Aaron Judge v. Ken Griffey Jr. Swing Analysis and Comparison
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 01. 2024
- In this video I compare the swing mechanics of Aaron Judge and ken Griffey Jr. Don't forget to subscribe.
Swing Like Griffey eBook - theswingmechanic.com/products...
Front Arm Dominant Training Bat here - theswingmechanic.com/products...
Follow me on Instagram - / the_swing_mechanic
You can join my CZcams channel for 14.99 a month and get full access to my baseball swing course, as well as regular members-only videos - / @theswingmechanic - Sport
When I was in little league, a coach actually turned me around and taught me to hit left handed so we could start from scratch. He showed me tape of Griffey and had the same observations regarding the hands and weight transfer. I was hitting the ball harder and farther even though I was naturally right handed. And, I hit the ball straighter (no hook or slice).
It is about efficiency, which swing fits your strengths. The idea is to get the bat on the same plane as the ball for a long as you can keep the barrel in the zone on that plane will give you the best chance to hit the ball consistently. You have to keep your head still to hit 90+. Not right and wrong, more or less efficient than each other. There are about 3 main approaches taught , strengths and weaknesses to each. Some use more/less wrists in the swing, some punch more/less than others to stay inside the ball. Some use more/less hips. Not 1 way to hit the ball, but more/less efficient ways.
I don’t believe there are enough people out there who understand how good this video is. The mass/weight comment is absolutely a part of the equation. Force = mass x acceleration. So, for other coaches who seem to hate on striding (more rotational), they miss the huge advantage of putting your body in forward motion, pushing against the front leg, and then unleashing the lever action of the hands and arms. It’s all about force, barrel speed, and having the barrel on the correct plane as long as possible. Believe it or not, swinging a bat with maximum force and velocity (like an axe) is a fairly innate human skill. Give a man 500 chops at a tree and he’ll quickly figure out how to impart the maximum amount of force and axe head speed without a ton of contemplation. Show me a lumberjack using the Schenck method and I’ll buy you a beer. It’s not an efficient way to deliver balanced power.
Now some might argue that Schenck’s method of dumping the bat backwards helps you react faster. I think the exact same thing could be achieved more smoothly by simply dropping the hands during striding. Ted Williams and Hank Aaron thought so. Plus, fixing a swing plane with a barrel dump, limits the flexibility to hit pitches in different locations.
Bottom line, I know there are a ton of people who think Schenck is a huge reason for Judge’s success. And he certainly might be partially responsible. However, Jaime C’s knowledge of “ideal” swing mechanics is much more science based and logical. Meaning, if you had Judge practice under Jaime, I think he would not only hit more home runs, he’d also strike out less.
100%. Getting the bodyweight into the swing is missing in today’s instruction. 🙏
@@theswingmechanicBody weight is present in rotational swinging as well, but ignoring the fact that every great hitter moves linearly towards the mound, creating force, is absolutely missing. I have no idea why the HLP proponents fail to see that….it is huge.
Trees don't get trickily thrown towards lumberjacks at 90+ mph with 12" of drift. Schenck is concerned with getting the barrel up to speed with as little of additional body motion as possible. That's the root of his philosophy.
@@povertygarage705The lumberjack analogy relates to generating force.
Bringing the barrel up to speed (Schenk method) with rotation about the forearm is not efficient motion….unless you want a steep bat angle and limited plate coverage. Plus, this snap motion is contrary the top hand pronation that every great hitter utilizes to maximize barrel acceleration. The snap might look quick, but quickness is pointless if it’s a weak motion with limited plate coverage. And to your point, learning a quick vertical snap that doesn’t really address different pitch locations is actually harmful. Before you respond, please let me know of a single hitter who uses this snap. This is most certainly NOT how Bonds, Judge, or any other great hitter moves.
@@povertygarage705A lot of discussion, in regard to the pitchers of today, has to do with the speed at which they throw. Surely, we need the HLP to address these fireballers with great stuff, right? Hank Aaron hit about .320 lifetime vs. Nolan Ryan…..the most dominant pitcher to ever play. Hank had a huge stride and active hands. Not to mention, a low strikeout percentage. The mantra that we must use HLP to hit today’s pitching is often repeated, but the fact of the matter is no one swings like Schenk.
Jaime, do you have a video where you discuss the optimal contact spot for different pitches with the "arm bar" vs "arm bent" swings?
No. I don't really distinguish between the two. If you have an arm-bar swing, you are going to have to bend it sometimes to reach high and tight for example. Pretty much everything can be worked out off a tee and swinging with just the lead arm, including ideal ball placement.
Jamie , what about backspin vs just body weight… would you agree with getting both … body and flat to transition off the backside to front side to then hit down on back off ball to create backspin to get more distance on ball flight…. Judge gets side spin to top spin.
Lot of hitters i coach in college get top spin and they are obviously not as strong or ever going to be as big as judge or as strong so that is a double whammy to just be a pop out machine and swing and miss machine
I'm against any sort of trying to manipulate backspin or loft angle. I think the goal should be to optimize the amount of force applied to the ball. Thinking about backspin or loft angle is not going to lead to any difference. There have been great P4Pers who have swung more upwards and ones who have swung more downwards. Doesn't matter.
My Grandfather always taught me to keep things short and glide into the ball he always made sure I wasnt doing unnecessary moves with my hands or lower body, as a result my swing kind of mirror Griffey's
honestly my Grand dad was a wizzard and everyone that knew him told me he should have played in the majors but he didnt know English nor he had the people around him to get him there.
Bro if Griffey wasn’t hurt he would have been the best hitter in baseball
Swing to knock down the fence is the correct assessment of “old school” imo and I still believe that is correct when teaching the best swing.
The vertical bat angle TM has in his teaching is completely wrong and to me is why the swing is disconnected. Like you said, we can use an eye test and see aesthetically something looks off with it compared to the p4p greats. Even Bonds swing is not like he teaches, and that is supposedly who he “matches”. Rearward tilt is not something Bonds or the greats did from launch.
I know you mention about getting to a point where we agree on the right swing approach. Unfortunatelly I still see a lot of the push forward, don't rotate approach. Not just Richard but in his most recent video, I saw Antonelli explaining staying through the zone longer like you are hitting three baseballs, so basically push hands forward instead of rotating. And these are coaches who recognize Griffey has having one of the best if not the best swing in baseball. So I see some inconsistency on how they perceive an effective swing
But does "staying through the zone longer" necessarily lead to pushing instead of rotating? Isn't what Jaime calls "moving fulcrum" also staying through the zone longer?
@@andrecanis4894 the arms will stay on path while the body is rotating. Mookie Betts has sort of a combination of both methods where he bends the front elbow but still rotates his body.
I think the reason why Schenk's HLP has been adopted more is because of they way he's able to break down the mechanics, make them repeatable, asorbable, and explain effectively why each step is important.
The hardest part of learning a Griffey style swing is you are relying much more on teaching a feeling throughout the entire swing process opposed to do these 10 steps and get good at them.
I believe I teach a fluid movement. The result of Schenck's swing is too jerky and stiff IMO.
10 steps is a ton. The front arm way is way easier and you won’t have do one legged hitting drills. Once you know it is just a matter of doing some basic maintenance swings. The smaller guys who hit yard do not use teacherman technique.
Does Kerry Carpenter's improvement last year lend any credence to Schenck's HLP for more typically sized players?
Kerry Carpenter is 220. That's not small. I don't think so but I'm trying to not talk about Schenck because he's so 2023 :D
The biggest difference between Judge and Griffey is that the Judge is covering a larger strike zone. The umpires consistently call low strikes on Judge.
Judge is got the bent front arm crap that the Dodgers try to teach that screwed up Bellinger. Not sure how you can hit well like that.
Love the aesthetic. But TM prioritizes something important that perhaps wasn't as important in the past namely giving the hitter more time to make a choice. With the pitchers throwing so fast these days it may just be the natural evolution (mutation?) of the swing. Makes sense we'd start snapping and tilting so we'd be able to make better judgements on pitches as opposed to how efficient our swing is. I think Griffey had a better swing too but we shouldn't underestimate Bonds' eye. He is probably the the greatest pitch choice hitter w or wo roids. I have a feeling that's due to the confidence in the speed of his bat snap and I think TM greatly prioritizes this. As much as I love this swing there is something to be said for finding that twist loading position and just waiting for the right pitch to release on as oppose to having to connect all these movements while a ball goes 104 past you. Thoughts? Perhaps there's a hybrid?
Why would his method give the hitter more time to make a choice? He’s sold everyone on that but there’s no reason why it would be faster.
Less steps. Thinking that all you need to do is snap the bat and tilt seems quicker than the kinetic chain. Suppose someone mastered both. You might use yours against guys with lower velocity and his for heavy fb pitchers@@theswingmechanic
@@theswingmechanic there is a clip of ken griffey hitting a grand slam against a closers fastball that was clocked at 100+ and he turns it around to deposit it into right field. Velo has been prevalent in baseball for ages, you’re correct with your teaching, this swing can hit velo and can hit off speed, richards swing teaching is in my mind specifically trying to match speed of the pitch with the speed at which the hitter can launch their barrel. Not how well they can make contact, or what positions they get into at contact. Would you Agree?
I think you and TM agree on the front elbow position in the swing. Bonds says throw the bat head. Both of you are just debating when.
Palm up and palm down at contact!!!!!!
I’m don’t like his front elbow position. His swing starts with a snap which doesn’t line up with kinetic chain. There’s not enough body into the hit as a result.
You can’t be any other way but palm up palm down at contact.
When I see you do your drills free swinging with your front arm I see that the elbow drives forward and forearm and bat are lined up. the older swings tend to press the front arm on the chest. I think the older swings loaded with the hands farther back and the newer swings are getting so tight that there creating space from the chest.
there's beauty in both of your swings. Griffey and Bonds. @@theswingmechanic
God I hate the phrase "Palm up Palm down" -that tells me nothing. Like, literally, how is anyone going to be anything other than palm up palm down at contact? Is there anyone who is palm up palm up at contact?
@@VicInNocal 100%
@@VicInNocal The term palm up and palm down is used to show hand placement at contact. if you don't know a good hand placement to use at contact, start there. I would also look at front arm placement and back elbow during the swing. I'm with you. ask 100 coaches get 100 answers.The guys on youtube do a great job. Try Antonelli, Josh Cathcart, teacherman, and yes my friend Jaime. 😁
The kid
No question.
Griffey's swing, while the most popular, will never be taught because he has a "stand tall position". Youth players are taught against this stance. They are taught: stand square (more like Mark McGwire). They don't understand hand separation. Both swings are commiserate, Mark McGwire with the forearms and Griffey with the body. You want BOTH!!! (that's where Barry Bonds enters the discussion)
I don't understand what you mean but I'll tell you that Bonds and Mcgwire took steroids and weighed at least 30 pounds more than Griffey. I'm looking for guys who didn't cheat and do it with muscle, and rather did it with their swing.
@@theswingmechanic I didn't quite catch the first part about Richard Schenk swing--didn't know his name (have seen his videos though). But yeah, I'm basically identifying that that's what I see taught--thus Griffey's swing would be hard to maintain (because it would likely be coached out of the modern youth player unless they're special enough that the coach won't touch them).
What I meant by "stand tall", is that the batting stance is almost standing straight up. I actually probably overexaggerated what I thought Griffey did (now looking closer). His feet are pretty well shoulder-width apart (there are other players' swings where they start off with their feet almost together), but there's only a slight bend in his front leg and his back leg is almost straight. Whereas, most youth coaches will see that and immediately tell the player to bend both knees more (and I feel like generally a wider initial stance is recommended).
My point is, is that standing up then taking a slight step forward is a crucial part of Griffey's swing. As he steps forward, he comes into the "canonical" position (the one usually recommended to beginners), but at this point, to _your_ point he has created forward body momentum while keeping his arms exactly where they started--thus getting excellent extension. He then starts a similar rotation to Judge/Schenk: the difference being that if you stay back and fire, you generate power from zero momentum, and if you step forward and let your center of mass move slightly forward, into the ball, you can create rotation against a moving center of mass which will be a more natural motion.
p.s. I have no bonafides here. Just a fan who's always been interested in different styles of swings.
Judge and Griffey both have modern weight shift swings controlled by their heads (not by a coach). Teach has nothing to do with Judge.
Go to schenk and learn HLP yourself. Then you can decide whether front arm dominant or HLP is better
You’re sure on my channel a lot. Could it be that you’re looking for something better?🤔😂
And you somehow have STILL not responded to the point.
Check out Lau's 1980's book. His Absolutes still rule today. All hitters, even Judge, load back, go forward, PUT THEIR HEADS DOWN, and hit on or against a braced front leg. Head position determines the nature of the swing. No one can hit with his head pointed at the sky. The laws of motion and human physiology are unalterable, at least as we can perceive them.
😬🤦🏻♂️
Lau had 1 thing right, he taught that the front arm was dominate and that the back arm didn’t need to be controlling the swing..
Many of the other things he taught were not very good
@@awakentotruthmichaelsmith4698 Lau taught "The Absolutes of Good Hitting"
"1. A balanced, workable stance
2. Rhythm and movement in the Stance
3. A good weight shift from a firm, rigid backside forward to hit from a firm, rigid frontside.
4. Striding with the front toe closed
5. Having the bat in the launching position at the moment the front foot touches down.
6. Making a positive, aggressive movement back toward the pitcher
7. A tension-free swing.
8. Putting your head down when you swing.
9. Using the whole field to hit in.
10.Hit through the ball"
Popular?
Fernando Tatis jr swings like Griffey and Mike Trout is HLP. Both work but which one is better is up to the individual. If u were the hitting coach would u mess with Trout, no. Same thing goes for Fernando Tatis jr.
Trout is Lead-Arm Dominant. Whether he's HLP or not doesn't matter. The quintessential thing that Trout does is that he's not overexerting the back arm.
@@theswingmechanic Trout is the definition of HLP. If you can't see it. I can't help you..
@@WehateBiden 👌 ok, man. (little Schenckies all over the internet 😂)
@@theswingmechanic You don't understand what keeping your left and right arm connected means🤷🏻♂️
@@theswingmechanic Ken Griffey was 230 lb. Love ur work😂
Yall both are way off. Judge swing isn't high level. He is the biggest baseball player ever, so he will have the most homeruns, given. His swing has a hole at the top of the zone. He leads the 2024 team in strikeouts. Doesn't crack the top 100 lowest strikeout rate. So yall both clueless.
Definitely l stay Ken Grifey swing Judge doesn’t go deep to hit homerones he is to strong