SLIP TEST - TORSEN vs HALDEX - Audi A4 B5 Quattro vs Audi A3 / S3 8L Quattro -
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 11. 2020
- Stacja Kontroli Trakcji - join us on Facebook: / stacjakontrolitrakcji
Follow us on Instagram: / 4x4.tests.on.rollers
Test on rollers:
Audi A4 B5 1.8T MT Quattro (1999)
vs
Audi S3 8L 1.8T MT Quattro (2000)
#duszaniespokojna #torsen #haldex - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Not related to the video but...i was looking at all my subscribed channels and it is very sad that you guys have only almost 30k subscribers... As you do something that no other channel is doing. But still... It is always a pleasure to watch your videos :) keep up the good work!
We may not have a lot of subscribers but the ones we have are the best in the world 😉
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers we try
B5 wagon has a beautiful design.
Where ?
@@BoraDusiciel what?
🤮
XDDDDD
Ive been waiting for this for a while now. Thank you for great content!
Haldex is electronic and at some point will fail (pump breaks) making car fwd. At that time Torsen (being completely mechanic) A4 pulls the Haldex A3 to the garage, even if the hill is steep and slippery. That reminds me, living in Finland, ya all 4wd fanatics, please believe me when I say that during winter time (=snow and ice), tires actually are more important than 4wd system. In my opinion tires are the most important winter driving safety equipment, then come ESP and ABS and then comes good lights (wide and long pattern).
Just niin
Kyllä
Oikein!
If you change the oil in Haldex every 30000km nothing will break. Problem is when you don't service it regularly. Oil is getting grey and thick and the pump cannot work anymore. Round the pump where it sucks is a filter net that will get stuck.
I was about to applause when S3 made it in the very end )
Me too then he stalled out
Not bad for systems that are 20 years old. The newer systems are not really that much better. Have you done any tests that have mechanical limited slip systems rather than the electronic torque allocation systems?
Thank you guys very much
Thanks again!
Na to czekałem od dawna widać starsze generacje napędu quattro radzą sobie najlepiej teraz czekam na test audi 200quattro 👍👍
Nie tak do końca radzą sobie lepiej....
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Dokładnie tak. Czekałem na test Audi A4 B5 Quattro (sam takie posiadam) i jak do tej pory wydawało mi się że Torsen w połączeniu z EDC (czy jakoś tak) jest jednym z lepszych rozwiązań. Szczególnie w porównaniu z Haldexem. A tutaj taka niespodzianka,... nie to, żebym narzekał, bo jak na tamte czasy, to był bardzo dobry napęd. Ale jako zwolennik Torsena, jestem zaskoczony.
Chcąc w niedalekiej przyszłości zmienić auto (brakuje mi prześwitu, szkoda misek olejowych), chętnie zobaczył bym na rolkach Hondę CR-V 1gen., Volvo XC70 2gen (345 bo Hyundai Santa Fe 1gen, już był).
Dzięki za film i pozdrawiam.
@@adamjanisiak3119 Niestety CR-V pierwszej generacji nie było, ale była HR-V z takim samym układem napędowym.
Volvo XC70 niestety też nie było, też jestem ciekaw, jak w tamtych latach ten układ był zestrojony. Pozdrawiam!
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Tak, rzeczywiście był test HR‐Vki, musiałem go przeoczyć. Dzięki.
P.S. Fajnie byłoby też zobaczyć na rolkach Mercedesa MLa W163.
Jeszcze raz pozdrawiam.
Przetrzyj oczy i obejrzyj ponownie 😆
Quite cool the see how an earlier Haldex was still delivering so much torque to a single rear wheel (almost spnning in the end, the other wheel clamped by ABS). I still reckon you better doing it shortly or the Haldex would enter protection mode or boil the fluid and burn the clutches.
If you need to have that kind of split traction continually there's no option other than a proper 4 wheel drive.
I've been driving and drifting on snow several hours with a 1st gen A3 quattro with haldex and never burnt or boiled anything.
@@AlbertArrabal Well... the Audi Q3 from personal experince can do that for a matter of minutes... as I could smell the sweet scent of the hydraulic oil boiling over. I wouldn't trust an Haldex car to last very long under heavy traction repartition load.
@@m80116 I’ve had that experience with a Q3 too. But not with a TT from the same era. In snowy conditions both. So it might depend on the car. But early ones are rock solid.
I have 2002 A3 1.8T Quattro thanks for the video
1999 A4 B5 1.8T Quattro
👍
You guys should Test the 2001 B5 a4. it has the Torsen w/ ESP
We will if we find it.
Kolego oglądałem już wszystkie twoje testy i powiesz mi jak twoim zdaniem jaki napęd sprawuje się w tym teście najlepiej
Też chyba do końca nie można mylić z prawdziwym terenem np śniegiem ?
Zgadza się, rolki są bazowym testem napędu i trzeba wiedzieć, jak interpretować wyniki - w zależności od rodzaju napędu, jego przeznaczenia itd. Nie chodzi o to, żeby jak najszybciej zjechać z rolek, trzeba obserwować, jak samochód to robi - w niektórych przypadkach ma właśnie dłużej mielić kołami, np. w trybach do jazdy po głębokim śniegu.
Na rolkach najlepiej sobie radzą - pod względem łatwości zjechania z rolek - samochody, które mają blokady dyferencjałów (Land Rover Discovery, VW T3).
For handling wich will have better potential in turns and things like that. We know for fact that rally cars used longitudinal mounted enegines witch makes it to the torsen base quattro, know i myself am a onwer of a mk4 gti really like it its handling but driven a passat b5 fwd and a 4 motion torsen b5.5. Im looking forward to getting a b5 a4 1.8t and have some mods, but still wonder if an s3 would be more my thing, i really liked how a car with a longitudinal enegine feals grouned and low centered but im woried about angles and shit i drive my car extream i love performance. Can you give me a tip of the pros and cons and wich will shaw i go with.
Torsen should be your thing. However check what you can do with haldex controllers (like HPA), the roots of haldex comes actually from rallies.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thank you
Can you plase make this test with a 1999-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Quadra drive transfer box???!! I would be sooo happy! It would be interesting to see the jeep vs suv:s of same year.
I will if I find one 🙂
Haldex doing surprisingly well here
The difference is really the ABS/Traction control improvements. Haldex is newer and more versatile but if you disconnect the ABS module the Torsen does a better job. Kind of an apple to oranges comparison here.
It is the reaction time torsen is quicker
A4 B5 torsen is gen 2 with EDL system working only on rear wheels, so haldex is better in this situation with ESP working on all wheels. But we can clearly see A3 ESP error on this test. It should easly push car from 3 rollers with grip on one rear wheel. A4 on 3 rollers and 1 rear tire grip looks embarasing. And Its not hard to achieve this conditions on real life and get stuck. A4 with torsen only after 2005. Haldex can be easly moded so you can put it ON on demand and make real 4WD for certain amount of time.
@@Umrao1989 Test shows that EDL is working on both axles in A4 B5.
@@Umrao1989 yes you definitly can get stuck with quattro. My girls 01 s4 6MT got stuck at bottom of driveway. One front one rear wheel spun, lol. No matter what I did I could not get it out. Had to dig it out. Hopefully rear LSD will make my 01 A4 awd better. For the price it better😂
@4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel
Ok...
Some wrongly translated page turned me into false point of thinking... EDL (manual turned) on rear axle was added to Torsen Gen 1 in few last years of production before torsen gen2 .
Here is a note about this:
Torsen IV gen 2 since 1995.
The manually locking rear differential from the earlier generations was replaced with a conventional open differential, with "Electronic Differential Lock" (EDL) (which, detects wheelspin via ABS road wheel speed sensors, and applies brakes to the one spinning wheel, thus transferring torque via open differential to the opposite wheel which has more traction). EDL works at speeds up to 80 km/h (50 mph) on all quattro models (on non-quattro models: up to 40 km/h (25 mph).
System type: Permanent four-wheel drive.
Torsen T-2 centre differential, 50:50 'default' split, automatically apportioning up to 75% of torque transfer to either front or rear axle.
Open rear differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4]
Open front differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4]
So that's right about EDL on four wheels in A4 B5
A jak to wypada na śniegu w zakręcie np? Który pojedzie lepiej i dlaczego? Mam porównanie do volvo v50 awd i tam każde mocniejsze wdepnięcie gazu natychmiast spina tylne koła i fajnie można bokami polatać. Jak to jest w audi? Zastanawiam się np nad a3 8p oraz a4 b7 2.0tfsi quattro bądź 3.2 quattro
mam a4 b6 Q i jezdzi sie swietnie w kazdych warunkach, tzn nie mialem zadnego problemu z sniegiem czy nawet podlodzeniem (nie mylic z czystym lodem bo tu nic nie pomoze). W górach w sezonie zimowym jestem kilkanascie razy w roku wiec duzo testowalem :)
Stare samochody z wmoare skutecznum 4x4 :)
wow, really good the s3
Ooo na to czekałem pojedynek dziadków 😁
s3 może i dziadek ale poerdolnięcie ma
@@c4n15lupu5 niebwiem czy zauważyłeś ale oba auta z testu mają 1.8T ;)
@@gabrys187 nie zauważyłem ! 🙂
@@gabrys187 ale jedno ma 150/180 w serii, a drugie min 215 jak dobrze pamiętam plus różnica masy 😉
It would be interesting to compare this to a B6 or B7 A4. 2002 and later added ESP. I wonder how much better it would be in this situation over purely mechanical plus ABS braking of the spinning wheel... EDL, I think the call it. Electronic Diff Lock. Which is funny because it doesn't lock the diff. It just applies some brakes to the spinning wheel to transfer power to the opposite wheel on the same axle. In my experience, it doesn't do a lot. It can't clamp hard enough to redirect enough power to be that useful.
Still, loved my B6 A4, and now my B7.
Here is B6: czcams.com/video/LXlfPf3XI8w/video.html
And here is B7: czcams.com/video/IPAHBUqsIJA/video.html
I have a 2001 B5 and it has ESP.
@@pawestanczyk1389Come for a test 🙂
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Skąd jesteście?
Mam 2 pytania
-Audi a4 b5 ma centralny z torsenem a przedni i tylny dyfer jest otwarty czy tez z torsenem?
-Jak to mozliwe ze zarowno a4 z torsenem a a3 z haldexem poradzi zjechac z rolek majac jedno pod przednim kolem i jedno pod tylnym (krzyzowo) skoro nie maja mechanicznej szpery LSD plytkowej bo przeciez torsen w takiej sytuacji dziala jak otwarty dyfer nie majac zadnego obciazenia. Mam na uwadze test lancera evo z ralliartem i wtedy evo nie poradzilo sobie bo mialo tylny z AYC czyli otwarty
1. Przedni i tylny otwarte.
2. EDL, czyli zjeżdżają dzięki interwencji układu hamulcowego.
Czyli zarówno A4 i s3 mają system edl? Możesz wyjaśnić jak on działa? Czy to coś podobnego do szpery mechanicznej?
@@Merom3k Tak, obydwa mają EDL, choć innych generacji. EDL, który występuje pod dziesiątkami nazw (najbardziej popularna to TC - traction control) to system, który wykorzystuje hamulce - hamuje koło, które się ślizga. Bardziej zaawansowane systemy (czyli w zasadzie wszystkie obecnie) regulują jednocześnie obroty silnika.
Between haldex (S38P) and 4wd (like evo9) we have anything?In your opinion which is better?
Well, awd system of Evo9 is a few galactics ahead of haldex :)
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I believe this too. but can you find a video to make a difference?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers last year it had snowed and we went to the mountains together. my friend got stuck on an uphill and i went up. and it seemed strange to us. :-/ same tires.225/40/18 pirelli p zero.
@@s38paudi78 On rollers Evo will be much worse. Its awd system is tuned for performance (like going sideways with a lot of slippage), it is not tuned for traction. I do not have the test of EvoIX but you can find EvoX on my channel.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thanks a lot my friend
Is that tell us that A4 has central and fron Torsen but lacks the rear Torsen or any LSD system? It looks like the 1st gen. of Haldex can cope with all sort "problems". I never liked it but I think I will need to revise my opinion.
A4 has center torsen. Front and rear differentials are open. So they are in S3. The rest is done by EDL.
Torsen is mechanical LSD. Current electronic systems are far better already but still when we speak for heavy loads mechanical stuff is better always.
To powiecie mi że w a4 silnik jest podłużnie i jest tak możliwość założenia torsena
Możliwość zastosowania torsena jest przy każdym ułożeniu silnika. Natomiast Audi stosuje go tylko w modelach z silnikami ułożonymi wzdłużenie, np. A4 B5.
Piotrków Tryb stare inter marche ? :D
S3 w Piotrkowie Trybunalskim, czy tam było inter marche to nie wiem 🙂
Haldex works well hey can u test cupra formentor 2.0 engine lest see fans of Torsen watch how done Haldex job never spin.
Czy gdzieś jest opisane, w jaki sposób interpretować te wyniki?
Za jakiś czas pojawi się pewnie materiał na ten temat. Póki co chętnie odpowiadamy na pytania 🙂
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Dzięki bardzo! Czekam z niecierpliwością.
@@beny7774 Prawdopodobnie w styczniu 🙂
Круто
Ktore jest na torsenie, a ktore na haldexie? Wyglada na to, ze a3 lepiej sobie poradziło. Moze to kwiesta wagi?
A4 torsen, S3 haldex. Różnica wynika raczej z tego, że haldex jest w stanie chwilowo zblokować osie ze sobą.
Scientificly meanless test IMO, A4 has 1.8t with a 150 or 180 hp engine while S3 has 220hp, if not ecu tuned at all, thus the torque is a variant additional to weight, wheelbase, size of the rims and a tire choice.
Test is not scientific but the reasons are very different from the ones that you listed. Actually none of these influence final results here.
Oo piotrków
Oo Tadeusz
Fajne autka. I fajna blondynka.
Czekam na A6 C4 Quattro
Jeśli masz A6 C4, to zapraszam na test. Póki co było tylko S6 C4: czcams.com/video/Yux9aeWqIt0/video.html
B5
Longitudinal engine (Torsen) Vs Transverse engine (Haldex)
They are diffrent. Torsen is RWD based system, Haldex is FWD based system. There is lot to say about these systems.
@@vanzemaljacludi3324 Haldex system adopts a hydraulic clutch that engages during particular torque condition only, allowing 90% to the anterio axle than 10% to the posterior one, being 100% FWD during normal condition. The reason why is the engine location that is transverse than longitudinal. Thus, the latter is the only engine position solution that allows Torsen sytem, that is a real 4WD and it is able to share torque to the anterior or the posterior axles undifferently, even if it is basically set 40% anterior and 60% usually.
Troche średnio tak bo ten od a4 trzymal go na nizszych obrotach
Raczej nie ten od A4, tylko EDL.
s3 ma 4 motion z golfa na haldexie
Cały układ trochę inaczej oprogramowany.
Now try it in a real outdoor situation....up a hill in snow or ice...torsen delivers more traction...haldex only gives traction to either front or rear /opposing where traction is lost...but if driving with a bit of aggression to cause wheels to spin it may deliver traction lik torsen...depends on driver and tyres...I think this method is not a suitable depiction upon real life scenario
A3 awd system with haldex is powering front wheels or front & rear wheels. Never only rear. Older haldex systems handle worse than torsen. Newest, well tuned haldex systems are competitive to torsen systems. The advntage of haldex is that it can lock itself, torsen can't. When it comes to real life scenario - here is video called "Tests on rollers vs REAL WORLD situations": czcams.com/video/926i0zqteXE/video.html
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I'd still lik to see both these cars in a outdoor scenario as both cars are capable but my opinion is the b5 quattro is very capable torsen system. Cheers for the info..nice work👍
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers in your opinion what vechicle has the best roller/traction capability?...in any offroad situation I'd choose a t3 syncro with lockers hands down ..but that's just me😁at this stage I've seen many videos but where a real life scenario comes into play is how big the drivers balls are on hill ascent and decent on snow or ice😂
@@whatsup8464 T3 test is here: czcams.com/video/xVT1iHfxWqI/video.html
It also had two different 4x4 systems, the part time version was better offroader than visco version.
As long as you don't need handling every car with lockers will be the best for such situations. It changes completely when you you need some handling...
Its a 8l not 8n and the a4 driver is given too much acceleration to soon.
That's what description says - 8L.
A4 driver did everything correct to make EDL work.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers its says 8n on the video and the a4 driver gave too much gas too soon I've owned both cars the a4 has better 4x4 than the s3.
@@damann2925 Oh yes, there is 8N on the thumb, I'll correct that. As I said before - A4 driver did everything correct to make EDL work. If there was less throttle - EDL would not work.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers i said too much too soon, watch the s3 1st he creeps before giving lots of gas the a4 floors it at go. My point being in a real mud or snow situation sometime less is more. Its like going up a wet hill if you floor is with bold tyres its going to spin the whole way up but if you build speed up appropriately the wheels won't spin.
@@damann2925 Firstly - there is no flooring in any roller test. Speed is max 25-30 km/h. Secondly - building the speed on rollers makes the attempt longer, not shorter. Thirdly - this is B5 without ESP, Audi docs clearly say that this generation of EDL needs high diff speed to work. In real mud or snow you may try to creep in order to not loose the traction. Here the traction is lost by the definition of the test.
WOW a3 ////
To tak głupio zapytam , który lepiej . I dlaczego.
W tym przypadku lepiej wypadło S3, poradziło sobie z każdym testem. Nie oznacza to jednak, że jego układ awd jest lepszy. A4 ma stały i sprawdzony napęd oparty o torsena, S3 ma pierwszą generację haldexa, która nie miała jeszcze tak zaawansowanego sterowania jak obecnie.
a czy nie wplywa to,ze a3 ma kola chyba r18,a a4 r15?
@@user-tk9cz8ue6z Ma, ale bardzo znikomy, odpowiedź znajdziesz w szóstej minucie tego filmu: czcams.com/video/NVkyZJlox4Y/video.html
Widać haldex z S3 trochę lepiej sobie radzi
Po czym to stwierdziłeś bo ja tego nie widzę.
@@karolchabowski5850 s3 dużo szybciej zjeżdża z rolek
Audi 80 b4 quattro video
If we only find it...
Ładnie sobie poradził haldex, tylko coś mu tam zagrzechotalo przy zjeździe z rolek🤔
To rolki zagrzechotały, nie samochód 🙂
eu am a4
First
Respect
Bez sensu te porównania jak w obu autach ten sam system.
Nie jest ten sam, nie jest nawet podobny, masz to napisane dużymi literami w tytule.
Ależ zajechana a3...
Skąd taki wniosek?
Praca silnika. Dla pana/pani to normalne odgłosy schodzenia z obrotów?
@@marcinjedrzejczak1527 To rolki, nie silnik.
Oby
@@marcinjedrzejczak1527 Ten sam dźwięk można usłyszeć w innych testach.
This "rollers" activity is a kind of COMEDY, as in real conditions grip is NEVER zero, but hou just struggle to promote that garbage haldex, i can't see your reasons.. probably some sponsorization.
If i would recorded even half number of situation when i pull out of snow/ice some garbage haldex pseudo-awd on Dichiu roads (from village Moroieni to Pestera hotel).. with that "useless" torsen t2...BUT let people try and check on own time and money. Your luck is .. haldex owners VERY RARELY climb mountain roads covered by ice and snow, so.. they believe what you show them on.. rollers😂😂
Roller, especially under load isn't like zero traction. There's quite a lot of torque needed to spin the wheel when car is on roller. That's not even close to the wheel in the air what people usually compare.
When it comes to haldex - sponsorization? I wish! But I don't care about haldex, I don't have car with haldex and never ever had. And I wouldn't buy it, I prefer much more precise electromagnetic clutch-packs and I buy cars which use them. So you missed, your argument is nonsense.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers even those "more precise electromagnetic" ones (i hope you mean x-drive/4matic longitudinally), FAIL at intense use, as you can see on carwow (after few launches from stand still). The ONLY one which got a REAL (literally) center Differential is audi/torsen, system which never fail.. not even brutalized with 4 times more torque than stock/factory (of course, clutch upgraded if got manual transmission)!
@@napraznicul No, I don't mean 4Matic, I don't mean xDrive to (which isn't electromagnetic). For me, half of a million kilometers with electromagnetic couplings in various road conditions is more than enough to have an opinion. No problems for all season, day-to-day driving, ever. Torsen is great but it is a pensioner. GR Yaris cars, which are using electromagnetic couplings, during three days of track driving didn't get a single case of overheat. I'll see that by myself in April.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers very nice car GR, it's THE ONY new car which i would buy, but isn't a mass production car.. AND had NO center diff, but simulated one by multiplate clutches :)))
@@napraznicul That's what I wrote in previous comment. It has electromagnetic multiplate clutch-pack, solution I like the most.
A3 jest o wiele lepsze od tego syfu a4