Father and Son collaboration. Projects like this is the best thing for pop and son relationships. I remember my dad and mother getting involved on my science fair projects and I became a professional inventor because of it. Nice job kiddo! In order to predict the future you have to create it.
I just posted a video response. I did much the same thing as you, but instead of having the cylinder rotate the crank (which I worried would be inefficient) I just had it pull the chain. This made the entire stroke effective at transferring power. I also used higher pressure scuba tanks. Great job on your car!
AWESOME!!! That's a very ingenious drive mechanism!!! Now I feel compelled to build a pneumatic engine, time to fire up inventor, model it, animate it, and order the parts!!!
Thanks. Of course I helped a lot but it was a great family project and opportunity to teach my son some great skills. He learned welding, electrical, pneumatics, and even some CAD skills on this project. It was his idea and he was involved with the entire project start to finish! My boys want to go into business selling these now, lol.
Originally we wanted to use the highest gear for maximum efficiency but it was not powerful enough at 100 psi to move the car. It uses a set amount of air per stroke so the fewer the strokes of the actuator per crank revolution the greater the range. If we can start with more psi and maintain it for longer we could use lower gears to start and change to higher gears at cruise. We experimented with several gears but ended up using the lowest gear because of the low power we have.
Some simple frame changes would make it much lighter. Different frame material would reduce the weight even more. Downhill reverse pumping could help refill the tanks and extend the range. Narrower front and rear tires would decrease drag... Etc... Great job!
What are you hoping to achieve? Give us some info like distance and litres to work on, so we all know how far you are towards your next step? And let us know what ideas you have in mind so we can all help think tank, in the end you are the one making it, so any ideas may help boost you closer to your goal. All we ask is a good discount on the final car when you reach the end,lol!!
We have some good ideas but too many projects on the table right now. Hopefully soon. Will probably be a lightweight single seat performance model. We want to see what kind of speed and distance we can achieve.
Yes and it's a good thing too! It was edited out but at about 2:25 they almost tipped over and the little guy would have been thrown out. The car isn't very stable in a turn if the weight is on the outside of the turn.
Watch part 1. most of your questions were answered there. the electrics are there to control the air flow to the actuator. I agree with the flywheel idea. and then maybe a bit more electronic work to stop the crank midstroke when the accelerator is lifted so it dosn't need a pushstart.
We've thought about many methods of putting air back in the tanks but all require power from the drive system which is already underpowered. There is a small onboard compressor that runs off the battery. It will provide a small gain in range but not much.
I'm pretty impressed with this. I'd maybe recommend a scuba tank with a regulator to get a longer distance and possibly higher speeds since they can hold much higher pressure over a common air tank
i think the second piston is for the future... first - the high pressure tank is really a must for range.. but i think the two pistons would accelerate to higher speed much faster and coast time would increase more greatly also... so that would kind of balance the air use.... i think for the next one a flywheel would be an idea to try ( with a clutch ) so when you work up the speed you release the clutch and hook the flywheel to keep the momentum :D good luck with the project :P
Not a bad idea, I wish i had a welder!!! A small question for you did you use the bicycles gears? Was just wondering how much pressure that actuator can apply? if you use the 6 gear compared to 1st gear, does it still use as much air?
Air does get released to atmosphere, we've thought about feeding it to another tank to fill it but as the pressure in that tank came up the power would drop dramatically. If we could get something like that to work it would make a decent reserve tank.
Thanks for the reply. A clutch would not be a good idea for a couple reasons, you will be wasting air for no reason if it was running while stopped. Also, there are losses through a clutch vs. a direct drive which would decrease efficiency. If the air actuator was running the compressor and alternator while stopped it would still run out of air and battery charge eventually. There are many ways to improve this, keep the ideas coming!
Not exactly sure what you mean. If you are referring to the cranks the right side one is linked to the pneumatic actuator and the left one has the magnetic switch mounted to it for the crank position sensors. Pedals were removed but both of the cranks are functional. The right side one was shortened to match the stroke length of the actuator.
Yes, if we do it again we will be using a high pressure tank/regulator setup, much lighter chassis and possibly use the gears. I don't recommend another actuator as that will just use the air up twice as fast. Once you are up to speed one is sufficient, just need more pressure.
need a "fixie" wheel as the 4th wheel, so, move the drive wheel to the left, put the "fixie" on the right, play with the gear ratios with the "fixie" wheel, so that while the tire on the left is drive by compressed air, the wheel on the right will actually operate a compressor, and make sure there are safety pop-off valves so the tanks do not rupture. some automotive A/C compressors can put out as much as 500 psi. and you may need to use an in line air oiler so that as the compressor sucks in air, it can suck in a few drops of oil at the same time to keep the compressor lubricated. the "fixie", when spinning, the pedals of a bicycle rotate until the wheel stops spinning. add a pulley to the bicycle sprocket and make sure it is twice the diameter of the pulley on the compressor, spring loaded belt tensioner. charge the tanks, if using the 120 psi system, get the safety valve with teh correct pressure, and if you hear the valves go off, you know it can sustain itself while in operation. is an idea i have had for almost 20 years now but, never had the money to make it a reality. i am curious to know can it sustain itself or atleast add some distance to the ride.
a question 1 does the air get push out and back in to the atmosphere and let the kid get a job mowing and doing lawn care around the neighborhood get some money to build more and sell those
We have gears on it tried the various gears. Actually wanted to use the highest gear for efficiency and range but power was too low to move the car. Lowest gear is the best we can use or it won't pull itself. A 2nd actuator would be great for power but for this setup you would loose some of the already limited range. You would be using twice the air volume per stroke. If we do another it will have higher pressure tank, single seat,and will loose a 100 lbs or so.
We have gears but in it's current configuration and weight it would barely get rolling in any but the slowest gear. We need more pressure to get more torque.
It does have a small compressor. Planned on a solar panel, ran short on time for the science fair. 2nd Generation model will be much better :) By the way, he just attended the Arizona Science Fair and received 2nd Place in the 5&6 grade engineering division. Not sure what project beat him, we'll have to check the web for info.
Yes but with this current setup it only has enough power to run in the slowest gear. If we lighten the vehicle and use more pressure we could have enough power to run quite a bit faster.
That is on the idea list already. I actually have an electric motor suitable for this but we ran out of time to integrate it before the science fair. Another useful purpose for the elec. motor is that it could be used to charge a battery while not providing propulsion. Possibly activate it on downhills and have regenerative braking...
Yes it would have more power and speed but at the sacrifice of range which is already limited. It would use twice the air volume to feed two pneumatic actuators.
hey, may i recommend mounting two scuba tanks and running an adjustable regulator and set it for the best pressure then you would get long run times and you could possibly use those higher gears
what about an electric motor attached to crank for aiding the start offs. This may help eleviate air loss on starts, and maybe able the use of a higher gear while travelling? Motor would only be used to get it to desired speed? Then be switched off??
Hehe, yes, he caught it soon enough to avoid a catastrophe but he preferred it was edited from the video. It can be a little tippy in its current configuration. It was a learning experience.
Very good design, very cute, very much impressed me. Congratulations to you. Will you please give me your vehicle's speciation. It is very much for all viewers. Thank you very much.
Take note he said we have some good ideas but too many projects on the table, this is Family why do you wish to try ruin it. You just need to comment positively, Even in the video he was not sure of the pressure and was taking readings from his son while the project was being tested!!!
Nice job using simple technology , there are ways to heat the air that turn this into an over unity device , check out the history of air cars , the oil companies have suppressed the technology for years , good luck in the future :-)
In your next design, position the driver on center and over the forward wheel base. this may help with stability in turns. Just a thought, hope it helps
oh yeah another idea maybe fit some sort of mechanism that you crank by hand, or pump , that which will make the car mechanically boost from standstill, so you get moving without using the air, in the beginning he was pushed!!
How can you guys rip apart a 5th grader?! That thing is incredible! One small suggestion though, swap out those captive air tank for aluminum scuba tanks. They hold 80 c.f. of air.
just a suggjestion, you should add a simple clutch, so you can keep it running constanly, like at a stop. maybe add a mini compressor's guts too, and let it be powered by the battery.
looking at all the ideas i found a hydrogen fuel cell torch on user name "mymessagetomark" now this mayhelp heat the air? Also alternate source of power could be a torch and stirling engine, or the Stirling engine could be made as an onboard compressor. The fuel cell could have a solar panel attached to it to assist the battery!!!
All the specs shown at the start of the video. We only achieved 0.425 miles and speed was 6-7 mpg. Of course speed was proportional to the air pressure on board. That sure was a long time ago, thanks for your comment. That young man has since graduated from college and he is quite successful!
a trick dont use both tanks at one time when the first runs out have something swich over to the second while the first charges up again THEN YOU COULD GO FOREVER
haven`t you thought about putting a second piston onto the other side of the wheel and put the pistons work one by one - so there would be twice the power and acceleration .. ( 2 air boosts during one wheel rotation... ).. oh .. and you were using a bike chain... it wouldn`t be hard to put some more gears and a bike gear changer to get more speed and acceleration to it :P think about it and good luck :D great project :P
The Engineer Guy thank you for the comment. The power was so low trying to actuate another piston while driving the wheel wouldn't work. We tried a small electric compressor to add a bit of range and it helped. With no charging method for the battery that would only work for so long. Would be fun to revisit this project and see what we could come up with.
hey guys i think you should make something like a wind turbine or something so that you dont have to keep stopping i mean something like the huge boeing 747 engines on either sides but use it to get in air through the propellers and keep using the air like that:~~~{~~}---O this is air:~this is tank{ } and:-- is pipe or tube to get to the actuator
Father and Son collaboration. Projects like this is the best thing for pop and son relationships. I remember my dad and mother getting involved on my science fair projects and I became a professional inventor because of it.
Nice job kiddo!
In order to predict the future you have to create it.
I just posted a video response. I did much the same thing as you, but instead of having the cylinder rotate the crank (which I worried would be inefficient) I just had it pull the chain. This made the entire stroke effective at transferring power. I also used higher pressure scuba tanks.
Great job on your car!
great engineering. what a project for a dad/son team. well deserved 1st place.
AWESOME!!! That's a very ingenious drive mechanism!!! Now I feel compelled to build a pneumatic engine, time to fire up inventor, model it, animate it, and order the parts!!!
I wish i would of had a dad that made great things...your kids are lucky!
Thanks. Of course I helped a lot but it was a great family project and opportunity to teach my son some great skills. He learned welding, electrical, pneumatics, and even some CAD skills on this project. It was his idea and he was involved with the entire project start to finish! My boys want to go into business selling these now, lol.
Well, did the business succeed?
Originally we wanted to use the highest gear for maximum efficiency but it was not powerful enough at 100 psi to move the car. It uses a set amount of air per stroke so the fewer the strokes of the actuator per crank revolution the greater the range. If we can start with more psi and maintain it for longer we could use lower gears to start and change to higher gears at cruise. We experimented with several gears but ended up using the lowest gear because of the low power we have.
wow that's so cool! Shane you are officially my favorite uncle still.
-Adam B.
fantastic project for 5th grade!
Cheers, Patrick
That would be a fun experiment! You've got my gears turning...
Looks like I'm late to the party but wanted to say I'm very impressed. The future is in good hands!
Some simple frame changes would make it much lighter. Different frame material would reduce the weight even more. Downhill reverse pumping could help refill the tanks and extend the range. Narrower front and rear tires would decrease drag... Etc... Great job!
What are you hoping to achieve? Give us some info like distance and litres to work on, so we all know how far you are towards your next step? And let us know what ideas you have in mind so we can all help think tank, in the end you are the one making it, so any ideas may help boost you closer to your goal.
All we ask is a good discount on the final car when you reach the end,lol!!
We have some good ideas but too many projects on the table right now. Hopefully soon. Will probably be a lightweight single seat performance model. We want to see what kind of speed and distance we can achieve.
Thats a cute little thing! Great work... congrats to the kid and the dad :)
dude this is amazing, you did an incredible job
Yes and it's a good thing too! It was edited out but at about 2:25 they almost tipped over and the little guy would have been thrown out. The car isn't very stable in a turn if the weight is on the outside of the turn.
Watch part 1. most of your questions were answered there. the electrics are there to control the air flow to the actuator. I agree with the flywheel idea. and then maybe a bit more electronic work to stop the crank midstroke when the accelerator is lifted so it dosn't need a pushstart.
We've thought about many methods of putting air back in the tanks but all require power from the drive system which is already underpowered. There is a small onboard compressor that runs off the battery. It will provide a small gain in range but not much.
I'm pretty impressed with this. I'd maybe recommend a scuba tank with a regulator to get a longer distance and possibly higher speeds since they can hold much higher pressure over a common air tank
i think the second piston is for the future... first - the high pressure tank is really a must for range..
but i think the two pistons would accelerate to higher speed much faster and coast time would increase more greatly also... so that would kind of balance the air use....
i think for the next one a flywheel would be an idea to try ( with a clutch ) so when you work up the speed you release the clutch and hook the flywheel to keep the momentum :D
good luck with the project :P
Not a bad idea, I wish i had a welder!!! A small question for you did you use the bicycles gears? Was just wondering how much pressure that actuator can apply? if you use the 6 gear compared to 1st gear, does it still use as much air?
Way to go. Great Video. Keep up the good work.
Air does get released to atmosphere, we've thought about feeding it to another tank to fill it but as the pressure in that tank came up the power would drop dramatically. If we could get something like that to work it would make a decent reserve tank.
Thanks for the reply. A clutch would not be a good idea for a couple reasons, you will be wasting air for no reason if it was running while stopped. Also, there are losses through a clutch vs. a direct drive which would decrease efficiency. If the air actuator was running the compressor and alternator while stopped it would still run out of air and battery charge eventually. There are many ways to improve this, keep the ideas coming!
Not exactly sure what you mean. If you are referring to the cranks the right side one is linked to the pneumatic actuator and the left one has the magnetic switch mounted to it for the crank position sensors. Pedals were removed but both of the cranks are functional. The right side one was shortened to match the stroke length of the actuator.
Awesome job.....I love it !!!
Very well done, keep it up guys.
Yes, if we do it again we will be using a high pressure tank/regulator setup, much lighter chassis and possibly use the gears. I don't recommend another actuator as that will just use the air up twice as fast. Once you are up to speed one is sufficient, just need more pressure.
need a "fixie" wheel as the 4th wheel, so, move the drive wheel to the left, put the "fixie" on the right, play with the gear ratios with the "fixie" wheel, so that while the tire on the left is drive by compressed air, the wheel on the right will actually operate a compressor, and make sure there are safety pop-off valves so the tanks do not rupture. some automotive A/C compressors can put out as much as 500 psi. and you may need to use an in line air oiler so that as the compressor sucks in air, it can suck in a few drops of oil at the same time to keep the compressor lubricated. the "fixie", when spinning, the pedals of a bicycle rotate until the wheel stops spinning. add a pulley to the bicycle sprocket and make sure it is twice the diameter of the pulley on the compressor, spring loaded belt tensioner. charge the tanks, if using the 120 psi system, get the safety valve with teh correct pressure, and if you hear the valves go off, you know it can sustain itself while in operation. is an idea i have had for almost 20 years now but, never had the money to make it a reality. i am curious to know can it sustain itself or atleast add some distance to the ride.
a question
1 does the air get push out and back in to the atmosphere
and let the kid get a job mowing and doing lawn care around the neighborhood get some money to build more and sell those
Great job guys! i never thought that would work!
We have gears on it tried the various gears. Actually wanted to use the highest gear for efficiency and range but power was too low to move the car. Lowest gear is the best we can use or it won't pull itself. A 2nd actuator would be great for power but for this setup you would loose some of the already limited range. You would be using twice the air volume per stroke. If we do another it will have higher pressure tank, single seat,and will loose a 100 lbs or so.
We have gears but in it's current configuration and weight it would barely get rolling in any but the slowest gear. We need more pressure to get more torque.
We have ideas to improve on the design, just have not done anything else with it. Someday...
Very inspiring... Awesome Great Job
It does have a small compressor. Planned on a solar panel, ran short on time for the science fair. 2nd Generation model will be much better :)
By the way, he just attended the Arizona Science Fair and received 2nd Place in the 5&6 grade engineering division. Not sure what project beat him, we'll have to check the web for info.
How many Liters or m³ (atmospheric air) has that gallon?
The idea is nice of course but it also looks very nice and makes a nice sound.
A breathing machine!
Yes but with this current setup it only has enough power to run in the slowest gear. If we lighten the vehicle and use more pressure we could have enough power to run quite a bit faster.
That is on the idea list already. I actually have an electric motor suitable for this but we ran out of time to integrate it before the science fair. Another useful purpose for the elec. motor is that it could be used to charge a battery while not providing propulsion. Possibly activate it on downhills and have regenerative braking...
was the stas for only one person or both them riding in it?
Yes it would have more power and speed but at the sacrifice of range which is already limited. It would use twice the air volume to feed two pneumatic actuators.
It does have a mountain bike rear wheel and gears. With the low power it will only go in the lowest gear at this time.
hey, may i recommend mounting two scuba tanks and running an adjustable regulator and set it for the best pressure then you would get long run times and you could possibly use those higher gears
what about an electric motor attached to crank for aiding the start offs. This may help eleviate air loss on starts, and maybe able the use of a higher gear while travelling? Motor would only be used to get it to desired speed? Then be switched off??
what pressure are the tanks at?
Well, we just used power from the grid but ideally, you could use solar, wind, or hydro power to run the compressor. We haven't made it that far yet.
how hard was it to get the feel of it?
have you been working on improving the car, or was this it?
great fun!....I found your video from the aircar
Hehe, yes, he caught it soon enough to avoid a catastrophe but he preferred it was edited from the video. It can be a little tippy in its current configuration. It was a learning experience.
nice one kid! I'm also planning to build one but it runs on an old engine that came from a junk shop instead of the pump your using there.
good work ,real intresting stuff..i spose you could recharge the air tanks at petrol station with the tyre inflators there..
Very good design, very cute, very much impressed me. Congratulations to you. Will you please give me your vehicle's speciation. It is very much for all viewers. Thank you very much.
Take note he said we have some good ideas but too many projects on the table, this is Family why do you wish to try ruin it. You just need to comment positively, Even in the video he was not sure of the pressure and was taking readings from his son while the project was being tested!!!
all i can say is...
AWESOME!
i wish i had one!
add 1 more actuator and go with high pressure co2 and that would be a new world of performance.
very nice project keep it up
on the MDI Car they say they heat the Air after it comes the tank which expands it, thus boosting performance!
Nice job using simple technology , there are ways to heat the air that turn this into an over unity device , check out the history of air cars , the oil companies have suppressed the technology for years , good luck in the future :-)
wooooooooow i would so love to have this at home!!!!
how about two big air tanks like the big huleiium ones that way you can go longer distance
In your next design, position the driver on center and over the forward wheel base. this may help with stability in turns. Just a thought, hope it helps
Great job 👍👍👍👍
Now that is an interesting idea. Of course it takes energy to heat the air. Need an efficient way to do that.
How much does it weigh?
oh yeah another idea maybe fit some sort of mechanism that you crank by hand, or pump , that which will make the car mechanically boost from standstill, so you get moving without using the air, in the beginning he was pushed!!
Specifications means length, breath and height and other information
when are you making the 2nd generation one
How can you guys rip apart a 5th grader?! That thing is incredible! One small suggestion though, swap out those captive air tank for aluminum scuba tanks. They hold 80 c.f. of air.
just a suggjestion, you should add a simple clutch, so you can keep it running constanly, like at a stop. maybe add a mini compressor's guts too, and let it be powered by the battery.
I bet you could greatly extend the range by adding a couple paintball Co2 tanks and a regulator to refill the air tanks.
how much did that cost?
not bad but it does need more air and another actuator, also needs a derailleur might get a bit more speed.
Did he recover from the tip at 2:26?
you could make this go 5-15 miles if you use 2 scuba tanks with a regulator to take the pressure from 230 Bar down to 140-215 PSI.
Very nice and good looking project air cycle car
Try using plastic composite cylinders for compressed air
Not sure what was wrong but I got it working again.
looking at all the ideas i found a hydrogen fuel cell torch on user name "mymessagetomark"
now this mayhelp heat the air? Also alternate source of power could be a torch and stirling engine, or the Stirling engine could be made as an onboard compressor. The fuel cell could have a solar panel attached to it to assist the battery!!!
The fact this is fifth grade is amazing. If he continued ,what did he make for college?
Been quite a few years now, that young man has since graduated from college and has a successful career in the semiconductor industry.
Most of the "official" tests were done with only one person in the car.
all that work and the kid on the bike is like go faster slow one.
the acceleration on that thing looks like it would be painfully slow
That's nice. What's the speed & miledge??
All the specs shown at the start of the video. We only achieved 0.425 miles and speed was 6-7 mpg. Of course speed was proportional to the air pressure on board.
That sure was a long time ago, thanks for your comment. That young man has since graduated from college and he is quite successful!
Take a look at vacuum forming on you tube looks pretty easy, maybe you can make body parts for your car.
a trick
dont use both tanks at one time
when the first runs out
have something swich over to the second while the first charges up again
THEN YOU COULD GO FOREVER
haven`t you thought about putting a second piston onto the other side of the wheel and put the pistons work one by one - so there would be twice the power and acceleration .. ( 2 air boosts during one wheel rotation... )..
oh .. and you were using a bike chain... it wouldn`t be hard to put some more gears and a bike gear changer to get more speed and acceleration to it :P
think about it and good luck :D
great project :P
that would be a good idea for this.
good thinking for future car.so I want to
damn its bagging for a electric wheel motor that will be cool but air power is quicker to charge
If that isn't STEAMPUNK I dont know what is 😎😎😎😎😎
I would have used another piston as an air compressor and that would have drastically increased its range.
The Engineer Guy thank you for the comment. The power was so low trying to actuate another piston while driving the wheel wouldn't work. We tried a small electric compressor to add a bit of range and it helped. With no charging method for the battery that would only work for so long. Would be fun to revisit this project and see what we could come up with.
Very Cool
You should put a mountain bike rear wheel!!
With the gear changer!
that way when you are riding it you could change you gear and go faster!
@odie714 what are you talking about??
cool!!
hey guys i think you should make something like a wind turbine or something so that you dont have to keep stopping i mean something like the huge boeing 747 engines on either sides but use it to get in air through the propellers and keep using the air like that:~~~{~~}---O this is air:~this is tank{ } and:-- is pipe or tube to get to the actuator
You should add 2 more air tanks or 3 and another actuator.
that makes an awsome noise
next... make that thing steam powered :P