Genevieve von Petzinger found 32 rock symbols, painted (some carved) across Europe from 40k to 10k yrs ago, & ending as megaliths and millstones/agriculture began. Some of these symbols are found on all continents bar Antarctica, but 16 are still in use along Australia's Song Lines, being key to how Aborigines (with no agriculture) navigate the Outback.
Navigation may have been very important, for both carvings and standing stones. I did originally have a part in the script on a study. Basically, the most intricate rock in the UK sit nearest known route-ways. Probably more effort = bigger audience expected
Well said. These signs and symbols are very ancient indeed. Some of them represent actual night sky images other are attempting to express ideas about the relations among these images. The hole (cup) and ring relates to two specific "constellations", sometimes represented as two concentric circles. These were conceptualized as the celestial vagina symbolized by terrestial female vagina and there is a specific reason for them to have made this association. Later the vagina was symbolised by differents vessels, especail water or burial pots. Several concentric circles are not "cup and ring" but may symbolise two different ideas. The first is that these reflect "levels" at which celestial images where seen, they are a two dimential representation of a 3D sky space, for example, think of a wall, you have a bottom part, a middle part and top part and you can draw three lines to represent these levels. The second idea that several concencentric circles represents is that of counting, that is, the mqny times certain sky phenomena came around. Scattered potholes can represent counting of specific images and when scattered, these reflect the stars. Churchward, a Mason, published a book on signs and symbols from around world and rightfully claimed these emerged from Africa but ascribed ridiculously long periods of years to their emergence. These signs and symbols are the archetype for tge development of later signs and symbols of various cultures and their cultural expressions, ideas and traditions which were also captured in stories which formed the basis of myths, folktales, legends which further evolved into what we now call religion and esoterism.
Roughting Linn near Doddington, Northumberland is a fantastic place for a visit. Cup and Ring markings a stones throw from a waterfall and five miles from the Duddo Five Stones stone circle.
Great video. Only at the end, when reaching for the 'Like' button did I realise it was so hot off the press. Now intrigued, I want to see the video that bombed!
@@susannelambropoulos6185 We hear relatively little about the German / Austrian Neolithic here in Britain. Wish there was more English language info out there in it!
@@susannelambropoulos6185 How far is Rhaetia from you? (Though you may be interested to know that there are hieroglyphs found as far away as Australia - not placed there recently).
Greetings from Finland with some relating videos and further speculation. Also, thank you for the landscapes: "Rock Art of the White Sea - Exhibition at Ulsan Museum", "JÄTINKIRKKO - Mitä nämä on ja miksi ne rakennettiin?", "Jatulintarha Miehikkälä Ylikorvenkangas", "Saaristo-Suomen jatulintarhat (Vox Turku K1J2)", "Labyrinth - What does the Troy town symbol mean?", "Turun monet linnat // The Many Castles of Turku", "Carved rock art at Tanum - Sweden", "The Seal Hunters - the linguistic traces of ancient Scandinavia", "Were Homer's Epics Born in the North? Unraveling the Baltic and Scandinavian Roots of Odysseus", "Timon taipale Mystinen kuppikivi", "Finnish Sorcery Traditions", "Kuppikivien energia, energy of the cupstones", "Spirit(s) of the Sauna: Seen and Unseen Beings in Finnish Folklore", "Karelian Magic - 1920", "Taivaannaula - Pyhyyttä luonnosta, voimaa perinteistä", "Pagan Tree Worship in Finland", "Joseph Campbell - Cave Bears and the Birth of Mythology", "The Great Cosmic Hunt, the Oldest Story Known to Mankind" and "Finnish Paganism 5/5"..
The spiral was also used in Denmark in bronze age, ,because I have Found 2 Buttoms from bronze age with spiral on. Thanks so much for the video and info
If we come across cup and ring marks here in Australia, they are assumed to be stone tool sharpening spots. Making a slurry rock dust out of the material from the bored cups mixed with water can provide an effective polishing medium.
Ruston Monolith is well east being near Bridlington. The Devil's Arrows at Boroughbridge on the A1 are not exactly west. There is also a little known standing stone 1/2 away from one of the concentric rings you featured twice at Agra, in Colsterdale on the very eastern edge of the Pennines.
Ah, if only I had asked the author of the popular “Yorkshire’s Prehistoric Monuments”. Oh wait - I am him! There are certainly standing stones in Yorkshire, and some in Kent and Northumbria - but far, far fewer. AND, those that exist are more associated with the Early Neolithic and Early Bronze Age - not the mid-to-late Neolithic, when most of the west coast examples were erected.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson I wasn't calling you out, just surprised that those had not been mentioned. I alerted archaeological surveyor Tim Lawrie to the existence of the Agra group and together we plotted & recorded most of the stones.
The spirals are repeated all around the world. The giant desert figures in Nazca, Peru include double spirals. They encapsulate the method of growth, layer upon layer. At Nazca it is postulated the lines were used for sombre single file ceremonies.
@@AndyJarman hm, well I do remember drawing spirals when I was a young child. It’s such a simple shape, I would imagine everyone has at least traced it before. Easy coincidence
This was a very well put together Video , the ammount of information here was so well put together , keep up the great work my Friend , so informative .🙂👍🙏
The ring marks are also in the desert in America around where the Anastazi were (refer Desert Drifter Utube channel). The Hopi indians believe thecspirals mean "the people were here"
@@maxinemontgomery9162 I suppose it’s a universally easy set of symbols to carve. Give a child a pen and paper, and they’ll probably scribble a few spirals and circles.
Please look into the Tohono O'odham people in AZ/Southwest USA. Their symbol is "the man in the maze" and has been for???? 10, 000 years or more. Similar to the first picture or so that you showed.
Not really similar: Those man-in-the-maze patterns are - as you know - similar to the mazes found across the world (although notably absent from Australia, New Zealand, China and sub-Saharan Africa except Ethiopia), which are constructed by geometric algorithms topologically related to evolutes. A graffitto in Strabiniana Street, Pompeii, was labelled "labyrinthus hic habitat Minotaurus" in c. 79 AD, and there is one exactly like it in an adobe lodge in Arizona - as well as on a clay tablet found in Pylos, Greece. The same squared-off algorithmic design has been used recently on traditional Navajo blankets. One algorithm variant can be used to construct those patterns to fit around a central field. Examples include numerous Roman tesselated pavements (rectangular to fit rectangular rooms in rectangular buildings in rectangular street-patterns which were oriented, so those mazes are oriented, too). The same type has been found in the USA. The number of possible designs is infinite within constraints mathematically described by the Catalan Series. In the specific type that you mention, the construction algorithm is a variant which makes it possible to weave the pattern into a tray or bowl such those made by Pima. They are woven around a spiral, which severely limits freedom for design variation. The algorithm used to make the more widely occurring evolute type can make infinite different designs around the vertices and internal arcs of any regular constructable circumsection. The designs converge on two types of attractor, - spirals and cardioids - at opposite extremes of their range. Mazes with different patterns made by the same algorithm are found in Nazca, Peru, Madras, India, and on skerries of the Baltic and White seas, and in many other places. Taken as a group, the above pattern types are - geometrically - much more closely related to key-pattern meanders and to swastika mandalas than to cup-and-ring marks (although the two are found together as petroglyphs in Pontevedra, Spain). Contextual analysis suggests that they symbolised the chthonic path, and this seems to be confirmed by one built into the foundations of the tholos at Epidavros, Greece - physically occupying the plane separating Cthon and Antichthon. Their use in magic in Africa, India, and Sweden is consistent with exorcism, and the myths are thematically consistent with use as incantations (in the yantra-mantra-puja type of sympathetic magic). There is a later, specifically Christian, analogue labelled "laborintus" on Mappa Mundi, Hereford Cathedral, England. The various designs always include elements made by the algorithms that I have mentioned above... but these mazes are oriented. Also paths are turned back at the cardinal directions (as represented on T O maps of the Middle Ages) to depict an undrawn cross. This disrupts the pattern-grammar, thus the entirety of each design is not algorithmically constructed, but is governed by a schema in a similar way to using geometric shapes - such as the triangle or pentagon, or proportions such as the double square or golden ratio - to aid composition of a landscape painting. Both groups of mazes are co-located with types of computus - in Christianity for the determination of the date of Easter and thus with an eclipse, whereas the narrative of Mahabharata links the construction of Cakra-Vyuha (depicted as a maze) with an eclipse. Baltic petroglyphs depicting a computus with a maze link their occurence to a known method of predicting tide times, but the use of the maze - if it is also a computus - is not known. So... not cup-and-ring marks... different rabbit-hole. Catalogue: "Labyrinthe" Hermann Kern, Prestel Verlag, Germany (and translations) Best libraries: University of Uppsala, Sweden; Gotland Museum, Visby, Gotland, Sweden.
@@lindsayheyes925 Well, that's over my head; I just thought they were cool to be so far away from each other yet look similar AND have meaning to more than one culture. (I remember also when the pyramids were said to be happenstance similar.) If memory serves, and it may not, I was told saguaro cacti are found those same 2 places in the world. Thank you; I'll reread for understanding. Respect!
@@loriwooten5249 You might find their non-geometric analogues interesting too: Magic squares, Ba Gua, acrostic rectangles and latin word-squares, beheadments and literary labyrinths of ambiguity, mystic roses, certain mandalas and some Western esoterica. Chaucer's "The Merchaunte's Tale" is a shaggy-dog story in which the punch line is a pun on the word "mase". The entire tale is a maze analogue which is signalled throughout the text. Rabbit-holes...
Very informative. Based on my personal experiences, the markings are remnants of Neolithic algebra students: because they all look like my notes after a rousing lecture on order of operations.
Bravo! This is my equal favourite of your videos, along with your Jam video! I'd be very interested to know of any focussed resources for the blue regions in the map at 15:21, in particular the Cumbrian and North York Moors/Fylingdales Moor regions! On an aside, I love how the blue regions of the map support Cunliffe and Koch's "Celtic from the West" theory, which given Barry's tendency to push the period backwards even further, conflates quite well with these starting circa 4000 BC!
@@harrisonofthenorth ah - well - I do have two books that cover those areas. Fylingdales, there’s a good report by Blaise Vyner. And Cumbria, there are a few books, and a massive report from 2019 - “After the Axes” by Richard Bradley et al. This video is very surface level, so I suggest reading on those areas if interested
Australian Aboriginal people made wells in rock … perhaps some of the inexplicable rock holes were made to catch water. Admittedly water was way more plentiful in the UK but anyhoo… still might apply :) Pre-pottery if there is such a thing. The spiral motif is common to so many diverse peoples. Must have some deep connection to the human psyche. Lovely video … wonderful to learn more about British petroglyphs.
Thank you for this Adam, I live in the North West (Lancashire) and only over the last three years or so I have become intrigued by all the Stone Circles, Henges, standing stones and the art work inscribed on them, and have now visited quite a few from North to South, Avebury, Stanton Drew, up to Castlerigg and many in between, I know there are hundreds all over Britain and perhaps many now built over. Wherever I go now in Britain I seek out any nearby to visit, next on my list is Mayburgh Henge. Somehow I have become fascinated with them and presentations like yours further add to my knowledge of this megalithic mystery, and I’m sure many others like me. Thanks again.
@@B50Stevie Thanks! Really appreciate it. There actually aren’t hundreds of them! The people making those lists mistake Bronze Age funerary sites and damaged burial mounds (with left kerb stones) as stone circles. In reality, there are 40 or so mid-to-late megalithic stone circles, intended for ritual enclosure. Not ever circle of stone IS a stone circle!
The spirals represent years... one revolution is 10 years. if those are grave markers they show someone 50-60 years old buried there. the circles with lines connecting them are the lineage in a family tree. cups were used as plates/bowls or used food prep/ storage (the divits are arranged like a table setting) what are the odds of this being recreational "art"?, most likely a family or tribal claim markers. or not 8)
Reference the lack of stone circles in Eastern England, could this not be just simply down to the lack of stones? The circles in this case would likely be of wood, similar to the reason we in the west have the remnants of houses with stone walls, whilst the east used wood. As for cups and spiral motifs, there are cups on Dartmoor and spirals in North Cornwall, the lack of more than a few is probably down to them not having been found yet, quarrying or as in at least one case I know of built into a wall 200+ years ago. Interesting video which has given me food for thought.
Are they maps? Some of the markings look like hill forts or enclosures? Maybe the breaks in the circles are rivers or other obstructions....be interesting to map the local sites of a similar age and see if there is any correlation, wish I had the time!
I have idea, maybe this rock art is drawing of map of shrines on open on maybe some ancient route and showing their meaning of power with many eclectic circles.
I wonder how many of those green stone axes found their way to Europe and farther away to the trade network of the neo lithic period. Man has always been a travel and trade species. Cheers
@@cargilekm I don’t know if there are many (or any identified). Though, there are a LOT of jadeite axes from the Swiss Alps found across Britain, so trade was happening
That's definitely not his actual voice. He's definitely trying to adopt that public school sound, like Johnson, but it's hugely annoying! Just speak normally, man, for god's sake!
Who cares. As long as it isn't an AI voice or some cackling lunatic and the person pronounces words correctly, a voice is a voice. I rather like this deep voice.
Thanks for such a useful summary of the cultural implications. Wallace demonstrated the value of distribution maps of fauna, flora and people when he used it to deduce a theory of evolution - and Darwin wasn't going to publish hjs own findings until Wallace's findings prodded him. One thing: I was struck by the resemblance of some cup mark arrangements to the board used for African game called Mancala. The Mancala board can be used with tokens such as pebbles, shells and balls of dried dung in the role of an abacus, but using Ancient Egyptian binary mathematical method (its use in intercalation is inferred in the mythology about Thoth). Practicing manipulation in tge game makes its use in maths very fast, and the method includes a check-sum for accuracy.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson I wrote a short paper on it for the Open University History of Mathematics Course. It was all known previously, I just drew the threads together from different disciplines.
These can be found in North America as well. Personally, I think the Thunderbolts Project is on to something regarding these symbols as literally what they were seeing in the heavens at that time. There was a great disturbance of electromagnetism in the atmosphere which produced plasma in glow mode, or 1000s of "plasmoids". The spiral is a classic plasmoid we can recreate in a lab. These preceeded a great catastrophe, after which the Earth changed. When the time of the megaliths was over. Something drastically changed in the Earth. Possibly even gravity itself, because gravity is an electromagnetic force.
@@kimberlyboldt5213 ah - you may want to watch the video! I discuss this to an extent. Most cup marks in the USA are connected to grain and tool production. Spirals etc are obviously artistic though, but a common and easy motif!
Swedish archaeologists have found that some of their cup marks had been smeared with animal fat way back... But I admit I am not sure what that means. They could have done that in a process to polish the cups or they could have stored something in them for a ritual (maybe face paint or something edible for a ritual? Even if that was the case, we can't carbon date molecular traces for date and neither can we say when the cups were first made either, unless maybe in cases where they included in the art as we see in some cases in Tanums Hede, where the art around them dates to mid Scandinavian bronze age. So someone later could have reused them. Even with the cups in the bronze age petroglyphs, they could have been there first but it kinda hints to them still being made around that time. That doesn't mean they weren't a thing people made back in the Neolithic, but they were likely in use for a long time.
One thing that struck me when you show the map of the different traditions in the uk and. Ireland is that the west side is much more mountainous and rocky than the far east and south of England. Perhaps it doesn’t mean anything but it’s what occurred as soon as I saw that map.
@@angusarmstrong6526 It could very well be geological - as those mountains have the stone needed for creation of monuments and rock art. Though, I would still suggest cultural, and the east / west divide is visible in the STYLE of monuments and rock art
Good overview. Can you tell if the cup and ring marks are mainly in the horizontal? If so, the multi ringed ones might well be used for separating grain from the rest of the plants (threshing) and/or grinding the grain. Would it be possible to make a copy of an unweathered example and test various hypothezises? Would give a great vid! 😊
Could be, but honestly, the ring marks are often very complex and abstract - almost certainly art. They COULD be later additions to cup marks, which once had a practical function (e.g dust for polishing axes)
"Symbolises the sun, and the moon". Or maybe the ripples in the puddle right next to it... maybe that puddle was there before the petroglyphs. I can't tell you how glad I am that you didn't go down that rabbit-hole.
Look at the Neolithic settlement patterns - those who moved from Jutland- Frisia to Northumbria and North, and the other Atlantic path from NW Spain, W France and up through the Irish Sea
In 2016 I spent several days in Northumberland, searching for "cup and ring" symbols. I could not find any, even in locations that are marked on maps. I woukd like to try again.
North west Sutherland has a smattering. Portugal has many cup marked stones. Possibly celestial maps, as they often are carved on outcrops facing skyward. Liverpool's Calderstone Stone Circle has spirals, while standing stones its suburbs have cup and ring marks. There should be a data base of all the sites of carved stones across Europe.
@@yarlkymcfirblatherington9879 My map of Irish Passage Tomb Art does show the Calderatones. They’re spirals and footprints, not typical for cup and ring. Plus, they were within a passage tomb originally! One of the many examples on the west coast, melding cup and ring and passage tomb art
Thank you for doing what you do. I'm a drystone waller and sculptor. Part of me thinks I'm reincarnated from my neolithic self 😆. I have always been drawn to our ancient stones and henges. It seems so close, and yet.......
@@vamboroolz1612 I show some Scottish examples, and it is included on the map. The north of Scotland, like some of the more mountainous regions of England / Wales, was not home to a widespread culture of cup and rings.
What a wonderful video!😊 Very knowneldgeable. I think all these stone carvings were some mind of road signs or place plates. Maybe some kind of cult was practised here?
@@AdamMorganIbbotson amazing. For me history traced in stone is really fascinating. Tell you why. I live (and my ancestors did, too) in area in Poland where there are many traces of earlier eons. And of early human activity. This is Góry Świętokrzyskie. Just one stroll in place they are just building a road and you find interesting fossils. Beside of this, I would enumerate several places where prehistoric people lived like Jaskinia Raj/Paradise Cage. Worth to see.
Thanks for this interesting video. To understand our ancestral knowledge and symbolism, we logically have to investigate tis under natural conditions what they observed day and night throughout the seasons. ----- In 3:02 you have a recognizable carving of the three Orion Belt stars. ----- When observing the seemingly revolving stars and star constellations over some time, you naturally observe the Earth's celestial axis points around which all stars, constellations, and the contours of the Milky Way revolves. This scenario naturally provides the central cupmark and concentric rings symbolism. A scenario you also can get by making a long time photo of a clear night sky in the darker seasons. Best Wishes Ivar Nielsen Comparative Mythologist & Natural Philosopher Denmark
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Not at all. The three belt stars are significant by its two larger cupmarks and one smaller, slightly out of line with the two larger ones. Just like you can observed with your own eyes as our ancestors did.
@@ivornelsson2238 If any one of the three are slightly off line it would appear that way. It’s not necessarily purposeful. AND, the rock’s been broken on the art
Loving these videos. Out of interest, how much clearer would these markings have been 5000 years ago? And speculatively, how long would one take to carve?
@@thatsilvesterchap depends on the rock type! Igneous rock is harder to weather! But all of it to some extent I imagine! Look at any Medieval church, and compare it to a Victorian one, even slight weathering makes a huge difference
People travelled far and wide in the distant past. Think of all the epic odessey stories that exist. That is because people did travel, and well, it took a long time. Most were far far more uneventful, luckily. There is supposed to be a ley line running up from Glastonbury through where the Old Meg stone is. So people would travel far from the continent and Ireland. For the mystery on what the symbols mean. As they are symbols, not text, you just look at them and have an intuitive understanding of what the makers were referring to. Generally they refer to unchanging aspects of our reality and how we as humans see/experience them. The core subject is consistent across the world. Just becuase they do not look exactly the same does not mean they are not referring to the same thing. Not ideal for scientists, but that is the nature of symbols. They were not written about, because of the whole persecution / stake burning / zealous mob thingy.
@@gdr189 thanks. You’re very cryptic though! What do they mean then exactly? Also, where did you first learn about ‘ley lines’. I’m planning to make a video in the concept, and am constantly shocked people today still believe in their existence considering their history.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson 'They' was referring to symbols relating to sprituality /religion in general. It is hard to discuss without writing a mass of text and sounding like someone with a wall covered in newspaper clippings and scribbles. I guess I wrote it in a 'if you know, you know' style as it was easier. Various shapes have had similar meaning across time and geography. For example, Snakes (sqiggles/sawtooth) and knowledge, time, life/death/rebirth: 'Aztec double headed serpant for time, an ouroboros and 'infinity', a Caduceus 'life/death', Abraxas with snake legs meaning knowledge controlling the wild nature of man (oxen), serpent mound in Ohio, the Norse Jörmungandr as 'World Serpent', the ancient Greek Orphic egg, Kundalini from Hinduism etc. The common square/circle/triangle related to world/reality, human, higher powers, think 'squaring the circle' to six pointed star from triangle up / down. Host of other shapes from crosses / swastikas / crescents / spirals. I don't know much about ley lines, but I know enough to not disregard. There is enough science around to start connecting dots and make a decent/interesting hypothesis. We know the earth purely as a galactic body, has a huge amount of energy. People such as Buckminster Fuller have pointed us to geometry having (moving) energy as tensile/compressive forces. Cymatic patterns forming within sound which is again, energy moving through the air.
Northumberland is a good place to find those Cup and Ring stones but strangely western Co Durham seems pretty much devoid of them unless peat has covered them.Some but not many in the northern part of Yorkshire.I think that they are images seen in trance states.If you look at Australian Aboriginal rock paintings of spirit beings they are very similar.
@@kevanhubbard9673 Could be the geography - as Yorkshire does have them where rock is exposed. So a cultural region, but only where there is exposed rock. Could also be down to farming practices destroying them! Durham was a hotbed of medieval activity!
The fine views only became beautiful after humans defiled the rest of the scene with their civilized changes. Enclosures and fences and farmsteads tend to take the bloom of the rose. To them, prehistory people, the view was just the view. It was probably everywhere. Now we see the beauty in the rare vistas and appreciate unspoiled views. Our ancestor spoiled the views in order to survive and grow. Sorry, I have had a nice bottle of sweet strawberry wine and it makes me talkative. Cheers
@@cargilekm Good points - though it was more likely the industrial chimneys than any enclosures. The Neolithic landscape was mostly enclosed and deforested - as farming required constant movement to source fertile soils prior to advanced farming techniques. Britain was at minimum forestation during the Bronze Age!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson well, I don’t know. But the ones with multiple layers like my local site is very reminiscent of the pictographs you shared at the beginning of your video. And when you described Stone Age technology you basically explained how we think the hillfort was made, by piling up rocks. I’ve long believed it to be a religious site as we have half a dozen ring forts nearby in defensive locations high up and yet our ‘hillfort’ sits on a plain overlooked by them, and I know of no freshwater source nearby.
Is the apparent split in cultures between east and west Britain really a cultural split and not just a geological one? Certainly in East Anglia there is no hard rock to decorate, and any decoration applied to the posts of eg Wood Hedge haven’t survived. Do we have an absence of evidence rather than evidence of absence?
@@sevencranes That would assume there are no rocks to carve in East Anglia. Even if they were perishable in some way, buried examples would survive. Only small cultural differences would be needed to make decorative styles differ
@@AdamMorganIbbotson fair. Is it worth investigating whether there are rock artefacts of any description in East Anglia (other than flint)? (There are the Grimes Graves artefacts, but these seem to be the only ones from the area). If there are then that would give an indication that suitable rock exists but there isn’t any rock art. If there aren’t, then that might suggests that there isn’t any survivable rock. Underlying geology of much of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire is limestone/sandstone. There isn’t any igneous/metamorphic rock that I’m aware of, tho not my area or expertise, so happy to be corrected.
@@sevencranes well, Anglia is a specific example, as it was probably marsh / bog. It may also have had a lower population - so you’re right, it may be geographical. There ARE very old monuments, called the ‘Medway Megaliths’ nearby in Kent. But those are outliers
@@AdamMorganIbbotson I can’t cite anything (so take with a pinch of salt) but I think EA was reasonably well populated in the Neolithic. The wet areas are largely restricted to the Broads and the Fens, and the latter has a whole series of causeway enclosures around the margins. And there where the two henges found at Holme (seahenge). There’s a henge monument on the outskirts of Norwich (Arminghall), tho not sure if that’s Neolithic or Bronze Age. Not much survives inland, but suspect that’s because it’s always been good agricultural land. Interesting debate, and love the videos :)
Thanks! I am sick of him, and discussion around him, too. That’s actually what the video is about! It got terrible engagement because people thumbs downed it thinking I was arguing for / against him. ALSO - new edition of my Cumbria book out this October, with 40+ new sites, and improvements all around!
Great video, thank you🙏🙏. If these symbols are found across the world, especially where it is 'art', and not just the most practical tool/food making process, there has to be a unifying source. This source, MUST have had enough power/influence/dominance to have contacts across the world, via both land & sea. We have to bear in mind though coastlines at the time were far different than today. I'd propose an 'Atlantean' type of civilisation, the most dominant in technology/religion at the time, that had spread it's influence over the world. They would have the power to do this, whilst tribes at the edge of contact would be far more primitive. This is just like we have today, some countries can launch objects/people into space, whilst others have barely any contact & live a far more primitive/isolated lifestyle, but both live side by side. The rings symbol with the straight line (@ 11.30) is found all over the earth, & sounds very similar to the Atlantean story of their port city surrounded by 'rings' of water & walls. The 'Atlanteans' claimed to be descended from the race that had come from the 'stars'. What better way than to use a plan view of the most important city on earth (it also denotes the power of either flight, maths, civilization, technology, city planning etc), to show your people's link to this? This is no different to later Kings/Pharaohs claiming to be descendants of X/Y/Z great rulers or 'Divine' sources before. The whole thing back then about both 'primitive' peoples & other 'advanced' civilizations is their rulers & peoples relationship/lineage with the afterlife, & 'highest powers/creators'. After the Younger Dryas disaster around 9500 BC, the great flood/300ft higher water levels in a few years, survivors would wish to trace their lineage back to the most culturally/technologically advanced civilization they knew, especially if they were hoping for some sort of rescue. The Irish have a legend about a race of advanced culturally & technologically red headed people who came from the sea, & settled in Ireland (along with the peoples who were already there). Their leader carried a large trident as his symbol of power (which has similarities with Poseidon of Greek myth - again, what is the original story source?). Did this give them a cultural advantage which let their symbols be used on the neighbouring lands later? TBH, I cannot say if this legend, if true, represents a 'Sea Peoples' invasion around 1170BC, or refugees of the 9500BC event, but as the Greeks knew of 'Poseidon' of up to 2000 years earlier than the 'Sea Peoples', it may suggest the latter. 'Atlantis' was also said to be Poseidon's city. So, this would give us people coming from a ringed port city, integrating with original tribes - how could they record this for future generations, & in what material? All other advanced civilisations have used stone....I'm not saying this is true, but is interesting. It's being/been proved that cultures & peoples all over the world knew about each other way before the historical narrative. Cut marks on bones 95,000 years old in North America, & Gobekli Tepe buildings (& the other Tepe sites) in Turkey alone have proved that people were living in areas previously unknown about, & far more advanced, at least 3500 years earlier than thought possible, & that they also possibly show the Younger Dryas cataclysm. This event would be carried down, talked about & symbolised by all peoples of the earth, both to record it, but also as a warning to future generations. Do these carved symbols attempt to show all this - city of Atlantis, maps of other main cities disasters?
@@eric-wb7gj Thanks for your comment - glad you enjoyed the video! But… I’d suggest you bin your Graham Hancock books. He’s a bore, who has no evidence, and talks complete nonsense.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Thank you for your reply. I don't have any G.Hancock books. I know he proposes an ancient civilisation, that's it. I look at all the photos of ancient buildings from across the world, from cultures which supposedly had no contact, according to historical narrative, which somehow still have the same architecture - How?! Like your 'swirls' they appear across the world. This gives only 2 possibilities - You've either got some remarkable coincidences, almost impossible, or there was an initial source. With historical narrative, we can go from hunter gatherers to landing on the moon in only 6k years. As we have actually found earlier settlements than historical narrative of thousands of years (& more keep getting found), & Younger Dryas event has been proven at 9500BC, it makes sense that somewhere an advanced civilisation 'could' have appeared, but been lost. Even now, our major cities are built on coastline. I'm not talking about spaceships, lasers etc, but just with enough technology to have ships/trade go around the world. This can be done with wooden or reed ships (which has already been proved).
@@eric-wb7gj Apologies, I assumed you were a Hancock fan as the Younger Dryas lost civilisation narrative was / is his idea. Or, he’s where that ship sails from anyway. Others who profit off spreading those ideas (lots of CZcamsrs / conspiracy theorists) use that idea like it’s fact - but it’s not. Re. the similarities between symbols globally - there are FAR simpler theories on why such carvings are found around the globe. For one, spirals, circles, and dots are such basic designs, that even children doodle them without inspiration. You don’t need an ancient Atlantian to give you that idea. Secondly, cup marks may represent some as-of-yet unknown practice, and not art. Basically, there’s absolutely no need bring in a lost civilisation, and there is literally, genuinely, zero evidence for the existence of such a thing. Feel free to believe it, but it’s probably not true! Sorry!!
South east part of England has much less stone geology, Norfolk has really only flint nodules, Suffolk has next to no stone accessible ( except crumbly septaria only good for walls ), an obvious reason why no rock art is evident so if the motifs were produced around here it would've been on perishable materials. For example there's evidence of a wood henge near Norwich so the henge culture certainly existed there but no stone to use for one. Plus the flint export industry was huge out of East Anglia & it's been found all overy the British Isles so there would have been massive cultural interchange along with the exchange market for centuries.
@@gleeart While the geology may play a part, there are still stone tools and monuments in the south. The fact that there is no rock art there, even buried, is curious. And, the wooden coastal ‘henges’ are far later - Bronze Age, not mid-to-late Neolithic
I don't know why this video came up for me I certainly not used to watch things like this. "..these early Europeans.." Seriously??? 4000 years ago? They have found rockart and jewellery that are 40000 years old, in France, Germany etc. I could call them, who made that, the early Europeans. Or should we consider maybe the Neanderthals...? These cupmarks and circles and spirals are everywhere, literally everywhere. They could be 4000, 9000 or 20000 years old. They look all the same. Wonder what "genius" came up with the idea to 'date" them to a certain time period? No one can be able to do that. I don't take "We know" or "There are lots of evidence" as an answer. No. We don't know. There is no evidence of anything. We can look at them, and wonder, but that's all. It's always better to admit, "We don't know"
@@susannebrunberg4174 fair enough! It’s all semantics really, as I’d say anything prehistoric is early! Re. Dating, there is a LOT of evidence that standing stones / megalithic tombs are mid-to-late Neolithic. Carbon-14 dating for one. Even Graham Hancock won’t touch the UK, because the dating evidence is so strong
So wanted to watch this but had to turn off due to the dreadful “ Boris Johnson Voice Impersonation “ when out in the field. Shame you did that as I’m sure it was fascinating.
@@macinthewild8116 I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water Mac - despite my presenter’s awful Boris Johnson impression, I think it’s well worth a watch!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Get a clear picture of say Easter island head, cover the mouth what do you see. I can tell your very passionate and I didn't mean any offence just been looking into this stuff for a very long time and I've come in MHO to a psychonaut conclusion.
do not let any one tell you what these are then you go on to argue against said common thesis soo we cant belive you either lol mate get educated and put out content not pish
You'd make a great voice actor for a 40K ork :)
Thanks, I appreciate that...
Genevieve von Petzinger found 32 rock symbols, painted (some carved) across Europe from 40k to 10k yrs ago, & ending as megaliths and millstones/agriculture began. Some of these symbols are found on all continents bar Antarctica, but 16 are still in use along Australia's Song Lines, being key to how Aborigines (with no agriculture) navigate the Outback.
Navigation may have been very important, for both carvings and standing stones. I did originally have a part in the script on a study. Basically, the most intricate rock in the UK sit nearest known route-ways. Probably more effort = bigger audience expected
Well said. These signs and symbols are very ancient indeed. Some of them represent actual night sky images other are attempting to express ideas about the relations among these images. The hole (cup) and ring relates to two specific "constellations", sometimes represented as two concentric circles. These were conceptualized as the celestial vagina symbolized by terrestial female vagina and there is a specific reason for them to have made this association. Later the vagina was symbolised by differents vessels, especail water or burial pots. Several concentric circles are not "cup and ring" but may symbolise two different ideas. The first is that these reflect "levels" at which celestial images where seen, they are a two dimential representation of a 3D sky space, for example, think of a wall, you have a bottom part, a middle part and top part and you can draw three lines to represent these levels. The second idea that several concencentric circles represents is that of counting, that is, the mqny times certain sky phenomena came around. Scattered potholes can represent counting of specific images and when scattered, these reflect the stars. Churchward, a Mason, published a book on signs and symbols from around world and rightfully claimed these emerged from Africa but ascribed ridiculously long periods of years to their emergence. These signs and symbols are the archetype for tge development of later signs and symbols of various cultures and their cultural expressions, ideas and traditions which were also captured in stories which formed the basis of myths, folktales, legends which further evolved into what we now call religion and esoterism.
Roughting Linn near Doddington, Northumberland is a fantastic place for a visit. Cup and Ring markings a stones throw from a waterfall and five miles from the Duddo Five Stones stone circle.
@@ChrisN1973 an amazing site, and the Five Stones are a weird and wonderful site too
Great video. Only at the end, when reaching for the 'Like' button did I realise it was so hot off the press. Now intrigued, I want to see the video that bombed!
@@alan- I hope you and a few thousand others do that! Controversial topic = bad engagement for a small channel.
Where I live in eastern Austria you also can find stones with cupmarks, stone rings, kist tombs, gate stones and passage stones. ..
@@susannelambropoulos6185 We hear relatively little about the German / Austrian Neolithic here in Britain. Wish there was more English language info out there in it!
Do you have any hieroglyphs ?
@@megw7312 whaaaaaat? Austria, not Egypt
@@susannelambropoulos6185 How far is Rhaetia from you? (Though you may be interested to know that there are hieroglyphs found as far away as Australia - not placed there recently).
@@AdamMorganIbbotson yes.. Sorry!
Very interesting and well put together, this subject has all ways fascinated me
@@Traveler13 wow - that was fast! Really glad you enjoyed the video :)
Just caught it right
Greetings from Finland with some relating videos and further speculation. Also, thank you for the landscapes: "Rock Art of the White Sea - Exhibition at Ulsan Museum", "JÄTINKIRKKO - Mitä nämä on ja miksi ne rakennettiin?", "Jatulintarha Miehikkälä Ylikorvenkangas", "Saaristo-Suomen jatulintarhat (Vox Turku K1J2)", "Labyrinth - What does the Troy town symbol mean?", "Turun monet linnat // The Many Castles of Turku", "Carved rock art at Tanum - Sweden", "The Seal Hunters - the linguistic traces of ancient Scandinavia", "Were Homer's Epics Born in the North? Unraveling the Baltic and Scandinavian Roots of Odysseus", "Timon taipale Mystinen kuppikivi", "Finnish Sorcery Traditions", "Kuppikivien energia, energy of the cupstones", "Spirit(s) of the Sauna: Seen and Unseen Beings in Finnish Folklore", "Karelian Magic - 1920", "Taivaannaula - Pyhyyttä luonnosta, voimaa perinteistä", "Pagan Tree Worship in Finland", "Joseph Campbell - Cave Bears and the Birth of Mythology", "The Great Cosmic Hunt, the Oldest Story Known to Mankind" and "Finnish Paganism 5/5"..
Brilliant, glad you enjoyed the video!
This is brilliant. I have been wondering about this for a while and I am so glad you have put the work in! Defo subbed here. Thank you.
@@fillyfresh many thanks!
The spiral was also used in Denmark in bronze age, ,because I have Found 2 Buttoms from bronze age with spiral on.
Thanks so much for the video and info
@@Henrikbuitenhuis the spiral is a universal symbol. Give a child under 5 a crayon and paper, and they’ll draw a spiral
Great video - very informative and really like the care taken in it's assembly and visual choices right down to the great font and animated paintings.
Thanks! Really appreciate it
thank you great vid Been to many of the sights you mentioned but always good to hear thoughts ideas and possible connections
Narrator: Why on Earth is it here, in the Northwest of England?
French knight: Mind your own business!
If we come across cup and ring marks here in Australia, they are assumed to be stone tool sharpening spots.
Making a slurry rock dust out of the material from the bored cups mixed with water can provide an effective polishing medium.
@@AndyJarman that could well be the case here. Though again, those rings and decorative elements wouldn’t fit
On the top of the T shaped stones in GobekliTepe you can see the same cup marks
@@gkidd1963 true!
Ruston Monolith is well east being near Bridlington. The Devil's Arrows at Boroughbridge on the A1 are not exactly west. There is also a little known standing stone 1/2 away from one of the concentric rings you featured twice at Agra, in Colsterdale on the very eastern edge of the Pennines.
Ah, if only I had asked the author of the popular “Yorkshire’s Prehistoric Monuments”. Oh wait - I am him!
There are certainly standing stones in Yorkshire, and some in Kent and Northumbria - but far, far fewer. AND, those that exist are more associated with the Early Neolithic and Early Bronze Age - not the mid-to-late Neolithic, when most of the west coast examples were erected.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson I wasn't calling you out, just surprised that those had not been mentioned. I alerted archaeological surveyor Tim Lawrie to the existence of the Agra group and together we plotted & recorded most of the stones.
@@neilmcintosh1200 don’t worry, I know you weren’t! The Agra art is potentially the best in Yorkshire - so an amazing discovery!
The spirals are repeated all around the world. The giant desert figures in Nazca, Peru include double spirals. They encapsulate the method of growth, layer upon layer. At Nazca it is postulated the lines were used for sombre single file ceremonies.
@@AndyJarman hm, well I do remember drawing spirals when I was a young child. It’s such a simple shape, I would imagine everyone has at least traced it before. Easy coincidence
This was a very well put together Video , the ammount of information here was so well put together , keep up the great work my Friend , so informative .🙂👍🙏
Thanks for the support!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Anytime Pal .
As a small CZcams creator, it always stinks when a video bombs. Thank you for your work.
@@alecjones7299 thanks!
The ring marks are also in the desert in America around where the Anastazi were (refer Desert Drifter Utube channel). The Hopi indians believe thecspirals mean "the people were here"
@@maxinemontgomery9162 I suppose it’s a universally easy set of symbols to carve. Give a child a pen and paper, and they’ll probably scribble a few spirals and circles.
Please look into the Tohono O'odham people in AZ/Southwest USA. Their symbol is "the man in the maze" and has been for???? 10, 000 years or more. Similar to the first picture or so that you showed.
@@loriwooten5249 thanks, will do
Not really similar:
Those man-in-the-maze patterns are - as you know - similar to the mazes found across the world (although notably absent from Australia, New Zealand, China and sub-Saharan Africa except Ethiopia), which are constructed by geometric algorithms topologically related to evolutes.
A graffitto in Strabiniana Street, Pompeii, was labelled "labyrinthus hic habitat Minotaurus" in c. 79 AD, and there is one exactly like it in an adobe lodge in Arizona - as well as on a clay tablet found in Pylos, Greece. The same squared-off algorithmic design has been used recently on traditional Navajo blankets.
One algorithm variant can be used to construct those patterns to fit around a central field. Examples include numerous Roman tesselated pavements (rectangular to fit rectangular rooms in rectangular buildings in rectangular street-patterns which were oriented, so those mazes are oriented, too). The same type has been found in the USA. The number of possible designs is infinite within constraints mathematically described by the Catalan Series.
In the specific type that you mention, the construction algorithm is a variant which makes it possible to weave the pattern into a tray or bowl such those made by Pima. They are woven around a spiral, which severely limits freedom for design variation.
The algorithm used to make the more widely occurring evolute type can make infinite different designs around the vertices and internal arcs of any regular constructable circumsection. The designs converge on two types of attractor, - spirals and cardioids - at opposite extremes of their range. Mazes with different patterns made by the same algorithm are found in Nazca, Peru, Madras, India, and on skerries of the Baltic and White seas, and in many other places.
Taken as a group, the above pattern types are - geometrically - much more closely related to key-pattern meanders and to swastika mandalas than to cup-and-ring marks (although the two are found together as petroglyphs in Pontevedra, Spain). Contextual analysis suggests that they symbolised the chthonic path, and this seems to be confirmed by one built into the foundations of the tholos at Epidavros, Greece - physically occupying the plane separating Cthon and Antichthon. Their use in magic in Africa, India, and Sweden is consistent with exorcism, and the myths are thematically consistent with use as incantations (in the yantra-mantra-puja type of sympathetic magic).
There is a later, specifically Christian, analogue labelled "laborintus" on Mappa Mundi, Hereford Cathedral, England. The various designs always include elements made by the algorithms that I have mentioned above... but these mazes are oriented. Also paths are turned back at the cardinal directions (as represented on T O maps of the Middle Ages) to depict an undrawn cross. This disrupts the pattern-grammar, thus the entirety of each design is not algorithmically constructed, but is governed by a schema in a similar way to using geometric shapes - such as the triangle or pentagon, or proportions such as the double square or golden ratio - to aid composition of a landscape painting.
Both groups of mazes are co-located with types of computus - in Christianity for the determination of the date of Easter and thus with an eclipse, whereas the narrative of Mahabharata links the construction of Cakra-Vyuha (depicted as a maze) with an eclipse. Baltic petroglyphs depicting a computus with a maze link their occurence to a known method of predicting tide times, but the use of the maze - if it is also a computus - is not known.
So... not cup-and-ring marks... different rabbit-hole.
Catalogue:
"Labyrinthe" Hermann Kern, Prestel Verlag, Germany (and translations)
Best libraries:
University of Uppsala, Sweden;
Gotland Museum, Visby, Gotland, Sweden.
@@lindsayheyes925 Well, that's over my head; I just thought they were cool to be so far away from each other yet look similar AND have meaning to more than one culture. (I remember also when the pyramids were said to be happenstance similar.) If memory serves, and it may not, I was told saguaro cacti are found those same 2 places in the world. Thank you; I'll reread for understanding. Respect!
@@loriwooten5249 You might find their non-geometric analogues interesting too:
Magic squares, Ba Gua, acrostic rectangles and latin word-squares, beheadments and literary labyrinths of ambiguity, mystic roses, certain mandalas and some Western esoterica. Chaucer's "The Merchaunte's Tale" is a shaggy-dog story in which the punch line is a pun on the word "mase". The entire tale is a maze analogue which is signalled throughout the text.
Rabbit-holes...
Absolutely brilliant! Thank you for this informative and thoughtful video. It got me thinking, how little know about our ancestors.
@@janecapon2337 Thanks!
Very informative. Based on my personal experiences, the markings are remnants of Neolithic algebra students: because they all look like my notes after a rousing lecture on order of operations.
My scrawled notes in maths class had a few more cartoon cocks
Bravo! This is my equal favourite of your videos, along with your Jam video! I'd be very interested to know of any focussed resources for the blue regions in the map at 15:21, in particular the Cumbrian and North York Moors/Fylingdales Moor regions! On an aside, I love how the blue regions of the map support Cunliffe and Koch's "Celtic from the West" theory, which given Barry's tendency to push the period backwards even further, conflates quite well with these starting circa 4000 BC!
@@harrisonofthenorth ah - well - I do have two books that cover those areas. Fylingdales, there’s a good report by Blaise Vyner. And Cumbria, there are a few books, and a massive report from 2019 - “After the Axes” by Richard Bradley et al. This video is very surface level, so I suggest reading on those areas if interested
Australian Aboriginal people made wells in rock … perhaps some of the inexplicable rock holes were made to catch water. Admittedly water was way more plentiful in the UK but anyhoo… still might apply :) Pre-pottery if there is such a thing.
The spiral motif is common to so many diverse peoples. Must have some deep connection to the human psyche.
Lovely video … wonderful to learn more about British petroglyphs.
great video, informative and well collated many thanks keep on keeping on
@@biffa1234100 many thanks!
Excellent research and presentation. Just subscribed. Greetings from the beautiful Hudson Valley!
@@neddoucet7779 Thanks! Really appreciate it. You’ve made the best decision of your life! ❤️
Thank you for this Adam, I live in the North West (Lancashire) and only over the last three years or so I have become intrigued by all the Stone Circles, Henges, standing stones and the art work inscribed on them, and have now visited quite a few from North to South, Avebury, Stanton Drew, up to Castlerigg and many in between, I know there are hundreds all over Britain and perhaps many now built over. Wherever I go now in Britain I seek out any nearby to visit, next on my list is Mayburgh Henge. Somehow I have become fascinated with them and presentations like yours further add to my knowledge of this megalithic mystery, and I’m sure many others like me. Thanks again.
@@B50Stevie Thanks! Really appreciate it. There actually aren’t hundreds of them! The people making those lists mistake Bronze Age funerary sites and damaged burial mounds (with left kerb stones) as stone circles. In reality, there are 40 or so mid-to-late megalithic stone circles, intended for ritual enclosure. Not ever circle of stone IS a stone circle!
The spirals represent years... one revolution is 10 years. if those are grave markers they show someone 50-60 years old buried there.
the circles with lines connecting them are the lineage in a family tree. cups were used as plates/bowls or used food prep/ storage (the divits are arranged like a table setting) what are the odds of this being recreational "art"?, most likely a family or tribal claim markers.
or not 8)
@@ReyArteb not a bad idea! Though, I’d like to see someone try to prove it!
Excellent and informative video, Adam. Thanks
@@jamiebooth135 Thanks Jamie
Reference the lack of stone circles in Eastern England, could this not be just simply down to the lack of stones? The circles in this case would likely be of wood, similar to the reason we in the west have the remnants of houses with stone walls, whilst the east used wood. As for cups and spiral motifs, there are cups on Dartmoor and spirals in North Cornwall, the lack of more than a few is probably down to them not having been found yet, quarrying or as in at least one case I know of built into a wall 200+ years ago. Interesting video which has given me food for thought.
Could be, but there ARE carvable stones everywhere. Why this division is in place is not so simple.
Are they maps? Some of the markings look like hill forts or enclosures? Maybe the breaks in the circles are rivers or other obstructions....be interesting to map the local sites of a similar age and see if there is any correlation, wish I had the time!
@@BenPortmanlewes some people do think they’re maps. Some of them do look like enclosures
Awesome, thank you!!!!
Thanks!
I have idea, maybe this rock art is drawing of map of shrines on open on maybe some ancient route and showing their meaning of power with many eclectic circles.
@@RaketicBearwood some archaeologists do think they’re maps!
I wonder how many of those green stone axes found their way to Europe and farther away to the trade network of the neo lithic period. Man has always been a travel and trade species. Cheers
@@cargilekm I don’t know if there are many (or any identified). Though, there are a LOT of jadeite axes from the Swiss Alps found across Britain, so trade was happening
Great vid but what's with the Boris Johnson voice?
@@andystagg7668 my presenter is from the south of England, they sound a bit like Boris Johnson there 👍🏻
That's definitely not his actual voice. He's definitely trying to adopt that public school sound, like Johnson, but it's hugely annoying! Just speak normally, man, for god's sake!
@@Paul-ki7mh I’ll let him know
Who cares. As long as it isn't an AI voice or some cackling lunatic and the person pronounces words correctly, a voice is a voice. I rather like this deep voice.
I think the subject matter happens to be more interesting than someone’s voice, if you can understand what he is saying then there’s no problem.
Thanks for such a useful summary of the cultural implications. Wallace demonstrated the value of distribution maps of fauna, flora and people when he used it to deduce a theory of evolution - and Darwin wasn't going to publish hjs own findings until Wallace's findings prodded him.
One thing:
I was struck by the resemblance of some cup mark arrangements to the board used for African game called Mancala. The Mancala board can be used with tokens such as pebbles, shells and balls of dried dung in the role of an abacus, but using Ancient Egyptian binary mathematical method (its use in intercalation is inferred in the mythology about Thoth).
Practicing manipulation in tge game makes its use in maths very fast, and the method includes a check-sum for accuracy.
@@lindsayheyes925 very interesting AND similar you’re right! Wonder if there’s ever been a connection drawn? Needs an ethnoarchaeologist!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson I wrote a short paper on it for the Open University History of Mathematics Course. It was all known previously, I just drew the threads together from different disciplines.
These can be found in North America as well. Personally, I think the Thunderbolts Project is on to something regarding these symbols as literally what they were seeing in the heavens at that time.
There was a great disturbance of electromagnetism in the atmosphere which produced plasma in glow mode, or 1000s of "plasmoids". The spiral is a classic plasmoid we can recreate in a lab. These preceeded a great catastrophe, after which the Earth changed. When the time of the megaliths was over. Something drastically changed in the Earth. Possibly even gravity itself, because gravity is an electromagnetic force.
@@kimberlyboldt5213 ah - you may want to watch the video! I discuss this to an extent. Most cup marks in the USA are connected to grain and tool production. Spirals etc are obviously artistic though, but a common and easy motif!
Swedish archaeologists have found that some of their cup marks had been smeared with animal fat way back... But I admit I am not sure what that means.
They could have done that in a process to polish the cups or they could have stored something in them for a ritual (maybe face paint or something edible for a ritual?
Even if that was the case, we can't carbon date molecular traces for date and neither can we say when the cups were first made either, unless maybe in cases where they included in the art as we see in some cases in Tanums Hede, where the art around them dates to mid Scandinavian bronze age. So someone later could have reused them. Even with the cups in the bronze age petroglyphs, they could have been there first but it kinda hints to them still being made around that time. That doesn't mean they weren't a thing people made back in the Neolithic, but they were likely in use for a long time.
One thing that struck me when you show the map of the different traditions in the uk and. Ireland is that the west side is much more mountainous and rocky than the far east and south of England. Perhaps it doesn’t mean anything but it’s what occurred as soon as I saw that map.
@@angusarmstrong6526 It could very well be geological - as those mountains have the stone needed for creation of monuments and rock art. Though, I would still suggest cultural, and the east / west divide is visible in the STYLE of monuments and rock art
Good overview. Can you tell if the cup and ring marks are mainly in the horizontal? If so, the multi ringed ones might well be used for separating grain from the rest of the plants (threshing) and/or grinding the grain. Would it be possible to make a copy of an unweathered example and test various hypothezises? Would give a great vid! 😊
Could be, but honestly, the ring marks are often very complex and abstract - almost certainly art. They COULD be later additions to cup marks, which once had a practical function (e.g dust for polishing axes)
"Symbolises the sun, and the moon". Or maybe the ripples in the puddle right next to it... maybe that puddle was there before the petroglyphs. I can't tell you how glad I am that you didn't go down that rabbit-hole.
GREAT stuff 😊
Thanks!
I didn’t get a notification for your last video. Maybe I’m not alone.
@@mirandamom1346 the establishment is trying to silence me!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson😂
Look at the Neolithic settlement patterns - those who moved from Jutland- Frisia to Northumbria and North, and the other Atlantic path from NW Spain, W France and up through the Irish Sea
Could be the case, though it does seem Scandinavia developed these traditions slightly later than Britain itself. I’m no expert on that though!
In 2016 I spent several days in Northumberland, searching for "cup and ring" symbols. I could not find any, even in locations that are marked on maps. I woukd like to try again.
@@gwaithwyr the Megalithic Portal is your best friend
Great video. But there are plenty in Wales as well.
@@christianwhittaker6718 Cup and ring? I’ll have a look, but always thought there was far less there than elsewhere
North west Sutherland has a smattering. Portugal has many cup marked stones. Possibly celestial maps, as they often are carved on outcrops facing skyward.
Liverpool's Calderstone Stone Circle has spirals, while standing stones its suburbs have cup and ring marks.
There should be a data base of all the sites of carved stones across Europe.
@@yarlkymcfirblatherington9879 My map of Irish Passage Tomb Art does show the Calderatones. They’re spirals and footprints, not typical for cup and ring. Plus, they were within a passage tomb originally! One of the many examples on the west coast, melding cup and ring and passage tomb art
Thanks, really interesting 👍
Thanks!
Very interesting, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it! 🙂
Thank you for doing what you do. I'm a drystone waller and sculptor. Part of me thinks I'm reincarnated from my neolithic self 😆. I have always been drawn to our ancient stones and henges. It seems so close, and yet.......
@@richardclegg7846 Thanks, I really appreciate the support!
You're very welcome. I will spread the word to my fellow pre-history geeks!
@@neddoucet7779 Thanks!
Did you mention Kilmartin? We know that in prehistoric times there was considerable interaction between peoples from distant locations.
@@robertstaas9314 no! But I feel that’s a topic all its own (and I have no footage)
Although cup and ring marks are very prolific, covering a larger geographical area, Scotland is not really mentioned in this video.
@@vamboroolz1612 I show some Scottish examples, and it is included on the map. The north of Scotland, like some of the more mountainous regions of England / Wales, was not home to a widespread culture of cup and rings.
You can the same spirals in Cornwall,St necrarns glenn
What a wonderful video!😊
Very knowneldgeable. I think all these stone carvings were some mind of road signs or place plates. Maybe some kind of cult was practised here?
@@patrycjakonieczna Maybe so! Many people think they may have been guides
@@AdamMorganIbbotson amazing.
For me history traced in stone is really fascinating. Tell you why.
I live (and my ancestors did, too) in area in Poland where there are many traces of earlier eons. And of early human activity. This is Góry Świętokrzyskie. Just one stroll in place they are just building a road and you find interesting fossils. Beside of this, I would enumerate several places where prehistoric people lived like Jaskinia Raj/Paradise Cage. Worth to see.
Thanks for this interesting video.
To understand our ancestral knowledge and symbolism, we logically have to investigate tis under natural conditions what they observed day and night throughout the seasons.
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In 3:02 you have a recognizable carving of the three Orion Belt stars.
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When observing the seemingly revolving stars and star constellations over some time, you naturally observe the Earth's celestial axis points around which all stars, constellations, and the contours of the Milky Way revolves.
This scenario naturally provides the central cupmark and concentric rings symbolism. A scenario you also can get by making a long time photo of a clear night sky in the darker seasons.
Best Wishes
Ivar Nielsen
Comparative Mythologist & Natural Philosopher
Denmark
@@ivornelsson2238 good spot, though I would argue any line of three dots could be recognised at Orion’s Belt
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Not at all. The three belt stars are significant by its two larger cupmarks and one smaller, slightly out of line with the two larger ones.
Just like you can observed with your own eyes as our ancestors did.
@@ivornelsson2238 If any one of the three are slightly off line it would appear that way. It’s not necessarily purposeful. AND, the rock’s been broken on the art
Good work 👍
@@jbaker6745 thanks!
Loving these videos. Out of interest, how much clearer would these markings have been 5000 years ago? And speculatively, how long would one take to carve?
@@thatsilvesterchap depends on the rock type! Igneous rock is harder to weather! But all of it to some extent I imagine! Look at any Medieval church, and compare it to a Victorian one, even slight weathering makes a huge difference
People travelled far and wide in the distant past. Think of all the epic odessey stories that exist. That is because people did travel, and well, it took a long time. Most were far far more uneventful, luckily. There is supposed to be a ley line running up from Glastonbury through where the Old Meg stone is. So people would travel far from the continent and Ireland.
For the mystery on what the symbols mean. As they are symbols, not text, you just look at them and have an intuitive understanding of what the makers were referring to. Generally they refer to unchanging aspects of our reality and how we as humans see/experience them. The core subject is consistent across the world. Just becuase they do not look exactly the same does not mean they are not referring to the same thing. Not ideal for scientists, but that is the nature of symbols. They were not written about, because of the whole persecution / stake burning / zealous mob thingy.
@@gdr189 thanks. You’re very cryptic though! What do they mean then exactly?
Also, where did you first learn about ‘ley lines’. I’m planning to make a video in the concept, and am constantly shocked people today still believe in their existence considering their history.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson 'They' was referring to symbols relating to sprituality /religion in general.
It is hard to discuss without writing a mass of text and sounding like someone with a wall covered in newspaper clippings and scribbles. I guess I wrote it in a 'if you know, you know' style as it was easier.
Various shapes have had similar meaning across time and geography. For example, Snakes (sqiggles/sawtooth) and knowledge, time, life/death/rebirth: 'Aztec double headed serpant for time, an ouroboros and 'infinity', a Caduceus 'life/death', Abraxas with snake legs meaning knowledge controlling the wild nature of man (oxen), serpent mound in Ohio, the Norse Jörmungandr as 'World Serpent', the ancient Greek Orphic egg, Kundalini from Hinduism etc.
The common square/circle/triangle related to world/reality, human, higher powers, think 'squaring the circle' to six pointed star from triangle up / down.
Host of other shapes from crosses / swastikas / crescents / spirals.
I don't know much about ley lines, but I know enough to not disregard. There is enough science around to start connecting dots and make a decent/interesting hypothesis.
We know the earth purely as a galactic body, has a huge amount of energy. People such as Buckminster Fuller have pointed us to geometry having (moving) energy as tensile/compressive forces. Cymatic patterns forming within sound which is again, energy moving through the air.
For instance the squared concentrict circle symbol, can be found carved within, on the lower half of an inner archway at Domus de Janas of Sedini.
Hey man, good video. Keep it up. Hope you blow up :)
@@PigletCNC thanks!
Great video thank you 😎✌️🇿🇦
@@giuseppersa2391 thanks!
Or the sky . Galaxy's would be easy seen in the stone age. I remember as a child seeing spiral galaxys in the dark country side
Northumberland is a good place to find those Cup and Ring stones but strangely western Co Durham seems pretty much devoid of them unless peat has covered them.Some but not many in the northern part of Yorkshire.I think that they are images seen in trance states.If you look at Australian Aboriginal rock paintings of spirit beings they are very similar.
@@kevanhubbard9673 Could be the geography - as Yorkshire does have them where rock is exposed. So a cultural region, but only where there is exposed rock. Could also be down to farming practices destroying them! Durham was a hotbed of medieval activity!
Ones up rothbury Northumberland . actually if look at them then the landscape noth , the marks look like maps
@@rrstows3522 or stars..
The fine views only became beautiful after humans defiled the rest of the scene with their civilized changes. Enclosures and fences and farmsteads tend to take the bloom of the rose. To them, prehistory people, the view was just the view. It was probably everywhere. Now we see the beauty in the rare vistas and appreciate unspoiled views. Our ancestor spoiled the views in order to survive and grow. Sorry, I have had a nice bottle of sweet strawberry wine and it makes me talkative. Cheers
@@cargilekm Good points - though it was more likely the industrial chimneys than any enclosures. The Neolithic landscape was mostly enclosed and deforested - as farming required constant movement to source fertile soils prior to advanced farming techniques. Britain was at minimum forestation during the Bronze Age!
Hillforts. The ones that have multiple ramparts not the ring forts
@@n0killz44 what about them?
@@AdamMorganIbbotson well, I don’t know. But the ones with multiple layers like my local site is very reminiscent of the pictographs you shared at the beginning of your video. And when you described Stone Age technology you basically explained how we think the hillfort was made, by piling up rocks. I’ve long believed it to be a religious site as we have half a dozen ring forts nearby in defensive locations high up and yet our ‘hillfort’ sits on a plain overlooked by them, and I know of no freshwater source nearby.
When the man appears on the painting in the opening scene, that's from a portrait of Friedrich Nietzsche isn't it?
@@AndyJarman no, it is a German painting though ‘Wanderer Above a Sea if Fog’
Is the apparent split in cultures between east and west Britain really a cultural split and not just a geological one? Certainly in East Anglia there is no hard rock to decorate, and any decoration applied to the posts of eg Wood Hedge haven’t survived. Do we have an absence of evidence rather than evidence of absence?
@@sevencranes That would assume there are no rocks to carve in East Anglia. Even if they were perishable in some way, buried examples would survive. Only small cultural differences would be needed to make decorative styles differ
@@AdamMorganIbbotson fair. Is it worth investigating whether there are rock artefacts of any description in East Anglia (other than flint)? (There are the Grimes Graves artefacts, but these seem to be the only ones from the area). If there are then that would give an indication that suitable rock exists but there isn’t any rock art. If there aren’t, then that might suggests that there isn’t any survivable rock. Underlying geology of much of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire is limestone/sandstone. There isn’t any igneous/metamorphic rock that I’m aware of, tho not my area or expertise, so happy to be corrected.
@@sevencranes well, Anglia is a specific example, as it was probably marsh / bog. It may also have had a lower population - so you’re right, it may be geographical. There ARE very old monuments, called the ‘Medway Megaliths’ nearby in Kent. But those are outliers
Most of us in cumbria don't like anywhere that isn't cumbria. It's a cumbrian thing. 😂😅
@@AdamMorganIbbotson I can’t cite anything (so take with a pinch of salt) but I think EA was reasonably well populated in the Neolithic. The wet areas are largely restricted to the Broads and the Fens, and the latter has a whole series of causeway enclosures around the margins. And there where the two henges found at Holme (seahenge). There’s a henge monument on the outskirts of Norwich (Arminghall), tho not sure if that’s Neolithic or Bronze Age. Not much survives inland, but suspect that’s because it’s always been good agricultural land.
Interesting debate, and love the videos :)
Hmmmmmmmm looks like the layout of Gobekli Tepe
hmmmm, yeah - a circle! WEIRD!
@AdamMorganIbbotson I agree it's super weird!
I bought your book on Cumbria, it's very thorough, yeah didn't watch yoiur last video, this is much more what I'm into. Sic to death of Hancock.
Thanks! I am sick of him, and discussion around him, too. That’s actually what the video is about! It got terrible engagement because people thumbs downed it thinking I was arguing for / against him. ALSO - new edition of my Cumbria book out this October, with 40+ new sites, and improvements all around!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson sweet, I can give the previous edition to my mate. He grew up in the lake district so I want to persuade him to show me around
Great video, thank you🙏🙏. If these symbols are found across the world, especially where it is 'art', and not just the most practical tool/food making process, there has to be a unifying source. This source, MUST have had enough power/influence/dominance to have contacts across the world, via both land & sea. We have to bear in mind though coastlines at the time were far different than today.
I'd propose an 'Atlantean' type of civilisation, the most dominant in technology/religion at the time, that had spread it's influence over the world. They would have the power to do this, whilst tribes at the edge of contact would be far more primitive. This is just like we have today, some countries can launch objects/people into space, whilst others have barely any contact & live a far more primitive/isolated lifestyle, but both live side by side.
The rings symbol with the straight line (@ 11.30) is found all over the earth, & sounds very similar to the Atlantean story of their port city surrounded by 'rings' of water & walls. The 'Atlanteans' claimed to be descended from the race that had come from the 'stars'. What better way than to use a plan view of the most important city on earth (it also denotes the power of either flight, maths, civilization, technology, city planning etc), to show your people's link to this? This is no different to later Kings/Pharaohs claiming to be descendants of X/Y/Z great rulers or 'Divine' sources before. The whole thing back then about both 'primitive' peoples & other 'advanced' civilizations is their rulers & peoples relationship/lineage with the afterlife, & 'highest powers/creators'.
After the Younger Dryas disaster around 9500 BC, the great flood/300ft higher water levels in a few years, survivors would wish to trace their lineage back to the most culturally/technologically advanced civilization they knew, especially if they were hoping for some sort of rescue.
The Irish have a legend about a race of advanced culturally & technologically red headed people who came from the sea, & settled in Ireland (along with the peoples who were already there). Their leader carried a large trident as his symbol of power (which has similarities with Poseidon of Greek myth - again, what is the original story source?). Did this give them a cultural advantage which let their symbols be used on the neighbouring lands later? TBH, I cannot say if this legend, if true, represents a 'Sea Peoples' invasion around 1170BC, or refugees of the 9500BC event, but as the Greeks knew of 'Poseidon' of up to 2000 years earlier than the 'Sea Peoples', it may suggest the latter. 'Atlantis' was also said to be Poseidon's city.
So, this would give us people coming from a ringed port city, integrating with original tribes - how could they record this for future generations, & in what material? All other advanced civilisations have used stone....I'm not saying this is true, but is interesting.
It's being/been proved that cultures & peoples all over the world knew about each other way before the historical narrative. Cut marks on bones 95,000 years old in North America, & Gobekli Tepe buildings (& the other Tepe sites) in Turkey alone have proved that people were living in areas previously unknown about, & far more advanced, at least 3500 years earlier than thought possible, & that they also possibly show the Younger Dryas cataclysm. This event would be carried down, talked about & symbolised by all peoples of the earth, both to record it, but also as a warning to future generations. Do these carved symbols attempt to show all this - city of Atlantis, maps of other main cities disasters?
@@eric-wb7gj Thanks for your comment - glad you enjoyed the video! But… I’d suggest you bin your Graham Hancock books. He’s a bore, who has no evidence, and talks complete nonsense.
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Thank you for your reply. I don't have any G.Hancock books. I know he proposes an ancient civilisation, that's it.
I look at all the photos of ancient buildings from across the world, from cultures which supposedly had no contact, according to historical narrative, which somehow still have the same architecture - How?!
Like your 'swirls' they appear across the world. This gives only 2 possibilities - You've either got some remarkable coincidences, almost impossible, or there was an initial source.
With historical narrative, we can go from hunter gatherers to landing on the moon in only 6k years.
As we have actually found earlier settlements than historical narrative of thousands of years (& more keep getting found), & Younger Dryas event has been proven at 9500BC, it makes sense that somewhere an advanced civilisation 'could' have appeared, but been lost. Even now, our major cities are built on coastline.
I'm not talking about spaceships, lasers etc, but just with enough technology to have ships/trade go around the world. This can be done with wooden or reed ships (which has already been proved).
@@eric-wb7gj Apologies, I assumed you were a Hancock fan as the Younger Dryas lost civilisation narrative was / is his idea. Or, he’s where that ship sails from anyway. Others who profit off spreading those ideas (lots of CZcamsrs / conspiracy theorists) use that idea like it’s fact - but it’s not.
Re. the similarities between symbols globally - there are FAR simpler theories on why such carvings are found around the globe. For one, spirals, circles, and dots are such basic designs, that even children doodle them without inspiration. You don’t need an ancient Atlantian to give you that idea. Secondly, cup marks may represent some as-of-yet unknown practice, and not art.
Basically, there’s absolutely no need bring in a lost civilisation, and there is literally, genuinely, zero evidence for the existence of such a thing. Feel free to believe it, but it’s probably not true! Sorry!!
Why are you talking like you're narrating the trailer of an action movie?
Because rock art is just that exciting
Great video. Not a fan of the "voice". No need to pretend mate, You're killing it!
Nothing pretend about it, it’s my brother who lived in Suffolk for 3+ years
South east part of England has much less stone geology, Norfolk has really only flint nodules, Suffolk has next to no stone accessible ( except crumbly septaria only good for walls ), an obvious reason why no rock art is evident so if the motifs were produced around here it would've been on perishable materials. For example there's evidence of a wood henge near Norwich so the henge culture certainly existed there but no stone to use for one.
Plus the flint export industry was huge out of East Anglia & it's been found all overy the British Isles so there would have been massive cultural interchange along with the exchange market for centuries.
@@gleeart While the geology may play a part, there are still stone tools and monuments in the south. The fact that there is no rock art there, even buried, is curious. And, the wooden coastal ‘henges’ are far later - Bronze Age, not mid-to-late Neolithic
Ask The Children of The Forest.
A great subject and you know your stuff, but why ate you talking like an 80yr old Jeremy Clarkson?
@@ianlaw6410 my presenter has a problem with his larynx
Is that his real voice? It doesn't quite match his face.
What voice is that face supposed to have?
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Less robust. It's been digitally altered.
@@FerndaleMichiganUSA I can confirm it hasn’t - that is indeed my sultry voice
No music, please.
- Ruhollah Khomeini, 1979
I don't know why this video came up for me I certainly not used to watch things like this.
"..these early Europeans.." Seriously??? 4000 years ago? They have found rockart and jewellery that are 40000 years old, in France, Germany etc. I could call them, who made that, the early Europeans. Or should we consider maybe the Neanderthals...?
These cupmarks and circles and spirals are everywhere, literally everywhere. They could be 4000, 9000 or 20000 years old. They look all the same.
Wonder what "genius" came up with the idea to 'date" them to a certain time period? No one can be able to do that. I don't take "We know" or "There are lots of evidence" as an answer. No. We don't know. There is no evidence of anything. We can look at them, and wonder, but that's all. It's always better to admit, "We don't know"
@@susannebrunberg4174 fair enough! It’s all semantics really, as I’d say anything prehistoric is early!
Re. Dating, there is a LOT of evidence that standing stones / megalithic tombs are mid-to-late Neolithic. Carbon-14 dating for one. Even Graham Hancock won’t touch the UK, because the dating evidence is so strong
„Megaliths - the 5,500 year old story” czcams.com/video/gzeGc6oWUrg/video.htmlsi=FGPKDYx-5kdC3PeN
„The Forgotten History of Celtic Poland”czcams.com/video/spnKYA27WYc/video.htmlsi=ySvGyi_w3UDOMtoM
@@buddavaio Thanks!
So wanted to watch this but had to turn off due to the dreadful “ Boris Johnson Voice Impersonation “ when out in the field. Shame you did that as I’m sure it was fascinating.
@@macinthewild8116 I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water Mac - despite my presenter’s awful Boris Johnson impression, I think it’s well worth a watch!
They're not rock art absolutely not rock art.
@@PeteRed-ig3fp What aren’t? And why not? Speak sense Peter!
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Get a clear picture of say Easter island head, cover the mouth what do you see. I can tell your very passionate and I didn't mean any offence just been looking into this stuff for a very long time and I've come in MHO to a psychonaut conclusion.
@@PeteRed-ig3fp The Easter Island Moai ARE rock art - they're art created by carving rock...
@@AdamMorganIbbotson Yes I agree however they're something else also.I didn't make myself clear enough first time I apologize.
@@PeteRed-ig3fp Come on then, what are they? You're being very enigmatic
It's not even prehistoric it's Georgian
@@dangleebals6746 Now, I really want to know what made you think that…
do not let any one tell you what these are then you go on to argue against said common thesis soo we cant belive you either lol mate get educated and put out content not pish
@@darranwilkins4648 Ey? What’s the common thesis? Also, are you from Glasgow?
😂😂😂😂 every thing you preclude with unknown or end it click bait generalised pish
@@darranwilkins4648 what does “preclude with” mean? And ‘everything’ is one word.