Answering Atheists - The Meaning of life
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2021
- Another answering Atheist stream where myself (Hamza) , Subhoor (Darwinian Delusions) and Yusuf Ponders (Pondering Soul) look at out Atheist address the question of the meaning of life.
- Zábava
5hr stream!! So cool ..jazakallah for your dawah brothers
That 17 year old is more mature than many older men and women may Allah guide him
5hrs and the best the atheist could offer was "freedom".
@3:08:00 Hamza says: Thank you for making space for me 😁. The caller did not get it but subboor did.
Surah Ma'idah 5:54
O believers! Whoever among you abandons their faith, Allah will replace them with others who love Him and are loved by Him. They will be humble with the believers but firm towards the disbelievers, struggling in the Way of Allah; fearing no blame from anyone. This is the favour of Allah. He grants it to whoever He wills. And Allah is All-Bountiful, All-Knowing.
As somebody on one of these streams once said, 'they take our worst, we take their best'.
Subhan’Allah thanks for explaining that to me
Alhamdulillahi rabbi al'alameen Ameen
Brilliant. Looking forward to the next stream.
Bay yaqeen . A typical example of an 'ex Muslim' who 'left' islam but won't leave Islam alone. I think he is terribly disturbed by leaving the haqq. His soul is troubled because he has gone against his fitrah. May Allah SWT guide him.
Really enjoyed the discussion with Karlos. Respectful and fruitful.
May اللہ guide him.
Super excited to watch this!
at approximatley 3:40:00 on the quality of life. I'm currently in morocco with inlaws who dont have consistent running hot water but they're much more happier than I am back in the UK
Karlos: respectful brother. Love his input. His example of theism leading to nihlism because of the authoritism is incorrect because the authoritism he referred to isn't from theism but human nature
Ma'esha Allah. True, there's no right guidance but d guidance of Allah. Authoritarianism is from the secular or marxist, socialist world view. Allah bless you and increase you in goodness and all of us.
Assalamualaikum, what's authoritism?
Very interesting maa sha Allah! Yusuf is lyk a storyteller..he really knows how to talk articulately! Everyone is lyk a gem here, really loved it! Jazak Allahu khair brothers!! ❤
Excellent work ikwani
جزاكم الله خيرا
Baraka Allah fikum bro , i miss it today
What a stream hamza I'll be a patron from next month
Jazakallahu Khayran Ahsanul Jaza
Just to clarify a small back and forth I had with Hamza (I should have said at the time), accepting nihilism I say is the harder choice than theism mainly because you have to accept that you are finite, and there is nothing necessarily special waiting for you and the likelihood is that you will not survive your death and continue to exist. That I feel is a much harder concept for most people to accept, than what theism offers as an alternative explanation.
However unlike Subboor, I don’t conversely say that theism is a coward’s way out but I do say it is the easier choice when presented with nihilism as alternative. But our finiteness is either true or not true, and if it is objectively true then we have no choice but to accept nihilism (as we do agree would be the case).
I can only speak for myself but accepting nihilism in principle (the whole package) does not dictate my life in any practical sense. I live my life as if this is the only life I will ever have but having the freedom to dictate my own life, act in accordance with my desires, making others happy, being good for the sake of being good (and not for reward/recognition) is what is truly liberating for me personally. Just because in principle there may be no actual intrinsic purpose to life, does not mean any of these things are meaningless because the “meaning” itself only needs to matter to me for it to become meaningful. If you want to call all that just an illusion as a way of facing my reality, I could probably accept that at least.
Thanks for the informative chat guys really enjoyed it, hopefully we’ll chat again. Keep up the great work! 👍🏾
To soil we will return as a good fertiliser. Quite a happy ending for a conscious, thinking species. Isn't it? I know what you meant by 'harder choice'. Why don't you entertain God's existence as a possibility rather than treating belief as a mere alternative tool to nihilism?
I do wonder. You're an intelligent person. What's your theory on conciousness? Where does it come from?
@@One-rr8um when we are buried our energy returns to the ground, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it as we have always dined upon flora and fauna. Debatable whether it is a happy ending or not, but not debatable that this is our reality.
I am not a hard atheist so I do not make any claim that God doesn’t exist, I’m just not convinced God is likely to exist. But then of course it depends on which/what type of God I’m being asked about at the time.
@@deistormmods thank you. It’s something that science cannot answer with any certainty but if I was to guess I would say there is no good reason to believe consciousness didn’t just emerge in the same way gradual way that everything else about us that makes us human emerged. Evolution would be the best guess. There are many examples of modern day species at all levels of complexity in terms of consciousness which serves as good evidence to support this theory.
There are direct and indirect evidences of God. Direct evidence - the Qur'an and the life of the Prophet pbuh..you need to read and analyse the Qur'an by researching authentic sources to understand and appreciate it.. and indirect- the complexities of the universe..the complexities of life form..it points towards intelligent design..the DNA in your cells is more complex and contains more information than a computer or a an encyclopedia..how did the nucleotides come together to form such a complex molecule which is like the writings in a book? Sections of DNA code for a sequence of amino to form proteins. The cell structure and processes are too complicated to have arisen from nothing ..with no direction, no control, no plan. That's a brief response.. may Allah SWT bless you and guide you.
This is so amazing
@1.59:15 The pineapple eating you. It's so true, I was in stitches 🤣.
I love how YusufPonders' standby picture is Rick with a beard and kufi! It just simply answers and gives the solution to all the questions and ideas posed by that show which are originating from atheism.
When Brenda was saying that we don’t actually believe in what we believe in was hilarious lol. I’ve heard many atheists say this recently they are pushing their nihilism on to us.
is he join the stream? i didn't see him
@@selaluoposisisiapapunpresi7982 near the end yes
@@samiulhaq9895 oh, i thought thats only for a muslim,,but thank you btw
Less than 20mins in, mic drop moment from Yusuf: is there a reason to value reason
What time ??
@@sisterfleur7523 19:33
If I have even had 1% of respect for Brenda, it was completely lost when she/he said those disgusting Islamophobic statements about Islam in the end. This has clearly revealed the pathetic true intentions that Brenda has.
I wish debates wouldn't disintegrate into these "tribal" or the "us vs them" angry conversations. It's sadly gonna happen sometimes. Bc like Hamza said there are ppl who wanna spit on you no matter how much you might try to reach out or have a common ground. But i think Hamza and Brenda were never going to have an enlightening discussion anyway 😅
Even though he stated before that he as no problems with Muslims or Christians 🤷🏾♀️
Masha Allah great chemistry between the brothers.
Brenda, you are in such a darkness that you can't even see that you are in that darkness 😂😂. That's why Allah says in the Quran : 2:171. "The example of those who disbelieve is like that of one who shouts at what hears nothing but calls and cries cattle or sheep - deaf, dumb and blind, so they do not understand."
Asalam U Alaykum. Just to touch upon the brothers question about nothingness (this might be a bit long but bare with me InshAllah)
The first point that we must mention is that the argument that the brother used was not the "Contingency" argument, but rather it was the 3 premise deductive KALAM argument which was proposed by Al-Ghazali and popularized in modern times by William Lain Craig.
Another caveat that I would like to mention is that I personally prefer to use the KALAM argument interchangeably with the Contingency argument (this is something that Imam-Al-Razi also touches upon when he discusses "Al-Mumkinat" or otherwise known as "possible existences")
Without getting into the nitty-gritty of both arguments. The brother essentially said that the atheist tried to negate the whole concept of nothingness as being incoherent. And this we agree with 100%. The concept of nothing being something ontologically is incoherent as we have creation. The very fact that we have creation negates the concept that there was nothingness in the first place (due to infinite regress).
And this is a reason why Allah (swt) ridicules this concept in Chapter 52 of the Quran. Allah mentions such an option to show the disbeliever that without Allah (or in this case an eternal being) you must concede that one of the options is creation from ex-nihlo. This is ridiculous
So the sentiment that the atheist was sharing that nothingness makes no sense is true, because creation entails a prior cause (whether this cause is temporal, i.e. within time. or a-temporal. i.e. outside time).
So what are the options. since nothingness is incoherent as an explanation for the existence of finite realities, we are left with there needing to be an eternal being/thing, that is not composed of parts. The reason being anything composed of parts is limited and generated.
I don't want to go on longer, but in essence this is a glimpse of how both KALAM and contingency can be used interchangeably. It all depends upon whether the interlocketer accepts a finite or infinite universe. Either way an necessary, all-powerful being must exist. And that fits with the basic definition of Allah (swt) in chapter 112 of the Quran
Alhamdulilah for Islam. And Jazak Allahu Khair my beautiful big brothers for another fantastic stream
nice stream
With Deity Defeater, the panel could i have asked him to ask his questions or make his statement and then remove him from the stream. Then answer him.
It wouldnt be a perfect situation but at least that we get to hear his point of view.
Taqabbalallahu Minnaa Wa Minkum
I honestly thought Brenda was smarter than that... oh well
They get very emotional. It can erode logic at times.
Honestly I was shocked at her level of reasoning and rationale. She's obviously a self taught person who doesn't have any credentials or qualifications in what she speaks about.
@myname ismyname ultimately I believe that's a choice they make not that they really actually believe they're born that way. Is it surprising what ppl can convince themselves? Most ppl just needed a little push. They will learn to want, enjoy or believe anything about themselves and others. Programming. Like Yusuf's story about 12 of 500+ ppl who dissent while everyone else rationalised and then descnded into "madness".
Yusuf nailed it with Bay Yaqeen masha'Allah. 3:20:00
10:59
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Hamza, do you have a podcast on Spotify?
Hope we can see Jordan M in those panels in the future Insha'Allah.
Lol
@@mohammedzakariya428 What's funny
Thank you for your time. May Allah bless you all 🌺
Anyone who is an atheist, I invite you to believe in ONE God and believe in all the messengers. Being a believer you have nothing to lose if there is a God or not, but being an atheist you are more at risk. For example, you are about to travel to Japan then you come e to know from a friend that there is a nuclear explosion and the only way to save yourself is by wearing a specific protection gear. By knowing this are you going to take the protective gear with you or not? Of course you will. If there is really a nuclear explosion the gear will save you, otherwise if there is no explosion you are saved anyway. Same way believing in ONE creator and all of His messengers, you will be save one day if there is God and hell and heaven, but if you are atheist and there is a God you will have one way ticket to hell fire 🔥. However, if there is no God both believers and atheists have nothing to lose. So logically speaking being a believer in ONE creator and all of His messengers is wiser choice than being an atheist. Peace ✌️
Beliefs lead to conflicts, when the beliefs are in gods sooner or later you will kill each other over them. This would work itself out but for the fact believers not only kill each other but drag the innocent into it, like me and mine.
@@davem9176 Disagree! True believer in God are the most peaceful people. I wonder who was Joseph Staline and Hitler. Were they real practicing believer in God? They killed few millions people.
@@davem9176 Joseph Stalin's , an Atheist, regime killed 20 million plus. This is a fact and it destroys your claim that religion leads to killing. How about this claim to help you: People kill regardless of ideology.
@@seekknowledge2010 Stalin was raised catholic, studied to be a priest, and his tyranny was no different than a theocratic one. Hitler was raised catholic, in mein kampf hitler said he was doing Yahweh's work, he was a believer.
@@Daljirka-Dahsoon stalins tyrannical dictatorship was no different than theocratical ones, and he was raised catholic and studied to be a priest, so that god influence must have been all bad.
Salaam panel. I don't know but I have Pakistan friends and Canadian bro sounds jus like one, perhaps he's been in Canada for 5 years or so? But certainly Pakistani origin. All brothers doing great Job! May Allah accept, ameen.
good
Just when I thought I had enough, 4:41:04 happened!! Subhoor 🤣🤣👌👌👌 btw u need context to lol at that!!
@4:06:35 Yusuf hands Subboor a mug
@@jakedaniels9565 bro....
@@jakedaniels9565
its a joke fam....
haha,how come it's really fitting
43mins Hence the saying, "There but for the grace of God go I", but I agree with Hamza, the theist would now be an atheist.
subboor and yusuf are like freddy and jason
Can you please debunk rationalityrules channel and sean carrol
How is slap you around english slang?
It's in the English language 😉
Can anyone help me please, What to say about cells, do they have brain and ability to think and do what they do?
Cells are the basic units of living organisms.
Pineapple eats us ,
SubhanAllah
👍
Freedom to ignore the truth
Yusuf ran this show, Sorry Hamza
2:16:11
What an absurd discussion from Brenda..
Quran 45:23.
23 Hast thou considered one who takes his caprice as his god, God having led him astray knowingly, and sealed his hearing and his heart and placed a cover upon his sight? Who, then, will guide him after God? Will you not, then, remember? 23 The caprice that people are said to take as their god is defined as the inclination of the soul to passion and lust (shahwah). The verb from which caprice derives, hawā/yahwī, means both “to blow” and “to fall or tumble,” and when combined with the preposition bi means “to overthrow.” Caprice can thus be said to be something that blows the soul one way and another and overthrows the soul through the calamities of this world, making it tumble into an abyss (al-hāwiyah, from the same root, h-w-y; 101:9) in the Hereafter (Iṣ). The word hawāʾ, meaning vacant, from the same root, is also used to describe the vacuity of the hearts of disbelievers on the Day of Judgment (see 14:43). In this vein, the Prophet is reported to have said, “The intelligent person is one who takes his soul to account and works for that which follows death. The inept person is one who allows his soul to follow his caprice, yet hopes for God” (Aj). References to God’s misleading or causing to go astray (cf. 13:27; 14:4, 27; 16:93; 22:4; 35:8; 40:34, 74:31) can be understood in light of 2:26, And He misleads none but the iniquitous, to mean that going astray is a result of one’s own iniquities and not the outcome of arbitrary predestination. Those who are led astray are thus those whose hearts, according to several verses, are “veiled,” “covered, ” or “sealed” so as to prevent spiritual comprehension (see 2:7c; 6:25, 46; 7:100-101; 9:87, 93; 10:74; 16:108; 17:46; 18:57, 101; 30:59; 47:16c; 63:3; 83:14-15). Regarding the question, Who, then, will guide him after God? see commentary on 7:186: Whomsoever God leads astray, no guide has he. And He leaves them to wander confused in their rebellion. The rhetorical question Will you not, then, remember? is one of the Quran’s many invitations to reflect upon its parables and proofs or God’s signs in order to facilitate spiritual understanding (see, e.g., 11:24, 30; 16:17; 30:8; 37:155; 56:62; 3:191c).
Contact should be made with Jordan Peterson as he has a major platform.
He has said ignorant things on Islam but who hasn't. He's said he'll study Islam and probably will. His 12 rules advise honesty so I expect he follows that rule.
An online discussion like he has had with all the major new atheists would be timely.
Muhammad Hijab would be my choice.
How do non Muslim come across to debate is it advertised
40 min Everyone has a "leader" or is s slave to something.
The richest person in the world can be a slave to his business or desires.
45mins
We're not tested in every possible life senario.
We won't all be guards at a nazi concentration camp or members of a drug cartel.
"There but for the grace of God."
Thank Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala for my test in this life.
1hr 15hr
Having the truth Islam v living an illusion.
He's convinced there's no meaning and settles for that belief, studies philosophy (presumably knowing that's pointless from his pov) rather than study Islam incase it is true.
May Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala bless him with guidance.
Jazak Allahu Khayran
Alhamdulillahi rabbi al'alameen
belief is false because it can always be destroyed. You can never have certainty
thats what you believe
Brothers the Buraq did not go up with the Prophet to the heavens . i keep hearing this and do not understand why you brothers do not correct this!
Is it just me or are the streams lately not as good as it used to be . I think we should do streams on Islam now .
It's you 😬
It's nice to learn and expand your knowledge on things you may not know. There are many lectures on Islam but very few like these which tackle secular ideals like these. It increases my emaan and helps me understand the world better.
No.
Nope.
@@HamzasDen if you say so brother
True. Especially this one. The quality of the guests is went a bit down, especially in this rather unproductive stream. But our brothers are doing their best ma sha Allah. Would love to see the Quran/Islam streams. Its literally the best way of Dawah. Dont understand why its getting delayed still?
Aphyxium.............what an embarrassment.
Cockles are delicious! And there's nothing wrong with pineapple on pizza!
yeah bro sadat isnt been to tropics yet. invite him
2:40:33 Was Nietzsche a secret Muslim...if he lived in Muslim lands, I guess he would be Muslim...interesting
You can be a humanist rather than a nihilist. Don't need to attach a negative label to urself.
But ultimately, what’s the point🤷♂️
@@mohammedzakariya428 no ultimate point, but its about how ppl see their lives worth living. If we say that its the atheist who attaches meaning to things or events (actually just listening to the part where Yusuf is debating Brenda - Feb 6th) they aren't claiming an ultimate meaning (or permanence). If we just turn to dust noone (or nothing) has ultimate meaning (in their godless worldview). What if you have a non Muslim parent or child; when they die you will have to forego the meaning you gave to your blood-relation and your past history with them (including lovely memories of them). The atheist can hold onto those lovely memories bc they will not believe in an endless separation from them forever. But once either of them die that person ceases to exist for the other. Memories will not be hurtful or meaningless for them as for a believer who lost a disbelieving child or parent. It is why ppl fear death bc they fear the permanence of eternity which atheists reject so they (meaning atheists, believe they) are free of those potentially painful consequences of faith and belief in eternal rewards and punishments. The brother after Brenda sees this question of death as tragic for atheists. But for believers its even harder sometimes bc we dont all have muslim relatives. A born Muslim has no idea how other ppl deal with grief and so on. I dont think the death of a child has to be harder for a disbeliever. It just is part of life. Its not selfishness. It's just a process of grieving. No offence to Yusuf but humans all grieve they are still emotional beings.
@@Diamondraw4Real We are all here with our conscious for a short while, we are just seeking the truth and the meaning to our existance. It’s one level above your woke view and the reason is that while you have sensitives of this world and you can give your mind ease and behave sensibly, no doubt your family, education, experiance has led you to this behaviour. All I’m pointing out is that when someone really wonders deeper these excuses are not acceptable in deciding what is right from wrong.
And when you can’t ground what is right from wrong it is really hard thing to accept, live with and cope. I invite you to learning more about Islam.
@@mohammedzakariya428 tq bro I dont know where you got the idea from my comment that I have a non Muslim point of view. Peace
Bay Yaqeen and Brenda next time you're on you need to pay the troll tax if you want us to listen to your drivel. Better still please go away and troll someone else.
Suboor, empathy is not a fiction, is real
and is the base for morality without God.
Prove it emperically
@@TravelBandit did you ever felt empathy for someone ?
@@HumanistThinker
Depends. Can you prove it
@@TravelBandit yes or no, can’t you give a simple answer?
@Raine Riny 7 good, then is not a fiction as Suboor stated, that's my point
Subboor,
at 2:17 you seem to reveal publicly someone's hidden sins that he may have shared with you in private and did not expect to be shared publicly. I believe this is not appropriate unless he had given you permission for this.
I mean 2:17:30
Fear Allah brothers!!! Pinapples are great on pizza!!
Bro they have no taste bud . There misguided.
Karlos needs to understand that Islam isn't just another religion like christianity..he keeps categorizing Islam with his former beliefs which is common among non-muslims.
The funny thing is that a lot of these people still celebrate Xmas I put up a tree tell their children Santa brought you toys etc they are happy to tell their children fairy tales!
LOL no human being has ever discovered the meaning of life and his purpose on his own. Meaning without the guidance and direction from the Creator. It becomes all so subjective whatever you feel is the meaning of life or purpose. Even still you may not even be a person who asks those existential questions if you are a nihilist. Because you're not looking for a purpose and meaning in life. Cuz you've already decided there isn't one. Here is an analogy I like to use. If I dumped out onto the floor a million pieces of a computer say a supercomputer. And I asked you to put it together without any instructions. you can't identify any of the pieces and how they are to be put together and ultimately what the supercomputer is meant to look like when it's finished. do you actually think that in your life that you will ever have The time or the ability to put it together. so this is how you're suggesting to go through life with no instructions with no Guidance with no direction and just figure it out. And life can be more complicated than trying to identify the parts of a supercomputer And put it together. I think your position is ridiculous. As absurd as not having instructions and being expected to put this computer together.
Answer this............👚
This stream should just be to chat with athiests, not muslims.
Atheists were afraid to jump on
Atheist here. Have any questions for me?
Brandon is really annoying
Atheism or nihilism and the idea that life is meaningless. Vs. Theism and believing that life has a meaning and purpose. He keeps suggesting that the idea that life is meaningless is the reality. I would say as a theist that life having a meaning and a purpose is the reality. Atheism or nihilism leads to being a slave to the societal Norms rules and laws. But in the end it's all meaningless and following these Norms rules and laws is also meaningless. Leaving you feeling empty and unsatisfied and unhappy. It can also lead to having anxiety stress worry depression and believing that the people that are above you in Authority are controlling your life. Having a subjective set of morals also is meaningless. you can't attach a value to it because what you believe is moral the next person may not. As a theist I believe that we have objective morals that are laid out for us by the Creator. Avoiding all of the pitfalls and ills of society. While maintaining good values and principles that lead to healthy relationships whether it be with family Friends neighbors the poor the needy the Wayfarer or even animals. It gives you a sense of Peace because you have a better understanding of the reality than those who do not have the guidance of the creator. I would not trade my way of life Islam For that of an atheist or someone who considers himself to be a nihilist. You have a choice as the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion.
The meaning of life is to live.........survive and propagate.
If you can think of a purpose to life outside of survival, then this will be your personal purpose. So there is an individual purpose and an overall purpose to life.
And you do not need a god to have a purpose.
Why ? What's the point?
@@shirexx1What's the point of life?
To live and propagate. Can you prove that's not the point???
@@scottholder4431 u want me to Proof a CLIAM u made or disproof?
@@shirexx1 Im waiting for you to prove me wrong. It looks like you can't.
@@shirexx1 If you can't prove me wrong, why should you or I think Im wrong????
The purpose of life is to reproduce. Biology 101, you're welcome, glad i could help. Next time just ask and save yourself a lot of time
Biologically speaking the purpose of Life is not to reproduce but to SURVIVE. Babies and grannies do not reproduce but they insist on existing - Advanced biology beyond your level 😁😁😁😁.
@@Daljirka-Dahsoon to survive long enough to reproduce and with some species to rear the young . survival is only for reproduction as many species die after that. No reproduction no survival for the specie.
Basically according to atheism we are no more than intelligent animals. No morality whatsoever.
@Anti Hatun do you mean Isa? Nothing about his story is historical other than he lived and died.
@@zakirnaikahmaddeedat3651 wrong. Atheism is about a lack of belief in gods. Humans are animals by definition. And other species show morals. And morals are a product if social animals like humans that need each other to survive so the greater good was and is the utmost of importance
How is it better if ur imaginary friend in the sky gives meaning for you?
I would rather make meaning myself rather than someone else make for me ?
Brenda destroyed 4 muslims hahahhahahhab
Make meaning yourself? That would be subjective, not objective so hence its make belief or imaginary.
Having a purpose in your life is what everyone seeks, it is a rational thing to ponder over. We simply believe that all of this has a Wise Creator that gave us purpose in life.
FYI, we don't believe God is in the sky.
Brenda literally proved how she makes up a imaginary, subjective "meaning" to her life which makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Brenda is not a intellectual nor are you.
@@mohamudahmed6554 how is it objective if God gave meaning for you?
God's opinion about me is just one more opinion, it's still subjective.
@@SIFT20 you assuming God don't know you while he is the maker of you,,its like you assuming the maker of a computer don't know what the computer thinks,don't know the meaning of a computer
@@selaluoposisisiapapunpresi7982 when did I assume God don't know me while he is the maker of me ?
@@SIFT20 you said its still subjective
Hahaha.. all the taxable business are haram.. Muslim life is too dull.. .