To bend or not to bend? (arm mechanics in the clean)
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Are you getting the most out of your clean pull? Do you struggle with arm bend? Here are some tips to help!
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0:15 EVERYONE STOP MIRIN'
No
Thick. Solid. Tight.
we all gonna make it brahs
What about all the people who clean with straps but don't snap they wrists?
idk man I'm pretty sure Ilya Ilyin knows what he's doing.
This is not the video on building huge arms to become like Jacked Telander I was lead to believe. Dropped.
When he said 'and as always'... I really was expecting 'Train UNTAAAAMED!!!' lmao
oh shit I'm rewatcheing this video one year later, want to make the a comment about the 'and as always..' part. So I scroll down and liked a comment referring to Alan Thrall only to realize it was my very own comment a year ago lol
Hey, a good comment is a good comment.
While I agree that bending the arms in the pull is not optimal, it can sometimes be unavoidable due to an individual's morphology. Lasha Talakhadze would be a great example of this; the length of his limbs does not allow for an "optimal" pull without bent arms, and yet he is one of the strongest men in the world.
Of course. I agree and thats why I acknowledge it. MANY of the elites have arm bend. However its a result of the flow into the second/third pull and never a result of poor pulling technique and ability. Thank you for your comment.
Why would it not be optimal?
You are not Lasha
Ma fav part is the end, is it only me?
Always bringing that quality. I push your videos like doctors push meds bro.
Mark thank you brother 🙏
Excellent choice of music.
Also you're damn strong for a lankbro.
Name of instrumental?
This is a problem in my clean that I have been recently trying to fix. Good timing bro
once a year or so I start rewatching all of your vids and I'm always blown away by these masterpieces of useful information and art. nobody ever expected you to pick up that guitar but we be mirin hard
With due respect, Zack could learn a lot by reading the studies by Roman and Medveyev. They studied this stuff in detail with high speed cameras, force plates etc. The athlete-barbell system does a very good job over time of self-tuning and adopting to structure/relative lever lengths etc (dolichomorph vs brachiomorph etc). Arm bend is NOT suboptimal. As coaches we TEACH straight arms because we want lifters not to try to PULL the bar up by bending their arms. But what we teach and cue does not reflect reality. The reason many elite lifters (and non-elites) bend the arms as the bar passes the knees is to compensate for the loss of speed during the so called double knee bend. It's a way to compensate for that speed loss. The shortening of the arms somewhat makes up for this speed loss during the period when the knees move forward. It's a compensatory mechanism and it can definitely OPTIMIZE the pull. Depending on the lifters relative levers/mechanics etc. some lifters may do this more than others, but it is definitely NOT a "mistake". It has to do with optimizing acceleration (minimizing velocity loss during the moving forward of the knees..)
Part of the bend w/ an early shurg also allows the bar to keep a close path, otherwise youre going to rotate out at anything that isn't light
Agree with you 100%, screw ego lifting, technique technique technique
Your content is gold my dude 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
heaving hang anything is a staple in throw specific lifting. love it!!
I've always liked just watching Olympic lifting over the years but even now your videos give me a whole new perspective of all the intricacies. I will still be incorporating some nasty arm bend in my curls though.
sickest outro
I was gonna stop before the end, but I'm glad I didn't. That was LEGIT.
I think you should do a video exploring the concept of working from tension, finding tension, going from the top down, the benefits of descending hang work, etc.
You deserve more views...and more suscriptions! Alas, you don't give the WOW effect...And it's a good thing...Great shirt BTW
I GOT 5 ON ZACK, LETS GO HALF ON SNATCHHHHH!!!! THANKS FOR THE NEW VIDEO!!!!!
Your Content is GOLD MEDAL
Thank you very much!
Greetings from Germany
You sir deserves more views. Thanks for all your tips mate!
You always have great drills, do you have any good drills for vocals? Lol I'm assuming you sing? Sometimes it's hard to warm up my voice. Thanks man
Hey Zack- love the informative content. This channel has really developed my respect for the complexities of Oly lifting. Question, my main goals are within the realms of calisthenics (one arm chin up and hand stand push up) but I love the clean and have been slowly working on mobility and technique to incorporate them into my leg day. I wonder, though, is it wise for me to involve cleans in the midst of an otherwise heavily arm involved program? Or should I stick with front and back squats until my upper body calisthenics goals are accomplished and they are moved to maintenance?
Just now seeing this video Zack, good stuff. I wanted to note that the Chinese teach activation of the lats to bring the bar into the hips/power position so the arm bend is the result of this action and not so much a deliberate arm bend per say.
Someone is going to snap their shit up doing those cleans with straps
Kappamomondo as long as you don’t squat and go maximally it’s pretty safe trust me
powers are fine if you dont have retaeded technique
Can you please make a video snatch and clean pulls. Many coaches especially in crossfit teach you to do pulls with straight arms and use you're traps to shrug. However, klokov and Aleksey say it is important to bend you're arms when pulling cause if not the bar projects away from you're body. Personally i believe Klokov and Aleksey but i believe it would make a very interesting video and would be keen to her you're opinion.
Cheers
6ixth.Sanction depends on how high the pull is
it depends
if you bend your arms during the second pull (knee to hip) excessively, straight arms after final extension can help to train less arm bend for beginners
if you have competent technique and don't arm bend excessively, then klokov and aleksey are right.
Great stuff man!!
Thank you for sharing the knowledge ZT
2:30 not to mention risk of bicep tear
You're sure as hell worth it Zack!
outro made me cry
As of now, 23000 subs exactly! Congrats!
Der Wandersmann thank you for watching!
Hey Zack, glad you addressed this topic. I’d love to see your take on Mark Rippetoe’s cueing of higher hips than usually coached in the Olympic lifts. I’ve coached both traditional hip positioning and the Starting Strength method, although I haven’t coached elite athletes and a shit ton of novices my gestalt and experience has been that the higher hips is actually effective. I’d love to hear you analyze that. Thank you.
I'm not Zack, but;
I think Rippetoe is approaching it from two different angles than an Olympic weightlifter.
1: He's teaching College Athletes, who will also deadlift. They don't really have the years and years of practice time available to learn how to snatch/clean 'correctly', so it's easier for them to just use the same position that they deadlift with. It also makes the lift a lot more strength dependent, if they're doing it with sub-optimal technique.
2: If you look at older weightlifters (Think pre 1960s), you'll see that they too pull with much higher hips than today. A big factor is that for the first half of the century, no contact was allowed, so they were required to hip hinge and brute the weight up, as opposed to modern 'low, fast, close' styles. Mark Rippetoe, and many American/UK coaches of weightlifting are still stuck in that mindset, it's what they learnt and they are stubborn.
Alex G that was a very well worded and very educational response-did not know about the no contact rule, appreciate the reply. What do you think about the claim that more bar height can be achieved from this position? Personally I’ve found most of my male trainees do achieve a higher bar height from this position, which might be due to the bias of starting and focusing on deadlifts as you mentioned. But the bar does go up higher so would it be possible to recreate that with higher level athletes that sink their hips lower at the start?
Hm. I think if the person was strong enough, then yes an absolute bar height would be greater with a brute strength hip hinge lift, ala what it had to be in the old days. In modern weightlifting, the bar only needs to get a little above your hips, you just need to be able to get under it. In fact I've seen more than a few people advise against aiming to achieve maximal bar height when doing pulls.
To put it bluntly, if maximal bar height was an optimal way to lift, we'd see plenty of power snatches/cleans winning competitions and breaking records. But we don't. An analogy would be something like Formula 1 racing. A bigger engine might be better, but a car with better down-force and minimal air resistance would probably still win with a smaller engine.
I think Rippetoe esque Snatching and Cleaning probably carries over a lot better to athletes that don't seek to obtain maximal results in the Snatch/Clean, but maximal results in strength and power to express on the field.
Outstanding as usual...many thanks.
why are your videos so good
i dont even perform power movements
Zack- might be an overly simple question. Some lifters have really long arms and do more arm bend (CJ Cummings) some Columbians etc. is what they do acceptable mostly since they’re “elite”? I thought you may mention some lifters w very long arms, if sequenced right, benefit by a bit more arm bend....
Lmfao CZcams trying to be slick giving me the Mr Clean ad before the vid
Excellent nuances! Thank you.
Watched the video. Before my coach said my first pull was bad. Afterwards he saying my first pull is awesome. Haha thanks for the vid
if you keep increasing number on the bars why is bending the arms an error? Everyone plateau every now and then, I think increasing strength over all might help not just changing the technique
I have longer arm and longer leg than Tian Tao so if he have to bend his arms that much to get to the optimal position, I have to bend my arms even more. More power generate with hip clean and it does not lead to injury so I don't see why bending arm to get to that position harm the lifters in anyways.
Tian Tao is doing that because his arms are so short that he can't go any wider on the grip, if you can have a wider grip, then that would be preferred over arm bent. Premature arm bent usually reduce the fluidity of the pull, as the freedom of movement for the elbow joints induces instability. If you can pull straight without losing force, by all means bend your arms.
6:59 monosynaptic stretch reflex. would you say that the knuckles down also allows you to pull the bar into yourself (actively engaging lats), rather than letting the bar get away from your body (knuckles outward).
BeNdInG YoUr aRmS iS BaD
agreed
Zack Telander great video btw 😁
Hi Zack,
Could you please make a video regarding 'bending the elbows' when receiving the snatch overhead (catch position) ?
Thank you.
great video as always! could you please talk about oly weightlifting and health or longevity? i would realy value your opnion
Yehonatan yarden this will for sure come. I have about 5 master’s athletes
yes me to i'm really intrested in cartilage at the knee, hip and low back (l4, l5) after multiple years of weightlifting
So...I must have a vision problem. I listen to what you say about arm bend...and I watch the video, and I miss/don't see the movement that you're mentioning. I know I'm obtuse - which is my problem. But doesn't the arm have to bend? How would you bring the bar over your elbows to your shoulder otherwise? (and they say there's no such thing as a stupid question)
Arm bend vs straight arms... It depends is the actual answer. Over emphasized and coached. Not necessarily good or bad because it depends.
Heavy russian kbell swings will also help w/ the tension loading.
Why would the arms have to bend for someone to shrug and tighten up in the upper back?
This is an amazing video thanks!
More gitar please!
Set/reps for the heaving hang power clean exercise? Do you recommend a certain percentage to work with? Thank you for the video.
Awesome stuff!
Where did you get that shirt? I have to get one!
Thanks Zack !
Serenading me once again with your vids, lol
Thanks, this is really helpful!
I'm a fan of Mattie, but your example of her at 3:45 has pretty blatant arm bend too. Obviously not as much as the comparison you're using, but still quite a bit.
My coach teaches the down knuckle grip in the snatch. Because it's easier to avoid getting the bar too far out (in front of you), which I have a problem with. Is this a cue you can relate to, or vouch for?
Hey Zack, I coach at a CF gym and one of our coaches has a strong pull (has easily doubled 225kg on his DL), but has trouble with when and how to bend his arms in the clean, due to their disproportionate length. For a frame of reference, he’s probably around 6’1” with at least a 6’5” wingspan. Sometimes he’ll start with early arm bend (he has fairly strong biceps so he can get away with this) but some of his best cleans have made contact around the low-mid thigh. Do you have any advice?
Good super helpful information sir
So its safe to say that if the bar hits the hips during a clean (my arms are short), it is still a good lift/technique?
The House of the Lifting Sun
Great video.
I love the outro
hey zack.
im wondering what kind of pulling straps you would recommend? i feel like the lasso straps are kind of unsafe
This video was so sick 😂😂
If someone has longer arms, is bent arms acceptable? I see Li Dayin and Shi Zhiyong both have bent arms when they get passed the knee. Do they intentionally do this or is there a reason?
Any help would be great 😊
Have you ever done a video on your favorite athletes to watch? I'm curious to know if you have any specific weightlifters you be mirin'
+ you can't actively using your arms after the second pull
Love the outro
Where do the lats come in during the lift from the ground? When I went to China to train with Coach Wu and some of the national lifters (2:52 guy was awesome, short as hell too), they taught us that lats need to be "fast" and engaged the whole time - almost like we're rowing from the 2nd to 3rd pull, hence some slight arm bend in Chinese lifters.
I'd say they're on straight from the ground. Keep your back safe and pull in the bar.
WHERE IS THE KIRILL PAVLOV CLIP, ZACK???!!!!!
Thought you were going to bend one of the notes at the end
I thought you weren't supposed to do cleans with straps?
Cool T-shirt! We’re can I get one?
The catapult hang power clean
But Zack, what about the bicep gains?
It's yea boi.
Do you have any video on technique for people with short arms relative to their torso?
that's called a gift in weightlifting.
What straps are you using?
Whats the song in the intro
What's the intro song?
love it
Jessica Lucero should watch this video
thx for vid
Matthew Ross thx for view
Do your entire next video whilst singing and playing guitar.
I got five on it
whats the name of the song at the end ? :D
House Of The Rising Sun
Mario Martinez?
I got 5 on it
I saw the devil outro
Zack Telancer i you're a good teacher but the way you do Heaving power clean makes you look like you're dancing
Shi Zhiyong?
Everyone's Eiki yessir. IMO shi has the potential to be the second best ever. Behind Naim
👍
for the algo
Invest in a tuner! Hahaha
Luniz
The weightlifting community was extremely happy NOT to have this type of overly analytical and frankly philosophical videos that are pretty common in the bodybuilding and powerlifting communities.
I take SACKS to the face, Whenever I can 😉