Hero, Beast, or Both? The Complex Lore of the Centaur | Monstrum
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2023
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Humans have domesticated animals as beasts of burden for thousands of years and the vital role horses play in the evolution of culture in particular has inspired countless equine folklore, but none are quite like the centaur.
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Written and Hosted by: Dr. Emily Zarka
Director: David Schulte
Executive Producer: Amanda Fox
Producer: Thomas Fernandes
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This is not my joke, but... Chiron invented medicine . That makes him.... the Centaur for Disease Control.
It's interesting that you mention that centaurs may have served as an allegory for foreigners because in the TV series Hercules the Legendary Journey centaurs are often depicted as the victims of prejudice. A reinterpretation of an old idea perhaps?
Maybe associated with Scythians or Thracians by the ancient Greeks? Just a guess, to be honest.
@@philipzahn491 It's a good guess I think
No that makes immigrants play too much into a forced stereotype. Sad that immigrant can be victims but immigration doest equal victimization. But cool fun fact.
@@benjaminfeld6388 Thanks. 🙂 Amazons are supposed to be Scythians, I think.
Good memory. I miss that show.
I'd love to learn more about sphinxes, myself. Loving this season of monstrum so far!
Please make a video of the Phoenix.
3:02
That woman's face is a fair reaction. There are many layers to delivering a baby like that, and none of them are good.
Centaur babies should DEFINITELY come from centaur mothers if we don't want any, uh, severe complications
She's like "What the hell is this?!" lol
I do love the two origins of the same creature. Tells a lot about how people can use the same image to represent wildly different things. Thanks, Dr. Z! (Btw, I always love the outtakes at the end. Lol)
The dichotomy of hero and beast is interesting. It points to the dual nature of humanity
Very interesting that Centaurs originally had a very bad reputation 😮 I grew up thinking they were the most honourable creatures (thanks to Harry Potter, Chronicles of Narnia and Percy Jackson of course 😂)
Talk to some more sagittarians ;)
Percy Jackson does have the party ponies though, and HP ones are terrifying ultimately... We just don't *care* because we hate Umbridge. Which is a whole nother issue to unpack, I guess.
@@stellangios Umbridge deserves everything that she suffers in that book.
Talk to chiron and pholus the zodiac sign and constellation of sagittarius and the centaur.
Sagittarian horse here, born in the year of the earthhorse, in early december
Well Chiron was the instructor of many Heroes in Greco-Roman myth and is arguably one of the most famous Centaurs in Western Culture.
I feel like centaurs probably stemmed from the nomads that raided early agricultural societies. Considering that horses were domesticated around 4000 BCE, it does make sense that some nomads would either steal some domesticated horses, or domesticate the horses themselves, and begin riding them during raids, which may create the image of centaurs for people who had never seen men riding horses before. And since nomads were likely othered by the settled people and seen as the enemy of day-to-day life, it makes sense that they would be seen as savage and beastly
Not to mention that steppe nomads such as the indo-europeans (yamnaya etc) were quite warlike cultures that often raided the sedentary people around them.
Of course the centaur representation of these would incorporate their ferocity, violence, sexual violence, and drunken pillaging, as key elements.
Chiron, the Centaur for Disease Control
I do prefer centaurs as the descendants of Chiron. The more intelligent, yet still strong and fierce.
Fun fact Chiron is also sometimes said to be the paternal great-grandfather to Achilles himself. Guess that’s why they trust him with the kid in the legends
To that end I’ve actually imagined Achilles as a hot centaur with his human lover Patroclus
@@donnguyen1107 That is making me think painful thoughts.
@@donnguyen1107 If Achilles was a Centaur how the hell would he have worn the armor described in the Iliad?
@@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319 I was just imagining an au where Achilles and Patroclus get their happy ending.
Also a centaur can still wear a breastplate, helmet, cuffs and maybe a "loinguard"/kilt.
@@donnguyen1107 Not so sure about the loinguard thing. But that's some interesting imagination there.
Dr. Z is the best
The historical context makes Umbridge being taken by centaurs SO much darker, holy ****.
Centaurs are also the inspiration for one of the more creative aliens in sci-fi, the psychic, four eyed, scorpion-tailed Andalites from the Animorphs series.
Another person of high culture, I see!
I was hoping someone would mention them
Animorphs are my favourite series as a kid. Glad someone remembers it too!
The shock of seeing a human riding on a horse for the first time is EXACTLY what led to the stories of centaurs. When people first encounter something theu don't understand, they often end up misinterpreting their senses into very interesting stories. Legends, myths, folktales, etc, have some basis in reality, but are usually warped a bit by the shock of seeing the unfamiliar.
I never really understood why so many of the gods in Greek mythology tend to always sexually assault people.
Excellent vid Dr Z. I like that centaurs are likened to "others". Reduction of foreigners and fringe dwellers to beast-like creatures has been the case in some cultures well into the 20th century.
And into the 21st.
Unfortunately true. I was trying to be optimistic.
Centaurs are pretty interesting creature, especially Chiron because how different he is from the rest of them, and that kinda made him one of my favorite greek figures (but I admit that percy jackson also helped with that).
Lol, same!
I wonder if it was an attempt to reconcile the "Evil Outsider" concept with the "trained by Outsiders = better & more unique warrior" idea. Or if Chiron played a kind of ancient "token race character" as well. Or a way to reconcile Evil Outsiders with the foreigners you trade with and learn from. Like "Ah yes, all these Outsiders are evil. Except for Jim. We like Jim. Jim gives us cool stuff and taught us useful things But the rest of his people are evil".
A thought, anyway
@@meganofsherwood3665 perhaps centaurs are the cultural memory of chalicothere, an extinct ancient relative of a horse that had ape-like body and long sharp claws, basically a reverse centaur
There's a twitter stream- or there was, that was all ER physicians who asked hypotheticals like how to defibrillate a centaur. That discussion of anatomy was informative.
I pondered how the scapula of the horse can be attached to the socket of a human pelvis and the tailbone morphed into the rest of the horse spine.
I generally picture them as having no human pelvis. Their spine just merges into the horse's where the base of the neck would be, and the human thorax has stronger musculature partly to keep it upright so they can use bows etc. The human part at mid-abdomen starts blending into the horse with no hint of lower human legs.
@@CritterKeeper01 I can't find the photo again, but this young woman photoshopped a filly onto herself in the way I described that anatomy. It's what made me think of a plausible centaur. Two otherwise fairly ridged spinal columns brought together at a near-right angle is a major risk for injury.
@John Steiner That's why I picture the human torso being very muscular to fill up the space left over from not having organs there. It would be needed to support the greater weight and, as you say, the less than optimal angle between the two. A neck spends a lot of time leaning forward compared to the stance centaurs are usually pictured in, so even though the neck *can* be at that same upright angle, it would be harder to keep it that way almost all the time.
@@CritterKeeper01 That wouldn't change the fact the spine is constantly on the verge of breaking. Imagine the force generated when they're at full gallop and colliding.
@@johnsteiner3417 Don't horses usually lower their heads when running, in this case a similar effect to someone leaning their body into the direction they're rapidly traveling?
A centaur-like half-human, half-equine called Polkan appeared in Russian folk art and lubok prints of the 17th-19th centuries. Polkan is originally based on Pulicane, a half-dog from Andrea da Barberino's poem I Reali di Francia, which was once popular in the Slavonic world in prosaic translations.
Great video as always--I always wondered if it was simply a garbled memory of an invasion by nomadic horsemen. People unfamiliar with horses might have thought they were literally half horse. Interesting stuff, Dr. Z!
Not exactly a centaur, but no horse/human hybrid is more terrifying than the Nuckelavee, and I will die on this hill.
I was waiting the whole video for a percy jackson reference 😂 My day has been made now since that series is what got me truly interested into Mythology and how contemporary adaptations or retellings differ from ancient versions.
Love this video full of rich history and vibrant mythologies and cultures. Personally I’d love to see a breakdown of King Kong seeing as you covered Godzilla and Mothra. There’s a lot of info that could be touched on and educated on
I want to point out that Ixion was not simply having sex with a cloud. Ixion was eating with the God's a tried flirting with Zeus wife Hera. To test his Hybris they made a cloud clone of Hera. And because of this disrespect he was punished
Excellent, as always! I would love to see a video on the origins of mermaids, if you could!
I know there are plenty of mermaid history videos out there already, but I’d love to see one in your thoroughly-researched style.
Me too
5:06 It’s giving ‘Asura’ Energy. The ‘uncivilised’ outsider to the more seemingly sophisticated gods and humans.
I just feel so ready to see a video on bats bad reputation as monsters and it's impact from and to movies. You know, I think it makes sense to break down the legacy of dinosaurs as monsters in cinema and the impact it got from Jurassic Park. Lastly, I wish to see a video on the legendary movie gorilla monster King Kong and his impact on the reputation of gorillas.
Yes, bats! When I was a kid and my parents told me there was no such thing as monsters, I concluded that bats also weren't real.
the additional wings in early depictions make me wonder if the centaur was just an abbreviation for chariots. Because there is just so much room on a vase or wall.
You always do some nice points and show me some new things and facts.Ilove that about the channel. Centaurs for me were basically based on the greek mythology and Chiron. I had never heard about the Babylonion roots.Which was really awesome to find out. I noticed how you used the word chimera about Chiron. That was clever. Perfectly used. You've have presented me with a new thing: centauromachy. I had never heard about that. Which for me, a passionate of mythology is like a sin. I should have found out about that way sooner.
Oops, you mixed up KRONOS/CRONOS, the God of the Harvest, son of Uranus, and father is Zeus with AION/CHRONOS, primordial god and personification of time.
Still an amazing series that I'm excited about every time I see a new video
You should do a video on the Minotaur someday.
YESSS! One of my favorites cuz i feel he's so misunderstood. Like he feels more like an abuse victim than a real monster. Plus being half bull he beefy af.
And if she does, I hope they mention House of Leaves in a section about modern incarnations. I'm always a fool for "HOUSE OF LEAVES MENTIONED", although the video would probably have to double-major in Minotaurs and Labyrinths to flow thematically.
Excellent summary. It's succinct, sufficiently comprehensive, and entertaining. Thank you.
I’m always excited when I see you have uploaded a new video, they are super interesting! I would love to learn more about ents. I know very little about them, although I can imagine their origin stories go way back throughout different cultures. I also wonder whether my region has a history with ents. Much love from the Netherlands❤
There’s also some great centaurs made with other animals than horses. Centaur world was so incredible to make a whole show like that.
Centaurworld was such a wonderful fever dream lmao
When Order of the Phoenix first came out I said that the centaurs were dragging Umbridge off to r*pe her. At the time it was just a kind of headcannon since I despise the character so much. Then I learned more about mythology, including the fact that centaurs are actually known for being r*pists, and was impressed with my unknowing accuracy. 😳
I never knew Ventura’s were carnivorous but that’s what I love about you you open my eyes
The outtakes are my favorite
Hi Dr. Zarka🖐🏼
great upload ~ never get tired hearing about Centaurs💙
Isn't _Centaurus_ & _Sagittarius_ two *separate* constellations, though?
One is the name of a constellation of fixed stars and the other is an astrological zodiac sign, so yes, two different things. 😊
@@junemoonchild69both are constellations. Sagittarius just happens to also be a zodiac sign. Anyway, to answer the guy’s comment, yes they are separate. Sagittarius is “the archer” and is often represented by a centaur despite not necessarily being one.
I clicked so fast! Dr. Z is the best professor!
Ixmiquilpan Church Murals in Mexico has a centaur in one of its murals with natives fighting it.
Video idea for Monstrum: Cooties. Investigating these mythological monsters that have terrorized children consistently throughout multiple decades.
Off topic comment: That shirt looks super comfortable.
Thank you for another great episode
Gotta say... I'll never see Mr. Ed the same way again.
Wasn't Chiron's father Cronus (leader of the titans) not Chronos (time)?
She said his wife Rhea so definitely talking about Cronus, but not sure how god of time got in there.
Aren't they the same person?
The two were conflated over time and more or less became synonymous. A similar thing happened with Apollo and Helios and with several other gods. Either way, Chronos as a primordial embodiment of time is really only a thing in the Orphic tradition, he's not really a god in his own right outside of the mystery cult.
@@NKFraley Definitely agree that neither is actually a god but I hadn't heard of that blending. My ancient Greek classes viewed them separately but it may be dependent on the period of literature or specific writers.
Thanks for another interesting and entertaining video.
The bloopers make the show😂
I’m waiting for an episode on the classic swamp monster! Great episode as always!
I love Monstrum! These videos are so cool! I love learning about the origins of mythical monsters!
Thank you for the video. I always look forward to your videos. ✌️
I've often wondered how a centaurs' internal organs are situated. Where is their stomach? Do they have more than one?
Centaurs are amazing mythology creatures they are my favourite mythical creature
Fascinating
There’s so much that is lost to time… at the Louvre, on the neck of a Cycladic pithos, there is an image of Perseus beheading Medusa. Medusa is clearly a centaur. What, who, where???
Huh. Well, she is supposed to have given "birth" to Pegasus...
@@Vox-Multis and Chrysaor, a beautiful warrior with a golden sword. These symbols are so weird they’re dreamlike.
When I think of a centaur, the first thing that comes to my mind is Motaro from Mortal Kombat
Love these videos, you’re the best DrZ!
01:59. What about the belief the centaur is based upon "civilized" peoples' first encounters with Scythians, Parthians, and the other horse nomads of Central Asia?
Should’ve waited long then 2 minutes…
@@Trevin_Taylor I do not remember her mentioning the Scythians or Parthians even once. Just the Fertile Crescent and Persia.
@@dubuyajay9964 I was referring to the first encounters with foreign horse riding nations, as opposed to the specific nations themselves. The concept is the same just the ethnic group changed. Either way, she pivoted to that point after your comment. Also, what I said was meant as a kidding joke rather than an assault on your person. This was meant in good fun. We’re all friends here.
@trevintaylor8633 I did not think it was an attack. I assure you. I was just saying is all.
Centaurs may have been an artistic representation of cavalry or early nomadic horsemen of the central Eurasian steppe.
Wonderful. I love the idea of the centaur for some reason.
This is unexpected but yet I would've suspected you would've done it soon.
Great video
The bloopers at the end are fantastic. 🤣❤️ I’ve always loved centaurs and was surprised when I first found out how they hadn’t always been noble warrior/healers.
This was amazing love centaurs
This made me think of Irish mythology's tribes of people that settled on the Emerald Isle; one of those was the Fir Bolg. It's said that the tribe of people who became the Fir Bolg traveled eastward, were the most popular theory on where they went is mythic Greece, and were captured by the peoples in that land forced into servitude (made into enslaved people), and were forced to use their power to manipulate earth and stone to transform the land into land suitable for farming, they later escaped many generations later after become the Fir Bolg, the "Men of the Bag" or "People of the Bag" depending on who you ask, as a reference to the leather bags they either carried during their time of servitude or the leather bags they had with them when they escaped their time of servitude; they brought back with them all the excess soil they had left over from reshaping the land in the place they forced into servitude and used it to cover the Irish countryside with soil that was far more fertile than the rocky ground that covered most of the land of Ireland.
Although, if we're talking about how other cultures were demonized as monsters, chances are the people in Irish lore called the Fir Bolg were depicted as savage giants who possessed the power to impact the shape of the land by the Greeks as a way of rationalizing the horrible things they did to that particular group of people.
The historical context in this video really makes Umbridge’s kidnapping a lot more complex. I wonder if the JK Rowling really meant to subtly suggest that Umbrige was sexually assaulted by the Centaurs.
Hermione clowned on her by pretending to be a centaur by stomping up and down the hall while Umbridge was in recovery after the attack.
JK Rowling wrote that the students wrote their essays and such on "parchment" (aka. animal skins, instead of using a word for scrolls or paper). I don't think she really knew what she was doing.
Thank you so much for the pronunciation of C-Hiron's name! I didn't know it was pronounced like that.
I’ve heard it on several audiobooks where the CH is pronounced as a K (K-iron). It might be a British thing though.
Did you know that there's even an aquatic version of the Centaur as well as a deer version.
The aquatic version is known as the Ichthyocentaur, which has the head and upper body of a man, the lower forefront half and front legs of a horse, and the tail of a fish.
Meanwhile, the deer version is known as the Cervitaur/Elaphocentaur, which has the head and upper body of a man and the lower body, legs, and antlers of a deer.
Truly a beast the centaur
Missed a golden opportunity about the role of centaurs as zodiac symbols (Sagittarius).
So the Kassite kentaurs had four legs, two wings, and two arms.
That's a lot of limbs for a mammal.
And to think my own ideas about centaurs were hugely influenced by the VERY strange Titanides of John Varley's "Titan" series. He had uh...quite a lot of fondness for them. But they were educated, gentle (mostly), and deeply caring beings.
The sexual predator version of them is far more awful of course.
It is no doubt unkind of me, but I have always taken a certain grim satisfaction in Umbridge's fate. My reading of the situation is that the centaurs saw themselves to some extent as the protectors of the children of the school - and they were enraged by her actions. It's been ages since I read the books or saw the films, so I can't recall clearly if that was ever explicitly said. Normally I would not say such things. But if anyone could "deserve" to be roughed up by centaurs, it's that character. Even if "all" they did was drag her through the woods all night.
Yeah, I have to agree with you on Umbridge. As I recall, the kicker was when she called a crowd of angry centaurs "Filthy Half-Breeds" to their faces in the middle of their own territory. As I recall, they leave the kids alone though, something about it being against their policy to attack "when you are surrounded by your young" or something to that effect.
And as I recall, Dumbledore (who had spent years cultivating/earning the centaurs respect and trust) simply walked into the woods and walked back out with Umbridge in tow, which seems to speak to a "If you treat people with respect & worth, you won't have these problems" philosophy
Good video 👍🏻
perhaps a bit off topic, but I remember reading a tweet that noted that the main character's name in "Moonlight" is probably a reference to Chiron the centaur, so that combined with the idea that centaurs were used in ancient Greece to represent a violent Other??? bruh, my brain is exploding with close readings right now
It's time to get centaurded ya'll!
You covered the centaur,NOW THE SATYR.
If anyone used my bones to make a art piece or for a social experiment I will haunt there kitchen cabinets.
The centaurs reminds me of Ancient Egypt and how their gods had the heads of animals.
Please make a monstrum video all about mermaids please
How do they get enough air? They got a set of human lungs and a set of horse lungs, but only a single human nose. Seems like it could be a problem.
Every time I say centaurs are my favorite mythological creature, people accuse me of being a monsterf@cker 😭
The pukwugie would be cool for an episode
Chiron was a centaur who practiced medicine, which made him the centaur for disease control =)
Centaurs are the best mythical monsters ever
Over the years centaur's brutality and savagery have been downplayed...except in The Legend of Zelda.
I what the episode about glawackus. It's my favorite mythology creature
10:02 I remember a similar story about a ‘mermaid’ which was a fusion of 2 creatures.
I saw a portion of the true Cinderella story through a church petition. It was beautiful and like this. The chicken became a woman to trade places with her at the Tax collectors house. She ate garbage and it was a "tell" poker style.
Daffy and Donald, two of the most fearsome ducks! Why are ducks anthropomorphized the most?
the Nucklavee of Scots folklore is a grimdark centaur
But how do they sleep? In a stable all knelt down on top of themselves legs tucked underneath torso limp or out in the open on their side basking like a horse or on a huge human bed. Possibly some kind of rigged up and overly complicated hammock system. What would centuar fashion be like out of a fantasy setting? would it be diapers or four legged jeans and a wife beater vest, what about formal clothes?.. oh Do they go to vets or doctors? Which bit is the organs in? both, or just an extra set in the horse half, or human half depending on your perspective? How do they shoe themselves? it would be some act of contortion to do it themselves.
Good video. Storied. I always liked the race of centaurs. I also always felt the Romans kinda got a little bit of a bad reputation in one regard. Whether it was fair or not so. Sometimes they seem to be seen as their Gods being clones of Greek Gods. That has to hurt their pride just a little.
Two back to back Monstrums? Sign me up! 😂
12:22 I remember that scene clearly from Order of the Phoenix, serves Umbridge right! Also, Dr.Z, where would Centaur Man from the video game "Mega Man 6" fit into the centaur mythology, given that he's a robot and not a creature of flesh and blood?
Imagine if the guy making the carvings just didn't know how to draw horse faces so he just refused to and nobody could make him because he was the only guy who could draw horse legs.
My favorite modern representation of a centaur is Ludwig from Bloodborne: a terrifying merging of horse and raider in the nightmare world of the game.
In centaurworld... 🎶
WAAAOOOH!
Great video and all, but you only covered one Specific kind of Centaur - the Greek Hippocentaur aka the Horse-Centaur, but there are many other centaur-like creatures from around the world, such as:
Onocentaur - Greek - Donkey Centaur
Pterocentaur - Greek - Centaur that is a Horse with Pegasus-like Wings so basically a Pegasus-Centaur
Ichthyocentaur - Greek - Centaur that is also part Horse & Fish like the Hippocampus so basically it's a Mermaid-Hippocentaur hybrid
Bucentaur - Greek/Roman - Ox/Bovine Centaur
Ipotane - Greek - basically a Horse/Hippocentaur but with only Two Legs
Elaphocentaur - Italian - Deer Centaur
Cynocentaur - Italian - Large Dog Centaur
Urmahlullu - Mesopotamia - Lion Centaur
Aqrabuamelu - Mesopotamia - Scorpion Centaur
Anggitay - Philippines - practically the same as a Greek Horse/Hippocentaur, but is sometimes depicted with a Unicorn-like Horn on the forehead, so basically a Unicorn Centaur,
And That's only the Tip of the iceberg, there are plenty of other centuar-like creatures in myths & legends from other countries, so many that you may need to do a new video that talks about Centauroids(creatures that resemble Centaurs), if you're interested in such a thing that is.
Nice, sis, good video, maybe next dwarves or orcs or minotaurs
Centaurs are strange. And Sagittarius month is already here. So watch out for trotting hooves!!
Thanks for sharing. This is interesting. I have Centaurs in my world. In my stories, Centaurs live in a wild plains and they are very angry people. Matdor Rage who teaches magic, weaponry and trains students in the arts of defence, has very violent outbursts. He is okay if you agree to him, but don't say no to him...he is very well known to break things and his temper is somewhat legendary. They are very demanding, hostile and not so understanding on anything. Very rude, uncaring, abrasive, stubborn, judgemental and hard to deal with. They are prone to anger outbursts. Matador often puts holes in a wall if he doesn't get his own way. Anyway now, this video is very helpful.