Go pattern your shotgun!!! I say that because in surviving duck season he said muller chokes patterned the best. After patterning today I had higher percentage on every ammo with my kicks high flyer choke then the muller!! Go pattern! Also go watch new hunters guide video about bismuth. Super interesting!
Yeah! You need to pattern your own gun, ammos and chokes. Same choke and ammo could be different from different gun. For steelshots very important seems to be how the choke can slower the wad. Carlson's Cremator, Kicks Highflyer and finnish Ammox have all different but effective solutions to make pellets separate from wad. Then pattern would be tighter and more even than from traditional chokes. Also appropriate gun fit is important. Maybe the most important thing at shotgun shooting.
I take a group of teenagers on a duck hunting trip every winter. The blue box of Federal Speed Shok no 2s outperform all the high dollar brands....HeviMetal. Migra. Winchester Blind Side. I pattern their guns with both mid range and long range Jebs choke tubes in 12 ga Winchester SX4 , a Remington, a Bowning Maxus & a Retay. Recently ordered Carlson Cremator tube set for my Browning. Hope it performs better than my Jebs. But the Blue boxes are the best value for sure in my opinion.
I just bought a new SKB 90TSS 12 ga. on Saturday. It's my first shotgun with an adjustable stock. I've learned a lot from your videos and am having it professionally fitted soon. I also bought several different boxes of ammo to pattern my shotgun. Thank you for all of your informative videos. I'm sure my dove hunting will improve as I implement the things I've learned. Blessings!!! Kirk
Good info. But if you are examining point of aim vs. Impact with a shotgun, you cannot do that reliability from a rest. It changes your body position, eye alignment and point of impact. It may shoot differently off hand. That is the nature of shotguns and how fit and form effects aim. If you have a scope or a red dot, it will work fine, like a rifle. That is the main reason turkey hunters benefit from optics because their body position is usually compromised shooting from contorted positions on the ground. But waterfowl hunting is almost exclusively done without a rest while standing, with some sitting shots, and maybe some laying ones if you use a layout blind. Always test point of aim from the position you plan to hunt.
Pattern test shoud do at first from the bench. Then you can eliminate human error. And the best way is aim just for a spot middle of paper. Then draw 75 cm (30") circle that covers most of the pellets. When you have find a good ammo/choke combinations you need to test them by shooting quick mounted shots to paper. If your gun doesn't fit you need to adjust it. Or if your mounting varies every time you need to practise mounting. Good way to test that is shoot few times four quick mounted shots (without aiming or correcting mounting) to paper from 10 meters with the tightest choke that you have.
Pattern test, yes certainly. POA vs. POI test, then no unless it is a purely academic test which doesn't functionally benefit the hunter because shooting off hand may produce a different POI.@@aman9054
When we in England had to use non toxic shot, I patterned the old lead loads we were using to find the pattern width. This is more important than most realise; as there are 4 main areas that need to be right. So you are going to need ALL! Your chokes until you get it right with steel shot-which we use- or other types. First- flighting> width and density with BB's or 2's for geese. 2's or 3's for ducks. Next -general> width and good coverage and less dense centre with 2's or 3's. Then decoying>This is where mistakes are made with too dense centres-missing or blowing up a bird. The pattern needs good coverage overall( not possible with some types of shot) with 2's for geese, 3+5's (the best combination) or 4's for ducks. Now the problem, lastly> Teal at dawn and dusk. I go for a very open pattern as most are decoyed very close or speeding past, using 4's or 5's as this is a hit or miss game.
I shoot a beretta a400 extreme for duck hunting. Stock chokes seemed to drop pellets before reaching target. Found the muller decoy choke with federal speed shock #3 patterns best , it’s all I use for waterfowl until temps below freezing . Patterning works everyone should be doing it , great video thanks
I purchased a Browning Maxus from Reed's field grade Plastic stock .. I have short arms.. Ordered a wooden stock so I can make it a bit shorter. I really do need to pattern it more than shooting glass bottles.. it seems to shoot a bit high. I pulled the trigger on a Woodchuck and it just went click.. Killed the next woodchuck then it went click again. leaving a very light dent in the primer.. I took it all apart and cleaned it never found any issue.. Assumed the firing pin must be bad.. As I was putting it back together a shiny small piece or metal fell on the bench. I grabbed a magnet.. It was lead. I had been using some of my Grandfathers reloads that were not crimped properly. Now it works like Normal again. How comes you can't get a functioning shell catcher like my Remington Model 1100 has that works so well .
Nice video. I was very glad to see you reinforce the need to shoot multiple patterns and the need to count them in order to make an informed decision. So many people shoot one pattern and call a combination good or bad. You didn't mention the relatively uncommon possibility that a choke could be machined slightly off causing the pattern to shift. It may be TMI for a introductory video, however.
I patterned mine with Hevi XII #6 and uniform with Hevimetal choke LR and cremater chokes ER. Used Hevimetal #2. The cremator pattern were all to the left a foot. I am going to repeat with BB, and 4s. 40 yds steel wounds. Bismuth knocks down Tungsten kills dead.
Actually, you’re pretty good at your goose call. I was watching this on my iPad with the volume up. As you used the call, my cat immediately jumped up and looked out of the living room window and up in the air trying to spot the bird. You fooled the greatest land based predator so I’d say you’re doing just fine! 😃
Gotta remember steel patterns tighter. A improved cylinder shoots like a mod. A mod is improved mod, and improved mod is a full. Bismuth shoots similar in patterns to lead. If you shoot inside 30 yards with steel, you need open the choke.
Ya and steel looses velocity so quickly it pretty much negates that outside 20 to 30yrds. And you pretty much need a imporved mod to reach much past consistently with steel... yes you can. Hit things at 40-50 put it's pretty much luck with steel and anything less than mod. Unless birds are ontop of me. I go opposite. I don't even like quail hunting mith less than a mod.
Only if you hit the duck with some. I completely agree, but if my gun shot like this I would shoot the ammo that hit point of aim first, assuming it was consistent in doing so
Can we see a review on the Retay shotguns? I’ve felt them in the gun store and they feel a lot like the franchi and benellis, it’d be cool to get your opinion on them!
Thanks for good video! Is it possible to do penetration test compared bismuth #4 to steel #2? Usually test are using just ballistic gel blocks but at british scientific test they compared lead and steel by using both pure gel blocks and pheasant skin and feather in front of the gel blocks. If you have ducks it could be worth to test. At british test steel pellets didin't lost penetration depth as much as lead pellets when there was feathers in front of the block. To pure gel block lead had more significant deeper penetration. It had better penetration also through feathers but not as much as to pure gel. Lead pellets took more feathers with them to the gel than more round and hard steel pellets. Also usually tested comparing penetration from #4 lead/bismuth and steel is not appropriate. Steel has lower density so you need to increase size about one or two.
I’m very curious if there’s a general rule on how bismuth patterns compared to steel and lead. I’ve heard that steel shoots tighter, for example a IC choke for lead general is considered a modified for steel so where does bismuth fall?
Bismuth will continue to pattern tighter no matter how tight you choke it, all the way to an average turkey choke. Steel may or may not depending on brand and shot size.
Im pretty sure for thr second shot, that your bird target was off center for the 30 inch circle by about 4 inches. So i think your actual aim point wasnt centered in the 30in circle to start.
I’m a fan not shooting steel shot if at all possible. It just doesn’t perform as well as more dense non-toxic options like Hevi-metal and bismuth. Yeah, a steel load may pattern well but the energy on target is notably less than more dense options. Not to mention on windy days which is common on waterfowl hunts, steel is much more susceptible to wind drift due to is larger diameter and lighter density. Thus causing more drift. And I’ve seen way too many birds only be downed because they’re crippled from steel shot rather than killed. I’ve had far more one shot kills, doubles and birds recovered since making the switch to Boss bismuth loads for all my non-toxic required bird hunting. Run it in everything from 10ga, 12, 16, and 20.
Works... just not designed for light dove and target loads. Action Springs to heavy since it's a water fowl gun with 3's in mind... oh and the loading port is small and kinda sharp if you have fat thumbs bigger than a 20 guage rnd
You're not shooting the same way with both rounds! Watched your video to see what setup (steady rest / bag, etc) you were using so I could do something similar.. But I noticed that you did not hold the forestock when you shot the Bismuth, but you did when you shot the SpeedShock. Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
You still need to pattern to see if your gun shoots low or high .. Or as in this video right or left.. the stock must not be fitting to his cheek Properly .. Custom Adjustable stocks are the way to go. Like Trap shooters use.
Going Duck Hunting with a 7 Round Magazine .. The Game Warden will keep your Gun and put you in Jail. I sure do hope that you have a plug for your Magazine..
Surviving duck season has the best ammo and choke videos that I've ever seen. But you definitely shoot more than he does.
Go pattern your shotgun!!! I say that because in surviving duck season he said muller chokes patterned the best. After patterning today I had higher percentage on every ammo with my kicks high flyer choke then the muller!! Go pattern! Also go watch new hunters guide video about bismuth. Super interesting!
Yeah! You need to pattern your own gun, ammos and chokes. Same choke and ammo could be different from different gun.
For steelshots very important seems to be how the choke can slower the wad. Carlson's Cremator, Kicks Highflyer and finnish Ammox have all different but effective solutions to make pellets separate from wad. Then pattern would be tighter and more even than from traditional chokes. Also appropriate gun fit is important. Maybe the most important thing at shotgun shooting.
@Badazz069z love my kicks X Full high flyer! Paired with heavy metal 3½" #3's it was a deadly combo to 80 yards.
The cheap federal speed shoks have been my go to for years. They've always patterned good for me.
I take a group of teenagers on a duck hunting trip every winter. The blue box of Federal Speed Shok no 2s outperform all the high dollar brands....HeviMetal. Migra. Winchester Blind Side. I pattern their guns with both mid range and long range Jebs choke tubes in 12 ga Winchester SX4 , a Remington, a Bowning Maxus & a Retay. Recently ordered Carlson Cremator tube set for my Browning. Hope it performs better than my Jebs. But the Blue boxes are the best value for sure in my opinion.
Great info. I think the key is the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shots to see if the empty spaces were consistent with the steel or other shot. Thanks!
I just bought a new SKB 90TSS 12 ga. on Saturday. It's my first shotgun with an adjustable stock. I've learned a lot from your videos and am having it professionally fitted soon. I also bought several different boxes of ammo to pattern my shotgun. Thank you for all of your informative videos. I'm sure my dove hunting will improve as I implement the things I've learned. Blessings!!!
Kirk
Good info. But if you are examining point of aim vs. Impact with a shotgun, you cannot do that reliability from a rest. It changes your body position, eye alignment and point of impact. It may shoot differently off hand. That is the nature of shotguns and how fit and form effects aim. If you have a scope or a red dot, it will work fine, like a rifle. That is the main reason turkey hunters benefit from optics because their body position is usually compromised shooting from contorted positions on the ground. But waterfowl hunting is almost exclusively done without a rest while standing, with some sitting shots, and maybe some laying ones if you use a layout blind. Always test point of aim from the position you plan to hunt.
Pattern test shoud do at first from the bench. Then you can eliminate human error. And the best way is aim just for a spot middle of paper. Then draw 75 cm (30") circle that covers most of the pellets. When you have find a good ammo/choke combinations you need to test them by shooting quick mounted shots to paper. If your gun doesn't fit you need to adjust it. Or if your mounting varies every time you need to practise mounting. Good way to test that is shoot few times four quick mounted shots (without aiming or correcting mounting) to paper from 10 meters with the tightest choke that you have.
Pattern test, yes certainly. POA vs. POI test, then no unless it is a purely academic test which doesn't functionally benefit the hunter because shooting off hand may produce a different POI.@@aman9054
When we in England had to use non toxic shot, I patterned the old lead loads we were using to find the pattern width. This is more important than most realise; as there are 4 main areas that need to be right. So you are going to need ALL! Your chokes until you get it right with steel shot-which we use- or other types. First- flighting> width and density with BB's or 2's for geese. 2's or 3's for ducks. Next -general> width and good coverage and less dense centre with 2's or 3's. Then decoying>This is where mistakes are made with too dense centres-missing or blowing up a bird. The pattern needs good coverage overall( not possible with some types of shot) with 2's for geese, 3+5's (the best combination) or 4's for ducks. Now the problem, lastly> Teal at dawn and dusk. I go for a very open pattern as most are decoyed very close or speeding past, using 4's or 5's as this is a hit or miss game.
I shoot a beretta a400 extreme for duck hunting. Stock chokes seemed to drop pellets before reaching target. Found the muller decoy choke with federal speed shock #3 patterns best , it’s all I use for waterfowl until temps below freezing . Patterning works everyone should be doing it , great video thanks
What changes when the temperature is below Freezing?
@@mikeskidmore6754 ducks and geese get fatter. bb’s work much better then.
i use the same gun with the pattern master code black goose and loved shooting heavi steel 3 1/2” #2 as my all around shell
I just recently got into hunting and your videos have been very helpful. Thanks man!
I purchased a Browning Maxus from Reed's field grade Plastic stock .. I have short arms.. Ordered a wooden stock so I can make it a bit shorter. I really do need to pattern it more than shooting glass bottles.. it seems to shoot a bit high.
I pulled the trigger on a Woodchuck and it just went click.. Killed the next woodchuck then it went click again.
leaving a very light dent in the primer.. I took it all apart and cleaned it never found any issue.. Assumed the firing pin must be bad..
As I was putting it back together a shiny small piece or metal fell on the bench. I grabbed a magnet.. It was lead. I had been using some of my Grandfathers reloads that were not crimped properly.
Now it works like Normal again.
How comes you can't get a functioning shell catcher like my Remington Model 1100 has that works so well .
Please do a video on Upland Game ammo selection (Pheasant) in Iowa we have to use steel
Was taught to draw the circle ‘after’ the shot ( or shots ) on a dot on paper... Thank for the 👍 videos!
Fantastic point on mount as you merge!
Great video! Could you do one where the duck is fed magnets 🧲 and then all the steel shot might all hit the bird but the bismuth would not?
Nice video. I was very glad to see you reinforce the need to shoot multiple patterns and the need to count them in order to make an informed decision. So many people shoot one pattern and call a combination good or bad. You didn't mention the relatively uncommon possibility that a choke could be machined slightly off causing the pattern to shift. It may be TMI for a introductory video, however.
I patterned mine with Hevi XII #6 and uniform with Hevimetal choke LR and cremater chokes ER. Used Hevimetal #2. The cremator pattern were all to the left a foot. I am going to repeat with BB, and 4s.
40 yds steel wounds.
Bismuth knocks down
Tungsten kills dead.
How about O/u. Currently I shoot a 20 ga. Chokes are full and modified. What do you do pattering these guns?
Great video. I would go with the 2 shot. More challenging.
Actually, you’re pretty good at your goose call. I was watching this on my iPad with the volume up. As you used the call, my cat immediately jumped up and looked out of the living room window and up in the air trying to spot the bird. You fooled the greatest land based predator so I’d say you’re doing just fine! 😃
when patterning do you focus on target or bead?
When patterning, you are shooting at a stationary target and I aim....aka, focus on the bead and line it up with my point of aim.
Pattern is king!
# 2 Steel is a lot more cheaper and readily available
Can you please do upland hunts on this channel thanks
Big fan of your shotgun reviews. Wondering if you could review the SAUER SL5 WATERFOWL?
it would be great to see you using a Müller choke in the next videos. since the outworked all other brands in joels videos
Gotta remember steel patterns tighter. A improved cylinder shoots like a mod. A mod is improved mod, and improved mod is a full. Bismuth shoots similar in patterns to lead. If you shoot inside 30 yards with steel, you need open the choke.
Ya and steel looses velocity so quickly it pretty much negates that outside 20 to 30yrds. And you pretty much need a imporved mod to reach much past consistently with steel... yes you can. Hit things at 40-50 put it's pretty much luck with steel and anything less than mod. Unless birds are ontop of me. I go opposite. I don't even like quail hunting mith less than a mod.
Thanks very informative, keep them coming...
I think I’d go with the steel shot and just because it was more on point of aim
Bismuth energy is superior
Only if you hit the duck with some. I completely agree, but if my gun shot like this I would shoot the ammo that hit point of aim first, assuming it was consistent in doing so
Id love to see a video centered around 00 buck rounds
Love the video. Can you do an ammo comparison for pheasant hunting!?
Can we see a review on the Retay shotguns? I’ve felt them in the gun store and they feel a lot like the franchi and benellis, it’d be cool to get your opinion on them!
Thanks for good video!
Is it possible to do penetration test compared bismuth #4 to steel #2? Usually test are using just ballistic gel blocks but at british scientific test they compared lead and steel by using both pure gel blocks and pheasant skin and feather in front of the gel blocks. If you have ducks it could be worth to test. At british test steel pellets didin't lost penetration depth as much as lead pellets when there was feathers in front of the block. To pure gel block lead had more significant deeper penetration. It had better penetration also through feathers but not as much as to pure gel. Lead pellets took more feathers with them to the gel than more round and hard steel pellets.
Also usually tested comparing penetration from #4 lead/bismuth and steel is not appropriate. Steel has lower density so you need to increase size about one or two.
I would say you try the same size pellets and see if that federal filled out that pattern with more pellets in the shell
Are you replacing paper after every shot or just marking holes and using the same paper?
Please do a review of the Huglu HT-14 shotgun.
I’m very curious if there’s a general rule on how bismuth patterns compared to steel and lead. I’ve heard that steel shoots tighter, for example a IC choke for lead general is considered a modified for steel so where does bismuth fall?
Bismuth will continue to pattern tighter no matter how tight you choke it, all the way to an average turkey choke. Steel may or may not depending on brand and shot size.
Im pretty sure for thr second shot, that your bird target was off center for the 30 inch circle by about 4 inches. So i think your actual aim point wasnt centered in the 30in circle to start.
I’m a fan not shooting steel shot if at all possible. It just doesn’t perform as well as more dense non-toxic options like Hevi-metal and bismuth. Yeah, a steel load may pattern well but the energy on target is notably less than more dense options. Not to mention on windy days which is common on waterfowl hunts, steel is much more susceptible to wind drift due to is larger diameter and lighter density. Thus causing more drift. And I’ve seen way too many birds only be downed because they’re crippled from steel shot rather than killed.
I’ve had far more one shot kills, doubles and birds recovered since making the switch to Boss bismuth loads for all my non-toxic required bird hunting. Run it in everything from 10ga, 12, 16, and 20.
Find a gun with a cutts compensator and do a comparison, my 20g wingmaster with a cutts is the best patterning gun I own
That helps tremendously. Cool video, always informative and entertaining.
Good stuff 👍🏻
*Blows goose call*
*Ducks don't respond...*
Hmmmm......
Thanks for video. What happens if you shoot pattern with swing, not direct hit ?
What model glasses are you wearing? Love the channel 👍🏼
ESS Crossblade! Check em out! www.targetfocused.life/eyepro
@@TargetFocusedLife thank you!
❤❤❤ the videos thanks for the help
but which is more affective against wind
Shit man, I liked your goose call
You're shooting from a rest. How does your pattern placement differ if you shoot from a natural shooting position?
What do you mean by mid range choke ?
Can you review the stoeger 3020
Works... just not designed for light dove and target loads. Action Springs to heavy since it's a water fowl gun with 3's in mind... oh and the loading port is small and kinda sharp if you have fat thumbs bigger than a 20 guage rnd
I'm going # 2 steel. I can't afford Bismuth. My goal isn't to get the best combo ever. My goal is to get the best bang for the buck.
Put a Black Mamba choke in and forget it!
You're not shooting the same way with both rounds!
Watched your video to see what setup (steady rest / bag, etc) you were using so I could do something similar..
But I noticed that you did not hold the forestock when you shot the Bismuth, but you did when you shot the SpeedShock. Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
You have to compare 2 shot bismuth!!! Its pointless to compare 5 shot to 2 in this case.
Duck hunting with a goose call? That’s why they won’t come in!
I have found that pattern changes from shell to shell, even within the same brand and size. For me patterning is a waste of time and money.
You still need to pattern to see if your gun shoots low or high .. Or as in this video right or left.. the stock must not be fitting to his cheek Properly .. Custom Adjustable stocks are the way to go. Like Trap shooters use.
Ya ...lol.. an average is what you would be looking for.
If my shotgun hits the target down.if will adjusted
👍👍
Sharp lookin berger ur shootin there lol
First
Full Choke is the only Choke you use for Duck hunting ..
Smoking crack
I hope you are joking...
If you’re not patterning your shotgun before taking it hunting, you’re just an irresponsible hunter and disrespectful to the game you’re hunting.
Going Duck Hunting with a 7 Round Magazine .. The Game Warden will keep your Gun and put you in Jail. I sure do hope that you have a plug for your Magazine..
That gun holds 10...9 in tube, mines works great for hunting, cut a half inch dowel rod drop in in and go..
I'm sure he is patterning for the spring goose season.
@@ndpike13 The whole video is about Duck and Goose Hunting isn't it . I did not mention they have an Extra Full choke for Turkey Hunting.
@mikeskidmore6754 but he doesn't need a plug for the spring season... so... no warden needed.
@@travisweldmaster7815 I knew it was 7 or more .. Then again it depends if you are shooting 2.75 shells or 3.5" shells too .
Thought your brother was going to make videos too ??