Importance of Compacting Pavers After Laying | Using a Compactor Pad for Pavers
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2022
- Today we talk the importance of compacting pavers after laying them to ensure the longevity of the jointing compound and the interlocking concrete pavement system.
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fantastic. thank you! getting the circular villa stone pavers from abbotsford concrete delivered today. I think I've done all the prep properly so far and will do the install on monday when the rain stops. Thank you for this reminder!
Thank you for watching and commenting! Good luck 👍
I absolutely love your channel. I've been searching far and wide and nothing has been more in-depth or informative than your videos. thank you so much
Glad you enjoy them!
The truth right here.
Very helpful.. Great video work and explanations overall. Thank you!!
Thank you!
Hi. Very good and useful video. I am going to install large porcelain tiles on a patio around a house. The house sits on a rock and it is surrounded with concrete retaining walls limiting the perimeter of the patio. This area has various thickness and has been partially filled with sand during the construction process. I am planning to use two beds of gravel and one layer of hydro sand to lay the tiles. My question is: what should I do with the thick sand base prior to laying the gravel? Should I remove it (a hell of a job!), compact it (how?), or else?
Thank you for your expertise. Pierre
That is a tough one without being able to see it in person. I’d contact a local contractor to be able to provide some insight.
Can we mix jointing sand with dry cement to fill the gaps then wet it after?
Second question: I've seen builders mix cement and jointing sand and spread it all over the flat bed of sharp sand, put the slabs down, then wet the slabs for a few minutes. What do you reckon? Is it a good idea?
It depends on building practices where you are located. We are in canada and wouldn’t do that. You’d likely look at an exterior grout for your first question.
Super educational! I'm doing my first interlocking pad for a shed and I don't have a gas compactor but do have a tamper. It's only 9 x 11. Could I put a carpet down and use the hand tamper? Or will that be a waste of time?
It is not as ideal for efficiency and consistency. But perhaps for a shed pad that is not super important
Thank you for the reply!! Take care!
Hi. Could I have the link for the compacting pad? I am planning on renting a machine but do not know that they will have the right kind of pad or a pad at all. I have a bluestone (flagstone cut) patio that the polymeric sand failed on after 2 years. After a lot of research I see all the places the contractor cut corners and why it did fail. I am hoping I can do a better job. Anything to prevent breakage on this step aside from a good pad?
Unfortunately it gets a bit difficult with 1” thick square cut flagstone. You would be better hunting down a rolling compactor. Weber and Bartell Global each make one. It will prevent breaks.
As im laying my pavers, some of them are higher or lower and I have been using a rubber mallet. But if i rent a compactor will that, adjust those high areas and low corners of the pavers? Some seem to stick up more and the mallet sometimes only gets them down so far into the sand .
This could be a variance issue with the pavers. I don’t know the product but that could be the issue. Minor differences are taken care of with the compaction when installing the jointing compound.
You are very good at what you do. When compacting large pavers, 12" x 12" and larger, are you using plywood? If so is it half inch? Also how many centrifugal pounds is that plate compactor? Thank you for producing great content.
Thank you for watching and commenting! Yes, we use plywood but prefer to use a mat on the compactor. The plywood is 1/2” and the compactor is 3,500 lbs
@@iamahardscaper Thank you, I appreciate your fast reply. Is that the biggest compactor you would use for your final compaction? Would the Weber C2 (5,600 lb) be too much?
Yeah I would go with something smaller or try that on a low speed
Instead of renting a compactor I was looking at purchasing one from lowes. Yardmax 2500lbs compaction force plate compactor. Do you think this will be undersized or can I just do more passes? Thanks in advance.
For consolidating polymeric sand that will do 👍
I put in 16 by 24 slabs on a good size patio bought them from a home center had proper base down but some of them broke at touch of a rubber Mallett can I use plywood and a rubber pad also to keep them from breaking? Helpful video thanks
Is it from a big box store? Typically the slabs are not of high quality if so. If the slabs are not touching (you are spacing them out yourself) and there is enough of a gap between them for sand, you may not need significant force to consolidate the sand. Yes use plywood or a rubber pad for sure.
Thanks yes they are gapped with tabs touching and yes I did buy them from a box store will know not to do that next time Thanks
I have been installing pavers since 1982, and rarely compact them after they are laid. My opinion has always been that, if you have to run the plate over them, the grade was not perfect enough. Almost nothing bothers me more than getting all your lines 99% straight, and having the
plate kick them in every direction. Plywood stops this, but anything on the bottom of the plate does not. To settle poly sand, hammer each paver 2 or 3 times with a rubber mallet before watering
I respect the opinion. I do find that there is nothing like settling pavers into place than running a compactor over them. The same action you cant get with a rubber mallet. It should allow the pavers to seat themselves into the bedding material and the polymeric sand to work its way down. I agree with the lines thought! ICPI says you should compact before even installing the polymeric which really messes up those lines!
Should you compact polymeric sand if you are resanding? I would think this could crack the pavers if they are already set in the base material?
Hey should I do my cement border before or after I compact pavers to prep for polymeric?
Edge restraint first then poly
When do you place the side plastic edging to your interlocking (before or after you compact)?
Edging before compaction
Great info! What about maintenance a few years after installation. When pressure washing clears out most of the sand that’s covered with moss.
Would you still use a compactor or is brushing in the sand good enough?
Still compact. You still need to get at least an inch of depth or more depending on the manufacturer to be able to reinstall sand and at that depth you still need to consolidate with vibration to get the sand to the bottom of the joint.
@@iamahardscaper Excellent, thank you!
@@richardpowers4200 Don't Pressure wash!!!! Use paver cleaner!
Is there a point where the compression force will damage the pavers even with the protective pad. I saw somewhere that 5000 lbf compactors are better for this step than 7000 lbf compactors but I can not find a reversible 5000 lbf compactor
Check Bartell globals 2750 I believe it is 5000. You can always use a lower throttle on the compactor. But I wouldn’t use a massive compactor for this step.
Does compacting apply to Architectural Slabs as well? A few of mine are a bit wobbly, but I'm concerned about breakage when compacting. Thanks!
If you have slabs, then a roller compactor would be worth renting or owning. Compacting applies to everything.
Hi thanks for sharing the information, I’ve fairly large size patio in decent shape but there are spots low and high and last year I power washed so no sand in the joint at this point, I’ve few contractors looking at it and asking me to redo whole patio by removing and redoing base saying that there is no proper drainage. My budget is tight and wanted to know that will it be a good idea to relevel those spots by adding sand, add side edge and add polymeric sand with compactor compared to redoing it. Please share your thoughts.
I’m sorry, I wouldn’t be able to say without seeing it and what the base looks like. Any small fix would most likely be a bandaid and doesn’t fix the cause of the problem.
@@iamahardscaper thanks for your inputs.
Do you use polymetric sand when using gatorbase? It seems like there is nothing below the polymetric sand for it to bind to if it is just the gatorbase (and sometimes some concrete sand for leveling)?
I do use polymeric sand for most gator base projects. The interlocking that comes with concrete sand coming up into the joints of the pavers is not as important (in my opinion) with foot traffic like a residential patio as it is with a vehicular application. Also why Gator Base is only rated for pedestrian residential
We put our sand down before we rented to plate compactor.......is it ok to use the compactor on top of the sand layer?? We haven't put the pavers down yet. Great video. Thanks!
To compact the base and bedding layer? As long as the compactor is rated to compact however many inches you have installed of the base.
Would this application be appropriate for large (up to 36x36) PA bluestone?
You would want to still consolidate the jointing compound but not with a compactor like this. There are roller compactors that work good for that materials.
In the process of finishing up my small patio. Have the sublease and panel bases all set up. Just waiting for the pavers, and then will add the polymeric sand. Is it okay to use a hand tamper to get the sand into the crevices?
It is not ideal, as it is more so the vibration and not the ramming action that you are looking for to have for this. but in a pinch if that is all you have you can make it work
@@iamahardscaper It would be more convenient since I'd have the rent the plate compactor again. Though if renting again means better results and longevity, spending a little bit more shouldn't be a problem. Just wanted to check first!
Do you tamp after the concrete edging drys or can you tamp while concrete edging is still wet?
Either. I am typically doing it after it is dry but I think it is recommended to do it while wet.
Do you have any experience using a plate compactor with a pad on Techo Bloc pavers? Their installation instructions says they do not recommend using plate compactors on their Blu 60 product but their poly sand instructions say to use a plate compactor. I have a 1850lb plate compactor with a pad and wondering if there is any risk cracking the pavers.
Yes we use a compactor with pad all the time on Blu and it’s fine. Always need the pad though
I laid down a small 9x9 area of pavers. I want to use my hand tamper to compact them. I have a piece of dense rubber for the bottom of the tamper. Should I use the polymeric sand prior to compacting or compact once and again with the sand? Is a hand tamper sufficient for a 9x9 area?
It’s not what ICPI would want, but for a small area I’ve done it before. I would just do it after sweeping in the sand.
@@iamahardscaper thanks, I used a power compactor for the sub base. Just don’t want to rent again for the pavers unless absolutely necessary.
should I use this technique if im re sanding existing pavers after I clean all the old crap and mold out of old joints? I have a job booked next month and its my biggest one so far and I wanna do a great job on the re sanding of the pavers. thanks for the awesome content..
Yup, still need to consolidate that sand. Just make sure you protect the pavers with a mat or something
@@iamahardscaper i was just gonna get that pad you had. Would that be all i needed ?!
Yup, just check the photo on Amazon to make sure it will work with your compactor
So when you compact the pavers with the jointing compound how much lower will the paver go down?
If you are using concrete sand at 1” as the bedding layer you might see 1/4”. If you are using HPB (1/4” angular crushed clean stone) you will see minimal)
This is great information, just a quick question. How much will the compactor set the pavers into the bed? I’m laying a paver patio in the States using Nicolock Alpine Contemporary pavers, average paver size is 15” x 15” (38 x 38 cm), on a bed of HPB. Should I set the pavers a little high before compacting. Thank you!!
using HPB, i set them only slightly higher. less than 1/8" per 1" depth of bedding
When compacting pavers into the paver base, approximately how deep into the base will the paver travel? I'm asking because I need to match the height of the pavers over the base with the height of a paver border on a fixed wall. Thank you
If you use an inch of concrete sand it would be about 1/8” to 1/4”. If you are using HPB it will be less than 1/8”
The rental company gave us a compactor with a rubber pad on it. But we need to compact the soil and the 3/4 gravel area (not pavers). Does the rubber pad affect the compaction level?
Yes, I would take the rubber pad off for that compaction.
We use building sand and cement for interlocking content but its extremely dusty , can you wet it first ( apply lot of water ) before compacting
is that for the joints? In our freeze-thaw climate that would likely crack. I wouldn't know about wetting it before compacting, but I probably wouldnt
Great video! I set in some pavers today and they are not 100% even. Will the compactor even then out for me??
Minor imperfections yes. Nothing more than about 1/8” a little less
@@iamahardscaper ok thank you!!
The most pain in the butt part of this process is the water application of the poly sand post compaction and post sweeping. Many of the sand companies have made vids but don't walk you thru the exact specifics of how much and how long to apply water. AND every company is different. It took me 3 years to finally figure out how to apply G2 then my local supplier changed manufacturers!!! DANGIT! Thoughts? Might make for a good vid for you to make.
Nothing about the installation of poly sand is fun to be honest. I agree, it is a pain to know exactly how much to water especially when it is such a crucial step of the project. I have a poly sand installation video, but even I am ambiguous on the watering process because every manufacturer is different and there is no point in highlighting any specific manufacturer in my videos or to do a video for each manufacturer. Thanks for commenting!
Do I need to plate compact porcelain pavers? Or will they brake upon impact?
They would break when using a plate compactor. Try a roller compactor or contact the manufacturer to see what they recommend.
I do have a question. Is compaction still necessary when using paver base panels? And does any part of the compaction process change?
You will need to compact your subsoil. If you are using concrete sand as the bedding layer on top of geotextile, you will have to compact that. I recommend using a 1/4” crushed clean stone so you don’t have to. Then you will have to compact with a pad when installing the jointing compound.
@@iamahardscaper thank you so much for your reply your HPB video saved my project.🙏
When laying pavers next to a concrete patio how high above the concrete level should the pavers be set before final compaction? I’ve read 1/8 to 3/8 so the final paver height is level with concrete . What correct? Thanks
If you are using concrete sand as your bedding layer at 1”, I would go 1/4” higher. If using HPB at 1”, I would go 1/8”.
@@iamahardscaper I’m using 1” of sand over 6” of compacted road base
@@iamahardscaper thanks for responding so quickly! Keep making great videos
Thank you!
Thank you. My question is.... is there a major difference/ need to consider a more expensive plate compactor ( Harbor Freight vs. ????) Are there any must have features I should look to have on the machine and/ or would make a big difference in time labor? Ie. Paver roller
That’s a great question. We have an episode on the How to Hardscape Podcast about this with Bartell Global. Essentially: engine quality, cast iron plate, and the compaction force are the three main things you’re looking at. Compaction force will increase the size of lifts you can do and efficiency but the more force the heavier the machine.
I’ve got 450mm square x 40mm thick concrete pavers to compact. Would the plywood be enough to help prevent cracking? The hire shops don’t have the pads to clamp to the plate.
I would test it on a small area and then go slowly through the project. It’s tough to say, but I would think they would break to be honest. A roller compactor would be better.
@@iamahardscaper well, I tried a small area first and had success. I used carpet and underlay with a ply sheet on top. Seemed to do the trick. Thanks for your help.
👍
The thickness of the plywood that you use looks to be 5/8 inch thick. Is that correct? Good video. Thank you.
I think this is only 1/4” but I could be wrong
even if you use HPB + synthetic base. Should I do this step?
Yes absolutely whenever installing any jointing compound
Can this be done with a hand tamp and a board of wood for protection?
You want the vibratory action of a compactor rather than a ramming force.
@@iamahardscaper got it and thanks!
Just completed my paver patio and I'm glad I asked you about this. I really wanted to turn my rental compactor in to save 80 bucks, but I decided to keep it for an extra day. It significantly vibrated the polymeric sand well into the joints. I don't regret it. I also used a board of wood method. It still put a tiny hairline crack in one of the pavers (they are large 16x16) but it's hardly noticeable unless pointed out and they are all very well locked in place. Thank you for the awesome advice!
Is 24 hr drying time adequate before a whole week of rain?(PNW rainy season starts early this year😫) I m doing the gator base(small enclosed L-shape yard). Layer pavers now. But I only have less than 48 hr before the rain starts!!! I’m stressed out af. Not sure if I should wait for a dry window to do poly sand. It may never dry until winter. Curious to know what you would do in this scenario?
I’d check the bag of the manufacturer to see what it says that it needs. If it is 24 hours you may be okay. But I’d prefer to play it safe personally. Wait for a window. The trouble with that is leaves start to fall and will fall in the joints of your pavers and you’ll have to blow them out before sanding
@@iamahardscaper Can I cover the area with non-woven fabric to keep debris out? Also, do the pavers have to be bone dry before sanding? That’ll be tough in this season…it’s so frustrating 😫
Yeah anything will help keep the debris out. And yes they have to be dry. We use torches at this time of year to dry out the joints to be able to sand. Tiger torch with a propane canister helps with this.
@@iamahardscaper TYSM!!!
Can you use a jumping jack compactor for this?
No, you want vibration not a ramming action
@@iamahardscaper BUT!!! They are fun to use 😀
Cheap protective pad that works great for tamping directly on the pavers is a thick commercial truck mud flap!
Haha I love that!
Very informative but I can’t find the link for the pad
Thank you! You can find the link under the first paragraph in the description with the heading Compactor Pad.
Do you think a heavy duty tarp would work, maybe folded on itself?
I’ve seen a lot of things people have tried. Carpet, fabric, anything they can. Technically no it is not supposed to be something that will soften the compactor against the pavers
I wonder if anyone has just cut plywood for the base of compactor then fasten or clamp
I’m sure somebody has, but it would break down faster than a poly pad
OK so steps are....after the permeable pavers are laid the edges need to be cemented, you clean the pavers then you compact the pavers before putting anything in-between the pavers, then put a first round of fill in between the pavers, compact again and then fill again but not all the way to the top
You got it!
Does it not crack the cement edge restraint?
Does carpet work as well as a pad or plywood to prevent damaging pavers?
I’d go plywood before using carpet. Carpet softens the impact too much. Plywood too, but to a lesser extent.
@@iamahardscaper Thanks for the guidance. Really appreciate it.
Tried to tell my sister this. She also wanted her patio blocks so tight you can’t really sweep any sand in the cracks. Not to forget they did an entire back yard and didn’t use class 5 below the pavers. Every way how not to install patio blocks🤦♂️
oh no
How many pounds of pressure on the compactor?
this one is at 3,700 I believe
EXCELLENT Video!
Thank you!
Where I buy?
The pad? There is a link in the description
Hey😃 Where did you find those String along adjustable collars? I can't find them. Home Hardware has them in them in their warehouse but that's take too long, IHL never heard of them. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Also, I DMed you on Instagram about getting a quote.
Thanks Carl! Take a look back at the string line video you will see a link to them in the description if it is worth getting them from Amazon.
@@iamahardscaper Tx. I had already checked your link. Currently unavailable. No big surprise there. I'll try Best way Stone. Tx again
You should be able to get them from a stone supplier real quick. Anybody that deals with Great North Hardscape, they are the distributor
@@iamahardscaper Tx. Yup, I'm going to start calling now. It'd likely be so much easier in the US. Even their Amazon carries it.
@@iamahardscaper Best way Langstaff & Weston 👍
there are roller compactors that do this job without using anything underneath
Yup 👍
Who the fuck layed those Rosebel pavers? What the F###!!!!
😮