Chain Tension Question
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- čas přidán 28. 10. 2017
- Andy asked me a chain related question - this is that.
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loving the rant about maintenance at the end. couldn't be more true
This is the correct explanation of chain tension that correctly factors in the pivot point / suspension element. Your rant at the end; dead-on.
I like the ramble at the end. Thanks for the knowledge sir.
9.40 - 10.15 fucken awesome. Your a ledgend. Love it!
Love the passion. Spot on.
Nice, speaking sense in a way folk can understand. Ty for sharing! :-)
Thank you for the information mate
that was a brilliant rant! well done.
Love that last rant!!
Hi, I just replaced the chain on my ninja, I had to slide the rear wheel all the way forward so it would have 1.5" slack on the chain. Is this normal for a new chain? Should I worry that my tire is so forward?
Hi mate. I own a bandit 1255cc.
The adjustment marks of the chain when set equal, the sprocket teeth then touches the chain to the inside side or are just beside it. But in order to make the sprocket sits centered inside the chain I had to not rely on the equal measurement of the tension markers on the swingarm!
What should I do!!!!
Should I keep the sprocket teeth centered inside the chain even though the chain adjustment marks are not even on both sides ? Or is it okay to make the sprocket teeth tilted to the inside of the chain and therefore the chain marks on the swing arm on both sides are somewhat similar?
Ok so what happens if you run a lot of sag for whatever reason; does the manufacturers recommended generic chain tension still work? Surely there is a better way to tension the chain, like having the chain tight when the center of the two sprockets are inline for example?
I'm having trouble with mine it's a 2001 zx6r every time I alter it on the paddock stand it always ends up too tight so I'm just going to try doing it on the kickstand. I think I'm suppose to have weight on the back to pick up the slack ?
Any advice would be appreciated thanks
New tyres feel awesome. Been wanting to change them for a long time - but they were still road legal.
Well explained. I preser a tight chain only time I err on the looser side or even add a few extra mil of slack is on track to avoid lockout.
That is ok if you dont care about your counter shaft bearing .I have seen a counter shaft break the engine cases wth to tight a chain. Chains are cheap compared to transmissions . I keep mine on the loose side and chek often .
Only a doughnut would do it that tight.
100% agree with the rant👍
Are chain tensioners anygood and help?
How do you test a triplex primary chain to see whether it needs replacement? All help appreciated 👀
Just realised from this it actually makes a difference if you have a bike on its own centre stand versus a paddock stand on the swing arms, the alignment of the sprockets will be different and therefore skew the tensioning.
thank you
Most of the motocross bikes I had have coaxial swing arm and front sprocket. Conversely, I've seen some that are getting on for 200mm apart, some chopper thing. Looked great at first glance, then stuff popped out as being a disaster waiting to happen.
I replaced my chain with a brand new chain and sprocket kit and the tick marks are equal on both sides.BUT my chain is on the loose side and the reading is not marking on the “new chain” or blue mark. It’s reading near the “replace chain” mark. WHY? It’s a brand new kit. Please help.
Thanks
Coolant giving more horsepower=Matt has a minor stroke
The best would be the sprocket sitting at the pivot point of the swingarm. I think there are a few CanAm crossbikes working this way.
Lesson of the day,, buy a workshop manual for your particualr bike an read how to use basic maintenance
Unless you have a bike which has the front sprocket inline with the pivot like a BMW G450X.
when adjusting the chain slack, is it right to pull the chain up (measure) and down (measure) or just up?
Either
Either? The two methods measure significantly different... Dave Moss says you should lift the chain gently until the chain above the swing arm starts to move and use that distance as your measurement.
Read the manual... please explain why they would be different. And dave moss is an idiot. He thinks brake fluid should be changed every 40 days and that chain tight spots are because the chain has stretched unevenly lol
@@HaggisPower pull it tight, as when the chain is actually driven, obvious really....if Dave Moss suggests gently he is mistaken.
As in the photo for the video it shows the tension to be measured at **mm of movement below and above the chain line. Why then when you see videos of chain tension adjustment do they only ever push the chain up from the bottom and never pull it down below the chain line?
Gravity does it for you. The chain line is a perfect straight line between the sprockets. The weight of the chain pulls it near enough to the bottom of it's travel.
I dont agree, you can get at around 5mm or more pulling the chain down at the midpoint.
The ultimate best final check to do with chain slack is to make sure it isn't tight at ride height. Too many chains are adjusted With the bike on it's center stand and then not checked with riders weight on the bike. The average chain will get slightly tighter, because of the geometry of the frame/swing arm, when the bike is on the ground with the rider on it. Also move the bike to check for tight spots in the chain.
So does the chain get tighter or looser when you sit on your motorcycle?
It depends where the tight spot is. On dirtbikes it can vary a lot. For nearly every road bike the chain will get tighter, it depends how heavy you are. Sometimes it goes tight then slacks off again as you add more weight.
Tighter
Passion!
I’m here for the lovely accent 😂
So where do you check the slack, in the middle between both sprockets or in the middle between the rear sprocket and the swing arm pivot? He never told us.
Where do you get the spec number?
Read the manual!
Great video , this might sound like a silly question but I can't find much online about this , I ride with with a passenger all the time and we weigh about 290 lbs together on the bike and the manual states 20-30mm of chain slack , I set it at about 25mm but I don't want to put strain on my main bearing at the front sprocket so how much slack would you recommend, I was thinking between 25-30mm would be better or doesn't it matter as long as I'm in spec , I've also setup preload front and rear to compensate too , I'm set at the rear 10mm of static sag and about 30-35 mm of rider sag , does suspension travel affect the chain tension too 👍🏼
It doesn't make any difference. Why would you think it would?
@@dirtygarageguy I just thought with slightly more suspension travel it would tighten up and put stress on things , and my counter shaft sprocket seal went and i thought a tight chain twos up might of caused it. I replaced today and no more leaks now so that's good , shall I stick to around 25mm with nothing to worry about then 👍🏼
Chain slack is there because of the motion of the swing arm and where the 2 sprockets are in relation to each other. When the swing and sprockets are aligned, that is where the chain is tightest.
@@dirtygarageguy thanks for the reply, I'll stick to manual specs then 👌🏼
Hi matt, I have a 2002 zx7r, the owners manual says I should have 30-40mm of slack, however I can only get 25mm of slack before the chain hits the chain guide when am measuring in the centre of front and rear sprockets, how am I supposed to measure slack properly? I believe other zx7r owners have reported the same problem on forums, thanks john.
Is that total deflection?
@@dirtygarageguy it wasn't total deflection, I just measured from where the chain was resting pushing it upwards, I will measure total deflection when I get home, for future reference should I measure total deflection or just by pushing the chain upwards from its resting position when it's on its side stand??? Thanks matt.
I'm asking does that manual mean total deflection?
@@dirtygarageguy sorry matt what a tit I am, just checked the owners manual and it doesn't actually say total deflection but the illustration shows a line below and above the chain, obviously this means push the chain down to its lowest point then up to its highest point to measure slack???? I've just been pushing it straight up from its resting position, probably been running my chain slack for fuckin ages, will pay more attention to manuals in future, sorry for wasting your time but at least I've learnt something, cheers John.
On my bike I remove the shock (only takes a couple of minutes) and lift the rear wheel through its travel to find the tightest spot. I adjust the tension to that spot. I know this would not be practical on a road bike, but it works great on mine and know I will never be chain bound at any point in the suspension travel.
I have found the tightest spot by swingarm. Now adjust tension and chain will never pop.
can,t believe i havn,t thought about doing this,what a bloody good idea
So u are saying that the chain does get tightened when the wheel travels up. But the video owner does say the opposite. Who is right?
im amaized that no manufacturer make a sprocket in the pivit point of the swingarm and have a small chain from A to swingarm and another from swingarm to B. No more slack, and best of all no more chain adjustments!!
you can, but its cost - more on this later and glad you asked
BMW did in their G450X enduro. A countershaft sprocket that is mounted on the swingarm pivot.
You look badass Matt
Having the chain too tight damages the final drive (engine sprocket output) bearing alignment, causing it to move the gearbox main shaft out of alignment just enough to cause the high gear selector fork to ride up against the gear groove and rapidly wear away.
I've lost count of how many engines I've fixed with skewed final drive bearings and chewed up selector forks caused by an over tightened chain.
Symptoms of a worn away selector fork due to over tight chain??
Top gear won't stay in when throttle opened and then gradually deteriorating to top gear won't engage as selector fork wears away over about 20 to 30 miles following chain being over tightened. The only recourse is to limp home in lower gears avoiding attempting to engage top gear as there is a high risk of a gearbox / rear wheel lock up (an underwear change will be required if this happens at speed!!).
Gear selector forks and final drive bearings are cheap. Having to strip the engine down to replace parts is maximum hassle.
(If a bike won't engage or hold in low gears under load then the clutch end bearing on the primary shaft is worn out and has caused wearing away of the low gear selector fork).
Many years ago a slack chain nearly killed my brother, he had been out until early morning, would be rude not to jump the railway bridge... except the chain came off the sprocket in mid air..... landed with the back wheel locked up. The chain is a boring component of a bike, they get neglected at your peril though. A bit more important than self adhesive fake carbon fibre or LEDS...
I've seen so many people with massively floppy chain on my commute, pretty cringe because it's pretty dangerous like it's so slack it can skip it a tooth
Mine is pretty fucked right now,bought it like it and been meaning to do it
You forgot to mention few things. The first one is how the sprockets get fucked if you run worn out chain. Basically they get deformed because the distance between the pins is getting bigger, therefore the pitch of the sprockets do not match perfectly, so they deform in order to accommodate changes. Also all the forces from acceleration and engine braking add up as well and it all goes trough your sprocket teeth. Thats why its cheaper to replace your chain 3 times instead of purchasing new sprockets every time you replace your chain.
The second thing is anti-squat - thats how chain tension is correlating with the rear dampers. And how important is to have your rebound set correctly if you have good ones. Thats a topic for a whole video, so fuck it... it was worth mentioning tho :)
Anyway, awesome video as always !
By the way Im a mountain bike mechanic before everything and Im surprised how much of this shit correlates....
"You forgot to mention few things. The first one is how the sprockets get fucked if you run worn out chain."
- LOL that's a different video altogether....
"The second thing is anti-squat - thats how chain tension is basically assisting the sprung mass to compress the dampers."
For motorcycles there actually a lot more to it, swing arm geometry (which I'm sure is a similar topic to mountain bike) but also the torque produced by the rear wheel is far greater, and gyroscopic effects and moment of inertia etc....
Spot on....in a word..sort the metal before the plastics....
Too many stick bling on a rollin sack of shit....
WEGGYS MOTORCYCLES UK you know what they say, cant polish a shit , but you can rolling it in glitter and make it shine
All well said mate haha, loud exhaust, stickers and shit I'm gonna look good ffs, chain and tyers up the shit. So many people have told me oh it's better to have a loose chain then too tight, both are no good, but they rave on about perfomance with their back tyer almost square as a brick.
Ha, why you worried about the back brake when you said you never use it? In America the most important thing on a bike is to look cool. Ironically though you only look cool to other people who like the same kind of bikes. Sportbikes have to do wheelies and cruisers have to be loud. Touring bikes are weighed down more than a station wagon full of cream cheese and whatever else people buy at the wall store. Not a lot of people trying to buy a good all-around bike for a decent price.
In response to your statement at 3:46
I thought dirt bikes have more chain slacks b/c they have further suspension travel and if the chain was tighter it would break.
What I’m saying is if your chain was tightest in its resting position, why would you add any slack?
A chain is at its loosest at rest position and needs enough slack to account for the suspension.
Did you just answer your own question?
The Workshop well yeah but that’s because I already know the subject. For someone who didn’t know, I.e. the target audience, it could be confusing. I thought maybe you were trying to make a different point but worded it wrong
Do chains actually stretch, or technically is it just wear?
Marble Madness they wear at the pins and rollers. Overall length extends due to the wear between the inner of the roller and outer of the pin, they don't actually "stretch".
They stretch and wear. The areas of contact will wear, but put enough power into a chain and it'll stretch. Sometimes a chain will vary in pitch along its length due to uneven stretch. Running the chain in helps with both stretch and wear.
That is incorrect, your clutch will slip before you "stretch" the metal links of your chain. I stand by my statement please fact check me.
Yeah I've noticed "tight spots" in chains when rotating the rear wheel before. Like some sections of the chain are worn/stretched less than other sections. Which is odd considering it's all rotated the same amount of times
Marble Madness it has tight spots due to the roundness and centering of the sprocket not the chain.
It's all down to the power of marketing over engineering nous
Thanks mate, love your work as i've no doubt many others do as well. I know it's not a heck of a lot but to show my appreciation of your video reply to my email question and to help with your channel i've just signed up for the $20/mth Patreon pledge. Cheers !
Off topic but me and my bud were out riding today (dirtbiking) for shits and giggles I used a pice of pumpkin to clean my chain and holy frig worked great got all the big stuff off lol
I'm watching because the bad languages lol..love it!!
pulling callipers apart, looking forward to that one.Most of the power junkies you refer too don't have the skill to exploit the full potential of their engines anyhow ,I'm more in favour of weight saving as i feel the gains are much more beneficial .
I don't like going of the manufacturer chain slack spec. Its only good for one exact swing arm angle. Change anything that affects the stance of the bike and that spec is now useless. lets say you reduced the sag and you bike sits higher and the distance between both sprocket is less. In that case if you use the dealer spec your chain is now too tight and you could break something.
The only way I think is any good is to manually check it. Disconnect the rear suspension and then find the tightest sport (straight swing arm) adjust the tension accordingly. Then measure the chain slack at a known point. (like all the way down when the bike is on a stand and the wheel is off the ground) You now have the minimum chain slack spec that you can measure at a repeatable point.
But hey if you're bike is 100% stock with stock suspension setting, half a tank of petrol and sitting on perfectly level ground then yeah manufacturer spec all the way. But that doesn't work for me lol.
Nobody hinders you to do unnecessary BS. :)
having watched this vid .. i,ve just adjusted my "chain" ! :)
Ah the good old Cx500 chain LOL
do you want a set of worn sprockets and chain off a ducati 1198 m8 ?? 2011 model ?
You lose feck all power from a slack chain. Stick your bike on a stand with a slack chain and turn the back wheel to take up the slack. It takes very little effort. However the snatch you get with a slack chain puts extra stress on the transmission components and will accelerate wear. It also makes the bike handle like crap, especially at low speed.
Doesn't chain tension have an effect on friction resistance? And what's worse for chain wear? Too tight, or too loose causing chain slap?
too tight chain will stretch quickly and wears out bearings fast. loose chains takes out performance and increase fuel consumption
too tight is worse.
Spot on i see it all the time all the bling up with fucked chain shot tyres and bulging rubber brake lines
Has anyone had anything to do with ATK motorcycles A-Trac chain system,is it still available?
Chain stretch????? Don't you mean wear in the individual components resulting in the increase in chain length.
What does the word stretch mean?
Any noob is all about hp and nm. But as you mature. Its more interresting with good brakes. Nice suspension. Etc. An overall nice balanced handling bike. Id choose a 125 cc fun riding bike. Than a 1000cc that feels boring to ride.
8:30 If you can't stop at 150mph you won't be alive enough to forget anything :v
You sound as if you just ran from the police during your intro
This is two years too late and you’ll probably never respond but... my Dl1000 says on side stand adjust between 2and 3cm. But then when I sit on it the chain goes tight as fuck. So the straightest point between the two sprockets sure ain’t while it’s on its stand. Anyhow it confuses the hell outta me. I ended up going with 25mm when I’m sitting on it.
Thats pretty much correct
The Workshop hey man. Thanks for actually responding. I do a lot of dirt and shit roads. Swing arm is every conceivable angle and often the rear is completely off the ground. I worry about snapping or stretching the chain. Best keep it loose while loaded with my fat ass I figure. I look to your channel for a lot of advise. Thanks.
Wish this video was in english 😜
Remember too that if you ride in mud for example, it gets between the rollers and the sprocket. It is like dynamically increasing your sprocket size. (Hope i am making sense)
Always brakes first.
Buy a shafty, problem solved
If you really care about your bike, go look up Ronnie Mac's Tech Tips. This yank knows his shit.
Second 1st!
"Where the rubber meets the road"!!! Why is this a cliché? Because it's the IMPORTANT BIT. All the power in the world makes not a speck of fucking difference if you have a chain that slips or snaps or insufficient traction. Basic, basic rational information. I've never owned a bike, love moto GP and, for medical reasons, never will. Hope that makes sense 😉
Bout.
6th first!
1st last
First?
Ian Azbell that newschooler is slacking
The screaming at the start caused me to stop the video!
Oh you poor darling, make sure you leave a comment about your distress...
You must be joking. You talk too much.
Useless rant. I learned exactly nothing from this video.
Idiots don't learn.