How many ratlings guns is too many?
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- čas přidán 4. 10. 2021
- Answer: no such thing as too many.
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Killed 2635 Units, lost two. to friendly fire. only had like half of your ammunition left. Super close victory.
somehow amo spent counts towards victrories i had pyric victories as woods whit 0 loses but all ammo spent
When you use guns of the empire every victory is a close or Pyrrhic victory. If Skaven go through ammo at the same rate then yeah I wouldn’t be surprised
Roleplaying as the US Army
Game:Ammo counts as units.
Us:wtf?
@@hamasaken ammo is very expensive. rats are free
If the air you're breathing isn't composed of 80% Ratling gun fire there aren't enough ratling gunners.
Decent dakka but not even close to enough
It kills me every time Legend's inner Skaven comes out when he's talking, with such warp-twisted glee.
What gets me is that it's Clan Eshin with all the guns and catapults lol
The only Skaven lord I need is Legend
@@Th3M4k40n It's a new player so it was probably convenient.
Legend is a Skaven Warlock Master yes-yes, the council deemed it so.
@@Master0fHamsters HE IS THE GREAT HORNED RAT!! YES-YES
Ratling guns are like dakka. There is never enuff!
But ratling guns are literally dakka...
@@link670, cheese flavored dakka. Not blessed by Gork or Mork. Not that orks wouldn't use ratling guns if given half a chance but Warhammer Fantasy Orks aren't to that level of Kulture yet.
Off topic, but in Underrail(great game btw) your Gladiator Name in the Arena can be Dakka Dakka. No Idea what earned me the name but that was a damn nice surprise.
OI! DEM RAT GITZ GOT IT!
Ready your murder-death-kill devices!
"cheese is a supplement, it's not supposed to be eaten on its own" sad 3AM French noises
also, best community ever, we see legend getting almost burnt out with warhammer 2 and he's sent a 10 ratling guns army
why just 3AM? Cheese for me is all day
I don't know where you found your French but let me tell you one thing : it's always cheese time in France (a "saint-marcelin" or a "rocamadour" are always welcome, any time of the day)
@@Yetidelamontagne And it's not a supplement, it's perfectly eatable on its own
@@Yetidelamontagne I was simply referring to memesdecentralisés, who made a meme with pretty much what I said, cheese is usually eaten with bread or something but at 3 AM when you just went home and are hungry, you don't have time for such considerations and just destroy the reblochon or the comté etc
Not saying that 3AM is cheese time but that 3 AM is destroy the cheese in one go with absolutely nothing else and most certainly not remorse
@@baudsp yes cheese all day but usually not on its own
12:10 legend realizes his mistake of not making 19 ratling gun stacks
What about two skryre doomstacks walking together, both being 1 Engineer lord, 2-3 engineer heros, 1 warp cannon, and filled to the brim with ratling guns?
@@guilhemnavarette9310 good luck in siege battles
@@guilhemnavarette9310 way too monotonous to be a proper skaven army
@@nicoruppert4207 The proper skaven army consists of like 80% to 90% skaven slaves with the other 20% to 10% being units that either commit tons of friendly fire damage, or eat skaven slaves when they feel a bit hungry. And the total numbers of said army is almost beyond count.
@Jungliet_
There’s always the shogun 2 strat of “just siege them out” although you loose a sht ton of time and I’m reminded of why I use “no siege battles for minor settlements” for most campaigns.
Just to address some accusations:
- The only warlock engineer I had access to at that point of the campaign was attached to Ikit Claw.
- I was trying to use the army of slingers as my "almost free" skaven waaagh! :) Worked pretty well for some battles
- As I saw several videos I thought, that doomstack of Ratling Guns means - as much as possible, but with inclusion of Jezzails and artillery
- I thought I could win the battle for myself, but those shooters simply refused to shoot. They didn't want to shoot at all.
Anyway - thanks Legend for taking an effort, for your time and for another great advise :)
Something Legend didn't really cover a ton but is essential for any weapon team army is terrain. If you get shit terrain (e.g. tons of trees or hills) you may get screwed because their shots do not arc much. Especially ratling guns, which essentially have no arc so must have an extremely clear line of sight to the enemy. If a ratling gun isn't shooting it's probably because there is a small dip in the terrain or they're obstructed by other troops. Zoom in really close to see what the units see.
That's kind of the one weakness of the weapons teams roster in my experience. Having this many ratlings could end up really screwing you over if you ever do a forest battle, so my recommendation is to avoid fighting wood elves on hometurf, bringing a different army comp, or just bring enough force to auto resolve it. One or two death globe bombadiers would probably be a good idea also because they can really arc their shots and dish out a shitton of damage (also great for sieges).
Ratlings are really sensitive to line-of-sight as they have little to no bullet drop. Slings and arrows don't care about slight bumps in the terrain (whether that bump is a hill or a skaven "ally"), but gunpowder units will often just refuse to fire without a clear line of sight.
I occasionally do the whole slaveslinger fodder army with my weapon teams, but you have to try to tie enemy units down in a way so that the guns still have clear killzones. Forming narrow columns with your slaves with wide gaps between units can work - the enemy will wrap around them and they'll get flanked a bit, but who cares? They're skavenslaves. They only have to survive long enough for the enemy to eat warpstone.
The trick with rattling guns or any gunner is that it has to be placed downhill for maximum effect.
Top of hill is bad because the back rows will have the front row blocking their line of sight and thus only few will fire or not fire at all.
Most new players do this mistake.
Zoom in on the unit and check what every entity can see.
Downhill pretty much guarantees every entity has line of sight, however this also means that optimal terrain is needed.
Which translates in the harsh reality that you cannot have too many gunners or rattling guns in your doomstack because of how hard it is to find a good position to all of them in every map.
4-6 rattling guns is usually the most you can place on every map on average and have them doing max damage.
You can see legend how worried he was that his rattling guns were not well positioned, he literally moved them 4 times minimum.
Warlock engineer would have helped but it wasn't the main problem, the crowd control was however.
2-3 plague priests would have given you all the crowed control you needed and you can recruit a lot of those.
@@jeffvella9765 putting them at the bottom of the hill can be a good idea. Especially if there's a flat space at the bottom. Leaves the enemy really exposed and you can shoot over your summons from that angle
As mentioned by others, include:
- 2-3 Plague Priests; use the winds of magic on Vermintide (Clan Rats summon), preferably at the sides or backs of incoming enemies (so your Weapon Teams can still shoot easily), and Plague (static Vortex spell, very damaging), preferably when the enemy blobs up. Also good for sieges.
- 1-2 Warlock Engineers; provides more range and damage to your Weapon Teams, and can act as an emergency tank (better at higher levels when you have spare points to put into their personal stats).
- 1-2 Poisoned-Wind Mortars; primarily for sieges, damaging units on walls or just behind them, preferably by changing target with each volley as they leave a 10 second damage over time. Range is really good, so even works outside of sieges. Rattlings and Jezzails don't deal well with sieges.
With your Lord included, thats 5-8 slots used, so at least 4 slots left each for Catapults, Jezzails, and Rattlings, with any extra slots going to either more Rattlings or some people enjoy using Globadiers, Warpfire Throwers, etc.
Reikland was going for the “Zap Brannigan versus the killbots” strategy in this battle. Looks like ratling guns don’t have a kill limit though.
Now to celebrate with some Cham-pag-n
They technically do, it's when they run out of bullets.😁 Reikland just needed to bring 2 more stacks of spearmen to reach the limit.
He just didn't commit hard enough. The jezzails and artillery already hit their kill limits, Zap was so close to winning.
lmao didnt expect to read that here
@@ItsAVolcano they only have a kill limit if you’re not ikit claw… love that you can get unlimited ammo turn 1…
"You don't just - Oh, I'm gonna, just, eat a block of cheddar."
Speak for yourself.
This is actually a good demonstration why the machine gun is one of the most tactically significant weapons ever invented. In case you ever wondered why tactics changed in a matter of years from tight formations to sitting in a trench for months or years. Most of the new tactics and weapon systems after that have been to try and counter the effectiveness of machine guns.
When I was like 10 I was watching a WW1 documentary. The tactics at the very start of the war were very Napoleon era. March, don't break, ETC. Then some BRITS with machine guns were just mowing Germans down on the screen & my tiny brain couldn't wrap my head around the reality of technological advances & the devastating effects.
@@DunceCapSyndrome I couldn't tell which exact countries, but there have been battles where horse riders were literally fighting against tanks, imagine how scary that must have been
@@evoknz The Poles in WW2 did that. Glorious death, ridiculous but glorious.
@@DunceCapSyndrome Italians still hold the title for the last effective horse charge in history. It was in Africa, against British tanks. They just charged into the enemy formation, throwing molotov and bombs. Many casualities were just the brits paniking and shooting each others.
@@langolodelladistopia6171 It’ll come back when the Mech horses rise up. (Cool fact btw)
before the battle , 10 ratling guns is a little too much....
after the battle , we need more ratling guns....
That skaven "BULLSHIT" at 15:18 kills me every time yes-yes
0/10 didn't kill enough friendly troops for a skaven army
You don't need to defend your ratling guns if nothing is alive to attack your ratling guns
This disaster battle seemed to have lifted Legend's spirit a little beat. It was almost like a treat for him. Let's send him more disaster battles with armies he like.
Legend you sound like a young pup again, good to see you taking care of yourself while trying to have fun again. Skaven yesyes.
Skaven is the most treacherous beings in warhammer world.
"Skaven need teamwork to do well"
Yes-yes skaven teamwork is impenetrable.
for once Legend didn't had any skavens to sacrifice as meat shield, so he had to make them all work together
>You dont just eat a block of cheddar
I feel personally attacked right now.
*_"Can I have a piece of cheese on my ice cream please?"_* - LegendofTotalWar ... probably
"There is no I-I in weapon team!"
How many ratlings is too many?
There's never too many ratlings, only never enough ratlings.
I am pretty sure the guy who send it in just struggled with the hellstorm rocket battery. the battle was basically fixed after they were gone. A single unit of hellstorms can do such fatal damage if you don't deel with it immediately. It's imo the most dangerous artillery in the hands of the ai. (also dangerous for themselves, because they don't care about collateral damage).
I actually like jezzails a bit more than rattlings. Especially as clan skryre on ME, because you often fight bretonnia in the beginning and jezzails just delete cavalry. It's almost a hard counter to them.
RIGHT? Empire is the scariest faction for me in the late game. I have to try my best to neutralize those damn rocket batteries somehow and then battle is managable but my god, its so hard sometimes. maybe cus im mostly playing elfs and they have shitty artilery
The other thing that I bet they didn't do, is untick control large army.
In all honest - no. I was able to get the rocket battery and the other piece of artillery with the catapults. What caused a problem was that my rats were simply NOT SHOOTING! Like at anything. They just sat there and wait for the Empire to smash them. But it's good to learn something new in the video.
@@marcintomkiewicz4144 ah then some kind of hill was blocking your rattlings. one small tip. Zoom in and try to look from your rattlings perspective. Some of the hills and bumps are not that easy to spot from a very high camera angle.
@@HeavyMetalGamingHD There are also weird hit boxes on some maps where even though you can see they should have a clear line there is something blocking it.
The only thing that Would have made it more insane is if it was clan Skryre with unlimited ammo for rattling guns, such a good faction and really enjoyable to play.
Gotta say this is one of the most enjoyable disaster battles vids I've come across, mostly because the breakdown helps us noobs a ton
How many ratling guns is too many?
Yes-yes!
Thanks for actually answering this question for me legend, I have been wondering for a while how many rattling guns are too many.
The truely skaven thing to do would be to allow the man-things to crush clan Moulder, then take Hell Pit for yourself and crush the armies while theyre still weakened.
"What is this invoice-voice for 'One Mordheim's worth of Warpstone' for-for?"
I’m playing a clan skyre mortal empires VH/VH rn and the armies I’m using have 7 ratling guns, healthy balance between legends four and this guys ten. Two to angle towards the flanks and five as the frontline. I’ve shredded every army that’s approached it with the Jezails killing enemy lords, it’s been great
4 always seemed low. I'd rather just replace a couple Jezail slots to get at least 6
And then Leon loencour come to play with ya
@@zahrashahbazifard727 Thats like sending a missile at a US-Navy ship... its gonna get shot down from the air by a happy little brrrrt-bot. (Phalanx CIWS)
@@Otakahunt I'd say it depends, I've seen him end up with some seriously ridiculous amounts of magic and missile resist. Granted, the times I saw this I was playing Chaos or Tomb Kings, in which those did not really help him, as Shaggoths care not for your loads of magic resist, nor your missile resist, they merely crush you. As for Tomb Kings, it was a sphinx spam, so he didn't have fun there either. But assuming he somehow doesn't end up with about 90% damage resist to ratling guns, then sure, 4 to 8 ratling guns or Jezails could probably easily take him down before he gets close. Thankfully I've almost never had to deal with him having high resistances when playing missile or magic heavy factions, mostly cause I'm either allied to him, too far away, or he's already dead. Kinda depends really.
@@zahrashahbazifard727 yeah I always have my engineer front and center with that stop flying units spell for this specific reason
Legend, you should come to France, the country of cheese. We have cheese for everything and every taste. Here, cheese can be a meal by itself if you just take bread with it (tho it's not healthy so be careful)
Cheese is like babby jesus rattlings gun. There is never too much of it
"The country of cheese" *Netherlands wants to know your location*
I went to Netherlands, and as far as i know, there aren't as many typed of cheese as here in France. Like is there any other country with thousands of types of cheese ?
@@gatsu2017 yes, it's called Italy, lol
Well guess i have to perfectionate my knowledge on cheese
Ah yes, more lines for the Legend voiced Skaven Mod.
This player has single-handedly rewritten the book on Skaven army strategy.
About as expected.
an army of skaven guns defeating any number of stacks without taking any damage.
Favorite part: 12:08 to 12:36 "The gods have abandoned us!" in the background lmao
this is what i imagined if our modern day armies found a way to total war warhammer's world
New player: How many ratling guns should I get?
Legend: YES.
Skaven are almost the spiritual precursor to the Warhammer 40K orcs. I know there are orcs in Warhammer Fantasy, but they play much different than their futuristic selves.
I actually use between 6 to 10 ratlings in my armies and they do the job really fine.
The thing is. Suppression fire and good range makes it so the enemies spend way, way more time under fire. Flying opponents can be killed easily with Warplock Enginners locking then. Your biggest enemies will be low model count fast units, such as cavalry. But jezzails can take care of them just fine.
That little bit at the end about cheese not being a meal really made me laugh, and made sense x)
There is no such thing as "too many rattling guns"!
9:18 his inner skaven showed for a second 😂
XD spot on. and again at #15:19
This is like how I build my Skaven armies. Generally replace the plague claws with 2 mortars and 2 warp fire throwers for whatever gets too close.
Miss the streams man but happy you're taking care of yourself and enjoying life. Enjoying the content!
love how they just shoot through each other
thanks CA!
I love seeing these sorts of vids with skaven as I love skaven and I'm very new to total war and it helps me learn
TFW when you are a proud soldier of Karl Franz and march to battle with your trusty sword only to discover you're in a graviteam tactics game.
Listening to legends rant on cheese in skaven mode was my morning highlight
Thinks 10 is excessive but is making happy skaven noises at the amount of shots those 10 are putting out.
what matters is how many ratmen you can spare to hold back the waves of enemies for the glory of ratling gun teams. theres a formula for all of it.
damn the stream break is rly doing good for you :D you even sound happy relaxed and rested (y)
12:11
Legend - This is totally wrong...
Also Legend - I ******* love it.
unless you get ambushed or fighting in a forest battle with wood elves.
then say good-bye to loads of daka
I did this in my first Skaven campaign and it’s the epitome of the phrase “50% of the time it works every time”. The battles will be decided in the first volley and the rest of the fight is more or less a formality. No last minute turnarounds or nail biting finishes, just slaughter for either you or the guys you’re shooting at.
PS
Cavalry is a nightmare to deal with if you run this army, do not try to use this against the Frenchmen. You will rage quit after your ordered lines get dismantled for the fifteenth time.
Remember kids:
Ratling guns are a perfectly acceptable Frontline unit
love how that inner skaven comes out here and there in the voice .
That Skaven voice is the greatest. It got me every time lmao!!!!!
"As much as I think this is an excessive amount of ratling guns" - I love the smell of warpstone in the morning.
Overlapping fields of fire is a beautiful sight.
Legend: that's an excessive amount of ratling guns.
Reikland: agree
It may not be optimal, but I'll be damned if it isn't glorious.
Omg the sound effect when he zoomed in on the cav magnificent
I love how Legends sometimes reveal his Skaven side.
12:32 what a spectacular display my lord
Love the last couple thumbnails.
How many rattling guns do you have?
- Yes, yes!
Its never too many. Never.
Ratling guns. For when they don't stop comin.
By sigmar it's raining warpstone
Another question this brings to mind is how many warlock engineers is too many? stacking them makes the weapons teams very deadly and heroes do ok for crowd control. There is some nice ratios between plague priests, engineers and weapons teams/arty. i probably go a bit heavy on warlock engineers to buff the weapon teams
The Cheddar goes on the Stilton.. or else it gets the hose again...
As a person from Wisconsin I resent the cheese is not a meal on itself
My favorite army build is Dorf's. 2 Master Engineers, 3 Bombers, 4 Full Spec Ironbreakers 110+ Melee Defense, 10 Quarrelers. Most times I run Grombrindle. His blue line is just to good. Corner up, send out bombers and draw agro. The wall of Ironbreakers with 50 million arrows flying over their heads gives me a giggle every time. Not to mention to come in on the Ironbreakers gets you a bomb to the face. I like running artillery sometimes instead of the bombers but the bombers are just sooo much better at taking out other artillery and large monsters.
I like a front line of ratling guns and behind that poison wind mortars, get em from the front and explode them from above.
this is a fun army, regardless of its efficiency. Grey seer and a warlock engineer instead of snikch and the eshin sorc, and this could be pretty decent tbh. Its definitely fun to watch.
Immortal Empires feels like a game I've been waiting 20 years for.
Sure do wish I was better at managing all my troops during battles though
A block of cheddar as a quick snack is pretty S tier ngl
When he talks about cheese his skaven voice comes out
"you don't just eat a block of cheddar", in America that's happens.
Every day. Legend draws further from God and closer to the great horned rat.
"I like cheese Gromit!"
If cheese is a part of a meal this army was basically cheese fondue... and I love it
*sits down with an 8oz block of Vermont White Cheddar and a knife* Tis but a snack!
*maniacal Rat laughter in the distance"
Wait you're not suppose to eat a block of cheese by itself???
Damn Legend I feel a bit called out.. lol
12:11 best legend quote
@LegendofTotalWar whats ur rig and settings? Cuz i cant maintain 60 fps on the final scene of skaven benchmark with rtx3070 OC and r5 5600x OC to 4,85...
15:59 "You don't just eat a block of cheddar"
Maybe I DO! Don't tell me how to live my life!
So... We're all gonna need a video of you doing all these thumbnail faces lmao XD
13:25 Damn reminds me of that scene from warhorse🤣🤣🤣
His computer during volleys: 🔥🔥🥵
How many ratling guns?
NOT ENOUGH RATLING GUNS
N E V E R E N O U G H R A T L I N G G U N S
I don't get weapon team spam without Iketclaw. Infinite ammo workshop upgrade op.
Eschin magic is ok but the big advantage is a stalking caster, I like it for sieges as I can sneak them up on a wall and create a choke point below and cast Black Whirlwind. it is as close as you can get to a flying caster with skaven... excluding rocket boots...
How many Ratling guns? Not enough Ratling guns. NEVER ENOUGH RATLING GUNS
Nah mate, grab a bag of mozzarella and eat it like it's a pack of smiths
Every time I send legend anything about 4 hours later he does the same race and in this case a similar army. I should start a prediction post on reddit!
9:19 man w-went a bit sk-skaven there for a s-second yesyes!!
Clan Skryre/Clan Moulder doomstacks are fun as monsters don't block that much space for weapons teams
I tend to use a grey seer plague lord, plague priest and 2 packmasters for summon-based crowd control in about half my armies and 4-6 single entities like Doomwheels, Hellpit Abominations or Mutant Rat Ogres for crowd control in the other half. I find it impossible at some point to keep building enough hero capacity to keep up with the amount of armies I'm pumping out so Ive opted for this split. Not sure how you guys manage to get so many heroes in all your armies.
And I've actually found 6 Rattling guns to be optimal. I'll have 4 aimed at the front and one covering each flank. The shooty stack will be something like 6 rattling guns, 4 jezzails and 2-4 catapults. The RoR death globe mortar unit is also amazing. Always get that one.
Somewhere a weirdboy floating in the space " I felt a great disturbance in the Waagh, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear a lot of dakka has happened."