Cheating in Competitive Melee
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- I do not condone cheating, nor do I condone harassment toward any individual, named or otherwise, featured in this video. Please behave yourselves.
Also note that the changes to Pichu shown off in the video are approximations based on the following posts, which are both first-hand testimonies of the hacked version of the game:
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That Pichu player really gave him a smash 4 Cloud Up air
I didnt even finish the video and I knew he would get mentioned. Dude was at my locals lol
Well s4 cloud with instead of a disjoint full imoraltality durring the moves hitbox being out so a better s4 cloud up air AND THATS SAYING SOMTHING.
It doesn't even have the ridiculous hitbox below him. It does have invincibility in exchange though.
Up air wasn't changed outside of the invinciblity.
@@carson3526 no it had its hitbox grown by almost 3 times.
A little known fact about the Pichu player is that he later went on to sneak into Nintendo headquarters and discretely alter the code of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as revenge, resulting in Pre-Patch Pichu
I agree with that comment
Actually?
@@zaneplayx3176 probably not, but given the man is from Ohio, i wouldnt completely disregard that possibility, even if it is just a meme
I kinda love the fact that i got pre patch pichu for a bit
@@Rezim942 Ohio moment
I really like how you classify assaulting your opponent as a technique
Believe it or not, it was an actual problem. Screaming in peoples ear was a workaround for a short while, but also got banned.
@@cfino9 As far as I know, the only workaround is mashing buttons as loudly as you can to throw off your opponent, but with how clicky Gamecube controllers are, I doubt the tech is worth a damn in Smash. Legal and effective in more traditional fighters though.
@@CoralCopperHead its why a lot of SF players prefer using negative edge for projectile inputs as releasing a button is much quieter than pressing one
In my youth, it was considered a valid tech, but only against Mortal Kombat uppercut juggles.
It probably wasn't tournament-legal, but the idea of video game tournaments being a serious thing was still distant.
Hey, as long as it works !
I love the spooky lead up and reveal to... “master hnad”
ah yes. master H N A D
Master Huge-Nimble-Appendage-Disembodied
AKA the dread Master HNAD
"mister hend"
The pichu player probably just ported pre-patch ultimate pichu into melee.
a man way before his time
They gutted Pichu lmao
some say "hacked" some say "patched"
From the Wii? His dad must've worked at Nintendo
and it's the launch pichu back in 1.0.0
Ken's response to that Pichu incident is still rather hilarious.
"The best part is that he could've just played Pikachu"
His tag was xChaos/Chaos
Aye. the range, the weight, the fact that it hurts itself....
The main problem is that everyone has seen enough Pikachu to know something is up. With Pichu, if you never played casually you may have legit never seen this version of Pichu played before.
@@givecamichips I think that what Ken was trying to say is that if you want to play a stronger version of pichu, then you don’t have to cheat. You can just play pikachu instead
@@TheIdiothead Well yeah, obviously. But the guy made Pichu better than Pikachu.
@@givecamichips who me?
Nice, sleek editing. No eyesore, no forced gags and memes, just straight to the point with some light humor.
Wait he isnt dead
He hearted hes alive
"Fox prayed from bottom of his heart"
"HIYAAAAAAAA"
That got me laughing
one could say he called upon a HIYAAAAA power
@@GP423 +2
“Cheating”
“Intelligent bypass of the rule set”
I wouldn't call hacking your main's weight so fox can waveshine you across Battlefield intelligent.
@@maxbasilone3026 p sure waveshining is based on traction, not weight or fall speed. Peach is one of the lightest and floatiest characters and is also one of the easiest to waveshine. Increasing Pichu's fall speed is overall a buff imo but there are some downsides
@@Forthelemon nope it's based on weight, anyone lower than marths weight can't get waveshined, Peach is above marth.
@@LuigiLitoLL oh wow ok I had no idea
@@Forthelemon 6:12
Ahh, yes the only character in this game that’s banned. “Master Hnad.”
If I played melee I would main fighting polygon (male) and fight for him to be recognized by the community and he put at the bottom of every tier list.
Every game has a character who either gets banned or is considered for a ban. Master Hnad, Meta Knihgt, Bayonteta...
i was gonna type that lol
@@siddarthselvarajan2667 rip
Crazy hand: am I a joke to you!?
In case anyone was wondering, ledge grabs are counted and displayed in the results screen after the match ends, so no, you don't have to review the footage and count to be sure. The Melee devs really thought of everything*!
6:54
Those hands mean nothing to the average person, but people in the melee community can feel their aura
The way this guy buffed Pichu and thought no one would notice has me DYING
Lol he forcing everyone to play his busted game was hilarious enough
Lmfao 😹
True!!! But to think there is already a character in the game that can kill you at 30%
Changing the forward smash damage is the most ludicrous for me. Like, sure, extending hit boxes and ending lag, that's something that might pass unnoticed. Some characters have jank hit boxes. But come on dude, people are going to notice when your smash does literally double the percent damage that is clearly visible on screen.
Hollow
@@Jotari honestly he should have gone the full mile and just make all of his moves kill at zero since the bastard thought no one would find it off that his f-smash killed at 35.
Makes me wonder how that Pichu player thought he wouldn't get caught when he made such massive and noticeable changes to the character
honestly had he just kept his cool he wouldn't have gotten caught in the first place. The idea was genius and no one would of expected it in a million years, at least until he got to majors
He was probably just doing it for the lulz
He could have done it if he used pichu as a secondary and did freindlys with his main Its as simple most low or bottem tiers are so underused most people dont know there hitboxes in the moment off the top of there heads
Ok that F Smash easily could have given it away KILLING EARLYER THAN FULL CHARGE TIPPER MARTH ok thats obvious.
@@Newbmann Yeah, that's the thing that got me the most. Hitboxes? Sure, they looked a little jank but nobody pays attention to stuff like that on low tiers. F-Smash killing full screen at 20%? Nobody's gonna buy that for a second.
cheaters are not really people to put in effort to cover their tracks, I mean they didn't put the effort to just try their best without cheats.
4:25 “Master Hnad”
Guys, he's been active on Twitter for awhile. He just took a small break but recently got back into making videos. And a video is planned to go up very soon.
Let’s go
Thanks, I was honestly starting to think something serious might've happened since this channel hasn't seen any activity in 4 months and I don't have Twitter.
6:04 - 6:21 What the Ohio Melee community found out was that Pichu’s goggles are heavy as hell.
They also found that Pichu has a invisible Buster sword and that added to his weight.
@@raulphilipgoco403 And that weight allowed him to tech faster and make his forward smash as thick as a bull's head
bro has tungsten in his goggles
Imagine playing a set on a hacked version of Melee and Mew2King goes up to you, puts his hand on your shoulder and goes "That's one interesting Pichu you got there..."
Hacker: Like my F-smash?
M2K: You will expose our secrets if you keep this up. Play some friendlies and stop forward smashing.
Hungry box: Teehee, the Edge removed 59 seconds off the timer.
I mean he is the original frame data miner
@@aetherius6221 He didn't data mined the frames, he measured them in game by pausing repetitively.
@@laytonjr6601 more in concept than literally but yeah
I'd sweat bullets
4:44 For his side special, he wields a gun.
I've literally never played a game of melee in my life but your content is really entertaining :)
These 3D model edits are so good I’m starting to become suspicious that they’re the reason it takes a while for a video to come out
what are you talking about?
I think he’s joking, implying he thinks the smash bros models are animated by asum himself.
@@nyatrue401 oh ok, that makes some sense
Whoops my bad, meant to say “edits” instead of animations, either way it’s still really good editing
Conspiracy Theory: AsumSaus works really hard on his videos.
I don't know, man. That's pretty out there.
when he makes a new video i think: "that´s it there´s nothing else left on melee" but he keps surprising me and i like it
Something new with Melee everytime, from a completely new combo (like what Armada did to leffen that one time) to a new historical event in Melee, for a 2-decade year old game it's surprising how new it gets.
And when the world needed him most, he vanished.
Missing him badly Right Now
Do you know where he went?
@@runic3338 He posted a video teaser some time ago but not much has been heard from him otherwise.
Boy do I have some news for you
@@shromp2034 Yeah I saw the new video. Worth the wait.
Ah yes, my favorite method of cheating at melee
"Assaulting your opponent"
I know it's happened in MTG once or twice. There's a couple people with lifetime bans from all organized tournaments because of assaulting either other attendees, or tournament staff.
If people can stab each other over playing cards or painted plastic (or resin... or... *shudders* finecast) figurines, they can start doing the same over a video game.
@Agamemnon2 Better than Jeremy who got lifetime banned for helping expose pedos.
I mean wasn't there that one Brawl money match against an ice climber main, who got out of chain grabs by repeatedly screaming in the guy's ear?
@@Saltyoven
In his ear*
move your ear then it ain’t hard to wobble
I'm just imagining a match between two Master Hands looking like a very complicated handshake.
Unfortunately, if I read this correctly, master hand can only be played by player 3 so sadly two players can't both be the hand.
@@lily_littleangel This makes me wonder, is it possible for one player to be Master Hand and another player to be Crazy Hand?
@@Kapenguin448 Using a Pro Action Replay, it is possible to allow Players to play as Both Master hand, and Crazy Hand, yes. And like Master Hand; Crazy Hand is fully actionable.
In Addition; some moves cause Master Hand to produce Sparks, and freeze. This is actually the trigger for Crazy Hand to do a dual tech, and if he uses the same ability that Master Hand did to generate the sparks; he will use the Dual Tech with him (Either the Double Clap, Double Punch, or Knuckleduster).
Currently, there is no known legit way to unlock Crazy Hand. The Master Hand method is a glitch caused by proceeding to the selection screen without picking a character; which then selects a default value in the code, which happens to be Master Hand. Perhaps one day, someone will figure out a way to trigger Crazy Hand the same way.
@@Kohchuthe Crazy Hand is real!
0:24 "Something with Merit" *shows melee*
Pichu: G tier
Pichu with cheats: SSSSSSS tier
Great video as always! Regarding tournaments, hacking will never work in a substantial way. Once pools start there are people on all setups and Pool Captains watching over. Most pools also have 4 setups. So if they did sneak their game on it they would be suspect if they didn't listen to the pool captain to play on an open setup and continually asked to play on one. They'd likely be denied as the pool needs to be finished in a timely manner too. Also, Stream setups would never have this happen to them. So if someone did sneak it in, they'd get a buff for a round or 2 and it's just not worth being banned from the entire community for a few cheap wins. This is why the one Pichu player at a local is the only recorded version of this type of cheating (that I know of at least.)
Let's hope it stays at the one Pichu player.
If I was to do something like this, I wouldn't even buff anyone specifically. I'd just jank up the game a little and make people think the game was just bugging
This may be true, for larger tournaments at least. But for smaller tournaments or locals without pools or anything, especially those where people find their own matches, it is more likely to be an issue, and while thousands of dollars won't be on the line, there is still money to be won or lost. I think the reason there hasn't been another case is because either nobody who would be willing to cheat knows how to not get caught and they don't want to risk being banned, or this has happened more in isolated incidents that people don't talk about or maybe didn't even realize at the time. The point is, people still need to be careful and have a solution in mind, just in case.
Guess I’ll head back to the lab again to find a better method...
There are cases where people could cheat without it being immideatly noticeable. If anyone remembers 0.9x knockback incident, it's not completely unlikely for someone to modify a setup in such a slight way where it wasn't immideatly noticeable
Just got finish binging all your videos. I don’t even care for most of the subjects but you have perfected the art of film making. Literally cannot stop watching your content.
Hi omni
lay yourself omni
yeah dude this is exactly what I was thinking (: I'm the same, never got into smash but I always love well-crafted media made by someone who clearly cares deeply for whatever interest it is
What kind of weirdo watches videos where they don't care about the subject? You are strange, but certainly there is content out there that is better for your strange tendencies.
@@Kyoko_ what a silly thing to say. how do you find new things? how does your taste evolve? You’re the strange one, big fella
Great video, found your channel yesterday and can’t stop watching. I’m an Ultimate player but this makes me wish Nintendo would step up and support the Melee community. You guys are super dedicated and it sucks to see so many fixable issues-port priority and Luigi’s down special from one of your other videos blew my mind.
Interesting and entertaining as always, great video; probably my favorite music choices out of any other on the channel.
good ol days of botting in runescape and running hacks on minecaft
i miss you daddy luvdix
Oh so he does exist still
Whats good ludvix?
Wait? You're alive?
We miss you. We love you dad.
"Or assulting them"
Great technique, use it all the time
I'm a big proponent of the slapping-controller-out-of-hand technique.
I beat them up in the game if they piss me off in real life.
If I like them, I spam grabs so I can hug them to death.
Too bad snake isn't in Melee.
And the end of the day, Smash is a variation of sports, and real life sports can get physical. You have someone right next to you you're trying to beat, and we're human. Emotions can get the better of us.
Point being, I'm a bit surprised there haven't been more instances of physical assault at a Smash tournament.
Can't lose to your opponent if you Epstein them with the controller cord
@@nahor88 the fear
I just watched everything asumsaus has to offer, coming for you archivesaus!
I had no idea Master Hand was a playable character in Melee, and my brother and I wore that disk out back in the day.
Considering it's only possible with a glitch, I'm guessing the controls were probably implemented for testing during development and were just left in because it was supposed to be inaccessible anyway. Iirc if you have no character selected when a match starts it uses id 0 which is master hand
I'm a TO from NEOH and it's actually become sort of common practice for TOs here to provide setups most of the time. We don't actually have hard rules about it, but for the weeklies we were running prior to the pandemic we had about 30 modded wiis and a decent number of CRTs stored at our venue. Whenever we run larger events we do allow players to bring their own setups, but they need to comply to our rules about them and are run off of our memory cards. It's not really possible to completely avoid the possibility of cheating at larger events, but with all these things in place it makes it pretty difficult.
Also I just want to add that I am the only player from our PR at the time who has a 2-0 record over super pichu.
Huh, so how does being a TO Work, really?
Also, A Positive record against Super Pichu, that's really good.
@@thegreenitalianmachine5411 that's a pretty big question, there are a lot of different aspects to TOing. Running smaller weeklies and stuff is pretty self explanatory, but with bigger events you need to devote a lot more focus into advertisement and figuring out how to get your community interested.
@Stevean2 If the players fall for it, what can the TO do, drag them in?
@@KopperNeoman He's talking about COVID, I'm sorry to say.
Bless you
No one talking about when Hbox had his mom win for him...
Turns out Armada also had a stand-in playing that match for him cause he was too busy grinding for 70 star PBs instead. They just replayed the match later.
also b0nd played for n0ne and scorpion marster played for mang0
hungrybox was in need of a major comeback
I have nothing witty to add but Dante your icon is godlike LMAO
jman2050 Context?
My favorite video of yours by far. Can literally watch this over and over
I hope you don’t stop finding interesting ssb things to talk about however, I would watch most any game you talk about with this level of production and analysis; keep going mr.sauce!
The Pichu cheater could've just upped the hitbox, and damage a lil bit, and probably decrease the end lag for a few frames and no one will detect him, instead of increasing everything to the extreme.
In that case he probably wouldn't have won, though. Pichu is a terrible character.
Sadly it wouldn't have been enough. Pichu is THAT bad
exactly
go pichu, and zap to the extreme
He was just that bad
“Master Hnad”
Master Hnad
Master Hnad
Hnad
Master Hnad
ZA HANDO
1:40 That Jigglypuff transition was slick.
3:15 "which was also the last time a mario player won anything"
WHO'S LAUGHING NOW HUH
Why you gotta do us like that :(
Can someone explain?
@@windy2478 it’s a reference to his last video iirc
It is so crazy to have one of my friends through the competitive melee scene growing up be so infamous for cheating w/ Pichu lmao. I stg I was the first person to play against super pichu but didn't know it at the time.
Wow
Lmao super pichu 🤣
Know anything about it? What was this dude’s motive lol
@@memenazi7078 he was probably trolling
@@memenazi7078 Mental & family issues, used the game as an escape
4:36 nice Earthbound reference.
I love all your little background Easter eggs
6:38 I almost expected you to say "He was hired as a developer for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate"
Hey, it's that guy!
@@magneticflux- (he made all known deaths on icarly)
The Ultimate iceberg
That cheater's name? Albert Einstein.
Implying Nintendo likes either the Melee community or People who make mods
*Fox has left the game (VAC Banned from secure server)*
*Pichu has left the game (VAC Banned from secure server)*
Bold of you to assume VAC actually works
"imagine your hacks being so bad that Vac detects them"
This post was made by MYGOT gang
bot rolled
Hahhaha guys please laugh I'm making a source reference lmaoooo XD engineer gaming
@@nuulcoolpro and what did ya wanted me to make?
a Easy Anti-cheat reference??
Please, AsumSaus. Give me a sign that you still exist.
imgur.com/a/dfTwJem
Dudes just vibing
😀
I message him over patreon and nothing...
CZcams comments: real shit lol
@@petephelp971 it worked tho.
This editing tho 👌
I don't cheat. I'm just THAT good.
Why the fuck you llllyyyyyin (IDC If it's ded)
ok
I dont cheat either. Im just not good
He isn't cheating. He just have a really good gaming chair.
I cheat. Im just *that* bad.
Yes! Another video from the best creator. Some of the best content on CZcams, keep it up 👍🏼
The song choices on these videos are always awesome
Bring back the videos! This is the best melee content channel!
Imagine unironically still saying "Wavedashing is just cheating and a glitch!" when an actual cheating glitch involves freezing the player animation with Ice Climbers or playing as Master Hnad.
czcams.com/video/GChcjSvTtWE/video.html using freeze glitch on your own teammate to edgeguard Fox
Not only for offense, it's for defense too!
ICs freeze glitch was patched in latest melee patch, while wavedashing was not
Wait there are people that consider it a glitch?? Wave-dashing is definitely just an exploit as it's using an intended feature (directional dodging) an in unintended way (directional dodging towards the ground to keep you moment without any lag)
@@mangaprofilepicture5820 sweet summer child
@@YounesLayachi why would you patch something thats not a glitch lmao
That hacked Pichu really has bigger hitboxes than most characters in the game.
the fact that when playing with master hand you can say "and for his side special, gun" and press B + left/right
I actually love your grunt and scream sound effects
Imagine being the dude who came into a tournament with a modded Project M just to have custom skins and no modified attacks and gets banned.
Doesn't most tourneys use a custom build of PM anyways?
@@jakedadoge1820 Exactly, modifications to the PSAs themselves rather than to costumes.
@@ChainChomp Does the "Check the framedata" forbid characters like Scott Pilgrim over Lucas and/or Cloud over Ike?
@@ERRORDownBad If those aren't costumes, then IDK how could you sneak that.
Going to PM tournaments with custom mods is completely normal tho
4:25 hand is spelled wrong. Awesome video man. I really love the effort you put into the thumbnails and covering topics most people in the community don't talk about.
I've seen this video a good couple of times, and I've never noticed that once. I guess the editing is so good I just didn't see it.
Where did AsumSaus go?
check his Twitter
this was awesome man great video
He's still here! Idk if you'll see this Asumsaus but your an amazing CZcams channel
@@jdp7938 yeah man I can't believe he liked my comment so quickly after lol. just wanted to show some support its nice he saw it
@@pasta-and-heroin indeed
your videos are so well made. amazing job dude
sorry bout yer jets this year, pad
all I know is pain@@cheesewizz_
I was today years old when I heard Dean Harrington say "Master Hayn"
I watched this video nearly every week since it came out waiting for the next video
The exact moment you turned off the GameCube in the video, my video buffered. Perfect timing
even though i don't play melee and never plan to competitively, i love your editing and humor! subscribed for it!
Dude these videos are insanely high quality. I barely even play melee and Im obsessed. Great work
All your videos are beautifully edited. I like the part at 5:13 of falco
1:08
I read that as "Stalling, or excessively delaying the Game and Watch"
6:21
If Pichu was a DLC character
Honestly I'm actually kinda impressed by how sneaky that Pichu player was
Your content is very good. It reminds me of that other late youtuber who did nintendo/melee content
Literally listened to tons of your videos while working, then got home and played a bunch of games with you on Slippi last night. I was the marth with the tag "stingy" GG's! Love the vids.
Was already getting bored of watching your other videos repeatedly.
Jokes aside, I'm always super glad to see your high quality uploads!
Cheers
As someone who doesn't play melee at all, your vids are just so awesome and entertaining that it encourages me to start playing melee more.
Melee is sick and super fun to get into, I highly recommend it.
i love how ur videos get straight to the point
Absolutely love the Mother 2/Earthbound references with Master Hand.
Love the sly Cooper music in the back. Nostalgia.
Dude, loved the Sly 3 soundtrack in the video. Venice Espionage fit WAY more well than I thought. Ironically played during the hackrd Pichu game. Should definently play more of it in the future! Keep up the banger work! 👌
It was actually the Sly 4 song "I smell a rat". Still awesome regardless
@@charKT-7461 by that standward would that song be based on Venice Espionage? Sounds exactly the same. Lol
Dude I love your voice and your editing is so good and plus I like the game now because.
are you ever gonna upload again
No he has covered every single part of this game
Fully expected you to talk about sunglasses Juan "reading" down throw DI by peaking at his opponents controllers like a real champ
When you said Master Hand was the only banned accessible character, I loved the implication that Giga Bowser would be tourney legal, so I went to refresh my memory on if that name glitch thing can let you play as him too.
Found a video where Mew2king came across a Giga Bowser in some online Melee thing, and on the fly devised an anti-Giga strat to beat him soundly in the rematch.
Well fuck me then.
Dude, you have had impeccable video creation for years. I can tell your skill has grown in your later videos, but hot dog your older videos still hold that amazing content creation skill. This channel sits high above so many other channels with so many more subs. I am not into melee. Not really anyways. Haven't played since I was a kid. However, I'm glued to every video you have made. The mark of a true creator.
Ikr were so blessed to have such amazing content creators
Absolutely great taste in outro music my friend. Thieves in Time was an awesome game.
Of course there will always be some cheating when there’s money involved, especially in Esports!
Yeah I guess but just one guy at a local in the almost 20 years this game has been out with no way to cheat online other than lag switchs is pretty solid. I pretty much only play smash and its crazy to me that pretty much every prodigy in non fighting games gets accused of being a cheater for the first year of there competitive life. You cant even stream snipe or anything because they see the same thing as you. Some times I'm really thankful I got into Melee expectually with roll back online now. You dont have to worry about a troll ruining the experience for like 10 people at a time.
@@zzzlucid_dreams7560
That actually surprised me that there are very little cases of actual cheating in Melee’s tournament history and only one worthy of mentioning! Even the “wobbling” and “Luigi ladder” exploit shouldn’t be classified as “cheating” because they are in-game exploits and only counted as such by tournament rule-makers.
Legend has it that this video was the cause of competitive hacking, which has now risen by 30000%.
i could believe this. ive actually been worried about iso modding for a while lol
Dude your channel is awesome, you even have more subscribers than Mang0, keep up this gold content!!
Yeeash this video editing is high tier. Lemme sub king
That last one reminds me of some of the issues with cheating we've had in competitive amiibo
0:35 Jokes on you I already sold my soul.
I tried to but all he offered was 62 cents
I sold my soul to the devil without even knowing what im gonna get
@@TheWorldsLargestOven lootboxes really are getting insane
What do you use to edit?
I don’t even play melee but this is my favorite smash channel
where did you go
He's back!
0:57 lol i just watched Rocky III last night too haha perfect timing
Best one!
I don’t even play melee but I watch lol, that’s how good these vids are
Straight up, I would love to just see a series where you just play Netplay or something and talk for a while. A podcast type of thing, y'know
i’ve never played melee, but im obsessed with these
2:02 you can feel the unbridled rage with those sfx LMAO