WITCH Booktube Review: The Mists Of Avalon, Marion Zimmer Bradley + Controversy
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2021
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i just gave this book to my 19 year old daughter, i read it while gweniveve was in my womb. it had a huge impact on me and i named her after Morgaine, so powerful. now i don’t think she will read it or love her name as much…🌕
Please tell yur daughter that Morgaine does not belong to my mother, and her life is her own. If you benefited from the book in some way, God bless you, and God bless your daughter.
I’m 65 and have wanted a crescent moon on my forehead since I first saw the movie. Long time.
Yes! One day I'll get it🌙
I was so close to getting a crescent moon on my forehead, but, people talked me out of getting a tattoo on my face.
So, I got a Triple Moon Goddess symbol on my arm, instead.
I felt so connected to the Goddess while reading The Mists of Avalon. It is heart wrenching to learn all of this about the author. It is disconcerting to realize that somebody who produce such a beautiful and profound book can so such horrible things.
I still love and worship the Goddess. But, now I will have to look elsewhere for stories and novels that really show Her.
My heart breaks for her daughter.
I'm glad to see this being talked about in the public sphere. I loved The Mists of Avalon and The Darkover series when I was a teen and they had a profound effect on me. When I found out about her a few years ago I was disgusted and conflicted. I've learned to separate the artist from the art but I just cannot forgive a person who would do that to children esp. their own. I no longer owned any of her books but this made me decide to completely cut her out and never read her works again which was very sad for me. I had always planned to reread The Darkover series. But no work no matter how influential is worth people's lives and well-being.
Marion Zimmer Bradley certainly did her HOMEWORK and I loved every word she wrote. I loved the movie and the cast chosen. It is a real tribute to a reality that cannot be beat. lL. C. Savage
Yes! Thank you so much for saying this!! Learn the lesson an move on. (I am STILL rereading “mists” and it is very difficult to get through now that I’m reading it with a different lens)
You are so wonderful for bringing up these topics and all the magical things you do with your business! Thank you for being you, fellow human!
Thank you for this conversation. I look at my copy unable to reread it as the author’s crimes recontextualizes certain themes and scenes in the book. It does hold the same special place in my early development as a woman, feminist and pagan. Thank you for affirming that we can be grateful for getting to experience this work of art in deeply personal ways while still moving forward to a more evolved, intersectional, equitable and secure place. It’s not healthy to go backwards. I pray MZB’s victims can find greater peace and healing without passing on harm to other vulnerable peoples.
Thank you so much. This book changed my life, I read it at least 20x. Gave it to everyone. And then I learned. And when I tried to reread it, the pedophilia was so apparent. When first the excuse was that young women marrying was just historical (turns out that's not true) it was pedophilia in her book and I can't deal with it anymore. I was very depressed for months.
So beautifully shared and I so agree needing to see the lens of wounds of others and being more compassionate to one another. Thank you for this video.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I have also been dealing with the realization that some of my hero’s are actually monsters. It is so difficult to come to terms with these relationships and how their impact has shaped us as people. It breaks my heart and it’s incredibly important for these discussions. Thank you. 💙
I have read all these books. Mists of avalon is my favourite movie! I had no idea about this!! Where have I been?? Under a rock?? Wow. Blown away. I think you can separate the work from the person. Buying second hand can help this...
Brava for how you addressed these issues. Thanks
I do not know if anyone else has mentioned another female author carrying no horrific reality who specifically writes with conviction and opens up the Arthurian Legend that existed and was as much a part of Scottish -Pictish connection to the legend for almost 2,000 years. She creates an egalitarian importance and understanding that challenges the archetypal Arthurian/chivalry theme. Signe Pike has written an amazing trilogy that accomplished this with better characterization, MUCH stronger story continuity, and brings in mesmerizing pace and scope that outdoes MZB’s effort to show that 6th century CE Scotland was undergoing the same transitions from Scotti-Pict polytheism to mixtures of polytheism adding Christian teachings being incorporated to the very unique Christianity of Erin and what would become Scotland. Signe Pike begins the first book of this historical trilogy that reveals the untold story of Languoreth-a powerful and, until now, tragically forgotten queen of sixth-century Scotland-twin sister of the man who inspired the legendary character of Merlin. The second book does not disappoint “The Forgotten Kingdom”. She equably shows the power and evolving gender roles of what women and men are facing at the spread of patriarchal Xianity in the British Isles. As a historian of religion who incorporates power/gender constructs in my research, I found her books to be beautifully written and well researched. “The Lost Queen” was published in 2018 I believe. I am waiting to read the 3rd book when I am able to truest enjoy it - when the semester is over. It saddens me beyond a real ability to convey the dearth of my wanting to distance myself from Zimmer-Bradley whom I also saw as a liberating of the feminine and the struggle over an absolute patriarchal religion. My mother was the victim of nicest and due to the time it was happening to her, she never got proper help or belief of her story. My aunts confirmed it happened to them as well. Thank you for bringing this into the public light and for sharing your way of coping with it.
Thank you for this commentary and recommendation! I've added her books to my LONG list!
I am so glad you talked about this. This book was so pivotal for me as well. You handled the issues with great sensitivity and insight.
I’m half way through mists of Avalon and I’ve stumbled across this video - I’m gobsmacked 😶 I had no idea. Kind of wish I’d finished reading it before I knew this because it’s going to be very difficult to read it in the same way now.
This video, Elena, is just 1 of many reasons that you are an amazing leader/elder. I truly admire your courage and your stance.
I have never read this book, but if it had the power to kick-start your incredible journey, and to be the foundation that brought you to here, and that despite its controversy you are here in this profound strength after having had that foundation having been shattered... Then there was something else much greater than the author at work.
I felt similarly when I discovered that the writer of the Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass had taken (scientifically verified) extremely questionable nude pics of Alice and her older sister, on whom the Alice stories were based.
The abuse of children is just far too hard to overlook. My heart goes out to anyone who has survived it, and to anyone struggling with the after effects of their would-be heroes that just actually weren't.
Thank you for the work that you do for the community 💗
The content of Mists of Avalon struck me as a little bit cringy and off back then. This was new to me as of tonight, and it was shock. Usually it's the loud and proud male feminists using their pose to hide something evil. There are women I knew in my fandom days who must have just been gutted by finding this out. I'd like to be able to give them a retroactive hug.
This is a very good video. Just like most people here, that book changed my life - as a woman and as a Pagan. When I first heard the allegations and read through the depositions, I was devastated and so heartbroken. In regard to the depositions, I could not believe those words and views came from a person who wrote the most pivotal, the most impactful work of fiction in my life. It was shocking and disgusting, and yet, when you look back at some of the vignettes of that novel in hindsight, it's sort of like, "Yeah, I can kinda see it." It wrecked me for a long, long time and, personally, I could not keep her books in my house. I sobbed when I threw them away - and I did throw them away. It felt like the right thing to do, even though I went through a period of mourning after doing so. It was like a death, and I still have this pang in my heart when I think about it. My sister recently told me she was reading it and I filled her in on some of the details about MZB and she told me she couldn't finish it, and that made me sad, too. It made me almost angry because my sister needs to read that perspective, but at the same time, I can't blame her for not wanting to finish it.
This was a very good and fair perspective. As a teenager, even as a male, you could feel a kind of magic to the story. I read bit and pieces over the years. I decided last year to order the entire series, before I read about the truth and the crimes. As an avid book reader I have debated as to weather or not I was going to read the series or not, but I have not only come to the decision not only to not read them, but to be rid of the books. It is not a matter of judgment, but more so personal comfort.
Blessings ❤
Amazing video. Really enjoy your opinion. I’m really glad you touched on everything you did. Taking humanity as it is, abuse aside (and not tolerated), is the next great philosophy. Tolerance is so important to not be at war with each other constantly.
Thank you, Elaina. I too read Mists of the Avalon and was changed by it and like you the truth about the author had tainted my memory of it. This video and conversation that it encourages is so important. So, thank you again for this thoughtful and thought provoking conversation. ❤
For those of you, like me, who read the book and it changes our lives... Take the words of (paraphrased, not his exact words but his meaning) author John Green to hear as he was about to turn over his book the the publishers. "Its the hardest part of being a writer, as the book no longer belongs to me but it now belongs to the reader" I'm not condoning what she did, but hopefully this releases some guilt we have as readers.
And no, I'm not saying anyone should read this book now.
@@Lana.Created Why not? If it's a good book why should others not read and experience the book?
@@melissaann513 personally, I don't like to promote the works of pedofiles 🤷♀️ also I read it 20 years ago. All I have is a memory of a very long time ago. Not sure if it holds up to the 2021 mentality and I would have to reread it if I wanted to recommend it. Even without the controversy, I don't have that kind of time right now.
I kind of see it as spiritual force that was trying to express itself, and a lot of artists at the time during the 1980s tuned in. Not just Marion Zimmer Bradley, but also the writers and showrunners behind BBC's Robin Of Sherwood and the artists of other works that are thematically similar. It was part of a 1980s Neopagan Zeitgeist and it touched a lot of people. It's just unfortunate that one of the mediums it came through was a pedophile/pedophiliac enabler.
Yes!
I studied visual arts, art history, cinema and literature and some of the male geniuses in these fields unfortunately had totally unacceptable behaviors. In the case where the aggressor is a woman, the condemnation always seems more severe because we all carry within us the myth of the loving and benevolent mother. In this case, aggression not only violates our moral ethics, but also betrays this myth within us, leading to a double condemnation against female aggressors. But if there are still Picasso's paintings in museums, MZB "Mist of Avalon" books should still be presented as the masterpieces that they are, and receive the place they deserves accordingly in the history of litterature. Of course, out of respect for the victims of Picasso or MZB, sharing information about their assaults is just as important. Unfortunately, believing the victims and at the same time recognizing the artistic value of the creations of their aggressors is not easy when the victims are still alive.
She died in 1999. I came forward in 2014.
@moiragreyland I’m so sorry for everything you had to go through😭 it’s so beyond heartbreaking. Thank you for coming out and protecting children and voicing what happened to help those going through what you did. God bless you.
@@witchypoo13 God bless you too. ❤️
it used to be my favorite book but I can't even keep it in my home now because of what the author was. Even before I found out about the horrific abuse I had issues with the book because a child was violently raped in one scene. I am a survivor of multiple sexual assaults and it still affects me today decades later. I really questioned how I could love the book even though a child was assaulted in it. After learning about the real life abuse I know I will never go near that book again. Am I glad I read the book in my early years? I am still trying to figure that out. We do need a lot more stories for women in a positive light because it is true women have often been demonized by men in stories and in life. There are women in the Bible who did nothing wrong who have completely been demonized by men. Bathsheba is considered a temptress, she was actually a faithful wife raped by a king and that king had her husband murdered. Bur all the world views Bathsheba as the evil one and King David as a good king. So many stories like this in the world and we do need to change that.
I read the book when I was younger, and it disturbed me more than feeling "revolutionary". But the scene with the girl being grabbed at Beltane was the one that always stuck out to be. I read the line several time, wondering why it was glossed over so much.
There is another graphic depiction of child rape in her book “the Firebrand” as well. Both books really distressed me too; for the same reasons as you. I’m so sorry to hear you’re a survivor of such trauma, sending you blessings of peace 🖤
Thank you for making this video and sparking the conversation about separating the art from the artist and cancel culture. I won’t write a whole book here, but suffice to say I agree with you. I haven’t read the book, but I will either get the book from the library or secondhand if I decide to.
I just want to say thank you ❤️🌹
Thank you so much for making this video. The things you say in this video need to be said. I also think there is a lot of benefit from reading from things that are controversial/you disagree with. There is always the option of buying it second hand or checking it out of a library.
I have the book and have been reading it for two years. I love it. I read it with my other books. Didn't realize until after the fact about the author, I purchased the whole set beforehand. The books are still good reads.
Thank you! Agreed. I was recently recommended this book and just found out about the whole MZB issue. Nothing will ever excuse child abuse. Some people have behaved like monsters and I won't try to make excuses for them. However, I am really interested in the book. I love art, I love books, movies, paintings even when I don't know enough about the artist to judge them. Love should be encouraged. Positivity should be encouraged. Art should be encouraged. I'm still borrowing the book and reading it because I feel like real art takes on a second life once it is released into the world. It lives in the memories and hearts of people and it transforms into what people see in it. I hope to enjoy it as much as you and millions of others did. I understand, however, how hard it must be for someone who grew up with it to go back and re-read it knowing what we know now. My heart goes out to all the people that have been victims of abuse and all those who didn't speak up in fear of not being believed or who did and weren't believed. Just love and be kind.
👏Very well said.
Twice now I've been going to write a response that quickly turned into a novel, and erased them. Let me just say this Gen X 🧙♀️ is in agreement with you. While the stated subject was not news to me, I like how you expressed many of the thoughts and feelings that have been bubbling up lately, but that I am not so good at expressing beyond in my journals. Lots of food for thought for many of us I am sure. Thank you for this.
Best video you've made yet, and I agree with you on every point. I'm one of those women whose life was completely changed by Mists. I picked it up the day I started college, so at a very pivotal point in my life. It was mind blowing to a rural small town Southern Baptist raised girl and changed the way I looked at and felt about patriarchal religion forever. I actually still have my very first copy I bought and I'm 40 now. I'm exactly like you in that I'm afraid to go back and read it for a multitude of reasons, even though it was a book I had originally planned to read at different stages in my life 😔 I did read the daughter's account that was available on Kindle a few years back and she says that Marion herself was also abused, so it sounds like there was quite an abusive cycle that kept going (as is typical in many abuse cases). I do agree that we can separate the artist from the art, although some things are so heinous it will forever cloud the way we view that art. What would you recommend as a good substitute for Mists, say for younger women who are at the life point we were when we first discovered Mists?
Thank you for speaking on this Elena. I think the way you explained the problem of cancel culture was extremely clear and thoughtful. I agree with you on what you said about that 100%.
I came to this channel not as a supporter of the book or the books you review. I came because even though I knew OF the book, I wasn’t really a fan of it. But having just learned about the author and the horrors that occurred, I wanted to explore a theory I have formed.
I won’t go into it here, but I did want to state that I appreciate that you approached the topic and covered it in a very genuine way. While I know that we don’t read the same genre of books, I do know that hearing what you stated in this video, we do have a great deal in common, and I love finding that - I love conversations[full stop].
I agree that for as much harm as the author brought, the book itself should not be canceled. I do appreciate too that it not be endorsed or recommended. I think it is something to be learned from, and if anyone wants to read it, they go into it knowing the author's history. Being a history person, I view it as we now know about the atrocities; we must learn from the past and not erase it. I think that would be the best way to honor the victims - if they choose to read her books, then go in knowing the truth. I hope that makes sense. And again, thank you for the genuine insight and care that went into this piece.
I am shocked. I haven't looked into MZB in many years, but I love her books. Mists of Avalon and The Catch Trap were the most influential novels in my life. She was as important to gay men as she was to women. Hearing this about her now is saddening me deeply.
I did not know that about Bradley. At times it feels that it is difficult separating the art from the artist. I feel that there has to be assurance where any monetary gains go. For the situation, her daughter is/had gone through, it brings to light that people can hide who they truly are without us knowing until someone speaks up.
You are a DayStar in the Clearing Mist and I thank you. My Sainted Ma would say to me about weighing this or that: “Eat the Meat & Split Out the Bones.” Onwards, there is a particular book that held me evenly throughout my menopausal years that I recommend always as a must have. Peace, Love & Understanding as We Journey♥️ JulMar
Thank you for addressing this issue so eloquently and sensitively. After researching the details, I personally think that Moira's account of MZB's abusiveness and p__dophilia is extremely credible and disturbing.
As a passionate bibliophile whose library is the most valuable part of my home I couldn't bring myself to throw out the books of Bradley's that I had in the Avalon series but I wouldn't recommend them to others.
I first read her novels, the Darkover and Avalon series, as a teen in the '80s into the '90s. When I re-read them again just before the publication of the explosive blog about MZB in 2014 by Deidre Saoirse Moen, I began to see these books as far less empowering than I had originally when younger and as quite disturbing due to themes of SA and the way women and relationships are actually depicted. The revelations by Moira Greyland and other corroborating evidence casts MZB and her novels in a heinous light; MZB's warped way of thinking absolutely permeates her novels.
Unfortunately there's still a particular section of Sci-Fi and Fantasy community who hold similar views as MZB and Walter Breen. Additionally, some well-known and acclaimed authors have continued to excuse, justify, and minimise the couple's actions and to deny Moira Greyland's account; Mercedes Lackey is one who has been dismissive and actively hostile towards Greyland.
While I definitely don't agree with Greyland's belief that LGBT people are innately paedophiles I don't think there's any valid reason to dismiss her personal history and accounts of trauma. Moira has had therapy yet is quite clearly struggling with severe and debilitating C-PTSD and the SA wasn't limited to MZB and Walter Breen but MZB's biological and adopted brothers have also apparently preyed on minors with the resultant damage and trauma continuing to this very day. It's a tragic situation.
I believe in the old idea "Innocent until proven guilty" And the whole idea an evangelical church is involved with all this is just a HUGE red flag on the field. As far as cancelling books....I never thought I'd see Wiccans even suggest such a thing. I mean I could quit Wicca and go back to being Catholic and get that?
I am currently listening to it on Audible and my Goddess this book is so good🌙
Me too!
I haven't read any of her books. I have watched the movie mists of avalon though. So I know what the story is and how great a positive impact it had on showing us a different perspective of the king Arthur story and paganism. I liked it for that reason.
What is the name of the athor of that purple book, I think the title is mage, I keep seeing it in your videos but can't find it on the internet with just the title
There were many unconventional and possibly inappropriate relationships between mother and children in the book. Your explanation is mind blowing.
Taliesin’s Mantle Battle of the Trees by Anne Hamilton is just about to be released and may be of interest to those seeking a similar story.
I haven't read this book. Thankyou for using the term And instead of But for explaining.
I do not by any means wish to make an excuse for Marion Zimmer Bradley, but I believe that many artists are able to create their works because they are open to what we might call the "psychic realm", and that can allow beings from the lower astral plane to influence them. ON THE OTHER HAND, someone like M. Bradley should not have been naive---it was her responsibility be aware of the character flaws that could allow dark forces to enter her life. It was her responsibility to protect herself (and her family) through therapy, self knowledge, and spiritual practices.
I separate art from the artist
I have never read Bradley's books. I don't know if I ever will. But I do know how the behavior behind the scenes can change how I see the creative work. I can't watch the final season of a show I started out enjoying, because the bad blood between the main characters resulted in one person only speaking to the other while in character. I always think about that when I see the actor whose entitlement ruined the show.
You so eloquently discussed a very difficult topic. Thank you for always being such an honest and well rounded critic. I agree with you, the awakening was real. I remember. I think what this book did was help us women free ourselves from the box we were put in. It opened up another world for us or rather, it blew open the world and let us see that there was so much there that we never had access to before. But I know subconsciously, we were craving it! That being said, I believe as an artist , that her writing it when she did, it was a reflection of the time. It was mirroring back to us what we craved, what women were already fighting for. Personally, I always had a very hard time with the incest between Arthur and Morgaine. I know that the rite they engage in is symbolic but it always felt sickening to me. I have to be honest, now knowing what we know, I question the relevance, of its inclusion in the book. It makes me feel like she was pulling one over on us. Of the series, I have only ever read the Mists of Avalon and oddly enough, yesterday a friend gifted my all of her books from the series. I was so excited to start reading this week. I didn't know about the sexual abuse! I just stumbled across your video in my CZcams feed this morning! I won't be reading. I know we can separate the artist from the art but in this case, I can not. I agree with you 100 % about cancel culture. (Thank you so much for voicing your thoughts on this!) For me, my decision is personal as it triggers my own experience. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this difficult subject! Blessings to you!
I’m a male occult practitioner I can’t speak on how this book effects the life of others but it effected me in the way of I try to see every side of every story and it has helped me see that no one’s hands are clean
Mists of Avalon has made a profound effect on me. As disturbing as it is, for me it feels like depicting the whole idea of being a woman: heartbreaks, shame, mistakes and their consequences, eternal longing for your own Avalon, a sanctuary of spirit, dwelling in mist.
This is not the first case of me being disenchanted by the gloomy reality behind the wonderful story. It is always so tempting to view the authors of our beloved novels as wise and perfect beings of light. Of course all of them are merely people, some of them severely flawed, but what I have come to realize is that in the end my perception of the book belongs to me only, despite all the possible connotations I might not even know about beforehand. By no means my love of the book implies that I admire an author as a person. We are just the observers of the stories, and we are free to take as much as we can out of it. The authors are not our guides or gurus, but if some of their creations and insights feel nurturing to our souls or are just enjoyable to experience - let it be so.
The choice, however, remains up to everyone, and I can also totally understand those who can't unsee the dark truth while rereading the book of their youth
I can agree that people can have differing views, but when the views actively do harm to others that is where my personal line is. I had issue with one of the author's from the last book subscription box, as they are an antivaxxer and as a disabled person with auto immune diseases, that is a dangerous opinion. Especially because there is so much anti-science mentality in occult spaces and it is legitimately dangerous right now. I opted to not join the discussion for the book as i wasn't sure if the author would be joining and i couldn't support that. i also couldn't support the blatant fatphobia and ableism in the book because it was deeply hurtful to read.
Id like to know why we cant find this movie to stream anywhere.....🤔
I think I've read that.
Thank you, Elena. This video sparked a great conversation between my husband and myself about separating the artist from the art. He is Jewish (I am not) and there are a number of authors and people in the entertainment industry who are anti-semitic. He admits that it has an effect on how he views the art, not just the artist, but he doesn't like that it does. Prior to this conversation, I didn't know that he struggles with this.
MoA profoundly impacted my world and influenced my creative expression. When I found out about Marion, I was horrified and rejected the book. As you say, I couldn't reconcile it... initially. But in time, I saw that the way she expressed the feminine so deeply and truly came from the extreme polarity she carried of the feminine energy. To express that powerfully meant she carried the full spectrum of light and dark to extreme levels, and it turns out she succumbed to her shadow in evil expressions. In the end, 10 years or more on from when I read it, I continue to value it as an expression of complex light and shadow feminine energy. This whole situation forced me to look more at the shadow feminine, and as someone who strongly aligns with Lilith, this has been part of a wider story of integration of the duality of it all, leading towards unification. MoA and what Marion showed me is part of my novel I Am Lilith.
Gorgeously expressed. Thank you for such a thoughtful process.
Thank you. I had zero background on these disturbing issues before watching this video. I am grateful to receive your insights before wrestling with harsher opinions. I will take this container of Deep Safety into my personal work for reflection on the much wider dilemmas you have described. 😞 There is a writer, Evangeline Walton, who wrote a series of fantasy stories based on Welsh folklore. Her work does not pass academic muster today, and is not a series of direct translations, but I found them personally meaningful and beautifully written. Her female characters exude an insight and power well ahead of her time. Her reputation withered in the shadow of Tolkien, and others, which reflects another example of how artistic contribution can also be stifled and forgotten. Her work may be a worthy alternate to consider. Many thanks, again.
I'm am 57yrs old, Sister, and Yes, The Mist's of Avalon is one of my all time FAV'S, have replaced it several times, cover always falls off. Morgana is Surely More Cunning than most...Bad Ass book, transformative in many ways.... 🌛👽🌜
Omg I never heard these allegations I'm stunned. I thought you were going to say she wasn't intersectional enough 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
That book has been sitting in my shelf unread for years. Time for it to go!
Why?
Why? Just read it first before throwing it out!
I remember The Mists of Avalon blew my mind when I first read it but FWIW I will say I re-read it many years later and it didn't pack the same wallop. Maybe because I'd read more books like The Red Tent or even Wicked that wrote well-known stories from a point of view that turned the story on its head so it wasn't as unusual. I agree with separating the art from the artist but it's hard in this case since the reason you love it is because you felt like it was giving voice to the unheard and empowering them and then you find out what she did and it seems to spit in the face of that.
I read this book many times and even years after reading it, after all i went through, that book was again eye opening and i understood it on other many levels. It is very sad that on her personal life the author was a very twisted horrible person, because her book, her work life was a masterpiece. And this book needs to be read. That book still is a great thing that author did. I am sad that this will stop new readers to her books. Its a very disturbing situation and hard discussion.
This is my favorite book. Even with the author’s abuse coming to light. The book is worthwhile enough to my own personal experience that I can still appreciate the creation without supporting the actions of the creator. If I cut out a creation/invention due to its creator/inventor than many of life’s necessities and conveniences would be restricted to me.
I'm like more than halfway through the book so I will finish it. Sad to hear this news.
I feel bad for the victims.
Separating art from the artist has its pros and cons, but I must say I agree with you. Things like political opinions are minor details compared to someone like MZB who did abuse children and unfortunately, that chain of events has caused her daughter to become a very anti-gay spokesperson, which has led to a very toxic circle. I personally find it very difficult to separate the art from the artist, but I have realized, that it is very difficult for me to enjoy someone's work if I know they did something awful. I had a very painful time disconnecting myself from Harry Potter, and it happened after I found out that Rowling had financially supported English politicians who were against gender reassignment, before that I thought her opinions were just harmless. Yet, there are trans people who think what she is saying is harmless but do they know what is actually going on.
allegations? ive read her daughters autobiography. it dampened my memories of reading Mists in high school over and over, but i have to draw the line some where.
I hope you read it again, that monster wrote an amazing book that most certainly stands the test of time and as a grown woman felt the book was in no way elementary .
It's so internally confusing when these things happen; and there really aren't any right answers as to what to do with a book that had such a positive impact on readers but was written by a predator. I think that the issue is that it's just so mind-boggling that something so positive could be written by such a monster.
This whole cancel culture is terrible. I can see if you don't want to financially support or contribute to someone like this. But she is deceased now so that's not really applicable. Or you could check it out from the library. But to miss out on a wonderful book because of an opinion or action of the author seems ridiculous. For instance all the canceling of the Harry Potter books because of a tweet from the autor is ridiculous.
It's not just one tweet, though. She wrote an entire book about a man who kills women while dressed up as a woman. It's not just "one tweet." It's a pattern of behavior and issues in Rowling's art itself, as well as how she has continued to respond to the situation. In the case of MZB it is somewhat concerning considering her crimes that a lot of the real taboos in her book involve incest and that seems to be the epitome of her crimes as well as her husband's.
It's not just about one tweet.
And pedophilia is a pretty big action- it's not a harmless screw up.
Using your own logic, since the author is dead and can't be harmed, it's perfectly fine to do whatever you want with her works.
Rowling is financially supporting British politicians who completely want to stop gender re-assignments performed in Britain. I'd say that shows what kind of a person Rowling really is.
Separating the art and artist is something I’ve struggled with (I read a lot of classics). I did want to read this book but since learning about her, I immediately removed her book from my Goodreads list. Even if I could completely compartmentalize the book and the artist, knowing what I know, how could I read the book at not have her horrific actions in the forefront of my mind and view it through that lens. I just can’t support someone who committed such monstrous acts.
I am choosing to burn my MZB books. I am able to read Moira Greyland's book for free, which I am in the middle of doing now because I feel like I should. It is filled with horror, and hate, and other terrible offences, and more than any woman should ever have to endure. That being said, and though I empathize with Moira as a CSA survivor of a former family member, I feel as if she is a victim of the Church as well. It seems to me that she is unable to separate pedophilia from LGBTs, which is horrific and terrifying for her I'm sure, and for us. I also understand that she is still deep in her trauma, and yet I am less than half her age and am able to separate my abuse from heterosexuals and heterosexuality as a whole. At some point, I do think it's fair to hold adults accountable for their bigotry this many decades later. I think survivors are able to both empathize with Moira's past and no doubt current pain, and condemn the words in her book that conflate being gay with being a pedophile. You haven't read it, and though I don't encourage anyone to do it, it includes many of her personal beliefs, which appear to be her shifting the blame of her parents pedophilia onto LGBTs as a whole. Predators are predators, no matter the sexuality. It's been very difficult to reconcile.
I haven't read Moira's book, but I did look up her website and some interviews of her and I completely agree with your analysis. It's clear the poor woman is still deeply in her trauma, and while dealing with trauma can in and of itself be a traumatic and hurtful experience, I do think there should come a time for intervention if it's clear that trauma is manifesting as the passing on of wounds. Otherwise the survivor of abuse could easily become an abuser themself and use the "Well, I went through XYZ" as the justification, and before you know it, the cycle's started all over again. I saw a clip of Moira appearing at an anti-LGBTQ youth conference and her calm, prepared speech dissolved into a screaming rant and all I could think about was the kids in the audience forced there by their parents because "Being gay is evil and we're going to nip this in the bud".
Love the book-read it decades ago-I wonder if part of the controversy over the current Doctor Who episodes has to do with the 13th Doctor being female….Not aware of the controversy concerning her, so I can’t comment anything else.
I think Doctor Who’s problem was not because they made the title character female, I think it more had to do with bad writing, mediocre acting, completely overhauling and rewriting the continuity.
I had no idea what the author was accused of until i saw your video. I was abused by my own mother as she was areligious nut ( manic and schizophrenic). She was never held responsible for what she did to me and my sisters. She perpetrated Munchausen by proxy on me and poisoned me for about 5 years. I can't say how I feel about this author doing those things. Now I have to look into the daughter's experiences.
What writer didnt have huge past issues? Its very possible she is a split personality. The dark one abused and the writer wrote . A dark past makes a good writer half the time, more to bring to the table and more shifts and awareness. Marion is one of the most gifted writers to date , she had a very dark side and a very gifted side. The deeper your wounds the deeper you write. If you read her works without knowing WHO she was, it would not affect you unless you are sensitive and picking stuff up in the stories
Most people don't do (deep) ' background' checks on things they use, buy, consume, art ( all forms). They either go by brief encounter or simple hearsay. ( Usually positive)
More often than not, people do the activities first, and then learn about the ' negatives'.
So then what? It's too late to undo the past choices ( and easy to hate what you did).... But maybe use a little forgiveness on yourself and vow to do better with the new knowledge
Glad I never touched that one.
I find it odd to see how almost ALL the women of this world worship & bend the knee to a male god. When, if you look through history, one of the first beings worshipped by both men AND women was the venus of willendorf prehistoric mother goddess.
It reminds me a little of the scene from V for Vendetta, when V abducts Evie, and tortures her. "In believing the lie, we find something true about ourselves." That is the lesson of MoA for me. I still read and appreciate it, and almost never think of her. I can separate the art from the artist.