The Euston applications are all bidding for the same slots in the timetable. It won't be possible for more than one of them to run without a significant change to the timetable, which cant happen before HS2 phase 1 opens.
The Euston to Preston train could be combined with the Glasgow one, just have it be two train sets that separate/join at Preston. They would have to figured out Bolton, Golbourne or both (not familiar enough with that area to know if that’s possible, or they are on separate routes.)
@@joermnyc Adding that many stops, and in particular going via Manchester, would mean at least 5 hours to Glasgow. Existing trains do it in 4h30. (Admittedly some do it in 6, but there are more Lon-Bham and Bham-north passengers, and Virgin are focusing on the London market.)
The irony is that when Virgin operated the WC franchise, they pretty much eliminated all the Motherwell stops as they were so focused on a sub 4hr journey. Avanti have reinstated nearly every Motherwell stop, and along with TPE adding Motherwell means an almost hourly service south.
They will also get a percentage of all the “Any Permitted Route” tickets sold over the routes they’ll be operating. For something like London to Edinburgh that’s a lot of money they’ll get for passengers that are travelling on other providers’ services.
Very exciting and well explained Geoff. Another one that may start quite soon is Go-op, who will go through my local area and hopefully start December this year between Swindon and Taunton using Class 153s!
I really hope Lumo will bring a direct route from Rochdale to London as it is not really easy to travel from Rochdale to London without having to take the tram or train without changing every time
Lumo expanding from five-car to ten-car trains would be so useful. Every Lumo train I've been on has been absolutely packed, rightfully so given their cheaper fares *and* no First Class for peak capacity. New trains and services are always welcome, and the Grand Union Euston-Stirling service sounds like an epic journey! And the Alliance Rail proposal sounds really exciting too! It'd be great to have more cross-country orientated services, to not just compete with CrossCountry but improve services and connections elsewhere in the country without having to go via London to get anywhere. Connecting North Wales, Northern England and Scotland together would be so useful.
Very informative video Geoff, I saw that most of the new access operators are due to start in 2025 which is next year already, wow, definitely going to keep an eye out for those being rolled out next year, I'm very excited to see all of these 😀
Fantastic video very informative I travelled a lot between Yorkshire and London Kings Cross I always travel with Hull Trains. There started running a bus service from Goole to Howden which connects with the Hull Trains Service
Used to regularly travel between Worksop and Sheffield/Retford and I see problems. Firstly Nunnery Mainline junction is a bottleneck and services into Sheffield were held for ages there. Using the old goods platform (that has track) into a bay platform at Woodhouse (and allowing through ticketing on the 52a bus from Attercliffe, Darnall and Handsworth) might be a better option. Secondly access from Worksop onto the line to Kings Cross is into P2 (the down platform) and would have to cross the busy down fast line upon leaving Retford. There is also the annoying squeal on the sharp approach curve. I didn't mind changing at Retford as this gave me a chance leave the station to visit the nearby convenience store.
This is a way that ticket prices are brought down. I once saved a large amount of money by going Grand Central to Sunderland and then onwards to Newcastle on the Metro. It was longer but the saving was worth it.
Nostalgia for Virgin trains, as we rode the “Mail route” up to Holyhead for the ferry connection over to Dublin. It was a lovely Pendolino, the crew were excellent and we learned how to properly pronounce the names of the stops in northern Wales. (Just don’t quiz us now, it was 10 years ago! 😂)
An alternative to the diabolical GWR service running through South Wales? Consider me intrigued. The Cardiff to Edinburgh service sounds interesting too, but I fear that it'll be extremely expensive as it won't have any competition.
To be fair to GWR I've always had good experiences travelling with them between NWP and PAD.. with one exception, the eye watering ticket prices. I've driven to outer London, parked and tubed in last 5-6 years because its just so much cheaper with two of us travelling. £20-30 in fuel vs 2 train tickets at £80-£90 each.. no contest. Looking forward to the competition.
Cardiff to Scotland cutting via midlands, pennine belt and Newcastle is certainly intereting. maybe able to add a stop in darlington once the station upgrade is done.
@@pistoldemonfan_ytSame here living in Gloucester. We need more trains going north rather than having to use Cheltenham as most Cross Country North - South trains won't go to Gloucester. And the Nottingham - Cardiff trains are horrible, and also seem to be the first to be cancelled on the frequent occasions that Cross Country are short of train crew.
3:15 I got excited because when they were originally only planning to run to Cardiff Central, they were going to use Class 91/Intercity 225s - the very first time a 91/IC225 would run on the GWML!
As a disabled person who relies on trains I wish there was an open access train option available from somewhere in Devon. Hopefully it would bring down the ridiculous prices of trains from Devon to anywhere in the country outside of the county
Fares from Exeter to Waterloo are pretty cheap if you can choose the time you travel. I have done Earlsfield to Exeter for £12, Exeter to Salisbury for £8 e/w. If you have to go GWR/XC then try splitting at Weston Super Mare or Bristol Parkway to get the best deals on advance tickets
as someone in buckinghamshire seeing more train connections coming and being planned in and around me is making me happy saves going far down the line to london to go back on yourself just to go north this will save like 40/60 minutes for me each way (and maybe even some money will have to see about that though)
WSMR cannot come soon enough. I made extensive use of the Wrexham And Shropshire service back in the day between London and Shrewsbury to visit my parents. Sorely needs a regular direct train again. That did have the plus point of running out of the lovely Maryelebone though, so a shame this one will be out of Euston. Though perhaps that means it'll be busier and actually last.
Look forward to seeing and travelling on these services. I'd also say The Jacobite from Fort William to Mallaig falls into this category as an open access service running daily for a large part of the year. The difference being is its a tourist attraction rather than a commuter service.
Hello Geoff, great video and very interesting. I thought of a new series you could do maybe something about every British station with just one platform. For example Finstock and Swale. Thank you for reading.
Great work. Most of these I did know about already though, I guys im a huge nerd haha! Open access operators are great, though I doubt the majority of these services will actually start
I thought the WCML south of Birmingham was full, wasn't this was one of the reasons for building HS2? How are they going to accommodate all those extra services?
Yes, that's why the old Wrexham and Shropshire operated out of Marylebone. I used that service on several occasions but ultimately it was stymied by Virgin Trains' anti-competition rules which didn't all it to stop at Birmingham at all or at Wolverhampton or Telford in one direction or the other.
It's often argued that the WCML is not only full now but will continue to be so in places even with HS2 Phase 1 open, due to the cancellation of Phase 2. These extra operators would gum up the works even more in times of disruption
Simple. They aren't. It's just more traffic on the network. Once HS2 (the bit they're actually building) is done it should help some of the services, but the wider network is still chock full.
There was also the very close introduction of Grand Central running open access service between London Euston and Blackpool North, however the Pandemic stopped that from happening 😔
WSMR could also stop at the new Willenhall and Darlaston stations then Bescot Stadium up to Walsall or they plan to serve Darlaston and Bescot. As a competition to WMR's Birmingham/Walsall to Shrewsbury Via Willenhall service
Nice video! I knew about some of the new Open access operators like Grand Union but I didn't realise Virgin trains would be coming back!? Would be interesting to see what fleet they will have now that the pendolinos are with Avanti
@@rugbycentralofficial I doubt they would convert the voyagers to electric or hydrogen. Virgin will probably want the newest - maybe 805s/807s or 810s? but then again a tilting train would be more ideal for virgin if they're wanting to do London to Glasgow services again.
It’s great to see lots of new connections that can get made in the next few years but I can’t help but notice the amount coming to Euston. Euston is already at its capacity and with many new service and HS2 (maybe) coming surely the station won’t be able to cope
I do like the idea of having more open access franchise that can deliver better train services in the UK. As HS2 Phase 2 to Manchester and Leeds is cancelled. Would be nice to see more rail operators in the UK. You also had Harrogate Trains, London Crosslink, Central Trains and CrossCountry that is still going.
I’m fairly certain that Lumo are planning to go to Glasgow Central as Queen Street is very constrained for capacity and as XC have pretty much abandoned Glasgow there are unused InterCity paths into GLC.
Geoff your video on open access operators there are no paths available on the east coast main line and the west coast main line as they are running at capacity and these operators are not able to even start planning at the moment
I'm particularly looking forward to Alliance Rail's Edinburgh to Cardiff service. Living in Sheffield, train fares down to South Wales and up to Edinburgh are extortionate. Competition with CrossCountry and extra capacity is desperately needed. The Sheffield to Kings Cross service will be a nice addition too as I hate St Pancras station with a passion.
As a worksopian, looking forwards to the potential Sheffield to kings cross service too. The northern trains between Worksop and Sheffield take forever as they stop everywhere - including south Yorkshires least used station of Darnall! What should be a 15-20 minute hop between worksop and sheffield takes 40 minutes. Indeed, we used to have express services which were much faster...
@@jameshodgetts7541 Indeed. That's one benefit open access firms can offer in that they serve towns/cities nowadays overlooked by the TOCs. Let's hope ORR gives Hull Trains the green light for this service.
I'm guessing that for most of these services, additional trains from the Hitachi 80x family would be ordered (EDIT: may as well be CAF Civities akin to LNER's recent order) Possibly also used could be 67+Mk4+DVT, 180 or 22x (though I want to express my condolences to the passengers for the latter)
I'm actually so excited for these as a brummie trainspotter (Especially Virgin) besides literally all of these run through the West Midlands (if you exclude Hull Trains)
You spelt Stevenage Incorrectly when you displayed Lumo. Something about Lumo is that I never really expected them to run from Euston. When you think of Open-Access operators, you think of the East Coast. Now I live near Harrow and Wealdstone and I'm going to see a lot more trains on Platforms 3 and 4. I think either Avanti or London Northwestern might have to cut down on their services. *CrossCountry's head of board when he hears about Alliance Rail for the frst time. * A very eerie hissing noise. Great Western Railway think they're safe when no one announces any more open access operators until grand Union decides on another route. *Me when Virgin Trains is returning.* "Oh no. I hope they don't cause another Garyrigg derailment!"
What are your thoughts on the rail system we have in other countries, like the Netherlands, where you can buy a ticket for a destination (or just check in) instead of for a train? We never have to worry about which provider services which station and can change trains freely. I know it isn't good for competition, but I also don't see how competition on rails (which are pretty fixed) really works.
could do with a service to connect newcastle with Manchester/Stockport I can't get to events in newcastle. quicker to get to london than newcastle, travelling at inconvenient times and changing lots
Thanks for the explanation - and I know this benefits passengers in several ways, but to me it sounds like it could potentially make rail more complicated for those who aren't rail enthusiasts. I wonder how that is being addressed.
As a worksopian, looking forwards to the potential Sheffield to kings cross service too. The northern trains between Worksop and Sheffield take forever as they stop everywhere - including south Yorkshires least used station of Darnall! What should be a 15-20 minute hop between worksop and sheffield takes 40 minutes. Although i'm half betting they'll do something silly like make it a drop off only stop going north so it doesn't pull too many people off of the Northern service - 95% of the people catching that train is between worksop and sheffield, or make it extortionately expensive so you get the Northern train anyway.
@@benjaminwinchester3408 There is already a cheaper alternative offered by West Midlands Trains. Enter London Euston (this is important) in the destination field on BR Fares. CTRL+F and type LNR AND XC ONLY for a quick way of finding them.
Could do with some more operators on the midland mainline currently dominated by EMR and prices are just too high. And maybe some more services between Peterborough to new street via Leicester as cross country operate a poor service currently.
I hope the WSMR offers faster access to London from Wolverhampton and Walsall. The current route via Birmingham is too slow, taking up a quarter of the journey time, especially if you have to change/wait.
Interesting, however it makes all more complicated for travelers. They all will have their own booking and fairs system. But it is the future of railways. I see Arriva amongst them. Arriva runs branche line train here in the Netherlands, and bus lines. Arriva used to be owned by DB, Deutsche Bahn, German railways, but are about to be sold to an USA financial company... I am not sure whether this deal is completed now, since on the Arriva trains currently running here it still says: "A DB company"...
It would be good if someone could run Huddersfield to london (via Stalybridge?) or another train from Crewe northward up the WCML (only one per hour Crewe- Warrington at present). What about Cardiff- Glasgow via Shrewsbury?
@@damianc.0.681 I suppose prior to Covid when they stopped at Ashford and Ebbsfleet they offered competition. Now, I think you have to class them as open access as the the UK govt sold its stake in 2015 and are owned by SNCF, effectively not the government of the UK (but French) if that makes sense.
I have used Hull Trains for years, they are so good and you get such a personalised service from them. Their first class is best in the country. Geoff have you traveled on them at all?
Yes. Since moving to Cardiff, I've often wondered why there are absolutely zero trains running between Wales and Scotland even though XC run services in both?
For some reason, I would like to see Flixtrain in the mix of Britain's railways, but I guess it's a good thing they focus on their home market here in Germany, even ever expanding. However, OAO's may need to be viewed critically. For example, for how long and how often have Grand Union announced and cancelled and re-announced their entry? I remember having heard of them in several of Nodrog's Rail Roundups, mostly 2-4 or so years ago. And what is up with Virgin anyway?? Also, in Gareth Dennis' ideal system of new Bitish Rail, OAO's wouldn't actually exist. Or at least they wouldn't run connections (or pathways) that are actually vital ones for the public and should therefore be run by the publicly organised (and also run) Railway Operator. -- Maybe you could do a little video with Gareth on that, Geoff (if he currently finds time).
If ... anyone can find a good link for more information for the planned Virgin train services, please post it here! ( thanks )
wait they’re back? exiting!
Hey Geoff!!!
@@THlMGSwell technically yes but they will be running a different name and livery
@@user-iu8jx2qb7bi see, still will be nice to see them back up and running!
Euston - Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester - Scotland
The Euston applications are all bidding for the same slots in the timetable. It won't be possible for more than one of them to run without a significant change to the timetable, which cant happen before HS2 phase 1 opens.
The Euston to Preston train could be combined with the Glasgow one, just have it be two train sets that separate/join at Preston. They would have to figured out Bolton, Golbourne or both (not familiar enough with that area to know if that’s possible, or they are on separate routes.)
@@joermnyc Adding that many stops, and in particular going via Manchester, would mean at least 5 hours to Glasgow. Existing trains do it in 4h30.
(Admittedly some do it in 6, but there are more Lon-Bham and Bham-north passengers, and Virgin are focusing on the London market.)
I'm fed up with having about 6 minutes to run to the train at Euston. There must be a better way of organising things.
That virgin one looks good, especially if they cut the journey time between Motherwell and London by moving Motherwell 60 miles south 👀
The irony with the Virgin one is that they actively prevented Open access operators during their time running the West Coast Main Line franchise.
Yes, I think Geoff's map has Lockerbie and Motherwell the wrong way round!
Folding space time is an efficient way to travel and to be honest I'm surprised it's not done more often.
No mate, it's a tourism thing, they're going to move Lockerbie closer to Glasgow - they've got the plane ready to go
The irony is that when Virgin operated the WC franchise, they pretty much eliminated all the Motherwell stops as they were so focused on a sub 4hr journey.
Avanti have reinstated nearly every Motherwell stop, and along with TPE adding Motherwell means an almost hourly service south.
They will also get a percentage of all the “Any Permitted Route” tickets sold over the routes they’ll be operating. For something like London to Edinburgh that’s a lot of money they’ll get for passengers that are travelling on other providers’ services.
Wouldn't that percentages be based on occasional passenger counts?
Very exciting and well explained Geoff. Another one that may start quite soon is Go-op, who will go through my local area and hopefully start December this year between Swindon and Taunton using Class 153s!
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
slight typo on the map at 1:46 , ah yes, “stevange” great video as always Geoff!
I really hope Lumo will bring a direct route from Rochdale to London as it is not really easy to travel from Rochdale to London without having to take the tram or train without changing every time
Lumo expanding from five-car to ten-car trains would be so useful. Every Lumo train I've been on has been absolutely packed, rightfully so given their cheaper fares *and* no First Class for peak capacity. New trains and services are always welcome, and the Grand Union Euston-Stirling service sounds like an epic journey! And the Alliance Rail proposal sounds really exciting too! It'd be great to have more cross-country orientated services, to not just compete with CrossCountry but improve services and connections elsewhere in the country without having to go via London to get anywhere. Connecting North Wales, Northern England and Scotland together would be so useful.
Lumo only has a limited number of trains. Needs to enlarge its fleet.
thanks for the breakdown, Geoff, very helpful :)
Great video Geoff, thanks for sharing the information. I’m definitely going to be very exited about the new Cardiff to Edinburgh line
Very informative video Geoff, I saw that most of the new access operators are due to start in 2025 which is next year already, wow, definitely going to keep an eye out for those being rolled out next year, I'm very excited to see all of these 😀
Fantastic video Geoff! Very informative 😀
Thank you, great bit of information
Thank you for sharing the video Geoff that is very interesting information. 💖
as a west coaster i cant wait for avanti to have real competition
And with the aim of going into Man Vic which is so much more convenient for the businesses I am usually visiting on that side of the city
Grand Union, fact it's stopping at my station Larbert and even Stirling is super interesting and exciting - nice to see more options.
very informative, didnt know about a couple of them!
Oooh! Very exciting!!
Fantastic video very informative I travelled a lot between Yorkshire and London Kings Cross I always travel with Hull Trains. There started running a bus service from Goole to Howden which connects with the Hull Trains Service
Used to regularly travel between Worksop and Sheffield/Retford and I see problems. Firstly Nunnery Mainline junction is a bottleneck and services into Sheffield were held for ages there. Using the old goods platform (that has track) into a bay platform at Woodhouse (and allowing through ticketing on the 52a bus from Attercliffe, Darnall and Handsworth) might be a better option. Secondly access from Worksop onto the line to Kings Cross is into P2 (the down platform) and would have to cross the busy down fast line upon leaving Retford. There is also the annoying squeal on the sharp approach curve. I didn't mind changing at Retford as this gave me a chance leave the station to visit the nearby convenience store.
That's strange considering Goole and Howden are nearly joined together anyway
There was a service that runs in to Howden Town but northing going to Howden station until the Hopper started running
Very informative Geoff.
This is a way that ticket prices are brought down. I once saved a large amount of money by going Grand Central to Sunderland and then onwards to Newcastle on the Metro. It was longer but the saving was worth it.
DJ school b CV b B vmhh h my
The WSMR route would mean the return of passenger trains to the sutton park line, which has been freight only for many years.
Thanks Geoff 👍
thanks for that news. A lot I did not know about.
Nostalgia for Virgin trains, as we rode the “Mail route” up to Holyhead for the ferry connection over to Dublin. It was a lovely Pendolino, the crew were excellent and we learned how to properly pronounce the names of the stops in northern Wales. (Just don’t quiz us now, it was 10 years ago! 😂)
An alternative to the diabolical GWR service running through South Wales? Consider me intrigued.
The Cardiff to Edinburgh service sounds interesting too, but I fear that it'll be extremely expensive as it won't have any competition.
The alternative via Bristol Parkway to Paddington would be interesting. If it's less than £90 off peak return, that'll be groundbreaking.
The Cardiff to Edinburgh will compete with GWR and Crosscountry I believe.
To be fair to GWR I've always had good experiences travelling with them between NWP and PAD.. with one exception, the eye watering ticket prices. I've driven to outer London, parked and tubed in last 5-6 years because its just so much cheaper with two of us travelling. £20-30 in fuel vs 2 train tickets at £80-£90 each.. no contest. Looking forward to the competition.
Am all for direct service ftom Edinburgh to Wales
This will be nice upgrade to overcrowded, current class 17x 2/3 cars trains runs from Nottingham/Derby to Cardiff.
There is one a day cross country service
As someone from Wales, maybe getting to Birmingham won't just be on absolutely rammed 170s anymore so I'm for it
Cardiff to Scotland cutting via midlands, pennine belt and Newcastle is certainly intereting.
maybe able to add a stop in darlington once the station upgrade is done.
@@pistoldemonfan_ytSame here living in Gloucester. We need more trains going north rather than having to use Cheltenham as most Cross Country North - South trains won't go to Gloucester. And the Nottingham - Cardiff trains are horrible, and also seem to be the first to be cancelled on the frequent occasions that Cross Country are short of train crew.
Nice explainer, Geoff
3:15 I got excited because when they were originally only planning to run to Cardiff Central, they were going to use Class 91/Intercity 225s - the very first time a 91/IC225 would run on the GWML!
As a disabled person who relies on trains I wish there was an open access train option available from somewhere in Devon. Hopefully it would bring down the ridiculous prices of trains from Devon to anywhere in the country outside of the county
Fares from Exeter to Waterloo are pretty cheap if you can choose the time you travel. I have done Earlsfield to Exeter for £12, Exeter to Salisbury for £8 e/w. If you have to go GWR/XC then try splitting at Weston Super Mare or Bristol Parkway to get the best deals on advance tickets
Thank you Geoff
Stevange could be a French village, or a fencing term.
Or an 80s electro pop artist 😉
Well, maybe a Belgian or Luxembourgish village...😅
At least a Luxembougish village
Or a town in West Norway (Stevanger)
Famous for being the birthplace of Lewis Hamilton, although whether he’ll be driving the trains is an open question
Great video Geoff, we could do with another couple of operators on the Cumbrian coast line, it might make Northern get their act together.
as someone in buckinghamshire seeing more train connections coming and being planned in and around me is making me happy saves
going far down the line to london to go back on yourself just to go north this will save like 40/60 minutes for me each way
(and maybe even some money will have to see about that though)
WSMR cannot come soon enough. I made extensive use of the Wrexham And Shropshire service back in the day between London and Shrewsbury to visit my parents. Sorely needs a regular direct train again. That did have the plus point of running out of the lovely Maryelebone though, so a shame this one will be out of Euston. Though perhaps that means it'll be busier and actually last.
Look forward to seeing and travelling on these services. I'd also say The Jacobite from Fort William to Mallaig falls into this category as an open access service running daily for a large part of the year. The difference being is its a tourist attraction rather than a commuter service.
Woooo Hull Trains getting some recognition!
Very exciting news!
I wish germany would have more competition on long distance rail other than jsut the DB and Flixtrain.
1:41 Stevange
Hello Geoff, great video and very interesting.
I thought of a new series you could do maybe something about every British station with just one platform. For example Finstock and Swale.
Thank you for reading.
Great work. Most of these I did know about already though, I guys im a huge nerd haha!
Open access operators are great, though I doubt the majority of these services will actually start
I thought the WCML south of Birmingham was full, wasn't this was one of the reasons for building HS2? How are they going to accommodate all those extra services?
My thoughts exactly.
Yes, that's why the old Wrexham and Shropshire operated out of Marylebone. I used that service on several occasions but ultimately it was stymied by Virgin Trains' anti-competition rules which didn't all it to stop at Birmingham at all or at Wolverhampton or Telford in one direction or the other.
It's often argued that the WCML is not only full now but will continue to be so in places even with HS2 Phase 1 open, due to the cancellation of Phase 2. These extra operators would gum up the works even more in times of disruption
Not sure about Virgin trains but for WSMR it will replace the Old Avanti London- Shrewsbury service.
Simple. They aren't. It's just more traffic on the network. Once HS2 (the bit they're actually building) is done it should help some of the services, but the wider network is still chock full.
There was also the very close introduction of Grand Central running open access service between London Euston and Blackpool North, however the Pandemic stopped that from happening 😔
That was informative
WSMR could also stop at the new Willenhall and Darlaston stations then Bescot Stadium up to Walsall or they plan to serve Darlaston and Bescot. As a competition to WMR's Birmingham/Walsall to Shrewsbury Via Willenhall service
Nice video! I knew about some of the new Open access operators like Grand Union but I didn't realise Virgin trains would be coming back!? Would be interesting to see what fleet they will have now that the pendolinos are with Avanti
Not all AWC voyagers are going to XC, there could be a possibility of a conversion to electric/hydrogen for Virgin there I feel...
@@rugbycentralofficial I doubt they would convert the voyagers to electric or hydrogen. Virgin will probably want the newest - maybe 805s/807s or 810s? but then again a tilting train would be more ideal for virgin if they're wanting to do London to Glasgow services again.
Wait this Is Very Exiting 🎉🎉🎉🎉
The Lumo one im sure it was Glasgow Central Not Queenstreet. It'll probably get the Lner Paths as Lner are stopping from December
It’s great to see lots of new connections that can get made in the next few years but I can’t help but notice the amount coming to Euston. Euston is already at its capacity and with many new service and HS2 (maybe) coming surely the station won’t be able to cope
I do like the idea of having more open access franchise that can deliver better train services in the UK. As HS2 Phase 2 to Manchester and Leeds is cancelled. Would be nice to see more rail operators in the UK. You also had Harrogate Trains, London Crosslink, Central Trains and CrossCountry that is still going.
Are open access operators the same as normal toc’s for passengers? As in can just jump any off peak with an anytime day ticket?
I wish there would be more competition against Great Western! I'll keep my fingers crossed for a Gloucester to London competitor at some point.
I'd be all for the Sheffield-LKX Services
I’m fairly certain that Lumo are planning to go to Glasgow Central as Queen Street is very constrained for capacity and as XC have pretty much abandoned Glasgow there are unused InterCity paths into GLC.
Geoff your video on open access operators there are no paths available on the east coast main line and the west coast main line as they are running at capacity and these operators are not able to even start planning at the moment
Hull Trains terminating at Beverley is the start of a possible extension up to Bridlington and eventually Scarborough.
Alliance Rail not calling at Cheltenham Spa or Worcestershire Parkway (2 busy stations)?
I'm particularly looking forward to Alliance Rail's Edinburgh to Cardiff service. Living in Sheffield, train fares down to South Wales and up to Edinburgh are extortionate. Competition with CrossCountry and extra capacity is desperately needed.
The Sheffield to Kings Cross service will be a nice addition too as I hate St Pancras station with a passion.
Indeed. EMR needs some competition.
Pretty sure HT's new Sheffield service will be faster than EMR's current one, albeit much less frequent
As a worksopian, looking forwards to the potential Sheffield to kings cross service too. The northern trains between Worksop and Sheffield take forever as they stop everywhere - including south Yorkshires least used station of Darnall! What should be a 15-20 minute hop between worksop and sheffield takes 40 minutes. Indeed, we used to have express services which were much faster...
@@jameshodgetts7541 Indeed. That's one benefit open access firms can offer in that they serve towns/cities nowadays overlooked by the TOCs. Let's hope ORR gives Hull Trains the green light for this service.
@@jameshodgetts7541 WHY NOT WSOP RETFORD THEN LNER TO KINGS X
I'm guessing that for most of these services, additional trains from the Hitachi 80x family would be ordered
(EDIT: may as well be CAF Civities akin to LNER's recent order)
Possibly also used could be 67+Mk4+DVT, 180 or 22x (though I want to express my condolences to the passengers for the latter)
Yay new Geoff vid
I think Motherwell and Lockerbie are the wrong way round on the Virgin graphic? Great Video as always.
I'm actually so excited for these as a brummie trainspotter (Especially Virgin) besides literally all of these run through the West Midlands (if you exclude Hull Trains)
You spelt Stevenage Incorrectly when you displayed Lumo. Something about Lumo is that I never really expected them to run from Euston. When you think of Open-Access operators, you think of the East Coast.
Now I live near Harrow and Wealdstone and I'm going to see a lot more trains on Platforms 3 and 4. I think either Avanti or London Northwestern might have to cut down on their services.
*CrossCountry's head of board when he hears about Alliance Rail for the frst time. *
A very eerie hissing noise.
Great Western Railway think they're safe when no one announces any more open access operators until grand Union decides on another route.
*Me when Virgin Trains is returning.*
"Oh no. I hope they don't cause another Garyrigg derailment!"
Great to see Avanti getting the Virgin competition it deserves. Other new operators options look excellent too.
What are your thoughts on the rail system we have in other countries, like the Netherlands, where you can buy a ticket for a destination (or just check in) instead of for a train? We never have to worry about which provider services which station and can change trains freely. I know it isn't good for competition, but I also don't see how competition on rails (which are pretty fixed) really works.
could do with a service to connect newcastle with Manchester/Stockport
I can't get to events in newcastle.
quicker to get to london than newcastle, travelling at inconvenient times and changing lots
Thanks for the explanation - and I know this benefits passengers in several ways, but to me it sounds like it could potentially make rail more complicated for those who aren't rail enthusiasts. I wonder how that is being addressed.
Is there a station at Golborne?
Are there limits to where Open Access rail services can go to, for instance, why does none go Charing Cross?
I’m excited for Hull Trains to Worksop linking another Nottinghamshire town with the capital.
and to offer hopefully a cheaper alternative to the ridiculously priced EMR services to Sheffield
As a worksopian, looking forwards to the potential Sheffield to kings cross service too. The northern trains between Worksop and Sheffield take forever as they stop everywhere - including south Yorkshires least used station of Darnall! What should be a 15-20 minute hop between worksop and sheffield takes 40 minutes.
Although i'm half betting they'll do something silly like make it a drop off only stop going north so it doesn't pull too many people off of the Northern service - 95% of the people catching that train is between worksop and sheffield, or make it extortionately expensive so you get the Northern train anyway.
@@benjaminwinchester3408 There is already a cheaper alternative offered by West Midlands Trains. Enter London Euston (this is important) in the destination field on BR Fares. CTRL+F and type LNR AND XC ONLY for a quick way of finding them.
Low Moor mentioned!!!
The important question, not covered, is ticketing. How it works, what it costs etc
Worksop railway station turns 175 on 18th July will you might be there ?
How does this fit in with the labour proposals to bring ownership back to the state?
Could do with some more operators on the midland mainline currently dominated by EMR and prices are just too high. And maybe some more services between Peterborough to new street via Leicester as cross country operate a poor service currently.
I miss the jaunty music you used to use. Any possible chance it’ll come back?
1:26 i heard virgin trains could come back, you did mention this at 4:15
These sound excellent to me. But… is there capacity? Especially up the WCML?
I hope the WSMR offers faster access to London from Wolverhampton and Walsall. The current route via Birmingham is too slow, taking up a quarter of the journey time, especially if you have to change/wait.
Edinburgh and Newcastle to Wales is good to see.
What trains will Grand Union use & what trains will Wrexham Shropshire Midlands Railway use?
Interesting, however it makes all more complicated for travelers. They all will have their own booking and fairs system. But it is the future of railways. I see Arriva amongst them. Arriva runs branche line train here in the Netherlands, and bus lines. Arriva used to be owned by DB, Deutsche Bahn, German railways, but are about to be sold to an USA financial company... I am not sure whether this deal is completed now, since on the Arriva trains currently running here it still says: "A DB company"...
Wonder if would run trains from Glasgow central to London kings cross
Very informative. Except Grand Central don't stop at Peterborough on their Sunderland services, only non-stop from York to the Cross.
yeah also hartlepool has it's old southbound platform back.
One train per day per direction does (not Sundays) though this was only started this year.
It would be good if someone could run Huddersfield to london (via Stalybridge?) or another train from Crewe northward up the WCML (only one per hour Crewe- Warrington at present). What about Cardiff- Glasgow via Shrewsbury?
Euston's really busy already how will it cope the the 4 new operators?
Is Huddersfield now the largest town in England without a dirdct service to London?
Given they pay the same per mile, do they pay for stations?
We need some circle lines. Everything at the moments seems to be North and South.
I was there myself just this morning
Aren’t Eurostar and Heathrow Express technically Open access operators too?
Technically yes and technically no but lets say yes
Well technically no Eurostar as Eurostar doesn’t call at anywhere that the SE javelins do. but Heathrow express maybe
@@damianc.0.681 I suppose prior to Covid when they stopped at Ashford and Ebbsfleet they offered competition. Now, I think you have to class them as open access as the the UK govt sold its stake in 2015 and are owned by SNCF, effectively not the government of the UK (but French) if that makes sense.
@@jfenemer yeah true.
That is what I thought as well.
I have used Hull Trains for years, they are so good and you get such a personalised service from them. Their first class is best in the country. Geoff have you traveled on them at all?
A direct Cardiff to Edinburgh service would be interesting to travel on
Yes. Since moving to Cardiff, I've often wondered why there are absolutely zero trains running between Wales and Scotland even though XC run services in both?
cardiff-edinburgh has been done with a portion to glasgow splitting at carstairs
Did you know there is a ok ish chance of virgin trains running from London St Pancras to France via ashford
Geoff, re the possible new Virgin route from Glasgow, shouldn't Motherwell come first out of Glasgow then followed by Lockerbie?
So Virgin have suddenly found that there's spare line capacity to run to Birmingham and Manchester (already served, what is it, three times an hour)?
Aren’t LNER looking at running a line from londons King’s Cross to Cleethorpes
I do think it's a good idea, provided all the TOCs have robust training programmes for their staff, and safety standards for vehicles are maintained.
For some reason, I would like to see Flixtrain in the mix of Britain's railways, but I guess it's a good thing they focus on their home market here in Germany, even ever expanding.
However, OAO's may need to be viewed critically. For example, for how long and how often have Grand Union announced and cancelled and re-announced their entry? I remember having heard of them in several of Nodrog's Rail Roundups, mostly 2-4 or so years ago. And what is up with Virgin anyway?? Also, in Gareth Dennis' ideal system of new Bitish Rail, OAO's wouldn't actually exist. Or at least they wouldn't run connections (or pathways) that are actually vital ones for the public and should therefore be run by the publicly organised (and also run) Railway Operator. -- Maybe you could do a little video with Gareth on that, Geoff (if he currently finds time).