Why publish "ceiiinosssttuv"?
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- čas přidán 22. 04. 2024
- Caroline Roper, Ella Hubber and Tom Lum from the podcast 'Let's Learn Everything!' face a question about tricksy text.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcast.com
GUESTS:
Caroline Roper: / carolinethebug
Ella Hubber: / ellahubber
Tom Lum: / tomlumperson
Let's Learn Everything podcast: www.letslearneverythingpod.com/
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. - Zábava
in an alternate history, Captain Hooke publishes the location of his treasure this way
Notably, he wudve called himself Captain Robert but he didnt wanna be confused with the infamous pirate Roberts
because as we all know, nobody meets the Dread Pirate Roberts and survives
My guess was that he figured out that there were a bunch of typos in the publication, and instead of amending it, he just added the missing letters as an exercise for the readers.
That was Timothy Dexter and his book, A Pickle for the Knowing Ones.
That r*m*nds m* of a class*c tumblr post:
Old MacD*nald had a farm.
*eieio
The answer is trivial, and left as an exercise for the readers.
After hearing it in ‘sing-song’ format, my mind immediately went ‘Ooh eeh ooh ahh ahh ting tang walla walla bing bang’
😂
Tom scott has been busted
I am glad I am not the only one hearing this. Also thank you for typing it out, I was about to and realized it was too much effort :)
Nah, this is science, not witch doctoring
Two halfs can't make an hole without an hole
The modern version of this would be to create a text file describing your discovery and publish the SHA-256 hash of that file. The hash can't be reversed - it's smaller than the input text, so multiple input texts will produce the same hash, and it's computationally infeasible (as in it would take orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe) to find an input that generates a particular hash. When you reveal the text file, the fact that it produces the SHA-256 hash you originally published therefore shows that you had exactly that text file at the time you published the hash.
This is exactly what Tom mentions at 7:55 (but without the nice explanation of what a hash does).
Good luck with ANSI, ASCII, UTF-8, ISO/IEC 8859-x, UTF-16, UTF-32.
Thanks, was trying to follow what Tom was saying and had trouble.
There was a discussion of this on Hacker News the other day, and someone mentioned this method used by scientists. So I was able to work this out very quickly.
@@JohnADoe-pg1qkpick one. Done.
I remember learning in an Engineering class that Hooke did the same thing with an anagram of a latin phrase that translates to "As hangs a flexible cable so, inverted, stand the touching pieces of an arch." This was an idea that he never finished workinhg on before he died and his executor revealed the solution.
By executor, I’m going to guess you mean “executor of his will”, not the guy who cut off his head 😏
@@yveslafrance2806 Nah. They set Hooke a fixed deadline by which he had to complete his work. And they took the word deadline quite literally back then.
But to be fair, he was given a choice: Either this, or admit in writing that Newton is his better. The choice was an easy one.
@@hebl47 A deadline, eh? Now I see where the expression “chop chop” comes from…
Ooh I immediately knew Hooke's law on ideal springs but did not know he figured out catenaries. Nice! This is now a proper physics nerd party here.
He published this around the time when the balance spring for watches was invented. He was at odds with Christian Huuygens, a Dutch inventor who he was beefing with over priority of invention.
All I remembered about Robert Hooke was from reading Horrible History, and I fully went "it's the spring guy with a bad temper, so this is about springs and being pissy about other people stealing his work".
as someone who did 4 years of latin and also knew about Hooke, xkcd 2501 strikes again
Surprised none of them knew who Robert Hooke was.
To be fair, we lived a lot closer to his time than they did.
Newton strikes again
Same here, we did it in secondary school science, even before GCSE physics.
Ditto. I didn't learn Hooke's Law 'til later, but we saw his drawings of cells (and looked at plant cells ourselves) in elementary school.
I’m a musician from the US and even I know who Hooke is/was. Yeesh.
Just dropping by to say, yes, Tom, it would be the printing press.
Robert Hooke lived in the period following the Great Fire of London and was a friend of Sir Christopher Wrenn, who designed many of the buildings in the rebuilt city, including St Paul's Cathedral. Between them, they designed the Monument to the Great Fire in such a way that with the addition of lenses top and bottom it would double as a giant telescope with which to observe a forthcoming transit of Venus!
Indeed. And I believe his laboratory/workspace from which you would look through the telescope is still in the foundations though not open to the public.
As a teenager I went up the Monument and was mesmerised by the way you can look all the way down the centre. Only years later did I learn why.
Robert is almost a famous pirate's name, one just need to add an 's': The Dread Pirate Roberts.
As you wish!
@@craftsmanwoodturner I prefer people buy me dinner before they declare their love.
With iocane powder mixed in?
It's sort of a zero knowledge proof. You're showing evidence that you know a thing, without revealing what that thing is.
Not quite, because the only way for the anagram to prove you know the thing is by deciphering it and revealing the thing.
@@IceMetalPunk That's why I said 'sort of'
Figured this out as soon as the question was read - my time spent watching the Objectivity channel all about the history of science/scientific artifacts has not gone to waste! I am now disproportionately happy 😁.
The second Tom talked about sing-songy jingles on kid's TV, I'm sure every US 90s kid immediately had "Write to me / Stick Stickly / PO Box 963 / NY City / NY State / 10108" running through their head.
Our great professor asked us this same question as a warm up to his course. "Ceiiinosssttuv" is an anagram that Robert Hooke used in his publication. Later, he revealed the solution to the anagram as the Latin phrase ut tensio, sic vis, which translates to "as the extension, so the force".
I’m such an idiot that I didn’t make the connection between Robert Hooke and Hooke’s law until Tom said it at the end ._.
@@BananaWasTaken been there! •‿•
The first thing I thought of was Hooke's Law - thanks physics lessons from back in the late 70s!
Loved Tom just casually dropping an Alfred Bester reference in there!
Now to wonder if he's ever read The Sheep Look Up and been horrified by the microwave malfunction?
The moment Tom mentioned anagrams, I got the puzzle. I know that Galileo did it for claiming the discovery of the rings of Saturn and the phases of Venus. Some people accidentally decided them as Mars has two moons and Jupiter has a great red spot. Both of them are absolutely correct but that was an accident.
The fact that you could pronounce it the same as "see, I know stuff" seems oddly ironic considering it's about a scientific discovery xD
Oh that's good
Oh, I've just checked out these guys' podcast, and it's amazing! Thank you Tom Scott for introducing me to them!
I immediately thought this was a subtle bill and Ted reference, especially with the title. I was just racking my brain to figure out how Ted could be short for Justin
Knew this one! Thanks, Dinosaur Comics.
What's with the name Sven Woca on the thumbnail?
Our thumbnail designer is called Evan Scow :)
@@lateralcast An anagram, I see.
Could have got Matt Grey to read out the Latin. 😀
You guys are great!
Tom, my man! Agreed on Kars4Kids! I do turn my radio off when I hear it!
Would have laughed if someone would have been like Matt with his GCSE in Latin and solved the anagram. Sadly I completely forgot about Hooke's Law until it was mentioned, didn't even trigger when he mentioned the last name.
I was thinking, "Tom Scott knows at least one person who could solve the anagram..."
@LateralWithTomScott
HEY! Now we know what "Covfefe" was all about! 🤣
Yeah what?
I kind of doubt Donald knows Latin but okay!
@@lucbloom Well, obviously we don't know it YET, because the time for reveal hasn't happened yet.
My first question would be: "is this related to Hooke’s Law?" 😂
Funnily enough, my first thought was: "How is this related to his feud with Newton?"
A 1980s thing that I did every few weeks:
Put an Audio Cassette (Yes those things that used to get mangled in our players) into a padded-envelope (Jiffy-bag?) (No longer a thing I think) and send per post to myself via registered mail but never open. I still have all the envelopes still with the Royal Mail stamps proving when they were sent but they were never opened. The poor man’s copyright. My SONG! Or Songs!
I hope you understand what I mean?
As soon as Tom mentioned Robert Hooke, my first thought was "This HAS to be related to his infamous beef with Isaac Newton"
Love the LLE crew 🥺
Thanks to London's Capital FM in the 90s(?) I know jingles from radio 7HO in Tasmania. (That's my wonderful toooown!)
I didn't know this specific example, but I heard of the same thing being practiced by the astronomers of that era.
Reminded me of the movie "Mercury Rising"
At a guess, it will have been to annoy Newton, but Hooke had a habit of publishing formulae as anagrams. Of note is that the letters are in alphabetic order.
I knew Tom was gonna say "pirate?" :)
*Panthers?*
My guess was that he was demonstrating some oddity of the press he was using when printing strings of repeated letters.
Just publish the work encrypted and then reveal your private key.
I still don't fully understand how it works, even after they explained it. 🤣
Will still watch. But my guess it is a glitch where they do not check for words with duplicate letters in a row
I think this episode had my favorite intro (i won't spoil it, you have to go listen to it), and my favorite outro featuring an unexpected cameo from Mario
I put this here again to plead for full episodes on CZcams, in part because convenience, but also so we can comment on the whole episode!
Our podcast platform is beta-testing a video capability. In the meantime, there are community posts for every full episode.
oh no why did you sing that jingle to Keyes, Keyes, Keyes, Keyes on Van Nuys! tom?!
1:30 Steve Terreberry (Stevie T) flashsbacks
I know the original words to the "Kars-4-Kids" jingle. It has nothing to do with cars, though it is about little kids.
Wait is Kars for Kids in the UK too, or is he pissed off at it just from visiting the US and maybe Canada?
Robert Hooke, the person who lived at the wrong end of Isaac Newtown's pettiness. Also from the Isle of Wight
5:35 tbf to Tom Lun here, Robert is actually a prty piratey name too.
There's the Dread Pirate Roberts from the Princess Bride... Which likely used that name bcuz of the real life Bartholomew Roberts; and that pirate is a prty famous one, so its natural to associate Roberts with pirates, esp if theyve got Hooks too!
Robert Hook? Didn't he have a hit in 1979 with "When You're In Love With a Beatiful Woman"?
That was Dr. Hook. And in this case the name was in fact a reference to Captain Hook.
Galileo, Torricelli and Sir Christopher Wren did similar things.
My immediate thought was to anagram the title, and all I got was "Tit viciousness". Of course it was in Latin instead!
Personally I don't care who got there first. What matters is who shared the information first. Back in those days it was pretty common for people to take discoveries to their grave.
I really vibe with Ella’s anxiety. 😂
Oh, THAT Hooke! LoL Awesome.
Who else thought this was the discovery of the rings of saturn?
My immediate first reaction was, "I only know one Hooke from 17th century, and only one specific thing he's known for." And turns out, I should have ran with it. XD
Tenser said the tensor
Don't ask why, ask Why knot.
my first thought was that the letters were published super tiny and were there so scientists could test their microscopes they either made or purchased, but I now realize that's silly lol but my brain went to microscopy before Hooke's law, and I actually think I'm only just now putting together that they're the same Hooke
well it's the letters to S.S. Constitutive in alphabetical order. that's gotta be it
3:12 is that just an anagram?
5:19 Ah! I was about to suggest it was latin.
7:24 that's a cute system
Roman Numerals were sorta on the right lines of a Latin anagram.
Ah, yes, Dread Pirate Robert Hooke.
cdeeefghlnoppsst (which may or may not be an anagram of "Non debes habere oratores gratissimos pro podcast laterali, sed si facias esse Caroline, Ella et Tom!", we will never know)
welcome back to 9 out of 10 Toms...
Ok, so a pirate who knows about elasticity, you say?
Time to write down a bunch of letters that might translate into something so I can claim the next big scientific discovery :p
With how adamant Tom was you couldn't figure it out, I feel the need to point out I did actually get to "Sic vis, ut tensio" within the runtime of the video and without looking it up!
(Then again, I knew of both this technique and Robert Hooke and Hooke's law before this video, and had even heard the phrase before)
Or as I call it, "E times e equals e."
The spelling instantly reminded me of Hooke's law. Althouth, the zero knowledge proof part is ingenious for his time.
Cor. Pecavi.
My guess is that either he used AI in 1676 somehow, or more realistically, that he wrote dictionaries, and that it's the equivalent of fake towns in maps, being a way for him to check if someone plagiarised his work.
Goddamn Edison!
So it was his PGP key lol
That’s actually how you spell connoisseur
Do people not read hooke's law wikipedia article for fun anymore? Surprised none of them got it immediately lol!
Sorry, but if you wrote down you are way behind the times :-) Screenshot?
Only about a minute in, nothing groundbreaking has really been said apart from the maybe slightly misleading 'you don't need to write it down'. I'm going to guess it's a copying thing, like how maps and dictionaries have fake words or towns so you can tell if they're copied from somewhere else, but at that point it wouldn't be dictionaries. I'm gonna stick with my instincts, though, and go with a map, that he was mapping somewhere 'undiscovered before' and put a random collection of letters on the 'new' landmass so he could tell if anyone was pretending to have made the voyage instead of/before he did.
Wow I cannot believe I got that close. I would not have gotten the science element of it, but knowing Tom as good as anyone can from his videos I should have expected it. Also, it would have been ironic if Hooke had actually not been the one to write that down, he just did the experiment much quicker, slightly later, and had enough time to find the document, unscramble the latin anagram, and claim it as his own before the actual scientist.
1:41 - Tom Scott referencing Alfred Bester on a podcast was not on my 2024 bingo card.
The Kars4Kids song used to play on the radio all the time when I was going to school as a kid so it’s good to know I’m not the only one who hates it
If I can be annoying here: Its not an anagram, rather an initialisation. The difference is that an anagram can be read as a word (like NATO).
you're thinking of an acronym.
Anagrams are when you scramble the letters: "ceiiinosssttuv" is every letter from "ut tensio, sic vis", rearranged into alphabetical order. The initialization and/or acronym would be "UTSV"
@@Poldovico You are correct. Thank you. I mixed up acronym and anagram.
Clearly he just wanted to cheat at scrabble.
"Write to me, Stick Stickly, PO Box 963, New York City, New York state, 10108!"
(it might be 563 or 163. it's been like 30 years. shut up.)
Z Double-O M Box 350, Boston Mass, 0-21-34
🎉cat typed it or other animal.
See-I-know-stuff?
The first few minutes got me hooke
The Dread Pirate Roberts is very disappointed in Tom.
He couldn't spell covfefe.
He had a big abrain of greatest orange
I hate that Kars for Kids commercial. DO-nate, not do-NATE.
"Don't need to write this down...yes you do" Why are you a jerk Tom?
here's some working anagrams btw:
tit viciousness
inuits' viscose
covet sinusitis
CEO visits Tunis
cosiest UN visit
ISIS counties TV