That's the problem with many film critics: They don't realize any two people can look at a work of art and have completely different reactions. That's the big mystery of anything artistic, be it found in a museum or a cinema: Art is so incredibly subjective. Even though I acknowledge it was unique and well-directed, I thoroughly disliked Pulp Fiction. Since watching the movie, I have had only one substantial argument with an actor friend who loved the movie and that was if the movie was laid out chronologically, it wouldn't have a purpose but rather an episodic narrative. Beyond that argument, I realize my perception was simply my own -- not right or wrong -- and that's the nature of the beast. To attempt to criticize someone else's differing opinion as the two critics to Bonnie Greer are doing shows these two are unable or unwilling to see the subjectivity of art. I personally disagree with Ms. Greer but that's her perception and that's the way things are.
What is bizarre about this is that Hislop has a go at the films depiction of women yet himself and the interviewer spend the first few minutes interrupting the only woman on the couch and are almost giggling at her opinions.
They were all talking over each other. Greer talked over the others as much as any of them. I think it's all too easy to find discrimination when you're looking for it.
Yeah Ian Hislop's head-boy-of-the-prep-school moralistic stance makes him an excellent commentator on political affairs and holding politicians to account, but he is too much of a fuddy-duddy to be worth listening to on cinema. He is unquestionably very smart, but he would probably have preferred a night in reading Horace Walpole
Mark Kermode and the lady are the only decent critics here. The other two a prudish old men who should stick to Driving Miss Daisy and anything that isn't made for entertainment purposes. I don't even love Kill Bill, but those men give little reasoning for their distaste for the film all they say is that 'it's violent', 'it's boring', 'it's sexist'.
Mark Kermode is one of the best critics out there. Sure, he can be a traditionalist but he's pretty open minded and very discerning about oscar bait or 'critically acclaimed' movies. I could listen to him talk all day.
It is definitely violent, boring and lacking in any merit whatsoever as a narrative. Whether it's sexist is debatable, but I don't think it's an unfair point to describe it as sexist. It's simply a dreadful film that is essentially pornographic violence wrapped up in some completely uninteresting homage to films that Tarantino has seen when he was younger.
@@zacharycaruso2935 yes he is ian hislop his a sexist pig by interuppting the female critic. Hes also in the minority most critics including the great Roger Ebert gave this film a great review when it came out.
I don’t think that’s an example of sexism, I think that’s just someone’s self infatuation. The one person who has the alternative opinion of this film happens to be female, I think it’s easy enough to make that connection and then shallowly claim sexism. Isn’t identifying her as the female critic sexist anyway? I believe this was just different opinions on display and I see no evidence in this video to suggest that he wouldn’t act in the same way if it was a man in her place or if one of the other critics also had positive words for the film, as she did.
To be clear I didn’t enjoy his place in the discussion, this would’ve been much more interesting if it was just Bonnie Greer and Mark Kermode having a conversation and articulating their points.
Kermode and the Lady are the only decent critics here because their points are mature and open they are giving good opinions and criticism whereas Ian Hislop who is just being a total hater with no interesting points.
The Lady is defending rubbish out of a childish knee-jerk 'feminism' response ..-totally unconsidered in the cold light of reason ...I wonder if the same person would stand up and be counted so quickly now as a defender of 'Tarantino's brilliance' ..in the light of revelations of personal views regarding roman polanski...and harvey weinstein ...i think we already know the answer to that ...
Hislop and the moderator/host are fools, I wish Kermode and Bonnie could have had an intelligent, calm discussion without those two butting in every 5 seconds.
I'm not really one to accuse people of these kind of things but the way they (not including Kermode) patronised Bonnie seemed quite offensive, they were laughing at her.
I wouldn't be so quick to Hislop a fool considering the intellectual heavyweight that he is. Yes, he's talking out of his backside here and is patronizing demeanour does him no favours but he's highly intelligent, witty as can be evidenced from his long presence as a panellist on Have I Got News For You, and very sharp and insightful when it comes to politics. He could intellectually run circles around most people including myself.
Really? Because last time I looked he was an Oxford educated journalist, political satirist, writer, broadcaster and editor. I think that more than qualifies him. That doesn't make him right about everything, no one is but never the less.
Although I disagree with Bonnie Greer mostly about the movie I do however find Ian Bishop and the interview to be kind of rude to interrupt Bonnie almost every time .
Mark and Bonnie are having a genuinely interesting conversation about the merits, the flaws and the politics of the film, but Hislop I can live without. He's clearly genrephobic.
It's a thrash and slash movie. The genius of this movie is not in its story or dialogue. What makes this an excellent movie is the directing, production, and the passion in the fight scenes. The care and deliberate choreography that went into every scene shows how much Tarantino loves the samurai film genre.
Go Bonnie - until I saw this movie, I had no idea this genre of cinema existed. It's fresh visceral and visually stunning, not everyones cup of tea but in this genre of cinema it's a masterpiece. If you don't like it then you probably don't like martial arts movies, which is fine.
I agree with all the points they make, the problem with Kill Bill is that it was cut into two films - one is excessive action with no character development, while the other is playing catch-up and can seem a little bit rambling, even dragged out. So Instead of having one good 3 hour edit. We got two unfocused 2 hour films.
"It's all surface when he's proven that what he can do is depth" I don't really think any of his films, even the good ones, had much depth other than Jackie Brown. All the characters were two-dimensional in RD and PF but the films still worked and were well written in a way that his post-Kill Bill output hasn't been, probably because he had a co-writer for both of them.
+GiantSandles He had more than a co-writer for his early work. He pretty much stole Roger Avary's work and then tried to pay him off with a co-writer credit.
Chris C I don't know I think it's pretty clear he had a big impact on it just from the dialogue, it's the exact same style. Plus the main character in True Romance is basically Quentin
Inglourious Basterds, The Hateful Eight, and even Django Unchained had a fair amount of depth to it. His movies do actually have a lot of smartly written characters and nuanced scenes if you are willing to study them. His "look at me, I'm making crazy movies based off other crazy movies from my childhood!" persona has always been somewhat deceiving.
Luke Ellis Well everyone has opinions indeed but there are those who believe themselves to be critics(probably everyone on the internet) and those who truly are critics who have knowledge about film and its meanings.
Tarantino pulls off the same bullshit with every one of his films. Everything he's made other than Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown has been all surface and no depth. The moral simplicity of Kill Bill is infuriates me. It's a pantomime, period and the fact that some people are actually calling it a "masterpiece" is simply baffling to me.
I know. I really enjoyed Jackie Brown and Reservoir Dogs, but the rest were predictable and somewhat politically incorrect. Inglorious Basterds was fun, but all over the place.
+Nameless Paladin you can't possibly say Pulp Fiction has no depth. Only someone who is too stupid to understand the character's stories and morals in that movie will say something like that. You probably thought it was only about "royale with cheeses"
I disagree. I thin reservoir dogs is one of his most shallow films.. do you really care about the characters in that film? it's also very talky and boring
@Transformers2themax I recently wrote a very favourable review of Drive for my student newspaper. Should I have not done so? Is my opinion of the film invalid?
I sometimes feel like I'm the only in the world who understands how good this film was. I only realised how good it was at my second viewing which was 5 years after my first. This would be QT's best if Pulp Fiction didn't have such an amazing script. I completely agree with that woman.
@aerialkate Have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange? Everything that happens prior to Alex's incarceration is designed to be as morally reprehensible as possible, to make the films major question (Alex is clearly a monster, but does that justify what is done to him? Is it better to force somebody to be good than to allow them to be a monster? Is the removal of free will a price worth paying?) as troubling as possible. (Run out of room, I'll carry on in a separate post)
Kermode is a great reviewer, he gets what Tarantino was trying to do, he just thinks the film isn't good. Disagreeing doesn't mean he didn't watch or 'absorb' it
the violence is to cartoony? ya thats the fucking point. when lucy lu cuts that guys head off and blood starts spraying like a damn sprinkler, i dont think quentin was going for a realistic look there. the violence is so fun in this movie, it almost makes me laugh. when uma is spinning around on the floor, slicing there legs and holding a grown man up by her sword, thats where you get laughs from people who enjoy it. obviously these guys did not. but th movie doesnt suck like they said.
The Emperor's New Clothes is one of a number of stories in a book written by the Danish writer Hans Christen Anderson. The book was turned into a Film which starred Danny Kaye as Hans Christain Anderson. In the film the title of the story was altered to 'The King's New Clothes'. The film was a hugh success and I think the story is now more often refferred to as, 'The King's New Clothes'. However, I would agree that the use of either title would be correct:)
i think these two guys have never seen an easterns film in their lives. now as a guy who grew up watching Spaghetti westerns, Kung Fu films and Samurai movies, Kill Bill is a dream come true to me, it's like if I ever had to make a movie Kill Bill would be the movie that I would make
@Withnail both aren't genre filmmakers, Kill Bill is a genre movie a mishmash of genres and elements. Kermode is a typical pretentious film viewer, Kurosawa and Ozu are like the two most obvious choices for a film nerd to state as his favourites when it comes to Japenese or Asian cinema (I'm pretty sure he thinks WKW is the best HK movie maker ever) both are artistically very acclaimed. If you were to watch and enjoy Kill Bill then your favourites would be something like Seijun Suzuki, Takashi Miike, Hideo Gosha...etc. I'm pretty sure If you were to ask him about French Cinema for example he'd tell you Godard or Truffaut are his favourites. He does that to stay relevant as a film critic.
@Withnail Waw even better. Maybe Jacques Rivette too and probably Robert Bresson? Lol and when it comes to Italian cinema it's Bertollucci and Fellini with Leone being a Kurosawa rip off because he made those popular films that are loved by the masses.
@@tylerdordon99 Eh, Kermode actually is pretty anti-Godard. Go and watch his review of Film Socialisme if you want to see, or just fancy a laugh. He's a massive fan of horror movies, famously banging the drum for the Exorcist as the greatest film of all time, so your accusations of snobbery are pretty misplaced.
@@FrogSkull you can't take a joke can you? I mentioned Godard as a joke because in the context of my comment he was the same knee jerk choice for French cinema conoisseurs (I hate his guts btw both as a person and filmmaker) and I'm pretty familiar with Kermode's love for Horror he speaks about that fact only every 5 minutes. You want me to prove it he also thinks the Devils is one of the best movies ever (I don't consider it a horror movie myself but whatever).
@Transformers2themax The last point was one of the most hilarious, blinkered and stupid things I've ever heard anyone say. I don't even know where to begin with it... Kermode clearly states that he loved Tarantino's previous films but that he found Kill Bill lacking, and I have to say I agree with him. The fact that he and I are both british is totally irrelevant, it's not a case of not 'getting' it, and people should be allowed to review whatever damn movie they want to.
I've never been a big fan of Hislop but couldn't figure out why. This video has helped me figure out that he is a person who feels his opinion is always most important and he must dominate a room and any conversation he is a part of. There's this weird feeling that comes from his constant insistence that he's against sexism too. He reminds me of the political or religious leaders who constantly condemn homosexuality, only to be outed via committing a crime years down the line.
I think Tarantino makes exactly the film he wants to make. He is a magpie with an incredible knowledge of movie history. This was about 1970s martial arts movies, I hate them and this. Don't get me wrong I love some martial arts films just not these ones.
The Kill Bill movies are actually the movies I hate the most....don't really know why, there's just something about them that makes me boil whenever I think about them...
that is reasonable. if you paid money to see them it is natural for you to be boiling mad about it. it is a moronic slasher film with the plot depth of a porn film, except porn films are more interesting, by a high school drop out with a personality disorder associated with violent sadism. i didn't pay to see these movies, but i too felt angry that it robbed me of the time i spent looking at it. perfectly reasonable response.
@Logicopositivi He's certainly more whiny, but I think Hislop is still making a fair point about the perviness of turning women's suffering into a spectacle.
the woman is the smartest Of them, she absolutely gets IT. the others waitung for a cup Of Tea and pad themselve on the shoulders how good Of a critic they are.
Richard Brighton Yes there's always that. Went to see Transformers 4 on Saturday with a friend who wanted to see it. Good god it was boring and wayyyyy to long.
If you like Pulp Fiction then how can you not like Kill Bill? When I first watched Kill Bill I loved the Bride because she was a badass killing machine out for revenge. Of course the movie was more style than substance, so was Pulp Fiction! Though neither of those films are in Tarantino's top 3, I still love them.
+LoN3wOlF5tudi0s I loved Reservoir Dogs, I loved Pulp Fiction. And I hated both Kill Bill movies. Maybe it's a British thing to have that opinion. I agree with my fellow British critics on this video.
Guerilla Hustle Calling people names, oh how tough of you. Go and watch rubbish Tarantino films if you like, there's far more subtext to a nerdy fanboy who likes exploitative female characters than I think you realise.
Hislop is amongst the most vociferous opponents holding any UK government to public account for over 3 or 4 decades.. a true patriot who looks to improve England, not wave flags. A man of considerable learning and intellect, not to mention self-effacing humour. A man who can stand for what is right, and yet question himself on what is right. Sure.. but you comment on his chin.
@@TheKamikazenaz I'm not going to dispute any of that. But he can still be patronising and snarky, which he is. I don't find him very likeable at all tbh.
@feldmanspotatoes : Her's was the last opinion expressed, and it was led in by two critics who thought the film was an attack on feminist views. I hate to make it a "you either get it or you don't" argument because every single Tarantino movie sets it up so well. I was commending her not for being a woman, but for being able to explain, amongst the cackling and snide one-offs, why she and many others enjoyed the film. Kermode didn't enjoy it for his reasons, and we enjoy KB immensely for hers.
I felt like watching the two films was an endurance test, I was glad when it was over, I have little memory of character or plot, I won't watch either film again anytime soon
@aerialkate Wow, a third post... The point to which I first responded still stands, that Tarantino is not the only, or even the first, director to portray rape as it should be shown: absolutely horrifying and repugnant. In fact, if he even did so, it was probably by accident.
One of the biggest problems with this film is the fact that everything that comes out of Uma Thurman's mouth sounds too agreeable. She doesn't have the hardened, forceful spirit she needs for a gritty and muscular revenge tale.
Mark K, you should be aware that no film characters have ever been three dimentional. There isn't the TIME! You won't even see a two dimentional character.
@aerialkate It was more the soothing, teeth grindingly patronising way that you put it. What I objected to most was just how off topic this has become. My original point still stands, that Tarantino is actually more exploitative of violence towards women than the average film director.
Kill Bill was fairly middling, though it was refreshing to see women in those sorts of hyper-violent action roles (putting aside if you enjoy hyper-violence at all.)
I am surprised how much I agree with Kermode in both hus critique and the praise of this film. I too thought the head smashing scene was great but that the movie itself is incoherent and cartoony.
@MrMarcusirish I do agree with Kermode on the fact that "Jackie Brown" showed Tarantino to have potential to write lifelike characters with some depth, though. Certain is that he only has to blame himself if, in his later films, he went back to his rip-off artist job and serving the most undiscerning (and ignorant) fringes of his large audience.
Bobishere not at film reviews, he should stick to private eye. He has nothing to say about the film other than he hated it, mainly for things that it doesnt even do and he woefully misinterpreted. I didn't like Kill Bill in the slightest, Tarentino's worst alongside Deathproof but still Kermode knows what he's talking about.
I don't get why you wouldn't enjoy watching that film. It's spectacular. I love kermode but he has such a distain towards tarantino. Not every film has to be a believable drama with a flawless narrative. Sometimes you just want to watch something thrilling.
+Scruffy P That's because Tarantino makes sub-par video-nasty type schlock fare that is for some reason praised. He's a distinctly average film maker that has thankfully been found out with more recent crap.
Tarantino with every successive movie looks weaker and weaker ...and more like a Thief of other peoples original ideas which worked a lot better in their original context ..how ironic ! ...The "Django" movie was obviously a Government-driven propaganda piece .... and "once upon a time in hollywood" was a girlish-soap opera from someone with a very disturbed mind ..(NOT a work of Genius..as some deluded fanatics have tried to claim) Lol ...the next movie from this "Legend in its own brain" will be one to watch ..-I am betting it will be so bad (poor) that its unbelievable ....
I agree with Mark's criticisms. I think they are more intelligent than Ian's. I like Bonnie Greer, but clearly she found the film more enjoyable than me
I agree, tarantino put alot of depth into the characters in reservoir dogs, displaying conficting attitudes and morals in keitel and roths characters mainly, although the ending and other parts have been influenced heavily by City On Fire, the Ringo Lam film. I still love reservoir dogs though.
@MrKeepitunderyourhat - Believe me I take no joy whatsoever in having to argue with you. In fact I find it utterly depressing that I have to. I've simply noticed that young men in particular often champion what they perceive as 'edgy' directors and assume anyone who finds them repellent must go home and watch 'The Sound of Music' each night. It's just such a shame to me that 'edgy' all too often means 'fucking sad exploitation of sexual violence against women'.
![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
Mark might have disagreed with the woman, but at least he wasn't interrupting her every five seconds like the other two.
That's the problem with many film critics: They don't realize any two people can look at a work of art and have completely different reactions. That's the big mystery of anything artistic, be it found in a museum or a cinema: Art is so incredibly subjective.
Even though I acknowledge it was unique and well-directed, I thoroughly disliked Pulp Fiction. Since watching the movie, I have had only one substantial argument with an actor friend who loved the movie and that was if the movie was laid out chronologically, it wouldn't have a purpose but rather an episodic narrative. Beyond that argument, I realize my perception was simply my own -- not right or wrong -- and that's the nature of the beast. To attempt to criticize someone else's differing opinion as the two critics to Bonnie Greer are doing shows these two are unable or unwilling to see the subjectivity of art. I personally disagree with Ms. Greer but that's her perception and that's the way things are.
Exactly, and the self-professed feminist can’t stfu while she’s talking
@@jam-trousers were they interrupting her because they disagreed with her, or because she was a woman?
@@urbanwarrior3470 They interrupted her because they are British. Have you seen their parliament in action?
@@Dirkschneider as opposed to whose parliament...?
What is bizarre about this is that Hislop has a go at the films depiction of women yet himself and the interviewer spend the first few minutes interrupting the only woman on the couch and are almost giggling at her opinions.
exactly.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. Horrendously disrespectful and she was more on the ball than them two.
that's because her opinions were pompous and ridiculous, and she shouldn't get a free pass by virtue of being female.
They were all talking over each other. Greer talked over the others as much as any of them. I think it's all too easy to find discrimination when you're looking for it.
@@chrisjames1905 free pass? how about just respecting other people?
I could quite happily watch Bonnie Greer and Kermode debate movies for a whole show. We can lose the other two.
Yeah Ian Hislop's head-boy-of-the-prep-school moralistic stance makes him an excellent commentator on political affairs and holding politicians to account, but he is too much of a fuddy-duddy to be worth listening to on cinema. He is unquestionably very smart, but he would probably have preferred a night in reading Horace Walpole
Mark Kermode and the lady are the only decent critics here. The other two a prudish old men who should stick to Driving Miss Daisy and anything that isn't made for entertainment purposes. I don't even love Kill Bill, but those men give little reasoning for their distaste for the film all they say is that 'it's violent', 'it's boring', 'it's sexist'.
Paperbagman555 Mark Kermode is a big fan of video nasties and his favourite film is The Exorcist.
Mark Kermode is one of the best critics out there. Sure, he can be a traditionalist but he's pretty open minded and very discerning about oscar bait or 'critically acclaimed' movies. I could listen to him talk all day.
to be fair "Kill Bill" is boring , rubbish, pretentious and generally a very crappy movie .....
It is definitely violent, boring and lacking in any merit whatsoever as a narrative. Whether it's sexist is debatable, but I don't think it's an unfair point to describe it as sexist. It's simply a dreadful film that is essentially pornographic violence wrapped up in some completely uninteresting homage to films that Tarantino has seen when he was younger.
'the lady'
Ian Hislop: This film is terribly sexist.
Also Ian Hislop: Constantly interrupting the female critic and being incredibly condescending to her
you're not making the point you think you're making.
@@zacharycaruso2935 yes he is ian hislop his a sexist pig by interuppting the female critic. Hes also in the minority most critics including the great Roger Ebert gave this film a great review when it came out.
@@65g4 LOL
I don’t think that’s an example of sexism, I think that’s just someone’s self infatuation. The one person who has the alternative opinion of this film happens to be female, I think it’s easy enough to make that connection and then shallowly claim sexism. Isn’t identifying her as the female critic sexist anyway? I believe this was just different opinions on display and I see no evidence in this video to suggest that he wouldn’t act in the same way if it was a man in her place or if one of the other critics also had positive words for the film, as she did.
To be clear I didn’t enjoy his place in the discussion, this would’ve been much more interesting if it was just Bonnie Greer and Mark Kermode having a conversation and articulating their points.
Kermode and the Lady are the only decent critics here because their points are mature and open they are giving good opinions and criticism whereas Ian Hislop who is just being a total hater with no interesting points.
i thought this was interesting !
The Lady is defending rubbish out of a childish knee-jerk 'feminism' response ..-totally unconsidered in the cold light of reason ...I wonder if the same person would stand up and be counted so quickly now as a defender of 'Tarantino's brilliance' ..in the light of revelations of personal views regarding roman polanski...and harvey weinstein ...i think we already know the answer to that ...
'the lady'
Mark Kermode was a writer for Fangoria....a huge horror magazine. He gives credit to proper horror films, even the ones that other critics cringe at.
Hislop and the moderator/host are fools, I wish Kermode and Bonnie could have had an intelligent, calm discussion without those two butting in every 5 seconds.
I'm not really one to accuse people of these kind of things but the way they (not including Kermode) patronised Bonnie seemed quite offensive, they were laughing at her.
I wouldn't be so quick to Hislop a fool considering the intellectual heavyweight that he is. Yes, he's talking out of his backside here and is patronizing demeanour does him no favours but he's highly intelligent, witty as can be evidenced from his long presence as a panellist on Have I Got News For You, and very sharp and insightful when it comes to politics. He could intellectually run circles around most people including myself.
He's no intellectual heavyweight.
Really? Because last time I looked he was an Oxford educated journalist, political satirist, writer, broadcaster and editor. I think that more than qualifies him. That doesn't make him right about everything, no one is but never the less.
Amen
Hislop is a jerk in this
HISLOP IS A JERK IN ANYTHING
Although I disagree with Bonnie Greer mostly about the movie I do however find Ian Bishop and the interview to be kind of rude to interrupt Bonnie almost every time
.
Who is the woman? I loved the way she handled herself.
Bonnie Greer, I think she's a playwright
And yeah, she did great. Very composed. Hislop made a total tit of himself
i found her embarassing to watch supporting a slasher film with the plot depth of a porn film
@@nonebusiness4488 not every film needs to be deep, what's wrong with visceral
Bonnie Greer.. not seen her on telly recently, I think she may still have a column. A very intelligent and kind person.
Lol, interrupts the woman the second she begins to speak
Bonnie Greer is obviously the only one with a bit of fucking sense there
Adam Edgeworth Um, no.
No she's lost the plot.
Mark and Bonnie are having a genuinely interesting conversation about the merits, the flaws and the politics of the film, but Hislop I can live without. He's clearly genrephobic.
You go Bonnie!!
It's a thrash and slash movie. The genius of this movie is not in its story or dialogue. What makes this an excellent movie is the directing, production, and the passion in the fight scenes. The care and deliberate choreography that went into every scene shows how much Tarantino loves the samurai film genre.
Go Bonnie - until I saw this movie, I had no idea this genre of cinema existed. It's fresh visceral and visually stunning, not everyones cup of tea but in this genre of cinema it's a masterpiece. If you don't like it then you probably don't like martial arts movies, which is fine.
The martial arts in this movie suck. I am a martial arts movie fan, and have a huge collection. The choreography is good, but the execution is awful.
I agree with all the points they make, the problem with Kill Bill is that it was cut into two films - one is excessive action with no character development, while the other is playing catch-up and can seem a little bit rambling, even dragged out. So Instead of having one good 3 hour edit. We got two unfocused 2 hour films.
This is what happens when you have too many guests on the show.
"It's all surface when he's proven that what he can do is depth"
I don't really think any of his films, even the good ones, had much depth other than Jackie Brown. All the characters were two-dimensional in RD and PF but the films still worked and were well written in a way that his post-Kill Bill output hasn't been, probably because he had a co-writer for both of them.
+GiantSandles He had more than a co-writer for his early work. He pretty much stole Roger Avary's work and then tried to pay him off with a co-writer credit.
Chris C I don't know I think it's pretty clear he had a big impact on it just from the dialogue, it's the exact same style. Plus the main character in True Romance is basically Quentin
Inglourious Basterds, The Hateful Eight, and even Django Unchained had a fair amount of depth to it. His movies do actually have a lot of smartly written characters and nuanced scenes if you are willing to study them. His "look at me, I'm making crazy movies based off other crazy movies from my childhood!" persona has always been somewhat deceiving.
Alan Smithee - True but nothing he's done has compared to anything before Kill Bill and Kill Bill was where his own work started.
Ingourlous Basterds is his best-written work by far. It's teeming with subtext
Hislop? Is no film critic.
Everyones a critic.
Luke Ellis
Well everyone has opinions indeed but there are those who believe themselves to be critics(probably everyone on the internet) and those who truly are critics who have knowledge about film and its meanings.
Tarantino pulls off the same bullshit with every one of his films. Everything he's made other than Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown has been all surface and no depth. The moral simplicity of Kill Bill is infuriates me. It's a pantomime, period and the fact that some people are actually calling it a "masterpiece" is simply baffling to me.
I know. I really enjoyed Jackie Brown and Reservoir Dogs, but the rest were predictable and somewhat politically incorrect. Inglorious Basterds was fun, but all over the place.
It's interesting simply from a technical standpoint. That is all.
+Nameless Paladin Most overrated director in Hollywood. Keeps making the same trash and being praised for it.
+Nameless Paladin you can't possibly say Pulp Fiction has no depth. Only someone who is too stupid to understand the character's stories and morals in that movie will say something like that. You probably thought it was only about "royale with cheeses"
I disagree. I thin reservoir dogs is one of his most shallow films.. do you really care about the characters in that film? it's also very talky and boring
It was intended to be two-dimentional. The characterisations and depth are given in pt. 2.
Bonnie Greer is obviously the bigger cinema fan and a hundred times smarter than her cohosts.
I prefer part two. I also wouldn’t mind seeing a hack job of both films edited together to 90 mins.
What a relief to hear that the woman on the panel was the only person who "got" the movie !!!
I genuinely think there are suspect reasons for people being so offended in such a broad way as Ian hislop is.
Yes. He is a dirty, pathetic perv.
@Transformers2themax I recently wrote a very favourable review of Drive for my student newspaper. Should I have not done so? Is my opinion of the film invalid?
Kill Bill is meant to be the kind of B-Movie Cinema that characters from Reservoir Dogs would watch and talk about.
Lady Snowblood meets Game Of Death
Part 2 was very good
The two men on the left do my head in
I sometimes feel like I'm the only in the world who understands how good this film was. I only realised how good it was at my second viewing which was 5 years after my first. This would be QT's best if Pulp Fiction didn't have such an amazing script.
I completely agree with that woman.
@aerialkate Have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange? Everything that happens prior to Alex's incarceration is designed to be as morally reprehensible as possible, to make the films major question (Alex is clearly a monster, but does that justify what is done to him? Is it better to force somebody to be good than to allow them to be a monster? Is the removal of free will a price worth paying?) as troubling as possible. (Run out of room, I'll carry on in a separate post)
Go Bonnie! She's the ONLY one in this clip actually WATCHED and ABSORBED the film.
In what sense?
Mr. Veteran She drowned.
Kermode is a great reviewer, he gets what Tarantino was trying to do, he just thinks the film isn't good. Disagreeing doesn't mean he didn't watch or 'absorb' it
the violence is to cartoony? ya thats the fucking point. when lucy lu cuts that guys head off and blood starts spraying like a damn sprinkler, i dont think quentin was going for a realistic look there. the violence is so fun in this movie, it almost makes me laugh. when uma is spinning around on the floor, slicing there legs and holding a grown man up by her sword, thats where you get laughs from people who enjoy it. obviously these guys did not. but th movie doesnt suck like they said.
Kill Bill is a masterpiece and one of the best Tarantino's films. Fully agree with Bonnie Greer.
Why's a women suffering worse then a mans
The Emperor's New Clothes is one of a number of stories in a book written by the Danish writer Hans Christen Anderson. The book was turned into a Film which starred Danny Kaye as Hans Christain Anderson. In the film the title of the story was altered to 'The King's New Clothes'. The film was a hugh success and I think the story is now more often refferred to as, 'The King's New Clothes'. However, I would agree that the use of either title would be correct:)
i think these two guys have never seen an easterns film in their lives. now as a guy who grew up watching Spaghetti westerns, Kung Fu films and Samurai movies, Kill Bill is a dream come true to me, it's like if I ever had to make a movie Kill Bill would be the movie that I would make
@Withnail both aren't genre filmmakers, Kill Bill is a genre movie a mishmash of genres and elements.
Kermode is a typical pretentious film viewer, Kurosawa and Ozu are like the two most obvious choices for a film nerd to state as his favourites when it comes to Japenese or Asian cinema (I'm pretty sure he thinks WKW is the best HK movie maker ever) both are artistically very acclaimed. If you were to watch and enjoy Kill Bill then your favourites would be something like Seijun Suzuki, Takashi Miike, Hideo Gosha...etc. I'm pretty sure If you were to ask him about French Cinema for example he'd tell you Godard or Truffaut are his favourites. He does that to stay relevant as a film critic.
@Withnail Waw even better. Maybe Jacques Rivette too and probably Robert Bresson? Lol and when it comes to Italian cinema it's Bertollucci and Fellini with Leone being a Kurosawa rip off because he made those popular films that are loved by the masses.
@@tylerdordon99 Eh, Kermode actually is pretty anti-Godard. Go and watch his review of Film Socialisme if you want to see, or just fancy a laugh. He's a massive fan of horror movies, famously banging the drum for the Exorcist as the greatest film of all time, so your accusations of snobbery are pretty misplaced.
@@FrogSkull you can't take a joke can you? I mentioned Godard as a joke because in the context of my comment he was the same knee jerk choice for French cinema conoisseurs (I hate his guts btw both as a person and filmmaker) and I'm pretty familiar with Kermode's love for Horror he speaks about that fact only every 5 minutes. You want me to prove it he also thinks the Devils is one of the best movies ever (I don't consider it a horror movie myself but whatever).
@@tylerdordon99 Hey, I'm not try'na fight. I'm just saying that his dislike for Kill Bill doesn't come from snobbery as you appeared to be suggesting.
@Transformers2themax The last point was one of the most hilarious, blinkered and stupid things I've ever heard anyone say. I don't even know where to begin with it... Kermode clearly states that he loved Tarantino's previous films but that he found Kill Bill lacking, and I have to say I agree with him. The fact that he and I are both british is totally irrelevant, it's not a case of not 'getting' it, and people should be allowed to review whatever damn movie they want to.
I've never been a big fan of Hislop but couldn't figure out why. This video has helped me figure out that he is a person who feels his opinion is always most important and he must dominate a room and any conversation he is a part of.
There's this weird feeling that comes from his constant insistence that he's against sexism too. He reminds me of the political or religious leaders who constantly condemn homosexuality, only to be outed via committing a crime years down the line.
Ian Hislop is bound to have skeletons in his closet.
I think Tarantino makes exactly the film he wants to make. He is a magpie with an incredible knowledge of movie history. This was about 1970s martial arts movies, I hate them and this. Don't get me wrong I love some martial arts films just not these ones.
The Kill Bill movies are actually the movies I hate the most....don't really know why, there's just something about them that makes me boil whenever I think about them...
Because you have bad taste stfu
+Olle Rönn It's because they're crap, no further explanation needed.
+KRSsven there better than reservoir dogs
that is reasonable. if you paid money to see them it is natural for you to be boiling mad about it. it is a moronic slasher film with the plot depth of a porn film, except porn films are more interesting, by a high school drop out with a personality disorder associated with violent sadism. i didn't pay to see these movies, but i too felt angry that it robbed me of the time i spent looking at it. perfectly reasonable response.
This is exactly the kind of thing Stephen Fry put into Room 101
@Joeboy2393 Cite what you can from BG (referencing it accordingly to avoid plagiarism!) and then complete it with your own words to get the kudos :)
@Logicopositivi
He's certainly more whiny, but I think Hislop is still making a fair point about the perviness of turning women's suffering into a spectacle.
Comic book? Alan Moore was crying the exact moment he said that
Technically it's brilliant. They take it far too seriously, it is a comic book as a film.
I prefer Part 1 over Part 2.
the woman is the smartest Of them, she absolutely gets IT. the others waitung for a cup Of Tea and pad themselve on the shoulders how good Of a critic they are.
Kill Bill is pure cinema.
Oh Bonnie!! Playing the Devils advocate just for the sake of it isn't always a good idea.
what some people don't understand... Tarantino films, are ENTERTAINING... I saw this four times at the cinema.... mostly ... for the sound only...
I thought it was so dull.
Sluggish Throne watch it again, with the sound turned up...
Richard Brighton I know it has a good soundtrack, but that's not enough. It was all style and no content.
Sluggish Throne fair enough.... at least he isn't Michael Bay?....
Richard Brighton Yes there's always that. Went to see Transformers 4 on Saturday with a friend who wanted to see it. Good god it was boring and wayyyyy to long.
If you like Pulp Fiction then how can you not like Kill Bill? When I first watched Kill Bill I loved the Bride because she was a badass killing machine out for revenge. Of course the movie was more style than substance, so was Pulp Fiction! Though neither of those films are in Tarantino's top 3, I still love them.
+LoN3wOlF5tudi0s I loved Reservoir Dogs, I loved Pulp Fiction. And I hated both Kill Bill movies. Maybe it's a British thing to have that opinion. I agree with my fellow British critics on this video.
+LoN3wOlF5tudi0s Because Pulp Fiction was good, and Kill Bill was not.
+Andy JS I'm British and also see Kill Bill for what it is - exploitative nonsense.
KRSsven Seriously? Why do you think Kill Bill isn't good?
Guerilla Hustle Calling people names, oh how tough of you. Go and watch rubbish Tarantino films if you like, there's far more subtext to a nerdy fanboy who likes exploitative female characters than I think you realise.
By the way, I'm going to bed now. Or to watch 'Bambi' or something. I might post again tomorrow, if I can be arsed.
'We don't have to see another one do we'.
His turkey like double chin makes him even more patronizing some how.
Hislop is amongst the most vociferous opponents holding any UK government to public account for over 3 or 4 decades.. a true patriot who looks to improve England, not wave flags. A man of considerable learning and intellect, not to mention self-effacing humour. A man who can stand for what is right, and yet question himself on what is right.
Sure.. but you comment on his chin.
@@TheKamikazenaz I'm not going to dispute any of that. But he can still be patronising and snarky, which he is. I don't find him very likeable at all tbh.
As a movie watcher, would I be happy to have Ian Hislop a my film critique?
@feldmanspotatoes : Her's was the last opinion expressed, and it was led in by two critics who thought the film was an attack on feminist views. I hate to make it a "you either get it or you don't" argument because every single Tarantino movie sets it up so well. I was commending her not for being a woman, but for being able to explain, amongst the cackling and snide one-offs, why she and many others enjoyed the film. Kermode didn't enjoy it for his reasons, and we enjoy KB immensely for hers.
I felt like watching the two films was an endurance test, I was glad when it was over, I have little memory of character or plot, I won't watch either film again anytime soon
The Man With No Name might be referring to the trilogy, also known as the Dollars trilogy.
Kill Bill is a drive-in movie, not a Bergman film. Doubt Hislop ever took a date to the drive-in.
@aerialkate Wow, a third post... The point to which I first responded still stands, that Tarantino is not the only, or even the first, director to portray rape as it should be shown: absolutely horrifying and repugnant. In fact, if he even did so, it was probably by accident.
My favourite film ever.
it sucks that looking up ebert kill bill only gives this and a review of 2 not 1
One of the biggest problems with this film is the fact that everything that comes out of Uma Thurman's mouth sounds too agreeable. She doesn't have the hardened, forceful spirit she needs for a gritty and muscular revenge tale.
Mark K, you should be aware that no film characters have ever been three dimentional. There isn't the TIME! You won't even see a two dimentional character.
very immature film, basically a teenage boys wet dream
yeah...
Immaturity doesn't make it bad
What that guy says at 4:40 is sooo funny
Good debate, I like it!
Bonnie Greer and Mark Kermode are legends, Ian Hislop is just vile though.
kill bill vol.1: 7/10
kill bill vol.2: 9/10
@aerialkate It was more the soothing, teeth grindingly patronising way that you put it. What I objected to most was just how off topic this has become. My original point still stands, that Tarantino is actually more exploitative of violence towards women than the average film director.
I didn’t really like the film, but Bonnie made a good point
Kill Bill was fairly middling, though it was refreshing to see women in those sorts of hyper-violent action roles (putting aside if you enjoy hyper-violence at all.)
Just became a fan of Bonnie Greer. Will have to look up her other reviews.
i think she disappeared after constantly telling us that there would never be a black president.
I totally agree with all Mark says here and elsewhere about Tarantino and his work.
Ian hislop try’s to act like a feminist, and getting it completely wrong (I really don’t like kill bill vol 1 but he’s insane)
I am surprised how much I agree with Kermode in both hus critique and the praise of this film. I too thought the head smashing scene was great but that the movie itself is incoherent and cartoony.
@MrMarcusirish I do agree with Kermode on the fact that "Jackie Brown" showed Tarantino to have potential to write lifelike characters with some depth, though.
Certain is that he only has to blame himself if, in his later films, he went back to his rip-off artist job and serving the most undiscerning (and ignorant) fringes of his large audience.
Bonnie Greer has since given up taking LSD and is doing much better.
Bonnie Greer hasn't apparently seen any action/revenge movies with female protagonists.
Uma Thurman is Clint Eastwood in that film? Guess I better saw my own head off right now.
Mark Kermode reviews the film he wants to see, not what he is seeing.
Hislop's Awesome!
Bobishere not at film reviews, he should stick to private eye. He has nothing to say about the film other than he hated it, mainly for things that it doesnt even do and he woefully misinterpreted. I didn't like Kill Bill in the slightest, Tarentino's worst alongside Deathproof but still Kermode knows what he's talking about.
Id never seen Hislop review a movie before but he is quite good to be fair .. Quentin Tarantino is the pits ....
I don't get why you wouldn't enjoy watching that film. It's spectacular. I love kermode but he has such a distain towards tarantino. Not every film has to be a believable drama with a flawless narrative. Sometimes you just want to watch something thrilling.
+Scruffy P That's because Tarantino makes sub-par video-nasty type schlock fare that is for some reason praised. He's a distinctly average film maker that has thankfully been found out with more recent crap.
@@KRSsven I know ur comment is years old but I’d watch django. Amazing film with amazing acting/story
Tarantino with every successive movie looks weaker and weaker ...and more like a Thief of other peoples original ideas which worked a lot better in their original context ..how ironic ! ...The "Django" movie was obviously a Government-driven propaganda piece .... and "once upon a time in hollywood" was a girlish-soap opera from someone with a very disturbed mind ..(NOT a work of Genius..as some deluded fanatics have tried to claim) Lol ...the next movie from this "Legend in its own brain" will be one to watch ..-I am betting it will be so bad (poor) that its unbelievable ....
As a woman I can only apologize for Bonny. She doesn't represent us all.
I agree with Bonnie, I thought it was a feminist movie never got the impression that Tarantino was against the women.
True its almost like he's trying to be too cliché, doesnt sound like a tarantino film at all
@ukulazy
To me Kill Bill felt very dry and the different styles Tarantino attempted didn't come together but felt too separate.
I agree with Mark's criticisms. I think they are more intelligent than Ian's. I like Bonnie Greer, but clearly she found the film more enjoyable than me
If this is a feminist movie, I guess so is I Spit on Your Grave. Cool!
@hippotoast That is actually an interesting question.
I agree, tarantino put alot of depth into the characters in reservoir dogs, displaying conficting attitudes and morals in keitel and roths characters mainly, although the ending and other parts have been influenced heavily by City On Fire, the Ringo Lam film. I still love reservoir dogs though.
@MrKeepitunderyourhat - Believe me I take no joy whatsoever in having to argue with you. In fact I find it utterly depressing that I have to. I've simply noticed that young men in particular often champion what they perceive as 'edgy' directors and assume anyone who finds them repellent must go home and watch 'The Sound of Music' each night. It's just such a shame to me that 'edgy' all too often means 'fucking sad exploitation of sexual violence against women'.
Agreed! If I strike a feminine pose, I'm gay or transexual.
@falcao1982 But are there any really?
GREER KNOWS WHAT SHES TALKING ABOUT
The bride's hit list should extend to those who hate this movie
😂😂😂😂
Yes