This Technique Will Change Throwing
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- čas přidán 5. 01. 2023
- Will this new technique change shot put and discus? Olympic Throws Coach Dane Miller breaks it down.
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My problem is going to be with the heel turn going into the traditional sweep out of the back. I think this is going to create a real problem of "falling back" out of the back. I see this as one of the worst problems I face. Because the weight is going to be on the heel, there is going to be a real tendency to fall backward. On a couple of your demonstrations in the video, you did this. The concept has merit, but only if the rate of acceleration can be matched in the longer path. Velocity is equal to acceleration x time. If the acceleration rate is constant and the time (path) is increased, then the velocity is higher. If the acceleration is lower, even with the increased time, the velocity drops. I think this is what you are going for with having someone to do this for a period of years so they can get the acceleration rate back to where it was in the normal (or familiar) technique. Balance (stability) has always been the most important factor in acceleration. If the brain senses instability, it will "throttle" back strength available so as not to incur injury. My feeling is that Mr. Crouser is slow out of the back to insure stability so as to bring 100% of his available strength into the final acceleration phase. In the end, the only things that determine how far the shot flies is The height at release, the angle of release and the velocity at release. If your son gives this a real chance, I will be quite interested to see the results. thanks and thanks to your son!!
I have been thinking about this a lot. It seems interesting in the development of the "style" (ie the extra 90 degrees rotation). It is just a thought, but instead of a heel turn out of the stance I would be interested in a crouch toe turn. I am thinking about a style similar to Andy Bloom. He and C.J. Hunter both had styles that forced them to get the right leg around the left instead of over. I theorize that this would keep a thrower "off his back: as it wer, through the extended turn. Just an idea and thanks for getting this out. Fun to theorize!!
Nice thoughts, especially on the point that stability is a big factor in maintaining acceleration. I guess this whole concept is based on the longer period of the pendulum (the sweep leg in this example) creating more force across the circle as it has had extra time in which to accelerate and hit top velocity at the centre of the circle (given a solid pivot to work around) as Force (momentum) = mass x velocity
Going to try it out. I actually used to try it without the heel turn in the 1990s😂
What everyone has forget I the concept of momentum. The trade of the glide and the rotational technique is that with glide you transfer better (most of the energy is transfer to the implement) but rotating you keep energy with you (because you keep turning the all body) and produce much more speed than the glide. With more speed, it will be faster but will require more strength to transfer energy to the shot and produce the momentum
Hey Dane, in my mind it's an "elongated rotation" or a "long spin" because you lengthen or extend the sweep and duration of travel the shot/ disc makes across the ring. Like you say, theoretically, I agree that it makes sense if the implement gains more speed over distance traveled in the circle it should mean more distance in the sector. Though i wonder if it's like having a 10ft long hammer wire, if the length of travel in either the implement or movement is increased does that mean in a practical sense it's actually executable by an athlete to the point where you could see a net benefit? I think the crux of the technique is that heel turn and controlling the nature of the implement from wanting to veer off from the thrower around the 180 degree mark while still in the circle. I think there's merit in the theory and am curious if it could potentially work if the movemet is mastered. Freaking love these kinds of vids Dane, experiment away brother! This is how our sport evolves!
Curious if anybody has had any luck buying bigger size Nike rotational shoes. I’ve been looking for months with no luck
That is really interesting!
Looks like the start combines weight/hammer footwork with discus/shot rotation.
I'm interested to try as Dane M seems to have a good take on most athletic endeavours... Theoretically the reversed start (standard) spin is a way to create a whole-body torsion whilst breaking the inertia of the implement + the thrower's bodyweight and continually moving the shot forwards once the initial leg sweep starts towards the front of the circle... This technique advocates a small reverse movement (towards the back of the circle) before the torque kicks in and accelerates the ball towards the front of the circle. I imagine that people with low leg strength and a lack of core-stability might suffer a loss of control of the load as they drive their wind leg out wide and high. In some ways, the hefty 7.26kg/ 16 pounder that senior men throw might act as a counterweight and improve stability, whereas the 4kg/ 10lb ball thrown by women might not counterweigh so effectively...
Right, lets find some volunteers from my group to try this out!! Dane, I'll send you their medical bills... ;D
The stability of the technique is an important factor Wolfgang pointed out during his 1990 clinic. The extra degrees made for a less stable technique. Jay Silvester was well known for this with his left foot on the center line and Hein-Derick Neu had the same issue. While he said it was possible to throw a few cm further it became inconsistent.
IMO with the balance of the throw in the back of the ring already being such difficult task I don’t want to complicate it further. How ever I think it would also depend on the style of spin you use for either implement. As far as I see this heel turn requires a swing kick type of movement.
I also find it interesting that the East Germans, John Powell, Kanter, and Stahl have found it better to move to having the right foot on the midline to shorten the turn out of the back and increase speed rather than length.
I would call it the 545 because that’s roughly the amount you turn
Do you reckon you can compensate for lack of twich? It appears to be more like my golf swing...too much wind-up so in the rare event that I am under control...I put a bunch of power into the ball. Unlike golf...I get five mulligans throwing.
I think this idea is brilliant. What happens if we pinch the knees together going into the middle. long lever to short lever means more acceleration based on conservation of angular momentum. Gunna play with it and see what happens.
Any news on how it went?
Let’s call it the love method after coach love
I believe it was Neu from W.Germany who had some succes with that, around 68 m.
Using it
I like to test that out
Highly competent analysis as usual. One issue I’ve noticed is when making a point there’s a tendency to get sidetracked n related observation. Just show your point front to back then break it down.
My physics instructor said regarding teaching or giving a presentation, TELL THEM WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO TELL THEM, THEN TELL THEM, THEN TELL THEM WHAT YOU TOLD THEM!! As in intro, main body then summary
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An interesting idea for a technique I've never seen (interesting to me at least), stems from the question as to why is shot the only throw that starts with the implement as close to the body as possible and then forced away. Hammer and discus both encourage distance from the body to increase centripetal force and create the throw distance. What would shot look like if the shot was held at arms length like discuss and thrown like a discuss. I realize the shot is significantly heavier but we're talking about 6-6 280 pound guys here not high schoolers. Surely they could control and offset the arms length shot weight with their massive bodies to maintain balance the way a hammer thrower does with all the centripetal force.
I’m sure it could be done but in the event the implement must be in the neck, it’s the rule
The shot must be placed close to the neck and resting on the shoulder, while keeping it in that position the entire time until it is released. If there was a way to transition to an extended arm just before the release above the shoulder, that may be within the rules
@@rogerm3708 Yes you're right of course. I wonder when and why that rule was instituted. Also I wonder if my idea for a technique would allow for greater distances than the current technique (were it legal) or if it's a moot point.
just plain, The Advanced Spin
On this concept of adding more length to the path of the shot what if we add a halfturn to the beginning of the throw, where the traditional sweep to the front would actually be a sweep to traditional place of the left foot, and the movement is the same after there.🤷♂️
Latest technique 👌
We used to call it the super spin
With the leg cocking, it almost seems as if this would be a prime throw for a Sumo wrestler to have a go at.
name: Spin Plus (though the next WR and first 77' throw will come from the "Crouser Electric Slide")
Well if an extra 90 degrees helps, why not back it up an additional 90 degrees and start facing the front of the circle? Get an extra 180 turn in more than Krauser and the best do currently?
Hey! So iv'e been throwing for about 3 years now and im in 10th grade right now. Last year in 9th grade (15 years old) I hit a 45 foot mark and placed second in my state division. I love throwing a lot but I was wondering if thats actually a good throw for my age. I want to try and pursue for college and Im currently (16 years old) getting close to the 50 foot mark. Is this a good mark to possibly go professional one day? I would love to but if i dont have a shot at at least making it to college level I dont want to put in all my time to the sport. So what im asking is, Is this a good throw for my age or not?
Yeah, 45 ft as a freshman is pretty damn good. If you’re throwing over 50 now as a sophomore, than you’re on track to throw 60+ as a senior. If you keep at it, you might have a “shot” at going pro.
It has to do more with genetics. Are you tall with long arms? do you have the frame to be 6'6 280 pounds? or are you 5'8" 160#? If you are a skinny 6'3" kid I'd say you got a lot of room for improvement. If the latter, probably not so much.
It seems mathematically the +90 deg should produce positive results.
"+90 technique".
I think if some athletes take on this technique it will be several seasons before we see any consistent throwing from it, as it was at the beginnings of the spin technique
I love this. I could definitely profit from this technique, if I were 60 years younger.
I'm 52 and was throwing earlier today. No word yes on when the right side of my back will loosen up to the point where I can again breathe, pain-free. :)
just curious, why the heel turn? cant you just do the entire pivot off the ball of your foot? it seems like an unneeded step added to the movement.
can you just show the throw with the new technique. skimmed through still now clue how they used to throw vs now
We can call it Neo-Rotational
720 Glide
Yeah, it's the Tom Walsh 2.0.
Direk Neu from GDR technique. Maybe this technique could be more succesfull in shot put than in discus, who knows. The main problem with this technique is that you first go to the back of the circle and then you go again to the middle. Maybe this could brake your rithm, doesn't It?
czcams.com/video/MscClgG_V54/video.htmlsi=8g34PfxGVS2RjL3x
My opinion from watching this is I’m not sure this technique could create enough consistency to be beneficial to do. Look at Tom Walsh. On Andy day he could show up and go 23 meters but tends to throw 21.00
"+90° Spinning Technique"
Elongated move has to be controlled at the backend of the circle. Your son pushing off to the right because it has caused unlevel release.
This is old tecniq coach
Doubtful.