In my area we call them "Dead ends". I personally only do them if I know I will have a Neutral coming to the box later. Cause code. Great videos! Learning new terms and refreshing my brain.
@@df4196 That's typically how I'll run them. Either 14 or 12/3. Never done it but an idea I've had is running 12 or 14/4 (14/2/2) for 3-way systems but now with Caseta switches, running wires for 3-ways will be a thing of the past thanks to 2020 code lol
I’m so happy I ran across this video!!! I’ve been researching all week, trying to figure out why the blk/white wires were connected in the box…now I can confidently wire and install my new ceiling fan!!
Helped me figure out my issue. I didn't pay attention to how it was wired when I unhooked the light fixture. I did note there were three sets of capped wires. Had some issues when I hooked everything together with only two sets of capped wires. Then I opened the switch box and saw only one set of wires. This threw me for a loop (all pun intended). Found your video and it helped me to make sense of this. Thanks a million! By the way, I am a diy guy. Just putting a ceiling fan where the old light fixture was.
Thanks my friend, there are lessons to be had from all of them, just trying to help get more content out to the trade as a whole. I appreciate you watching!
we recently purchased a late 50s home and encountered this in the box in the dining room. i thought it was improperly wired and, after doing some research, landed to this video. it helped greatly. really clear and explained perfectly. thanks man.
I’ve seen multiple tutorial videos to pick up on the electrician language and skills. Of all videos, you seem to the most proficient at educating and keeping it simple for the audience - you show competency in what you do and I like how you tie it back to regulations and codes.
Thank you so much for this video! I realize you made it five years ago, but after trying to troubleshoot some thing a "licensed" electrician screwed up this was the single video I was able to find after hours of searching that actually helped me properly fix my wiring.
I just bought a new home and needed to replace a light switch. Mistake number one, I didn't document how it was wired as is. Mistake number two, I assumed one of those lines was just power for a stupid light in the closet. Thank you for this tutorial. I was able to figure out how everything coming off that hot wire was connected together and my first try (after) was perfect.
Rejoice in those mistakes friend- as you became a better electrician for them. Yes it's always best to properly document especially if you don't have a full understanding, but getting in a hurry can sometimes force us to slow down and learn things from the ground up, or the panel down so to speak, lol. Cheers!
Dustin, thanks for this beautiful explanation. I had a very strange call today. Customer says when he turns the TV on, the flood light, on the eve, out side his window turns on but really dim. At first I thought it was a short. Oh how I was wrong. Basically the switch on the wall was blanked and someone spliced into the power (white wire hot ) and ran it down the wall to a new outlet which the TV was plugged into. See where this is going yet?? Had to get my extension ladder to get to the flood light, once I opened it up I saw the infamous white and black under the wire nut and from your video, I knew exactly what I was dealing with. What happened was the outlet that was spliced through at the old switch location became an open switch. Plug a TV into said outlet, and now the TV has become the switch. Somehow the TV was able to produce enough Volts to barely light the flood light. Add this one to the list of shit you’d never think you would see. Remedy, replace flood light with motion detector and make the the rest of the circuit straight through power.
i just subbed because im a 17 year old apprentice and got roasted at work for having an issue with setting this up...Its super simple lol Thank you. I will watch your videos now.
Hey, I am a noob when it comes to electricity but after watching your white board and this video I finally understand why the switch that controls a outlet is wired. I have watched your other channel too and thoroughly enjoyed them too.
I have always wrapped a bit of black electrical tape or some kind of marker to indicate that white wire may have power on it. I would have expected that to be code.
@@lminterests5590 It is code. 2023, 310.6(C) Ungrounded Conductors. In the informational note it says "Ungrounded conductors with white insulation are permitted if the conductors are permanently reidentified at termination points...A white conductor used in a single-pole...switch loop also requires reidentification (a color other than white, gray or green) if it is used as an ungrounded conductor.
This is the standard way of providing lighting in the UK. Lamp holders have three sets of connections; line (hot), neutral and switched line. The lighting switch back boxes only have the line feed and the switch return. This enables the back boxes for light switches to be shallower than the back boxes for sockets. It's probably because it's normal for all cabling to run throught the ceiling with drops down to switches and sockets rather than having the cabling running through stud walls like seems to be the norm in USA.
Stuart Arnold , my guess is because it makes it simpler. This method in the video seems more complicated. Your way does make more practical sense though. It saves the integrity of the studs and less wiring
The new NEC Code requires Hot,nutral and ground wires in a box. Plus...the Hot White conductor has to be identified as a Hot conductor by tape it or Mark it with Black, red or Blue for 120 volt.
It is always a good idea to have a neutral in we every switch box because some occupancy sensors require a neutral to operate. Future energy codes will mandate them for some light fixtures.
I couldn’t get my head around how to connect a line of lights to power. Then i came across this video and a light bulb went off in my head:) ten minutes later i had all my basement lights working on a single swith loop. Thank you!!
Got it. I'm getting in my electric, kinda cramming, I'm run a handyman business out here in Cali and pass up so many electric jobs. Need to get rid of the fear of electricity and man up. Appreciate he motivation and tips, it's really awesome man.
Great videos, really helpful, keep it up. Just to add something to what you showed, and you tell me if it should be done in this way. If you wanted to ground the switch itself, you could still use the ground wire from the leg and twist it together with the one on the power side bypassing the light fixture.
I have this same problem where the power comes from my ceiling light and not from the switch. Now I know why my white wire from the switch is not a neutral. Best explanation ever. Thanks
As probably many already mentioned its a nice way to use the spare wire but removes the possibility for future expansions. Recently had to replace a switch into a switch outlet gfci combo and if this was the wiring done there i would had to rewire but since it had the unused neutral upgrade was rather easy.
I wouldn't recommend ever making connections to any terminal with a drill or impact. I have experienced many problems especially with newer guys doing this. Otherwise the switch loop in this configuration was well explained thanks!
I don't recommend painting even to professional painters. Same goes with swinging a hammer and cutting boards, plumbing showers etc. Literally every contractor I've ever hired (dozens who were highly rated) is a hack and wouldn't trust them to mow my lawn! However I use a huge powerful cordless drill to make many of my electrical connections quickly and securely, but NEVER with an impact gun! Can't even imagine thinking to try that, lol.
I like your videos.....you explain things very good. I am 43 years as an electrician. Please do get upset if sometimes I comment on your content...bad or good..from one electrician to another
Amazing videos and thank you for your effort and all that you do. The clearest explaining so far! I am not an electrician, but I am comfortable around power. I am renovating my house that was built in the '60s. I am doing a smart house, with wifi switches and outlets. I've already installed most of the WiFi outlets. No issues there at all. I came across the almost identical setup, I got fluorescent lights instead. The switch is in the metal box, white is hot, the ground is tied to the box inside. Not sure what is the black wire doing there :) I would like to swap the lights for some LED's (still deciding on what light source will be) and would like to swap the switch to the 1-way WiFi switch (made by Merkury MI-WW107). Here is the connection instruction. "Connect switch's neutral (white) wire to home's neutral, connect switch's load (brown) wire to the home's load wire, connect switch's live (black) wire to the home's live wire. The connecting ground is optional" Would you be kind to explain how to connect wires in my situation? I've been looking for an answer for a few days now without any luck (I am sure that my understanding is a problem) Thanks for your time and help! Awesome channel!
Yes! And electricians never do. Tape is expensive. Avoid doing this. It's old school wiring.. If you open the switch box and only have one set of wires, you now It's a dead leg (switch loop). The next give away is that white attached to that switch. It means that white is used as a positive.
Read 404.2 (C) in the nec. Neutrals are required in switch boxes. There are some exceptions, but you better be careful who your inspector is. The only one you might be able to get away with in this situation, after drywall is 404.2 (c) 2 "Where the box enclosing the switch is accessible for the installation of an additional or replacement cable without removing finish material" please don't teach these kids any hack shit. Only teach quality with this platform you have. Thank you fellow sparky.
the incoming hot enters the electrical box where the light will be installed - I like to say that instead of "it goes to the light" as the hot conductor (black) is not connected to the lamp it's connected to the white conductor that goes down to the switch ... they say, "down on white, back on black" .... these are great videos I really like this stuff, thanks E U !
I have a 100+ year old house and I’m upgrading the panel and wiring. But I have a kitchen light powered on a knob and tube circuit and I have no access to fish a new Romex cable to the light fixture. I do have access to the switch, though. As expected, it has 2 separate K&T conductors entering. Not sure if it’s wired as loop switch, but I think I can make that moot by bringing a new 14/2 into the switch box as the power supply and use the 2 K&T conductors as hot from switch to light and neutral back out of the light to the switch. No way to ground the light, but that’s okay. At the light fixture, in the box, I can cap off any other wires and ignore them (I’ll be feeding all other outlets in this circuit with new wire, so eventually all the K&T will be dead (except the 2 down to the switch). I’ll have to leave most of the other K&T dead and in place because I have no way to pull it out. I suppose the best practice would be to put a cap on each one but also label it as “dead” or “derelict” (not sure what the best descriptor is to prevent someone else from panicking over them in the future).
1st thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am no electrician but love watching these videos. I purchased my home last year and wanted to convert a few of my light switches to the smart home ones. Not knowing these new devices require a neutral wire but I have switch loop setup as well. What should I expect when I call a pro?
This is so wild, I literally just ran into my first job where the whole house ( an old one) was wired that way, but everywhere. Would this be considered an old method? Do electricians still wire houses that way? Is there a benefit? 🤔
Hi. The only benefit that I can see is when it saves wire, i.e. if your light is between your source and your switch box. Or if your switchbox is already crammed with connections- then you may be able to utilize the extra space in your lightbox to make the junction. Otherwise either way can get the job done. Perhaps the norm in your area was to keep it the same for simplicity sake, and therefore the usual practice was/is to design electrical systems with "switch at end of run" as the standard. It actually does make some sense to design that way if the panels are located higher near the ceiling than the floor. Why? Because it's easier to run wires up through the ceiling into a light first, then straight down to a switch, rather than having to go up into the ceiling, down into the wall for a switch then back up into the ceiling again for the light. Another alternative would be to run the wires down through the floor, then up into a switch box, then up to the light. The problem with that is now if you need to repair or modify, the wire is buried beneath your beautiful hardwoods, rather than hiding behind cheap drywall on the ceiling. Oddly, most people I've noticed do it the harder way- which is up into ceiling, then down into switchbox, then back up to the light. Why? Well, because likely it's what they were taught as being the norm, or what they felt most comfortable with in their understanding. Hope that helps.
I'm rewiring my 1920 built craftsman home in San Diego Ca. It has "knob & tube" electrical wiring 12" apart in the attic space. Single wires mind you. I don't care how it was wired in 1920, I cut the wires out and started anew. I'll use both ways/systems, what ever is easier for me at that circuit. I liked this video very much and have done that in previous situations.
The switch loop itself is not to code anymore. The NEC now requires a neutral wire at every switch location.... My guess is that they require a neutral for the newer style of LED dimmers on the market.
Dear friend Thanks u help me as student you to do switch and loop works I'm not to old to take lessons and I'm entrusts you nice explaining and where you demo it for as thanks I'm in joy all of your videos You my hero
I thought that under the new 2017 NEC there had to be a neutral in every switch box? Whereas under the old code (2014 and before) you could run switch legs with one piece of 2 conductor wire from a switch to a load. I haven't got a copy of the 2017 so I may be mistaken. Good topic. Take care. Doug
Probably going to depend on what state/county/city you are in, and whether they have completely adopted NEC. I'm pretty sure switch loops haven't been allowed in my state for some time long before 2017.
Great explanation in plain language I understand (wish I had a partner who spoke the same way 😂). In all seriousness, I had a problem with a light switch for a long time and this makes it clear what I need to do to fix it. thank you.
Always well-explained videos, thank you! I have a question for you that I hope you can address. How to wire daisy-chained recessed lights when you have an end-of-run switch/switch loop? Thank you!
All lighting wiring in the UK is done this way, with the wire to the next light taken from the box behind the light. Our light fittings are designed to do this. John Ward will explain how it works.
Thanks D. What brand of tool pouch is that? I've watched a bunch of your videos hoping to catch the brand and model but you never spill the goods. Great run down.
Great explanation and demonstration on switch loops. I have a question I'm hoping you can answer. I acquired an old home that has had a century's worth of additions and multi-generational electrical work. Some very confounding setups in various parts of the house. I'm not an electrician so I have a professional out for larger projects. For simple things like adding switches and receptacles, I've done myself. I've run into several ceiling lights wired with switch loops in the oldest part of the house. I'd like to change a one gang switch loop to a 2 gang (one will operate a new porch light and the original will continue to operate a foyer light). All wiring on that side of the house is BX cloth-covered wire (in surprisingly good shape but no ground). Can this be safely done without rewiring? Thanks in advance for any advice.
Hii there Electrician U, thanks for your efforts in doing these educational videos. very beneficial and nicely done. for shorter version of my questions: what is the name of the neutral wire that returns from load ? (load wire ? load return wire ?) and what is the name of the neutral wire that is directly from fuse panel ? ( just neutral wire right ?) thanks andrew
My understanding. Normal loop = 2 different wires of NEUTRAL conncted with wire nut, AFTER coming out of light. Switch loop = 2 different wires of HOT connected with wire nut, (probably place inside or outside light) BEFORE coming to swith And they both are going one loop together to make light bulbs
Instead of the light fixture could that be a reseptacle? I'm wiring a van and the switch would turn on/of the water heater that's plugged to the reseptacle. Ty great video.
is there another video connecting the 2 other switch boxes from the switch loop? I would be interested in knowing how that works, especially when connecting a dimmer with/without a neutral.
I’m pretty sure that the 2020 code requires a neutral run to every switch box so you can add a switch that requires it’s own neutral. To do that you’d run a 12/3 from the light to the switch and use the red wire as the second hot and the neutral would just be pushed to the back with a nut on it. I think this video is mostly to illustrate how switch loops were commonly run prior to the code update.
So in order to run a constant On Outlet off of the switch you would have to re-run 12/3 wire to the light so you have a neutral on the outlet off the switch unless there was another neutral in the switch box from another set of wires, correct?
I believe in Ontario new code is neutral to every switch box. the fancy new home automation devices require a power source and to many people where just using ground wire as the neutral.
Thank you very much for the explanation. Question: I live in an old house and we have this switch loop thing. Is it possible to fix it so that I can actually have neutral on my switch?
Im a newbie in school but i thought 2017 nec wants a neurtal in each switch box for smart switches? Love your vids my school just teaches us how to pass the test. We do like no hands on ever
Nick you are correct 2017 code requires a neutral available in the switch box even if not currently used. There are some exceptions but not something most situations would apply for
I didn't allow my guys to do dead legs (switch loops). We'd fail the inspection because most of our inspectors considered that light box as a junction box. Not to mention the homeowner or new guy would always try to go in the box when the fixture is being changed and connect all the whites to white, and all the black to black, tripping the breaker. Just do it right, bring the hot leg to the switch box, then supply the light box from there.
Wow I’ve learned something That another easy way. Thanks I’m trying to learn what I can because Im try set up wire for entire room. They got one power line running and I’m trying to figure out how to get the outlets, lights and switch running at once, I don’tknow if it works because that how it was set up. Thanks
Thank you for this video, you saved me days maybe even weeks trying to understand how my damn light switches are powered, it’s such an odd setup but it works, thank god modern electricians don’t use this anymore!
An easier explanation that I found is to think of electricity as water flowing through a pipe. The black hot wire (pipe) in the light receptacle is connected to a longer pipe (white leg wire) and connected to one end of a shutoff valve (first switch screw) and another pipe (black leg wire) connected to the other end of the valve (other switch screw) and back to the light receptacle and connected to the gold screw (hot) of the light fixture.
I never understood this. If you cant grasp resistance in a circuit, why would you in plumbing? Now I wonder if plumbers say "think about it like current through a wire"
Thank you for the great video. I have a question. My ceiling light take a few minutes to turn on after turn off for about 30 minutes. Not sure about the problem. The loop is connected in the same way as in the video. Power from the ceiling and instate of the white they use the black wire to connect to the power wires (black) and run to the switch and white wire up to the ceiling light again. Before, the ceiling black wire backward connected to the neutral and the ceiling white wire is connected to the white hot wires (white) from the switch. After watching the video I have reversed it. The neutral to the neutral of the ceiling light and the ceiling back wire to the hot white wire from the switch. However, after turn on the light for a few minutes and turn off and try to turn on again the ceiling light still take a few minutes to turn on as before. I try to check if there are any loose wires connection but the problem still happen after making sure all wires are connected properly. Can you please advice me if there are anything that I might have done incorrectly? Not sure the ceiling light socket or the wires is mess up as it was connected backward before. Thank you.
I like the black edition Makita sub-compact set you have.I got one to it's great work for this trade. One question I have for you. Can you just run one 16-2 from a junction to your switched power (use to be a receptacle now I want it to be a light) can i just tie into the power neutral with my switches neutral then run my hot to the switches hot to make it work. It's working right now but what makes it dangerous.
Hello, i am having issues wiring my garage... i am running my lighting circuit. First, i wanted to run my power feed from the panel, to a junction box (which will split towards a motion activated flood light that is continuously powered, split to the garage door opener, and split to a switch to power separate work bench lights).. my first junction box split is as such... panel box, to junction box, to motion activated flood light (always powered), to light switch, to ceiling lights for garage. I wired hot to hot and neutral to neutral and ground to ground at the JB and the motion flood light, then i ran Down to the switch to where the circuit will be broken to turn off/on the ceiling lights when needed. I pig tailed the 2 neutrals at the switch and connected the hot wires into the switch, and also connected the grounds. I didn’t wire in any ceiling lights from the switch yet, but i turned my breaker back on and the flood light connection box keeps popping and sparking when the breaker is flipped on.... what do i have wrong here? I don’t want to break the circuit until after the flood light, once the circuit hits the switch for the ceiling lights.
Hello Dustin, I'm really glad to have found and enjoyed your video(s)! Could your 'switch loop' wiring be a similar principle to wiring a 'half hot' receptacle? I'm desiring to change an under-the-sink switched receptacle to a 'half hot' receptacle for a new dishwasher installation. Problem is... the 12/2 from the circuit breaker panel is running to the (abv counter) switch first, with a black to the bottom (off) side of switch (with the two whites wire-nutted together up in the switch box), and then a black running from the top (on) side of switch....into identical 12/2 romex (one black, one white, one bare ground) running down to the switched receptacle. So, the problem as I see it, there's no 3-wire running down to the receptacle, i.e. no red (3rd) wire to split the hot power. Question: Is there any way to still turn the receptacle into a 'half hot' receptacle....with only the 12/2 romex running down to it from switch? Thanks so very much if you've the time to reply! ;)
In the interest of expediency I will always.put. the neutral in the switch box,,,if you needed to troubleshoot the circuit you will not need a ladder,,,,but if the neutral is in the fixture,then that entails having to get a ladder and dismantling the fixture,,,,,that's too much work,,,.
In my area we call them "Dead ends". I personally only do them if I know I will have a Neutral coming to the box later. Cause code. Great videos! Learning new terms and refreshing my brain.
Just do it with 12/3 and you can have your neutral and switch loop too
@@df4196 That's typically how I'll run them. Either 14 or 12/3. Never done it but an idea I've had is running 12 or 14/4 (14/2/2) for 3-way systems but now with Caseta switches, running wires for 3-ways will be a thing of the past thanks to 2020 code lol
I’m so happy I ran across this video!!! I’ve been researching all week, trying to figure out why the blk/white wires were connected in the box…now I can confidently wire and install my new ceiling fan!!
Helped me figure out my issue. I didn't pay attention to how it was wired when I unhooked the light fixture. I did note there were three sets of capped wires. Had some issues when I hooked everything together with only two sets of capped wires. Then I opened the switch box and saw only one set of wires. This threw me for a loop (all pun intended).
Found your video and it helped me to make sense of this. Thanks a million!
By the way, I am a diy guy. Just putting a ceiling fan where the old light fixture was.
honestly the best explained switch loop video I've seen on CZcams.
g00se0017 his quite the teacher..
Thanks my friend, there are lessons to be had from all of them, just trying to help get more content out to the trade as a whole. I appreciate you watching!
Thank you!
Agreed
How can I remove a bulb that has, blown out and bottom of bulb has popped out of socket and is hanging!! HELP!!
we recently purchased a late 50s home and encountered this in the box in the dining room. i thought it was improperly wired and, after doing some research, landed to this video. it helped greatly. really clear and explained perfectly. thanks man.
I’ve seen multiple tutorial videos to pick up on the electrician language and skills.
Of all videos, you seem to the most proficient at educating and keeping it simple for the audience - you show competency in what you do and I like how you tie it back to regulations and codes.
Thank you so much for this video! I realize you made it five years ago, but after trying to troubleshoot some thing a "licensed" electrician screwed up this was the single video I was able to find after hours of searching that actually helped me properly fix my wiring.
I just bought a new home and needed to replace a light switch. Mistake number one, I didn't document how it was wired as is. Mistake number two, I assumed one of those lines was just power for a stupid light in the closet. Thank you for this tutorial. I was able to figure out how everything coming off that hot wire was connected together and my first try (after) was perfect.
Rejoice in those mistakes friend- as you became a better electrician for them. Yes it's always best to properly document especially if you don't have a full understanding, but getting in a hurry can sometimes force us to slow down and learn things from the ground up, or the panel down so to speak, lol. Cheers!
Dustin, thanks for this beautiful explanation.
I had a very strange call today. Customer says when he turns the TV on, the flood light, on the eve, out side his window turns on but really dim.
At first I thought it was a short. Oh how I was wrong.
Basically the switch on the wall was blanked and someone spliced into the power (white wire hot ) and ran it down the wall to a new outlet which the TV was plugged into.
See where this is going yet??
Had to get my extension ladder to get to the flood light, once I opened it up I saw the infamous white and black under the wire nut and from your video, I knew exactly what I was dealing with.
What happened was the outlet that was spliced through at the old switch location became an open switch. Plug a TV into said outlet, and now the TV has become the switch.
Somehow the TV was able to produce enough Volts to barely light the flood light.
Add this one to the list of shit you’d never think you would see.
Remedy, replace flood light with motion detector and make the the rest of the circuit straight through power.
i just subbed because im a 17 year old apprentice and got roasted at work for having an issue with setting this up...Its super simple lol Thank you. I will watch your videos now.
Hey, I am a noob when it comes to electricity but after watching your white board and this video I finally understand why the switch that controls a outlet is wired. I have watched your other channel too and thoroughly enjoyed them too.
Sir, you forgot the taping of the wire to show the white wire as a hot as you explained at the beginning of the video. I like your videos very much.
I have always wrapped a bit of black electrical tape or some kind of marker to indicate that white wire may have power on it. I would have expected that to be code.
@@lminterests5590 It is code. 2023, 310.6(C) Ungrounded Conductors. In the informational note it says "Ungrounded conductors with white insulation are permitted if the conductors are permanently reidentified at termination points...A white conductor used in a single-pole...switch loop also requires reidentification (a color other than white, gray or green) if it is used as an ungrounded conductor.
This is the standard way of providing lighting in the UK. Lamp holders have three sets of connections; line (hot), neutral and switched line. The lighting switch back boxes only have the line feed and the switch return. This enables the back boxes for light switches to be shallower than the back boxes for sockets.
It's probably because it's normal for all cabling to run throught the ceiling with drops down to switches and sockets rather than having the cabling running through stud walls like seems to be the norm in USA.
Stuart Arnold , my guess is because it makes it simpler. This method in the video seems more complicated. Your way does make more practical sense though. It saves the integrity of the studs and less wiring
Thank you so much man, I’m in the process of remodeling a house and this video helped me make sense of the old electrical
Did they get the hots from the receptacles for the lights?
Most people wire per room… we wire separate for lighting and receptacles
The new NEC Code requires Hot,nutral and ground wires in a box. Plus...the Hot White conductor has to be identified as a Hot conductor by tape it or Mark it with Black, red or Blue for 120 volt.
It is always a good idea to have a neutral in we every switch box because some occupancy sensors require a neutral to operate. Future energy codes will mandate them for some light fixtures.
our local code demands neutral in every box. I only encounter switch loops in old, or "unlicensed", work.
I think you are a great teacher, you be doing ur thang. Thanks for sharing God Bless You and your Family.
I couldn’t get my head around how to connect a line of lights to power. Then i came across this video and a light bulb went off in my head:) ten minutes later i had all my basement lights working on a single swith loop. Thank you!!
The Corey Shafer of electricians. Subscribed very hard to this.
Got it. I'm getting in my electric, kinda cramming, I'm run a handyman business out here in Cali and pass up so many electric jobs. Need to get rid of the fear of electricity and man up. Appreciate he motivation and tips, it's really awesome man.
There's a lot to k now, there's a reason the apprenticeship is 4 years. Good luck k out there my friend
As a handy man you shouldn’t touch electric. Only if you’ve schooled or apprenticed under a real electrician should you touch electric
perfectly demonstration thank you so much please keep making video like this they are extremely helpful.
I ran into a switch loop situation today, man was this video super helpful. Thanks Dustin 👍
Great videos, really helpful, keep it up. Just to add something to what you showed, and you tell me if it should be done in this way. If you wanted to ground the switch itself, you could still use the ground wire from the leg and twist it together with the one on the power side bypassing the light fixture.
I have this same problem where the power comes from my ceiling light and not from the switch. Now I know why my white wire from the switch is not a neutral. Best explanation ever. Thanks
Awesome. Most helpful and concise explanation I've found. Thanks for doing this!
Great video! Helped me to see it clearly and take care of a problem the prior homeowner had created. Thanks
As probably many already mentioned its a nice way to use the spare wire but removes the possibility for future expansions. Recently had to replace a switch into a switch outlet gfci combo and if this was the wiring done there i would had to rewire but since it had the unused neutral upgrade was rather easy.
I wouldn't recommend ever making connections to any terminal with a drill or impact. I have experienced many problems especially with newer guys doing this.
Otherwise the switch loop in this configuration was well explained thanks!
I don't recommend painting even to professional painters. Same goes with swinging a hammer and cutting boards, plumbing showers etc. Literally every contractor I've ever hired (dozens who were highly rated) is a hack and wouldn't trust them to mow my lawn! However I use a huge powerful cordless drill to make many of my electrical connections quickly and securely, but NEVER with an impact gun! Can't even imagine thinking to try that, lol.
Love the shirt hah. Starting my second year in a apprenticeship in the fall. I just recently did a ton of these for closet lighting great video!
Not everything new makes sense
Very clear video, helped alot. Will not fry myself now.
I like your videos.....you explain things very good. I am 43 years as an electrician. Please do get upset if sometimes I comment on your content...bad or good..from one electrician to another
Thanks again for another quality video, enjoy them immensely, keep it up it's appreciated!
Amazing videos and thank you for your effort and all that you do. The clearest explaining so far!
I am not an electrician, but I am comfortable around power. I am renovating my house that was built in the '60s. I am doing a smart house, with wifi switches and outlets.
I've already installed most of the WiFi outlets. No issues there at all.
I came across the almost identical setup, I got fluorescent lights instead. The switch is in the metal box, white is hot, the ground is tied to the box inside.
Not sure what is the black wire doing there :)
I would like to swap the lights for some LED's (still deciding on what light source will be) and would like to swap the switch to the 1-way WiFi switch (made by Merkury MI-WW107).
Here is the connection instruction.
"Connect switch's neutral (white) wire to home's neutral, connect switch's load (brown) wire to the home's load wire, connect switch's live (black) wire to the home's live wire.
The connecting ground is optional"
Would you be kind to explain how to connect wires in my situation? I've been looking for an answer for a few days now without any luck (I am sure that my understanding is a problem)
Thanks for your time and help!
Awesome channel!
Don’t you need to re-identify the neutral (grounded) conductor as a hot (ungrounded) conductor?
Yeah, you know you do.
put a note in the box, if your really good.
Yes! And electricians never do. Tape is expensive. Avoid doing this. It's old school wiring..
If you open the switch box and only have one set of wires, you now It's a dead leg (switch loop). The next give away is that white attached to that switch. It means that white is used as a positive.
I usually use a red felt marker to color the white used as hot.
Read 404.2 (C) in the nec. Neutrals are required in switch boxes. There are some exceptions, but you better be careful who your inspector is. The only one you might be able to get away with in this situation, after drywall is 404.2 (c) 2 "Where the box enclosing the switch is accessible for the installation of an additional or replacement cable without removing finish material" please don't teach these kids any hack shit. Only teach quality with this platform you have. Thank you fellow sparky.
God, I wish I’d had you on my jobsites to explain electrical stuff to me!!
the incoming hot enters the electrical box where the light will be installed - I like to say that instead of "it goes to the light" as the hot conductor (black) is not connected to the lamp it's connected to the white conductor that goes down to the switch ... they say, "down on white, back on black" .... these are great videos I really like this stuff, thanks E U !
I like that. Reminds me of the song “back in black” by AC/DC
good one ! or the song by Amy Winehouse 'back to black' ...
I have a 100+ year old house and I’m upgrading the panel and wiring. But I have a kitchen light powered on a knob and tube circuit and I have no access to fish a new Romex cable to the light fixture. I do have access to the switch, though. As expected, it has 2 separate K&T conductors entering. Not sure if it’s wired as loop switch, but I think I can make that moot by bringing a new 14/2 into the switch box as the power supply and use the 2 K&T conductors as hot from switch to light and neutral back out of the light to the switch. No way to ground the light, but that’s okay. At the light fixture, in the box, I can cap off any other wires and ignore them (I’ll be feeding all other outlets in this circuit with new wire, so eventually all the K&T will be dead (except the 2 down to the switch). I’ll have to leave most of the other K&T dead and in place because I have no way to pull it out. I suppose the best practice would be to put a cap on each one but also label it as “dead” or “derelict” (not sure what the best descriptor is to prevent someone else from panicking over them in the future).
I was changing to newer type of switch where black and white wire was connected to switch, it confirmed what i thaught Great informarion thanks
I like the way , you explain things, you kick ass my bro, great teacher 😆.
1st thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am no electrician but love watching these videos. I purchased my home last year and wanted to convert a few of my light switches to the smart home ones. Not knowing these new devices require a neutral wire but I have switch loop setup as well. What should I expect when I call a pro?
I am experiencing the same issues. We’re you able to install your smart switch? I tried installing the link kasa switch but it just flickers.
This is so wild, I literally just ran into my first job where the whole house ( an old one) was wired that way, but everywhere. Would this be considered an old method? Do electricians still wire houses that way? Is there a benefit? 🤔
Hi. The only benefit that I can see is when it saves wire, i.e. if your light is between your source and your switch box. Or if your switchbox is already crammed with connections- then you may be able to utilize the extra space in your lightbox to make the junction. Otherwise either way can get the job done. Perhaps the norm in your area was to keep it the same for simplicity sake, and therefore the usual practice was/is to design electrical systems with "switch at end of run" as the standard. It actually does make some sense to design that way if the panels are located higher near the ceiling than the floor. Why? Because it's easier to run wires up through the ceiling into a light first, then straight down to a switch, rather than having to go up into the ceiling, down into the wall for a switch then back up into the ceiling again for the light. Another alternative would be to run the wires down through the floor, then up into a switch box, then up to the light. The problem with that is now if you need to repair or modify, the wire is buried beneath your beautiful hardwoods, rather than hiding behind cheap drywall on the ceiling. Oddly, most people I've noticed do it the harder way- which is up into ceiling, then down into switchbox, then back up to the light. Why? Well, because likely it's what they were taught as being the norm, or what they felt most comfortable with in their understanding. Hope that helps.
I'm rewiring my 1920 built craftsman home in San Diego Ca. It has "knob & tube" electrical wiring 12" apart in the attic space. Single wires mind you. I don't care how it was wired in 1920, I cut the wires out and started anew. I'll use both ways/systems, what ever is easier for me at that circuit. I liked this video very much and have done that in previous situations.
Great video gotta love the code guys on here. Great job 😊
The switch loop itself is not to code anymore. The NEC now requires a neutral wire at every switch location.... My guess is that they require a neutral for the newer style of LED dimmers on the market.
Switch loops work really well to eliminate pull chain , example ceiling-lights
Dear friend
Thanks u help me as student you to do switch and loop works I'm not to old to take lessons and I'm entrusts you nice explaining and where you demo it for as thanks
I'm in joy all of your videos
You my hero
I thought that under the new 2017 NEC there had to be a neutral in every switch box? Whereas under the old code (2014 and before) you could run switch legs with one piece of 2 conductor wire from a switch to a load. I haven't got a copy of the 2017 so I may be mistaken. Good topic. Take care. Doug
Probably going to depend on what state/county/city you are in, and whether they have completely adopted NEC. I'm pretty sure switch loops haven't been allowed in my state for some time long before 2017.
Not every switch box.
2011 was when 404.2 came out
This is how my switch is wired at home! I am trying to add neutral wires when moving things around so I will study up on this more
Thanks again for these tutorials.
U r great. I understand everything brother . The way u explain is awesome.
Great explanation in plain language I understand (wish I had a partner who spoke the same way 😂). In all seriousness, I had a problem with a light switch for a long time and this makes it clear what I need to do to fix it. thank you.
Hey thank you for this video. Very helpful we needed that second wire to the switch.
Always well-explained videos, thank you!
I have a question for you that I hope you can address. How to wire daisy-chained recessed lights when you have an end-of-run switch/switch loop? Thank you!
I have an older house. This was very helpful. Thank you.
Another very well explained great video! Thanks Dustin, you da man 🤘
Good vid ... very helpful ... especially to apprentices coming up ...
Theeee best! Thank you so much for posting this video. Fixed my problem right away!
All lighting wiring in the UK is done this way, with the wire to the next light taken from the box behind the light. Our light fittings are designed to do this. John Ward will explain how it works.
Very clear and concise refresher for me! Thanks
Currently taking electrical training and this helped a alit!
Thanks D. What brand of tool pouch is that? I've watched a bunch of your videos hoping to catch the brand and model but you never spill the goods. Great run down.
Great explanation and demonstration on switch loops. I have a question I'm hoping you can answer. I acquired an old home that has had a century's worth of additions and multi-generational electrical work. Some very confounding setups in various parts of the house. I'm not an electrician so I have a professional out for larger projects. For simple things like adding switches and receptacles, I've done myself. I've run into several ceiling lights wired with switch loops in the oldest part of the house. I'd like to change a one gang switch loop to a 2 gang (one will operate a new porch light and the original will continue to operate a foyer light). All wiring on that side of the house is BX cloth-covered wire (in surprisingly good shape but no ground). Can this be safely done without rewiring? Thanks in advance for any advice.
Hii there Electrician U,
thanks for your efforts in doing these educational videos. very beneficial and nicely done.
for shorter version of my questions:
what is the name of the neutral wire that returns from load ? (load wire ? load return wire ?)
and what is the name of the neutral wire that is directly from fuse panel ? ( just neutral wire right ?)
thanks
andrew
My understanding.
Normal loop = 2 different wires of NEUTRAL conncted with wire nut, AFTER coming out of light.
Switch loop = 2 different wires of HOT connected with wire nut, (probably place inside or outside light) BEFORE coming to swith
And they both are going one loop together to make light bulbs
In residential new construction wiring, is this method of wiring switches ever used nowadays? Your videos are sick and they're very informative
Instead of the light fixture could that be a reseptacle? I'm wiring a van and the switch would turn on/of the water heater that's plugged to the reseptacle. Ty great video.
is there another video connecting the 2 other switch boxes from the switch loop? I would be interested in knowing how that works, especially when connecting a dimmer with/without a neutral.
I’m pretty sure that the 2020 code requires a neutral run to every switch box so you can add a switch that requires it’s own neutral. To do that you’d run a 12/3 from the light to the switch and use the red wire as the second hot and the neutral would just be pushed to the back with a nut on it.
I think this video is mostly to illustrate how switch loops were commonly run prior to the code update.
So in order to run a constant On Outlet off of the switch you would have to re-run 12/3 wire to the light so you have a neutral on the outlet off the switch unless there was another neutral in the switch box from another set of wires, correct?
Thought the new code required hot, neutral and ground at switch - ???
I believe in Ontario new code is neutral to every switch box. the fancy new home automation devices require a power source and to many people where just using ground wire as the neutral.
Thank you very much for the explanation. Question: I live in an old house and we have this switch loop thing. Is it possible to fix it so that I can actually have neutral on my switch?
Im a newbie in school but i thought 2017 nec wants a neurtal in each switch box for smart switches? Love your vids my school just teaches us how to pass the test. We do like no hands on ever
Nick you are correct 2017 code requires a neutral available in the switch box even if not currently used. There are some exceptions but not something most situations would apply for
Canadian electrical codes states all switch locations require a neutral now. For all the new smart devices
thanks for the awesome videos im starting a apprenticeship in about 2 weeks after i graduate on the 24th any tips for me.
Show up, work hard, be respectful and you’ll be fine
How'd it work out? Have you stuck with it? You should be a journeyman soon if you did.
Thank you so much for your help. 🙏
Found this very useful.
Thank you for making and sharing this video for illustration purposes. Much appreciated. Subbed 4 sure.
I believe this is a bit older. I think by code a neutral is necessary at every switch on new installs.
Great videos Great explanations for all of them too
I didn't allow my guys to do dead legs (switch loops). We'd fail the inspection because most of our inspectors considered that light box as a junction box. Not to mention the homeowner or new guy would always try to go in the box when the fixture is being changed and connect all the whites to white, and all the black to black, tripping the breaker.
Just do it right, bring the hot leg to the switch box, then supply the light box from there.
Enjoyed the video thanks for educating me
Hey Dustin, can you do a video on how to do a switch loop on 3 and 4 ways switches?
Wow I’ve learned something
That another easy way. Thanks
I’m trying to learn what I can because Im try set up wire for entire room. They got one power line running and I’m trying to figure out how to get the outlets, lights and switch running at once, I don’tknow if it works because that how it was set up. Thanks
Id like to see more videos more often....cheers bro
Thank you for this video, you saved me days maybe even weeks trying to understand how my damn light switches are powered, it’s such an odd setup but it works, thank god modern electricians don’t use this anymore!
Not for new work. Sometimes there’s no choice. Labeling is extremely valuable.
An easier explanation that I found is to think of electricity as water flowing through a pipe. The black hot wire (pipe) in the light receptacle is connected to a longer pipe (white leg wire) and connected to one end of a shutoff valve (first switch screw) and another pipe (black leg wire) connected to the other end of the valve (other switch screw) and back to the light receptacle and connected to the gold screw (hot) of the light fixture.
I never understood this. If you cant grasp resistance in a circuit, why would you in plumbing?
Now I wonder if plumbers say "think about it like current through a wire"
@@Ryan-hr9hw lmao now that's a good one 😂
Always love your videos
Great video - thank you. Could you show how to do multiple lights off of a loop?
so with new code this year requiring a neutral in every switch box, how would you accomplish this ?
or could you just pig tail in the light box to draw a neutral down ?
@@094281003 nope.. you can run 14/3. you'd use the red and black wires. neutral would just be in the box for future use
Thank you for the great video. I have a question. My ceiling light take a few minutes to turn on after turn off for about 30 minutes. Not sure about the problem. The loop is connected in the same way as in the video. Power from the ceiling and instate of the white they use the black wire to connect to the power wires (black) and run to the switch and white wire up to the ceiling light again. Before, the ceiling black wire backward connected to the neutral and the ceiling white wire is connected to the white hot wires (white) from the switch. After watching the video I have reversed it. The neutral to the neutral of the ceiling light and the ceiling back wire to the hot white wire from the switch. However, after turn on the light for a few minutes and turn off and try to turn on again the ceiling light still take a few minutes to turn on as before. I try to check if there are any loose wires connection but the problem still happen after making sure all wires are connected properly. Can you please advice me if there are anything that I might have done incorrectly? Not sure the ceiling light socket or the wires is mess up as it was connected backward before. Thank you.
What about naturals for smart switches like the Leviton for HomeKit?
Use the ground... shhhh
That was a really helpful video, very well explained.
I like the black edition Makita sub-compact set you have.I got one to it's great work for this trade. One question I have for you. Can you just run one 16-2 from a junction to your switched power (use to be a receptacle now I want it to be a light) can i just tie into the power neutral with my switches neutral then run my hot to the switches hot to make it work. It's working right now but what makes it dangerous.
Can you show how to wire a switch loop with a duplex and split receptacle between the light and switch?
Hello, i am having issues wiring my garage... i am running my lighting circuit. First, i wanted to run my power feed from the panel, to a junction box (which will split towards a motion activated flood light that is continuously powered, split to the garage door opener, and split to a switch to power separate work bench lights).. my first junction box split is as such... panel box, to junction box, to motion activated flood light (always powered), to light switch, to ceiling lights for garage. I wired hot to hot and neutral to neutral and ground to ground at the JB and the motion flood light, then i ran Down to the switch to where the circuit will be broken to turn off/on the ceiling lights when needed. I pig tailed the 2 neutrals at the switch and connected the hot wires into the switch, and also connected the grounds. I didn’t wire in any ceiling lights from the switch yet, but i turned my breaker back on and the flood light connection box keeps popping and sparking when the breaker is flipped on.... what do i have wrong here?
I don’t want to break the circuit until after the flood light, once the circuit hits the switch for the ceiling lights.
Hello Dustin, I'm really glad to have found and enjoyed your video(s)! Could your 'switch loop' wiring be a similar principle to wiring a 'half hot' receptacle? I'm desiring to change an under-the-sink switched receptacle to a 'half hot' receptacle for a new dishwasher installation. Problem is... the 12/2 from the circuit breaker panel is running to the (abv counter) switch first, with a black to the bottom (off) side of switch (with the two whites wire-nutted together up in the switch box), and then a black running from the top (on) side of switch....into identical 12/2 romex (one black, one white, one bare ground) running down to the switched receptacle. So, the problem as I see it, there's no 3-wire running down to the receptacle, i.e. no red (3rd) wire to split the hot power. Question: Is there any way to still turn the receptacle into a 'half hot' receptacle....with only the 12/2 romex running down to it from switch? Thanks so very much if you've the time to reply! ;)
Hey what’s the box fill on that shallow pan
In the interest of expediency I will always.put. the neutral in the switch box,,,if you needed to troubleshoot the circuit you will not need a ladder,,,,but if the neutral is in the fixture,then that entails having to get a ladder and dismantling the fixture,,,,,that's too much work,,,.
Sup man. Love you work and love this channal too 👍
Great explanation, thanks!
So what is the main purpose of doin it like that vs the other way?