I always want to support the team you brought a product to market and did innovated stuff over the guy who is just benefitted off of someone else's work.
Just wondering whether the local company will support its buyers by offering better prices when it’s clear that the tools CAN be made well at much lower prices. The local tools should actually be CHEAPER since they don’t have to spend on import duties and other taxes. I’m all for supporting “honest” local businesses which care for the community but often local companies and businesses use their monopoly to abuse pricing and only shape up when they have competition. It’s the same in every field whether it’s automotive, electronics, power tools, construction business etc.
@@GtubeVideos I feel that buying cheaper copies always eventually turns out badly. The imported tools always (in my experience) cut corners. I don't want a 'it's good enough tool' if I can have a first rate tool (or any 'lifetime' product) for a few bucks more. Especially if it supports more local producers, especially if they have a real commitment to making high quality products and to contributing improvements and innovations.
@@artswri well, that’s the whole point of Rob’s video. He concludes that there is almost no difference in the actual performance OR the build of the tool apart from few minor cosmetic differences. I’d appreciate if people still want to go ahead and buy a more expensive item just because they’re fans of a brand but then why even watch a comparison video like this if you can’t have an open mind about other alternatives? I personally don’t have any love towards any brand - I prefer a competitive market because that’s the only kind of market that drives innovation. These hand tools are a prime example - Stanley made the same planes for decades with minimal innovation until LN came in with some different approaches. Now LN is doing the same thing selling the same designs for decades and eventually someone new will come and replace them.
Too bad the Lie Nielsen large open throat has been out of stock for months with no ETA in sight. I've been waiting for an email from them for at least 6 months to get my hands on one.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Lie Nielsen tool is locally made is the best choice for me. This is a lifetime tool so $50.00 is not a deal breaker for quality.
My thoughts exactly. $50 for a lifetime tool to support a local business should not be a stretch for folks that do fine woodworking as a hobby, let alone as their profession.
Benchdog is currently 75 dollars cheaper and it's actually in stock. Not a counterpoint but production issues are a problem with the premium brands at the moment.
@@sfshilo Rockler putting on sale a plane that Rob was going to review... Hmmm. They've sold at least 3 today because of his review. (buyer reviews) Availability is everything.
I have had a large Veritas Router Plane for a decade. It is an extraordinary tool. I think it is worth far more than I paid for it. I am sure the same is true of the Lie-Nielsen router plane, as well. If the Bench Dog plane is close in performance to these two planes, then I would regard it as a good value, especially for the beginning wood worker. Nice review. Thank you!
Love your video's Rob and from a US Marine veteran I deeply thank you and all your dedicated staff for the Purple Heart Project. After watching this shoot-out I purchased the Bench Dog. Let me say I did not have the same out of the box experience you did in so far as flatness and a square edge on the cutter. Being from Maine, I should have just driven to Lie Nielsen and purchased the tool I wanted. Lesson learned...again. So, after our great grand daughter's swing set project, someone will be getting a tuned up bench Dog and I'll get that Lie Nielsen. Thanks again Rob. Back to the bench!!!
I have said it once I’ll say it again, buy once cry once. Save your money and buy the best, Lie Nielsen. Great video Rob and Jake. Oh, and you too Luther!
To be fair it looked like the copy cat was worthy from a use standpoint. This it where all the “buy local made” people need to put their money where their mouth is. Seems like the only compelling reason to go with LN is to support their business that made what the copycat stole and support local people. For me that will be reason enough whenever I get a router plane, but I don’t think everyone who says buy local with follow through.
Rob. I've watched many of your reviews, and the thing I like about them is that you are honest and frank with your assessment of the item which you are reviewing. You call it as you see it, and that is a great quality. Your teaching of skills is also spot on for the person being instructed. (I am a former teacher and can see a good teacher. Honesty and clarity are keys) I appreciate all that you do for the vets as well as for the woodworking community. Thank you.
To be truly honest, frank and do a complete review of this tool, the Veritas alternative must be included . In Canada the Veritas retails at $239.00. The LN at $250. PLUS a 41% exchange rate, plus shipping, plus taxes and duties. Comparison of a LN versus LV, look hard at the different features and you will realize Veritas is a winner in my book. The BD a distant third.
The LN will hold its value better if you had to resell it. Going off on a tangent though I have the Veritas router plane. I like the angled handles. I also like how the blade detaches for sharpening. I would agree the LN has a superior depth adjuster, but I haven’t had a problem with mine.
Maybe I'm just missing them, but I don't think I've seen many reviews of the Veritas stuff on this channel. Makes me wonder if there isn't some bad blood between Mr. Cosman and his Canadian brethren at Veritas.
@@GM-gc8gg not so much bad blood as simple loyalty to his sponsor Woodcraft. That's understandable, though I personally won't buy any WC Chinese mfr goods.
@@thwwoodcraft1449 Hear what what you are saying, but: 1) Woodcraft doesn't make or even sell a router plane as far as I can tell, so what's the harm of reviewing the Lee Valley "domestic" product, and 2) Lee Valley's "domestic" stuff seems to be more in the league of Lie-Nielsen than Woodcraft and Mr. Cosman doesn't have any problem reviewing Lie-Nielsen even when it provides direct competition for the Woodcraft product.
I think a better comparison would be contrasting the Veritas with the LN. In my opinion, LN copies Stanley but has high quality standards, Veritas Improves on old designs and also has high standards.
I am totally satisfied with ALL my LN tools...I just bought the LN router plane this week and can't wait to use it. I don't mind spending the extra 50 for the tool either. Local companies get my money, and besides quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten...
I was about to order the Bench Dog router plane but after this video I am ordering the LN. I will gladly play a bit more for the original rather than the copy, specially if locally produced. I shop regularly at the local stores and only go to the big box stores as a last resort. Thank you Rob!
Seeing you work with your tools and talking about quality tools do quality work I completely agree with. I am doing projects on the side for family and friends at the moment but am hoping to expand as time progresses. I am hoping to add some of Lee Nielsen tools to my shop down the road as I progress. As you mentioned where they were made that solidified my choice. I want to help those domestically to keep jobs local. That is worth the cost to me. Enjoy watching your videos and keep up the good work.
Living in Australia I too would pay the extra for the Lie Nielsen (my local brand). I wonder how it is that a copy can cost so much when the cost of labour is so different. It seems that rather than producing a product for a reasonable price they are looking at the market and seeing how much they can make on a copy. This may be fair enough if the people making the tool are also receiving a fair days pay. If we want quality tools from manufactures we trust and people who look to improve year on year then we must support them
Yeah definitely priced relative to what they copied rather than the lowest they could offer. Router planes are not something everyone will have and seen probably as more of a luxury than necessity, so they’re trying to price just low enough to get those people to reach for theirs.
@@UserNameAnonymous The LN have improvements in quality and features. The BD is an exact copy of LN, no value added. Moreover the LN fit and finish is well above the BD. I have repeatedly found the copycats to be rough and crude, which I find an unending source of displeasure each time I use one. By contrast I enjoy the feel and beauty of quality tools each time I use one. I am most willing to pay for that. I will do without / make do, and save up for a quality product.
@@artswri - Sure. LN copied 95% of Stanley's design. Bench Dog copied 95% of Stanley's design and 5% of LN's one minor improvement (depending on who you ask) of switching from a collar to a set screw. Using a set screw isn't exactly revolutionary. I support buying tools from LN and Veritas, but the "copycat" argument is very weak at best. LN copied 95% of the Stanley design, that doesn't make them bad. If we want to promote LN and Veritas, we need to do it the right way. If the only argument against BD was the copying, then I'd buy BD. Thankfully, there are way better reasons to support the premium brands.
I’m still a Miller’s Falls man. In so many ways I have found them to be of superior quality in workmanship and materials used. Heavy, well machined, balanced.
I used a router plane for the first time at The Unplugged Woodshop in Ontario. It has turned into a tool that I don’t know how I managed without it! I use Lie Nielsen all the time now.
The bench dog is currently $125 cheaper (holiday sale), performs just as well, and has no wait time. I know I’d be more proud to own a LN but that is getting really hard to pass up. What do others think?
As of April 2022 Lie Nielsen is now a 225$ plane and this is still 125$. So it's now a 100$ difference... The Veritas plane is also still under 200$ as well.
There is something to be said of the refinement of Lie-nielsen. I understand the affordability aspect at the same time. I agree with your assessment; I would get the Lie-Nielsen for the same reasons.
I pride myself in my 6 decades of woodworking and my workmanship and especially my tools from Tom Lie Neilsen who has stood by and with me and I stand by him 100% as I do with Rob Cosman and his tools, simply none better at any price and 2 finer people you'll never meet; also have to add Tom Mclaughlin to that exclusive list.
One issue not mentioned with LN right now is the loooooooooooong wait for any tools right now. Probably due to scaling back operations due to Covid. Whatever the reason, Prices on ebay are absolutely ridiculously high since LN has slowed down to a crawl at the moment.
Good luck getting a mortise chisel from LN I gave up and went with Narex doubt I will ever bother again. And after watching this I got a bench dog router plane for $103 compared to $225.
@@summerwind4590 I looked them up. LN is now $225 to $250 depending on the model. The Benchdog is 139.99. I would personally rather buy American to support a small American company even if it's a bit more. But with inflation putting a major squeeze on the wallet, the Benchdog is very tempting. I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for going that direction.
Thanks for the review, at the sale price of $99, I ordered the Bench dog. I'm a woodworker, not a collector, it's just a tool to me. Your bias is a little unfair however. You praise Lee Neilson tools for quality and innovation and bash the copy a bit, yet use foreign made Wood River planes. Just a bit hypocritical. But I still like your reviews.
Let me explain since I was expecting this to come up. LN copied Stanley bedrock planes, WR copied Stanley bedrock planes. WR made improvements, as an example, look at the top of the yoke, original to WR.
I'd take a Veritas over either. I'd also take a vintage Stanley over the Bench Dog. In the end were talking about a concealed surface so maybe I buy and old Stanley and clean it up, but if you want the best Veritas has that for the router plane.
For me they both appear high quality. The major factor then becomes the sharpness and edge retention of the blade. The advantage of pulling the router over pushing it is it helps to keep the sole from rotating. I have the Veritas and a Bosch router!
Good video, Rob. Ironically, I just found my grandfathers Stanley the other day. I had it out, tuned up the blades and started flattening the bottom of the plane. The sole has some pretty deep scratches in it; but none seem to have sharp edges or burrs. I also started flattening the bottom a bit and found it has nice registration on the front and back but seems hollow ground in the middle. Should I be concerned about that? My two cents is the Lie Nielsen. A real company; they sponsor events, provide assistance to make the craft better (like assisting your efforts with the vets.) Doing that kind of stuff cost money. Just building the tool to be acceptable sometimes isn't enough.
I could be wrong, and just bad timing, but it's been a while since I saw a LN in stock. Availability being equal, I'll go LN every time. That said, also have the Veritas and love it. For the same reasons others have said.
I prefer local quality and am willing to pay for it. If price was to drive all decisions quality inevitably drops off. I'm a firm beliver in you get what you pay for and buyer beware.
Following up on my last post. First Bench Dog router plane was returned due to a crooked blade mount. Received a second one which was better in that the blade mount was straight but had a significant high spot in the center (think Rob got lucky with his example). Worked quite bit to get it quasi flat but not perfect. I believe there is quite a bit of flex in the body. At any rate, with a wider platform base bolted to it and a good sharpening, it worked pretty well and I figured I'd just live with the shortcomings. Except that a couple weeks later, I received an email from Lie Nielsen that they had a very limited supply of open faced router planes in stock. I successfully ordered it within a couple hours of the email. (checked again the next morning and they were out again) Just received it last week. NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE! Perfect in every way ... even the blade was completely usable out of the box. I didn't set out to do my own side by side comparison but that's what happened. I could live with a few cosmetic differences but that's not what I experienced at all. If you're thinking of going with the BD, just save your money and get on LN's list (or go to that Canadian company that shall not be mentioned), and be done with it. :--)
Ran across this video in my search for a decent beginner router plane that will only see occassional use. Thanks for your honest feedback. LN must have upped their prices fairly significantly recently. Everywhere I've looked, it's priced at $225 but, have not been able to find anywhere that has them in stock. The BD is currently $103 at the time I'm typing this. I'm all about spending a little extra to buy American made when possible but, I honestly couldn't justify the extra cost on this one. Looks like the Bench Dog is in my future. Thanks again for the vid. 👍
I'm seeing the same thing as of May '23. The LN is up to $225, and the BD price with coupon is about $125. After reading a number of reviews, it appears the BD has some QC issues in some cases (chipped irons, base not flat, etc). As I have a Rockler store nearby, I can inspect a plane for defects before I buy, so should be able to avoid obvious problems right out of the box. If the price delta was still $50, I'd go with the LN, but for $100, I'm leaning towards the BD. Veritas has a nice Canadian made closed throat model for about $190 that is a little more affordable option as well.
@@jamesberry5623 I bought the BD a few months ago. I am just a weekend warrior and this is my 1st and only router plane so I have nothing to compare it to. With that said, I have had zero issues with mine. I spent maybe 15-20 minutes flattening the bottom and sharpening the blade, then put it to work. Has been working great for me so far.
I do as well but BD is not one. Veritas is the equal of LN and made in Canada at a considerable price difference when Canadians consider the exchange rate, shipping and taxes. I like LN’s products but not will to pay the additional money for a name.
I have the bench dog, one issue I ran into is the brass square depth stop can break really easy. I was able to repair it, and I don't use it often, but it could be beefier. Other then that the router works just fine, and I was able to find other sized blades for it pretty easily.
Interesting. I've noticed the depth stop's apparent fragility and thought about what I'd do if I over tightened the brass screw and fractured the stop. While many "Quick & Dirty" fixes come to mind, I think I'd get another chunk of brass larger than the ⅝" x ⅝" x ¼" stop it comes with and do the simple metalwork to make the ⅜"square post hole. and, depending on the knurled set-screw's thread and tpi, either replace it with another or use it as is. {Remember, there's a fine difference between tightening just "Snug" enough and tightening to a "Snug & an Oops".)
Watched this not long after it came out, but now looking at it and comparing the price, the LN is just shy of double the cost ($110 more) of the BD now, so to me, unless you have $$$ to burn, the BD is the choice. I'll be adding the BD to my tool list and do the little bit of touch up work on the knobs and blade. Oh and to the copying thing, it looks like LN has now added a brass depth stop similar to the BD, so fairs fair I guess.
Good review of the two tools. Thank you. After seeing your review of one of the Bench Dog bench planes in which the Bench Dog faired poorly, I was surprised to see how well their router plane did in your assessment. I agree for a $50 difference, I would by the higher quality and original engineering of Lie Nielsen. However, the Lie Nielson is currently selling for $225, while the Bench Dog is $140 at Rockler. Also, with Rockler's recent 20% sale on one item of your choosing, I was able to get the Bench Dog for $112 and free shipping. So, for a $113+ difference, I had to go with the Bench Dog. On the other hand, you have sold me on WoodRiver bench planes, so I have a 5-1/2 and 7 on order from Woodcraft (if only you could ship WoodRivers to the US!). Thanks for the honest and thorough reviews and other great videos.
I find it funny that after no appreciable difference is found Rob mentions made locally,,,,,where are the Wood river planes made?? There is a complete set behind you on the wall. One would think you should have been able to pay a extra 50$for a lie nelson....
He said in the video that it was made in India where as the LN was made in the USA. He was not making a video about what he is putting in his own person woodshop. I think it was meant to answer questions to those that are looking to save some money and don’t have LN size tool budget. $50 here and another $50 somewhere else and suddenly you have saved enough to buy another tool on a tight budget. I appreciate the video because I am very much a Buy Once, Cry Once person. But at least now I am crying with a slight smile on my face knowing that I am making the right choice getting the LN.
Good video. I like that there is a budget version of a quality tool available for those who need to watch their pennies, or even half pence. I purchased the Veritas router plane after about a year of bouncing back and forth with the Lie Nielson. I chose the Veritas because of the angled knobs and the two-piece cutting tool construction which makes sharpening a bit easier. It was a hard choice. I often start with a cheap tool to see how often I will use it. In this case, I went to a top end tool because I knew I would only buy once. I am very happy with the purchase, but am still second guessing. On another topic, it will help if we knew what the current bottom line cost is to bring a vet in to the Purple Heart workshop. You talk about tools and such, but I think it would help knowing the full cost per person.
This video sold a whole lot of Bench Dog router planes! And when the video dropped, Rockler had them on sale too! Was able to get one for $99, while LN has been out of stock for MONTHS now.
Got mine for less than $94.00 (+Governor Newsom's cut) in December of 2020 when they were regularly $124.99. Bottom is dead flat, blade shank housing dead-on vertical @90º, and it works like a charm. Wish I had more money to spend on the highest quality tools, but, as my mother used to say: "If wishes were fishes, we'd all go down the the sea and cast nets".(We do what we can with what we have and firnd ways to work around and/or smooth out the rough spots.)
Nice review, Rob. I picked up the Lie-Nielsen based on their reputation and previous experience with their tools. (Your recommendations were icing on the cake.) I'll always prefer a product made in the US, but since discovering your tools and certain other Canadian outlets, I've modified that mentality to a preference of "made in North America." :-)
Thanks for a fair and frank review. Getting a router plane has been on my list for quite a while. Now I know what to look for. Chosing between these two is still difficult if I can look past the copy cat thing. Being an engineer as my day job I really can’t but pretending that isn’t an issue. For me woodworking is my hobby. I find I nearly always regret when I buy anything because it costs less and I have to look at and/or touch less refined fit and finish it is annoying. Being that I am not in a hurry to get one it’s worth waiting a little while simply to never say, “this feels rough” or “this looks like sloppy workmanship”. I want my shop time to be the best experience possible, it is where I choose to spend my very precious free time.
I'm with you Rob. In this market, you get what you pay for. Fit and finish does matter, especially as in indicator of overall quality. The clincher is domestic.
Good review, thanks for taking the time to make the comparison between the two. It might have been helpful to include an old Stanley or Record plane in good condition just to see how both the Benchdog and LN compare. For the $50 I would go with the tool made right here in the USA, plus the LN has a bit better fit and finish than the Benchdog version. In general I prefer US or Canadian made planes over others. Also, I've noticed you stay away from making comparisons to Veritas tools. I'm sure there is a reason but I've never heard an explanation as to why. I have a few of Veritas planes and find them to be as good quality as LN versions. Features set them apart sometimes but I think they both make quality tools.
Very helpful video. I’d just add that with the Bench Dog, there’s occasionally a 20% off coupon through Rockler that would make it a better value proposition. At $50 dollars, I’d probably go with the LN for the reasons Rob put forward.
Not anymore, Bench Dog RP is 139.99 and Lie-Nielsen is $250. I'll still buy the Lie-Nielsen but over $100 difference is a lot of money that could be spent on other tools or materials.
Great review, we are on the same page, LN has been doing a great job over the decades ensuring great tools are available and improving them. I’ll have to keep this in mind the next time I consider something from Rockler.
Great comparison Rob. I'm with you on this one and would gladly spend the extra fifty dollars to support a domestic company employing local folks. In my case, I have an old Millers Falls router plane that I enjoy.
Thanks for the review. I appreciate your observations. I may have missed a comment on this, but i didn't hear any mention of the tool steel used on the Bench Dog version. My guess is that it is 01 steel which is fine, but i think that A2 steel that's been cryogenically treated is an upgrade and more expensive to produce. That could be a part of the price difference. The handles on the Lie Nielson look like they have a nicer finish on them. cosmetic, but just a better looking tool and better fit and finish, IMO.
As they say 'you pay your money, you take your choice'. Nothing wrong with being loyal to local manufacturers or national manufacturers. However, don't they say immitation is the sincerest form of flattery and a high percentage of the Lie Nielsen is Stanley. To really make it their own they could have also changed the shape of the casting. $50 may not be much to some but as much as I think Rob really wanted the Lie Nielsen to be far better to justify its price, he struggled. One minute the deeper knurl on the screws are good for tightening especially if you have arthritis but in summing up they are crude. Five minutes with a file to soften the edges of the casting or sandpaper for the knobs is nothing. So, $50 dollars or more saved could buy someone a decent chisel or two.
Mr Cosman failed to note one significant difference between the two products: the Bench Dog has only one blade size. L-N will sell you an adapter for the large router that allows you to use their small router blades in it, so you can get a 1/4" blade into the large router for doing grooves for a drawer bottom. UPDATE: I bought the L-N closed throat router plane. It arrived much faster than I expected and it is terrific. You can feel the quality right out of the box and right out of the box it performed without any tuning. Just based on the performance I got from this tool right out of the box, I would say it's worth the extra $50 over the Bench Dog.
The blade in the Bench Dog looks to be identical in size to the LN. It seems you could buy the LN adaptor / smaller blade and use it in the Bench Dog. Not arguing in favor of the Bench Dog, just pointing out a potential work around. Edit: The open throat LN has be out of stock forever, while the closed throat is in stock. I've always wondered what's the biggest consideration when comparing open vs closed. I've thought about pulling the trigger on the closed throat but have noticed many if not most of my woodworking heroes use the open throat. It doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference but curious if there's something I'm missing.
@@philshock3805 I see your point; I don't know if the adapter is swappable. If it's off by a little bit in size, it won't work properly. The machining is very precise on the LN. As for open v closed throat, the way I hear it, the open throat is preferred for inlay work because it provides better visibility.
@@psiclops521 Thanks for the reply. Yeah, if it's not the same size all bets would be off. Looks identical though when Rob hold them side by side. Better visibility was always my thought about an open throat and better rigidity with the closed throat. I don't know if either one is an actual issue in day to day use but just wondered if there was something I missed. I've since seen several comments from Rob though where he suggests "either one would be fine". Still undecided over the L-N closed version vs the Bench Dog open throat. I get the point of supporting domestic companies but the BD is on sale for $99 (w/ free shipping). Now we're talking about an $85+ difference.
@@philshock3805 I bought the LN (closed) about a month ago. I've used it a little and it lives up to reputation right outta da box. If the blade size doesn't matter, I certainly see saving the money and buying the BD. It would just have to be exceptional to be as good as this LN.
I had a similar choice between the LN and Woodriver 5 1/2. I went for the LN, even though it was $125 more ($300 v $425) for some of the same reasons as you; LN is made in USA, Woodriver basically a copy (although a good one) of the LN. I do notice you recommend Woodriver a lot, and it being manufactured in China and basically a copycat of LN planes doesn't seem to bother you. I just purchased the Benchdog router plane as it was on sale for $97 vs the LN at $250. I spent the money on the LN 5 1/2 because I use it often for a lot of different operations, but with the price difference and the performance parity between the BD ad LN router planes, it's hard to justify the LN. I may pickup a small LN router plane in the future though.
Good review. As an expatriate from Maine, I'll buy the Lie Nielson out of loyalty and domestic bias, but it's pretty clear Bench Dog has a competitive product. I'm a beginner woodworker and my experience with their hand planes is much different from this. I bought a #5 Bench Dog and had a horrible time trying to get it to cut and adjust well. Granted, I had no idea what the hell I was doing, and having a screw lock instead of the lever action of the Stanley style certainly didn't help. I bought a Lie Nielson #4, and find I like it a lot more. Granted the Bench Dog is a scrub plane now, which it's performing admirably at.
Hi there, since the LN is out of stock I looked at getting the Bench Dog plane from Rockler, to be told that the cannot ship to Ontario Canada. I guess I go buy the Veritas plane instead
I entirely agree with the comments about supporting domestic manufacturers when buying tools. The higher cost is a lesser issue in my view. In the UK there are no domestic manufacturers making router planes so anything you buy will be an import. I think the potential difference between the makers like Lie Neilsen and Bench Dog is one of product consistency. If you buy a Lie Neilsen plane today and the same one in five years time they will be identical in quality. Not so with makers like Bench Dog. Several years ago I bought an Axminster Rider Block plane. Great little tool which is well made and a pleasure to use. More recently I bought a Rider 4 1/2 smoothing plane. It wouldn't produce a shaving the shape and fit of the chip breaker was diabolical. Several hours work improved the shape and fit and yes it would produce shavings of a sort but not good. Eventually I returned to the plane and found the sole was not flat it was significantly hollow in from the mouth to the heel in the centre of the sole. More hours correcting this fault has produced a reasonable plane but not a good one. BTW Rider planes and Bench Dog tools appear to be made by the same manufacturer.
May I suggest that you put both routers on a honed granite lapping stone, lapping stones are better than .004, no blades! just soles of each plane. Now place a finger on each knob and press down one side first then the other is there a rock, this will tell in the real world if it is flat. Now I have the Lie Neilson, Have not seen bench dog. just a thought. Cheers from Tasmania
I agree with Rob that it's ethical to spend the 50 and reward the innovator over the copycat. Once knock off companies take over a market their quality goes to nothing and you won't have an alternative.
Hello Rob, excellent and precise as always. I do have one question though. I see open and closed mouth versions of router planes, is there ever an advantage to that other design? Regards Peter
I dont think so. The idea with the open is you can see ahead of the blade better than a closed. I generally mount a secondary base on mine eliminating that feature. I really think it was more of a marketing gizmo Stanley did. I dont think it is a serious advantage
Can you please make videos on string-rope clamping verses wedge and string-wedge clamping and best applications for each for regular type and outside-the-norm projects...??
I was hoping for an ultra-closeup of the bottom of the dado where to meets the sidewalls to see if there was a radius, but I guess the tenon is usually left a bit short. I also wondered if the vertical adjustment screw on the Lie Neilson has more threads per inch. The lie is the superior tool - much superior to my skill level 😊
I would happily spend the extra $50 to get the LN if I could get one. I have checked every couple of weeks for six months, and they just don't have one available. The same is true of their skew plane.
I have been buying Veritas manufacturing seconds from the sales, seeing how little of a cosmetic flaw it takes for a company like that to deem a tool as a "second" gives me a lot of confidence in their product. I'm Lie-Neilsen is the same. I really believe that while some of these cheaper off shore companies are capable of making good products, I am not sure that there quality control is quite as consistent. I think I'll keep watching the Veritas seconds sales if I want to save $50.
I got the bench dog router plane yesterday, and I can't see how to remove the blade. It seems trapped by the knurled adjustment knob, even when the knob is unscrewed completely off the top of the height adjustment bolt, the blade is trapped by the knob.
Rob, regarding the depth adjustment, I think tightening the blade with the screwdriver is an unnecessary step. The adjustment wheel cannot be used to push the blade to a desired depth, simply because there is too much backlash, and the iron will slip. I just hand tighten the blade, enough so I can still push it down with my thumb until it rests on the adjustment wheel. With this technique, I don't need to use a screwdriver, and it is a lot faster to make cuts in small increments (undo the adjustment wheel 1/4 turn, push the blade with my thumb and cut). I am sure you know what I am talking about, I am curious to know what's your opinion.
I disagree. As I pointed out “thumb-tight” has never held well enough for me to rely on. If I were doing a lot of waste removal, and using the depth collar, I would probably rely on hand-tight so I could quickly move it up and down. But I rarely perform such a task, so I always use a screwdriver for a reliable depth that I know won’t change.
Good tip on the ¼" turn on the adjustment wheel. Can be used with or without the use of a screwdriver to lock the blade's shaft in place. I'd consider it an intermediate series of depth stops until the blade bottoms out on the actual depth stop, just like the intermediate turret mounted depth stops are used on an electric plunge router.
If you liked this video, check out our video on how to use a router plane: czcams.com/video/TvUzpGaa-d8/video.html
I appreciate that as a craftsman you support those toolmakers who care for their craft as well.
I always want to support the team you brought a product to market and did innovated stuff over the guy who is just benefitted off of someone else's work.
I'd rather support a local company like Lie Neilsen. That's worth the extra $50.
I agree 100% with you
Just wondering whether the local company will support its buyers by offering better prices when it’s clear that the tools CAN be made well at much lower prices. The local tools should actually be CHEAPER since they don’t have to spend on import duties and other taxes. I’m all for supporting “honest” local businesses which care for the community but often local companies and businesses use their monopoly to abuse pricing and only shape up when they have competition. It’s the same in every field whether it’s automotive, electronics, power tools, construction business etc.
@@GtubeVideos I feel that buying cheaper copies always eventually turns out badly. The imported tools always (in my experience) cut corners. I don't want a 'it's good enough tool' if I can have a first rate tool (or any 'lifetime' product) for a few bucks more. Especially if it supports more local producers, especially if they have a real commitment to making high quality products and to contributing improvements and innovations.
@@artswri well, that’s the whole point of Rob’s video. He concludes that there is almost no difference in the actual performance OR the build of the tool apart from few minor cosmetic differences. I’d appreciate if people still want to go ahead and buy a more expensive item just because they’re fans of a brand but then why even watch a comparison video like this if you can’t have an open mind about other alternatives? I personally don’t have any love towards any brand - I prefer a competitive market because that’s the only kind of market that drives innovation. These hand tools are a prime example - Stanley made the same planes for decades with minimal innovation until LN came in with some different approaches. Now LN is doing the same thing selling the same designs for decades and eventually someone new will come and replace them.
Too bad the Lie Nielsen large open throat has been out of stock for months with no ETA in sight. I've been waiting for an email from them for at least 6 months to get my hands on one.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Lie Nielsen tool is locally made is the best choice for me. This is a lifetime tool so $50.00 is not a deal breaker for quality.
Well said
My thoughts exactly. $50 for a lifetime tool to support a local business should not be a stretch for folks that do fine woodworking as a hobby, let alone as their profession.
Benchdog is currently 75 dollars cheaper and it's actually in stock. Not a counterpoint but production issues are a problem with the premium brands at the moment.
@@sfshilo Rockler putting on sale a plane that Rob was going to review... Hmmm. They've sold at least 3 today because of his review. (buyer reviews) Availability is everything.
@@mickeyd9369 lol yeup, smart on rockler
I have had a large Veritas Router Plane for a decade. It is an extraordinary tool. I think it is worth far more than I paid for it. I am sure the same is true of the Lie-Nielsen router plane, as well.
If the Bench Dog plane is close in performance to these two planes, then I would regard it as a good value, especially for the beginning wood worker.
Nice review. Thank you!
you bet...thanks for the comment
Love your video's Rob and from a US Marine veteran I deeply thank you and all your dedicated staff for the Purple Heart Project. After watching this shoot-out I purchased the Bench Dog. Let me say I did not have the same out of the box experience you did in so far as flatness and a square edge on the cutter. Being from Maine, I should have just driven to Lie Nielsen and purchased the tool I wanted. Lesson learned...again. So, after our great grand daughter's swing set project, someone will be getting a tuned up bench Dog and I'll get that Lie Nielsen. Thanks again Rob. Back to the bench!!!
Nice review. Made is USA is worth $50 IMHO. Thanks for sharing.
I agree!
I have said it once I’ll say it again, buy once cry once. Save your money and buy the best, Lie Nielsen. Great video Rob and Jake. Oh, and you too Luther!
To be fair it looked like the copy cat was worthy from a use standpoint. This it where all the “buy local made” people need to put their money where their mouth is. Seems like the only compelling reason to go with LN is to support their business that made what the copycat stole and support local people. For me that will be reason enough whenever I get a router plane, but I don’t think everyone who says buy local with follow through.
Ammed...does your phone work?
Rob. I've watched many of your reviews, and the thing I like about them is that you are honest and frank with your assessment of the item which you are reviewing. You call it as you see it, and that is a great quality. Your teaching of skills is also spot on for the person being instructed. (I am a former teacher and can see a good teacher. Honesty and clarity are keys) I appreciate all that you do for the vets as well as for the woodworking community. Thank you.
thanks for commenting. Keep watching and I will keep making the videos
To be truly honest, frank and do a complete review of this tool, the Veritas alternative must be included . In Canada the Veritas retails at $239.00. The LN at $250. PLUS a 41% exchange rate, plus shipping, plus taxes and duties. Comparison of a LN versus LV, look hard at the different features and you will realize Veritas is a winner in my book. The BD a distant third.
The LN will hold its value better if you had to resell it. Going off on a tangent though I have the Veritas router plane. I like the angled handles. I also like how the blade detaches for sharpening. I would agree the LN has a superior depth adjuster, but I haven’t had a problem with mine.
Yes LN hold there value extremely well. In the last 18 months used ones actually have risen above purchase price due to the shortage of LN tools
Maybe I'm just missing them, but I don't think I've seen many reviews of the Veritas stuff on this channel. Makes me wonder if there isn't some bad blood between Mr. Cosman and his Canadian brethren at Veritas.
Yeah I prefer the Veritas though the adjustment is slightly nicer on LN
@@GM-gc8gg not so much bad blood as simple loyalty to his sponsor Woodcraft.
That's understandable, though I personally won't buy any WC Chinese mfr goods.
@@thwwoodcraft1449 Hear what what you are saying, but: 1) Woodcraft doesn't make or even sell a router plane as far as I can tell, so what's the harm of reviewing the Lee Valley "domestic" product, and 2) Lee Valley's "domestic" stuff seems to be more in the league of Lie-Nielsen than Woodcraft and Mr. Cosman doesn't have any problem reviewing Lie-Nielsen even when it provides direct competition for the Woodcraft product.
Mr. Cosman your honesty and forthright opinions are refreshing. Thanks for the good review.
you bet
I appreciate your judgement in these comparison videos.
thanks I try hard to give the straight scoop
I think a better comparison would be contrasting the Veritas with the LN. In my opinion, LN copies Stanley but has high quality standards, Veritas Improves on old designs and also has high standards.
thanks for watching and commenting
I am totally satisfied with ALL my LN tools...I just bought the LN router plane this week and can't wait to use it. I don't mind spending the extra 50 for the tool either. Local companies get my money, and besides quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten...
I love my old Stanley ...
Thanks for the review. I’ll stay with my LN’s.
Me too
I was about to order the Bench Dog router plane but after this video I am ordering the LN. I will gladly play a bit more for the original rather than the copy, specially if locally produced. I shop regularly at the local stores and only go to the big box stores as a last resort. Thank you Rob!
The difference at this time is $140 vs $250. that makes supporting the "home team" more difficult, to be sure.
When I’ve seen all your videos, and now watching reruns
Seeing you work with your tools and talking about quality tools do quality work I completely agree with. I am doing projects on the side for family and friends at the moment but am hoping to expand as time progresses. I am hoping to add some of Lee Nielsen tools to my shop down the road as I progress. As you mentioned where they were made that solidified my choice. I want to help those domestically to keep jobs local. That is worth the cost to me. Enjoy watching your videos and keep up the good work.
I agree with you 100%
My Lie Nielsen just arrived today after being out of stock for quite a while. Just handling it the quality and workmanship are evident.
I agree with you. Thank you for sharing. I like your honest opinions. Helps a lot.
Fair, accurate and balanced review, and very informative - thanks!
Thanks for watching and commenting
Living in Australia I too would pay the extra for the Lie Nielsen (my local brand). I wonder how it is that a copy can cost so much when the cost of labour is so different. It seems that rather than producing a product for a reasonable price they are looking at the market and seeing how much they can make on a copy. This may be fair enough if the people making the tool are also receiving a fair days pay. If we want quality tools from manufactures we trust and people who look to improve year on year then we must support them
Yeah definitely priced relative to what they copied rather than the lowest they could offer. Router planes are not something everyone will have and seen probably as more of a luxury than necessity, so they’re trying to price just low enough to get those people to reach for theirs.
Are you talking about bench dog copying Lie Nielsen's design or Lie Nielsen copying Stanley's design?
@@UserNameAnonymous The LN have improvements in quality and features. The BD is an exact copy of LN, no value added. Moreover the LN fit and finish is well above the BD. I have repeatedly found the copycats to be rough and crude, which I find an unending source of displeasure each time I use one. By contrast I enjoy the feel and beauty of quality tools each time I use one. I am most willing to pay for that. I will do without / make do, and save up for a quality product.
@@artswri - Sure. LN copied 95% of Stanley's design. Bench Dog copied 95% of Stanley's design and 5% of LN's one minor improvement (depending on who you ask) of switching from a collar to a set screw. Using a set screw isn't exactly revolutionary.
I support buying tools from LN and Veritas, but the "copycat" argument is very weak at best. LN copied 95% of the Stanley design, that doesn't make them bad. If we want to promote LN and Veritas, we need to do it the right way. If the only argument against BD was the copying, then I'd buy BD. Thankfully, there are way better reasons to support the premium brands.
well said
I have a LN and have never had a problem with it. I'll stick with it.
I’m still a Miller’s Falls man. In so many ways I have found them to be of superior quality in workmanship and materials used. Heavy, well machined, balanced.
I used a router plane for the first time at The Unplugged Woodshop in Ontario. It has turned into a tool that I don’t know how I managed without it! I use Lie Nielsen all the time now.
Thanks for that review mr rob , I love my lie nelson router plane , makes my work much more fun .👍
LN is an awesome plane maker
I want to see more of the nicely proportioned bookcase. Looks nice with those curves.
well do
The bench dog is currently $125 cheaper (holiday sale), performs just as well, and has no wait time. I know I’d be more proud to own a LN but that is getting really hard to pass up. What do others think?
I never even knew this tool existed. Always nice to learn something new!
thanks for commenting
As of April 2022 Lie Nielsen is now a 225$ plane and this is still 125$. So it's now a 100$ difference... The Veritas plane is also still under 200$ as well.
There is something to be said of the refinement of Lie-nielsen. I understand the affordability aspect at the same time. I agree with your assessment; I would get the Lie-Nielsen for the same reasons.
I buy locally made every chance I get and am willing to spend a little more. Not that I matter, but I agree with you conclusion completely.
thanks for watching and commenting
I pride myself in my 6 decades of woodworking and my workmanship and especially my tools from Tom Lie Neilsen who has stood by and with me and I stand by him 100% as I do with Rob Cosman and his tools, simply none better at any price and 2 finer people you'll never meet; also have to add Tom Mclaughlin to that exclusive list.
Thanks for the great comment
One issue not mentioned with LN right now is the loooooooooooong wait for any tools right now. Probably due to scaling back operations due to Covid. Whatever the reason, Prices on ebay are absolutely ridiculously high since LN has slowed down to a crawl at the moment.
Good luck getting a mortise chisel from LN I gave up and went with Narex doubt I will ever bother again. And after watching this I got a bench dog router plane for $103 compared to $225.
@@summerwind4590 I looked them up. LN is now $225 to $250 depending on the model. The Benchdog is 139.99. I would personally rather buy American to support a small American company even if it's a bit more. But with inflation putting a major squeeze on the wallet, the Benchdog is very tempting. I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for going that direction.
Thanks for the review, at the sale price of $99, I ordered the Bench dog. I'm a woodworker, not a collector, it's just a tool to me. Your bias is a little unfair however. You praise Lee Neilson tools for quality and innovation and bash the copy a bit, yet use foreign made Wood River planes. Just a bit hypocritical. But I still like your reviews.
Let me explain since I was expecting this to come up. LN copied Stanley bedrock planes, WR copied Stanley bedrock planes. WR made improvements, as an example, look at the top of the yoke, original to WR.
I'd take a Veritas over either. I'd also take a vintage Stanley over the Bench Dog. In the end were talking about a concealed surface so maybe I buy and old Stanley and clean it up, but if you want the best Veritas has that for the router plane.
For me they both appear high quality. The major factor then becomes the sharpness and edge retention of the blade.
The advantage of pulling the router over pushing it is it helps to keep the sole from rotating. I have the Veritas and a Bosch router!
Good video, Rob. Ironically, I just found my grandfathers Stanley the other day. I had it out, tuned up the blades and started flattening the bottom of the plane. The sole has some pretty deep scratches in it; but none seem to have sharp edges or burrs. I also started flattening the bottom a bit and found it has nice registration on the front and back but seems hollow ground in the middle. Should I be concerned about that?
My two cents is the Lie Nielsen. A real company; they sponsor events, provide assistance to make the craft better (like assisting your efforts with the vets.) Doing that kind of stuff cost money. Just building the tool to be acceptable sometimes isn't enough.
You need to worry about it in front of the mouth. That needs to be dead flat, there can be a slight hollow behind the mouth
The LN is now $225 and the Bench Dog $103 (on sale).
🇺🇲 Made in the USA🇺🇲, Still a source of pride for me.
There you go
I could be wrong, and just bad timing, but it's been a while since I saw a LN in stock. Availability being equal, I'll go LN every time. That said, also have the Veritas and love it. For the same reasons others have said.
thanks for watching and commenting
Love the comment of "buy from a domestic company".
I prefer local quality and am willing to pay for it. If price was to drive all decisions quality inevitably drops off. I'm a firm beliver in you get what you pay for and buyer beware.
Well said
A copycat is a copycat. People overseas need to eat as much as people in Maine. Great comparison. Thanks for the video.
Good informative video Rob.
Thank for another well produced and informative video, I have a Veritas and I find that it works well and is well made, and Canadian made.
thanks for commenting
Following up on my last post. First Bench Dog router plane was returned due to a crooked blade mount. Received a second one which was better in that the blade mount was straight but had a significant high spot in the center (think Rob got lucky with his example). Worked quite bit to get it quasi flat but not perfect. I believe there is quite a bit of flex in the body. At any rate, with a wider platform base bolted to it and a good sharpening, it worked pretty well and I figured I'd just live with the shortcomings.
Except that a couple weeks later, I received an email from Lie Nielsen that they had a very limited supply of open faced router planes in stock. I successfully ordered it within a couple hours of the email. (checked again the next morning and they were out again)
Just received it last week. NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE! Perfect in every way ... even the blade was completely usable out of the box. I didn't set out to do my own side by side comparison but that's what happened. I could live with a few cosmetic differences but that's not what I experienced at all. If you're thinking of going with the BD, just save your money and get on LN's list (or go to that Canadian company that shall not be mentioned), and be done with it. :--)
Ran across this video in my search for a decent beginner router plane that will only see occassional use. Thanks for your honest feedback. LN must have upped their prices fairly significantly recently. Everywhere I've looked, it's priced at $225 but, have not been able to find anywhere that has them in stock. The BD is currently $103 at the time I'm typing this. I'm all about spending a little extra to buy American made when possible but, I honestly couldn't justify the extra cost on this one. Looks like the Bench Dog is in my future. Thanks again for the vid. 👍
I'm seeing the same thing as of May '23. The LN is up to $225, and the BD price with coupon is about $125. After reading a number of reviews, it appears the BD has some QC issues in some cases (chipped irons, base not flat, etc). As I have a Rockler store nearby, I can inspect a plane for defects before I buy, so should be able to avoid obvious problems right out of the box. If the price delta was still $50, I'd go with the LN, but for $100, I'm leaning towards the BD. Veritas has a nice Canadian made closed throat model for about $190 that is a little more affordable option as well.
@@jamesberry5623 I bought the BD a few months ago. I am just a weekend warrior and this is my 1st and only router plane so I have nothing to compare it to. With that said, I have had zero issues with mine. I spent maybe 15-20 minutes flattening the bottom and sharpening the blade, then put it to work. Has been working great for me so far.
I wish
you may compare and review Veritas tools someday. I know about your lawyers recommendation, but still have a glimpse of hope
What was his lawyer's recommendation?
long as they advise me to not comment publicly on veritas I am not going to risk it
Love comparisons of the finest tools
I do as well but BD is not one. Veritas is the equal of LN and made in Canada at a considerable price difference when Canadians consider the exchange rate, shipping and taxes. I like LN’s products but not will to pay the additional money for a name.
I have the bench dog, one issue I ran into is the brass square depth stop can break really easy. I was able to repair it, and I don't use it often, but it could be beefier. Other then that the router works just fine, and I was able to find other sized blades for it pretty easily.
great info, thanks for the comment
Interesting. I've noticed the depth stop's apparent fragility and thought about what I'd do if I over tightened the brass screw and fractured the stop. While many "Quick & Dirty" fixes come to mind, I think I'd get another chunk of brass larger than the ⅝" x ⅝" x ¼" stop it comes with and do the simple metalwork to make the ⅜"square post hole. and, depending on the knurled set-screw's thread and tpi, either replace it with another or use it as is. {Remember, there's a fine difference between tightening just "Snug" enough and tightening to a "Snug & an Oops".)
I'm surprised there isn't a larger price difference. For me, paying only 50 bucks extra for USA made premium tool seems like a no brainer
Actually I was a bit surprised about that too.
Watched this not long after it came out, but now looking at it and comparing the price, the LN is just shy of double the cost ($110 more) of the BD now, so to me, unless you have $$$ to burn, the BD is the choice. I'll be adding the BD to my tool list and do the little bit of touch up work on the knobs and blade. Oh and to the copying thing, it looks like LN has now added a brass depth stop similar to the BD, so fairs fair I guess.
Good review of the two tools. Thank you. After seeing your review of one of the Bench Dog bench planes in which the Bench Dog faired poorly, I was surprised to see how well their router plane did in your assessment. I agree for a $50 difference, I would by the higher quality and original engineering of Lie Nielsen. However, the Lie Nielson is currently selling for $225, while the Bench Dog is $140 at Rockler. Also, with Rockler's recent 20% sale on one item of your choosing, I was able to get the Bench Dog for $112 and free shipping. So, for a $113+ difference, I had to go with the Bench Dog. On the other hand, you have sold me on WoodRiver bench planes, so I have a 5-1/2 and 7 on order from Woodcraft (if only you could ship WoodRivers to the US!). Thanks for the honest and thorough reviews and other great videos.
I find it funny that after no appreciable difference is found Rob mentions made locally,,,,,where are the Wood river planes made?? There is a complete set behind you on the wall.
One would think you should have been able to pay a extra 50$for a lie nelson....
He said in the video that it was made in India where as the LN was made in the USA. He was not making a video about what he is putting in his own person woodshop. I think it was meant to answer questions to those that are looking to save some money and don’t have LN size tool budget. $50 here and another $50 somewhere else and suddenly you have saved enough to buy another tool on a tight budget. I appreciate the video because I am very much a Buy Once, Cry Once person. But at least now I am crying with a slight smile on my face knowing that I am making the right choice getting the LN.
Good video. I like that there is a budget version of a quality tool available for those who need to watch their pennies, or even half pence. I purchased the Veritas router plane after about a year of bouncing back and forth with the Lie Nielson. I chose the Veritas because of the angled knobs and the two-piece cutting tool construction which makes sharpening a bit easier. It was a hard choice. I often start with a cheap tool to see how often I will use it. In this case, I went to a top end tool because I knew I would only buy once. I am very happy with the purchase, but am still second guessing.
On another topic, it will help if we knew what the current bottom line cost is to bring a vet in to the Purple Heart workshop. You talk about tools and such, but I think it would help knowing the full cost per person.
Full cost last time we ran the courseew which was two years ago because of COVID was 5000 per Vet
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I think folks would like to know. Maybe a few friends can come together to cover a position. Thanks for your efforts.
This video sold a whole lot of Bench Dog router planes! And when the video dropped, Rockler had them on sale too! Was able to get one for $99, while LN has been out of stock for MONTHS now.
Got mine for less than $94.00 (+Governor Newsom's cut) in December of 2020 when they were regularly $124.99. Bottom is dead flat, blade shank housing dead-on vertical @90º, and it works like a charm. Wish I had more money to spend on the highest quality tools, but, as my mother used to say: "If wishes were fishes, we'd all go down the the sea and cast nets".(We do what we can with what we have and firnd ways to work around and/or smooth out the rough spots.)
This helped me out a lot. Thank you I will be buying the Lie Nielsen USA!
Good decision
Nice review, Rob. I picked up the Lie-Nielsen based on their reputation and previous experience with their tools. (Your recommendations were icing on the cake.) I'll always prefer a product made in the US, but since discovering your tools and certain other Canadian outlets, I've modified that mentality to a preference of "made in North America." :-)
Good decision....
Thanks for a fair and frank review. Getting a router plane has been on my list for quite a while. Now I know what to look for.
Chosing between these two is still difficult if I can look past the copy cat thing. Being an engineer as my day job I really can’t but pretending that isn’t an issue.
For me woodworking is my hobby. I find I nearly always regret when I buy anything because it costs less and I have to look at and/or touch less refined fit and finish it is annoying.
Being that I am not in a hurry to get one it’s worth waiting a little while simply to never say, “this feels rough” or “this looks like sloppy workmanship”. I want my shop time to be the best experience possible, it is where I choose to spend my very precious free time.
I agree.
I love my LN router planes.
me too
I'm with you Rob. In this market, you get what you pay for. Fit and finish does matter, especially as in indicator of overall quality. The clincher is domestic.
I like how he's using a proper Gunsmithing/hollow ground screwdriver!
thats the screwdriver we sell... they are the best
I've been looking for a Router Plane. Glad to find this review and I appreciate your opinion on the Bench Dog unit.
you bet
Good review, thanks for taking the time to make the comparison between the two. It might have been helpful to include an old Stanley or Record plane in good condition just to see how both the Benchdog and LN compare.
For the $50 I would go with the tool made right here in the USA, plus the LN has a bit better fit and finish than the Benchdog version. In general I prefer US or Canadian made planes over others.
Also, I've noticed you stay away from making comparisons to Veritas tools. I'm sure there is a reason but I've never heard an explanation as to why. I have a few of Veritas planes and find them to be as good quality as LN versions. Features set them apart sometimes but I think they both make quality tools.
the oy significant difference is the way the old Stanley's and Records held the blades; not nearly as solid as the LN
Very helpful video. I’d just add that with the Bench Dog, there’s occasionally a 20% off coupon through Rockler that would make it a better value proposition. At $50 dollars, I’d probably go with the LN for the reasons Rob put forward.
good point
No doubt, buy Lie Nielsen. In fact just ordered one tonight, but alas the 1/4 mortise chisels still out of stock.
Hopefully they will be back to full production soon
The reason the point to the left is mounting screw is on the right.
Not anymore, Bench Dog RP is 139.99 and Lie-Nielsen is $250. I'll still buy the Lie-Nielsen but over $100 difference is a lot of money that could be spent on other tools or materials.
Great review, we are on the same page, LN has been doing a great job over the decades ensuring great tools are available and improving them. I’ll have to keep this in mind the next time I consider something from Rockler.
LN does a great job
Great comparison Rob. I'm with you on this one and would gladly spend the extra fifty dollars to support a domestic company employing local folks. In my case, I have an old Millers Falls router plane that I enjoy.
Thanks for the review. I appreciate your observations. I may have missed a comment on this, but i didn't hear any mention of the tool steel used on the Bench Dog version. My guess is that it is 01 steel which is fine, but i think that A2 steel that's been cryogenically treated is an upgrade and more expensive to produce. That could be a part of the price difference. The handles on the Lie Nielson look like they have a nicer finish on them. cosmetic, but just a better looking tool and better fit and finish, IMO.
As they say 'you pay your money, you take your choice'. Nothing wrong with being loyal to local manufacturers or national manufacturers. However, don't they say immitation is the sincerest form of flattery and a high percentage of the Lie Nielsen is Stanley. To really make it their own they could have also changed the shape of the casting. $50 may not be much to some but as much as I think Rob really wanted the Lie Nielsen to be far better to justify its price, he struggled. One minute the deeper knurl on the screws are good for tightening especially if you have arthritis but in summing up they are crude. Five minutes with a file to soften the edges of the casting or sandpaper for the knobs is nothing. So, $50 dollars or more saved could buy someone a decent chisel or two.
Thanks for the review. Noted your clever flatness tester. I noticed the second screw on the bench dog. Stop collar?
yes it is
Mr Cosman failed to note one significant difference between the two products: the Bench Dog has only one blade size. L-N will sell you an adapter for the large router that allows you to use their small router blades in it, so you can get a 1/4" blade into the large router for doing grooves for a drawer bottom.
UPDATE: I bought the L-N closed throat router plane. It arrived much faster than I expected and it is terrific. You can feel the quality right out of the box and right out of the box it performed without any tuning. Just based on the performance I got from this tool right out of the box, I would say it's worth the extra $50 over the Bench Dog.
The blade in the Bench Dog looks to be identical in size to the LN. It seems you could buy the LN adaptor / smaller blade and use it in the Bench Dog. Not arguing in favor of the Bench Dog, just pointing out a potential work around.
Edit: The open throat LN has be out of stock forever, while the closed throat is in stock. I've always wondered what's the biggest consideration when comparing open vs closed. I've thought about pulling the trigger on the closed throat but have noticed many if not most of my woodworking heroes use the open throat. It doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference but curious if there's something I'm missing.
@@philshock3805 I see your point; I don't know if the adapter is swappable. If it's off by a little bit in size, it won't work properly. The machining is very precise on the LN. As for open v closed throat, the way I hear it, the open throat is preferred for inlay work because it provides better visibility.
@@psiclops521 Thanks for the reply. Yeah, if it's not the same size all bets would be off. Looks identical though when Rob hold them side by side. Better visibility was always my thought about an open throat and better rigidity with the closed throat. I don't know if either one is an actual issue in day to day use but just wondered if there was something I missed. I've since seen several comments from Rob though where he suggests "either one would be fine". Still undecided over the L-N closed version vs the Bench Dog open throat. I get the point of supporting domestic companies but the BD is on sale for $99 (w/ free shipping). Now we're talking about an $85+ difference.
@@philshock3805 I bought the LN (closed) about a month ago. I've used it a little and it lives up to reputation right outta da box. If the blade size doesn't matter, I certainly see saving the money and buying the BD. It would just have to be exceptional to be as good as this LN.
LN for sure
me too
I had a similar choice between the LN and Woodriver 5 1/2. I went for the LN, even though it was $125 more ($300 v $425) for some of the same reasons as you; LN is made in USA, Woodriver basically a copy (although a good one) of the LN. I do notice you recommend Woodriver a lot, and it being manufactured in China and basically a copycat of LN planes doesn't seem to bother you. I just purchased the Benchdog router plane as it was on sale for $97 vs the LN at $250. I spent the money on the LN 5 1/2 because I use it often for a lot of different operations, but with the price difference and the performance parity between the BD ad LN router planes, it's hard to justify the LN. I may pickup a small LN router plane in the future though.
Lie-Nielsen current price is $225 and it's out of stock (1-22-23). The Bench Dog is $139.99 from Rockler.
Good review. As an expatriate from Maine, I'll buy the Lie Nielson out of loyalty and domestic bias, but it's pretty clear Bench Dog has a competitive product. I'm a beginner woodworker and my experience with their hand planes is much different from this. I bought a #5 Bench Dog and had a horrible time trying to get it to cut and adjust well. Granted, I had no idea what the hell I was doing, and having a screw lock instead of the lever action of the Stanley style certainly didn't help. I bought a Lie Nielson #4, and find I like it a lot more. Granted the Bench Dog is a scrub plane now, which it's performing admirably at.
well a router plane is much simpler than a bench plane, so that's the big difference
Hi there, since the LN is out of stock I looked at getting the Bench Dog plane from Rockler, to be told that the cannot ship to Ontario Canada. I guess I go buy the Veritas plane instead
Thanks for commenting
I entirely agree with the comments about supporting domestic manufacturers when buying tools. The higher cost is a lesser issue in my view. In the UK there are no domestic manufacturers making router planes so anything you buy will be an import. I think the potential difference between the makers like Lie Neilsen and Bench Dog is one of product consistency. If you buy a Lie Neilsen plane today and the same one in five years time they will be identical in quality. Not so with makers like Bench Dog. Several years ago I bought an Axminster Rider Block plane. Great little tool which is well made and a pleasure to use. More recently I bought a Rider 4 1/2 smoothing plane. It wouldn't produce a shaving the shape and fit of the chip breaker was diabolical. Several hours work improved the shape and fit and yes it would produce shavings of a sort but not good. Eventually I returned to the plane and found the sole was not flat it was significantly hollow in from the mouth to the heel in the centre of the sole. More hours correcting this fault has produced a reasonable plane but not a good one. BTW Rider planes and Bench Dog tools appear to be made by the same manufacturer.
May I suggest that you put both routers on a honed granite lapping stone, lapping stones are better than .004, no blades! just soles of each plane. Now place a finger on each knob and press down one side first then the other is there a rock, this will tell in the real world if it is flat. Now I have the Lie Neilson, Have not seen bench dog. just a thought. Cheers from Tasmania
I agree with Rob that it's ethical to spend the 50 and reward the innovator over the copycat. Once knock off companies take over a market their quality goes to nothing and you won't have an alternative.
Great video Rob! Thanks.
thanks for watching
Is the cutter on both router planes interchangeable with each other.
Hello Rob, excellent and precise as always. I do have one question though. I see open and closed mouth versions of router planes, is there ever an advantage to that other design?
Regards
Peter
I'm interested in this as well, I really would like to have both but the cost is very prohibitive, which one would I be best off getting first??
I dont think so. The idea with the open is you can see ahead of the blade better than a closed. I generally mount a secondary base on mine eliminating that feature. I really think it was more of a marketing gizmo Stanley did. I dont think it is a serious advantage
Can you please make videos on string-rope clamping verses wedge and string-wedge clamping and best applications for each for regular type and outside-the-norm projects...??
Sorry but I dont use those clamping methods so I am not the guy to make a video on it
I was hoping for an ultra-closeup of the bottom of the dado where to meets the sidewalls to see if there was a radius, but I guess the tenon is usually left a bit short. I also wondered if the vertical adjustment screw on the Lie Neilson has more threads per inch. The lie is the superior tool - much superior to my skill level 😊
As a proud indian I bought the benchdog plane 🇮🇳 🇮🇳 🇮🇳
I would happily spend the extra $50 to get the LN if I could get one. I have checked every couple of weeks for six months, and they just don't have one available. The same is true of their skew plane.
You can get one with a closed throat, which performs the same, but in my opinion just reduces visibility
I have been buying Veritas manufacturing seconds from the sales, seeing how little of a cosmetic flaw it takes for a company like that to deem a tool as a "second" gives me a lot of confidence in their product. I'm Lie-Neilsen is the same. I really believe that while some of these cheaper off shore companies are capable of making good products, I am not sure that there quality control is quite as consistent. I think I'll keep watching the Veritas seconds sales if I want to save $50.
I got the bench dog router plane yesterday, and I can't see how to remove the blade. It seems trapped by the knurled adjustment knob, even when the knob is unscrewed completely off the top of the height adjustment bolt, the blade is trapped by the knob.
did you get clean corners in the groove even with the round edge on the cutter with the Bench Dog?
Yes it did an decent job
Think will stick with my old stanley actually it’s a record 😂but still wouldn’t change it
No 71 is a classic and fun to use.
a nice classic
Rob, regarding the depth adjustment, I think tightening the blade with the screwdriver is an unnecessary step.
The adjustment wheel cannot be used to push the blade to a desired depth, simply because there is too much backlash, and the iron will slip.
I just hand tighten the blade, enough so I can still push it down with my thumb until it rests on the adjustment wheel.
With this technique, I don't need to use a screwdriver, and it is a lot faster to make cuts in small increments (undo the adjustment wheel 1/4 turn, push the blade with my thumb and cut).
I am sure you know what I am talking about, I am curious to know what's your opinion.
I disagree. As I pointed out “thumb-tight” has never held well enough for me to rely on. If I were doing a lot of waste removal, and using the depth collar, I would probably rely on hand-tight so I could quickly move it up and down. But I rarely perform such a task, so I always use a screwdriver for a reliable depth that I know won’t change.
Good tip on the ¼" turn on the adjustment wheel. Can be used with or without the use of a screwdriver to lock the blade's shaft in place. I'd consider it an intermediate series of depth stops until the blade bottoms out on the actual depth stop, just like the intermediate turret mounted depth stops are used on an electric plunge router.
Rob, I assume you gave the Bench Dog router's cutter a honing before the test comparison. Is that the case?
HI rob cool advice.
Thanks for watching and commenting
Since this video the price of a Lie-Nielsen router plane is $250, while the Bench Dogs plane is $139, so almost double.