look, the entire BGS (ex) fanbase is living in this weird state of perpetual adolescence. You do realize the entire franchise, including the first games are HORRIBLY written, right? from a sociological point of view, fallout is probably the dumbest, simplest schmeer made for developmentally stunted kids. fallout fans just blindly believe that descendants of descendants of survivors ("raiders") would be so stupid that they would hang rotting bodies from the ceiling, inside a closed and insulated space that THEY SLEEP IN. that culture would not survive a SINGLE generation. google typhus, you absolutely helpless imbecile. also, even an uneducated dummy like me know about the value of passing down a written account of recorded knowledge. books. not one schmuck in the fallout universe cares about any other literature than grognak. people trade in bottlecaps. instead of grams of salt for example, which would make so much more sense, and the use of such a currency would be something the people could learn about from all the history books that are completely intact in multiple libraries in every city i've seen in the fallout universe. you know, salt, the FOOD PRESERVATIVE. but of course they don't need that, bc they can just loot cram. that would work. fallout fans, and every single writer that ever worked on ANY of the titles are so dumb its depressing. and the dumbest? you. the person analyzing fallout at an adult age, and your brain just never picked up on any of this. because all fallout fans are high school dropouts. Tim Cain is the definition of overrated. fallout SUCKS
Jesus fucking christ, did Tim Cain and Todd Howard rape & kill your parents or something? This is probably the most angry ass comment I've ever seen on anything fallout related
Because everyone would just call it the boneyard. You do realize it's a wasteland right? People wouldn't have the same names for things all the time. Especially the ghoul he would still call it LA since that's what he remembers it as.
@@michaelostergren3516 True, (nerd aneurysm incoming) but when there's no mention of any prior/current settlement in L.A. as a reference or nothing, it's just another dead city with a functioning power grid somehow? It just makes it come across as if Bethesda couldn't care less about previous lore seeing as it's mentioned as a growing place in NV 10 years before the show takes place & how they already moved Shady sands location for plot convenience. Might come across as whining but if you're writing a show based on a location that's already been written for you the least you could do is watch a recap instead of just wiping the slate
@bearlogg7974 I mean.. in the game it's not exactly clear where it is either. The map from fallout 1 isn't exactly accurate. But I get what you mean. I think Bethesda and the director really wanted to focus on the mystery of vault tech and why they did the experiments in the first place. So they condensed alot of things to make it work. But at the same time we have no idea how much time passes in between cuts. It could be days or weeks of time they walked for. They cut that kinda stuff out of shows for brevity. Plus in the games themselves distances are significantly shortened, like Boston is so much bigger in real life but it's just a quick 10 minute run in game. It really feels like they honed in on the game logic. I.E Stimpacks
The problem is that the most marketable aspects of fallout are its post apocalyptic scavenging, as well as the BOS and the enclave. So it behooves Todd and Emil to keep the world as stagnant as possible. They’ll probably keep doing this until the money dries up, so basically never.
Yeah even playing fallout new Vegas I enjoy and spend my time wandering around blasting raiders and collecting stuff to sell But it’s that world building, characters and fantastic writing that’s keeps me engaged and coming back and just thinking about the game and the setting as a whole Like I look at fallout 4 and gameplay wise and mod wise well that’s literally just that but better with less crashing but then I try it and get immediately bored with the sheer lack of narrative substance that game has I’m having moments fun but it’s like messing around in gmod theres no meat too it. Like a fallout game can have that iconography and that general expected gameplay loop but it doesn’t bar it from actually being a fallout game narratively and thematically but Bethesda in their post Emil era can’t write to save themselves so it’s as you said stuck being a now a franchise that is purely just caps and scrap post apocalypse rather than its core identity of a post post apocalypse world where human factions carve out their identity and existence in the fallout of the ideas that lead to a post nuclear world
its so funny tho because the post-apocalyptic scavenging they choose to depict is picking up six hundred cups. in new vegas you go looking for superweapons
They could create more marketable aspects of the franchise if they had talent. Think about how memorable the Legion is, or House is with the Securitrons, for example. They have no confidence in themselves and no desire to take risks.
@@CrizzyEyes thats the most frustrating thing. every black isle/obby fallout game introduces new things and, because they write well, people love them. it makes sense since fallout comes out of tabletop games, its built for ideas generation. its doubly frustrating when you consider the cool stuff bethsoft is capable of, i love mirelurks and those little liberator robots from 76
@@basedsneedclave175the problem with bethesda is that they they treat fallout the same way with elder scrolls making you literally play skyrim but with guns.
If you like fallout 4 you probably like the show. I Had the same feelings towards the show as I did fallout 4. It felt like both were dumbed down for the average consumer to maximize profits.
Product-market fit. Show is aimed at the same people that looter shooter for casuals was aimed at. And it was a perfect fit - they're ready to jump at your throat if you dislike the product they consume.
I prefer NV to 3 or 4, and I really liked the show. If season 2 manages to not shit all over the tone of NV, I'll forgive whatever retcons it makes along the way. Like before season 1 dropped, my hopes are not high
The bonus thing is misunderstood. Chris Avellone has come out multiple times (I believe Josh Sawyer has as well) and said that it was a good-will thing Bethesda offered above-and-beyond the already agreed upon contract, and Obsidian themselves don't blame Bethesda. It was their fault for not meeting the mark and being overly ambitious in their project scope. I say this as a West Coast purist.
Yea people really like to exagerrate this rivalry between bethesda and obsidian, usually to make bethesda and todd howard out to be the bad guy, when really it's a false dichotomy to begin with. The two companies don't even hate eachother, the devs do not have bad blood with eachother, they would not have made new vegas in the first place if any of that were true. It's just people projecting their own hate onto made up scenarios
When he refers to the bonus thing, wasn't he referring to Tim Cain being gyped out of a bonus by interplay, which is what caused him (partially) to leave? He has said as much in his own videos
Then you’d know it as a west coast purist that Bethesda bribed game reviewers at the time to specifically decrease the Metascore, knowing they were already lucky the console version was horrendous. Check out Chris Avellone’s recent tweets :) unlike Josh, Chris is not bound by corporate hierarchy.
This big issue with fallout 3 purified water Is... Well it's the only water people can safely drink and farm with. The entire wasteland popoulation would at least try to move and Settle around that River for obvious reasons. Farming and economical traffics would go up exponencially. The DC zone would turn into a Power house from wich the Brotherhood of steel would forge a new nation... This could create the bases of the Brotherhood waging war against the institute and so on. But no. No real ints and reasons are given for that. Meanwhile the NCR Is in desperate Need of water and Power for his struggling nation. They are on the brink of Mass starvation. Controlling (patrolling) the mojave and Hoover dam makes Absolute sense.
We don't really know what Capital Wasteland is like in 2296. Also I think the NCR food/water issue was alluded to be resolved in the show since people were just farming locally.
Yeah the brotherhood could have effectively had the same presence in the commonwealth without destroying the capitol wasteland, having the east coast chapter actually overshadow it's west coast counterparts as a proper nation was one of the few interesting ideas Bethesda put on the table and then they backpedaled. I think I wouldn't mind the retcons as much if Bethesda had a more follow through on their own ideas.
@@corypowercat7277 It's not 2296 we are talking about. It's fallout 4's setting, which I believe is 2287. Also, we do know what happened. DC became an authoritarian state under the control of elder maxson. He is worshipped as a god there. Likely because the brotherhood control the water supply and are the only viable source of military protection, even if it is put to bad use.
Fallout since 76 has just been fully Elder-Scrolls-Ified. The setting is now an inconsistent mess without anything that really matters, which is extremely stupid when the writing of the world was the main appeal in the first place. Now Fallout is just an ambiguous concept, a backdrop for whatever Todd and Emil decide is cool in the moment without any respect to any kind of limitations or rules. It's just a less jokey 50s borderlands now.
@@goblin3810 funny how successful Transformers movies are, yet they don't appear in the imdb top 250. Newer Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles aren't successfull because of the shit writing and inconsistencies, but despite it.
I always see people harp on NV lovers for complaining about the Bethesda fallouts for "thinking they know better" or something but the tonal difference between them is night and day. Bethesda so obviously rely more on the setting and iconography of the series without really wanting to hit any of the original themes about macro management of communities. The commitment to depowering the player and making them figure out the setting for themselves is exactly what captivated many fans, A game that is actually about something. There is a distinct and measurable line between fans who enjoyed deeply engaging with the dynamics of the fallout world and people who see it as an apocalypse flavored sandbox, like how many skyrim and fallout videos do you see running 500+ mods to change the game inside out and they are still only running around killing stuff with ENBs and anime hair. The show IS fine. Writing is a bit weird but all the essence of fallout is there. Its the raw gall to tamper with New Vegas when everything about that game runs parallel to what their mainline games do. Its not ruined, but changing so much is such an unnecessary tantrum like thing to do. If they were worried about the storyline of new vegas just set it in the same time and have it happen in the background of the story they want to tell. But they cant because they dont know how. Bethesda games are always always doomed to create some underdeveloped nonsense focus for a story that is only important because they force it to be.
Problem with this is NV is nothing like Fallout 1, tonally, stylistically or mechanically. Fallout 2 is nothing like 1 either and in fact 2 is far sillier, far more tonally inconsistent and far dumber than anything Bethesda has done with the franchise (I say that as someone who likes 2 the best as well). Fallout 3 is tonally and narratively closer to 1 than any other title in the series is. People can rightly point out logic holes (although as if there aren't mountains of those in NV or FO2) or personally dislike elements of it, but this idea that there's some predefined 'classic Fallout' that 2 and NV are examples of, is utterly ridiculous. Beyond some surface level visual elements NV and FO2 are nothing like the original at all, they're not even that much like each other. The writing in FO2 is inconsistent as all hell and the writing in NV has it's peaks and valleys too. All fans like yourself are doing is creating and maintaining a sense of elitism. If NV and 2 actually were more like 1 than the bethesda titles are then you'd have some sort of an argument but they aren't like 1 and they aren't even like each other *and* the closest title to the original by far is a bethesda title. People who like FO3 or even 4 may well like them for their writing, roleplaying, world or themes. Suggesting that they only like Fallout for the "sandbox" but people who agree with you like it for "deeply engaging with the dynamics of the world" is as overtly pretentious as it gets. Btw, FO3 is also thematically closer to 1 than the rest of the series is and certainly 2 and NV are worlds apart from the core themes of 1. Those core themes also weren't about macro managing communities. Shows how much you know I guess. Your second paragraph also makes no sense whatsoever. Bethesda didn't make the show, didn't write it, didn't come up with the idea to tie it into NV, didn't come up with the idea to use shady sands. None of that has anything to do with bethesda or their style at all. And just like how NV is nothing like 2 and neither of those are anything like 1, Fallout 4 is nothing like 3. So how much of a predefined style does Bethesda even have when it comes to Fallout? I lose brain cells reading comments like yours, I hate to be rude but I honestly do. You're just being a pretentious elitist nerd. Try relaxing, liking what you like, disliking what you dislike, but just without being all elitist about it. It isn't hard to do. You don't need to like Fallout 3, or 4 or whatever. You also don't need to do all this.
@@dommoore6180I couldnt have said it any better myself. This comment should be required reading for every fallout fan. Ive been saying these points for years(lifelong Fallout fan) but ppl dont wanna listen. I think it stems from the fact that a majority of the fans of the series now come post bethesda. And most of them havent even played the originals to completion. They mostly watch lore videos and read the wiki. Which is fine im not judging. The older ones can be very off putting because of the age and sheer difference of gameplay. So they play 3,NV, and 4 and then compare them to the older titles that most of them havent actually played and say "look look NV is more true to the originals(mainly Fallout 2)" which is only true of the setting being on the west coast and incorporating factions from there. But they couldnt be more different in so many ways. Also people shit on bethesda but dont actually realize that without them, we wouldnt even have new fallouts to play at all. Most of the current fan base wasnt around when the franchise was dead. I remember those days. Most of us at the time were resigned to the fact that we werent gonna get any new fallouts after VB was killed. The series was DEAD. I cant even begin to express the joy i felt when Fallout 3 was announced and even more still when i played it for the first time. But what do i know im just dude getting older by the day reminiscing.
@@MrSpotface Its always New Vegas fans acting like that game is the 2nd coming of christ (it isn't). They never played the original two games. They shit on Fallout 3 even though that game set the groundwork for New Vegas to even be a thing (the 3D engine).
Fallout, as any piece of art in modern media, has become a big franchise. An IP. It has been commodified to hell and adapted for mass production under the grasp of a team of executives that don't really care all that much about the themes, the personality, the identity, and the art that went into it originally. As long as it sells, it just works. Happened with Star Wars. Happened with Halo. And it Happened with Fallout. The show is nice. I'm happy the actors aren't being attacked for it. But it isn't the Fallout I fell in love with, and It wasn't the goal of Todd, or Nolan, or anyone in the top of the production to make it so. Corporations destroy art and the things we love for the sake of profit and industry. Hold on tight to the stories you love, and don't let any big company with a fancy logo behind it tell you how to engage with these stories crafted by people like you and me. And as long as the communities around these pieces of art exist to preserve their history, we can always go back to watch A New Hope, play Halo CE, or play Fallout 1.
It also critiques how ostensibly liberal democracies can very easily give rise to far right, militaristic societies that expand in an imperialistic fashion. Then Bethesda makes the BOS into just that with not much awareness imo.
Why do all the turbo analyst heads keep saying it’s a “good show”? We HAVE good shows. We have Avatar, Breaking Bad, Star Trek. We have BABY SHOWS that are capable of telling a real story
@@gaulicwarlord gotta love how honestly minor the brotherhood are in older games with the point being that seclusive cosplaying as knights in a secured functioning vault doesnt have much honour, when all you want as the player is some help with a vault water chip to save everyone inside, and they still try to get yourself killed. Wow these people should definitely be the main characters.
its annoying because as much as people harp on about fallout 3's "apocalyptic environment", they don't realize (likely due to them not playing the first games) that its a really good example of Bethesda's inability to effectively worldbuild. in a world in which 80 yrs after the bombs fell, humanity one the west coast has already developed small settlements, trade, agriculture, etc. and roughly 80 yrs after, have developing nation states with massive infastructure, we have F3, in which a large plot point of the main story involves a water crisis.... in D.C. of all places. Not to mention the fact that this so called crisis isn't present in the game outside of the main quest in any significant way except for some random hobo outside of megaton. A setting where we see no form of sustainable agriculture or livestock farming. We're made to believe that for 200 years, these people have been surviving off of scavenging and molerat meat? Where raiders and super mutants (which their existence in the east coast is a lazy contrivance in it of itself) 10x the actual civilian population. Things like this combined with the whole existence of places like megaton and tennpenny tower really paint a picature of bethesdas design philosophy: I imagine they set up a dev meeting, in which ppl brainstorm random ideas for a quest, then have any designer pick out an idea from a jar and are just told to go crazy, without any consideration for the setting, or even other questlines. It's the same reason we have dragon breaks in TES. The D.C. setting could've been soo much more realized. Imagine having multiple factions, each in control of prominent pieces of DC infastructure, roads, levees, the metro system, etc. Proper explainations as to how locations interact with each other and how you can affect these ineractions. Instead we have a bunch of self contained "wacky" stories that don't really inform the setting at all, and recycled elements of the previous games. While the world design is neat, it doesnt feel real, same as the show. That a big part of the premise of fallout was to explore the ethics of post nuclear america, and with that, having really good worldbuiling is a necessary part of exploring that premise.
I think those Tim Cain quotes aren't contradictory if you understand the first one to mean, "I'm more interested in creating an interesting worldspace to explore, I'm not here to reinvent the wheel of what a plasma gun is." Because then that would explain why the combat is so exciting and meaningfully gratuitous. It's not about the rifle being some Halo space age design. It's about having a simple sprite that does a shit ton of damage while you're crawling through the world he helped invent.
It’s less about the narrative and captivating dialogue nowadays and more about the aesthetic, it’s that moment where you can point at the TV and go look a stimpak and the show nailed that aesthetic but it forget the reasons for that aesthetic mainly in the lore which has become increasingly inconsistent after fallout 4 but hey we still Have the pip boy with his iconic thumbs up! Cool but for example why do the ghouls now need to take Chems to stay as regular ghouls and not turn feral? Why was timeline of the NCR retconned? Hey don’t worry we’ve got highly detailed vault suits, doesn’t the show look good! To quote dick the birthday boy “how does it feel to see all your favourite franchises go down in flames?” Maybe it doesn’t matter maybe it just works?
1. The NCR was not ‘retconned’ whatsoever. I’m a New Vegas fanboy myself and I was really disappointed with the route they decided to take the NCR’s fate, but that’s completely different from retconning. I really wish you people would stop using that word. 2. Actual fans of the originals who don’t have nostalgia glasses on, would recognize that the lore has literally been inconsistent since the beginning, from Fallout 1 to 2 there were some massive lore changes and additions. This did not all start with Fallout 4 lol.
@@earhearthush-up5549They said it's capital was destroyed in 2277, despite it still clearly existing in New Vegas. Before you go saying the chalkboard is unclear. That is just a lame excuse. If the Nuke was suppose to represent something else. Why not mention it. Also it isn't just that the NCR Capital was nuked. It is as if it never existed. This whole nation. Made up of various cities. A whole civilization is just gone within 2 decades. The nuking of Shady Sands was just a convenient and sloppy way to get rid of a civilized wasteland. They wanted the wild untamed wasteland seen in Fallout 1. Instead of setting the show literally anywhere else, or any other time they just pretend as if the NCR never existed and claim somehow one nuke wiped it all out. I saw the same thing happen with the New Republic in The Force Awakens. They wanted to go back to Empire vs Rebels so they blow up the New Republics home system and act like it never existed to begin with. Both the Fallout show and TFA act as if history and progression aren't a thing and keep things static. A few inconsistencies here and there aren't an issue, but this one is pretry huge and has massive ramifications for the story and lore of Fallout going forward. Just because a past story had an inconsistency does not excuse future inconsistencies.
First off, fantastic format for video and conversation bro, and a great topic to discuss. You should really, REALLY sit down to play Fallout 1 and 2 one of these days my friend. They have FANTASTIC writing, and a huge variety of multilayered quests. Some of the most memorable villians in all of the franchise as well, with tons of ways to replay.
I think it is a good show and I think it does a good job of adapting the feeling of playing FO3 and 4. I agree, if it was set in the East Coast I could just ignore it from the canon like I do the BGS titles (FO76 has absolutely no respect for any lore). The issue is setting it in the West Coast and just reverting it to a lawless wasteland like 3 and 4. Even FO1 was more civilized that the hellhole the show is, and that game takes place 135 years before the show. I just can't buy that the nuking of Shady Sands caused the complete collapse of the NCR, or that the BoS is this huge organization after being repeatedly kicked from California by the Enclave and the NCR, or that the Enclave still operates in California despite being destroyed by the Chosen One and later the NCR. Fallout 1, 2 and NV spent 120 years crafting the story of a world rebuilding and the conflicts between different ways of doing it, and Bethesda took 15 years to undo all that and reset the wasteland to a post-apocalyptic setting. The aesthetic is excellent, some of details show a great care by the creators, but the conflict between groups of people that is present in the West Coast games was replaced by the personal stories of 3 individuals that crossed paths at different points, like if three Fallout 3 players had their own stories and sometimes meet one of the other players doing their things. The factions don't matter, the towns don't matter (hell, the Ghoul killed like half a town in his introduction, if this happened on a regular basis how does people still live here?), the ideologies don't matter. I want to say something for this last point, because I think there is one story that is great and it's the pre-war flashbacks. The criticisms to mccarthyism, war profiteering and money's influence in politics is exactly what Fallout was trying to say. It's a shame they found no way to transfer those topics to the current time, all of that stayed in the past. New Vegas managed to incorporate all those elements in their story though, and that's what gives weight to the game, it says something. You're not just a wanderer that goes from one isolated town to another isolated town, fighting monsters on the way. The Mojave feels like a world that existed before you, and in some way would still function if you do nothing, because it shows realistic people with realistic motivations and actions.
I agree with you. I do however really take issue with the idea that Vault tec and house agreed to nuke America for blah blah cooperate control something something. This concept seems at odds with the narrative and diminishes House's stature. As a technocrat, he prides himself on being more capable and forward-thinking than other factions, having predicted and prepared for nuclear war, safeguarding a significant part of Vegas. This narrative undermines his unique claim to leadership."
@@robsquare2622 I think House is a fraud. And I wouldn't be surprised that he "predicted" the war by being told by Vault-Tec that the war was going to happen and then saying that he predicted it. However, I don't think that scene really retcons House, as he could have predicted the war before this meeting, and he is the only one shown not to be on board with the plan of starting the war. I wouldn't trust anything House says though. He is New Vegas' Elon Musk, and Elon Musk was shown to be a charlatan that doesn't know anything about anything. House could be just stealing credit from his employees. He totally controls the narrative, after all. Every detail from House's official story comes directly from his dialogue or the terminals at his own companies.
@@robsquare2622 FWIW House was the most skeptical at that meeting. Vault-Tec may have intended to decide the date the bomb's fell but they didn't control the Chinese nukes and the fact that a high ranking Vault-Tec exec's daughter was helping her dad at a kids b-day party on drop day makes me think Vault-Tec was caught on their back foot. In fact that would be a great explanation for why House's "calculations" were a day off. As for the timeline issues just kick the events of FNV back 10 years to 2071, then everything lines up well and it matters little if the events between FO2 and FNV take place over 30 or 40 years.
@@robsquare2622 They should have explain their motivations better, from my understanding it's about "elites" ideology that there is too many peoples on earth, too many peoples not enough ressources -> wars; so to end wars you have to "reset". In the show this complex thinking is very suggestive.
One thing I never understood was why do people believe believe the NCR collapsed? All that says on the chalkboard was Shady Sands fell, not the NCR. Shady Sands wasn't even the capital anymore according to the billboard. Even Bethesda has outright stated the NCR is very much still alive elsewhere. The NCR at the observatory were pretty much just a small group of soldiers sent there with Moldaver for her mission to retrieve Cold Fusion Tech. Also, the westcoast BoS was pretty much just a remnant trying to rebuild with new Aspirants as depicted on the show. The Brotherhood Knights and Paladins with power armor that came on the airship were obviously from the east coast. You can tell because the Aspirants act like they never seen an airship before nor have they ever seen T60 power armor. So pretty obvious when the airship arrived they're not part of that Brotherhood chapter.
Pretty good video, the only thing is that I wouldnt say Fallout 1's quests were quite so basic. Junktown and even the main quests see more complex choices than what you see in 2, 3, and 4. I would agree that NV was the peak of this idea tho.
Thank you for articulating most of my criticisms with the show. I disagree on only one point, which is that the show's visuals suck too. Why is every villager in the first town where the protagonists show up together wearing whatever scrap they happened to find? There's a dude literally wwearing wicker baskets for clothes. Another wears pots and pans. Thats just an idiot's idea of what a wasteland would be. In fallout 1 and 2 people wore clothes, simple clothes. Their towns made sense and were ordered like any civilization that was focused on survival would do.
I played the games starting back in 1998. I wasnt happy about the first person switch, but getting used to that change made it so i absolutely love the show. For me its all about social commentary and criticism of hierarchies. It still upholds that legacy and im glad the show was so good
But that's the point. The show isn't good. It's decent for normies. But it breaks the lore and doesn't care about the established themes and story-telling. The show having mid-tier character interaction and story-telling does not excuse how the writers shit on what has already been established. Being an old fan is irrelevant.
@@RedFloyd469 like one piece live action the first season is a BIG risk. I see no lore breaking, let alone anything that story-wise makes it weaker. The second season will have a LOT to shoulder to make up the difference of exposition in the first season. But im watching interviews with the creators and they say they are going through mountains if lore to try and stay consistent. Any inconsistencies are irrelevant at this point. This show is the tip of the spear bringing everything together. Ghouls taking radaway i can handle, green areas in the wasteland is fine. I dont see anything so bad that the lore mistakes drown the story. Its a loose story, like the parts of an AK47 that make it so versatile.
I think there are probably some good writers on the TV show, all the characters are pretty likable and feel like they could fit into the universe, but I really dislike the destruction of the NCR and New Vegas, it seems like they are just going out of their way to keep the world as stagnate as possible. At least let us see the NCR destroy itself from the corruption it was dealing with instead of a literal "XD so random" nuke that had nothing to do with the NCR.
@@russianoverkill3715 To be fair I liked Maximus when I thought he was written to be a sociopath and not just really stupid. Ill admit there is probably biased because he looks and sounds like a friend I served with as well.
@@GrimbopMaximus is your typical evil playthrough in any Bethesda title, especially Bethesda Fallouts. Lucy or whatever her name is, she is the good playthrough. The Ghoul is the coward playthrough that Emil insults you at the end of the game. I haven’t watched the show yet, but watched others who watched it.
@@OXY187 I'd say maximus is closer to being neutral than full-on evil. He just had a dream, got his chance, and took it. He doesn't want to harm people, but will do so if he feels threatened. He's also not exactly smart. An evil character also wouldn't have given back the fusion core. Let's all collectively ignore the discussion he had with lucy in the vault. That was pure cringe.
The Fallout 3 Brotherhood actually being different, and caught between two competing ideals, was one of the few good story choices made by Bethesda. I think they listened to the haters and purists for Fallout 4 because the backtracking of the Brotherhood in that game is so nonsensical and boring. Comparing it to Star Wars, the sequel trilogy flopped precisely because it did not logically evolve from the original trilogy. Likewise, Fallout 4 was not a logical evolution to the same extent that Fallout 3 was. And it really sucks because they were so close to actually having 4 decent factions in Fallout 4, but they just weren't willing to commit to any coherent world building or political discussion. Like, shouldn't the end goal of the Institute be to replace all of humanity with "better" self-replicating synths? Humanity redefined is literally their catchphrase. The Brotherhood and the Minutemen could have been two competing factions who have similar end goals and generally do the right thing, but have differing methods. One is aristocratic and authoritarian while the other is grassroots and egalitarian. It's such an obvious homage to the American Revolution but Bethesda just refuses to do anything interesting with their own ideas!
Having Fallout 4 rephrased as a conversation between the Railroad and the Institute about what it means to become a better person sounds great. Layering that conversation between a Brotherhood/Minutemen conflict sounds even better. There's probably a lot of side stories you could build on that foundation. Man...
@muffintopmd Something very basic they could have done is layout the 4 factions on a quadrant grid with one axis being anti/pro synth and the other axis being authoritarian/egalitarian. Railroad and Institute are both pro synth but egalitarian and authoritarian, respectively. Minutemen and Brotherhood are both anti synth, and egalitarian and authoritarian, respectively. The player character helps their chosen faction take control of different settlements and minor factions and possibly even combine factions together based on their ideologies. A Brotherhood playthrough could have them take control of both the Minutemen AND the Institute since they share values with both factions, but can only destroy the Railroad since they are both egalitarian and pro synth, opposed to the Brotherhood on both axis. Likewise a Minutemen playthrough could take control of both the Brotherhood AND the Railroad but must destroy the Institute. This hypothetical would be pretty basic and is pretty much just a rip off of New Vegas, but it would definitely be doable for Bethesda. It's honestly annoying that they basically tease a New Vegas style faction system but don't actually do anything with it.
I agree. People hated the brotherhood's shifting mentality in 3 for all the wrong reasons. Essentially, the split between west and east-coast brotherhood was a micro-example of what made new vegas great: evolving factions. The brotherhood needed to change from a faction of isolationist hoarders into a society to rival the old world nations. Elder Lyons realized this, even if his goals were a bit too idealistic to function long-term. The game adresses this change in relatively satisfying depth, and even had a splinter group vying to bring the brotherhood back to the old ways. This was handled relatively properly, if a bit too shallow in comparison with new vegas. The backpedalling ABSOLUTELY came because of the fanbase's reaction to this change. The reason for maxson's betrayal of lyons are too vague and oddly loyalist, coming from a boy that was raised within a fully-lyons controlled, fully devoted to nation-building brotherhood. Given his adoration towards sarah and the fatherly affection given him by the elder, his change of heart makes no sense.The shifting mentality of the brotherhood knights after sarah lyons presumably takes over makes no sense either. Why are they all of a sudden traitors, when there was no visible rift between the remaining brotherhood members, all of which stayed with elder lyons after the earlier rift had happened? If anything, maxson's treachery would have caused a civil war to break out. It made sense for lyons to betray east-coast brotherhood, as this mindset of helping the wasteland versus controlling tech had already been brewing in the faction for decades. Lyons breaking the chain came at the right moment. To revert that decision is an idiotic one, story-wise. Nothing the player did in fallout 3 is meaningful, if DC is turned into the enclave anyway, given what we know of maxson suggests he is exactly the same as the enclave, minus the old america patriotism. Nothing mattered. Compare this to how the ncr is a continuation of fallout 1 and 2's themes and choices for improving the wasteland, and helping the burgeoning democracy of california. Plainly, bethesda does not understand and does not care for evolving the setting, and learned the wrong lesson from fan backlash against evolution. It's learning the wrong lesson from the show's success as well. Fallout is officially dead. And Todd and Emil killed it for the normies.
@@RedFloyd469fallout 3 bos is simply stupid because individuals can change and evolve, Not factions. all those members of bos were grown in the bos and had indoctrinated: keep tech out anyone, except us, hands. Having them magically become white knights who die on mass, is stupid. Remember: the chapter in nv prefer dying that changing their ways, Why? The story of the bos is essentially a group that refuse to change and dies out because of that.
I legit assumed you had a couple hundred thousand subs until you thanked your first patron. Keep it up dude. This is some high quality content right here.
You got a lot of stupid people in the comments yelling at you because they think all Fallout is and ever was was wacky woo hoo 50's theme park. You said everything I thought about the show. It's a product created by a bunch of suits that don't understand the message of what they're adapting. But then again, maybe that message has been gone for a long time now. And to anyone using "but Tim Cain liked it!" as an argument: James Cameron LOVED Terminator Genisys.
16:25 this is a big misconception. Sawyer clarified that Yes Man is not duping you. Yes Man becoming more assertive was just intended to mean that he'll only listen to the Courier rather than anyone who approaches him. There's no twist there.
I liked the show, but didn't like the direction they took the lore, and even if I were a regular viewer, I'd think the plot twists with Vault-tec represents a worrying turn story-wise, like the overly-contrived plots of the later seasons of Westworld, which was also directed by Jonathan Nolan.
Vault tec's nukes being controlled by a single overseer who only used it after a bad breakup because of spite makes no sense from any perspective you can take except one that doesn't know what vault tec is, what the enclave was, and what happened in the old games. Aka, the perspective of a bethesda normie. Realistically, maclean would have nuked fake shady sands far earlier if "the existence of all these factions" was the problem.
Mauler has a great video going into great detail breaking down how bad the show is and how it completely collapses upon itself when any critical thinking about any of it’s plot and character and tone consistency and writing is applied to it The show completely lacks what I love about the franchise and goes out of it’s way to completely obliterate the setting, lore and writing established in 1/2/nv turning it into another generic post apocalyptic setting but with a fallout skin at least the Bethesda games happened away from the classics Like my god it’s horrendously bad beyond wow it has the basic post apocalyptic tone (despite fallout always been post post apocalyptic) and the props and costumes are great There is a great line (sorta taken out of context) from the show’s producer “reference, reference reference. No story”
@@andrewmoluf4299 I don't understand where this meme of Mauler "complaining about/ being unable to enjoy everything" came from. He literally recommends 3 other shows in his video criticizing the Fallout show.
choosing to watch the TV show, but deciding to pause it every ten seconds. Print out the dialogue and silently read it yourself for the authentic fallout experience!
This isn’t as complicated as you’re trying to make it out to be. Todd Howard and Emil Pagliarilo made a Fallout game. Then most of the original creators were given the chance to make another Fallout game with an insanely disadvantageous deadline and it was demonstrably better than Fallout 3 in every way. Todd and Emil became jealous that fans want good games instead of just praising them for being given whatever Todd and Emil feel like giving us. The show, at best, is an example of how little those two care about the IP. But the nuking of Shady Sands and portraying of NCR survivors as cultists reveals their pettiness. This was just a cheap shot at the fans that won’t clap like trained seals.
While i’m inclined to agree with you (Todd and friends certainly seem like the worse artists) I don’t want to attribute to jealousy what I can just as easily attribute to corporate lack of creativity. Although I do think Todd is a bit full of himself. Alternate theory: todd howard’s leather jacket is like The Mask and is turning him evil
@@muffintopmd my perspective on it rears its head when you see younger Todd answering questions about F3 and Bethesda's purchase of the IP. It comes across the way it does in the games they've made: They were fans who thought Fallout was cool, and it kind of stops there. Super mutants, bottlecaps, vaults, ghouls, the BoS, etc. are all very cool and a part of Fallout. Also not understanding that Fallout isn't a post-apocalyptic 1950's setting, it's the 90's interpretation of the 50's retro-futurist ideas about 2077, nuked to shit and what comes after that. Not to sound like us fans know better and understand what Fallout is/was/should be really about and they don't know jack as the IP holders but, it definitely *feels* like they maybe had a surface level appreciation of the setting.
@@muffintopmdJealousy is real. They retconned everything the originals introduced. They made their version of power armor to be the superior one too. It’s just hilarious at this point. Obsidian added skeleton in the fridge as a joke, and then they added people who used fridge to take shelter became ghouls. Ghouls needed food and water to survive in the originals, and they destroyed it by saying they don’t need food or water. Then they changed the lore again and created a drug for ghouls to stay sane. What made Ghouls different from zombies was that they were still human, even the Feral ones. Feral ghouls don’t attack you untik you get really close in Necropolis.
Not this conspiracy theory again... Literally how could you possibly think this could ever be true. The nuking of shady sands and presenting a faction (that was never perfect to begin with) as "cultists" reveals their pettiness... My god, have you any idea how ridiculous that is?
Todd didn't even come up with the idea of nuking Shady Sands, the show writers did. In fact Todd didn't even like the idea at first. Your comment makes no sense.
Honestly, I got fallout in 97, I’ve replayed 1 and 2 so many times I’ve lost count, I start a replay every year on my birthday as a little ritual. Fallout 3 and 4 did very little for me, though I think 4 with survival mode and far harbor are the best Bethesda has done with the license, treating 4 as a survival and building game and ignoring the main story as of getting the brotherhood taxi service. That + mods and there’s a salvageable game in there that I’ve put a few hundred hours into the last couple years (I didn’t even touch the game til the pandemic because I’m so skeptical of Bethesda’s fallout efforts). 76, people talked me into trying it saying “oh it’s so much better” and my god it’s everything I hate about MMO games plus incredibly tiny server size so you can’t reliably get on a server with anyone you want to play with…bletch, it’s just grinding, all the good parts of fallout 4 are either gone (camps are a poor replacement for settlements and what they did to VATS is awful) or locked behind endless grindy bullshit All that to say, I’m about as skeptical and grognardy about fallout as possible, and I thought the show was fantastic! It captured the feeling of the games really well and was its own story that is basically the opening act of a new chapter of the franchise. I can’t wait to see what more we find out about the NCR, whether they explain why shady sands moved 200 miles away etc. It also had the added benefit of making my wife a fan. It’s pretty much everything I could’ve asked for out of an adaptation
Considering Bethesda had dick and squat to sell alongside the show I doubt any of that was their idea. They barely think out their own stories and world (starfield) so all of these larger cannon changes were for sure showrunners that found it the best way to compensate with the many endings provided by new vegas
While I see the criticism with the show, from a writing perspective I kind of think it being dumbed down makes sense for the first season of a TV show that is introducing the franchise to a lot of people. It isn’t a multi hour video game about choice and the nuances of humanity in this format, so there’s a lot of ground to cover that can introduce concepts to people who are unaware while also expanding on what is there for people familiar with the setting. For me, I’m going to hold off full judgement of full blown franchise assassination until the second season. They have it set up to where, so long as they hear the criticism that has been given, they could really easily course correct and make the second season feel even more like Fallout 1, 2, and NV. For their sakes, I hope they do. The inclusion of New Vegas is a huge power play that they have to execute damn near perfectly, otherwise a very vocal part of the community is gonna full-on riot
New Vegas is my favorite Fallout game. I started the franchise with 3. Morrowind is my favorite Elder Scrolls game. I expected the show to be the tone and 'reading level' of 3/4, and was pleasantly surprised with what we got. I expect season 2 will roughly amalgamate the tone of New Vegas, and shit all over its lore. I remember Westworld season 2. I hope I'll like season 2 as much as I did 1, but I don't think it's likely
I only have player 3 and New Vegas but I'm familiarized with 1 and 2 and I think the whole shady sands thing is not that big of a deal. Perhabs if anyone did a "NV/OG sort of sequel" they'll do a similar thing,so I don't mind. The show was amazing and confirms that every time the story is not an dumb down "BoS good Enclave Bad" situation you are in the right track.
Upon us finishing the show, my partner who has had mild exposure to Fallout through me asked, "Is this a good way to get people into Fallout?" My answer, after a long pause thinking about the current player numbers; "I am forced to conclude that it was."
The best setting for the show would've been anywhere in the midwest; their vault is centered on apple pie and growing corn, the ghoul is a cowboy, and america's nukes are stored there not california, so where did hank get the nukes?
It's like I want to be a Fallout fan, but other Fallout fans keep telling me not to, the games tell me not to, the f*cking updates ALSO tell me not to. It's like why should I invest my time and money to a studio that doesn't value its own games or audience. How are you gonna release an update that makes Fallout 4 completely unplayable?? F*ck Todd.
This is like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. You're referencing Warlockracy, who himself referenced the OG Fallout Creator, Alchestbreach. Man, that guy deserves more views for his consistency over the years if nothing else. He's the reason some of the New Vegas Modders even got interested in making content, evidenced by the fact they reference his character IN mod. (Sponsored by Goo Goo Bars™.)
I don't hate the show but I also won't defend it's issues. Like yeah it sort of makes sense for the Strip to be destroyed. On the other hand Nolan and the other show creators said they reboot the West Coast because they didn't like that it was rebuilt.
Yeah, 4 minutes in and the time line is wrong . Van Buren was canceled in Dec 2003 and Black Isle was shut down because interplay was FO3 for auction in 3rd Quarter 2004. Interplay canceled the OG Baldurs Gate 3 in 2003 and lost the license to create DnD shortly after but not before having the last released game Black Isle work on be a Baldur's Gate Hack and Slash arpg console exclusive. So I think it was les Bethesda, but more a clear shift in interplay's direction and desperation that got Van Buren canceled not a sale that happened a year later.
Setting the show on the east coast would have solved all the problems. However, it would have also defeated the creators' intent - from an interview with Todd, we know that nuking Shady Sands is what they wanted. The writers fully believe that all of Fallout should be like the east coast, and that any civilisation in the setting is anthetical to the setting. They're wrong. Fallout isn't post-apoc, it's post-post-apoc. Civilisations, however scattered, are at the heart of such a setting. That's what the Interplay games + New Vegas do best. And that's why the New California Republic had to go. It doesn't matter what they represented - they have to go. It doesn't matter if this makes the setting worse - they have to go. It doesn't matter if we do it badly or insultingly - they have to go. And so must everyone else.
12:52 meanwhile Black Isle/Obsidian: Fallout 1: I'm going to find the Water Chip Fallout 2: I'm going to find the G.E.C.K. Fallout New Vegas: I'm goimg to find the Platinum Chip The *REAL* difference between Bethesda and Black Isle/Obsidian is that Bethesda instead of having a really bad McGuffin has a family member to which the protagonist is *EMOTIONALLY* attached. In New Vegas NCR and the Legion can kill each other for what I care. Is the NCR better than the Legion? Sure but they are still not a real democracy, commit horrific war crimes and literally occupy foreign territory. It's a bit like USA vs. Russia. Sure Russia is even worse but I have a really hard time to sympathize with the NCR/USA. It's the *lesser* evil bjt it is still evil. My favorite ending is Yes Man but it is still bad as you don't get to decide anything and Yes Man just weirdly goes into sleep mode for an unknown amount of time and is luterally a lazily written YES MAN who is magically immortal.
so instead of a simple McGuffin that acts as a driving force for the player character to explore the world, you'd rather have the player have emotional attachments and motives placed upon them by the developers? in an RPG?. Do you not realize that this is a game where you make different characters, that are supposed to side with different people based on that characters own moral/beliefs? the goal of the factions are to present a set of ideologies with pros and cons for the PC to decide what is best for them based on how you build them. And NV actually had a really good contextual reason as to why you can't kill Yes Man: his AI is connected to every bit of technology in the strip, so trying to kill him is futile. This is much more interesting as oppose to just having inexplicably immortal NPC's that have no reason why they shouldn't die other than the developers need them to be.
Bethesda's Fallout is a joke. They are inconsistent with lore and tone of the franchise, the world is stagnant and boring, and have been turning it into a shooter with rpg elements when it should be the other way around. If anyone wants to play what a modern Fallout game should be, try Wasteland 3, it ain't perfect but it's more fallout then Fallout 4 and 76.
"inconsistent with lore and tone of the franchise" - Fallout 2. Big time. Far more so than any Bethesda Fallout. Also New Vegas, that is nothing like 1 or 2 either.
@@dommoore6180To what retcons are you referring to in Fallout 2? Please, do tell, because the only one I can think of is when they slightly moved moved Shady sands and Vault 15 a little bit south on the overworld map. New Vegas is actually very in line with the tone of the isometric games, but as for it not being similar to them in gameplay, that's because when Bethesda lent the IP to Obsidian, they **likely** told them that it had to be made using the fallout 3 engine, also, do you know how impossible it would've been to make a game from the ground up in just 18 months??? because that's how long Obsidian was given to work on New Vegas.
If anyone actually cared about the wishes of the actual creator of fallout they wouldn't fuck with anything after the original because there was never even meant to be a sequel.
Ayy bro, just like an idea, but you could've put some gameplay off to this side of you talking and it would've given viewers who are just watching your video something to fixate on. No hate on the porch shot though, nice vibe
Define long time. Long time like since 1999? Or long time like 2015? 😆 Because I've heard people going "yeah, I'm a big fan of Fallout" and then in the next sentence "I only played 4 and 76" xd
Sixteen years. But if someone had been playing since 2015, I'd consider that a long time. After all, a decade devoted to a franchise is notable in its own right.
@@russianoverkill3715 Oh great, the online Fallout police arrived. Are you gonna arrest him because he wasn't introduced to the series by playing the "right Fallout"?
I was forced to watch the show by friends that like to suffer aneurysms from watching horrible things. We came to the conclusion that the show was enjoyable during episode 3, 4 and 5. Effectively when the setting, story and characters take the backseat and it's just random moments of chaos. That's not a compliment to the show, far from it.
Well done! I did a critique video of the show immediately after watching it and I was pilloried. It's nice to see that there's space for critiquing this show now and really assessing the damage it's done to the story of Fallout.
Speaking as a long time fallout fan. The time-line doesn't add up either and I'm pretty mad about that because it drastically changes the political landscape of new vegas. Also what about arroyo. Why do people hate vault dwellers if there literally is a legend of a vault dweller who not only saved his people he founded an entire city a stones throw away from where lucy is. So much potential. WASTED. It's so meh. Wanted to be won over but it's at best meh at worst utterly disrespectful to its most popular title. Feels deliberate to me tbh. I can just see Todd Howard rubbing his greasy hand together and laughing maniacally.
@matty4419 I don't care if anyone criticizes Bethesda. They definitely aren't anywhere near as good at writing dialog or story and their development has gotten too streamlined and as buggy as always. They need a new engine for their games. Starfield is proof of that. And Todd Howard is just a salesman that overpromises and under delivers. Doesn't change that the show is great and the best adaptation of a video game to television or movies I have ever seen and a lot of people agree with me.
As a fallout 1,2,NV schizo I thought the show was great however I never wanted Bethesda on that side of the country I knew they would do wack shit...Shady Sands was doomed to fail even in NV if you talk to certain NCR members it looks bleak and an L at Hoover would be a nail in the coffin. But a nuke? seriously we couldn't have a disease or anything else bro released? had to just nuke shady sands? not even like a just genuine slow fall of a small nation due to corruption? this entire story could've been told in the east coast and almost nothing would've changed BUT the most iconic stuff is from the west so we gotta go Bethesda it up over there NO they're cant be ANY civilizations with ANY progress besides the brotherhood this is the post apocalypse.
What's bugged me the most about the development of Fallout (I played NV for the first time at 14, 14 years ago) is Bethesda's or Todd's specifically, obvious hate for New Vegas' success. Instead of learning from the way Obsidian composed a story and made the wasteland feel alive, they continued in their own way of doing things. That's the biggest disappointment I think
Your pizza analogy fell apart when you had to put F3 after NV in order to make it work. Sorry that you experienced them in that order, but NV wouldn't exist in its beloved form if F3 hadn't set the stage so well.
Over the past few weeks, I have seen very few people say that the fallout show was bad. And even those who said that the show was “alright” they always would follow it up with saying that it’s the best video game adaptation. Those I have seen who didn’t like the show often didn’t like it for either lore reasons or they didn’t like it because they hired a minority to play a very minor role. Btw I think your video frames the fallout show as Bethesda misunderstanding west coast fallout, but you fail to mention that it’s just the first season of multiple, you imply that the fallout show tells the audience that the NCR is totally destroyed due to the fall of shady sands, even though the show hasn’t even gotten the chance to explain why the NCR has either been destroyed or fragmented
Change without explanation is not really known for being well received so Im not sure why its so shocking that some fans are upset right now. I dont think the show is bad but it has clearly diverged from the original tone of the series. Fallout used to be a hamburger but now theyve gone and added cheese. Some people like cheese, but other people find it cheesy haha.
The show sucks even if you don’t associate it with fallout the plot is all over the place, why did Hank not know the other vault was completely dead. If Moldaver is such a great person why did she lead a band of raiders to a vault when she is supposedly the “good guy”? How did Hank get a nuke? Why are the corporations bent on destroying the world to earn maximum profit, if you want money and the things money can buy then why destroy all of it? Just to name some examples
@@TheKingoftheAWESOME 1. Idk what you mean by Hank not know vault was dead, I’m assuming you mean vault 32, which Hank did know about since he is part of vault tec 2. The show never attempts to make moldaver a good guy, moldaver kills a bunch of innocent people at the beginning of the show, and by the end of the season we learn more about moldaver and we learn why they did what they did, idk why you thought the show wanted you to think moldaver was a good guy, no faction or character being good and evil is the core of fallout 3. We don’t know how Hank got a nuke, we might find out in another season, Hank is clearly shown to be a very competent and dangerous man, the show is leaving some things ambiguous before the next season, ambiguity doesn’t mean bad 4. The corporations never said that they want money, I honestly wonder if you have actually seen the show or not, that scene with the corporations left a lot of things ambiguous, the entire meeting they were talking about experiments, you can’t make money off experimenting people, so why would you assume they wanted to end the world for money?
I grew up on Fallout 1&2, at this point the lore is so violently inconsistent in presentation and just general facts that I genuinely can’t believe some people are really that upset about the inconsistencies in a Hollywood TV show, I’m fucking shocked this wasn’t just a cash grab but actually feels like a good story. Imo this is that Bethesda action movie plot finally coming to an actually engaging story, the elements it took from the story of 3&4 not only are used better but somewhat fit in with established lore of the OG games and even seemingly kinda acknowledges tactics lore maybe? Tone wise id say this is closest to Fallout 1 which is my personal favorite for the series, fuckin Todd Howard took the already mediocre tone of FO2 then stretched and morphed it into a stink pile of horse shit with Fallout 3. New Vegas just made its own tone and Fallout 4 feels like it’s wearing Fallout black face tone wise but it’s gameplay is probably the best Bethesda ever made so fuck it. Fallout TV feels mostly like that dark realistic post apocalypse comedy with only a bit of Bethesda era cringe. It’s like a solid 7.5/10 which is better than all the other Bethesda made fallouts. Fuck Fallout 3, even Starfield is better than that 4/10 crock of shit
If it's a good story, what is Moldaver's plan? You should know by the end of the show, since it was only greenlit for one season at first. Did she PLAN on just demonstrating to Vault-Tec that she could light up another city in order to get her ass nuked again? She knew the Brotherhood and Enclave would be after her, too, so why do that? Now, you could just chalk that up to more shitty committee writing, but this time there really is a plot. The show's writers told everyone what it was before the show even aired. The canon theme of Fallout is now "haves vs have-nots". They crammed that theme in everywhere they could, regardless of whether or not it made sense. I mean, Vault-Tec nuking the world for profit, in order to create a society where they control everything, is just impossibly retarded for any company. They even say competition creates war, and then bring along their own competition. And the investors BOUGHT that. They're just clownishly evil and stupid capitalists. They have to be, because "haves vs have-nots" is Marxist class warfare garbage, and the focal point of the larger world plot is Moldaver, the Communist heroine. Naturally, she's very diverse, because "Woke" is actually Intersectional Neo-Marxism. Same revolution to overthrow society, same dumb ideas, larger proletariat to make sure the revolution occurs THIS time. Woke activists have infiltrated all sorts of media by making sure they get preferential treatment whilst excoriating others, which is why so much our media turns to shit. Their directive is not to make good media, it's to subvert institutions in order to create propaganda. Here's the really clever part, though. Moldaver is written as poorly as the Woke write any character, and blaming the war on Vault-Tec LOOKS really dumb because it would be in normal world. But in reality, the sole purpose of that HUGE writing change was to ensure that the NCR would be destroyed so it can be re-made into a Woke version at any point, be it a game or more seasons. She dies a martyr, giving away free electricity with no fucking plan, and getting her people killed, JUST to illustrate how bad everyone else is. That way, the NCR that Fallout's largest group of adherents adore will be brought into the Woke reconstruction of it, and hail it as a great story, especially when it holds off the bad guys. Lucy will probably be the scion for that. Maybe something else will happen and Moldaver has some other way of being immortal, but the die is already cast. It was from the moment the writers changed Fallout's theme and crammed this class warfare bullshit into it. The Brotherhood already got that treatment, too, and it will also change because it is ridiculously stupid and evil now. The Vault Dwellers are fucked, as are any groups like the Minutemen, because Woke cannot leave the existing society in place. It's against Communist doctrine. Thus, regardless of the quality, or lack of it, in previous games, the entire story just turned to shit right in front of everyone's faces. It's already subverted. Of course, the older players see what happened to the lore, and the vast majority of them are trying to make sense of it. They've taken this tack that Todd must be behind this out of spite for Obsidian. But who do we know that is spiteful in everything they do, all the time, if not the Woke? Indeed, Obsidian ENDORSED this show, so how do they explain that? They try, but the fact of the matter is that Fallout has always been "Progressive", which just means "Progressing farther left." The Progressives of today are very similar to the Woke, so it doesn't take much to nudge them over. We are looking at the results of THAT story, and Fallout will fall just like so many other institutions have, with people trying to figure out what the fuck was really going on because they don't understand Leftist ideology, and never learned.
@@arcdecibel9986 bro this is a fuckin schizo post, the show never did any "haves vs have nots" themes that the entire fucking series hasn't had. Get laid and stop freaking the fuck out over a show I said was a fuckin 7.5/10 this show is still better than Fallout 3 or 4's story because Moldaver being kinda stupid is allot better than the antagonists plans in either of those games. Get laid, drink some water, stop being a fuckin crazy person Edit: typo
Yeah, but Troika - the geniuses behind some of the greatest masterpieces in CRPG history were already working on FO3 at the time. A game that would blow our minds. Instead we got FO3 for kids from Bethesda. Yikes. There are concept videos on YT, if anyone's interested.
look, the entire BGS (ex) fanbase is living in this weird state of perpetual adolescence. You do realize the entire franchise, including the first games are HORRIBLY written, right? from a sociological point of view, fallout is probably the dumbest, simplest schmeer made for developmentally stunted kids.
fallout fans just blindly believe that descendants of descendants of survivors ("raiders") would be so stupid that they would hang rotting bodies from the ceiling, inside a closed and insulated space that THEY SLEEP IN. that culture would not survive a SINGLE generation. google typhus, you absolutely helpless imbecile.
also, even an uneducated dummy like me know about the value of passing down a written account of recorded knowledge. books. not one schmuck in the fallout universe cares about any other literature than grognak.
people trade in bottlecaps. instead of grams of salt for example, which would make so much more sense, and the use of such a currency would be something the people could learn about from all the history books that are completely intact in multiple libraries in every city i've seen in the fallout universe. you know, salt, the FOOD PRESERVATIVE. but of course they don't need that, bc they can just loot cram. that would work.
fallout fans, and every single writer that ever worked on ANY of the titles are so dumb its depressing. and the dumbest? you. the person analyzing fallout at an adult age, and your brain just never picked up on any of this. because all fallout fans are high school dropouts.
Tim Cain is the definition of overrated. fallout SUCKS
hey pal, did you just blow in from stupid town?
it's him officer, the person that gets angry when people enjoy things that they like
r*dditor ahh
Jesus fucking christ, did Tim Cain and Todd Howard rape & kill your parents or something? This is probably the most angry ass comment I've ever seen on anything fallout related
Egads, He got pinned.
Bethesda calling Boneyard Los Angeles again says it all
Because everyone would just call it the boneyard. You do realize it's a wasteland right? People wouldn't have the same names for things all the time. Especially the ghoul he would still call it LA since that's what he remembers it as.
@@michaelostergren3516 True, (nerd aneurysm incoming) but when there's no mention of any prior/current settlement in L.A. as a reference or nothing, it's just another dead city with a functioning power grid somehow?
It just makes it come across as if Bethesda couldn't care less about previous lore seeing as it's mentioned as a growing place in NV 10 years before the show takes place & how they already moved Shady sands location for plot convenience.
Might come across as whining but if you're writing a show based on a location that's already been written for you the least you could do is watch a recap instead of just wiping the slate
Fair 2 say @@bearlogg7974
@@bearlogg7974clearly to some, (Me) Bethesda does not give a damn. Imo
@bearlogg7974 I mean.. in the game it's not exactly clear where it is either. The map from fallout 1 isn't exactly accurate. But I get what you mean. I think Bethesda and the director really wanted to focus on the mystery of vault tech and why they did the experiments in the first place. So they condensed alot of things to make it work. But at the same time we have no idea how much time passes in between cuts. It could be days or weeks of time they walked for. They cut that kinda stuff out of shows for brevity. Plus in the games themselves distances are significantly shortened, like Boston is so much bigger in real life but it's just a quick 10 minute run in game. It really feels like they honed in on the game logic. I.E Stimpacks
You owe it to yourself to play Fallout 1 and 2 if you haven't.
1000 percent agree.
You take a sip from your trusty vault 13 canteen
Players complaining about 4's legendary enemy bullet sponges simply haven't met Keeng Ra'at on a non-melee build
Why can’t I play them on series x where is my port 😂
I just stick with 1,2 tactics and 3,new vegas (I call new new vegas fallout 3, new vegas)
The problem is that the most marketable aspects of fallout are its post apocalyptic scavenging, as well as the BOS and the enclave. So it behooves Todd and Emil to keep the world as stagnant as possible. They’ll probably keep doing this until the money dries up, so basically never.
Yeah even playing fallout new Vegas
I enjoy and spend my time wandering around blasting raiders and collecting stuff to sell
But it’s that world building, characters and fantastic writing that’s keeps me engaged and coming back and just thinking about the game and the setting as a whole
Like I look at fallout 4 and gameplay wise and mod wise well that’s literally just that but better with less crashing but then I try it and get immediately bored with the sheer lack of narrative substance that game has I’m having moments fun but it’s like messing around in gmod theres no meat too it.
Like a fallout game can have that iconography and that general expected gameplay loop but it doesn’t bar it from actually being a fallout game narratively and thematically but Bethesda in their post Emil era can’t write to save themselves so it’s as you said stuck being a now a franchise that is purely just caps and scrap post apocalypse rather than its core identity of a post post apocalypse world where human factions carve out their identity and existence in the fallout of the ideas that lead to a post nuclear world
its so funny tho because the post-apocalyptic scavenging they choose to depict is picking up six hundred cups. in new vegas you go looking for superweapons
They could create more marketable aspects of the franchise if they had talent. Think about how memorable the Legion is, or House is with the Securitrons, for example. They have no confidence in themselves and no desire to take risks.
@@CrizzyEyes thats the most frustrating thing. every black isle/obby fallout game introduces new things and, because they write well, people love them. it makes sense since fallout comes out of tabletop games, its built for ideas generation. its doubly frustrating when you consider the cool stuff bethsoft is capable of, i love mirelurks and those little liberator robots from 76
@@basedsneedclave175the problem with bethesda is that they they treat fallout the same way with elder scrolls making you literally play skyrim but with guns.
Todd didn't want us to have good stories, he wants Fallout 4-2 Electric Boogaloo.
If you like fallout 4 you probably like the show.
I Had the same feelings towards the show as I did fallout 4.
It felt like both were dumbed down for the average consumer to maximize profits.
Product-market fit. Show is aimed at the same people that looter shooter for casuals was aimed at. And it was a perfect fit - they're ready to jump at your throat if you dislike the product they consume.
The show is for people whose entire understanding of the franchise is
Woah I know that fallout thing seeing on tv show makes me happy
Yeah it's a perfect adaptation of Bethesda fallout. But that's never going to be good.
I prefer NV to 3 or 4, and I really liked the show. If season 2 manages to not shit all over the tone of NV, I'll forgive whatever retcons it makes along the way. Like before season 1 dropped, my hopes are not high
@@Zoroasterisk Never forget. Never forgive.
Emil has never been in on the joke
Emil *is* the joke
A very bad joke at that.
The bonus thing is misunderstood. Chris Avellone has come out multiple times (I believe Josh Sawyer has as well) and said that it was a good-will thing Bethesda offered above-and-beyond the already agreed upon contract, and Obsidian themselves don't blame Bethesda. It was their fault for not meeting the mark and being overly ambitious in their project scope. I say this as a West Coast purist.
Funny thing is all media that gave NV low grade no longer exist, they were cucked out of money by fake outlets that did not stood times judgement
Yea people really like to exagerrate this rivalry between bethesda and obsidian, usually to make bethesda and todd howard out to be the bad guy, when really it's a false dichotomy to begin with. The two companies don't even hate eachother, the devs do not have bad blood with eachother, they would not have made new vegas in the first place if any of that were true. It's just people projecting their own hate onto made up scenarios
@@boxylemons7961i agree, but bethesda still bad tho mainly cuz of Emil
When he refers to the bonus thing, wasn't he referring to Tim Cain being gyped out of a bonus by interplay, which is what caused him (partially) to leave? He has said as much in his own videos
Then you’d know it as a west coast purist that Bethesda bribed game reviewers at the time to specifically decrease the Metascore, knowing they were already lucky the console version was horrendous. Check out Chris Avellone’s recent tweets :) unlike Josh, Chris is not bound by corporate hierarchy.
This big issue with fallout 3 purified water Is... Well it's the only water people can safely drink and farm with. The entire wasteland popoulation would at least try to move and Settle around that River for obvious reasons. Farming and economical traffics would go up exponencially. The DC zone would turn into a Power house from wich the Brotherhood of steel would forge a new nation... This could create the bases of the Brotherhood waging war against the institute and so on. But no. No real ints and reasons are given for that.
Meanwhile the NCR Is in desperate Need of water and Power for his struggling nation. They are on the brink of Mass starvation. Controlling (patrolling) the mojave and Hoover dam makes Absolute sense.
Honestly they could work their way east through each season and get to that
you can also sabotage the water and keep it bad in the ending, so the water being purified is as canon as it not being purified
We don't really know what Capital Wasteland is like in 2296. Also I think the NCR food/water issue was alluded to be resolved in the show since people were just farming locally.
Yeah the brotherhood could have effectively had the same presence in the commonwealth without destroying the capitol wasteland, having the east coast chapter actually overshadow it's west coast counterparts as a proper nation was one of the few interesting ideas Bethesda put on the table and then they backpedaled. I think I wouldn't mind the retcons as much if Bethesda had a more follow through on their own ideas.
@@corypowercat7277 It's not 2296 we are talking about. It's fallout 4's setting, which I believe is 2287.
Also, we do know what happened. DC became an authoritarian state under the control of elder maxson. He is worshipped as a god there. Likely because the brotherhood control the water supply and are the only viable source of military protection, even if it is put to bad use.
Fallout since 76 has just been fully Elder-Scrolls-Ified. The setting is now an inconsistent mess without anything that really matters, which is extremely stupid when the writing of the world was the main appeal in the first place.
Now Fallout is just an ambiguous concept, a backdrop for whatever Todd and Emil decide is cool in the moment without any respect to any kind of limitations or rules. It's just a less jokey 50s borderlands now.
It's been this way since fallout 3 when they brought back caps for no reason. You just never realized.
Funny it's more successful now than It's ever been😅 I guess have fun hatin the rest of us will just have fun with fallout.
@@goblin3810 funny how successful Transformers movies are, yet they don't appear in the imdb top 250. Newer Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles aren't successfull because of the shit writing and inconsistencies, but despite it.
@@goblin3810 are these "rest of us" here in the comment section with us?
@@goblin3810 Nah, you'll have fun with your version of Fallout. The children's version.
I always see people harp on NV lovers for complaining about the Bethesda fallouts for "thinking they know better" or something but the tonal difference between them is night and day. Bethesda so obviously rely more on the setting and iconography of the series without really wanting to hit any of the original themes about macro management of communities. The commitment to depowering the player and making them figure out the setting for themselves is exactly what captivated many fans, A game that is actually about something. There is a distinct and measurable line between fans who enjoyed deeply engaging with the dynamics of the fallout world and people who see it as an apocalypse flavored sandbox, like how many skyrim and fallout videos do you see running 500+ mods to change the game inside out and they are still only running around killing stuff with ENBs and anime hair.
The show IS fine. Writing is a bit weird but all the essence of fallout is there. Its the raw gall to tamper with New Vegas when everything about that game runs parallel to what their mainline games do. Its not ruined, but changing so much is such an unnecessary tantrum like thing to do. If they were worried about the storyline of new vegas just set it in the same time and have it happen in the background of the story they want to tell. But they cant because they dont know how. Bethesda games are always always doomed to create some underdeveloped nonsense focus for a story that is only important because they force it to be.
Problem with this is NV is nothing like Fallout 1, tonally, stylistically or mechanically. Fallout 2 is nothing like 1 either and in fact 2 is far sillier, far more tonally inconsistent and far dumber than anything Bethesda has done with the franchise (I say that as someone who likes 2 the best as well).
Fallout 3 is tonally and narratively closer to 1 than any other title in the series is. People can rightly point out logic holes (although as if there aren't mountains of those in NV or FO2) or personally dislike elements of it, but this idea that there's some predefined 'classic Fallout' that 2 and NV are examples of, is utterly ridiculous. Beyond some surface level visual elements NV and FO2 are nothing like the original at all, they're not even that much like each other.
The writing in FO2 is inconsistent as all hell and the writing in NV has it's peaks and valleys too. All fans like yourself are doing is creating and maintaining a sense of elitism. If NV and 2 actually were more like 1 than the bethesda titles are then you'd have some sort of an argument but they aren't like 1 and they aren't even like each other *and* the closest title to the original by far is a bethesda title. People who like FO3 or even 4 may well like them for their writing, roleplaying, world or themes. Suggesting that they only like Fallout for the "sandbox" but people who agree with you like it for "deeply engaging with the dynamics of the world" is as overtly pretentious as it gets. Btw, FO3 is also thematically closer to 1 than the rest of the series is and certainly 2 and NV are worlds apart from the core themes of 1. Those core themes also weren't about macro managing communities. Shows how much you know I guess.
Your second paragraph also makes no sense whatsoever. Bethesda didn't make the show, didn't write it, didn't come up with the idea to tie it into NV, didn't come up with the idea to use shady sands. None of that has anything to do with bethesda or their style at all. And just like how NV is nothing like 2 and neither of those are anything like 1, Fallout 4 is nothing like 3. So how much of a predefined style does Bethesda even have when it comes to Fallout?
I lose brain cells reading comments like yours, I hate to be rude but I honestly do. You're just being a pretentious elitist nerd. Try relaxing, liking what you like, disliking what you dislike, but just without being all elitist about it. It isn't hard to do. You don't need to like Fallout 3, or 4 or whatever. You also don't need to do all this.
@@dommoore6180I couldnt have said it any better myself. This comment should be required reading for every fallout fan. Ive been saying these points for years(lifelong Fallout fan) but ppl dont wanna listen. I think it stems from the fact that a majority of the fans of the series now come post bethesda. And most of them havent even played the originals to completion. They mostly watch lore videos and read the wiki. Which is fine im not judging. The older ones can be very off putting because of the age and sheer difference of gameplay. So they play 3,NV, and 4 and then compare them to the older titles that most of them havent actually played and say "look look NV is more true to the originals(mainly Fallout 2)" which is only true of the setting being on the west coast and incorporating factions from there. But they couldnt be more different in so many ways. Also people shit on bethesda but dont actually realize that without them, we wouldnt even have new fallouts to play at all. Most of the current fan base wasnt around when the franchise was dead. I remember those days. Most of us at the time were resigned to the fact that we werent gonna get any new fallouts after VB was killed. The series was DEAD. I cant even begin to express the joy i felt when Fallout 3 was announced and even more still when i played it for the first time. But what do i know im just dude getting older by the day reminiscing.
@@MrSpotface Its always New Vegas fans acting like that game is the 2nd coming of christ (it isn't). They never played the original two games. They shit on Fallout 3 even though that game set the groundwork for New Vegas to even be a thing (the 3D engine).
Fallout, as any piece of art in modern media, has become a big franchise. An IP. It has been commodified to hell and adapted for mass production under the grasp of a team of executives that don't really care all that much about the themes, the personality, the identity, and the art that went into it originally. As long as it sells, it just works.
Happened with Star Wars.
Happened with Halo.
And it Happened with Fallout.
The show is nice. I'm happy the actors aren't being attacked for it. But it isn't the Fallout I fell in love with, and It wasn't the goal of Todd, or Nolan, or anyone in the top of the production to make it so.
Corporations destroy art and the things we love for the sake of profit and industry. Hold on tight to the stories you love, and don't let any big company with a fancy logo behind it tell you how to engage with these stories crafted by people like you and me.
And as long as the communities around these pieces of art exist to preserve their history, we can always go back to watch A New Hope, play Halo CE, or play Fallout 1.
Me when my media criticizing capitalism gets fucked by capitalism
It also critiques how ostensibly liberal democracies can very easily give rise to far right, militaristic societies that expand in an imperialistic fashion. Then Bethesda makes the BOS into just that with not much awareness imo.
Why do all the turbo analyst heads keep saying it’s a “good show”? We HAVE good shows. We have Avatar, Breaking Bad, Star Trek. We have BABY SHOWS that are capable of telling a real story
Lmao terrible take …fallout 1 doesn’t even crack top 2 entries in the series 😂
@@gaulicwarlord gotta love how honestly minor the brotherhood are in older games with the point being that seclusive cosplaying as knights in a secured functioning vault doesnt have much honour, when all you want as the player is some help with a vault water chip to save everyone inside, and they still try to get yourself killed. Wow these people should definitely be the main characters.
its annoying because as much as people harp on about fallout 3's "apocalyptic environment", they don't realize (likely due to them not playing the first games) that its a really good example of Bethesda's inability to effectively worldbuild. in a world in which 80 yrs after the bombs fell, humanity one the west coast has already developed small settlements, trade, agriculture, etc. and roughly 80 yrs after, have developing nation states with massive infastructure, we have F3, in which a large plot point of the main story involves a water crisis.... in D.C. of all places. Not to mention the fact that this so called crisis isn't present in the game outside of the main quest in any significant way except for some random hobo outside of megaton. A setting where we see no form of sustainable agriculture or livestock farming. We're made to believe that for 200 years, these people have been surviving off of scavenging and molerat meat? Where raiders and super mutants (which their existence in the east coast is a lazy contrivance in it of itself) 10x the actual civilian population.
Things like this combined with the whole existence of places like megaton and tennpenny tower really paint a picature of bethesdas design philosophy: I imagine they set up a dev meeting, in which ppl brainstorm random ideas for a quest, then have any designer pick out an idea from a jar and are just told to go crazy, without any consideration for the setting, or even other questlines. It's the same reason we have dragon breaks in TES.
The D.C. setting could've been soo much more realized. Imagine having multiple factions, each in control of prominent pieces of DC infastructure, roads, levees, the metro system, etc. Proper explainations as to how locations interact with each other and how you can affect these ineractions. Instead we have a bunch of self contained "wacky" stories that don't really inform the setting at all, and recycled elements of the previous games. While the world design is neat, it doesnt feel real, same as the show. That a big part of the premise of fallout was to explore the ethics of post nuclear america, and with that, having really good worldbuiling is a necessary part of exploring that premise.
I think those Tim Cain quotes aren't contradictory if you understand the first one to mean,
"I'm more interested in creating an interesting worldspace to explore, I'm not here to reinvent the wheel of what a plasma gun is."
Because then that would explain why the combat is so exciting and meaningfully gratuitous.
It's not about the rifle being some Halo space age design. It's about having a simple sprite that does a shit ton of damage while you're crawling through the world he helped invent.
What a lovely porch you've got there
I thought the show was alright, but I am also 32, and Fallout 3 came out in Highschool.
*tried doing F2 but couldn't get into it like the older games I enjoy*
Same. Makes me feel so old now.
It’s less about the narrative and captivating dialogue nowadays and more about the aesthetic, it’s that moment where you can point at the TV and go look a stimpak and the show nailed that aesthetic but it forget the reasons for that aesthetic mainly in the lore which has become increasingly inconsistent after fallout 4 but hey we still Have the pip boy with his iconic thumbs up!
Cool but for example why do the ghouls now need to take Chems to stay as regular ghouls and not turn feral? Why was timeline of the NCR retconned? Hey don’t worry we’ve got highly detailed vault suits, doesn’t the show look good!
To quote dick the birthday boy “how does it feel to see all your favourite franchises go down in flames?” Maybe it doesn’t matter maybe it just works?
How was the NCR retconned
1. The NCR was not ‘retconned’ whatsoever. I’m a New Vegas fanboy myself and I was really disappointed with the route they decided to take the NCR’s fate, but that’s completely different from retconning. I really wish you people would stop using that word.
2. Actual fans of the originals who don’t have nostalgia glasses on, would recognize that the lore has literally been inconsistent since the beginning, from Fallout 1 to 2 there were some massive lore changes and additions. This did not all start with Fallout 4 lol.
Inconsistent is fine if it’s still good. The plot and world building of the show is shit. It’s literally just retro-future mad max
@@earhearthush-up5549They said it's capital was destroyed in 2277, despite it still clearly existing in New Vegas. Before you go saying the chalkboard is unclear. That is just a lame excuse. If the Nuke was suppose to represent something else. Why not mention it. Also it isn't just that the NCR Capital was nuked. It is as if it never existed. This whole nation. Made up of various cities. A whole civilization is just gone within 2 decades. The nuking of Shady Sands was just a convenient and sloppy way to get rid of a civilized wasteland. They wanted the wild untamed wasteland seen in Fallout 1. Instead of setting the show literally anywhere else, or any other time they just pretend as if the NCR never existed and claim somehow one nuke wiped it all out. I saw the same thing happen with the New Republic in The Force Awakens. They wanted to go back to Empire vs Rebels so they blow up the New Republics home system and act like it never existed to begin with. Both the Fallout show and TFA act as if history and progression aren't a thing and keep things static.
A few inconsistencies here and there aren't an issue, but this one is pretry huge and has massive ramifications for the story and lore of Fallout going forward. Just because a past story had an inconsistency does not excuse future inconsistencies.
@@kyleegan2830 Isn't that literally what you'd describe the first fallout game?
First off, fantastic format for video and conversation bro, and a great topic to discuss.
You should really, REALLY sit down to play Fallout 1 and 2 one of these days my friend. They have FANTASTIC writing, and a huge variety of multilayered quests. Some of the most memorable villians in all of the franchise as well, with tons of ways to replay.
God is it pleasant to see a video that isn't riddled by jump cuts and impatient editing. Thank you.
I think it is a good show and I think it does a good job of adapting the feeling of playing FO3 and 4. I agree, if it was set in the East Coast I could just ignore it from the canon like I do the BGS titles (FO76 has absolutely no respect for any lore).
The issue is setting it in the West Coast and just reverting it to a lawless wasteland like 3 and 4. Even FO1 was more civilized that the hellhole the show is, and that game takes place 135 years before the show. I just can't buy that the nuking of Shady Sands caused the complete collapse of the NCR, or that the BoS is this huge organization after being repeatedly kicked from California by the Enclave and the NCR, or that the Enclave still operates in California despite being destroyed by the Chosen One and later the NCR. Fallout 1, 2 and NV spent 120 years crafting the story of a world rebuilding and the conflicts between different ways of doing it, and Bethesda took 15 years to undo all that and reset the wasteland to a post-apocalyptic setting.
The aesthetic is excellent, some of details show a great care by the creators, but the conflict between groups of people that is present in the West Coast games was replaced by the personal stories of 3 individuals that crossed paths at different points, like if three Fallout 3 players had their own stories and sometimes meet one of the other players doing their things. The factions don't matter, the towns don't matter (hell, the Ghoul killed like half a town in his introduction, if this happened on a regular basis how does people still live here?), the ideologies don't matter.
I want to say something for this last point, because I think there is one story that is great and it's the pre-war flashbacks. The criticisms to mccarthyism, war profiteering and money's influence in politics is exactly what Fallout was trying to say. It's a shame they found no way to transfer those topics to the current time, all of that stayed in the past. New Vegas managed to incorporate all those elements in their story though, and that's what gives weight to the game, it says something. You're not just a wanderer that goes from one isolated town to another isolated town, fighting monsters on the way. The Mojave feels like a world that existed before you, and in some way would still function if you do nothing, because it shows realistic people with realistic motivations and actions.
I agree with you. I do however really take issue with the idea that Vault tec and house agreed to nuke America for blah blah cooperate control something something. This concept seems at odds with the narrative and diminishes House's stature. As a technocrat, he prides himself on being more capable and forward-thinking than other factions, having predicted and prepared for nuclear war, safeguarding a significant part of Vegas. This narrative undermines his unique claim to leadership."
@@robsquare2622 I think House is a fraud. And I wouldn't be surprised that he "predicted" the war by being told by Vault-Tec that the war was going to happen and then saying that he predicted it.
However, I don't think that scene really retcons House, as he could have predicted the war before this meeting, and he is the only one shown not to be on board with the plan of starting the war.
I wouldn't trust anything House says though. He is New Vegas' Elon Musk, and Elon Musk was shown to be a charlatan that doesn't know anything about anything. House could be just stealing credit from his employees. He totally controls the narrative, after all. Every detail from House's official story comes directly from his dialogue or the terminals at his own companies.
@@robsquare2622 FWIW House was the most skeptical at that meeting. Vault-Tec may have intended to decide the date the bomb's fell but they didn't control the Chinese nukes and the fact that a high ranking Vault-Tec exec's daughter was helping her dad at a kids b-day party on drop day makes me think Vault-Tec was caught on their back foot. In fact that would be a great explanation for why House's "calculations" were a day off. As for the timeline issues just kick the events of FNV back 10 years to 2071, then everything lines up well and it matters little if the events between FO2 and FNV take place over 30 or 40 years.
@@robsquare2622 They should have explain their motivations better, from my understanding it's about "elites" ideology that there is too many peoples on earth, too many peoples not enough ressources -> wars; so to end wars you have to "reset". In the show this complex thinking is very suggestive.
One thing I never understood was why do people believe believe the NCR collapsed? All that says on the chalkboard was Shady Sands fell, not the NCR. Shady Sands wasn't even the capital anymore according to the billboard. Even Bethesda has outright stated the NCR is very much still alive elsewhere. The NCR at the observatory were pretty much just a small group of soldiers sent there with Moldaver for her mission to retrieve Cold Fusion Tech. Also, the westcoast BoS was pretty much just a remnant trying to rebuild with new Aspirants as depicted on the show. The Brotherhood Knights and Paladins with power armor that came on the airship were obviously from the east coast. You can tell because the Aspirants act like they never seen an airship before nor have they ever seen T60 power armor. So pretty obvious when the airship arrived they're not part of that Brotherhood chapter.
Pretty good video, the only thing is that I wouldnt say Fallout 1's quests were quite so basic. Junktown and even the main quests see more complex choices than what you see in 2, 3, and 4. I would agree that NV was the peak of this idea tho.
bro you've perfectly encapsulated my thoughts on the franchise. RIP Shady Sands
Thank you for articulating most of my criticisms with the show. I disagree on only one point, which is that the show's visuals suck too. Why is every villager in the first town where the protagonists show up together wearing whatever scrap they happened to find? There's a dude literally wwearing wicker baskets for clothes. Another wears pots and pans. Thats just an idiot's idea of what a wasteland would be. In fallout 1 and 2 people wore clothes, simple clothes. Their towns made sense and were ordered like any civilization that was focused on survival would do.
I played the games starting back in 1998. I wasnt happy about the first person switch, but getting used to that change made it so i absolutely love the show. For me its all about social commentary and criticism of hierarchies. It still upholds that legacy and im glad the show was so good
But that's the point. The show isn't good. It's decent for normies. But it breaks the lore and doesn't care about the established themes and story-telling. The show having mid-tier character interaction and story-telling does not excuse how the writers shit on what has already been established. Being an old fan is irrelevant.
@@RedFloyd469 like one piece live action the first season is a BIG risk. I see no lore breaking, let alone anything that story-wise makes it weaker. The second season will have a LOT to shoulder to make up the difference of exposition in the first season. But im watching interviews with the creators and they say they are going through mountains if lore to try and stay consistent. Any inconsistencies are irrelevant at this point. This show is the tip of the spear bringing everything together. Ghouls taking radaway i can handle, green areas in the wasteland is fine. I dont see anything so bad that the lore mistakes drown the story. Its a loose story, like the parts of an AK47 that make it so versatile.
Fallout is the new Star Wars
I think there are probably some good writers on the TV show, all the characters are pretty likable and feel like they could fit into the universe, but I really dislike the destruction of the NCR and New Vegas, it seems like they are just going out of their way to keep the world as stagnate as possible. At least let us see the NCR destroy itself from the corruption it was dealing with instead of a literal "XD so random" nuke that had nothing to do with the NCR.
No way, bro called Maximus likable💀
@@russianoverkill3715 To be fair I liked Maximus when I thought he was written to be a sociopath and not just really stupid. Ill admit there is probably biased because he looks and sounds like a friend I served with as well.
@@GrimbopMaximus is your typical evil playthrough in any Bethesda title, especially Bethesda Fallouts. Lucy or whatever her name is, she is the good playthrough. The Ghoul is the coward playthrough that Emil insults you at the end of the game. I haven’t watched the show yet, but watched others who watched it.
@OXY187 all the character except the ghoul hae low int
@@OXY187 I'd say maximus is closer to being neutral than full-on evil. He just had a dream, got his chance, and took it. He doesn't want to harm people, but will do so if he feels threatened. He's also not exactly smart. An evil character also wouldn't have given back the fusion core.
Let's all collectively ignore the discussion he had with lucy in the vault. That was pure cringe.
Enclave Emily has done a great 3-hour review, and Creetosis is going episode by episode. Have fun.
God that porch looks so cozy.
Peak comfy to rant about nerdshit.
The Fallout 3 Brotherhood actually being different, and caught between two competing ideals, was one of the few good story choices made by Bethesda. I think they listened to the haters and purists for Fallout 4 because the backtracking of the Brotherhood in that game is so nonsensical and boring.
Comparing it to Star Wars, the sequel trilogy flopped precisely because it did not logically evolve from the original trilogy. Likewise, Fallout 4 was not a logical evolution to the same extent that Fallout 3 was.
And it really sucks because they were so close to actually having 4 decent factions in Fallout 4, but they just weren't willing to commit to any coherent world building or political discussion. Like, shouldn't the end goal of the Institute be to replace all of humanity with "better" self-replicating synths? Humanity redefined is literally their catchphrase.
The Brotherhood and the Minutemen could have been two competing factions who have similar end goals and generally do the right thing, but have differing methods. One is aristocratic and authoritarian while the other is grassroots and egalitarian. It's such an obvious homage to the American Revolution but Bethesda just refuses to do anything interesting with their own ideas!
Having Fallout 4 rephrased as a conversation between the Railroad and the Institute about what it means to become a better person sounds great. Layering that conversation between a Brotherhood/Minutemen conflict sounds even better. There's probably a lot of side stories you could build on that foundation. Man...
@muffintopmd Something very basic they could have done is layout the 4 factions on a quadrant grid with one axis being anti/pro synth and the other axis being authoritarian/egalitarian. Railroad and Institute are both pro synth but egalitarian and authoritarian, respectively. Minutemen and Brotherhood are both anti synth, and egalitarian and authoritarian, respectively.
The player character helps their chosen faction take control of different settlements and minor factions and possibly even combine factions together based on their ideologies. A Brotherhood playthrough could have them take control of both the Minutemen AND the Institute since they share values with both factions, but can only destroy the Railroad since they are both egalitarian and pro synth, opposed to the Brotherhood on both axis.
Likewise a Minutemen playthrough could take control of both the Brotherhood AND the Railroad but must destroy the Institute.
This hypothetical would be pretty basic and is pretty much just a rip off of New Vegas, but it would definitely be doable for Bethesda. It's honestly annoying that they basically tease a New Vegas style faction system but don't actually do anything with it.
I agree. People hated the brotherhood's shifting mentality in 3 for all the wrong reasons. Essentially, the split between west and east-coast brotherhood was a micro-example of what made new vegas great: evolving factions. The brotherhood needed to change from a faction of isolationist hoarders into a society to rival the old world nations. Elder Lyons realized this, even if his goals were a bit too idealistic to function long-term. The game adresses this change in relatively satisfying depth, and even had a splinter group vying to bring the brotherhood back to the old ways. This was handled relatively properly, if a bit too shallow in comparison with new vegas.
The backpedalling ABSOLUTELY came because of the fanbase's reaction to this change. The reason for maxson's betrayal of lyons are too vague and oddly loyalist, coming from a boy that was raised within a fully-lyons controlled, fully devoted to nation-building brotherhood. Given his adoration towards sarah and the fatherly affection given him by the elder, his change of heart makes no sense.The shifting mentality of the brotherhood knights after sarah lyons presumably takes over makes no sense either. Why are they all of a sudden traitors, when there was no visible rift between the remaining brotherhood members, all of which stayed with elder lyons after the earlier rift had happened?
If anything, maxson's treachery would have caused a civil war to break out.
It made sense for lyons to betray east-coast brotherhood, as this mindset of helping the wasteland versus controlling tech had already been brewing in the faction for decades. Lyons breaking the chain came at the right moment. To revert that decision is an idiotic one, story-wise. Nothing the player did in fallout 3 is meaningful, if DC is turned into the enclave anyway, given what we know of maxson suggests he is exactly the same as the enclave, minus the old america patriotism. Nothing mattered. Compare this to how the ncr is a continuation of fallout 1 and 2's themes and choices for improving the wasteland, and helping the burgeoning democracy of california.
Plainly, bethesda does not understand and does not care for evolving the setting, and learned the wrong lesson from fan backlash against evolution. It's learning the wrong lesson from the show's success as well. Fallout is officially dead. And Todd and Emil killed it for the normies.
@@RedFloyd469fallout 3 bos is simply stupid because individuals can change and evolve,
Not factions.
all those members of bos were grown in the bos and had indoctrinated: keep tech out anyone, except us, hands.
Having them magically become white knights who die on mass, is stupid.
Remember: the chapter in nv prefer dying that changing their ways,
Why?
The story of the bos is essentially a group that refuse to change and dies out because of that.
"Be a man keep the watermark" utter legend.
Jesus Christ I regret even looking these comments lmao I see why people just avoid the fallout fandom entirely
It’s ravenous down there lol
As a fallout fan
the fallout fandom is easily the worst fandom in all of gaming. We literally have fucking neo-nazis
I legit assumed you had a couple hundred thousand subs until you thanked your first patron. Keep it up dude. This is some high quality content right here.
all the old fallouts are gritty and all the new fallouts are jolly.
Fallout 3 gritty af, that wasteland is beyond bleak
@@andrewmoluf4299 ya, fallout 3 is what i consider old. anything after new vegas is new so basically just falloout 4 and 76.
You got a lot of stupid people in the comments yelling at you because they think all Fallout is and ever was was wacky woo hoo 50's theme park.
You said everything I thought about the show. It's a product created by a bunch of suits that don't understand the message of what they're adapting. But then again, maybe that message has been gone for a long time now.
And to anyone using "but Tim Cain liked it!" as an argument: James Cameron LOVED Terminator Genisys.
16:25 this is a big misconception. Sawyer clarified that Yes Man is not duping you. Yes Man becoming more assertive was just intended to mean that he'll only listen to the Courier rather than anyone who approaches him. There's no twist there.
I liked the show, but didn't like the direction they took the lore, and even if I were a regular viewer, I'd think the plot twists with Vault-tec represents a worrying turn story-wise, like the overly-contrived plots of the later seasons of Westworld, which was also directed by Jonathan Nolan.
Vault tec's nukes being controlled by a single overseer who only used it after a bad breakup because of spite makes no sense from any perspective you can take except one that doesn't know what vault tec is, what the enclave was, and what happened in the old games. Aka, the perspective of a bethesda normie.
Realistically, maclean would have nuked fake shady sands far earlier if "the existence of all these factions" was the problem.
Mauler has a great video going into great detail breaking down how bad the show is and how it completely collapses upon itself when any critical thinking about any of it’s plot and character and tone consistency and writing is applied to it
The show completely lacks what I love about the franchise and goes out of it’s way to completely obliterate the setting, lore and writing established in 1/2/nv turning it into another generic post apocalyptic setting but with a fallout skin at least the Bethesda games happened away from the classics
Like my god it’s horrendously bad beyond wow it has the basic post apocalyptic tone (despite fallout always been post post apocalyptic) and the props and costumes are great
There is a great line (sorta taken out of context) from the show’s producer “reference, reference reference. No story”
Bro that guy is like Eeyore, he’s a sad sack complaining about everything. Don’t be him unless you can profit off it lol
@@andrewmoluf4299 I don't understand where this meme of Mauler "complaining about/ being unable to enjoy everything" came from. He literally recommends 3 other shows in his video criticizing the Fallout show.
If the show doesn't have turned based combat - it"s not real Fallout
choosing to watch the TV show, but deciding to pause it every ten seconds. Print out the dialogue and silently read it yourself for the authentic fallout experience!
Synthetic Boy looks like Patrick Wood Crusius in his mug shot.
This isn’t as complicated as you’re trying to make it out to be.
Todd Howard and Emil Pagliarilo made a Fallout game. Then most of the original creators were given the chance to make another Fallout game with an insanely disadvantageous deadline and it was demonstrably better than Fallout 3 in every way. Todd and Emil became jealous that fans want good games instead of just praising them for being given whatever Todd and Emil feel like giving us.
The show, at best, is an example of how little those two care about the IP. But the nuking of Shady Sands and portraying of NCR survivors as cultists reveals their pettiness. This was just a cheap shot at the fans that won’t clap like trained seals.
While i’m inclined to agree with you (Todd and friends certainly seem like the worse artists) I don’t want to attribute to jealousy what I can just as easily attribute to corporate lack of creativity. Although I do think Todd is a bit full of himself.
Alternate theory: todd howard’s leather jacket is like The Mask and is turning him evil
@@muffintopmd my perspective on it rears its head when you see younger Todd answering questions about F3 and Bethesda's purchase of the IP. It comes across the way it does in the games they've made: They were fans who thought Fallout was cool, and it kind of stops there. Super mutants, bottlecaps, vaults, ghouls, the BoS, etc. are all very cool and a part of Fallout. Also not understanding that Fallout isn't a post-apocalyptic 1950's setting, it's the 90's interpretation of the 50's retro-futurist ideas about 2077, nuked to shit and what comes after that.
Not to sound like us fans know better and understand what Fallout is/was/should be really about and they don't know jack as the IP holders but, it definitely *feels* like they maybe had a surface level appreciation of the setting.
@@muffintopmdJealousy is real. They retconned everything the originals introduced. They made their version of power armor to be the superior one too. It’s just hilarious at this point. Obsidian added skeleton in the fridge as a joke, and then they added people who used fridge to take shelter became ghouls. Ghouls needed food and water to survive in the originals, and they destroyed it by saying they don’t need food or water. Then they changed the lore again and created a drug for ghouls to stay sane. What made Ghouls different from zombies was that they were still human, even the Feral ones. Feral ghouls don’t attack you untik you get really close in Necropolis.
Not this conspiracy theory again... Literally how could you possibly think this could ever be true. The nuking of shady sands and presenting a faction (that was never perfect to begin with) as "cultists" reveals their pettiness...
My god, have you any idea how ridiculous that is?
Todd didn't even come up with the idea of nuking Shady Sands, the show writers did. In fact Todd didn't even like the idea at first. Your comment makes no sense.
Fallout 4 isn't Post-Apocalyptic it's just a game set in the same universe as the movie Idiocracy.
If Odo tells me to give him the platinum chip then I give him the chip.
holy shit how did i never notice? when you go to kill house in NV he should’ve just turned into a pool of goop and slithered away with no context.
Honestly, I got fallout in 97, I’ve replayed 1 and 2 so many times I’ve lost count, I start a replay every year on my birthday as a little ritual. Fallout 3 and 4 did very little for me, though I think 4 with survival mode and far harbor are the best Bethesda has done with the license, treating 4 as a survival and building game and ignoring the main story as of getting the brotherhood taxi service. That + mods and there’s a salvageable game in there that I’ve put a few hundred hours into the last couple years (I didn’t even touch the game til the pandemic because I’m so skeptical of Bethesda’s fallout efforts). 76, people talked me into trying it saying “oh it’s so much better” and my god it’s everything I hate about MMO games plus incredibly tiny server size so you can’t reliably get on a server with anyone you want to play with…bletch, it’s just grinding, all the good parts of fallout 4 are either gone (camps are a poor replacement for settlements and what they did to VATS is awful) or locked behind endless grindy bullshit
All that to say, I’m about as skeptical and grognardy about fallout as possible, and I thought the show was fantastic! It captured the feeling of the games really well and was its own story that is basically the opening act of a new chapter of the franchise. I can’t wait to see what more we find out about the NCR, whether they explain why shady sands moved 200 miles away etc. It also had the added benefit of making my wife a fan. It’s pretty much everything I could’ve asked for out of an adaptation
This is Bethesda canonically killing other dev company canons. I think they did this in purpose to piss on obsidian
I think you need to touch grass more often.
Considering Bethesda had dick and squat to sell alongside the show I doubt any of that was their idea.
They barely think out their own stories and world (starfield) so all of these larger cannon changes were for sure showrunners that found it the best way to compensate with the many endings provided by new vegas
Normal people don’t behave in this way, you may be suffering from paranoia
Piss Obsidian? Who are they gonna piss? Caine, Sawyer, and Avellone left Obsidian time ago.
Agree. Would not be surprised if Todd holds a grudge that none of the fallout he's responsible for is widely considered the best.
While I see the criticism with the show, from a writing perspective I kind of think it being dumbed down makes sense for the first season of a TV show that is introducing the franchise to a lot of people. It isn’t a multi hour video game about choice and the nuances of humanity in this format, so there’s a lot of ground to cover that can introduce concepts to people who are unaware while also expanding on what is there for people familiar with the setting. For me, I’m going to hold off full judgement of full blown franchise assassination until the second season. They have it set up to where, so long as they hear the criticism that has been given, they could really easily course correct and make the second season feel even more like Fallout 1, 2, and NV. For their sakes, I hope they do. The inclusion of New Vegas is a huge power play that they have to execute damn near perfectly, otherwise a very vocal part of the community is gonna full-on riot
Just another video shitting on Bethesda fallout there saved you 30 minutes
Thanks man, you're a lifesaver, almost wasted my time with this thing
Just another Bethesda shill suсking, here I saved you 10 second of reading that comment.
Based.
And we need more like these , we can't let ppl think these shit show good
@@juanrollel3693 I mean, people who like the show aren't going to care anyway
New Vegas is my favorite Fallout game. I started the franchise with 3. Morrowind is my favorite Elder Scrolls game.
I expected the show to be the tone and 'reading level' of 3/4, and was pleasantly surprised with what we got. I expect season 2 will roughly amalgamate the tone of New Vegas, and shit all over its lore. I remember Westworld season 2. I hope I'll like season 2 as much as I did 1, but I don't think it's likely
I tend to order my pizza with the power armor on the side
I only have player 3 and New Vegas but I'm familiarized with 1 and 2 and I think the whole shady sands thing is not that big of a deal. Perhabs if anyone did a "NV/OG sort of sequel" they'll do a similar thing,so I don't mind. The show was amazing and confirms that every time the story is not an dumb down "BoS good Enclave Bad" situation you are in the right track.
Upon us finishing the show, my partner who has had mild exposure to Fallout through me asked, "Is this a good way to get people into Fallout?"
My answer, after a long pause thinking about the current player numbers; "I am forced to conclude that it was."
The best setting for the show would've been anywhere in the midwest; their vault is centered on apple pie and growing corn, the ghoul is a cowboy, and america's nukes are stored there not california, so where did hank get the nukes?
It's like I want to be a Fallout fan, but other Fallout fans keep telling me not to, the games tell me not to, the f*cking updates ALSO tell me not to.
It's like why should I invest my time and money to a studio that doesn't value its own games or audience.
How are you gonna release an update that makes Fallout 4 completely unplayable??
F*ck Todd.
This is like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon.
You're referencing Warlockracy, who himself referenced the OG Fallout Creator, Alchestbreach.
Man, that guy deserves more views for his consistency over the years if nothing else.
He's the reason some of the New Vegas Modders even got interested in making content, evidenced by the fact they reference his character IN mod.
(Sponsored by Goo Goo Bars™.)
I don't really care about the BOS, Vaults or Enclave. I just like how the games look (except new vegas).
I don't hate the show but I also won't defend it's issues. Like yeah it sort of makes sense for the Strip to be destroyed. On the other hand Nolan and the other show creators said they reboot the West Coast because they didn't like that it was rebuilt.
Like as if wasteland can’t begin to heal because the apocalypse is supposedly more interesting then rebuilding a nation
Great vid!
@23:11 ah yeah you started to notice lol it's been going on for years
Bethesda saw the braids and copied them but they do not understand the history and meaning.
Ulysses would never approve
Yeah, 4 minutes in and the time line is wrong . Van Buren was canceled in Dec 2003 and Black Isle was shut down because interplay was FO3 for auction in 3rd Quarter 2004. Interplay canceled the OG Baldurs Gate 3 in 2003 and lost the license to create DnD shortly after but not before having the last released game Black Isle work on be a Baldur's Gate Hack and Slash arpg console exclusive. So I think it was les Bethesda, but more a clear shift in interplay's direction and desperation that got Van Buren canceled not a sale that happened a year later.
i think that actually the TV serie got a tone more like new vegas, and not that cartoony like FO4 and FO76
Setting the show on the east coast would have solved all the problems. However, it would have also defeated the creators' intent - from an interview with Todd, we know that nuking Shady Sands is what they wanted. The writers fully believe that all of Fallout should be like the east coast, and that any civilisation in the setting is anthetical to the setting.
They're wrong. Fallout isn't post-apoc, it's post-post-apoc. Civilisations, however scattered, are at the heart of such a setting. That's what the Interplay games + New Vegas do best. And that's why the New California Republic had to go. It doesn't matter what they represented - they have to go. It doesn't matter if this makes the setting worse - they have to go. It doesn't matter if we do it badly or insultingly - they have to go. And so must everyone else.
great video, dude
I never understood Legion stands aside as tryhards. Literally every other choice for the Mojave would be better at governing it.
12:52 meanwhile Black Isle/Obsidian:
Fallout 1: I'm going to find the Water Chip
Fallout 2: I'm going to find the G.E.C.K.
Fallout New Vegas: I'm goimg to find the Platinum Chip
The *REAL* difference between Bethesda and Black Isle/Obsidian is that Bethesda instead of having a really bad McGuffin has a family member to which the protagonist is *EMOTIONALLY* attached. In New Vegas NCR and the Legion can kill each other for what I care. Is the NCR better than the Legion? Sure but they are still not a real democracy, commit horrific war crimes and literally occupy foreign territory. It's a bit like USA vs. Russia. Sure Russia is even worse but I have a really hard time to sympathize with the NCR/USA. It's the *lesser* evil bjt it is still evil. My favorite ending is Yes Man but it is still bad as you don't get to decide anything and Yes Man just weirdly goes into sleep mode for an unknown amount of time and is luterally a lazily written YES MAN who is magically immortal.
that's an opinion for sure
@@KristianD3 that's a reply for sure
so instead of a simple McGuffin that acts as a driving force for the player character to explore the world, you'd rather have the player have emotional attachments and motives placed upon them by the developers? in an RPG?. Do you not realize that this is a game where you make different characters, that are supposed to side with different people based on that characters own moral/beliefs? the goal of the factions are to present a set of ideologies with pros and cons for the PC to decide what is best for them based on how you build them. And NV actually had a really good contextual reason as to why you can't kill Yes Man: his AI is connected to every bit of technology in the strip, so trying to kill him is futile. This is much more interesting as oppose to just having inexplicably immortal NPC's that have no reason why they shouldn't die other than the developers need them to be.
@@vaengr2695 well in Fallout New Vegas no matter what character you make the game forces you to go to the Tops
@@funki4896 thats literally wrong, you can beat NV without having to see benny a single time
Bethesda's Fallout is a joke. They are inconsistent with lore and tone of the franchise, the world is stagnant and boring, and have been turning it into a shooter with rpg elements when it should be the other way around.
If anyone wants to play what a modern Fallout game should be, try Wasteland 3, it ain't perfect but it's more fallout then Fallout 4 and 76.
"inconsistent with lore and tone of the franchise" - Fallout 2. Big time. Far more so than any Bethesda Fallout.
Also New Vegas, that is nothing like 1 or 2 either.
@@dommoore6180To what retcons are you referring to in Fallout 2? Please, do tell, because the only one I can think of is when they slightly moved moved Shady sands and Vault 15 a little bit south on the overworld map.
New Vegas is actually very in line with the tone of the isometric games, but as for it not being similar to them in gameplay, that's because when Bethesda lent the IP to Obsidian, they **likely** told them that it had to be made using the fallout 3 engine, also, do you know how impossible it would've been to make a game from the ground up in just 18 months??? because that's how long Obsidian was given to work on New Vegas.
@@dommoore6180 Respond to him
@@dommoore6180 do it
If anyone actually cared about the wishes of the actual creator of fallout they wouldn't fuck with anything after the original because there was never even meant to be a sequel.
Ayy bro, just like an idea, but you could've put some gameplay off to this side of you talking and it would've given viewers who are just watching your video something to fixate on. No hate on the porch shot though, nice vibe
Long time Fallout player. Enjoyed the show.
Long time since Fallout 3
Define long time. Long time like since 1999? Or long time like 2015? 😆
Because I've heard people going "yeah, I'm a big fan of Fallout" and then in the next sentence "I only played 4 and 76" xd
Sixteen years. But if someone had been playing since 2015, I'd consider that a long time. After all, a decade devoted to a franchise is notable in its own right.
@@russianoverkill3715 Oh great, the online Fallout police arrived. Are you gonna arrest him because he wasn't introduced to the series by playing the "right Fallout"?
@@ghgtare oh look, consumerist, he will tell me I'm so evil for gatekeeping my favorite franchise from tourists and normies who ruin it.
Anybody who has not played Fallout 1 (and 2) cannot be considered "veteran" :D
what the fuck is “belly laugh”
20 year fan and thought the show was fine.
"mixed reactions" bro must be living in an alternate reality
Not letting me sub to your channel 😢
the problem is bethesda and todd howard directly insulting fallout players
U need more subs man, quality content 👌
Got my subscription.
I was forced to watch the show by friends that like to suffer aneurysms from watching horrible things.
We came to the conclusion that the show was enjoyable during episode 3, 4 and 5. Effectively when the setting, story and characters take the backseat and it's just random moments of chaos.
That's not a compliment to the show, far from it.
Well done! I did a critique video of the show immediately after watching it and I was pilloried. It's nice to see that there's space for critiquing this show now and really assessing the damage it's done to the story of Fallout.
Because you can't please them.
Creator said its good
good shit man
Speaking as a long time fallout fan. The time-line doesn't add up either and I'm pretty mad about that because it drastically changes the political landscape of new vegas. Also what about arroyo. Why do people hate vault dwellers if there literally is a legend of a vault dweller who not only saved his people he founded an entire city a stones throw away from where lucy is. So much potential. WASTED. It's so meh. Wanted to be won over but it's at best meh at worst utterly disrespectful to its most popular title. Feels deliberate to me tbh. I can just see Todd Howard rubbing his greasy hand together and laughing maniacally.
All the games are pretty good and the show was dope
Thin crust pizza!?! Your insane suffed crust all the way
What are all these "ideas" missing from West Coast FO to East Coast FO? Elaborate.
Why did you post 8 different comments?
@@kyleegan2830 I didn't post 8 times. What would it matter if I did?
@@kyleegan2830because they are butt-hurt that people criticize bethesda
Another settlement needs your help! I’ll mark it on your map.
@matty4419 I don't care if anyone criticizes Bethesda. They definitely aren't anywhere near as good at writing dialog or story and their development has gotten too streamlined and as buggy as always. They need a new engine for their games. Starfield is proof of that. And Todd Howard is just a salesman that overpromises and under delivers. Doesn't change that the show is great and the best adaptation of a video game to television or movies I have ever seen and a lot of people agree with me.
The TV show was an 8/10 game adaption but a 5/10 tv show
As a fallout 1,2,NV schizo I thought the show was great however I never wanted Bethesda on that side of the country I knew they would do wack shit...Shady Sands was doomed to fail even in NV if you talk to certain NCR members it looks bleak and an L at Hoover would be a nail in the coffin. But a nuke? seriously we couldn't have a disease or anything else bro released? had to just nuke shady sands? not even like a just genuine slow fall of a small nation due to corruption? this entire story could've been told in the east coast and almost nothing would've changed BUT the most iconic stuff is from the west so we gotta go Bethesda it up over there NO they're cant be ANY civilizations with ANY progress besides the brotherhood this is the post apocalypse.
Cant wait to not see anything predicted to cross into the Mojave like the Could and Tunnelers
The nuke was the literal example of I am big mad so I ruin your stuff just because
Make a bit of halo content dude I’d like to hear your stances on the topic
good to see more people not blindly praise this mess of a show, at least avatar fans could admit that their show's adaptation wasn't the best
Fun channel to find.......interesting......
If it's fine by Tim Cain, it's fine by me.
That's how I view all of this.
Based video.
What's bugged me the most about the development of Fallout (I played NV for the first time at 14, 14 years ago) is Bethesda's or Todd's specifically, obvious hate for New Vegas' success. Instead of learning from the way Obsidian composed a story and made the wasteland feel alive, they continued in their own way of doing things. That's the biggest disappointment I think
831st sub :>
Your pizza analogy fell apart when you had to put F3 after NV in order to make it work. Sorry that you experienced them in that order, but NV wouldn't exist in its beloved form if F3 hadn't set the stage so well.
Over the past few weeks, I have seen very few people say that the fallout show was bad. And even those who said that the show was “alright” they always would follow it up with saying that it’s the best video game adaptation. Those I have seen who didn’t like the show often didn’t like it for either lore reasons or they didn’t like it because they hired a minority to play a very minor role. Btw I think your video frames the fallout show as Bethesda misunderstanding west coast fallout, but you fail to mention that it’s just the first season of multiple, you imply that the fallout show tells the audience that the NCR is totally destroyed due to the fall of shady sands, even though the show hasn’t even gotten the chance to explain why the NCR has either been destroyed or fragmented
Change without explanation is not really known for being well received so Im not sure why its so shocking that some fans are upset right now. I dont think the show is bad but it has clearly diverged from the original tone of the series. Fallout used to be a hamburger but now theyve gone and added cheese. Some people like cheese, but other people find it cheesy haha.
The show sucks even if you don’t associate it with fallout the plot is all over the place, why did Hank not know the other vault was completely dead. If Moldaver is such a great person why did she lead a band of raiders to a vault when she is supposedly the “good guy”? How did Hank get a nuke? Why are the corporations bent on destroying the world to earn maximum profit, if you want money and the things money can buy then why destroy all of it? Just to name some examples
@@TheKingoftheAWESOME 1. Idk what you mean by Hank not know vault was dead, I’m assuming you mean vault 32, which Hank did know about since he is part of vault tec 2. The show never attempts to make moldaver a good guy, moldaver kills a bunch of innocent people at the beginning of the show, and by the end of the season we learn more about moldaver and we learn why they did what they did, idk why you thought the show wanted you to think moldaver was a good guy, no faction or character being good and evil is the core of fallout
3. We don’t know how Hank got a nuke, we might find out in another season, Hank is clearly shown to be a very competent and dangerous man, the show is leaving some things ambiguous before the next season, ambiguity doesn’t mean bad
4. The corporations never said that they want money, I honestly wonder if you have actually seen the show or not, that scene with the corporations left a lot of things ambiguous, the entire meeting they were talking about experiments, you can’t make money off experimenting people, so why would you assume they wanted to end the world for money?
@@Gouda992 For the record, he 100% didn't watch the show and very likely got most of his talking point from the Mauler video.
@@ghgtare makes sense, I’ve never seen or heard of mauler but based on this guy he seems to be the kinda channel who make bad faith criticism
Maybe next time just stick to talking about games you've played
Exactly what I was thinking
I grew up on Fallout 1&2, at this point the lore is so violently inconsistent in presentation and just general facts that I genuinely can’t believe some people are really that upset about the inconsistencies in a Hollywood TV show, I’m fucking shocked this wasn’t just a cash grab but actually feels like a good story. Imo this is that Bethesda action movie plot finally coming to an actually engaging story, the elements it took from the story of 3&4 not only are used better but somewhat fit in with established lore of the OG games and even seemingly kinda acknowledges tactics lore maybe? Tone wise id say this is closest to Fallout 1 which is my personal favorite for the series, fuckin Todd Howard took the already mediocre tone of FO2 then stretched and morphed it into a stink pile of horse shit with Fallout 3. New Vegas just made its own tone and Fallout 4 feels like it’s wearing Fallout black face tone wise but it’s gameplay is probably the best Bethesda ever made so fuck it. Fallout TV feels mostly like that dark realistic post apocalypse comedy with only a bit of Bethesda era cringe. It’s like a solid 7.5/10 which is better than all the other Bethesda made fallouts. Fuck Fallout 3, even Starfield is better than that 4/10 crock of shit
If it's a good story, what is Moldaver's plan? You should know by the end of the show, since it was only greenlit for one season at first. Did she PLAN on just demonstrating to Vault-Tec that she could light up another city in order to get her ass nuked again? She knew the Brotherhood and Enclave would be after her, too, so why do that?
Now, you could just chalk that up to more shitty committee writing, but this time there really is a plot. The show's writers told everyone what it was before the show even aired. The canon theme of Fallout is now "haves vs have-nots". They crammed that theme in everywhere they could, regardless of whether or not it made sense. I mean, Vault-Tec nuking the world for profit, in order to create a society where they control everything, is just impossibly retarded for any company. They even say competition creates war, and then bring along their own competition. And the investors BOUGHT that. They're just clownishly evil and stupid capitalists.
They have to be, because "haves vs have-nots" is Marxist class warfare garbage, and the focal point of the larger world plot is Moldaver, the Communist heroine. Naturally, she's very diverse, because "Woke" is actually Intersectional Neo-Marxism. Same revolution to overthrow society, same dumb ideas, larger proletariat to make sure the revolution occurs THIS time. Woke activists have infiltrated all sorts of media by making sure they get preferential treatment whilst excoriating others, which is why so much our media turns to shit. Their directive is not to make good media, it's to subvert institutions in order to create propaganda.
Here's the really clever part, though. Moldaver is written as poorly as the Woke write any character, and blaming the war on Vault-Tec LOOKS really dumb because it would be in normal world. But in reality, the sole purpose of that HUGE writing change was to ensure that the NCR would be destroyed so it can be re-made into a Woke version at any point, be it a game or more seasons. She dies a martyr, giving away free electricity with no fucking plan, and getting her people killed, JUST to illustrate how bad everyone else is. That way, the NCR that Fallout's largest group of adherents adore will be brought into the Woke reconstruction of it, and hail it as a great story, especially when it holds off the bad guys.
Lucy will probably be the scion for that. Maybe something else will happen and Moldaver has some other way of being immortal, but the die is already cast. It was from the moment the writers changed Fallout's theme and crammed this class warfare bullshit into it. The Brotherhood already got that treatment, too, and it will also change because it is ridiculously stupid and evil now. The Vault Dwellers are fucked, as are any groups like the Minutemen, because Woke cannot leave the existing society in place. It's against Communist doctrine.
Thus, regardless of the quality, or lack of it, in previous games, the entire story just turned to shit right in front of everyone's faces. It's already subverted. Of course, the older players see what happened to the lore, and the vast majority of them are trying to make sense of it. They've taken this tack that Todd must be behind this out of spite for Obsidian. But who do we know that is spiteful in everything they do, all the time, if not the Woke?
Indeed, Obsidian ENDORSED this show, so how do they explain that? They try, but the fact of the matter is that Fallout has always been "Progressive", which just means "Progressing farther left." The Progressives of today are very similar to the Woke, so it doesn't take much to nudge them over.
We are looking at the results of THAT story, and Fallout will fall just like so many other institutions have, with people trying to figure out what the fuck was really going on because they don't understand Leftist ideology, and never learned.
@@arcdecibel9986 bro this is a fuckin schizo post, the show never did any "haves vs have nots" themes that the entire fucking series hasn't had. Get laid and stop freaking the fuck out over a show I said was a fuckin 7.5/10 this show is still better than Fallout 3 or 4's story because Moldaver being kinda stupid is allot better than the antagonists plans in either of those games.
Get laid, drink some water, stop being a fuckin crazy person
Edit: typo
You don't get a new Vegas without Bethesda creating Fallout 3. A lot of people forget that.
More importantly, Bethesda would have no Fallout 3 without the greatness of Fallout 1 and 2.
Without Bethesda FO3, Troika FO3 would have a chance to exist, hmmm, dont sell me a better scenario
Or the IP would be probably dead, just like Arcanum. @@noddy1973
Yeah, but Troika - the geniuses behind some of the greatest masterpieces in CRPG history were already working on FO3 at the time. A game that would blow our minds. Instead we got FO3 for kids from Bethesda. Yikes.
There are concept videos on YT, if anyone's interested.
@@panwu6602 That is an interesting information. I didnt know that. Well Troika Fallout sounds awesome, but unfortunately, whats done is done
Controlled by a libertarian is an oxymoron my dude