Why 'BoJack Horseman' Works and '13 Reasons Why' Doesn't
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- čas přidán 29. 12. 2020
- I pinky promise I'm gonna start uploading more. I've already started editing a quickie, it'll either be up tomorrow or the day after. I love you all.
~links~
/ _cynicide_
/ cynicide - Krátké a kreslené filmy
One humanizes depression. The other stylizes it.
People that watched bojack horseman where tought consequences people that watched 13rw got an aesthetic
It’s very ironic that the one that humanizes depression the most is the one with talking animal people
@@SolSister10596 And the one that stylizes it is full of people that mostly go through this crap. I know I did. It wasn't anything like they showed in 13 Reasons why
@@lordgutterrat9634 13 was a decent show to begin with
perfect way to put it.
Imagine telling someone years ago that a cartoon about a talking horse would be one of the greatest and most thought provoking shows ever made.
And that it'd deal with serious subjects like mental illness and suicide better than a supposed "serious drama" about apparently "realistic" people but which portrayed psychological hallucinations as supernatural ghosts, had a main character who recorded tapes about why she killed herself then did it not because she felt like she couldn't go on anymore but to get back at people she blamed for it and hoped to use the tapes to make them feel guilty and kill themselves too, thought one rapist's sexuality justified him being a rapist and that another's parents not loving him made him one. Clay had hallucinations, blacked out, lost time and had a split personality in Season 4 but the show brushed it off as just anxiety.
Rick and Morty
It took me a long time to get around to watching it because normally adult cartoons don’t appeal to me. Now BoJack is easily in my top 5 favorite shows
@@Xehanort10 just in general it’s extremely wrong to kill yourself in revenge lmao.
Basically midnight punpun
Not only that. But 13rw shows by taking ur life u somehow take revenge on those who hurt u while bojack shows how ppl regret committing suicide “the view from half way down” it’s scary
That talk that diane and Bojack had in the last episode was my breaking point
@bingus At the time i made the mistake of watching it the show while dealing with my exhausting personal things and made mistakes i still blame myself on and from what i can remember ( since ive watched the show a while ago) i felt like some of the things Diane said were being said at me and also because i was still touched by the view from halfway down story and was also aware it was the last episode i hope that makes sense (also im somewhat better now and dont get those weird periods of sadness as often)
Actually 13rw is right here many people who commit suicide do it for revenge i remember wanting to so that my parents would suffer cause whenever i told them i would do it they said i craved attention so no 13rw is right here
@@poutsamouni5483 what I’m saying is that 13rw makes ppl think that by taking their lives they’re taking revenge on those who hurt them and that somehow they’d be able to enjoy the satisfaction after their death, which is not true and not a good message in general
Absolutely true
I've said this for a long time - Bojack Horseman NEEDED to be animated. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to pull off all of those sensitive moments that make the show so special and unique
Exactly. And the creativity with the animal-related gags was hilarious, too.
I often think about whether Bojack Horseman would be as successful had it been live action. I personally don't think so; people don't want to see themselves reflected on screen through a real person. A horse, or a cat, or a dog separates the viewer from those intrapersonal connections. We see a real person repeat our mistakes, and are hated for it, we spiral. I think Bojack Horseman is just so beautifully and artistically created, I cannot say enough good things about it.
@@Brooke-dw7qh for sure, but I definitely think it lost some potential viewers by making it animated as well since it’s animated and often confused for some children show or a shitty adult show. Either way I’m glad it’s animated it’s takes more creative liberty and shows what animation has a power of creating.
Also, otherwise they would've had a hard time finding an actual talking horse.
@@DrZaius3141 *you got the whole squad laughing* ......... 😑
I hope the person who shit themselves during your prom is watching like "damn, I hoped everyone had forgotten that"
Lol
LOL
We had a police dog take a giant shit on the floor of the main hallway during a drug search that stunk up the entire lower level of the school.
@@fangirl3086 lmaooo
@@fangirl3086 and here ladies and gentlemen, is a chad asserting his dominance
I hate to be that guy, but actually Herb miraculously survives his cancer, only to tragically die of a peanut allergy in a car accident on the way home from the doctor.
True. And yet this ridiculous premise is still treated with more reverence than the entire show 13 Reasons Why.
true, that was a pretty funny way to open the episode. The feeling is still the same. Bojack never got closure because his best friend died mad at him for abandoning him when the chips were down.
Still funny. #tweetinganddriving #isthatapeanuttruckinfrontofme?
And yet, it's still one of the greatest thing that ever happened on television. It knows how to handle certain things whimsically and the more serious matters subtly and solemnly.
The death is hilariously tragic, and that’s something so real about it tbh, death can come out of nowhere like that.
I always saw that as that thing that people who are very sick(like, to death, as herb was) get better a few time before dying
Bojack knew when to *nuance* the topic. 13 Reasons Why had to mix in the “teen drama” element, meaning everything had to be over dramatic and sensationalized. Mental health isn’t always obvious. It can be very subtle or even only occasional. 13 Reasons had to resort to the most shocking and scarring example of every topic. Everyone had to be screaming or crying. Some of Bojack’s most gut wrenching moments are without any talking at all.
So in other words, Bojack Horseman is a realistic portrayal of mental illness while 13 Reasons Why is an over-the-top cartoon with a shoehorned PSA.
@@mattc2306 Weird isn't it? The cartoon about a talking horse was more realistic than a supposedly "realistic" show that was more like an OTT cartoon.
@@Xehanort10 More of an ironic paradox.
Bojack's nuance extends to exploring a phenomenon Thomas Adès observed regarding his opera Powder Her Face: "Even horrible people are tragic." You can empathize with Bojack and care about him while being repulsed and horrified by his actions, some of which really are irredeemable. Thirteen Reasons Why had Bryce and Monty being purely evil for two seasons, then decided to give Bryce a posthumous redemption arc in the third season-at some points making sexual assault survivors rather unsympathetic (that whole funeral protest thing). I gather they did the same for Monty in the fourth (I watched the finale out of curiosity, but didn't bother with the rest). Bojack the character and Bojack the show always were treading that line; 13RW just did a 180.
P.S. The Bojack Season 4 episode "Stupid Piece of Sh*t" [that's the actual title; I'm otherwise a conscientious objector to asterisking out words] is one of the greatest portrayals of depression I have seen. "Good Damage" from Season 6 is a great depiction of both depression and the writing process.
@@Xehanort10 The episode that got me messed up is when you see a child Bojack check to make sure both his parents have passed out before taking a swig of vodka then cuddling into his mother’s arms. You don’t hear a thing except the radio’s distortion slowly correcting itself, signaling Bojack’s alcoholic origin of associating drunkenness with comfort.
Meanwhile 13 Reasons Why has the usual teen drinking and shouting/vomiting/bleeding from the mouth/manically laughing/sobbing uncontrollably and we are just supposed to accept every teen has some deep inner trauma or twisted reason for consuming alcohol. Because “happy teens” don’t “have” to drink.
The scene where Hannah kills herself triggered me so much and I immediately started self harming again. Bojack Horseman never made me feel that way. The show made me so much more aware of my feelings and my coping mechanisms. I really learned a lot about myself watching it and I’m pretty sure bojack horseman saved my life in some kind of way
Didn't basically every single suicide prevention group condemn how 13 reasons why treated the subject matter?
@@shizachan8421 yeah and I'm pretty sure there were a rise in attempts and deaths which therapists and other professionals told them that was going to happen. The writers literally didn't care that their writing would cause deaths
@@shizachan8421 they literally told them not to show hannah's bathtub scene and they did it anyways. They eventually cut it out but the damage was already done.
SENDING LOTS OF LOVE
i hope you're doing well, Andrea :'3
Bojack also treated all of its characters and their respective storylines with the same care, bojack’s story taught me a lot but every time a Diane episode came around I knew I’d be looking in a mirror for the next 25 minutes
Princess Caroline's story was one of my favourites
@@subzero2488 same
I honestly sometimes couldn't watch something because I got so angry at Diane for hating herself, especially when she tried to write her book in the end but I knew that was just because I literally saw myself. And that hit really hard.
Omg for real tho right?
@@moongirl8807 And the complicated feelings about being on medication.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bojack Horseman has _saved_ lives.
It has lmao. It helped a couple of viewers reflect and felt inspired to go to therapy.
it actually has.
It has and I'm living proof of it
It certainly saved mine
Saved mine
one of my favorite lines from any piece of media ever is probably the scene where bojack is running, and this guy/baboon runs up to him and says, "it gets easier. everyday, it gets a little easier. but you gotta do it everyday... that's the hard part." personal growth doesn't happen overnight, and sometimes you get worse before you get better. but consistency is key. not sure where i'd be right now if it wasn't for that scene.
That show makes you laugh, and punches you in the gut.
yeah I have that quote on my wall! It reminds me to be here everyday and just try. Love this show,
You can't forget about "The View from Halfway Down", an episode that many many MANY viewers of Bojack have cited for being anti-suicidal to them. Bojack has definitely scared people OUT of suicide.
Herb actually died from a peanut allergy from a car accident with a truck full of peanuts.
pedant
Its a bit of a joke but the plot fails to change no mater if its from penuts or cancer and i just like to believe cancer got him
lmao true
@@mrstealyokid9060 They explicitly say that he survived Cancer, and the peanuts killed him tho.
@@mrstealyokid9060 he was cured of cancer tho
The craziest thing that happened during my sophomore year was a global pandemic
Same! Who'd have guessed?
same
same
Same.
i was about to type this comment
The whole point of 13 reasons why was to talk about suicide, and after that story was told, there was no reason (other than money) that netflix renewed it for more seasons
yet bojack horseman should've been the one renewed
Wanna know why Bojack is so much better at that suicide story though? Bojack has had several attempts but never succeeded, Bojack doesn't portray suicide like a documentary, they show his attempts failing because they're trying not to make their audience suicidal. They show them there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and even though it's not sure what's at the end, there's still something past all the darkness and grief.
It's really up to you what you want that happy ending to be
...there's a reason why there aren't supposed to be stories of people impacting people bc of their words they wrote when suicidal, and then they complete suicide, and after someone else gets to hear that perspective
1. People who are suicidal are not thinking clearly, that's kind of the basis for being suicidal
2. No one who knew the person who died will think, "I'll take these words with a grain of salt, since this person thought death was the only way out" they will take every bit of it as gospel. I'm not saying that people lie, but I am saying if you bullied someone once and then they kill themselves and blame you? that's not great
3. when a story portrays this, every single person going through a hard time can look at those reasons for suicide and go oh, if they can do it then I can too. Also, people who have gone through the same thing? That's shitty from every direction
4. When a celebrity overdoses or completes suicide, suicide rates go up.
5. this glorifies suicide, because if you are going to take yourself away from the people you love, who love you, you do not get to use your words afterwards to give them guilt complexes. no.
6. Suicide rates went up because of this show. I don't- this show should have never been made
there are so many ways to talk about this subject, I mean Dead Poets Society was traumatizing but I looked at that teenagers dead body and I thought "oh jesus, oh god, I'm so so sorry"
trapped in a life he knew he would die from anyway, he spread up the process. and you know what? it was not admirable. It was horrific. Taking your own life is horrific.
@@drawnwithlove3499 The 2nd last episode with the poem from the Secretariat was how a show should talk about suicide without glamorizing it.
Don’t try to excuse this show with this shallow talk. It does a sh*t job at talking about suicide by having the main character give all these reasons for why she did it, and the dialogue ends up feeling like something out of a soap opera.
As someone who survived an attempt at suicide I appreciated Bojack Horseman as a show. The poem "The view from halfway down" summed up how I felt in the minutes I thought to be my last and how I wanted to go back but already began to pass out from the sleeping pills. I am glad I got a second chance and this poem will always remind me of that. While 13 reasons why would make the total opposite. This show plays into this horrible illusion of suicide redeeming you from what you've done and push all the blame to the people who hurt you, yet you never have to face consequences because you're gone.
Im so sorry to hear that I hope you're doing better now
I am sorry to hear that
Do it right next time. if you wanted to kill yourself you would be dead you did that shit for attention.
Though I loved that episode and I was inmerse in the hard hitting moments, I could felt the dread in Secretaria's 3 2 1 speech, to me ot came a cross as another if you do it you'll definetly regret it, it didn't stop me when I tryed to kms a few months ago, at that moment my mind was blank, I couldn't think of anything but to end it, like my mind was somehow heavy and I could resume to do only one thing, luckyly I did it wrong and I woke up two days later.
13rw romanticizes too many things that shouldn't be
And demonizes too many things that they shouldn't be.
What did they romanticize?
@@mufasa5288 depression, suicide, literally breaking multiple laws
@@RambleAnimations no it doesn’t🤨 when Hannah killed herself it never came across as a example of suicide being a positive literally Hannah killing herself just made everything worse for everyone and is repeatedly mentioned that she shouldn’t have done it by several characters on the show…
@@RambleAnimations also I’d like you to go into detail on how it romanticizes all of those because this video didn’t do a good job at it and neither are these comments
Another big difference between these two shows is Bojack Horseman had respect for their topics and addressed them in realistic ways. 13 Reasons Why felt like a drawn out PSA that didn’t even understand its subject matter. Great video and analysis here
13 Reasons why was D.A.R.E. but for mental health
Bro 13 reasons why first wanted to cover mental health (even it never even talked about diagnoses or mental illness), then it went into some weird #metoo movement, then for some reason aids? It wanted to spread awareness, all it did was tell a horrible story
13 Reasons Why was like a Lifetime film in TV series form. In the sense it portrays real life issues in this self righteous, black and white extreme scaremongering way.
PSA means?
@@sainthunter3350 Public service announcement. It's what they call anti smoking, drinking, drugs and so on adverts.
Bojack Horseman also delves into the concept of 'generational trauma' by showing Crackerjack Sugarman's death resulting in Honey's lobotomy which traumatized Beatrice and Joseph abusive behaviour being more noticeable which then made Beatrice abuse Bojack which made Bojack abusive to Sarah Lynn.
It shows the cycle of abuse however it doesn't excuse it. It shows that people make bad decisions and there's a reason why but doesn't excuse it. Nobody forgives Bojack because he was abused he was forgiven because he changed.
It also shows that people don't deserve forgiveness like how Bojack doesn't forgive his parents for their abusive behaviour just because "they were family" or "they were abused too" it doesn't matter. Bojack doesn't forgive them nor do people forgive Bojack.
And THAT'S why it's a good show. You mentioned it's a balance between ridiculous and real but there's a another balance it does perfectly. Excuse-Explain. So many shows excuse abuse because of stated things but this show doesn't, it doesn't sugarcoat anything or pretend everything is okay if you're _really_ sorry
But viewers were okay with other shows excusing abuse.
Bojack has helped me understand the severity of the intergenerational trauma in my own family, which I already knew about but didn’t comprehend. Watching Honey Horseman’s actions layered over Bojack’s was a revelatory moment for me.
me too! it's the only type of closure i'll ever get from the trauma i went through. i just hope every day that it wasn't me that caused my parents to traumatize me, and it was their own fucked up minds that just kinda defaulted to abuse. my parents will never say sorry, so i suppose me not blaming them entirely for the abuse offers some closure- not much though.
(Most of) my family isn’t _abusive,_ but this show was part of my inspiration to break some unhealthy learned behaviours. Teenage me was very comforted by the knowledge that I could break the cycle.
honeys story was so sad
I think the most important thing Bojack Horseman taught me was that intents matter, but it doesnt matter how "good" your intentions are if your actions actively hurt others. It allows u to empathize and sympathize with Bojack, but it still condemns his behaviour. You gotta actively build up and practice good habits even if its hard and theres no superspeed montage that makes that effort whizz by.
Exactly. Intention does not equal result. Being a better person takes ACTIVE hard work. You realize that Bojack has done bad things and you know WHY he did it, but it doesn’t excuse him.
It really amazes me to see how the show does this and it’s why I’ve watched it over and over a few times and recommend it to any other adults looking for something deep and true, lol.
Hey I love your comment man. Hey my name is Jonah I am sadly I feel a bit of like a Bojack horseman myself at times I’ve done some of the despicable things that Bojack has done in his life however for me for some reason there hasn’t been as many consequences luckily like I probably could’ve gone to prison for some of the things I’ve done but for some reason I’ve been lucky guardian angels come over my shoulder and I have hurt some people but I’m a good person and what you’re saying is true I do have good intentions however sometimes my impulsive nature in my actions don’t always match up with my words even though I’ve I’m good at smooth talking and I have nice words and a complement people do stupid things sometimes and the first step is being aware of it.
I know this is really long winded and all that but I’m just tired feeling pretty alone sometimes I’ve had some problems that I’ve only been off the toll one or two people because it’s so personal because I kind of feel like a Bojack sometimes but I am I mean I’m not he’s a cartoon fictional character but he displays a lot of things that I kind of see in myself and I’ve behaved like him before unfortunately I have a lot of money I’m just kind of poor like 20-year-old young adult it’s kind of just trying to find his way and do good like I haven’t killed anyone or something like that but I’ve deafly I won’t say what I did but definitely one or two of the things that happened in the show that he did I did that is all and so sometimes it bugs me in there’s like skeletons in my closet wake me down sometimes and I don’t know what to do I guess the best thing I can do is just focus on good habits and learn from my mistakes and not turn to drugs or alcohol which I don’t do I exercise a lot which helps and just be the best man I can be and move from here as likely I’m gonna be all right just got to keep my head up and I get depressed and just I can be happy and focus on myself and bettering myself and I meditate a lot which helps.Oh yeah I don’t know if you receive this but if you do I’m I’m curious what your response would be I’m just trying to get my life together and just be the best Man I can be I did voice to text so that’s why I responds a bit weird but anyways thank you for posting that I really appreciate it it’s a great post I just pray that I can get through this especially with Covid I don’t get to see my friends as much and I had a really bad break up not too long ago which is been hard and I know that it’s like to feel like you’ll never be loved because I am very loved but sometimes my mind tricks me make me feel like I’m not I don’t deserve anything which is bullshit because I do Man it’s hard sometimes it really is but I wake up every day I go to my work at go to my job at the YMCA and he’ll work with kids and cheer them up have a good day yeah I mean even today I am a cut some guy off and I was driving to work and he followed me for 10 minutes just so you could come in his car pound on my window and tell me how pissed off he wasn’t home that much of a bad drive around and I’m just like what is the shit happened to me man they deserve I mean I’m not the centre of the universe I’m just one person sometimes it feels like you know the words gang up on me but I think right now I just Gotta be careful just chill out and not do anything stupid I am just lay low but his plate safe because I’m scared of what I might do in the future and I wanna live a good life be happy. Anyways I don’t know if you read this but thank you for posting that I really appreciate it I’m just name is Jonah young adults I live in Canada and try and work my way through my life and it’s hard sometimes I really I’m really scared sometimes I’m just one guy I don’t know if I’ll ever really have a successful relationship either because my parents were divorced since I was little son really know what a successful relationship looks like so not respect that kind of relate with Bojack parents dysfunctional family and stuff like that fighting and hitting violence but I think I’ve become a lot stronger which is good a lot more mentally tough which is great However I’m at a crossroads right now and I got a really decide who the man I want to be and I believe that I will persevere because I’m strong and healthy and I think right now but I’m struggling with is just putting things in the past and getting out of my head .
@@jonahglover-cook4558 I’m very glad you’re being more aware of your actions. I used to be an alcoholic and I was definitely a terrible person. I would hurt others, and take out my anger on them as well as myself. My intentions were always to be a good person but clearly I would never do that. I scared myself, knowing I would lose my girlfriend, my family, and my friends.
It’s all about being aware and trying to be a bit stronger about it. Sometimes you’ll have relapses, sometimes you’ll get all in your head thinking about the horrible things you did. But you can’t change it and the best thing you can do is be the best person you can be right now. I’m only 20 now on the west coast in America, I’m doing my best to be independent and make better choices.
I hope you have a good life and better experiences. :)
Yep. I feel like the defining moment of the show is when Todd tells BoJack that he can't continue doing shitty things to people and then feeling bad about them expecting that that would somehow make it all okay. The show delves into A LOT of stuff but I feel like its main thesis is the fact that it is never too late to become the person you want to be, but in order to do that you need to face the consequences of your own actions, take accountability for your mistakes AND put in the effort to actually change.
Bojack Horseman is about an animated horse that has struggled with addiction and depression in his life and it's presented one of the most realistic ways possible and doesn't feel cartoonish at all even though it's a cartoon, and 13 Reasons Why is about live characters that are so one-dimensional and annoying that they can't even explore mental health issues properly, and it feels unrealistic, despite having live actors and not being an animated program, just let that sink in.
On I Hate Everything's 13 Reasons Why videos he points out that instead of being characters with mental issues those mental issues are the characters entire personalities. And it's weird how a cartoon about a talking horse covered suicide better than a supposedly realistic show about the kind of people you could meet in real life.
@@Xehanort10 I hate how a lot of representing media abt mental illness and disorders does this. As an neurodivergent, we often don't like regarding our mental disorders to be our entire character, people don't realize how terrible they can be, it's not this gift that makes you naturally talented or anything, it's a real condition that obstructs us from being 'normal' according to society's standards.
I hate most autism films because not only do they fail in a lot of things, they don't explore the autistic character at all. They treat them like this unexplainable alien creature with weird behaviors, like some kind of animal.
Remember people: even autistic people and neurodivergent people in general ACTUALLY HAVE PERSONALITIES.
I don't struggle with substance abuse, nor addiction, but I find myself relating so deeply to Bojack for his inability to communicate, and his internal struggle with the fact that he feels loved, but rarely wanted or liked. And the whole idea of alienating yourself so other people don't do it first cuts so deep in Bojack Horseman, but that's not what 13RW wants to discuss, they romanticise depression to the point where (especially in female characters) people cannot be seen as liked or worthy of love if they aren't mentally ill. 13RW has so significantly contributed to that ideology first presented by Diane in season 6; that if your trauma has to be good for something. When I was 14, I had a severely depressed friend, and I would be so annoyed that I wasn't depressed too. I couldn't tell you why, but I felt like I needed to understand struggle before people could like me. It just horrifies me that they created a whole fantastical manic depressed female character that was so perfectly perceived by the narrator (Clay).
And that's how I imagine teens today whenever i watch 13RW (i kid. I only watched the series one time in full and yes i did stick it out through the final season. I still believe teens today act sound, and look like the characters do in the show). Much love and respect.
Also Bojack horseman tells an tale about an man life,make it not an hyper excentric history,but an plausible and well detailed fall from gracejos.
A moment of silence for the dude who shit his pants at prom
Poor dude
At least it was senior year and was near graduation. If that shit happened in freshman year he would have to live with that for the next couple of years.
that poor guy...
He probably got bullied for the rest of the year atleast he ain’t a freshman
a freshman brought edibles to school and openly told everyone about it and basically the entire day was a circus of the teachers trying to find him and this guy high out of his mind running around while everyone was dying laughing. that's the biggest thing that happened at my high school
That sounds hilarious.
I laughed out loud reading this. that sounds amazing
Kids be stupid
A higher percentage of students died in my graduating year than in the average combat tour of Afghanistan, cant relate lol. MCHS 2018
It really says a lot that as a young adult who dealt with suicidal thoughts and self harming behaviors as a teen girl who honestly went through some similar shit that Hannah baker did in 13rw, I relate so much more to bojack than her.
Same, tbh
bruh.. it's crazy like I relate to a toxic adult millionare alcoholic talking horse more than the "depressed" teenage girl. they rly messed up
@@melodys9188 Imagine setting out to write a Very *Serious* Show about Very *Serious* Issues with the stated aim of Starting a Conversation and then being completely outshone by a cartoon with constant animal puns and Amy Sedaris delivering goofy tongue-twisters. (The moral: there's a difference between serious and *SERIOUS* treatment of a subject....)
Hannah was also a really horrible person in the show too
I related to Hannah I liked 13 rw s1. I should watch the horse show also it seems nice.
Wow, this really contextualized my feelings on the two shows, bravo.
1.4k likes and no replies wtf
@@fredsteeples8491 I'm the 2nd
Was this sarcastic?
@@jacoblove7576 not at all
Your impressed easily and that’s ok if you want am something more deep watch the right opinion he’s a CZcamsr and he backs his points up
I was going to comment with a rant about consequences, but by the end, you’d covered all my observations. As a writer and an abuse survivor, I am critical of media that gets abuse and narcissism wrong. I was so worried Bojack would end in a redemption arc, but it doesn’t. The writers unflinchingly did not let him off the hook, not once. That was so powerful for me after decades of watching shows where the message is, “Well it wasn’t so bad, so let’s all forgive him!” I never watch a show more than once, but I’m on my 3rd watch-through of Bojack Horseman. Endless respect because these writers are finally teaching the lessons our society needs to hear.
Another thing to note is that when Bojack does get himself together in the final season, getting a new job and moving past all of his past issues they resurface, and in the final episode he loses almost everyone he's fond of. It's sad but realistic. He may have gotten past everything but the people he has affected may not.
@@Vestaaa480 Yes! There's no final lesson to viewers that victims need to support the lead character no matter what he's done to them.
I think we actually sympathize more with cartoon animals. Because it comes from a sense of innocence. We first learn to project emotions onto cartoons and stuffed animals as a child, and those things retain that childlike state in our minds as we get older - cartoon animals are for kids. And seeing them go through real hardships of real-life devastates us more because it comes from an innocent mindset. It's why Pixar and Disney can still make us cry harder than live-action movies.
Ironically it’s sometimes easier to put yourself in the shoes of those characters than a specific human archetype. It’s the same effect as the original Lorax hiding the Onceler’s face. You can imagine yourself making the same mistakes as the characters and it’s _scary._
"Morally bankrupt piece of shit" the best description of 13 reasons why I've seen so far.
Craziest things that happened in my senior year: a burning body was found behind my school and a teacher got arrested for sleeping with 3 sophomores. I literally saw the police car pull and the news.
That's fucking wild
jesus christ
@@mitaka_78 it was wild
@@Quackervoltz very much
@@sangotaisho damn. the only worst thing i got in my school was one of the teachers was arrested for possesion and recording CP, and a closely related one was a post-graduate kid commited suicide in his parents marriage clothes
I attempted suicide after watching the first season of 13 reasons why. There's was a lot of other stuff going on in my life at the time (lost job, lost roommate, dad had cancer) but it really romanticized suicide to the point where I was like "yeah that's the right decision!" After I failed I was checked into a hospital for a few day and then had to move back home, but I'm still glad I'm not dead.
I'm very sorry you went through all of that but luckily you're still here with us and I really hope you're doing better now!
You should watch bojack horseman
it completely undermines the reality that once you are dead you do not get to see how people react. that's it. you don't get to see people feel bad as they should for making your life shitty, you don't get to see how your death is now forcing people to pay the price of what they did to you, you don't get to see people finally caring about you. you're dead. that's the end. they kept hannah alive, in a sense, for two seasons, even though she was very much supposed to be dead. like i've never seen any show or film that romanticizes suicide as much as this atrocity.
Hey! I know its been four months, but how are you doing?🥺
Any update on your mental health?
I happy that you're still with us..
'13 reasons why' makes my blood boil. It broke practically all rules the rules of portraying suicide in visual media, which then caused tons of teens to imitate the scene where Hannah ends her life. Also, they originally didn't have any trigger warnings before the episodes, so people had to see some very vile scenes that probably made them relive their traumas. Then, these bastards had the courage to ignore all that stuff happening, and said that they consider their series as a good thing because 'it created dialogue around important topics', so they decided to somehow develop the universe even more, despite being based on a novel that only covered the story up until the end of season 1. I haven't watched any season past the first, but from word of mouth and yt videos I know that they somehow have done things worse by defending a rapist because his parents were divorced (or some other shit) and by saying that commiting crimes isn't bad as long as you are a good guy like Clay and his friends!
Fuck the creators, Netflix, and the people that defend that abomination of a show that did more harm than good
Ikr.. the only conversation it started was that nobody should ever make a show like 13rw again
nuuuu but apologies nuuuuuuuuuuu
I don’t understand why people believe that saying “we started a conversation” automatically makes their insensitivity (or lies) okay. Like, no you didn’t. You did not _invent_ the concept of talking about hard topics. All you’ve done is make the conversation even harder to have.
I don’t understand why people believe that saying “we started a conversation” automatically makes their insensitivity (or lies) okay. You did not _invent_ the concept of talking about hard topics. All you’ve done is make the conversation even harder to express than before.
@@sandystudios223 Apparently according to these people, it's not showing it at all.
these two shows aren't on the same level at all
fr, straight up just different planes of existence
One is a very good show and another feels like a fever dream that I never want to watch again
Not even close. One is a very realistic show that has tons of respect for their audience. One is a show that broke almost every single rule by NAMI and increased the youth suicide rates.
@@toastedgraymonds2744 one is the best animated show of all time
@@Larboga the other is literally the cause in a spike of youth/teen suicide rates
"Theres a real possibility that some of the people who watched this show would still be alive should it never have been made."
That hits different man.
That's too much, man.
You can't blame a show for the actions of others and not be laughed at. It's the same argument politicians use to say that violent video games are the problem with society. Correlation is not causation
@@harrybudgeiv349 im pretty sure this is different. A show showing suicide is a good way out is bound to cause some peoole to relapse. Its not about how it is a show about suicide its about how it betrays suicide. Its like if a triple A game was realised and had you play as a school shooter and made it seem "cool", because of the way it betrays school shooting vulnerable people would see it as an option
@@Dragonborn-kn5ey Are you saying violent video games make people violent?
Because that's not really what happens
@@harrybudgeiv349 no of course not. Just because a game has people shooting each other doesn't mean it makes people think shooting eachother is good. Its all about context. I was more using the video games thing as a metaphor
Bojack has seriously got me through my toughest , alcohol induced, worse year of my life ❤️. Bojack will always have a place in my heart
are you okay now?
Everything about Bojack screams "actions have a ripple effect of consequences," and these consequences affect everybody. The whole "Hollywoo" thing plays as a joke, but it's also a running example of this philosophy. He stole the "D," and for 6 whole seasons (until it got inadvertently changed to "Hollywoob"), the entire city was affected.
I'm so glad everyone started watching bojack in 2020. It's such a good show
dude that show is amazing,ive never felt suicidal but that speech from "the view from halfway down" is genius
I started watching it because in every video I see about 13 reasons why, someone mentions it and says how better it is. I never regretted my decision.
honestly I wish I watched it sooner
Someone shit there pants during your prom?!?? That’s should have been the plot of season 5 of 13 reasons why
Just wait till you hear about a show called American vandal
@@jay_._. that show is honestly brilliant too bad its so underrated
I watched both of these shows when I was severely depressed. I watched 13 reasons the first season in one go and it made me feel like death wasn’t permanent and I would be getting people back. It honestly made me feel like it was encouraging my depressed brain to jump on to the suicidal track. Where as BoJack Horseman helped me express my feelings by watching a show I could relate too.
Yeah but really if you suicided you wouldnt care cause you would be dead oeople say suicide is bad i mean sure maybe for people who care abour you hut ismt bad for you
it's kind of like the angel and devil on the shoulders in cartoons
Watch Mr robot it is a once in a lifetime experience when depressed
The thing I like most about Bojack Horseman is the sentiment from the last episode - Bojack is miraculously alive and instead of trying to “fix” all his problems like he always does, he simply talks with Dianne on the roof. To me, it illustrates how simple connection with another can make life worth living. Even if it feels like everything is going to shit, there will be a meaningful moment that makes it all worth it to keep going
In addition to Bojack affecting the people around him and them suffering the consequences of his actions, it is important to say, that Bojack himself is the result of his toxic and abusive parents and they are the result of their parents.
I know that this is not the point of the video. Maybe I overthink this show way to much, but it had such a positive impact on me and I'm very thankfull it exists.
Agreed! So grateful that the show shows how the cycle of abuse perpetuates and actually develops all the characters. It doesn't just make the abusive people outright "bad", it gives them a nuanced backstory and chances at redemption. It's very relatable in that manner.
@@KarunyaSabapathy yes! Even seemingly 'nice' traumatized people aren't all so great. They can still carry some abusive tendencies from their abusers, as it was the only way they knew how to handle a situation (i.e. yelling and being abusive when you're annoyed because it's what your abuser did when you annoyed them)
It's a very long journey to completely stop the cycle of abuse, as much as you don't want to become your abuser, the sooner you know it, you are.
People aren't perfect, and we can't always blame the people who affected us for all our horrible actions. The best we can do is learn from them and do better
So true, I mean even Beatrice's childhood is so painful to watch. Her father's toxic masculinity, and old school ideals, and ignoring Beatrice mixed with her mother's lose and her ultimately losing an actual mother (Not physically but mentally) was heart breaking. Her last words she heard from her mother was "please never love as much as I loved Crackerjack" How could a young elementary child ever grow. And not to invalidate the abuse she put her only son through but its a toxicity passed down from generation to generation.
@@KarunyaSabapathy Thank you. When you’re in that situation or you’re being emotionally abused by parents, it’s confusing bc for most people you experience the ups and downs of a relationship with them so you become confused and emotionally exhausted. Yes they have their reasons for being this way, but they’re not usually always belittling you, it just slips into a conversation and devolves. It’s just refreshing to see that seemingly good people can be bad or do bad to others.
The craziest thing that happened in my sophomore year was someone tried to bring a knife into the school.
A pocket knife.
I'm from south Georgia where everyone carries pocket knives.
He didn't even know he had it on him.
The skit that shows Bojack’s inner dialogue really helped me not feel alone. It was good to get my destructive inner thoughts into words so that I could explain to those around me why I was so depressed and anxious.
There's a scene from Bojack that sticks with me even years after I saw it. It's the scene where Bojack(again) apologizes to Todd for screwing up and then Todd makes a big speech about how he can't keep saying he's sorry and that he himself is all the things that are wrong with him. My parents were the exact same way. They eventually gave me PTSD and I didn't realize that until after I seeked out therapy. I can't even begin to tell you how much that moved me.
Ugh I feel you. That scene sat with me the longest. I come from an abusive family and had been struggling to heal/ cope from the trauma and understand it. Watching that scene, it was like a huge reality check for me.
the thing is that with 13 reasons why, if you have depression and suicidal thoughts/ tendency's, or selfharm then your more than likley gonna get triggered by it, which isnt good.
but with bojack you can relate and its comforting. it adds humour and relateble characters.
thats the reason why 13 reasons why doesnt work
it's the difference between someone just saying something like "tomorrow will be better" when the person has heard it a million times and someone sitting down with you so you won't be alone and acknowledging the very real pain you're feeling. I have frequent suicidal ideations and I wouldn't be surprised if the view from halfway down helps me off the edge later in life
I feel like the point about the characters in BoJack being animals may be true psychologically, but I don't feel like I treat them any less like people just because their characters are animals in the show. Like I actively forget that Mr. Peanutbutter is a dog or that Princess Carolyn is a cat. Heck, I forget that they're called those wacky names because the writing somehow makes them feel very very real to the point where the rest doesn't matter, at least to me
obviously.
BoJack Horseman is MY ALL TIME FAVORITE SHOW. This last year was rough, but BoJack Horseman got me through it.
i watched thirteen reasons why for the first time when i was twelve. i had already had suicidal ideation for a while before that, but the show borderline traumatized me from how romanticized the things that happened in it were. i had, at the time, felt like no one cared about me, and watching everyone suddenly care about the main character after she died made me want that too.
Oh, I thought it was called “Why bojack horseman works and 13 reasons why it doesn’t”
Same HDJDSJKSKS also nice pfp 😳
@Elias Gonzalez I just spammed my keyboard. You're that type of guy to act better than everyone because you use proper grammar in a casual text conversation.
@Elias Gonzalez so what if you don't like it? Im going to use it. I didn't even reply to you with the keyboard spam. It's really entitled of you to act like I can't type how I want because you don't like it when I wasn't even replying to you in the first place.
@Elias Gonzalez your opinion on how I type was quite literally unnecessary.
@@yesyes5185 Your replies are better written than the entirety of 13 reasons why
Bojack felt real
13 Reasons Why felt like it was a project of a teenager or an adult pretending to be a teenager
I think another thing about the jokes is so much that seems as a joke shows up later as something serious sometimes, like when bojack was responsible for alcohol poisoning it’s played for laughs, and is brought back later. Consequences are something that wait and hide to come up later, shocking you when you thought it was taken care of, ESPECIALLY because a lot of the consequences come from something we thought nothing about outside of it being a joke
Even in moments where I couldn’t relate to Bojack, I found myself in other characters. Penny seeing BJ again when he was on his bender and freaking out reminded me of when I saw the man who assaulted me in the hallways of my high school. Seeing it addressed and seeing her talk about it in later seasons really helped me wrap my mind around how I feel about my situation.
Stupid Piece of Shit was played up, but it was also a great depiction of constantly beating yourself up. I felt myself really relating to that episode and keeping it in mind when my brain starts to get like that.
And on top of all that, some of the episodes are just downright fantastic. Old Sugarman Place is one of the most interesting episodes of any show I’ve ever seen. Fish out of water was so visually interesting and told a great story even with minimal dialogue. Free churro was interesting despite not changing locations. The view from half way down is hands down my favorite episode of anything ever.
Just finished rewatching the series. And that episode is amazing. Especiallllly the poem "secretariat/bojack's dad" shared on the stage. I always go back to that poem to help me. And I'm truly sorry about your experience and im glad your able to talk about it. Im glad your alive.
my guess why 13RW doesn't seem believable, because the creators themselves dont have a firm grasp of reality outside YA novels, Reddit and Twitter.
Another thing with noting is that 13RW is a bastardised novel adaptation. The novel ends at season one.
In short, every single plot point from season 2 onwards, the producers of the show are pulling plot points out of their asses
I haven't watched 13RW because I refuse, but I did read the book. And you're right, the book did end at season one. But even the book was a bastardized patchwork piece of real life experiences the author had no idea about. He collected traumatic stories from his female relationships and tried to write a book from a traumatized teen girls perspective based on that. Somebody he knew had been sexually assaulted, someone he knew had attempted suicide, etc and he thought he could write about it as though he had personal experience with those stories. I read it in high school, and having been through the same things and wholly unable to relate to the main character's perspective, I was pissed. From the jump it wasn't his story to tell and netflix just made it worse imo.
@@gakailyn9249 exactly. The book romanticized suicide, and so does the show
No wonder why he considered Season 1 to be comprehensible
And in the novel no one knows if Hannah baker dies, it just said that the mom took her to the hospital and then they moved away (this may be rebutted. I haven’t read the book in years). And also, in the show they added another “reason” than what was in the book.
@@gakailyn9249 You can definitely write about those things without experience otherwise but if you do it’s always better to consult people that have been through it, especially when it comes to psychological trauma. Doesn’t seem like the author did at all if it comes of disingenuous
The day 13rw came out some assholes from my school “prank called” me and told me to off myself. And then I continued binge watching the 1st season with my friend and it killed me the entire time. I just watched Bojack Horseman this year after a friend had showed it to me and now it’s one of my comfort shows. I relate to Diane so heavily my therapist had me do homework and write down every quote or reason or characteristic that made me relate to her so much and it felt so good to see me played out as a cartoon and to feel a bit more understood.
This depressed talking horse is one of the most smartly, complexly written main characters in history.
The craziest thing that happened my senior year is that two boys went drunk 4 wheeling three months before graduation. One ran into a tree, it flipped over and crushed him. His friend watched him die. He wasn't the brightest kid, but he was nice and wanted to be a mechanic. Don't drink and drive.
I remember when 13rw came out, my school handed out papers throughout the school telling our parents to not watch the show with consequences. Thank Zeus
Do you go to school in communist China? What “consequences”?
@@archguru314 I think they might’ve meant more like mental health consequences, like a warning because bad things have a possibility of happening, not like an actual reprimand from the school just for watching it
@@abigailkite2476 makes sense 😂
I remember some Christian movie review article telling people not to watch it... because of the copycat suicides as well as language and sexual content. I was reading this like oops already saw a few episodes.
@@archguru314 Oh gosh, I forgot about this reply. They told us that if we were seen watching it, we would have to go through the "talk" with the principal. As well as consequences for mental-health wellbeing.
I watched bojack horseman when i wasn't in a very happy place. And somehow, i could relate to a lot of things shown but never triggered more sadness. It was a comfortable place and i absolutely love the show for it
I can't believe netflix gave 13 reasons why 4 seasons when they cancelled tuca and bertie after just one
Justice for Tuca and Bertie 😤
Honestly, Tuca and Bertie is such a good show. It's one of the very few adult animated shows that takes full advantage of its animation, it talks about topics such as sexual harassment, childhood sexual abuse, and anxiety in a much more meaningful way than 13 reasons why couldn't even PRETEND to. And it's a show that was created with a female audience in mind, which is rare in adult television. Best of all, the show is very much about empowerment and taking life into your own hands with the help of the people you love. I hope Adult Swim doesn't butcher it.
@@queen-monarch that sounds AMAZING and they cancelled this show after only one season? rude
Wait, it’s cancelled ? Isn’t there a s 2 pilot on you CZcams ?
@@jean-thecrazyone8267 It looks like adult swim picked it up!
My girllfriend put this show on and started watching this with me while I was getting fucked up on heroin and she never knew. I had no idea what the show was about because I was too fucked up to care. I started getting sober near the end of the show and it really started to spring out to me. I then got the "purpose"of the show and Illived exactly like bojack. This show was ulltimately something huge in getting me sober.
I'm hoping that you are doing well now. If not, use this as your sign ❤️.
Hope you’re doing better now. Keep up that streak!
really missed a chance there at the end by not saying "fuck man, what else is there to say?"
Bojack horsemen:
- taught people how to deal with their emotions
- helped people to bring their emotions into a discussion
- encouraged people to get help (therapy and rehab)
-saved a lot of lives and taught important life lessons
- put the main characters in a bad light for his actions and than showed the result of what he did.
- taught people that their actions will always have consequences
- taught people that alcohol and drugs will only make things worse
- created a safe space for people with depression
- represented depression in the most accurate way
- gave people the warm feeling they are not alone
- showed that even tho everything is fucked life will keep going
- (my favorite) showed how suicide is not the answer for your pain and than showed how people who choose to kill themselves instantly regret
13 reasons why:
- romanticise mental illness
- used incorrect stereotypes of mental illness to represent them
- made a girl kill herself (and probably more than just her)
- made people harm themselves
- put criminals in a good light
- empathised a serial rapist that ruined lives and scared so many girls
- justified false framing someone for murder
- taught all the teens that are watching this that no one cares about your emotions and even if you suicide no one will stop to help others that deal with it
- made teens think alcohol is the solution for their pain
- made teens think that going to get help won’t change anything and will let the people who hurt you live with no consequences
- got more exposure than Bojack Horseman
And the list goes on, seriously Netflix needs to recommend Bojack Horseman to everybody instead of this shit show
Well, for what it's worth, I caught the buzz about Bojack Horseman and eagerly jumped on each new season. I was vaguely aware of that other show's existence but didn't know anything about it until I watched this video. The word did get out in some cases!
Thank you for saying...
Didn't suicides sky rocket after 13 reasons why dropped when it first came out? I remember that distinctly.
@@rachelreii5952 yeah it happened I even remember that article about the girl that killed herself directly after watching the suicide scene
13 Reasons Why is too cliche it's always a girl with a pretty face and big tits thats always the victim.
No one:...
That guy that shat himself at prom: 👁👃🏾👁
Remember when 13 Reasons Why's showrunners were claiming that it will increase mental healht, sexual violence and abuse awareness and PREVENT suicides? Welll, here we are...
Bojack made me realize some things about myself. 13 reasons why gave me a fucking panic attack on the suicide scene and made me romanticize (again) selfharm lmao
Edit:I'm fine, I have my coping mechanism don't want anyone worrying
I’m glad you’re okay.
Bojack was so incredible, especially in the sense that whilst Bojack is obviously mental ill, it provides a reason, not an excuse.
@@Brooke-dw7qh honestly if you are a bad person due to abuse and were originally a good person that means its society's fault therefore you are 100%excused
@@vaggod123sckmydck3 You can't blame everything on society tho, determinism is proven to be false. Your environment shapes you and impacts you but it's still your responsibility as a person in society not to harm others.
Craziest things that happened during my last two years of high school:
.One kid had his car searched and the cops found weed.
.One middle school kid tried stabbing a classmate with a pair of scissors.
.One girl thought it was a good idea to record herself making sweet and tender love to a hot dog, and got suspended when the video started circulating the school.
.One kid had a heart attack in the middle of lunch because he was slamming too many energy drinks that morning.
these are lowkey hilarious
@@lore_nza Even so, not as hilarious as this: During that same period, administration would let students sign up to have their choice of song played over the cafeteria's PA during lunch. Pretty early on, some genius played Pumped Up Kicks. We had our music taken away for a week after someone told administration what exactly the lyrics of that song were.
@@louisdarden108 omfg hahahahahahahahha
Nothing could have prepared me for the phrase "made sweet and tender love to a hot dog"
As someone who is diagnosed with BPD (around 15% of people diagnosed with BPD dont make it past 25 due to suicide) I will never watch 13 Reasons Why. I know it will send me into my toxic bad habits again and thats horrifying to me! And I was even scared to watch Bojack for a long time (it's easy to trigger me so I try my best to be as careful as possible). But the show has changed my life, I try even hard at therapy. I work harder to help myself to avoid harming the others around me. And even though the biggest step to recovery is to admit you have an issue or issues. Thats still not enough to change, you HAVE to work at bettering yourself. Nothing just changes cause you know and recognize you can be toxic. And not even just Bojack but all the characters are so one of a kind and all have issues. Thats the reality of our society, I mean these are writers, actors, producers, star athletes represented in the show and their issues go so deep. All of them needed to work past their own issues andnits represented how your friends can move up and move on with their lives if you chose to stay stuck.
Also the portrayal of mental disorders are very accurate and you can tell we’re written by people who have gone through it. In the “your a piece of shit” and the “view from halfway down” it was a super accurate display of anxiety and depression which it hit super different and honestly really stuck with me. It made me think over stuff
"I'm surprised they even included gravity" LMAO HOLY shit legendary roast
My mom never let me watch 13 reasons why because I was very suicidal at the time, kinda still am but I take meds, and now I’m glad that my mom didn’t let me watch it and glad I found Bojack Horseman instead. Bojack Horseman has actually help me realize something’s about myself
I went through a period in my life recently in which I was being incredibly problematic I first watched 13 reasons why when it came out (TW SELF HARM) and used the method which Hannah did in THAT scene, I then watched bojack horseman and whilst it didn’t help directly I realised the parallels between my situation and bojacks and how I was becoming a similar cancer to those around me so I got help, the fact one was so good at what it meant to do it made me get help and the other was so bad it literally facilitated me hurting myself is exactly the difference between the 2
Same. For me 13rw was like Becker. Some of the elements were there but it never became good. 13rw went for a visceral reaction ecspecially in s4. Making myself watch s4, i had several amxiety and IBS attacks during the 3 days i binged that show and i was truly exhausted and relieved as the credits roled. The plot armor of it all. I personally wouldve shot clay in the shoulder and would've reccomended inpatient medical treatment amd therapy for his god and saviour complex alone. Then his anxiety, ptsd, apperant DID. And i consider myself an ally to the DID community so when they pulled that Fight club bs towards the end of the season i was so mad. And they never clarified if he 'had' DID or psychosis or some trauma induced amnesia.
On the other hand Bojack Horseman knew how to balance serious topics and mental health issues with humor and comic relief. And it wss also just an art piece of storytelling. Rarely do i find other shows where i genuenly dont notice that a cartoon horse has been monolouge-ing at me or into space for 26 minutes. That episode is a just chef's kiss. 😚👌 i related to so many parts of the story. Not Bojack our mainnarcissist but others, the selfloathing hit me in the feels though. So all around great show. The first season feels like any ol" sitcom and then at the end of s1 it hits you like a train. And from that point on its a character driven piece.
I'm sorry for being a cabbage, but why were you still watching something that was literally giving you anxiety attacks and IBS?
@@cameronjohnson918 I was wondering the same thing
I see what you did there.
Becker being brought up in a comment, free churro being brought up in the replies.
We've come full circle.
i thought the title was saying "13 reasons why bojack doesnt work"
I feel like bojack has so many character: with so many issues from different places that it’s hard to not see yourself in at least one, even a tiny bit. To have your flaws drawn out for you, to see how these flaws effect the lives of the people around is really eye opening, especially when the flaws are self destructive because you never really time the time to consider that self destruction is painful for so many others too
The view from halfway down poem made me realize I, much like Secretariat, actually wanted to live despite a sick part of me telling me I didn't. Suicide was in my head for a decade, but since the last Bojack season, I haven't really thought about it. I know it's not the real me. I remembered my view from halfway down without even having to fall in the first place, and I will be forever thankful to this show.
I'm with you up until 4:20 for many high schools they never see this. The school board sweeps incidents like this under the rug via ties in local government. My high school HAS a huge back log of straight up assault, sexual harassment, rape and negligence claims. Not to mention all the lawsuits they still have pending dating back to the early 2000s. All of which is extremely abhorrent in how they were handled by the school.
as someone who watches anime, i already understand why bojack being animated makes it 20x better
i think that that's a bit of a different situation
anime works more as animation bc it gives you more artistic freedom and the ability to portray much more (sorry if this makes no sense my computer is lagging rlly bad)
Anime is shit but cartoons are good.
@@-i6313 bro thinks he did something
@@raktimamchiforthe4thtime445 anime is dog shit get over it. Cartoons are a different thing that are actually watchable. 🥴🥴
@@-i6313 calling an entire sub-medium bad because of a few people makes zero sense
I remember being recommended 13 Reasons Why because I was a depressed teenager, thank god I didn't watch it
I don't really like how some people dissociate themselves from certain subjects just because it's a cartoon.
The point of the episodes still hit after a while tho
The pandemic stopped my senior year.....
I was going to say the same thing 😂
lmAO I THOUGHT THE SAME THING
Lucky youuuu. Wish I had the pandemic during high school lol.
Same can’t go to prom now or go to football games
Same here & I'm glad about it. One whole year of vacation yay. (Not going to college till late summer or early fall 2021)
Herb didnt die of cancer he was actually in remission but driving home from the hospital he carried into a truck fill of peanuts, which is what he was deathly allergic to
#ohnoitwasfullofpeanuts 😔😔😔
i think another major problem about 13RW is that, from what I've seen, there's little to no downtime. it seems like it's just one conflict and scandal after another, each trying to outdo the last. but shock dulls when that's all there is; you start to get numb after constant exposure to emotionally distressing scenes.
Bojack writers seemed to understand that basic writing concept, which is one of the reasons why, in that show, there's a relatively equal amount of time spent on day-to-day life of the characters and less intense plotlines vs heavier topics.
0:30 Herb survived cancer but then died from a peanut allergy right after.. but close enough so it doesn't really matter
It feels more serious to me because of my immediate assumption that nothing realistic can happen. These things happening to a talking Horse never takes away the punch
I like to point out a very huge factor. Bojack in the end actually paid for his crimes and actually got dealt with consequences. Clay got slapped with the most white privilege shit ever Like pulling somebodys gun and not getting gun down. He didn’t even have a rough upbringing that caused him to be the way he is he just stalked Hannah and was creepily obsessed with her after she died .
Them hiding Tyler and guns is a crime
@@alienunicorn4178 I agree . Like I said he got slapped on the wrist
??? You can't stalk somebody that isn't alive...
“people care more for people than animals” *laughs in minority*
This reminds me of the Atlanta episode where they replace a picture of a person with a dog at a shooting range and everyone asks the guy what’s wrong with him and why he would shoot a dog and all he says back is “why would I want to shoot a human?”.
What makes Boujack so compelling as a character is that he has so much problems that you're bound to find a problem he shares with you and then you see him struggle with that problem making him even more relatable
The crazy thing is he did get better. He went to rehab and therapy, got sober, became a theatre teacher at a college, treated people better, yet he still got treated the exact same. Which is fair. Him going to rehab didn’t bring Sarah-Lynn back, treating people better now doesn’t erase what he did before or the bridges he burned. No matter how hard you try to change and be better it doesn’t erase all the pain you’ve already caused, you can apologize until your head turns blue but it doesn’t mean the people you hurt will forgive you, or that they have to. You just have to go on and accept you did everything you could and that was the best you could do. You’ll never undo the things you’ve done and you just have to go on living with those consequences, as depressing as that is. It’s such a sad truth and I like that the show didn’t just try and tie it all up with a nice bow where everyone forgives him and they can be just as they were before because that’s not how life works.
this is such a good analysis you are seriously underrated, keep up the great work
Herb doesn’t die from cancer, he died after he recovered from cancer, got in a car crash, which he survived, but the other car was transporting a lot of peanuts which he is deathly allergic to.
Not to mention he was live-tweeting the entire event lmao
This show helped me a lot. But also: the airport scenes are the best thing I've ever seen. And that time Bojack and Wanda hit a deer and he thought it was a stick, omg😂
I really liked that Bojack had to face consequences and went to prison (even that was funny, he was there for one of the more minor things he did, breaking into a museum).
Bojack Horseman masqueraded as a funny show for me and made me learn some of the hardest things about myself
1) Mental Illness isn't an excuse to be a toxic asshole to people around you and no matter how you feel or what you intend to do if you do shitty things to people your actions still have consequences
2) it's fucking difficult to not let yourself become a cancerous, toxic douche sometimes but if you overcome that, genuinely connect with those arpund you, you'll be happier, you'll be able to love yourself again.
And 3) "The view from halfway down" is a terrifying sight. Now I know that from personal experience but revisiting that epjsode manages to bring all those feelings of confusion, regret, and just a will to live back up.
Bro nice vid but wtf is this music man
That's easy, because 13 reasons why it's like fast food industry. And bojack horseman brings the true taste of homemade meals in each chapter...
*I love your background music choices.*
The craziest thing to happen during my senior year is that I did most of it from home....
Ayyyy you’re back
13 reasons why, more like "4 seasons, why?"
I last watched your "Bojack masters writing video" and while that was great, you have improved even more!!! Waiting for the next video, I think that I will start trying your recommendations, and I totally agreed with every word in this video
Bojack horseman was such a realistic show that i could relate with a part of every single character at some point including bojack himself. Its very rare that i can say this. It was masterfully done.