for sure, you will fail in the end.
Is the AI Art bad or noticeable in any way? If not then it wouldn't matter, would it?
Aside from the ethical and industry concerns, I do not think the AI art is particularly good on its own, nor that it adds to the setting. It's very clearly derivative, as even though it's trained on their own art, the base model is still there and it melds into a bunch of background noise. It can be hard to tell what research is for in many cases, for example, because they're small icons with very busy pictures. I do not think the game or worldbuilding has benefited from its presence.
5:54 i wish weapons could/would miss or modders can mod that in the game, looks kinda weird when every shot hits perfectly.
Also destroyable hardpoints would be great.
Some small gripes i have with the game, other than that Sins 2 seems to be an absolute banger for every RTS gamer, especially after so many bad RTS games in the past years.
Homeworld 3 Like faster Dead
So about the AI art just to let you know this was confirmed by Mr Craig Frasier who is head of the art department for the game, and he has literally said that the artist used AI to make the art, so no artist was replaced when using the AI they utilize the AI to help them just letting you know
It's not as simple as whether or not a specific existing artist was fired and replaced directly with AI. Would the scope of game have warranted the hiring of another UI artist if not for the use of the AI? I don't think that's as simple, and in an industry where layoffs are common and where devs very much still need to work (because capitalism), that can prevent the return of jobs in the future.
@@CoreyLoses No. We would have used simple icons like the original. Instead we felt it would enrich the players experience by using our existing assets to generate beautiful AI assisted paintings that open up more lore from the SOASE world. We treat AI as an artist tool, like any other. If there is any tool that can improve our content and provide a better experience, we're open to exploring it.
@@craigfraser1048 then have human artists create the beautiful paintings themselves.
@@Tuskin38 do you know how many conveniences you use today that replaced a manual job at some point in the past? Unless you're willing to live like a Eighteenth Century settler, focus on building your own business and hiring all the artists you want instead of telling other people how to do their job.
@@craigfraser1048 fact Mr Craig
The only A.I. content in the game would be character posters, all the models were made by some incredibly talented people and some of them are former modders
No. Icons. Backgrounds. Menu walls. Tech tree tooltip art.
@@stephenwakeman3074 Yeah, the Tech Tree popups really scream AI, same with the Tech Tree backgrounds... Shame, because original game had really cool artstyle.
Oh, it was a epic exclusive. Thats a shame.
full release is steam
The early access was epic exclusive
I don’t really understand your point of AI. It’s just another tool that needs to be in a professional’s toolbox. I don’t have direct experience with art, but in my profession (let’s call it public health), it does not and will not replace any jobs directly. Basically every innovation ‘costs’ jobs (we’d all be farmhands otherwise), but these open up other opportunities or just improve whatever jobs there are - I saw Craig posted here that they would’ve gone with simpler art otherwise.
As you say, not going to convince anyone with such a video and thus not with this comment, but felt the need to type it out anyways.
It is not simply speculation that game dev's interest in AI is a way to reduce labour costs in an industry which already quite unfriendly to labiur. I will respond to this with the same thing I just responded to Craig with-
While what budget you have may impact whether your option is simpler icons or something like this, knowing the tool is available will often impact what budget is made available- would a publisher or other source of funding agree to fund an additional UI art position to handle that kind of thing in the first place knowing the AI tools are an alternative, even if expected revenue makes it viable? I don't know that that is the case, and information from many studios seems increasingly to be "no." So while I am of course sympathetic to wanting to use every tool available to improve the game, I can't help but feel like the choice being made by the developers is already shaped by that context pushing towards AI use. To put it another way, if Sins 2 is as successful as I hope it would be, leading to more content being developed, would that lead to more funding for additional artists or would the decision of most studios be to retain the cheaper AI generation and continue to expand its use? It feels like without addressing the underlying industry issues of labour protection before tackling what AI use should look like we're just heading into a race to the bottom.
AI really isn't just another tool. That argument for it is often missing the point of why it's being developed in the way it currently is. It Will replace jobs and devalue jobs. The Cotton Jig was supposed to end slavery, it made it arguably worse... History when it comes to "tools" like this means that human value gets replaced almost always, and while that can be good for monotonous applications like financing, it will more likely be used to cheapen art. AI's strength is in pattern recognition, and I am excited about the healthcare implications of the technology. Its purpose in our current society is to replace humans and increase profits, though...
Ignoring the ethical concerns of stolen sampling and looking at the deeper implications to the planet, Chat GBT costs the equivalent of 33,000 homes yearly power use per day just to run. That's unsustainable energy use, and it is only going to get worse.
Art isn't something that should be a prompt. Watching Shadeversity claim he is an artist because of his "artists eye" while BSing his use of AI is all you need to understand how people will view their own use of a tool that does all the work for them. Watch as Lawyers just pump your defense into an AI tool. Watch as Authors just ask the AI to write the book for them. Eventually there will be an influx of so much crap that you can't find anything good. Eventually, there will be so much information out there that you will never know the truth of what is happening in the world.
AI is a very slippery slope, and we can't even begin to understand the deeper implications of using these "tools" and how easy it will be to ignore or not even notice the people hurt by it. For all the "good" it does, the way our world works currently makes me a deeply cynical and pessimistic person as to the end result of what it will actually do. People already don't care enough about others. AI won't make that better, it will make that magnified. Because that's how we can see it currently being implemented.
@@CoreyLoses So people who do work at too high a price or too low a quality get outcompeted. I don't see the issue.
Subscribed to CoreyLoses for 64 months with a current streak of 19 month. Next Sub Anniversary on Sep 6 (in 31 days)
Huge shame they used AI art. Was actually looking forward to the game too. As a game developer I do understand their concerns about using it as a "tool" to support their existing artists (I don't necessarily agree, but I see the train of thought.) but I think AI is just artistically soulless and morally bankrupt.
I guess if the game ever goes into Epic's weekly free game roster I'll pick it up but I don't feel comfortable paying money for a game they couldn't even be bothered to put their full effort into.
I think your reaction to AI generated content will be sounding a bit old fashioned even a few years from now,im fairly certain most triple A game companies are already familiar making games with this AI software.
It will be more common but being more common won't make it good.
Well... yeah, you're right about one thing, Corey, I'm pretty decided on the matter of machine learning tools for generative purposes, namely that I'm skipping. Even trained in-house, I highly doubt the underlying model was made in house.
Most popular models of machine learning tools are not only trained on bulk data they do not have permission to process, but are often also curated by outsourced labour with sweatshop-like conditions.
That's not to mention the already labour-hostile video game market, which prefers to shut down studios or lay off hundreds for callous cost-saving over human lives.
Generally speaking as well, machine learning assisted artwork just tends to come out the other end looking ultra damn generic and soulless, and is often a detriment over no artwork at all. Simple art or hell, even placeholders are preferable.
Real disappointing, too, since I was looking forward to this. At least Sins 1 is still there.
STEAM or no buy
The video is about the game coming out on Steam in a week.
i hated the full release from EPIC. In my opinion it's a SCAM. Very bad and my money is gone no refund....
Technically what we would consider the "full release" is still coming tomorrow to Epic as far as I know. I really don't like how they changed the labelling.
I definitely noticed the AI art and I don't like it. It feels soulless, especially compared to the good art from SINS .
Bring on the AI content.
You know how much work it is to build game assets, why would you hobble a developer by stopping them from using these amazing productivity-enhancing tools?
Because of the economic reasons I mentioned, the ethical (and resource) concerns with how the base models are trained, and because I do not think the assets are frankly worth all that much. Background art to add to the lore doesn't really get you anywhere when the lore is at best a curated collection of somewhat generic images.
@@CoreyLoses Images are no substitute for lore any more than item descriptions are. It's not a lore-focused game, this is a really a weird game to make this point on.
I used that example because that is literally what the art director said was one of the main reasons he decided to use the AI generated art, to give icons that help expand the lore.
I don’t, understand why people hate ai art so much I personally love ai art. And I am very happy that sins of a solar empire is using it. Ps you sound like a Communist Palestine supporter, you should think about changing your life and your opinions. Long live the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 and Israel 🇮🇱
You can't support the UK or any Western nation while also supporting Israel. Israel is literally trying to destroy the West funding the NGOs that are bringing in the people you no doubt have a problem with.
0 views in 50s. Bro fell off
this meme isn't funny
@@razorback8300 yeah this meme is kind of dead.
@@StarBornMichael fair