@@Buster_Scruggs well the thing about Hawke is his CO powers are insanely expensive and you cant garantee a devestating push when you pop it. Mostly because cos can be constantly eating you with thier Cops or Scops. As for drake you get that shit faster and you get more pushes
Mangs every single game: I normally dont advocate healing but only in this specific situation and in no other situation seen in any other match would I heal my unit.
Basically the idea I get from his standard is to not go out of your way to heal and don't just sit a unit there just to heal, but of you're holding a line or pulling a unit back anyway then healing can be of benefit.
The problem is just healing for no reason, or the dreaded portlocked lander or battleship. If there is a specific reason for it, fine, the problem is defaulting to healing when a unit is injured, or ignoring the potential of damaged units. Like, a good case is benchmarking your healing to survive an engagement with a specific unit, like getting a Recon up to guaranteed survive an attack from a full health Recon or Tank, if it's close. Kindle/Candy is also sort if a weird case, because she wants to stick to cities even more than most, meaning she's going to heal a lot more incidentally, just to have her units on buildings.
honstly my favorite thing about DOR is the fact that recon sweeps are a thing aka seeing all the tiles you passed by which was a cool addition(which lets you flush out forests or cities)
I never yield even if it seems hopeless or is considered a waste of time. It's just how I am. If you really want that win, you'll have to go all the way to defeat your opponent.
@@Dusk2435 there was a psychological aspect that it looked like he was totally being destroyed in the property game when he was tied in properties; I still don't think he would have drawn though
“People have a habit of not surrendering” “I do believe that I have lost at this point... but want to put up a fight” Yes Mangs this is why people don’t surrender.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned this but it isn’t the typhoon that is winning the match here. It’s the fact the King Arthur is holding the line within tank range of his bases. Every single push is just swept up by two fresh tanks, who team up with the damaged survivors from Mang’s offensive to hit Mang’s slightly damaged forward units after their push. The bases are essentially acting like tank silos and launching tanks at the offensives to instantly regain a local number superiority while also full killing Mang’s vanguard units, most of which have only taken single duels that don’t full kill because there isn’t enough room to maneuver and are stuck on roads. Look at the map right before the second typhoon hits. King Arthur has 3 operational tanks (2 full HP, 1 6HP) already on the field + 1 full HP tank in range from the base. He basically outnumbers mangs 2 to 1 since the 1 HP and 2 HP tanks basically have the firepower of an infantry. Even without the typhoon any CO could win without their power, even Colin tanks could easily hit first on the 2 operational tanks and win, much less 3+1 operational tanks from Drake who has no tank penalties.
@@Mangs1337 Hey, im King Arthur. First thing I would like to mention is yeah the analysis is pretty good, I like to think of maps, especially smaller ones, in zones. Every tile that is 6 move away from my base (dont forget forests cost 2 move) is part of my zone of control. What this means is any conflict happening in this area will be advantageous to me, because tanks built can instantly join the battle while yours can't. It's why I always try to bait conflict in those areas and why I wasn't very worried when I left my artillery kind of exposed, because conflict there is good because it's in my zone, meaning I can counter with my tanks and if you try to counter with yours during your turn you stay in my zone, so as this goes on eventually I win Obviously there are ways to overcome this, one of the most common is if u have an infantry advantage, because then you can kill their tanks and shield yours from the factories. Anyways even when I was winning I still avoided entering your Zone of control, doing my best to lure you in with engagements that are good in the short-term but I know I can win in the long term, which is aided by typhoon as they both work together in the counter-attacking. Now something that I would like to say is one of the big reasons typhoon is so good which you didn't really bring up, and this comment also kind of ignored is that lowering the opponent's Hp also indirectly lowers their defense This is because in advance Wars the amount of Defense you get from terain is based on your HP so if you have 10hp, cities give 30% def, but if you have 8 cities only give 24%. So if you look back again at the typhoon turn that this comment mentioned, there is a tank in a missile silo where I normally couldn't attack for positive value, because I would need to attack on road/shoal but since it gets hit down 8HP its defenses are lowered allowing me to do more damage and it deals way less on the counter-attack. Another great example is on the typhoon turn where you had 2 Mechs in mountains that lost a decent amount of the defence and were taken out by my infantry and anti-air Last thing is I actually didn't even notice there was a time limit lmao, so I'm happy it didn't come down to that because I would have been very surprised (this is my fault for not checking the settings)
Oh yeah I almost forgot to say another reason why Typhoon is good is since it lowers movement with rain your zone of control is actually smaller Didn't matter that much in this map because there are a lot of roads and shoals everywhere, but on our first match there was a lot of times where I was able to overextend and hit your units that would normally be in your Zone because the rain fucks the movement of the tanks you built in your bases, shrinking your zone Also everything I said here applies to Olaf except it's even worse because snow is even more devastating (rip infs and air units)
37:45 when he joins the infantry, it wasn't so he had 1 healthy infantry, it was so he could afford a recon. He was only at 3900, joining gave him 4300, and then he spent it.
it's so funny to hear _every single match_ "now, normally, you don't want to pull units back to heal..." It's good that you're pointing out _why_ you're doing it in each case, though -- it's very educational!
@@truegamer_007 it's The bottom game in the advanced wars by web playlist that mengs has and it's him versus eagle and he loses because his lab got captured because he didn't know that when there's no HQ's the lab acts similarly to an HQ
This video also shows off why Olaf is actually a strong CO, imagine all the two extra damage and your movement being cut down, that can really hurt a push much more than drake and Olaf does not have any weak units unlike drake
Drake's power generally hurts movement way more than Olaf's does, unless the bulk of your firepower is concentrated in your air units and infantry and/or you're on a map with a ton of roads then your army will get totally bogged down by rain.
@@ShawFujikawa the first part is half true, the roads though are not effected by Olaf's power last I checked, I remember my tanks being bogged down considerably by olaf's snow because I lacked the movement to respond to his attacks properly, and I had to move on the roads on a road light map
@@ShawFujikawa Olaf changes movement cost of terrain so it actually affects terrain; roads and properties' movement costs aren't affected by snow as it has been said
Should say what I think he really means... pull back and heal if its hp if 5 or more, and only if it can reach the city in that turn. Hide it in a forest to recon if its less and cannot reach a city. Or so that seems to be how he does it
By pull back he means more than 1 move out of range from the front line, I'm pretty sure. Pulling back a unit for 2 turns to heal it is just costing you so much time before you get to use the unit again.
there's many reason to chose to heal or not a unit: -wonded unit are like a cheaper/weaker unit, if they're strong enaugh to do their job, don't invest more money on them -very low hp unit will take an eternity to heal back, at least 1 turn to go back,1 more to redeploy + up to 5more turn to heal, just combine and buy a new one -infantry have to be full health to capture efficiently -indirect unit are long to deploy and use very valuable place, it migth be a good idea to heal them if they're low, as long as it's faster than buying a new one -if you play Colin, you want to have close to full health unit to combine before using your power and generate more money, so you dont want to heal 8-9hp unit
I think this was also a lesson in playing patiently. Even though he was losing in terms of properties for the entire game, he didn't push. He kept the battle close to his bases, where he could quickly replenish his forces, which I think was a major factor. Mangs should've been more careful. He pushed a lot but lost a lot in the process too. And then it took a while to rebuild his presence. Yes you need to have initiative but you also can't have too much of it.
@@rebeccasheng620 He did stretch too thin and that was when the rain came to widened the gap, slowing Mangs down further. The Drake player was content to simply wait until Mangs pushed himself too far then bring the hammer down.
This. King Arthur played better and was already winning before the first CO power was used. He was leading captures at 13 to 10 in the beginning and had a value lead of 69k vs. 50k before first Urban Blight. But King Arthur is probably right that Kindle isn't 2 whole tiers better than Drake in advance wars by web. "by web"-Drake has completely new stats compared to any official AW game. On the other hand I counted the effectiveness of Urban Blight and it really was weaker than expected. Mangs caused 5 k to 8,5 k damage with each use, which is a little less than half of a Typhoon, for a little less than half the power meter of Typhoon. 2 Urban Blight turns and 1 Typhoon turn looked about even to me.
@@lagg1e Being able to exploit global damage, regardless of positioning, was a big part of why Arthur crushed Mangs so thoroughly. Yes, he was a better player in general, but he was a better player using a strong strategy on a CO whose powers enable and enhance that strategy. Due to how offense and defense values scale with unit HP, Arthur's zoning strat enabled him to capitalize more heavily on exchanges than what the raw money value of the power initially suggests (don't take my word for it; take Arthur's; he even admits such in a comment thread above). Where you see 5 - 8k of economic damage from the powers, I saw that PLUS even more from the favorable exchanges enabled by the global damage after the fact. This was exactly the strength of Drake that Arthur was trying to show here, and he did so masterfully.
Eh, I used to run AI vs AI tests, and this pretty much matches what I used to observe with COs like Drake on land maps. Up until his first super CO power, he was behind (and this Drake was behind by two building captures at the start in this match). And Drake wasn't necessarily ahead after the first super CO power in the matches I observed either...but every time Drake uses his super CO power the match tipped more and more in his favour. I will say, the 25 turn limit is not the ideal format for Drake, though. Drake tended to punch way above expectations when matches had no turn limit. But I can't be confident that he'd reliably have a building advantage by turn 25. (Longer matches just naturally help Drake, though, since he needs to make a comeback from just not having relevant day to day bonuses for the first several turns, and also the longer a match goes, the more units tend to be on the map, which means the more raw value he gets from his CO power). He's not like...broken tier or anything--not like Drake would beat Colin. And there's certainly better direct damage heroes (at least in the hands of AI, Rachel beats Drake--maybe in the hands of a human the covering fire missiles could be baited to hit bad targets). But Kindle? Yeah, I would expect Drake to beat Kindle.
IMO Drake the AWDS naval system (i.e. cruisers are actually useful) would be a bigger buff to Drake than a +20% attack (unless that's not in place of his +20% defence).
I mean, you haven't been paying attention to much, if you think the reboot is a reskin. It's a game which requires to be rebuilt for the console it's on. GBA is not anything like the Switch. The game looks good. Judge it after it drops.
@@randomguy-tg7ok nah i was thinking 20 to both stats and i don't know if the AWDS naval system is coming because it's from another AW games (i think it's more probable that we see brand new changes) *But i really hope they make the battleship cheaper*
Wow, this kingArthur guys really good. He pretty much just showed us that passives aren’t as important as good positioning and properly taking engagements. Skill>CO essentially. Absolute master class. Good match both of you!
Well imo what he showed is that a lot of skill invalidates kindle, and Drake isn't as weak as Mangs because he can delay a push by reducing fuel, hp and movement all at once
@@iambread2914 what do you mean? drake's ships have 20% fire power plus CO power to reduce fuel of enemy subs which is deadly on water maps. If there are airports then obviously ships might not be worth it but drake is very strong on water maps
Well it's easy. Sturm units have less attack and Hatchi can just overrun him in the AW web. (Sturm has -20% attack +20% def) He is not a S tier co on most maps in web.
When you think about it, Drake's Tsunami is essentially a 10% offense boost, and a 10% defense boost, but better (unless against Andy), and halves the Enemy's fuel.
even against andy its still very effective since you have that turn to still abuse the AOE damage before Andy gets his chance to heal, Andy will heal but several big units will be dead and a diminished return heal
@@RyuseiiTheCrimsonKing I think that´s the point of using COs like Olaf and Drake VS Andy, to just use the global damage to weaker his units, making them easier to kill, before he gets a chance to heal them back.
Except Mangs understood the actual objective. Without the power Drake doesn’t get enough of a push to take the properties he needs late, and even with it this match would’ve been a draw (only because of the turn limit, even a slightly more generous one gives Drake the win regardless)
@@jrbehr4643 I have to disagree. Mang’s aggression was just way too high considering he was really barely scraping by in the back and forth. Drake was playing close to home next to the U bend road, which not only gave him fresh tanks to immediately counterattack with but always put at least a few of mang’s units on cruddy defensive terrain if they wanted to attack his units last turn. Mangs basically had zero indirect game due to his aggressive pushes that ended up dying to the first counterattack, then pushing in right after as soon as new tanks rolled off his bases 2 turns away instead of saving up.
@@jrbehr4643 Nah. If you look at how Drake uses his tanks, he capitalized on Mangs spreading out too much instead of securing what he had, and completely took over the initiative and tempo of the match. Mangs was never able to really establish any sort of stability on the map, and was always scrambling to defend his lead and front line. The global damage helped apply pressure, and I think playing Kindle, so sorta fixating on properties also hurt, but, that was overall pure outplaying both in the overall strategy and moment-to-moment, that really could have been done by any CO with a decent power.
well...not really. AW2 olaf isn't any better, which is the same case in awby. But dual strike olaf is a different beast because he can make it snow almost 100% of the time with mini power, which gives him + 30% attack 10% def on the first day and 20% attack on second day, then repeat the cycle on the third day
Hmmm, I guess it depends? The snow is a huge roadblock to movement and the damage is great, but it doesn’t block vision (I think). As a result you can pull cheese strats like shooting with indirectly and then popping rain to stop your opponent from using theirs to retaliate. Still, the snow is strong. I think if you put yourself in a position where you can stop an opponent from reaching your units for a first strike and then countering during snow you would devastate them. Pretty much Russian winter memes.
Yeah as a Professional Kindle Main / Kindle Marrier, and I'm not really an expert on PvP, but against humans I think you want to use indirects just a little more, especially in this matchup against Drake. As we're all experts fighting the CPU, those CPU matches enkindle in all of us the desire to play aggressively so we can get S ranks, and indirects naturally suffer a bit in that environment because they are rather slow and so you usually use tanks and medium tanks in aggressive CPU play. But against humans Indirects really start to shine because none of that S rank nonsense matters anymore, yet our training and predilection for tanks still remains (of course tanks are so useful you still do want lots of them). I feel indirects are a natural fit for Kindla because they just have good synergy with sitting on properties. Getting autohealed, getting higher effective HP from defense stars, getting ammo, although it IS painful giving up the ambush potential of forests sometimes. This match shows, you can't just cripple a Kindle artillery on a city with one tank. That thing is going to hit back damn hard even at 5/7 HP. You are going to need 2 or more units to destroy that (and it needs to be at least a mech; I don't think one infantry is going to cut it), or it is going to sit there and still hit hard and eventually heal to full. And while I agree that repairing is usually crappy, I think indirects in general are an exception. Like how recons can still do their jobs at 1hp behind enemy lines, I think Indirects, especially Kindle's, can often still do their jobs while sitting in a city repairing. You probably don't want to pull your 7HP tank back to a frontline city, but that's probably a good spot for your indirects regardless of repairing. Of course one problem with indirects is they need protection. The other big Kindle synergy then I feel is lots and lots of infantry meatshields (and of course, it's nice that her infantry are going to hit like trucks half the time). This is a bit trite to say though, because EVERY CO needs to build lots and lots of infantry every single turn. You can't really build any more infantry than anyone else with the standard number of bases, so what does it really mean to say she wants lots of infantry? Well, I think it needs to be in the form of maybe fewer recons or other units in the midgame. These free up factories and funds for more infantry meatshields for your indirects, or simply some tanks or other, better meatshields for your indirects; even battle copters are extremely good meatshields until opponents can get an AA to it. And also regarding infantry, making sure your early game infantry are in the right position to muster around your indirects in the middle of the map after they have captured their early game properties. You might even want to have pre-planned capture routes that naturally end with your infantry mustering towards the middle of the map ready to clog up the roads to your property-based indirects. As for the fact that it's Drake, I feel she actually counters Drake a bit, even though Drake's power is definitely better. If you are heavily sitting on cities, a lot of that tsunami damage is going to be repaired and fuel refilled. It sucks that you have to pay for it, but it's better than having a bunch of units with 8 or 9 hp. But that only goes for a defensive strategy where you are successfully holding your positions around cities. This is all theorycrafting. In reality, you may or may not have any time or opportunity to actually get any of that rolling because honestly indirects are an investment that takes time. In this actual match, he suddenly amassed 3 artillery in the center. You didn't have much choice but to suicide your tanks into that to dismantle it. Then, I feel really the deciding point of this match, you started pushing right into range of his main factories with fresh Drake tanks coming every single turn. You actually control the middle two properties right now, and there's no way you could last long with 1 or 2 new tanks hitting your push lines every turn, especially not after tsunami. Was there any chance to turn around and consolidate your positions with some indirects? Dunno. You might have lost even more units then, because he still had tanks roaming around that would have attacked you as you retreated. That could have been catastrophic as well. In the end, I don't think Kindle is particularly strong in that position, pushing into fresh factories. I think she wants to take ground and defend it with indirects and meatshields, and if that becomes too dangerous, fall back on trying to get as much value from favorable trades by luring enemies near properties. Mainly I feel it's the map itself and Drake's SCO power simply being better than Kindle's that ultimately turned the tide of this match. On this map, both players have factories with open roads right in range of the center properties. It's extremely volatile, and after each turn of yours that appears strong, what we can't see are the fresh tanks that were built last turn that are already in range of us and are just going to crush us next turn. It's really a meatgrinder map for Drake to get his tsunamis off, which I have to say is superior to rapid fire urban blight spam. About the mechs, I think it was simply too late in the game for that. They are gonna take forever to get to any kind of valuable engagement, there's way too many tanks already roaming around, and they really need mountains and a smaller map if they're going to shine this late into a game. I would have even preferred if you just made plain infantry there just to meatshield, cap, or scout while being a little faster. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I don't really think that that was a powerful map for Kindle, because on this map every property stood alone it was easy to kite or block them from useful engagements, Kindle strongly benefits from properties that stand alongside eachother, someplace where you can force your opponent into an engagement on or around them
I think in general it's harder to force enemies to fight you in a city than it looks. Indirects aimed at your cities will easily negate your advantage, and oftentimes enemy players will just... not put their units adjacent to cities, as seen here. Considering cities are advantageous terrain for most every CO, it doesn't make as big of a game impact as perhaps it should on paper. Meanwhile holy crap reducing your whole army by 20% is brutal.
I think a big thing people miss about this map is that all the properties are next to open roads or plains, never defensive terrain forests or silos as well as other properties. This looks good on paper for Kindle as she can just crush any single unit next to the property, but it actually sucks because tons of units can just roll up with great mobility to clear and occupy the isolated properties and deny them. Or just go around them. The properties weren’t in any good chokepoints. Mountains don’t really count since the mechs never really got much usage this match.
But you should also join the discord. Mangs is a good start. But the meta is brutal and you will reach a point where you will need help from some of the long time players.
This was a very interesting match to watch, specially for beginners like me. One detail I keep noticing is about vision range. In this encounter King Arthur consistently had vision over half of the map or more. In the other duels posted so far, Mangs' opponents had always poor vision, barely seeing one tile further than their front line. It seems that good visibility helps for good engagements.
you know what would be a cool balance change? Give Flak sturm's "ignore movement costs" passive. he's still flack, but he powers through anything in his way.
Drake and Hawke are amazing, those tsunamis where in fact devastating, but, also is Black Storm even at the beginning of the turn or at the very end that is amazing stuff with Global Powers
I think that the key to Global-Damage powers is to play defensively when the power is building. There's no point in killing enemy units prematurely. While you build up forces, your enemy is building up forces, and the more value your enemy has on the field, the better your power is. And then once you do pop your power, all of the enemy's fortified positions are now weakened, and so a push of your own can break their lines.
I love CZcamsrs who are more than willing to praise those who can actually manage to beat them in games, sometimes it's pretty boring to see your favorite CZcamsr Crush their opponents 24/7 it's cool to see them fight hard as hell till the last turn.
Drake's Typhoon slowed down & neutered your vehicle units, which is what's often built around mid-game where you ramp up tank production over keeping the infantry spam. Your units sitting on properties also sapped your income for upkeep during the Typhoon, which slowed down your continuous unit production. That's why the left side of your field was thin - His Typhoon cut the momentum so hard that you felt pressured to regain the momentum (put all your eggs in a basket) from trading effectively with his units, instead of cutting your losses and turtling down while amassing units.
As Drake I like to spam the regular CO power. Reasons: - twice as often pesters the opponent with rain - quarters fuel in almost the same time as the super halves it - becomes a significant problem for air units! - twice as often +10atk +10def - cost for 2 hp of global damage is only 1 star more (7 stars vs 8 stars) - a single hp of damage in combination with the atk&def bonus is enough to decide major battles - you often get the power before your opponent, which can be invaluable - can be used opportunistically when you most need it
I'm so glad you're back! I was waiting for more commentaries, these are so good! I had to tide myself over with your some of your older playthroughs (mainly Andy's Adventure)
King Arthur, I've heard of that player though I'm not sure they're the same one. From what I recall they're very good and when you see that name you know you're in for a fight. They're one of the few players I'd probably start genuinely sweating bullets if I was matched up against. Great match!
Y'know Drake has always been one of my favorite COs. Just his personality and theme alone always make me play Drake even if he isn't good. So I was definitely in awe by this Drake's skill. Good stuff man
Drake strategy was pretty sound. He made plenty of artillery and just clumped all of them in the middle to force you to attack them instead of his tanks. Even if you overpowered him a bit there, that made him closer to Typhoon so that he could weaken your tanks further and then pick them off. He played emphasizing the rythm of his super CO power while finding a way to absorb your CO power, even if that meant sacrificing some eco. If you had a way to wait and time your Super CO right before his Typhoon, you could have gotten a lead, but he played around that by giving you a very good reason to use your CO prematurely.
Hi Mangs! For the record: Not all Terrain COs get their bonus to air units. Lash' air units do not get bonuses at all, because air units cannot get terrain stars.
as someone who always loved Drake this makes me very happy. time to analyse this so i can play well even if Drake doesn't get any buffs in Reboot Camp.
Really pushes to home that, when both players are generally making close to optimal moves, the game can come down to being fundamentally an economy and value game. The closer a CO gets to that as a first principle in advance wars, the better they tend to be in the ranks. Really explains why Hachi and Colin are so good and why direct damage can be devastating in it's own right since it directly affects economic value. If your CO has to to rely on positioning, good matchups, and timing your power to get the value through positive engagements then you naturally have several more obstacles & hurdles in the way of obtaining that economic value than the COs that don't need to do that. Also, having 200% damage against an enemy unit doesn't generate 200% of the value for destroying it. You only need to get to 100% (or a little higher if you have bad luck) and any damage after that is pointless, regardless of how cool it looks.
I really enjoy watching these replays. Have you ever thought about a live commentary? I think it could be interesting to see your throught process live instead of in a replay. Still, great content Mangs!
I also love to see more diffrent Co's! I would also love to see some of the more broken CO's with special tactics and see how they play out when handled by a good player. for example Grit and Sensei. would love to see how they use their strenghts.
Just one question, why didn't you build medium tanks? By setting one or two of them up in the middle on properties you force him to go heavy on indirects as he can't deal with them otherwise. More expensive units are able to utilise this waaay better. Rockets would have also been really great for holding the middle.
Mediums and Rockets are a luxury on a map like this with around 20k income per turn because you can't really buy anything else with them and they don't do anything on their own. Mangs was never really at a point where he could afford to have that weak buying turn, he was mostly just busy brawling in the center. If anything I thought the Drake player could have bought one of them around day 15 to help close out the game, Mangs would have been completely screwed given he already had a huge tank deficiency.
@@ShawFujikawa If he forgoes buying the battlecopters and mechs, then yes he might have afforded at least one MD tank. The copters were basically useless as they mostly strafed cheap infantry and the mechs were just too slow on such an open map where tanks could speed around nonstop.
@@yoloman3607 I said he couldn't afford to have a weak turn like that, not that he couldn't afford the tank itself. He should have not bothered with mechs but ignoring battle copters is a big no-no.
@@ShawFujikawa Pulling out an MD tank would have either forced another MD from drake or a rocket, the artillery was already present and mostly dealt with. Pulling out an AA for dealing with copters isn’t much of a strain since it can still sweep up infantry and recons. A medium tank is the perfect unit for the map, open with lots of roads, while only having a few unconnected properties. With one big unit, Mangs could optimize his firepower and deterrence on the few properties in the center while also putting a halt to the massive drake tank advantage. The property bonus Kindle gets makes an MD tank invincible to massed normal tanks with no firepower bonus. The battlecopters on the other hand were basically exiled because of how dense the defense line around King Arthur’s bases was. They simply don’t have the staying power for such a mobile slugout and Mangs never had a big enough income margin to build the pairs of copters needed to outright kill things.
The newest Guilty Gear character and Drake have a lot of similarities. For instance, Goldlewis has his Behemoth Typhoon, while Drake is a Typhoon Behemoth.
Basicaly. Unlike olaf he cant make ut rain with his normal power. Though the 1 damage to all units is still nice for the mini one better than some other walking co powers
At least his CO power is okay, and at the very least counters many types of units thanks to the fuel drain if he does it more than once. Some walking SCOP characters have pretty dog shit powers, but against Sasha, at least you could be satisfied pulling off his CO power
Mangs: *Makes fun of Drake's sailor talk in the campaign.*
King Arthur: So I took that personally.
Mangs will be sleeping with the fishies
@@_Hamler Dead men tell no tales.
@@_Hamler taking a permanent nap on the sea bed
johny sins flooded
Mangs saying that AW1 version of Drake looks like a monkey
King Arthur: so you have chosen death..
"You want to play a game called properties are lava, except you want to step on the lava... But only if i'ts your lava"
Never change, Mangs.
Oh lava.
I thought he said Llama and I had no fuckin idea what we was conveying lmfao
Quoted...
wait a second... isn't that just splatoon?
@@zetaku3349 As someone who has played a lot of Splatoon... yes. Except it's easy to spread your own lava.
20:40
Mangs: drake is bad
Global damage: so I heard you were talking shit
There was a time people thought global damage was trash, I was told not to use Olaf super power at all like… 7-8 years ago
Haha there goes 20% of your armies
yep, wait until the hawke player breaks him
Well Andy literally stops typhoon in his tracks. Andy's little power counters it.
@@Buster_Scruggs well the thing about Hawke is his CO powers are insanely expensive and you cant garantee a devestating push when you pop it. Mostly because cos can be constantly eating you with thier Cops or Scops.
As for drake you get that shit faster and you get more pushes
>Barges(BARGES!) into war
>Makes a naval pun
>Refuses to elaborate
>Leaves
>Barges into war
>"What's an airport, again?"
>Max has to elaborate
>Refuses to leave
@@somerandomnesspoo8467 everyone asks what’s an airport but no one asks how’s an airport
@@nonymouswisp8176 I will do you one better. Why is an airport?
Mangs every single game: I normally dont advocate healing but only in this specific situation and in no other situation seen in any other match would I heal my unit.
I just want to hear him admit that it's situational.
Basically the idea I get from his standard is to not go out of your way to heal and don't just sit a unit there just to heal, but of you're holding a line or pulling a unit back anyway then healing can be of benefit.
Or in other words, repairs are not worth going out of your way for, but while your there....
I'm not saying repairs are good but 2hp are 2hp
The problem is just healing for no reason, or the dreaded portlocked lander or battleship. If there is a specific reason for it, fine, the problem is defaulting to healing when a unit is injured, or ignoring the potential of damaged units.
Like, a good case is benchmarking your healing to survive an engagement with a specific unit, like getting a Recon up to guaranteed survive an attack from a full health Recon or Tank, if it's close.
Kindle/Candy is also sort if a weird case, because she wants to stick to cities even more than most, meaning she's going to heal a lot more incidentally, just to have her units on buildings.
Drake is so powerful he summoned a storm irl to strike fear into Mangs
the thumbnail photo is actually what drake looks like btw. hes real. hes very very real.
More like never mess with King Arthur. Dude put an insane fight with Drake.
"People have a habit of not surrendering when they're losing"
Well of course. Like they say in Days of Ruin, as long as there's life, there's hope!
honstly my favorite thing about DOR is the fact that recon sweeps are a thing aka seeing all the tiles you passed by which was a cool addition(which lets you flush out forests or cities)
I never yield even if it seems hopeless or is considered a waste of time. It's just how I am. If you really want that win, you'll have to go all the way to defeat your opponent.
@@Dusk2435 there was a psychological aspect that it looked like he was totally being destroyed in the property game when he was tied in properties; I still don't think he would have drawn though
Except when there's not.
“People have a habit of not surrendering”
“I do believe that I have lost at this point... but want to put up a fight”
Yes Mangs this is why people don’t surrender.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned this but it isn’t the typhoon that is winning the match here. It’s the fact the King Arthur is holding the line within tank range of his bases. Every single push is just swept up by two fresh tanks, who team up with the damaged survivors from Mang’s offensive to hit Mang’s slightly damaged forward units after their push. The bases are essentially acting like tank silos and launching tanks at the offensives to instantly regain a local number superiority while also full killing Mang’s vanguard units, most of which have only taken single duels that don’t full kill because there isn’t enough room to maneuver and are stuck on roads.
Look at the map right before the second typhoon hits. King Arthur has 3 operational tanks (2 full HP, 1 6HP) already on the field + 1 full HP tank in range from the base. He basically outnumbers mangs 2 to 1 since the 1 HP and 2 HP tanks basically have the firepower of an infantry. Even without the typhoon any CO could win without their power, even Colin tanks could easily hit first on the 2 operational tanks and win, much less 3+1 operational tanks from Drake who has no tank penalties.
Good analysis.
@@Mangs1337 Hey, im King Arthur.
First thing I would like to mention is yeah the analysis is pretty good, I like to think of maps, especially smaller ones, in zones. Every tile that is 6 move away from my base (dont forget forests cost 2 move) is part of my zone of control.
What this means is any conflict happening in this area will be advantageous to me, because tanks built can instantly join the battle while yours can't. It's why I always try to bait conflict in those areas and why I wasn't very worried when I left my artillery kind of exposed, because conflict there is good because it's in my zone, meaning I can counter with my tanks and if you try to counter with yours during your turn you stay in my zone, so as this goes on eventually I win
Obviously there are ways to overcome this, one of the most common is if u have an infantry advantage, because then you can kill their tanks and shield yours from the factories.
Anyways even when I was winning I still avoided entering your Zone of control, doing my best to lure you in with engagements that are good in the short-term but I know I can win in the long term, which is aided by typhoon as they both work together in the counter-attacking.
Now something that I would like to say is one of the big reasons typhoon is so good which you didn't really bring up, and this comment also kind of ignored is that lowering the opponent's Hp also indirectly lowers their defense
This is because in advance Wars the amount of Defense you get from terain is based on your HP so if you have 10hp, cities give 30% def, but if you have 8 cities only give 24%.
So if you look back again at the typhoon turn that this comment mentioned, there is a tank in a missile silo where I normally couldn't attack for positive value, because I would need to attack on road/shoal but since it gets hit down 8HP its defenses are lowered allowing me to do more damage and it deals way less on the counter-attack.
Another great example is on the typhoon turn where you had 2 Mechs in mountains that lost a decent amount of the defence and were taken out by my infantry and anti-air
Last thing is I actually didn't even notice there was a time limit lmao, so I'm happy it didn't come down to that because I would have been very surprised (this is my fault for not checking the settings)
Oh yeah I almost forgot to say another reason why Typhoon is good is since it lowers movement with rain your zone of control is actually smaller
Didn't matter that much in this map because there are a lot of roads and shoals everywhere, but on our first match there was a lot of times where I was able to overextend and hit your units that would normally be in your Zone because the rain fucks the movement of the tanks you built in your bases, shrinking your zone
Also everything I said here applies to Olaf except it's even worse because snow is even more devastating (rip infs and air units)
Woah
@@kingarthur3236 Now I'm even more interested to see the first match.
37:45 when he joins the infantry, it wasn't so he had 1 healthy infantry, it was so he could afford a recon. He was only at 3900, joining gave him 4300, and then he spent it.
good catch!
@@mizuhonova thanks!
it's so funny to hear _every single match_ "now, normally, you don't want to pull units back to heal..."
It's good that you're pointing out _why_ you're doing it in each case, though -- it's very educational!
You need to know the rules so you know when to break the rules
18:30 - "Just one shoting 1hp infantry, that's so strong"
Me: *noted*
finally! love these replays
You're here? Damn. Well good to know.
From Vaush to Mangs. I always a pleasant surprise seeing your comments!
@@LeftistMuslimGynocracy At least unlike Vaush Mangs isn't some sussy bingus leftist kiddy diddler
@@panthekirb7561 Mangs is also not in a polyamorous relationship with the bridge ogre who demands a toll from that one story
@@panthekirb7561 *whistles*
"There are 2 labs on each side"
*inner screaming*
Remember he's color blind, I can understand not being able to read the shapes when they cross over each other.
#mangsmath
Finally a game where Mangs loses. Now these are the strong players.
Mangs also lost on the first advanced wars by web match he posted
@@kaiser776_ which one?
@@truegamer_007 Olaf v Eagle
@@kaiser776_ He won that, unless you're talking about a different game. I'm not able to find that.
@@truegamer_007 it's The bottom game in the advanced wars by web playlist that mengs has and it's him versus eagle and he loses because his lab got captured because he didn't know that when there's no HQ's the lab acts similarly to an HQ
Psycologist: Giga drake is not real, cant hurt you
Giga drake:
Me, a Drake main: *i'am 4 parallel universes ahead of you*
@@Albortomagico good follow up
This video also shows off why Olaf is actually a strong CO, imagine all the two extra damage and your movement being cut down, that can really hurt a push much more than drake and Olaf does not have any weak units unlike drake
Drake's power generally hurts movement way more than Olaf's does, unless the bulk of your firepower is concentrated in your air units and infantry and/or you're on a map with a ton of roads then your army will get totally bogged down by rain.
@@ShawFujikawa the first part is half true, the roads though are not effected by Olaf's power last I checked, I remember my tanks being bogged down considerably by olaf's snow because I lacked the movement to respond to his attacks properly, and I had to move on the roads on a road light map
@@lordkommissarpetitt8022 Olaf's power reduces all units' movement by 1, it doesn't have anything to do with terrain.
@@ShawFujikawa Olaf changes movement cost of terrain so it actually affects terrain; roads and properties' movement costs aren't affected by snow as it has been said
@@Greymage55 Yeah you're right, i'm wrong on that one.
"You never want to pull back and heal units."
Proceeds to heal units in every single video.
Should say what I think he really means... pull back and heal if its hp if 5 or more, and only if it can reach the city in that turn. Hide it in a forest to recon if its less and cannot reach a city. Or so that seems to be how he does it
By pull back he means more than 1 move out of range from the front line, I'm pretty sure. Pulling back a unit for 2 turns to heal it is just costing you so much time before you get to use the unit again.
there's many reason to chose to heal or not a unit:
-wonded unit are like a cheaper/weaker unit, if they're strong enaugh to do their job, don't invest more money on them
-very low hp unit will take an eternity to heal back, at least 1 turn to go back,1 more to redeploy + up to 5more turn to heal, just combine and buy a new one
-infantry have to be full health to capture efficiently
-indirect unit are long to deploy and use very valuable place, it migth be a good idea to heal them if they're low, as long as it's faster than buying a new one
-if you play Colin, you want to have close to full health unit to combine before using your power and generate more money, so you dont want to heal 8-9hp unit
I think this was also a lesson in playing patiently. Even though he was losing in terms of properties for the entire game, he didn't push. He kept the battle close to his bases, where he could quickly replenish his forces, which I think was a major factor. Mangs should've been more careful. He pushed a lot but lost a lot in the process too. And then it took a while to rebuild his presence. Yes you need to have initiative but you also can't have too much of it.
Mangs probably stretched out a bit but they played great, love seeing losing matches
@@rebeccasheng620 He did stretch too thin and that was when the rain came to widened the gap, slowing Mangs down further. The Drake player was content to simply wait until Mangs pushed himself too far then bring the hammer down.
The Drake player was so good, he predicted the urban blight, and kept his units away from cities whenever Kindle was about to get her power.
Drake: But there are no docks on that map.
King Arthur: docks? Where we're going... we don't need docks.
Today: "I think I might need to rethink how much I value global damage dealing powers."
Tomorrow: "People were right. Hawke is S tier."
*laughs in Black Storm*
Advance Wars: Black Storm Rising
Tsunami is more useful than black storm to be fair
@@SquibbyJ makes me wonder though, whether spamming black wave or saving for black storm is better
Well, mangs has been getting kicked in the ass by some hawkes lately
Looking at the game, it really didn't feel like Drake is a better co than candy, just that king Arthur's a better player.
Fundamentally yes.
This. King Arthur played better and was already winning before the first CO power was used. He was leading captures at 13 to 10 in the beginning and had a value lead of 69k vs. 50k before first Urban Blight.
But King Arthur is probably right that Kindle isn't 2 whole tiers better than Drake in advance wars by web. "by web"-Drake has completely new stats compared to any official AW game. On the other hand I counted the effectiveness of Urban Blight and it really was weaker than expected. Mangs caused 5 k to 8,5 k damage with each use, which is a little less than half of a Typhoon, for a little less than half the power meter of Typhoon.
2 Urban Blight turns and 1 Typhoon turn looked about even to me.
@@lagg1e Being able to exploit global damage, regardless of positioning, was a big part of why Arthur crushed Mangs so thoroughly. Yes, he was a better player in general, but he was a better player using a strong strategy on a CO whose powers enable and enhance that strategy.
Due to how offense and defense values scale with unit HP, Arthur's zoning strat enabled him to capitalize more heavily on exchanges than what the raw money value of the power initially suggests (don't take my word for it; take Arthur's; he even admits such in a comment thread above).
Where you see 5 - 8k of economic damage from the powers, I saw that PLUS even more from the favorable exchanges enabled by the global damage after the fact. This was exactly the strength of Drake that Arthur was trying to show here, and he did so masterfully.
Eh, I used to run AI vs AI tests, and this pretty much matches what I used to observe with COs like Drake on land maps. Up until his first super CO power, he was behind (and this Drake was behind by two building captures at the start in this match). And Drake wasn't necessarily ahead after the first super CO power in the matches I observed either...but every time Drake uses his super CO power the match tipped more and more in his favour.
I will say, the 25 turn limit is not the ideal format for Drake, though. Drake tended to punch way above expectations when matches had no turn limit. But I can't be confident that he'd reliably have a building advantage by turn 25.
(Longer matches just naturally help Drake, though, since he needs to make a comeback from just not having relevant day to day bonuses for the first several turns, and also the longer a match goes, the more units tend to be on the map, which means the more raw value he gets from his CO power).
He's not like...broken tier or anything--not like Drake would beat Colin. And there's certainly better direct damage heroes (at least in the hands of AI, Rachel beats Drake--maybe in the hands of a human the covering fire missiles could be baited to hit bad targets). But Kindle? Yeah, I would expect Drake to beat Kindle.
Drake
Also known as
*Pls Intelligent System give him +20% in Attack on ships in the rimake i beg you*
Nah, it'll be more like a reskin than a remake, we can be happy if there are any new things added to the game
IMO Drake the AWDS naval system (i.e. cruisers are actually useful) would be a bigger buff to Drake than a +20% attack (unless that's not in place of his +20% defence).
Would people actually trust Wayforward to balance a strategy game?
I mean, you haven't been paying attention to much, if you think the reboot is a reskin. It's a game which requires to be rebuilt for the console it's on. GBA is not anything like the Switch. The game looks good. Judge it after it drops.
@@randomguy-tg7ok nah i was thinking 20 to both stats and i don't know if the AWDS naval system is coming because it's from another AW games (i think it's more probable that we see brand new changes)
*But i really hope they make the battleship cheaper*
53:23 that lighting strike was eagle trying to teach andy how to use an airport
How poetic that there was a thunderstorm in a game that had a Drake victory
Two uploads a minute? Damn Mangs really has been on that GRINDSET.
Nah that was a mistake lmao
@@Mangs1337 You sure you’re not a Quintillionaire?
@@Mangs1337 the more i learn from you the better i hope ill get at DOR ONLINE so thanks mangs
Wow, this kingArthur guys really good. He pretty much just showed us that passives aren’t as important as good positioning and properly taking engagements. Skill>CO essentially. Absolute master class. Good match both of you!
Well imo what he showed is that a lot of skill invalidates kindle, and Drake isn't as weak as Mangs because he can delay a push by reducing fuel, hp and movement all at once
Showed a loosing match, and was willing to consider what was shown. Mark of a mature person right there.
Plus, it was an interesting loss.
Losing to a very good game is always worthy of showcasing!
Wow this is pretty amazing so far. Drake being considered a low tier hero showing a lot of work even tho it's a shipless map is pretty impressive
So a drake without water is better then with water very in interesting of course it depends on the map if it has airport then drake has no chance
Yeah Drake is low tier and this seems like a pretty OP map for Kindle
@@texmj123 but that guy was able to pull throught
@@soulhoney1227 drake with water isnt gonna help since ships need 20K deployment. you'd be better off with no water
@@iambread2914 what do you mean? drake's ships have 20% fire power plus CO power to reduce fuel of enemy subs which is deadly on water maps. If there are airports then obviously ships might not be worth it but drake is very strong on water maps
"why yes, i do main drake even if i dont have ships. how could you tell?"
Drake seemed bad probably because you misjudged how fast meter can build overtime
Honestly, Drake has such a fantastic theme.
"One shotting a 1HP infantry its so strong"
Certified egg moment
mangs moment
the floor is made of floor
it gives you that superiority sense
It makes me very happy to see Advance Wars videos doing well currently.
You should show us a match playing as Hatchi trying to beat Sturm!
(AW2 Hatchi vs Sturm, for true OG match-up)
I'd like to see Sturm vs Rachel.
Well it's easy. Sturm units have less attack and Hatchi can just overrun him in the AW web. (Sturm has -20% attack +20% def) He is not a S tier co on most maps in web.
Capitalist Co fight. Hatchi vs Colin. Someone dew it.
@@mrcaos999 What about the Meteor?
@@mrcaos999 maybe just play the match on the OG black hole rising? Would be a true match up then
When you think about it, Drake's Tsunami is essentially a 10% offense boost, and a 10% defense boost, but better (unless against Andy), and halves the Enemy's fuel.
even against andy its still very effective since you have that turn to still abuse the AOE damage before Andy gets his chance to heal, Andy will heal but several big units will be dead and a diminished return heal
@@RyuseiiTheCrimsonKing I think that´s the point of using COs like Olaf and Drake VS Andy, to just use the global damage to weaker his units, making them easier to kill, before he gets a chance to heal them back.
Those weren't lightning strikes you were hearing, it's a typhoon!
Great replay. I love that you upload losses as well as wins, keeps me engaged because i dont know how the match will turn out.
The drake player outplayed you before their power even came to play. If you had switched the COs I'm pretty sure they'd beaten you too.
Except Mangs understood the actual objective. Without the power Drake doesn’t get enough of a push to take the properties he needs late, and even with it this match would’ve been a draw (only because of the turn limit, even a slightly more generous one gives Drake the win regardless)
@@jrbehr4643 I have to disagree. Mang’s aggression was just way too high considering he was really barely scraping by in the back and forth. Drake was playing close to home next to the U bend road, which not only gave him fresh tanks to immediately counterattack with but always put at least a few of mang’s units on cruddy defensive terrain if they wanted to attack his units last turn. Mangs basically had zero indirect game due to his aggressive pushes that ended up dying to the first counterattack, then pushing in right after as soon as new tanks rolled off his bases 2 turns away instead of saving up.
@@jrbehr4643
Nah.
If you look at how Drake uses his tanks, he capitalized on Mangs spreading out too much instead of securing what he had, and completely took over the initiative and tempo of the match.
Mangs was never able to really establish any sort of stability on the map, and was always scrambling to defend his lead and front line.
The global damage helped apply pressure, and I think playing Kindle, so sorta fixating on properties also hurt, but, that was overall pure outplaying both in the overall strategy and moment-to-moment, that really could have been done by any CO with a decent power.
The flashes of Eagle when the lightning struck killed me, subtle edits but got a pretty big laugh out of me
Same here!
If Drake is that good because of superpower then wouldn't Olaf be even better for a non-naval scenario?
Advance Wars 2 Olaf? Perhaps.
Dual Strike Olaf? Hell no.
well...not really. AW2 olaf isn't any better, which is the same case in awby. But dual strike olaf is a different beast because he can make it snow almost 100% of the time with mini power, which gives him + 30% attack 10% def on the first day and 20% attack on second day, then repeat the cycle on the third day
@@lacreatura4737 but dual strike olaf is stronger
Hmmm, I guess it depends? The snow is a huge roadblock to movement and the damage is great, but it doesn’t block vision (I think). As a result you can pull cheese strats like shooting with indirectly and then popping rain to stop your opponent from using theirs to retaliate. Still, the snow is strong. I think if you put yourself in a position where you can stop an opponent from reaching your units for a first strike and then countering during snow you would devastate them. Pretty much Russian winter memes.
@@lacreatura4737 Which does the online version use?
Not only is this the first time we see Mangs lose
But it's from my favourite green earth boy hell yeah!
I was looking forward to seeing him loose for once. If only to humanize him a bit more.
He actually lost against a Eagle player, because he forgot lab rule.
@@xMYx507 ooooooohh that's right i forgot
Yeah as a Professional Kindle Main / Kindle Marrier, and I'm not really an expert on PvP, but against humans I think you want to use indirects just a little more, especially in this matchup against Drake.
As we're all experts fighting the CPU, those CPU matches enkindle in all of us the desire to play aggressively so we can get S ranks, and indirects naturally suffer a bit in that environment because they are rather slow and so you usually use tanks and medium tanks in aggressive CPU play. But against humans Indirects really start to shine because none of that S rank nonsense matters anymore, yet our training and predilection for tanks still remains (of course tanks are so useful you still do want lots of them).
I feel indirects are a natural fit for Kindla because they just have good synergy with sitting on properties. Getting autohealed, getting higher effective HP from defense stars, getting ammo, although it IS painful giving up the ambush potential of forests sometimes. This match shows, you can't just cripple a Kindle artillery on a city with one tank. That thing is going to hit back damn hard even at 5/7 HP. You are going to need 2 or more units to destroy that (and it needs to be at least a mech; I don't think one infantry is going to cut it), or it is going to sit there and still hit hard and eventually heal to full. And while I agree that repairing is usually crappy, I think indirects in general are an exception. Like how recons can still do their jobs at 1hp behind enemy lines, I think Indirects, especially Kindle's, can often still do their jobs while sitting in a city repairing. You probably don't want to pull your 7HP tank back to a frontline city, but that's probably a good spot for your indirects regardless of repairing.
Of course one problem with indirects is they need protection. The other big Kindle synergy then I feel is lots and lots of infantry meatshields (and of course, it's nice that her infantry are going to hit like trucks half the time). This is a bit trite to say though, because EVERY CO needs to build lots and lots of infantry every single turn. You can't really build any more infantry than anyone else with the standard number of bases, so what does it really mean to say she wants lots of infantry? Well, I think it needs to be in the form of maybe fewer recons or other units in the midgame. These free up factories and funds for more infantry meatshields for your indirects, or simply some tanks or other, better meatshields for your indirects; even battle copters are extremely good meatshields until opponents can get an AA to it. And also regarding infantry, making sure your early game infantry are in the right position to muster around your indirects in the middle of the map after they have captured their early game properties. You might even want to have pre-planned capture routes that naturally end with your infantry mustering towards the middle of the map ready to clog up the roads to your property-based indirects.
As for the fact that it's Drake, I feel she actually counters Drake a bit, even though Drake's power is definitely better. If you are heavily sitting on cities, a lot of that tsunami damage is going to be repaired and fuel refilled. It sucks that you have to pay for it, but it's better than having a bunch of units with 8 or 9 hp. But that only goes for a defensive strategy where you are successfully holding your positions around cities.
This is all theorycrafting. In reality, you may or may not have any time or opportunity to actually get any of that rolling because honestly indirects are an investment that takes time. In this actual match, he suddenly amassed 3 artillery in the center. You didn't have much choice but to suicide your tanks into that to dismantle it. Then, I feel really the deciding point of this match, you started pushing right into range of his main factories with fresh Drake tanks coming every single turn. You actually control the middle two properties right now, and there's no way you could last long with 1 or 2 new tanks hitting your push lines every turn, especially not after tsunami. Was there any chance to turn around and consolidate your positions with some indirects? Dunno. You might have lost even more units then, because he still had tanks roaming around that would have attacked you as you retreated. That could have been catastrophic as well. In the end, I don't think Kindle is particularly strong in that position, pushing into fresh factories. I think she wants to take ground and defend it with indirects and meatshields, and if that becomes too dangerous, fall back on trying to get as much value from favorable trades by luring enemies near properties.
Mainly I feel it's the map itself and Drake's SCO power simply being better than Kindle's that ultimately turned the tide of this match. On this map, both players have factories with open roads right in range of the center properties. It's extremely volatile, and after each turn of yours that appears strong, what we can't see are the fresh tanks that were built last turn that are already in range of us and are just going to crush us next turn. It's really a meatgrinder map for Drake to get his tsunamis off, which I have to say is superior to rapid fire urban blight spam.
About the mechs, I think it was simply too late in the game for that. They are gonna take forever to get to any kind of valuable engagement, there's way too many tanks already roaming around, and they really need mountains and a smaller map if they're going to shine this late into a game. I would have even preferred if you just made plain infantry there just to meatshield, cap, or scout while being a little faster.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Heh, "enkindle".
Really good comment
Love ❤️ these replays. Was on the edge of my seat.
Mangs, I would have been so upset for you if the storm took out your recording, I've been there. Awesome match and replay commentary.
Oh Shoot Mangs Actually Lost, Drake Just Went from C to B, Quick Flak Mains You can Prove your not trash!
I don't think such a person exists.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz Fine I'll Do it Myself, Is what I would say if Mobile AWBW Wasn't So Janky.
as long as they redo flak to have indirect bombers, increased Antiair power, and battleships in lakes
I'm no flak main but I do know a guy who S ranked the entire war room with just Flak so just saying
@@deletedTestimony please tell me that's on youtube
These replays are amazing, I also appreciate how well balanced you narrate both sides of the engagements
It would’ve been an interesting concept if drake had amphibious direct vehicles.
Takes courage to post yourself losing but I learned so much. Thanks Mangs!
Hell yes a KINDLE video. We're getting closer to having one video per CO.
Now we need that lovely Sturm vs Hachi
jesus christ i love this format so much.
I don't really think that that was a powerful map for Kindle, because on this map every property stood alone it was easy to kite or block them from useful engagements, Kindle strongly benefits from properties that stand alongside eachother, someplace where you can force your opponent into an engagement on or around them
I agree with this. AWBW maps are actually very bad for Kindle. But the actual game maps are pretty well suited to her day to day.
I think in general it's harder to force enemies to fight you in a city than it looks. Indirects aimed at your cities will easily negate your advantage, and oftentimes enemy players will just... not put their units adjacent to cities, as seen here. Considering cities are advantageous terrain for most every CO, it doesn't make as big of a game impact as perhaps it should on paper.
Meanwhile holy crap reducing your whole army by 20% is brutal.
I think a big thing people miss about this map is that all the properties are next to open roads or plains, never defensive terrain forests or silos as well as other properties. This looks good on paper for Kindle as she can just crush any single unit next to the property, but it actually sucks because tons of units can just roll up with great mobility to clear and occupy the isolated properties and deny them. Or just go around them. The properties weren’t in any good chokepoints. Mountains don’t really count since the mechs never really got much usage this match.
I too would have chosen Drake vs Mangs and am proud to see a strong player rep the Blue Moon Crew :P
But Drake is Green Earth?
@@JamesWalker-du2mr I... Uh... We... Er... TSUNAMI!!!
37:40 Think he actually joined them because it just barely gave him enough funds to afford a recon at the end of the turn
Your vids are insane. I can learn so much from you🔥
But you should also join the discord. Mangs is a good start. But the meta is brutal and you will reach a point where you will need help from some of the long time players.
@@mrcaos999 what Mangs has a discord server?!
@@melonlord6322 aw for web has
Finally another AWBW vid. Love these.
"Is It Possible To Defeat Colin??" - Video Discription
So, where is Colin? I don't saw him xD
This was a very interesting match to watch, specially for beginners like me. One detail I keep noticing is about vision range. In this encounter King Arthur consistently had vision over half of the map or more. In the other duels posted so far, Mangs' opponents had always poor vision, barely seeing one tile further than their front line. It seems that good visibility helps for good engagements.
you know what would be a cool balance change?
Give Flak sturm's "ignore movement costs" passive. he's still flack, but he powers through anything in his way.
Or you know, indirect bombers
Don't forget the battleships in lakes!
That lightning strike was Eagle applauding Drake for winning
What a great demonstration of skill, knowledge, and wisdom from both players. Drake seriously kicks ass
18:30 Wait she can one shot one hp units?
That’s broken
It wasn't at 1 hp, what a lie, F tier
Jugger Infantry can uh, "reliably" oneshot 1HP Megatanks. Somebody stop this madman.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Broken as hell, S+ Tier
I absolutely love these replays, Never seen a drake player before
Yes! Mangs I always love checking your channel and seeing more advance wars content! Continue the awesome work!
Drake and Hawke are amazing, those tsunamis where in fact devastating, but, also is Black Storm even at the beginning of the turn or at the very end that is amazing stuff with Global Powers
Mangs talked serious shit about Damage CO powers and suffered the ultimate karma Lol love it
Wow. He played so well that Mangs conceded on his tier list.
It doesn't matter if he won or lost the match. He won the argument.
That was super fun to watch, victory or not! My favorite game in the series yet.
Only fault I would give the map choice is not a single property is next to another property. Only the lab in the middle even touched corners.
Really liking the amount of recent AW videos on your channel since the Reboot Camp announcement. Keep it up!
I think that the key to Global-Damage powers is to play defensively when the power is building. There's no point in killing enemy units prematurely. While you build up forces, your enemy is building up forces, and the more value your enemy has on the field, the better your power is. And then once you do pop your power, all of the enemy's fortified positions are now weakened, and so a push of your own can break their lines.
Mangs its because of your videos that I got into advance wars thanks for the good content my guy!
Poetic how in the lategame his forces also moved in like a tsunami breaking your lines with ease.
The tone changed after the defeat of the first push into kings base, nice!
I love CZcamsrs who are more than willing to praise those who can actually manage to beat them in games, sometimes it's pretty boring to see your favorite CZcamsr Crush their opponents 24/7 it's cool to see them fight hard as hell till the last turn.
Drake's Typhoon slowed down & neutered your vehicle units, which is what's often built around mid-game where you ramp up tank production over keeping the infantry spam.
Your units sitting on properties also sapped your income for upkeep during the Typhoon, which slowed down your continuous unit production. That's why the left side of your field was thin - His Typhoon cut the momentum so hard that you felt pressured to regain the momentum (put all your eggs in a basket) from trading effectively with his units, instead of cutting your losses and turtling down while amassing units.
This match how it could have been a tie
Is more of a psychological war of sheer numbers
As Drake I like to spam the regular CO power. Reasons:
- twice as often pesters the opponent with rain
- quarters fuel in almost the same time as the super halves it - becomes a significant problem for air units!
- twice as often +10atk +10def
- cost for 2 hp of global damage is only 1 star more (7 stars vs 8 stars)
- a single hp of damage in combination with the atk&def bonus is enough to decide major battles
- you often get the power before your opponent, which can be invaluable
- can be used opportunistically when you most need it
I'm so glad you're back! I was waiting for more commentaries, these are so good! I had to tide myself over with your some of your older playthroughs (mainly Andy's Adventure)
King Arthur, I've heard of that player though I'm not sure they're the same one. From what I recall they're very good and when you see that name you know you're in for a fight. They're one of the few players I'd probably start genuinely sweating bullets if I was matched up against. Great match!
Y'know Drake has always been one of my favorite COs. Just his personality and theme alone always make me play Drake even if he isn't good. So I was definitely in awe by this Drake's skill. Good stuff man
I love seeing these replays! More of this content is appreciated.
Drake strategy was pretty sound. He made plenty of artillery and just clumped all of them in the middle to force you to attack them instead of his tanks. Even if you overpowered him a bit there, that made him closer to Typhoon so that he could weaken your tanks further and then pick them off. He played emphasizing the rythm of his super CO power while finding a way to absorb your CO power, even if that meant sacrificing some eco. If you had a way to wait and time your Super CO right before his Typhoon, you could have gotten a lead, but he played around that by giving you a very good reason to use your CO prematurely.
My algorithm did wonders today. I’ve been on a major AW kicked lately, and didn’t know this existed! Thank you for this!!
Hi Mangs! For the record: Not all Terrain COs get their bonus to air units. Lash' air units do not get bonuses at all, because air units cannot get terrain stars.
Lightning strikes huh...
Guess that's Eagle "asking" you if will be the next CO you play with
as someone who always loved Drake this makes me very happy. time to analyse this so i can play well even if Drake doesn't get any buffs in Reboot Camp.
this is such great content! and you cast it very well and explain your decission making so well allowing us to follow your thoughts.
Really pushes to home that, when both players are generally making close to optimal moves, the game can come down to being fundamentally an economy and value game. The closer a CO gets to that as a first principle in advance wars, the better they tend to be in the ranks. Really explains why Hachi and Colin are so good and why direct damage can be devastating in it's own right since it directly affects economic value. If your CO has to to rely on positioning, good matchups, and timing your power to get the value through positive engagements then you naturally have several more obstacles & hurdles in the way of obtaining that economic value than the COs that don't need to do that.
Also, having 200% damage against an enemy unit doesn't generate 200% of the value for destroying it. You only need to get to 100% (or a little higher if you have bad luck) and any damage after that is pointless, regardless of how cool it looks.
I really enjoy watching these replays. Have you ever thought about a live commentary? I think it could be interesting to see your throught process live instead of in a replay.
Still, great content Mangs!
I'm currently playing on Mang's error against two kindles with a sonja, tons of fun
I also love to see more diffrent Co's! I would also love to see some of the more broken CO's with special tactics and see how they play out when handled by a good player.
for example Grit and Sensei. would love to see how they use their strenghts.
Just one question, why didn't you build medium tanks?
By setting one or two of them up in the middle on properties you force him to go heavy on indirects as he can't deal with them otherwise. More expensive units are able to utilise this waaay better.
Rockets would have also been really great for holding the middle.
I was also thinking rockets the whole time.
Mediums and Rockets are a luxury on a map like this with around 20k income per turn because you can't really buy anything else with them and they don't do anything on their own. Mangs was never really at a point where he could afford to have that weak buying turn, he was mostly just busy brawling in the center.
If anything I thought the Drake player could have bought one of them around day 15 to help close out the game, Mangs would have been completely screwed given he already had a huge tank deficiency.
@@ShawFujikawa If he forgoes buying the battlecopters and mechs, then yes he might have afforded at least one MD tank. The copters were basically useless as they mostly strafed cheap infantry and the mechs were just too slow on such an open map where tanks could speed around nonstop.
@@yoloman3607 I said he couldn't afford to have a weak turn like that, not that he couldn't afford the tank itself.
He should have not bothered with mechs but ignoring battle copters is a big no-no.
@@ShawFujikawa Pulling out an MD tank would have either forced another MD from drake or a rocket, the artillery was already present and mostly dealt with. Pulling out an AA for dealing with copters isn’t much of a strain since it can still sweep up infantry and recons. A medium tank is the perfect unit for the map, open with lots of roads, while only having a few unconnected properties. With one big unit, Mangs could optimize his firepower and deterrence on the few properties in the center while also putting a halt to the massive drake tank advantage. The property bonus Kindle gets makes an MD tank invincible to massed normal tanks with no firepower bonus. The battlecopters on the other hand were basically exiled because of how dense the defense line around King Arthur’s bases was. They simply don’t have the staying power for such a mobile slugout and Mangs never had a big enough income margin to build the pairs of copters needed to outright kill things.
The Lightning in the back was just Eagle saluting Drake.
The newest Guilty Gear character and Drake have a lot of similarities.
For instance, Goldlewis has his Behemoth Typhoon, while Drake is a Typhoon Behemoth.
In this behemoth typhoon
@@DeathofHeavens In this Behemoth Typhoon, Drakelewis swings his army directly into the enemy CO's face
@@aldar8240 In this behemoth typhoon, Drake wipes out all of Kanbeis bombers by making them run out of fuel
You know you lost when you see a good drake player build air unit
Next to corrin quest, this is my favorite content of the channel
top tier infantry plays at 8:46 lol
Oh suddenly I'm watching a different drake video
Question: if Drake’s SCOP is such a big strength, wouldn’t that just make him a walking SCOP outside of naval maps?
Rachel smirking in the corner
Gotta respect the timing of their first power to block captures, and drain some funds to keep opponents from reaching fund thresholds.
Basicaly. Unlike olaf he cant make ut rain with his normal power. Though the 1 damage to all units is still nice for the mini one better than some other walking co powers
At least his CO power is okay, and at the very least counters many types of units thanks to the fuel drain if he does it more than once. Some walking SCOP characters have pretty dog shit powers, but against Sasha, at least you could be satisfied pulling off his CO power