Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S3E15: Yesterday's Enterprise
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Tasha Yar had previously earned the respect of one Klingon. In this episode, she earned the respect of them all.
"Let us make sure that history never forgets the name 'Enterprise'." That line always makes me really emotional. I genuinely teared up when you said it. I usually do when watching the episode too.
"Let us make sure history never forgets..."what are you doing Huu mann scum back to work crack /sizzle ⚡
The rumination is longer than the episode!
It better be for my Favourite episode!
Jason Crowell hell ya it is. Glorious !
I think at one point, Picard referred to the Enterprise as a battleship.
Indeed, he did. Early in the episode when he was describing the Enterprise C as "the immediate predecessor to this battleship".
You mention the UBoats. There was an incident where a German U-Boat torpedoed a transport (The RMS Laconia) and rescued the troops and passengers (which included civilians). They aided the survivors and were cruising under a Red Cross flag with civilians and attached life rafts visible, but were attacked by a U.S. bomber. The incident drastically changed German policy on rescuing survivors. One plane.
"I do not fire on defenseless people."
My Jewish ancestors must have been armed then!
I like Star Trek Online versions for it. That it is the "Federation from the future" aka Daniels in the Temporal cold war making sure Sela is born. Because without Sela the Iconian War doesn't end and the Federation and Klingon are destroyed while the galaxy burns, there is no New Romulus... mean there is no Alliance with Romulan, Klingons, Federation and Dominion in the future to sign the temporal accords. Fun thing is its one of the things that Silik talks about in Enterprise that the Federation and its allies do change the timeline in there favor, and changing the timeline to make sure someone is born to bring about events would differently do it.
"The trial never ended, Captain."
To me this episode resonates closely with “This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can.”(Cmdr Evans, Battle of Samar), as a reminder of how archiving a mission objective can be much more significant then the survival of the soldiers doing it - and the same soldiers being very well aware of that fact.
25:10. It could be that she is also partially in the nexus, so she has the ability to figure out time since the is part of time and yet not part of time.
This raises the question of just how the Klingons were able to take on the whole federation after Praxis. A crippling incident that never seems to have any consequences.
Was so hyped to hear your breakdown on this episode. Great rumination as always.
5:26 was the moment when you shifted into an alternate timeline. ;)
This is one of only two episodes where the Klingons really feel like a deadly warrior race to me (the other being DS9's "Nor the battle to the Strong") Coming back from their moon blowing up to be on the verge of victory over the Federation is quite a turnaround. I guess in that timeline Kirk's "let them die" approach may have been better!
I like Garrett and Castille - the Enterprise-C feels like a ship worthy to bear the name even in this brief glimpse we see of it.
I'm in the minority preferring Yar's "Skin of Evil" exit in principle, but this is still a strong use of the character. My only real problem with the plot was Guinan knowing that she died a meaningless death - quite a specific bit of knowledge about someone she never met in the regular timeline.
All in all, excellent episode. It's really impressive how different they made the alternate Enterprise feel.
Yar may well have met Guinan on 10-Foreward, and we just didn't see it. Chekov recognized Khan in STII, even tho we never saw him in Space Seed. It was later explained that Chekov probably was serving on t Enterprise then, just not on t bridge or anyplace where we saw him meet Khan.
Guinan has an unconscious link with all her other alternatives.
IIRC Wesley Crusher refers to the three Klingons ships as "battlecruisers." Historically, this was a naval warship with the armament of a battleship, but with less armor and correspondingly greater speed. Used for raids and such, but tended to get clobbered by actual battleships. They were death for smaller ships though, as heavy cruiser couldn't simply run away and get out of range.
Such Klingon craft were apparently unable to withstand hits from the "battleship" Enterprise either. But 3:1 odds with Enterprise at a tactical disadvantage made the difference.
I liked how alternate timeline Picard was essentially acted the same as Picard in First Contact, a version of the character with military action in mind rather than his usual ethically/right minded personality. This is a man who has spent the past twenty years in action, just as First Contact Picard is a man who has been brought to the brink of violence by the Borg.
19:00 Sejanus in _I Claudius_ was my first exposure to Patrick Stewart, and Claudius in _Hamlet_ my second, both when I was a teenager and therefore before TNG was created. I remember being impressed with Stewart without yet knowing who he was nor knowing that it was the same actor in those two instances. It was years after TNG started before I recognized Stewart and went back to see him again as Sejanus (I could not find a video of the _Hamlet_ production, unfortunately).
As a character change, I noticed Riker is very chippy in the alternative timeline. He seems annoyed with Picard the whole time.
I caught that as well, a hint of hostility in his expressions and tone.
Riker's relationship with Picard in this episode is a lot more like his relationship with Jellico in "Chain of Command." They are professional, but not friendly. The whole thing has a very martial feel to it. Notice that in the alternate timeline, Picard never calls him "Number One," only "Commander."
I only have one question for this episode:
Why didn’t Garret recognize Picard?
He’d been a starship captain for eleven years by the time she was coming from, and he was becoming a legend as the “youngest captain in Starfleet history” among other things. Why couldn’t they have a throwaway line after he says “You’re aboard a federation starship” where she mumbles something like “I know that voice… the Stargazer?” or just- anything to really nail down how old he is.
Would every captain personally know every other Starfleet Captain?
This TNG era has more than twelve ships. She is a senior captain, flagship I presume.
Stargazer was a small ship.
Actually I don't know that they served at the same time. Picard may have looked like a senior citizen lacking hair but was 57, when he took command of the Enterprise D.
The Klingon ships are not Birds of Prey as we know them ( small scout class vessel we see in STIII ), but they are (meant to be )a much larger version that is essentially a cruiser. It didnt come across very well as the model(s) used were not alteted or scaled up in anyway. I wished they had used K'tinga's instead. Great rumination.
I heard the model had problems and they couldn't get the wings to fold down
@@athrunzala6919 Yeah, the model has motors to move the wings, and the motors were not reliable. Of course, the model had also been built around 1982 or so for a single movie, and it was now 1990.
@Lorerunner there is an example of surrender trickery in Search for Spock. It's craft expensive, but... effective. The Kirk Maneuver.
to address your point on the same model representing multiple ship types in TNG - kitbashing a ship of the week, without a lot of fancy electronics and lighting, was pretty cheap compared to filming it and getting it into the show as an effects shot. So they had to rely on existing stock elements as much as they could to keep the budget under control. Therefore a K'vort class Cruiser is just a Bird of Prey that we say is bigger than a B'rel class bird of prey - they just happen to look identical (which makes no sense visually at all but does make sense on the show's balance sheet, so there it is)
It was Trelane. He created chaos during Q Squared. All the spacial anomalies were Trelane fault, harnessing the Heart of Darkness.
I remember watching this episode the evening it aired with my mother and sister, we were so riveted it was like watching a movie.
I love the national emergency part. So good. This is a great video LR thank you.
There is one more form of time travel that stargate sg1 often used... localized timetravel. The idea that a bubble in space is on repeat, but the rest of the universe is operating as normal.
Steven King often uses a corrected timeline... where keepers attempt to fix the good evil balance of the timeline as the time traveler messes it up... which you directly see in his jfk book (11/22/63)as well as parts in the dark tower, series....even the unwritten part (of not losing the horn)
You mention the fame of the name 'Enterprise'. The irony is that it was named Enterprise in TOS because the USS Enterprise WAS ALREADY FAMOUS in 1966.
The original series Constellation class starships are named after WWII American Aircraft Carriers. Lexington, Saratoga, Enterprise etc, they were all recognisable names to the generation old enough to be making the show and remembering WWII. Enterprise took part in nearly all the aircraft carrier battles ever fought,. If you look at its battle history it reads like something a bad fan fiction writer created complete with massive plot armour.
I get the feeling that all forms of time travel exist in Star Trek, but the method used changes how it actually affects the timeline. Artificial time travel tends towards actually changing the timeline because there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise and in-universe the characters likely would know that and wouldn't want to be stuck living in a timeline where things went horribly wrong and specifically focus on avoiding splitting off new timelines, while accidental time travel tends to be all over the place because the causes vary greatly in actual function and can do things like tossing a Romulan mining ship and Spock into a new timeline, or causing strange events like Janeway and Paris to end up preventing the destruction of a civilization due to an explosion they simultaneously caused and somehow prevented, while also never having gone back in time in the first place.
I've always thought this was weird, that the Federation was losing a war against the Klingons, as the Fed was a match for them in Kirk's day.
In fact, supposedly, the Klingons were terrified at the fact that they lost 3 ships to V'Ger, and the Feds beat it with one ship.
But, I used this, and the fact that we almost never see Ambassador and Constellation class ships, and instead see 80-100 year old Excelsior, Miranda, and Oberth class ships to mean that Federation shipyards after Sulu's day were producing the Ford Edsels of Starfleet.
Dockyard Supervisor: "Here's your new constellation ship; but, be careful, you even look at it for too long and it's going to explode!"
Admiral taking delivery: "That's awesom..... wait, what?"
DS: "Well, you wanted this ship to run at warp 9, right?"
Adm; "Yeah...???"
DS: "To get there, we built it out of warpcores and nacelles, and if you just tap on the side of it with a pencil it's going to explode!"
Adm: "Ummm, I'm not sure that I want this ship."
DS: "Well, you better get used to it, we have contract to produce 9000 of these pieces of garbage for you."
46:41 Yeah, why would a guy that just survived an encounter with death gravitate towards an attractive woman that is showing interest in him? Mind-boggling really. A question for the ages.
Great point and I love the sarcastic tone! I read this in my head and recognized the the sarcasm halfway through so by the end I was laughing!
I love Skin Of Evul, Legacy and Yesterday's Enterprise. All Yar or Yar related episodes.
In the book The Lost Continent, Sir Terry Pratchett described this kind of time travel - "everyone know it has always been there, but was it always there yesterday?" In it, among countless Australian references, he had two stories acting out concurrently, but one was thousands of years in the past and the actions of the people back then were having a ripple effect on the people, surroundings and actions in the present with only the present-timeline protagonist aware of the shifts.
To tie this back to Star Trek, Sela had been a member of the Romulans for years as soon as Military Tasha and the Enterprise C went back, but had she been a member for years before it went back or did she and her history suddenly pop into existence with that event and the Universe take a sudden sidestep to accommodate. This does indeed give you 3 timelines in this Episode - original, military and original+Sela.
Didn't think much of TNG's first session and didn't watch it in any major way until I just happened to catch Yesterday's Enterprise, Watched it religiously afterwards.
A tremendous episode! ⭐️⭐️⭐️
And thanks ever so much Lore for your in-depth critique which made me appreciate it more.
The actors and creators obviously gave their all. I especially paid attention to Crosby: she was “on” all the time. Goldberg too! No filler at all. Almost no music. The compelling dialogue didn’t need it. And the higher density of background sounds underlined the intensity instead.
🚩Head canon: others (Cardassians?) were helping the Klingons to conquer the Federation. (Maybe even Ferengi selling the spoils.)
Actually my favorite scene in this episode is the transition effect from one timeline to the next. Not sure how they'd use the same transition again through since Picard is famously at tactical in the Battleship Enterprise's last stand, a station he'd never operate in the prime timeline if he's in command.
In my head canon, as growing up, Worf adopted parents fed him plums
Organians
Nice to see one of my favorites watching one of my other favorites.
Best moment of the Rumination: 57:45
Someone should really make a compilation, "Ruminations out of context"
Pew pew pew!
Is "Yesterday's Enterprise" good? Yes, undoubtedly. Is it great? No. Is it the best of the best? Hardly. In fact, I'd say it's one of the most over-rated episodes in the franchise.
The problem is quite simple - what they did with Tasha Yar in it. Yar's meaningless death in "Skin of Evil" was easily the best moment of the god-awful first season and possibly one of the gutsiest decisions in all of Trek. Having a main character die a senseless death is something Trek writers seem adamantly opposed to doing. Every time a main character dies (and not in a "die and come back in the same episode" but in a "no really, we're serious, this is permanent" kind of way) they get a hero's style death. You can say that you don't like the way in which those deaths were executed (no pun intended) but I can't see how anybody can say that they weren't intended to be chances for the characters to go out in blazes of glory.
With Yar, on the other hand, we were given something we were never given before and haven't been given since. Her death was simple; it was common and ordinary. She didn't get to go out with guns blazing and she didn't get the hero's send-off. In my mind, that makes her much more of a relatable character. Not everyone gets to have a cliched hero's demise. In fact, it's pretty rare. Death can take anybody at a moment's notice without warning. You can be completely at unawares and then BOOM - you're dead. That's life and I wish Star Trek (which prides itself on examining the Human Condition) would show that more often. A huge part of the Human Condition is senseless, meaningless death.
Now, this isn't to say that Yar's death was handled perfectly in my opinion. "Skin of Evil" is by no means a perfect episode. Far from it! But the idea that one of the main characters could have a senseless death has always appealed to me.
Then along comes "Yesterday's Enterprise" and completely ruins that. We can't, simply CAN NOT!, have one of our main characters have that meaningless death. So, let's do a time travel story where she's still alive in an alternate timeline and gets to charge into battle with guns blazing and get that noble, heroic death that apparently every single person deserves. Well, every person except Captain Garrett and alternate-Riker, who die simply because they were near exploding panels. Screw them! But not Yar! Oh God, not Yar! She MUST have her noble self-sacrifice! This absolutely destroys the one humanizing aspect they gave the character (because, let's fact it, they really didn't do anything else of note with Yar while she was on the show).
Now, like I said, this isn't a bad episode, far from it. The acting is top-notch across the board (yes, even from Denise Crosby). The contrast between the peaceful Enterprise and the more militaristic Enterprise of the altered timeline is very well done and gives the episode an unbelievably evocative and memorable atmosphere. The question of whether it's preferable for 100+ people we know to die in order to save 40 billion people we only hear about second-hand is fascinating - a wonderful moral dilemma for our heroes to face. And the world-building of how the Federation and the Klingon Empire came to be allies is nicely executed.
If they had left Yar out of the story, I would rate it much higher. As it sits though....
8/10
I understand where you're coming from. I would just like to point out that Alternate Tasha is the one who got the hero death. In the original timeline, Tasha still died that meaningless death because there were two Tasha Yars in that timeline. However, this is only if you assume, like Lore's headcanon, that this is Type 1 time travel that deals with only two timelines. I agree with his headcanon, which is why I am bringing this up, but I will understand completely if you disagree with me because you believe that this episode created a new third timeline.
I think it's a "good, not great" episode as well, albeit for an entirely different reason. I never liked how Guinan just "felt" all the changes for reasons never really made clear. I would have liked the episode a whole lot more if the crew just concluded on their own that the best overall strategy would be for the Enterprise-C to return to its own time. Guinan's insight/influence didn't really amount to much anyway, except for a great debate between Picard and Guinan.
Still, if Picard and his senior staff discussed on their own and then approached Garrett about returning to Narendra III, the entire episode would have been much stronger.
Was your friend sfdebris who said the Captain sounded like Picard? I know he mentioned the same on his review.
A true masterpiece of an episode. I wish we could explore this dark timeline more in some way. Not including that STO mission.
I always associated the rift not to be a result of the weapons fire alone but as a catalyst to the region of space that it took place in. Here's what we know about Nerendra III. It's a Klingon Outpost and there was a battle. That's it. We know nothing in detail about the actual area of space. Maybe it's located in a weird Nebula or maybe the area had a higher chronton emissions than is normal or more trek space jargon. There's so many things that could be the result of this thing that the rift was never an issue for me.
Also in a dark war torn future Starfleet battle tactics are still bloody awful. 1. Get shot at loads. 2. Don't shoot back. 3. Get shot loads more. 4. Finally shoot and do bugger all damage while still being pummelled. No wonder they are losing this conflict. They completely suck at fighting. Not even the almighty power of The Sisko can save the fools.
maybe it was a Klingon research outpost...
Higher inverse chronaton emissions... or polarized chronaton emisions. One or the other undoubtably would cause rifts of that type.
"Or trying to to pull sooome kind of techno-babble out their bum" I am roaring right now. That's hilarious.
I really hope you do Picard some day. In an effort to avoid spoilers I will just say continuity and explanations abound.
Thanks for the great distraction as always Lore.
The last time I watched this I noticed, like you, in the briefing how Picard fidgets with his fingers - a really nice touch either by the director or P.S. himself. Also, in this universe Picard's command style is very different, where he would normally have a discussion and options first, then make a decision and brief, in this case he makes the decision in force; a necessity in war-time.
The best change in sound ambiance is the use of the TOS door sound effect.
53:50. Vis-a-vis the klingon Bird of Prey. My head cannon stuck with an explanation from FASA that the genius of the Bird of Prey hull is that the design scales up and down without having to make any major changes therefore they can have scout sized birds of prey, up to cruiser sized birds of prey. Also I think smaller Birds of Prey can be a threat to the Galaxy Class in the same way the Defiant can stand up against much larger ships.
The most important lore point of this episode is that shooter mcgavin was cryogenically frozen then unfrozen and joined starfleet
Well, he didn't get his gold jacket but he did get to command the Enterprise-C for 2 hours. If only a space tower would have fallen in front of the Romulan warbirds!
That, or he went further back in time than he thought and became a pro golfer.
38:00 A peace treaty means nothing. The Germans and the Soviets signed a peace treaty in 1939. He then invaded the USSR in 1941.
I assume you mean the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. It was a non-aggression treaty, not a peace treaty since the two countries were not at war in 1939. A non-aggression treaty only agrees that both sides with not attack the other or their allies thus freeing him up to attack anyone else without having to watch his back. He reneged on in 1941 once he'd decided he finished with everyone else and wanted to continue the genocidal land-clearance plan. Had the Western Campaign not happened, some "what if" historians have suggested he would have reneged on it much sooner (or not even bothered signing it).
57:25 They didn't know how to do space battles yet? Er, Wrath of Khan, possibly the greatest starship combat scene ever done? They simply couldn't get anywhere close to that on a TV budget in the early 90's.
I am writing this before I hear your theory on how to smooth over the timeline with regards to Star Trek VI, so if this is what you were thinking, I am sorry... Spock flat out says in Star Trek VI that the peace treaty was an end to hostilities between the Federation and the Klingons. To ne that sounds more like a mutual nonaggression pact. After the incident with the Enterprise C however, I could see the Klingons finally being moved to embrace the Federation as an ally rather than as that neighbor power that we don't have to worry about, if that makes sense.
The battle at the end annoyed me, because how long it took for the Enterprise to return fire. Here's how I'd imagine a redone version with a bigger budget would look like (I know ECM has never been a part of Trek Lore, but trek lore is hardly consistent):
The Klingons are famously good at stealth techniques. Their Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) has always been better than the Federation. As such, Klingon warships can acquire optimal target locks faster than Federation starships. Starfleet Naval Doctrine dictates starting a battle with evasive or aggressive maneuvers, to either negate the Klingon First Strike advantage, or close distance for an optimal target lock faster.
However the Enterprise-D’s mission is not to out-maneuver or defeat the Klingons in battle. The mission is to delay the enemy advance long enough for the Enterprise-C to escape into the temporal rift. Unfortunately, that leaves little room to maneuver. The Enterprise-D activates their own ECM, diverts all available power to forward shields, and prepares to take a pounding.
The 3 Klingon K’Vort cruisers do not disappoint, and open fire simultaneously. Several shots miss. Most hits are only glancing, but the Enterprise takes multiple direct hits. Minor damage to forward hull, moderate losses to shields. The Enterprise does not yet have an optimal lock, so Picard orders a hold-fire. He diverts warp power to shields, restoring most of their strength. Minor heat warning in power transfer couplings.
The Klingons continue to close distance. Their disruptors are recharging, so they opt to fire their own photon torpedoes. This time the Enterprise responds in kind. Having acquired an optimal lock on the lead ship, they open up with a burst of phasors and photon torpedoes. Only half the shots land, and most of those are glancing. Still enough for moderate enemy shield loss. The Enterprise again takes moderate forward shield losses, more minor hull damage. Damage control teams are dispatched. Again Picard diverts divert warp power, but is only able to restore partial shields. Power couplings are overheating.
Both sides hold fire, while their weapons recharge. The Klingons are trying to outflank the Enterprise. One Bird breaks formation, and makes a run for the limping Enterprise-C. Picard orders resetting the shields to 360-degree coverage, weakening them overall. Enterprise comes about to intercept. Warp power to phasers, and they fire with photon torpedoes. At near point-blank range, the Bird takes heavy damage. They suffer main power failure, and are disabled.
But now the Enterprise has put her back to the 2 remaining Birds. They close to near point-blank range, where ECM is useless. They target the engines, and fire. Enterprise returns fire with her rear photon launcher, doing moderate damage to one of the birds. But Enterprise takes the worst of it. Heavy losses to rear shields, moderate hull damage. Impulse engines down, moderate casualties reported. Enterprise has no chance of out-maneuvering the Klingons on just thrusters.
However the Enterprise isn’t out of this fight. She has numerous system redundancies, and 360-degree phasor firing arcs. Mr. Data does some clever power re-routing from the warp engines to weapons. With another burst of rear-facing phasors and torpedoes, the lead Bird is utterly destroyed. But the last Bird maneuvers out of torpedo range, and opens fire on the warp engines.
Enterprise takes critical damage. Explosions rock the ship, causing heavy casualties. Riker is killed. Shields offline. Rear photon launchers offline. Warp engines are down, reactor containment fields lose power. Life support systems fail across multiple decks. Geordi has no choice but to shut down main power, and switch to auxiliary. The Klingons hail the Enterprise, demanding unconditional surrender.
Picard is having none of it. He orders all available remaining power be diverted to weapons - including life support. Across the ship, the surviving crew scramble for emergency shelters. The air rapidly becomes toxic. Picard jumps to tactical, and manages a few anemic phasor blasts. The Klingon Bird is lightly damaged. They lock photon torpedoes. One single hit will be enough to destroy the Enterprise. The other disabled Bird has restored power, and is moving into firing range. Picard glares at the enemy ships defiantly, as fire rapidly engulfs his bridge.
And then the Enterprise-C finally enters the temporal rift. The timeline is repaired.
I would say that what we see in the Khitomer Accords is more like an Armistice-or glorified Cease Fire. An end to hostilities & elimination of the Neutral Zone.....but not actual PEACE. Like the Cease Fire between North & South Korea, though, that can still break down very easily, & maybe they saw the "abandonment" of a Klingon Colony-by Starfleet-might be viewed as reason ehough to restart hostilities (heck, we see in "Way of the Warrior" how sensitive they are & how easily they will end an Accord).
Can’t get behind the idea it was the right thing for Yar to leave the show. Whenever an actor is on a major tv show, that’s so rare it’s a real achievement. For the actress to think it meant she was on the cusp of a larger tv/film career is just... wrong. Same thing happened to David Caruso when he quit after 1 season of NYPD Blue. It may have ultimately been good for the show, but the notion the actress made the right choice is absolutely crazy. The height of hubris really. Let’s be clear: if you somehow beat all the odds and get cast as a regular on a tv series - hit or no - you’re SO LUCKY at that point there’s no excuse for complaining the character isn’t going to enough different places to satiate your artistic needs. Even after most of a full season. Like you’ve mentioned, hardly any other cast members were getting the development during season 1, to the point that Yar was set apart in any measurable way. And sure enough, turns out this was the high water mark of her tv/film career. She continues to this day to participate in small theater - that’s where an actor gets to push their abilities and fulfill their artistic needs. Not on a major tv show.
To smooth out the Peace Treaty issue, I believe that there was once mention of "The second Khitomer Accords", so this is the renegotiation and amendments to the Undiscovered Country treaty.
For the Enterprise C's time travel, perhaps the Klingon outpost was conducting research on time travel or other anomalies causing the episode to happen.
Tasha and Guinan then Picard and Tasha's scene near the end is the best drama in Star Trek and Denise's best performance
Underhanded dirty tricks like planting a bomb inside their homeworld
My favourite episode!
Since Nemesis, I always thought that when Tasha was captured (in another uniform made from different materials) they got Picards DNA for Shinzon of stray cells on her clothes. Plus they have mind reading tech so they got a lot of future Fed info. Sela's plan may have been to have a Klingon war with the Fed go the same way, same strategies and battles with secret Roman support for the later season 4 stuff. Shinzon being another plan and anexing Vulcan in Unifacation a 3rd plan. They're Romulan's they have a lot of plans.
I hate to point this out but the Klingons ask for the Enterprise's surrender, Picard has the badass "That'll be the day" line, then he swings back to the tactical station and fires at one of the Klingon ships. THEN the Klingons resume firing. They offered a sincere surrender and Picard gave them clear refusal. I'm not surprised you missed it as it happened very rapidly, Lore, but i felt it was significant enough to call attention to it especially because the part where Picard takes over tactical after that awesome line is one of my favorite Picard moments of all time!
Believe it or not, you quoting Picard about history never forgetting the name Enterprise actually made me tear up. Yesterday's Enterprise is definitely my second favorite TNG episode, despite the flaws it has. And even though the battle wasn't "exciting", it felt really brutal and serious, especially when compared to other TNG ship battles. I don't remember which episode it was, but there's that one where the bridge shakes and a stuntman redshirt basically does a backflip and Picard looks at him like "wtf is this guy doing?", and that's supposed the serious "we're in trouble moment".
I needed to rewatch this episode before listening to this because this is one of my favourite Star Trek episode, if not my favourite, and what I often use to introduce people to Star Trek. I like how this episode shows the best of Star Trek, the idealism of humanity with the concept of self-sacrifice, time travel, great character moments, and all of that.
I have a lot of thoughts about the Enterprise C and the Klingons. What made the Enterprise C's sacrifice so important is that it highlights the willingness of the Federation (at its best) to go out of their way, even to the death, to defend others, especially civilians which I believe were at Narenda III, from violence even if the person or group is a potential enemy. The hatred the Klingons had for humanity and the Federation comes from the belief that humans are hegemonic beings who forcibly assimilate others into their fold which makes the weak and barbaric, the Federation is therefore emblematic because the Klingons see it as the "homo-sapiens-only club" and the non-humans that were a part of it surrendered their way of life to humanity. You cannot blame the Klingons for feeling that way considering their initial contact with Archer was disastrous and then with the Augment Crisis and the aftermath of that destroying much of Klingon identity, and so when T'Kuvma came around with his cry of "Remain Klingon" it was just an assertion of Klingon identity but a rallying cry against the humanisation of Klingonness. Any peace with the Federation would ultimately break down and lead to war, the peace following the War of 2256-57 disintegrated until the Organians forced peace on the two in 2267, the Cold War ended with Khitomer out of desperation for Klingon survival but was doomed to fail as seen in the alternate timeline. But the Enterprise C demonstrated that humanity and the Federation are capable to not only doing one of the most honourable things one can do from a Klingon perspective, die in battle, but they died in battle for the sake of an enemy, and in that way humanity and the Federation earned the respect of the Klingons and that kind of respect is what bridged the cultural gap and made not only lasting peace possible but the Treat of Alliance happen. Michael Burnham taking the idea of the "Vulcan hello" might have created temporary grudging tolerance from the Klingons, but lasting peace with the Klingons come in sharing in battle (and thus when the treaty is broken in DS9 it is as a result of the Federation siding against them in battle).
I like the random pause with the alert, you should have made a comment about the timeline changing like Guinan did.
Temporal mechanics and time travel has been done.
Attempts to save Lincoln failed.
You can't go back and change the past. You were already there and the effects of anything you did in the past already has been accounted for.
In essence you were destined to go back in time.
Therefore Bill and Ted's Excellent adverture is an accurate model of time travel.
Non agression treaty.
You leave us alone and we leave you alone.
However why did the Organian's let the Klingons/ Federation go to war?
Unless in the other timeline /dimension the Organian's never got involved because they don't exist, never met....?
36:00 There is an episode of Star Trek where Troi is taking a test to qualify for a command position. She keeps failing the test and no one will tell her what she is doing wrong, until she discovers that to pass the test, she must order a friend to do something lethal.
I would assume everyone in command positions like Riker and Picard, and even Dr. Crusher has taken and passed this test.
So Picard *CAN* order the crew of Enterprise C to their death, if it is the only option, but of course, he wants to make sure it works.
An hour-long rumination on TNG the day I go back to class? Yes please!
Best episode! (after Inner Light)
This is my favorite TNG episode. It contains the single best line of dialogue in the entire franchise: "Let us be sure history never forgets the name...Enterprise." I love the more military feel of the Enterprise you mentioned, with the ambient nose, Ten Forward packed with people, the different relationship between Picard and Riker, etc. And I LOVE Capt. Garrett. I'm sure there's a novel (or novel series) out there somewhere about her, but in this one episode they establish her as not just an outstanding Starfleet officer, but worthy of her place in the lineage of Enterprise captains.
The one thing that irritates me is this--when Tasha announces the identity of the other ship at the end of the teaser, she drags it out too much. I don't know if it was just the way Crosby delivered the line or if that's how David Carson told her to, but it's like they build up unnecessary drama. We know the NCC-1701-C registry is the previous Enterprise. Just say it.
One more thing...1701-C travelled 22 years into the future. In the "present" for them, 22 years ago, Picard was the captain of the Stargazer. There's a possibility Garrett should at least know who he is.
The only issue I had with this episode is that it wasn't a 2 part episode.
I wonder what the mirror universe of this timeline looked like?
A warriors drink!
Try figuring out how the Terminator time travel works. It gets really confusing. I look at it as T1-T4 being part of a loop. Everything that happens happens because it happened before. Predestination Paradox. Genesys and Dark Fate don't count, since they were alternate universes.
I totally buy Q as being involved because Guinan says, "No!" when she sees the rift. She also has a connection with Q and knows when he is around.
The book "Q Squared" posits that this kind of this is more Trelane's kind of thing (the Squire of Gothos from ToS). Q is perfectly happy breaking things in the present, but breaking the past is more Trelane's thing and the sheer number of space-time anomalies that the various Enterprises run into is down to him. As Q says at one point, "a standard Starfleet ship might encounter one anomaly in its entire run. What are they up to at this point? 29?"
In the original timeline, 1701-C disappears, and it's 20 years before 1701-D is commissioned, thus for 20 years, there is no Enterprise
I have to wonder how Military Timeline Yar was picked up off of that hell hole of a planet she came from.
From Star Trek's own lore of Klingon ships using the same design nearly to death for different ship classes I had always thought that the K'Vort class Bird of Prey was a heavy destroyer/light cruiser type vessel. Having 3 of those in a wolf pack type patrol makes sense from a tactical point of view when facing not only a Galaxy class heavy crusier but the Flagship of the Fleet would have been almost dreadnought strength. But I agree that the Klingons would have assumed that the Dark Federation would have been testing a weapon of some kind if the war was going that badly for this Dark Starfleet. By contrast, I would count the Enterprise-C as a definite heavy crusier class.
I love that Garrett was fleshed out in the books but I feel like the should do more to expand on what was initially a throwaway character. The same case could be made for the Enterprise-B and Captains Harriman and Demora Sulu. Outside of books and mentions in other media, we know almost nothing about the period of time between the Enterprise-A being decommissioned and the Enterprise-D being ordered to assess Farpoint Station. Like television series or more stuff in games to expand it.
The final battle in this episode is one of the greatest in sci-fic history - why??? Because of the fucking drama ... who gives a shit about minor technicalities or the camera! It's the drama of it all
Not sure Enterprise-C actually escaped - when they appeared in front of Enterprise-D, everyone was unconscious and the ship was drifting. So it seems more likely that it had been heavily damaged in the firefight and drifted into the portal.
I agree on the timelines - my interpretation was always that C moving through to the portal created the military timeline, and sending it back restored the original one and meant the military one ended. In a way, it’s similar to the B5 episodes where B5 received emergency transmissions by Ivanova as the Shadows destroyed in an “alternate” version of B5 where B4 was not sent back into the past.
But yes, often Star Trek has used the multiple universes sort of time travel - most famously (and repeatedly) with the mirror universe.
Also, I don’t see the conflict between ST:VI and yesterday’s enterprise. There is a big difference between a peace treaty and an alliance, and while the former could take a few decades the latter could reasonably take several decades.
I'm imagining you as Doc Brown with the chalkboard in BTTF2...
I know that it is the starfleet way, of dying because it is somehow moral or right thing (esspecially when there is an easier path that doesn't directly lead to death) but after watching Rocks and Shoals in DS9 any speech to motivate people to go into a battle that they will 100% lose I always hear "our death brings glory to the founders". I mean the 125 crew of the enterprise C were going to die 22 years ago or later in this alternative timeline, and picard's argument to the captain is that the war is not going well so you must try to stop it before it happens. Well how would it matter to her, if she succeededs or fails her crew and her are dead either way. To me there is no greater logic to "you must fix the timeline because of intuition" than there is "our deaths bring glory to the founders". At least the jem'hadar in that battle take out 1 of their enemies in a unwinnable engagement, the captain shows chaos and anarchy of life by dying before she is supposed to die. I don't know, maybe I am not a starfleet guy/evolved human who truly is willing to die for something I will never see the fruits of.
I don't know if others felt this, but the way Stewart delivered the line "Let us make sure that history never forgets the name 'Enterprise'." felt like he wanted Picard to lack confidence. Like it was a line he felt he should say, but did not feel. I don't know if its because he is so stressed by this point that he cannot muster the force behind it but it always felt slightly off. I kind of like it, because it seems more human and less "Hollywood"
My favorite cheesequote this episode was from Castillo "Shields are at 72% Yeah, that's better"
Imo the event at Narendra could only have happened some time after the events of ST6, and it's down to how honor codes work.
Only after the Empire and federation had developed SOME sort of relationship and mutual respect could Narendra have resulted in meaningful honor from the Klingons.
Many fans mistake an honor code like the Klingons to be some sort of universal dictum, while reality shows that these systems are nearly always social constructs that are inwardly focused. Why do Klingons skulk around in cloaked ships ambushing people as raiders? Because YOU are not a part of their collective and thus you can neither recieve or bestow honor. You dont count so you don't get the benefit of the honor system.
This has played out in outlr world many times, samurai had a code, that dictated how they acted towards oneanother and their masters and how they did their jobs, but it didn't stop them from abusing the powerless peasantry. A Norse man sexually attacks a Norse woman? Theres repercussions there, but nobody cared what he did to his English slave.
Is anyone else thinking about the Uniforms aboard the Enterprise C in relation to the one's in the Trek films between 2 and Generatons? 😕 I can't work out why they are not the same.
He knows his Hondas haha
As an aside, I usually treat the K'Vort Birds of Prey in this timeline as being larger than the K'Vort in the main timeline.
I agree that they use the love at first sight thing in shows way to often, but, to quote Farscape, sometimes you just click with someone. That is what I get from Costillo and Yar, they just click.
Doesn't this episode pretty much directly contradict what was mentioned in "The Neutral Zone"? There was plenty of discussion that there was zero contact between the Federation and the Romulans for over 50 years. A battle between the Enterprise-C and four Romulan warbirds would not fit with that.
And why didn't the Federation respond to the Enterprise-C's destruction? They'd be political prisoners on Romulus. Did the Federation just not care that 100 or so Starfleet officers were being held in captivity?
A whole hour. :-D I already can't wait what happens once we reach The Best of Both Worlds. :-)
Deana Troi is not in this episode at all despite being listed as being in every episode on IMBD. Worf wouldn't be in this episode either except for t prune juice scene.
I always like to hear your views on sci-fi Lore. But, I was convinced for a second that this was gonna be the hour long video that was you going mad, when you raised your hand to your ear and all. "Whelp, that's it, Trek finally broke him." I thought. Glad I was wrong, and keep on being awesome.
Best tng episode for me
Yes totally agree seela and Tasha were already there
This is a test of the emergency broadcast system. If this had been an actual emergency . . . Crosby the biggest complain . . .
Did you notice that when the Enterprise C went back there was no distortion to the normal timeline?
it would have to with how the story went. C went back to the moment it left, romulans would have seen a bright light, then blew them up, timeline restored without incident.
Super high qual 🙂
It's simple. We know there were two Khitomer accords. The first was Star Trek 6 which made peace and the second was Enterprise C's time which formed the alliance.
Hey Lorerunner, great video, as always! Thanks
I wonder why the Q allowed the alternate timeline humans to live.
Also, have you ever considered doing a category that’s the opposite of a Lamentation, reserves only for the best of the best? Lorerunner Commendations, or something like that?
Appreciations
Here's a thought - without Guinan being able to distinguish the different timelines, this episode would have been the worst kind of slammed reset button; something happens and no one is aware, so what's the point?
Well, there is the fourth kind of time travel - Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey.
_"Most people think time is like a river that flows swift and sure in one direction. But I have seen the face of time and I can tell you they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm"_
What would it take for a Prince of Persia: Sands of Time trilogy rumination? I liked the section about different methods of time travel producing different time travel effects because there are several different artifacts in the trilogy that seem to affect time in interestingly subtle different ways.
I recommend watching Watchmen's episode "A God Walks into Abar" for a perfect example of Type 1 Time Travel.
does startrek discovery exists in thet war time tng bubble created by enterprise c?
To quote Miles Edward O'Brien. I hate temporal mechanics.
Would the Federation be better equipped to deal with the Borg in this alternate universe where they have been at war for years?
Chances are Q wouldn't have cased the Enterprise crew to meet the Borg prematurely, so they'd have a bit more time and hence development before they met.
Taking what Picard said however there probably wouldn't be a Federation left to encounter the Borg
Season 3 is when thing really got special on TNG
Ooph. A very good episode considering the mess behind the scenes. Agreed some room for improvement exists. I think w/o beta cannon from say after nemesis to 2017 novels not much going to make sense. The Q trilogy, Destiny trilogy, old giant novel Q squared with Trelane and three realities, regular timeline the C or war time Iine from here andca B timeline where Jack Crusher lived ( the only JC in any universe who survived) and it's still 1st season TNG plot threads left hanging. Read the DTI books and the fact that in 51% of timelines the Borg take over the Galaxy, this would probably be one such. No ADMIRAL JANEWAY to muck about with time to save the Galaxy from the Borg. They would reach Gorsuch 9 on the last day of the universe as seen in Q&A. The universe would never been restored! We need Janeway to insure Picard and the Enterprise reach that planet 1st. Far worse fates exist than the Klingons. Btw its established in Q&A many universes exist including the war timeline. Worf still exists alright. In fact he is Chancellor Worf in that time line and is in command of the ship that used to be the Enterprise D! Now his command flagship! Picard lives as Worf's personal slave! Very very dark fate. Thanks for the rumination.