A Good Enough History of Dungeons & Dragons
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- Ngl, this video is half convenience for viewers, half me giving myself time to work on the Warhammer video.
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One thing I’m proud of. DND is very very popular in the US Army. Not just in non combat arms but with combat arms as well. During range time, me and my tank crew would talk over character ideas. It was such a good time!
That sounds sick. I can imagine after coming back to base after a fight you and your mates sitting down and playing dnd as an escape
It has often been said that the only two places you can always be guaranteed to find a DND game are college campus and an army base
I learned 3.5 while enlisted.
Side note. It was an actual Marine fresh from boot that got me stuck on Warhammer 40k and a brand new game called Space Hulk. We played it non stop during a convention before he had to start fleet. So Space Marines were brought to me by a US Marine.
Bit late to this comment, but my dad got into DND because of the army, and now it's a big part of my life as well. Side note about the very same dnd group, the DM ended up sleeping with my dads at the time wife, which also led him to getting with who is now my mother. So, if it wasn't for dnd I literally would have never been born!
Can we just appreciate the fact that dungeons and dragons was name by a 2 years old kid
yes
Totally could have released this as "the advanced history of dungeons & dragons"
Wish I could smack u for that pun 😆
"Dungeons and Dragons editions usually coincide with someone getting fucked over"
Eerily prescient, Davvy.
Legit 5e just needed a 5.5 to fix the outdated rules, or bring back advanced to do the same thing lol.
Now we see the wheels of history repeat again!
Sorry for not putting out an ACTUALLY new video this week, but hopefully next week’s Warhammer video will make up for it.
Its alright uwu
only a question, did you made first the 33 minute video then slice it or is this a compilation? because the transitions between episodes its very very smooth
@@amadeusgamer7000 Total accident. I made them all separately. I think that part 2’s script was done when I started editing part 1, but definitely not part 3.
Ooh, Warhammer. That’ll be interesting… despite the only thing I know about it is like… a few memes. Btw, would it be possible for you to cover Powered by the Apocalypse style games in a video sometime? I wanna try and look into them as they seem like a good TTRPG entry point for people who have barely heard of them, but I’m not quite sure where to start with it.
It's okay Davvy. As self-appointed representative of your fanbase, I forgive you.
Clearly, of course, I speak for all of them and am not just posturing for the sake of comedy.
FIRST!
damn
You did it. You are the first man.
@@DavvyChappy Congratulations. Now we wait around for God to take one of MrRhexx's ribs and make Eve with it.
*The son of a beloved creator of a massively popular and incredibly influential piece of geek and nerd culture destroying his father's creation and legacy for profit.*
Dune Fans: First time?
Oh a new Davvy video! Nice! ....... Hold up a minute...
The disappointment of Dragon Dice and their CCG, Spellfire, were a big factor, certainly, but an equally important element was the contraction of the brick and mortar bookstore infrastructure. Bookstores were already getting squeezed, and found themselves glutted with just too many D&D novels, and entire chains started pulping the books, returning the covers and asking for their money back, which had a knock on effect as publisher Random House demanded it’s refund too.
Just here for the algorithm. Go get em, chappy
As an avid 4e player and DM I really appreciate this summary of the history of DND. Unlike most of other CZcams videos I've seen (except for Matt Colville and a few others) that just say "4e Bad", this is actually pretty accurate. Thank you so much. That being said, I would have added that by the time BECMI was folded, it was as if not more complex that AD&D, allowing characters to manage armies and realms and ascend to divinity
You know if you talked to an old gray beard like me I could have just given you the time line and all the correct history. I have it on a ZIP drive in my basement. :)
Thanks again for making these. I've played DnD since the 1st edition and I never knew most of this.
IMHO, Dragonheist: Waterdeep is one of the absolute best ways to start a long term Forgotten Realms campaign, or even (as an experienced DM) introducing non-Gamers to D&D. There's a wonderful mix of combat, roleplaying, intrigue, problem solving, and worldbuilding (literally in the case of the tavern), and the four alternate potential Big Bads means it can even be played more than once with totally different outcomes.
Wait, gencon is short for Lake Geneva Convention? I had always thought it just meant General convention
Geek and Sundry being both the platform that hosted Vin and was the starting point of CR is something I was never this actively aware of.
Good job, Felicia Day.
We can thank that 3e OGL for the OSR movement too. Swords and Wizardry, OSE, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, and other reworks of OD&D/B/X/AD&D1e would not have been possible. Very thankful for that OGL...
Fun fact about the OGL... it doesn't actually grant anything other than permission to use a logo. Game rules aren't subject to copyright, full stop. TSR never owned the rules, WotC never owned the rules, HASBRO never owned the rules.
They can own the art, they can own the trademarks (many of which would be very weak trademarks), but the rules themselves aren't copyrightable and aren't protected by the larger copyright for the full rules books, which include lots of protected non-rules text.
Wizards knows this, most of the OSR knows this, TSR learned about it when they tried to sue clone games in the 70s.
@@josephcarriveau9691 I know game rules aren't copywritten, but instead of having to fight that in court or fearing having to fight and pay to fight (which most indie publishers would have a hard time affording even knowing they would likely win), the OGL is an invitation to innovative, which goes a long way from my perspective.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 that's just it, there is no "fight in court". It's a "dismissed on its face" situation and an invitation to an anti-SLAPP or anti-competition case.
The OGL is a handcuff that locks you out of fair use of a long list of concepts that WotC doesn't actually own. You gain a logo, you lose the potential for brand differentiation on a long, long list of fantasy tropes that are scene a fair and long since entered the public domain.
Ima watch the full History again, why not?
The best damn summary of D&D I’ve yet watched. Thank you sir.
On the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, there was this incredible Buck Rodgers game. It was just a stripped down D&D ruleset (2nd Ed), but translated to a vid game really well. I think it was initially a PC game. But it's reminiscent of the Gold Box SSI D&D games.
That 4E Pun killed me. So yeah, good stuff.
Now I hope to see a 5.5 edition with a mix of the easy to understand 5e rules and the customization provided by the 3.5 rules.
Isn't that kind of the point of Unearthed Arcana?
Unless someone get fuck over, I don’t think it will happens
5e is too profitable to split the market by releasing 5.5. They learned from 3e that releasing a .5 edition just fractures the player base into disparate factions. They learned from 4e that releasing PHB 2, 3, and 4 or DMG 2, and 3 just muddies the waters and drives your players off to experiment with games that only have one core rule book. Like all the Cypher system games, the different Powered by the Apocalypse games, Call of Cthulhu, and most stuff on kickstarter.
I genuinely believe the people counting on 5.5 or 6e to come in and "save the hobby any day now" are fooling themselves. 5e is making more money and generating more media attention and public awareness than all previous editions of the game combined. Hasbro and WotC aren't going to walk away from that by releasing a new edition.
If anything they'll just release a third "So and So's blank to Everything" splat book with more "optional" class feature replacements and secretly treat that book, Xanathar's, and Tasha's as the 5.5 PHB.
*cough cough* pathfinder 2nd edition *cough cough*
@@CitanulsPumpkin Did you have insider knowledge of monsters of the multiverse when you made this reply? Are you an actual wizard?
After this and Warhammer, Id love to see one done for Battletech, that OTHER war-game that still exists despite... well... everything that happened with Battletech.
This was really cleverly done and made me laugh a lot! Excellent work.
I watched these videos as they came out, but I will happily watch this one, because you deserve lots of Watch Time, Comments, and Likes for summarizing this history.
Someone every few years:
“I’ll make my own D&D, with blackjack and hookers.”
It's so ironic. Loren was scared that Ernie was going to over throw her, and destroyed him. And a few months ago the moment Ernie's son brought back the whole TSR group, and WotC was so scared that they'd be over thrown. Sadly history repeated itself. Honestly I wouldnt have mind if TSR competed with D&D.
Yeah, despite his personal opinions, he deserves a chance to compete on the market.
I was supposed to sleep, but I started watching this and it was too interesting
I think something that has been really working in 5E's favor at least recently has been their setting guides a la the 2e flood. Sure they're leaning too hard into the MTG settings and could really do with some dark sun right about now, but Ravnica, Theros, Ravenloft (despite the changes made to OG ravenloft, it's still a solid book that does a redo on the worst part of CoS), and ebberon are all fine books in and of themselves, and as a DM those books have my creativity humming more than SKT, Princes, and even the original CoS ever did.
I know everyone and their brother seems to love 5E but alot of us that have played for decades went back to playing the earlier versions after 4E. I know many people that still play 3rd edition and others that only play 2nd edition or specialty campaigns like Dragon Lance as it just had a better feel. I can see for a new player 5E is very approachable but its hard to compete with nostalgia.
Yeah I don't play 5e. We play 2nd in one group. We played a even more streamlined then AD&D 1e RPG called Castle and Crusades that Gygax contributed to. I also have fallen in love with DCC (Dungeon Crawl Classic) that has honestly more in common style and play wise to original AD&D then anything called D&D now. If new players love 5E that's great I wish them luck, and the more people in the hobby the better, but I am afraid it doesn't do it for me. Then again I also think Critical Role is more of a budding drama club then a real gaming session.
This is a great video Davvy! Deserves thousands of more views.
Very well done.
12:35 dont worry😅 disney is no longer in the position to buy anything, for the foreseeable future
This is awesome
Yup
21:18
OH! I GET IT!
It's because there's a undercased 'e' in beFOUR and an undercased 'e' in seEn!
Gosh darn I'm smart!!
Awesome info
this is gr8!!!
Your best work so 4. Easily the most memorable account of the WBRPG!
Where's the art @4:37 come from?
well now we can add OGL Debacle to the list of the history
Its funny ive been intrested in D&D for awhile now, watched a bunch of videos and read alot about it etc, but never played, i wonder how many people are in the same boat...anyway nice work with this one!
Commenting cuz algorithms. Keep doing what you do Davvy!
31:00 HOLY SHIT WE GOT AN ESPECIALLY THE WIZARD Oh my god I never thought this day would come
God this shit is super interesting
Hey thanks for making a video that you didn't have too. I enjoyed it.
This was a fun ride, but I’d encourage you to strike a more scholarly tone next time. I know it’s a tightrope between educating people and entertaining them, but I actually had to look up the Mike Mearls thing after you breezed by it, and I’m still not sure what you mean by The Soulless One. Is that Hasbro? Makes sense. But still, a little confusing.
That supplement in the back chainmail of may have inspired Dave Arnison but Dave Arnison created Blackmore by which is recognised as the first incarnation of dungeons and dragons which was then stolen by gygax and chainmail is nothing like Dungeons and Dragons your information about who did what is extremely wrong
Great video, nice to have all 3 parts together. I give it a 4/10 😅
12:29 Watching this in the middle of the OGL business, and this is still true.
Just for my sake - who exactly IS the soulless one?
Orbsah the Uncaring.
Er, it is Hasbro, as the comments of part 2 have elaborated.
@@m3tomrom cool cool didn't read those comments because I didn't know I had to.
Expressively the gizzard.
I call scams.
Some of the points in this video hit extra hard now.
When Davvy talks about "The Soulless One", I'm never sure if he is referencing a specific person, Hasbro, or Corporate Capitalism in general. Not sure if I should be asking for clarification or not, since defamation lawsuits are a thing and calling somebody "The Soulless One" might qualify.
Oh, how history repeats itself...
In the end, they were right, 5e is ending with someone getting the short end. They just tried to make it be third party creators and the community at large.
There is an ironic lesson here.
Money ruins everything. Especially friendships.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you… Monopoly!
@@Len0Grady Well it was invented to show the Sisyphean brutality of capitalism after all. And is apparently accurate enough in it's portrayal that rich men use it unironically as a tool to teach others how to be rich. Perhaps they were unaware that the game was intended to mock them. Or unconcerned. Likely the latter.
Thank God for D&D XXX and by God I mean Gary G
nice
My four big games magic dnd pathfinder and call of cthulhu
mmmmm love me some long format content..
12:30 Well, turns out you weren't wrong, but it was the community screwed
This makes me feel old 😕
So... History of Rolemaster?
I'm so happy this game survived. I'm so unhappy Lorraine considered herself a Christian. She's a devil.
I don't know if "the soulless one" is a recurring joke or just a fun stupid mystery Davvy purposefully left hanging but I am DYING to know
And yes, I could just look up "Hasbro CEO" online or something, but it'd be cheating
I love dungeons and dragons best fantasy game ever made
Algorithm boost the good content
Said it before but 4e just gets a bad rap. I've played every edition except the original and 4e is still my go to favorite system.
Sacrilege !!!!! Heresy !!!!!!!! Abomination !!!!!!!! .............
Agree to disagree. 4e has a lot of issues mainly in how slow and tedious the combat is. I’ve seen fights take 3-4 hours even with optimised builds and it takes even longer if the players haven’t minmaxed. This wouldn’t be an issue if the game had loads of different combat options which would make players be observant during combat and look over their options. Instead you just cycle through your powers. You can just tune out of a fight for ages before coming back whenever the DM wants you to roll for something. Also monsters having powers as well is torture for the DM having to keep track of that many cool downs and temporary effects.
In my mind the issue with 4e has always been that it is built to act more as a carefully balanced game of chess as apposed to a fantasy simulator.
@@joelsasmad Thing is is that the game lent itself, imho, more to playing fantasy than 3e and 5e, hitting a good middle ground for those who feel like they NEED skills and those who love old school D&D where skills weren't really much of a thing. Combat was, yes, a major focus of the game, but that's the case with EVERY D&D game since the games were built from and hearken back to their wargame roots all the time (Armor Class is from a naval wargame, after all). 4e balanced the classes by using the AEDU power system (tweaked and refined as the game went on with new takes on it from the psychic classes to the more "basic/generic" Essentials classes) but gave us backgrounds, themes, better races (in terms of how the races in 4e were built, each feeling really unique compared to the others) and more to really flesh out our characters while giving INCREDIBLE advice to DMs. Even to this day I hold up the 4e DMG and DMG2 as books any DM (or game master for other systems) should reference do to just how good they are.
@@Okami_HD I think it's rather peculiar how I always hear people talk about fights being overly long in 4e. Like, they might be a little longer than they are in 3e or 5e or the like but they aren't slogs like the ones I remember in other games. Heck, the longest fight in any RPG I ever played in was a recent one in Pathfinder 1e where me and the rest of the party (4 other characters of level 7) spent nearly 7 hours in one fight. And I'm not sure what you're going on about for monsters having powers since even the most power-heavy monster in 4e pales in comparison to those I've seen in other editions where people would have to break out multiple rulebooks to play monsters that have spells or have specialized defenses or someone would argue that the monster is a member of X race and therefore should suffer from Y penalty due to Z reason which slowed the game down while everyone scrambled to the online SRDs, printed books and the like to find the rulings.
In 4e the most robust and powerful monster has 2 generic attacks and 6 powers (3 being recharge abilities which simply means that said monster just needs to roll a 1d6 and roll the number on their stat block or higher) and some skills. Compare that to the most robust I can find in the SRD which has 4 different Legendary Actions, 1 regular action attack, and 26 spells which means you'll need to be cross-referencing with at least one other book (the PHB) to make full use of.
That's about it.
And if you're having trouble with cooldowns and temporary effects, those have been part of D&D for years and years and were mercifully streamlined in 4e - now they either last until the start of the monster's/player's next turn, the end of the monster's/player's next turn, or until the target makes a save against it (target number is 10+ on a d20 roll) at either the start of end of it's next turn. Compare that to a whole slew of abilities and spells and the like in other editions that read out "lasts for X number of minutes/level" or more which meant far more book keeping (on top of all the book keeping 2e and 3e and even 5e monsters bring to the game). Funnily enough a LOT of rules about monsters and such were ported from 4e to 5e such as goblins being skittery little punks and the like (4e = Goblin Cutthoat has the ability to shift 3 squares at-will as a move action, shifts never provoking AoO; 5e = a generic goblin can do a Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action each round).
Ernest Gygax preferred to be called Gary, his middle name.
Henry Ford II wasn't Henry Ford, no matter how much he wanted to be.
@@andressotil4671 But we're not talking about Henry Ford, are we?
@@ilexgarodan yeah I know, I was just taking the line from the Ford vs Ferrari movie
:)
10:05 ah so Karen
We all HATED this woman in the 80s.....with....a.....passion....
What unsettling views on women did he have?
Why is there such pushback from players against a DM creating their own worlds?
Am I not getting the "Matt Miller" joke?
What part of it don't you get?
4:12 : Talks about treating artists like shit. Also uses loads and loads of uncredited art in a way that's not fair use across the entire video.
Keeps complaining about someone being "transphob", then calls someone gay as an insult
16:58 "reactionary"
Cult language i see.
I mentioned this before on one of the previous videos, but here it is again:
I like the distinction you made between Gygax Sr. & Gygax Jr. in regards to their reactionary views. With Ernest, his casual sexism was brought up once in an offhanded comment and then never again, whereas with Ernie, you constantly drag him for his transphobia & other-such scumbaggery.
Really paints a difference in the severity of their bigotry: like Ernest just being an introverted, nerdy white guy whose shittier beliefs were never challenged, as opposed to his son actively being an asshole when everyone around his is telling him to stop for the sake of it.
Don’t do a warhammer video… I think that company makes enough money of selling there over priced miniatures they don’t need your free advertising
Neither do WotC, dude.
who are the solless one??
So Lorraine was Kathleen Kennedy before Kathleen Kennedy ... gotcha.
Not fully sure I understand why everyone hates her. Without her we would have E.T or Temple of Doom.
@@TheSmart-CasualGamer That's revisionist nonsense to make it seem like she actually contributed anything of value and didn't just have her name posted on those projects just for bringing coffee for Spielberg. Even if by some chance she was actually crucial to those movies, the good will she garnered has long since been absolutely destroyed by her own hands, so it's not something they can fall back on as a defense anymore.
Ernie Gygax isnt transphobe. Journos just made that shit up because he said he wanted the game to cater more to the veteran player and not bend the knee to a group that doesn't even play the game or buy any of the products.
I really don't get all the shade you throw Ernie, he seems like a good guy.
Pretty good video until you started throwing accusations at people without providing evidence of your claims. Benifit of the doubt? Innocent until proven guilty? Why value that? Guess that also mean the value of historical accuracy in your video is just... not good enough.