Very good video. 380 is fickle with low velocity. Both of these loads were disappointing. The low velocity just didn't work. Maybe Hornady 90 Critical Defense or 90 Speer Gold Dot? Keep up the good work.
Quite interesting evaluation of ammo! It would be nice if you evaluate the budget Bersa BP380CC pistol, as it would be an interesting low cost EDC combo for self defense. Kindest regards.
I carried a Bersa 380 when I first started carrying, long before I thought of having a CZcams channel... I think it had a cast iron frame. It was a bit heavy for its size. I will take another look at their line-up.
Thats really interesting to see the Hydra shock deep fail to expand! It Maybe a bit too much to expect the little 380 to check all the boxes we expect the big 3 9mm/40/45 to do. But the best performers seem to be the xtp, hydra shock deep, and the extreme defender in standard pressure and +p. If I were carrying 380 in the winter I would definitely go with the extreme defenders, and in the summer the Hydra shock deep seems to do really well. The xtp is right on the edge of 12" of penetration but its readily available (if you can say that for 380 defensive ammunition) and does well enough for me.
Nice test, was hoping for better. Is this Knox Gel or how do you make it? Calibrated at all? Is the Gel still warmish from when you set out, or do you think it's cold and effecting it? Cheers keep up the good work
Great questions! I make the gel from the Great Value brand, which is cheaper and clearer than the Knox. I use a recipe that I worked out years ago by trial and error, with BB calibration. Because I know this recipe, I don’t calibrate each new batch. I probably should, but it’s actually surprisingly difficult to capture a BB on the ProChrono, so I wind up shooting it over and over when I do calibrate. Because of the results I’ve found with this particular brand, I keep the blocks as close to the freezing point as possible without going under. Happily, this was a 34 degree cloudy day, so I was able to keep the blocks outside for hours without them drifting out of spec. Normally I keep them on ice, which is tricky because you have to let the ice warm up a bit - if you just drop it into a cooler straight out of the freezer it will freeze the surface of the gel where the cubes touch it, and that destroys the gel.
Every test I've seen, that rounds blows everything away. Temp of the Gel??? Guaranteed 98 deg with critters. I suggest looking at other tests. Lots of them out there. Genius design. Just came out with one for 32 ACP that might make it viable. Getting 1045 FPS out of my 4.5" Beretta barrel.
Not all hollow points are designed to expand. When you hand load cartridges manufacturers will designate if they are expanding or non expanding hollow points. The reason for non expanding is to make a longer bullet so more contact with the rifling. This gives more rotation and improves accuracy. Expansion has been marketed as the holy grail of bullets. How much of the energy calculated from the chronograph is used to mushroom the bullet ? This is lost energy. Now expansion can prevent a bullet exiting. If a bullet exits it takes energy with it. This would be lost energy. So which is better ? Which yields more energy to an intended target ? Why is expansion better than an entrance & exit hole ? Wad cutters both semi and full types have solid terminal performance. Truncated cone and other flat nose bullets have solid terminal performance.
Hate to spam the comment section, but for a while (probably 2 years?) Underwood was loading 380 Golden Sabers in +P. Never saw anyone gel test it. I use Underwood 380+P XTPs. I've chrono'd them at 1030fps and 215fpe from my LCP Max (test uploaded on my channel)
I have tested the Underwood Golden Saber +p load. Out of the G42 into Clear Ballistics gel with 4 layers of denim it gets up to .60 inches of expansion and 12 inches of penetration. Velocity is about 100 fps faster than the Remington load. I've put one through the chest cavity of a young mule deer buck (recently expired) and found it completely expanded under the hide on the opposite side. At the right velocity, the Golden Saber seems to be pretty dang good. An email campaign to Underwood might get them to start loading them again...?
@@erichanson7293 I almost bought some several times, but the sort of data you just provided was nowhere to be found, so i never did. I have chatted with the owner of underwood a few times. If I remember i'll call him on monday and see what I can do.
@@Valorius I just checked some of my records. The Underwood XTP and their JHP 90 gr with the Dead Nuts bullet are very good performers also, especially the +p loads. (Testing .380 has been an obsession for the past couple years and I'm thrilled when anyone has data on .380 performance.) Underwood has the formula figured out and their XD and XP are also good. Other really good HP projectiles are Federal Punch and Low Recoil Hydrashok. Defiant Munitions all copper HP is the best of the all HP copper bunch. All just one guy's opinion. I would be interested to know how the G9 .380 load performs in organic gel.
Nice to see short barrel 380 tests , DDR thank you. I have to carry +p in my max to have any confidence in its ability. Underwood xtp is good but the jhp is a bit cheaper, or used to be; tools chrono’d it at 1100 from a max , I gel tested both and they did pretty much the same, both good. I never got into the copper xd/xp because of cost per round . Only the +p I’m referring to
I carry 380 Federal 95 gr FMJ in my LCP Max for the reason shown above. You can load HP ammo in a 380 and once in a great while it might expand even. But most often it performs just like FMJ. And the very few JHP 380's that do expand, penetrate minimally even in gel. What about rib bones, arm bones? I think if I am going to continue to carry my LCP Max it will be with FMJ.
The Golden Saber did pretty well, considering that it technically failed. Partial expansion is better than no expansion, and 15 inches penetration is awesome.
Both trash loads. Get yourself some Underwood 380+P Xtreme Defenders and don’t look back. Spend the cash to put 100 minimum thru your shooter with zero problems and if successful you’re good to go.
Very good video. 380 is fickle with low velocity. Both of these loads were disappointing. The low velocity just didn't work. Maybe Hornady 90 Critical Defense or 90 Speer Gold Dot? Keep up the good work.
FBI protocol calls for ONE layer of denim, one layer of fleece and TWO layers of Tshirt material. Four layer yes. But NOT four of denim....
I have never had good luck with 380 Golden Sabers.
Agreed. But they’re so darn close… maybe that +P you’re always pushing is the answer, lol!
@@GeographyCzar might just be!
After one disappointment after another in 380 I went with Underwood penetrators
Try the Defenders too. Very fine ammo.
I would imagine with the 3.675 barrel on a Shield EZ these would both expand just fine.
Also work very well in Glock 42s 3.25 inch barrel
Quite interesting evaluation of ammo!
It would be nice if you evaluate the budget Bersa BP380CC pistol, as it would be an interesting low cost EDC combo for self defense.
Kindest regards.
I carried a Bersa 380 when I first started carrying, long before I thought of having a CZcams channel... I think it had a cast iron frame. It was a bit heavy for its size. I will take another look at their line-up.
Thats really interesting to see the Hydra shock deep fail to expand! It Maybe a bit too much to expect the little 380 to check all the boxes we expect the big 3 9mm/40/45 to do. But the best performers seem to be the xtp, hydra shock deep, and the extreme defender in standard pressure and +p. If I were carrying 380 in the winter I would definitely go with the extreme defenders, and in the summer the Hydra shock deep seems to do really well. The xtp is right on the edge of 12" of penetration but its readily available (if you can say that for 380 defensive ammunition) and does well enough for me.
Another enjoyable, informative comparison, Dave. Thank you for confirming why I do not and would not trust either of these rounds for EDC/PD. 👍
Nice test, was hoping for better. Is this Knox Gel or how do you make it? Calibrated at all? Is the Gel still warmish from when you set out, or do you think it's cold and effecting it? Cheers keep up the good work
Great questions! I make the gel from the Great Value brand, which is cheaper and clearer than the Knox. I use a recipe that I worked out years ago by trial and error, with BB calibration. Because I know this recipe, I don’t calibrate each new batch. I probably should, but it’s actually surprisingly difficult to capture a BB on the ProChrono, so I wind up shooting it over and over when I do calibrate. Because of the results I’ve found with this particular brand, I keep the blocks as close to the freezing point as possible without going under. Happily, this was a 34 degree cloudy day, so I was able to keep the blocks outside for hours without them drifting out of spec. Normally I keep them on ice, which is tricky because you have to let the ice warm up a bit - if you just drop it into a cooler straight out of the freezer it will freeze the surface of the gel where the cubes touch it, and that destroys the gel.
@@GeographyCzar awesome thanks are you in Canada or US near the border looks pretty cold
@@DanTheWolfman 48.4°N
partial expansion... I still wouldn't want to get hit with em!!! Nasty wound one would imagine.
dang! i bought four boxes of hydrashok deep last week & now i learned that they may as well be FMJs.
Every test I've seen, that rounds blows everything away. Temp of the Gel??? Guaranteed 98 deg with critters. I suggest looking at other tests. Lots of them out there. Genius design. Just came out with one for 32 ACP that might make it viable. Getting 1045 FPS out of my 4.5" Beretta barrel.
Thanks for the test! I've been carrying the HydraShok Deep round in my Sig P238. Will have to find some Golden Sabers.
Right on
Why?? They failed miserably.
Why they are junk ?
I thought the French Duke was shot with a 32 just like Hitler. I could be wrong though.
You are correct. He was not shot with a 380 he was shot with a 32 ACP.
@@chucko3879 Nope, 380. FN 1910.
Princip used serial #19074.
Great test! I appreciate the real gel tests. I think the clear ballistic tests are bogus, especially with slower rounds. Great video! Thank you.
Thanks for sharing Dave!
Not all hollow points are designed to expand. When you hand load cartridges manufacturers will designate if they are expanding or non expanding hollow points. The reason for non expanding is to make a longer bullet so more contact with the rifling. This gives more rotation and improves accuracy.
Expansion has been marketed as the holy grail of bullets. How much of the energy calculated from the chronograph is used to mushroom the bullet ? This is lost energy.
Now expansion can prevent a bullet exiting. If a bullet exits it takes energy with it. This would be lost energy.
So which is better ? Which yields more energy to an intended target ? Why is expansion better than an entrance & exit hole ?
Wad cutters both semi and full types have solid terminal performance. Truncated cone and other flat nose bullets have solid terminal performance.
👍👍 Thanks Dave, appreciate the test
Great intro brother, lol.
Thank you kindly
Thanks for the great vid. More test on the Shield Plus in 30 Super Carry, please?!😁
This is why when I do carry 380 I usually carry flat nose fmj.
Thanks for the test.
Hate to spam the comment section, but for a while (probably 2 years?) Underwood was loading 380 Golden Sabers in +P. Never saw anyone gel test it. I use Underwood 380+P XTPs. I've chrono'd them at 1030fps and 215fpe from my LCP Max (test uploaded on my channel)
I have tested the Underwood Golden Saber +p load. Out of the G42 into Clear Ballistics gel with 4 layers of denim it gets up to .60 inches of expansion and 12 inches of penetration. Velocity is about 100 fps faster than the Remington load. I've put one through the chest cavity of a young mule deer buck (recently expired) and found it completely expanded under the hide on the opposite side.
At the right velocity, the Golden Saber seems to be pretty dang good. An email campaign to Underwood might get them to start loading them again...?
@@erichanson7293 I almost bought some several times, but the sort of data you just provided was nowhere to be found, so i never did.
I have chatted with the owner of underwood a few times. If I remember i'll call him on monday and see what I can do.
@@Valorius I just checked some of my records. The Underwood XTP and their JHP 90 gr with the Dead Nuts bullet are very good performers also, especially the +p loads. (Testing .380 has been an obsession for the past couple years and I'm thrilled when anyone has data on .380 performance.) Underwood has the formula figured out and their XD and XP are also good.
Other really good HP projectiles are Federal Punch and Low Recoil Hydrashok. Defiant Munitions all copper HP is the best of the all HP copper bunch. All just one guy's opinion.
I would be interested to know how the G9 .380 load performs in organic gel.
Nice to see short barrel 380 tests , DDR thank you.
I have to carry +p in my max to have any confidence in its ability.
Underwood xtp is good but the jhp is a bit cheaper, or used to be; tools chrono’d it at 1100 from a max , I gel tested both and they did pretty much the same, both good.
I never got into the copper xd/xp because of cost per round .
Only the +p I’m referring to
@@emwaverthey are cheaper than XTP. A buddy of mine has had difficulty with them running in his G42 so he favors the XTP. I have not had that issue.
I carry 380 Federal 95 gr FMJ in my LCP Max for the reason shown above. You can load HP ammo in a 380 and once in a great while it might expand even. But most often it performs just like FMJ. And the very few JHP 380's that do expand, penetrate minimally even in gel. What about rib bones, arm bones? I think if I am going to continue to carry my LCP Max it will be with FMJ.
Your video posted today is on private ?
Sometimes I have to take them down until they finish processing my edits. Sorry for any confusion.
This is the comparison ive been looking for! These are both stellar rounds for carry. Thanks for this!
The Golden Saber did pretty well, considering that it technically failed. Partial expansion is better than no expansion, and 15 inches penetration is awesome.
Both trash loads. Get yourself some Underwood 380+P Xtreme Defenders and don’t look back. Spend the cash to put 100 minimum thru your shooter with zero problems and if successful you’re good to go.