Okay, at the risk of having things thrown at me, I have to share this... A Facebook correspondence of mine once described his trip to a New York City Delicatessen, where he was surprised to hear "Carmina Burana" playing in the background. I couldn't resist, so I responded... Oh, for TUNA! Almost nobody got it!
My favorite version is by Rafael Fr[ubeck de Burgos and the Philharmonia Orchestra (1966). It has the best "Dulcissime" and other Soprano arias sung by the best of all sopranos: Lucia Popp.
It pays not to delve too deeply into Carmina Burana. A religious friend of mine, and fellow chorister, made the mistake of reading the translation. Appalled by the lascivious lyrics, he refused to sing it with our choir and sought refuge in the orchestra, where the words are less of a problem. Excellent recommendations, by the way.
Everything old is new again. Fatalism, free sex, roaring drunks, gambling your very clothes, seancing a roast swan (an experience like that sounds like swan hell, not swan heaven, to me), and did we say fatalism -- what could possibly go wrong in the noggin? Enough others have performed this thing with everything from a full orchestra to two lone pianos that there is scarcely a need for performing more of it to get the idea, and it is a vivid, well arranged suite of music without doubt. Orff was right in sensing that it was going to thrill his Nazi patrons, though I have read some say it was a subtle attempt at protesting Nazi dogmatism. (However, I don't think that dignifying Nazis with an attribute of dogmatism is the right thing to do. They just did what felt strong at the time, and we can see it now in certain branches of modern politics, both saluting a vice and assailing it without caring about hypocrisy. Hey, that Abbot of Cockaigne can't be said not to have warned you what you'd become! Wafna the world, man.) If you're REALLY bent on doing C.B. to the max, do study the languages, at least their translations, if not the ability to understand the originals as you go. For ALL of it. Get the complete picture. Then make up your mind whether it's worth your soul. It may be an old saw, but God is worth mine... through C.B. I can get a glimpse of what getting as far away from God as possible looks like. Yes, one of the great masks of the devil is "fortune." Music is not itself a bad thing or a good thing. It is a neutral thing, a medium of expression that may be adapted to lofty or debased themes, selfless or egotistical, alike. As a musician of over half a century, I have seen both through my keyboards and my lyric pens, and some I regret and some I do not.
You're very welcome. That's how you get into community orchestras--BYOP (Bring Your Own Percussion). Have tam-tam, will travel! I also have my own sledge hammer and tree stump and cowbells for Mahler 6th.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have been looking for a recording of the once thought lost 18th century Concerto for Sledge Hammer, Cowbells, and Hollow Tree Stump now for years. The only one I can see mentioned is attributed to a PDQ Bach on Tinnitus Records; is it any good?
Congratulations on your new channel. We appreciate your insight, scholarship, and enthusiasm. Love your recommendations, though I'm going broke buying too many of them on disk (I'm old school in this regard--have to possess something physical to listen to.). For Carmina Burana enthusiasts, they may be interested into delving into some of the medieval sources for this music. A three volume, four disk set by Philip Pickett on L'oiseau-Lyre label and an older Studio der Fruhen Musik effort on Teldec are interesting. One can hear in the originals how Orff tinkered and used these sources in his 20th century effort (one example: "Tempus est iocundum" on Pickett's 1st disk).
Thank you for your kind remarks and recommendations. I have those other sets and find them very interesting as well. Your note makes me want to go back and listen again.
@@DavesClassicalGuide FYI: Studio der Fruhen Musik actually spent two semesters in residence in the '60s at Washington U. in St. Louis. my first experience with medieval music--what an ear opener! The tenor of this group, Willard Cobb, moved to St. Louis after the group broke up and spent a lot of years singing in local vocal organizations.
Ozawa also did one with Berlin Symphony Orchestra from 1989, but that's on Philips, not RCA, and 32 years isn't that "old" to me at least. Your BSO recording must be older.
Yes, the Ozawa/BSO is my favorite. Gets everything right. Has a vibrant presence. I have the Jochum and Blomstedt as well, but this early Ozawa one works the best for me.
As a native latin speaker, coming from ancient Rome itself (my English, igitur, may be far from perfect), I see a little incongruity in the way you say 'CarmIna Burana', with the I stressed, and then 'Catulli CArmina', with the A stressed; the latter is the correct stressing in the language of my (old) days. Of course I know these songs are very modern, as they were composed in what you call the 'Middle ages', but that should not have nothing to do with which the stressed syllable is. In other respects, I learn a lot with these videos, Mr. Hurwitz, and really enjoy them. So thank you very much!
Your three picks are my three picks as well: Runnicles, Blomstedt and Jochum. I can't say I know tons of recordings of "Carmina" and nor do I want to. I have a 'pirate' of Runnicles doing it with the Aspen Festival - or one of those other Rocky Mountain summer festivals - and it's quite excellent.
If you want Tam Tam (and perfectly in balance with the Gran Cassas upbeats), you should listen to the Chailly recording with the DSO. My favorite.. it's the transparency of the percussion section that makes it very special
The first recording I owned was when I was in college in the 70s. Tilson Thomas/Cleveland. I think this was around the time MTT was busted for cocaine -- I always thought that was why the performance is so revved up to the max. I imprinted on it that way, and still find it a blast. The CD audio quality is not as good as the vinyl though, by a substantial margin
I imprinted on the DG album my mother had. When I was on my own, I got the MTT when it came out, and it’s been my standard ever since. Just what music should be - thoroughly enjoyable.
Good that you mentioned Herbert Kegel. His Leipzig / East German recordings are hard to get, but well worth it. The recording fidelity is top-rate, and performance (IMO) is often as good as it gets ( such as with his Bruckner treatments).
check out the Carmina Burana live performance by Gustavo Dudamel on youtube, it's pretty much like the Jochum performance. Absolutely brilliant. Although nobody has yet reached the levels of Gundula Jannowitz, but it's an awesome performance non the less.
You didn't mention the recording by Rafael Frubeck de Burgos which is my favorite after listening to many versions. Lucia Popp is stellar in "Dulcissime" and de Burgos delivers a dramatic percussion crescendo at the end of the "O Fortuna" both at the beginning and at the end of the piece that no one else does. It's really a knockout, although it may not be in the score.
The only Carmina recording I would listen to, until I just wore it out. Everyone else just sounds like they're reading notes off a score. Popp & co. made cinema unroll before your eyes, of those very scenes. My model for evocative bass playing remains her three arias, especially "frutina."
I have a few recordings of Carmina and had no idea there were tam tams during 'O Fortuna' until I picked up a second-hand copy of the Jochum version, and that was enough to make it my go-to version. Another piece in which conductors always forget about the tam tams (or is it bad sound engineering?) is the climax at the end of the development section in the 1st movement of Mahler's 4th.
I actually like Ormandy’s recording with the Philadelphia. But I was in high school when I discovered it on vinyl, so I guess I will have to wait to the Ormandy Stereo Box to reevaluate it.
@@jgesselberty Those of us who remember the Ormandy Columbia lp of Catulli will recall their refusal to print a translation because of the often R to X rated lyrics.
Many composers was inspired by Les Noces, just listen to Three Village Scenes by Béla Bartók. Anyway. Carmina Burnana stands on it's own legs as one of the most loved and importent works in music history.
My favorites: Jochum, Blomstedt, Dorati, Tilson Thomas and ... Rattle-Berlin with very energetic tempos !! one of the few achievements of Rattle with Berlin that come out of the mediocrity by the way.
Hi, I fell in love with this piece from hearing O fortuna and then discovering the rest of it, my favourite CZcams recording to listen too was the 1994 last night of the BBC proms. It sounded beautiful and I don't know how many times I've listened to that version. Have you heard it, and if you have, is there anywhere I can get it in a better quality than CZcams?
I recall Jim Svejda’s description of Carmina Burana: “Music a gland would write if it could.”
Okay, at the risk of having things thrown at me, I have to share this...
A Facebook correspondence of mine once described his trip to a New York City Delicatessen, where he was surprised to hear "Carmina Burana" playing in the background. I couldn't resist, so I responded...
Oh, for TUNA!
Almost nobody got it!
Ouch!
Groan ..... ! :) :)
Who could resist? Your own internal chuckles inside yourself makes up for any groans here...
Ja, ja, ja! Hilarious!
My favorite version is by Rafael Fr[ubeck de Burgos and the Philharmonia Orchestra (1966). It has the best "Dulcissime" and other Soprano arias sung by the best of all sopranos: Lucia Popp.
It pays not to delve too deeply into Carmina Burana. A religious friend of mine, and fellow chorister, made the mistake of reading the translation. Appalled by the lascivious lyrics, he refused to sing it with our choir and sought refuge in the orchestra, where the words are less of a problem. Excellent recommendations, by the way.
Catulli Carmina is even more prurient! Thanks for commenting.
Everything old is new again. Fatalism, free sex, roaring drunks, gambling your very clothes, seancing a roast swan (an experience like that sounds like swan hell, not swan heaven, to me), and did we say fatalism -- what could possibly go wrong in the noggin? Enough others have performed this thing with everything from a full orchestra to two lone pianos that there is scarcely a need for performing more of it to get the idea, and it is a vivid, well arranged suite of music without doubt. Orff was right in sensing that it was going to thrill his Nazi patrons, though I have read some say it was a subtle attempt at protesting Nazi dogmatism. (However, I don't think that dignifying Nazis with an attribute of dogmatism is the right thing to do. They just did what felt strong at the time, and we can see it now in certain branches of modern politics, both saluting a vice and assailing it without caring about hypocrisy. Hey, that Abbot of Cockaigne can't be said not to have warned you what you'd become! Wafna the world, man.)
If you're REALLY bent on doing C.B. to the max, do study the languages, at least their translations, if not the ability to understand the originals as you go. For ALL of it. Get the complete picture. Then make up your mind whether it's worth your soul. It may be an old saw, but God is worth mine... through C.B. I can get a glimpse of what getting as far away from God as possible looks like. Yes, one of the great masks of the devil is "fortune."
Music is not itself a bad thing or a good thing. It is a neutral thing, a medium of expression that may be adapted to lofty or debased themes, selfless or egotistical, alike. As a musician of over half a century, I have seen both through my keyboards and my lyric pens, and some I regret and some I do not.
A guy with his own tam-tam. Respect!
Carmina Burana can be a real treat in concert. Thanks for featuring these recordings.
David
You're very welcome. That's how you get into community orchestras--BYOP (Bring Your Own Percussion). Have tam-tam, will travel! I also have my own sledge hammer and tree stump and cowbells for Mahler 6th.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Tree stump??
@@UlfilasNZ Sure. To bash with the hammer. Hollow, for greater resonance.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have been looking for a recording of the once thought lost 18th century Concerto for Sledge Hammer, Cowbells, and Hollow Tree Stump now for years. The only one I can see mentioned is attributed to a PDQ Bach on Tinnitus Records; is it any good?
My introduction to this work as a youngster was the Ormandy/Philadelphia LP. I have since gotten in on CD and still like to go back to it.
Congratulations on your new channel. We appreciate your insight, scholarship, and enthusiasm. Love your recommendations, though I'm going broke buying too many of them on disk (I'm old school in this regard--have to possess something physical to listen to.). For Carmina Burana enthusiasts, they may be interested into delving into some of the medieval sources for this music. A three volume, four disk set by Philip Pickett on L'oiseau-Lyre label and an older Studio der Fruhen Musik effort on Teldec are interesting. One can hear in the originals how Orff tinkered and used these sources in his 20th century effort (one example: "Tempus est iocundum" on Pickett's 1st disk).
Thank you for your kind remarks and recommendations. I have those other sets and find them very interesting as well. Your note makes me want to go back and listen again.
@@DavesClassicalGuide FYI: Studio der Fruhen Musik actually spent two semesters in residence in the '60s at Washington U. in St. Louis. my first experience with medieval music--what an ear opener! The tenor of this group, Willard Cobb, moved to St. Louis after the group broke up and spent a lot of years singing in local vocal organizations.
I always liked the Andre Previn recording!
Glad you mentioned Ozawa/BSO at the end. Outstanding soloists and.topnotch sound.
Ozawa also did one with Berlin Symphony Orchestra from 1989, but that's on Philips, not RCA, and 32 years isn't that "old" to me at least. Your BSO recording must be older.
Yes, the Ozawa/BSO is my favorite. Gets everything right. Has a vibrant presence. I have the Jochum and Blomstedt as well, but this early Ozawa one works the best for me.
@@billslocum9819 The BSO referred to here is the Boston Symphony Orchestra. From 1970.
Sir, you are so correct, also Carmina Burana is often played too fast, specially the court of love. Thank you for what you have given us.
As a native latin speaker, coming from ancient Rome itself (my English, igitur, may be far from perfect), I see a little incongruity in the way you say 'CarmIna Burana', with the I stressed, and then 'Catulli CArmina', with the A stressed; the latter is the correct stressing in the language of my (old) days. Of course I know these songs are very modern, as they were composed in what you call the 'Middle ages', but that should not have nothing to do with which the stressed syllable is. In other respects, I learn a lot with these videos, Mr. Hurwitz, and really enjoy them. So thank you very much!
Your three picks are my three picks as well: Runnicles, Blomstedt and Jochum. I can't say I know tons of recordings of "Carmina" and nor do I want to. I have a 'pirate' of Runnicles doing it with the Aspen Festival - or one of those other Rocky Mountain summer festivals - and it's quite excellent.
If you want Tam Tam (and perfectly in balance with the Gran Cassas upbeats), you should listen to the Chailly recording with the DSO. My favorite.. it's the transparency of the percussion section that makes it very special
Dutton-Vocalion just remastered and re-issued the SACD of the Tilson Thomas-Cleveland Carmina Burana. It sounds phenomenal!
The first recording I owned was when I was in college in the 70s. Tilson Thomas/Cleveland. I think this was around the time MTT was busted for cocaine -- I always thought that was why the performance is so revved up to the max. I imprinted on it that way, and still find it a blast. The CD audio quality is not as good as the vinyl though, by a substantial margin
Wow, that's a trip. I didn't know he used to use blow. But probably did keep him revved up. ;)
I imprinted on the DG album my mother had. When I was on my own, I got the MTT when it came out, and it’s been my standard ever since. Just what music should be - thoroughly enjoyable.
At the risk of some intra-ClassicsToday strife, I love what Immerseel has done with Carmina Burana. Zany! Perhaps it merits a review...
Good that you mentioned Herbert Kegel. His Leipzig / East German recordings are hard to get, but well worth it. The recording fidelity is top-rate, and performance (IMO) is often as good as it gets ( such as with his Bruckner treatments).
check out the Carmina Burana live performance by Gustavo Dudamel on youtube, it's pretty much like the Jochum performance.
Absolutely brilliant. Although nobody has yet reached the levels of Gundula Jannowitz, but it's an awesome performance non the less.
You didn't mention the recording by Rafael Frubeck de Burgos which is my favorite after listening to many versions. Lucia Popp is stellar in "Dulcissime" and de Burgos delivers a dramatic percussion crescendo at the end of the "O Fortuna" both at the beginning and at the end of the piece that no one else does. It's really a knockout, although it may not be in the score.
Well, if I had known it was your favorite, maybe I would have mentioned it.
The only Carmina recording I would listen to, until I just wore it out. Everyone else just sounds like they're reading notes off a score. Popp & co. made cinema unroll before your eyes, of those very scenes. My model for evocative bass playing remains her three arias, especially "frutina."
I have a few recordings of Carmina and had no idea there were tam tams during 'O Fortuna' until I picked up a second-hand copy of the Jochum version, and that was enough to make it my go-to version. Another piece in which conductors always forget about the tam tams (or is it bad sound engineering?) is the climax at the end of the development section in the 1st movement of Mahler's 4th.
Sigh. You are SO right. It's so frustrating.
Among older classic recordings, Reiner/CSO gets it right, so does Bernstein and NYPO (not his later Concertgebouw recording).
I actually like Ormandy’s recording with the Philadelphia. But I was in high school when I discovered it on vinyl, so I guess I will have to wait to the Ormandy Stereo Box to reevaluate it.
Harve Presnel was superb in this recording.
Ormandy also did, in my opinion, the best Catulli Carmina.
@@jgesselberty Those of us who remember the Ormandy Columbia lp of Catulli will recall their refusal to print a translation because of the often R to X rated lyrics.
Many composers was inspired by Les Noces, just listen to Three Village Scenes by Béla Bartók. Anyway. Carmina Burnana stands on it's own legs as one of the most loved and importent works in music history.
My favorites: Jochum, Blomstedt, Dorati, Tilson Thomas and ... Rattle-Berlin with very energetic tempos !! one of the few achievements of Rattle with Berlin that come out of the mediocrity by the way.
It was staged in Berlin an der Deutschen Oper and was great and you should wear the blue shirt more often. It looks great on you
Hi, I fell in love with this piece from hearing O fortuna and then discovering the rest of it, my favourite CZcams recording to listen too was the 1994 last night of the BBC proms. It sounded beautiful and I don't know how many times I've listened to that version. Have you heard it, and if you have, is there anywhere I can get it in a better quality than CZcams?
I have not heard it. I stand by my recommendations in the video and on classicstoday.com.
There is very good recording, in my view, on BIS, with rather small forces, a sort of chamber version.
It's the version for 2 pianos and percussion he made for school forces.
There there's THIS bit of trashy tackiness - but it does have a gong (eventually). czcams.com/video/EJC-_j3SnXk/video.html
I left a comment, but it seems to have been deleted. Here's hoping someone there at CZcams will tell me what I said that was wrong ??????