Can Today's Pedals NAIL 1980's Rack Tones?
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Great guitar tones were ubiquitous in the 1980's, especially in Pop Music. However, the 80's tones that we know and love were generated in GIANT refrigerator rack systems that are almost extinct today.
In this video, I'm re-creating 1980's Rack tones with my 17" x 10" Wet/Dry/Wet pedalboard. If you want to learn more about Wet/Dry/Wet racks and pedalboards, check out the videos linked below!
Understanding Wet/Dry/Wet Signal Path:
• Advanced Guitar Signal...
Wet/Dry/Wet EXPLAINED:
• Evolution of Wet/Dry/W...
The Easiest Wet/Dry/Wet Rig:
• Run Wet/Dry/Wet with O...
Table of Contents
00:00 Introduction
01:25 My WDW Signal Path
03:41 Our Goal
04:25 Dry Tone
04:55 Clean Compressed Tone
07:14 Compressed Tri-Stereo Chorus Tone
08:45 Stereo Delay Tone
11:14 Where's the DIRT?
12:08 Medium-Gain Tone
14:08 High-Gain Tone
17:21 MAX Gain Lead Tone
17:51 Bonus 80s Tones!
21:54 Final Thoughts/Conclusion
Gear Used in this Video:
RJM PBC6X - bit.ly/3ykau1n
RAF Mirage Compressor - bit.ly/3krMunY
TS Mini - amzn.to/38bdnXN
Suhr Riot - reverb.com/p/suhr-riot-mini
Custom Audio Japan Twin Tremolo - bit.ly/2WqyUJr
The Lilwave Chorus - www.redseven-amplification.co...
Boss FV-300L - www.boss.info/us/products/fv-...
Suhr Line-Out Box - bit.ly/3gxCR6l
Source Audio Collider - amzn.to/3ygRJMl
GFI Cabzeus - bit.ly/3jelitG
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⬇PODCAST⬇
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#WetDryWet #GuitarPedals #GuitarRacks - Hudba
What was your favorite 1980's tone in this video? Let us know in the comments below!
Table of Contents
00:00 Introduction
01:25 My WDW Signal Path
03:41 Our Goal
04:25 Dry Tone
04:55 Clean Compressed Tone
07:14 Compressed Tri-Stereo Chorus Tone
08:45 Stereo Delay Tone
11:14 Where's the DIRT?
12:08 Medium-Gain Tone
14:08 High-Gain Tone
17:21 MAX Gain Lead Tone
17:51 Bonus 80s Tones!
21:54 Final Thoughts/Conclusion
Enjoyed them all. But, being an Aussie (and we do tend to shamelessly claim NZ bands as our own...lol), loved when you started playing what I thought was Crowded House's 'Don't Dream it's Over' - loved it.
@@adamf1347 Yes!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc the greatest NZ band IMO 👍
@@adamf1347 they did form in Melbourne! So you can have that lol
@@benjaminwoodrowmusic6070 😂😂😊
ive never felt so much like someone made a video specifically for me. love this!
So glad you dig it!
This is my shit.
Wish we had you as our demonstrator 😂
@@VertexEffectsInc I was just watching RJ's demo of the Rockman, wondering, I wonder if I could get close with my pedals and an eq. Thanks Rig Doctor!
@@onewiththings sure thing!
18:57 that Landau Univibe tone was spot on
🙏🙏🙏
Wow Mason!! Those tones and tunes were outrageous!! Oh God, I thank You for this video!!! GREAT job, Mason!
Glad you enjoyed it!
You are too modest about your chops! Dont give yourself enough credit. You played every riff I grew up on thru the 80's, lol! Nice how you use the thumb over!
Thanks Jay! Thumb over as GOD intended ;)
By far one of your best videos. I do love the 80/90z tones.
Awww...thanks Troy!
Fantastic video Mason! Thank you. Mordi
Thanks Mordi!!!!
Great stuff Doc! The classic compressed clean tones are my favourite these days you done them great, as everything else too!
Heck yea!!!! Thanks for watching!!!
I bought my first electric guitar rig in 1991. I had an ADA Microtube 100 power amp, split stereo, so 50 watts per channel. I had a Rocktron mAXE for distortion, and an ART DR-X for multi effects, running into 2 ADA half stack cabinets, each loaded with 2 50 watt Celestions. In the early 2000s I still had the same rig. I found a couple of guys online to jam with, loaded the whole rig into my car, and showed up with my 4 unit rack and my two cabinets that were the equivalent of a 4X12. I didn’t get the memo that rack rigs were out. As the two guys helped me haul the whole rig downstairs into the drummer’s basement the bass player said, “This is ridiculous”. I’m sure those guys thought I was an idiot. They didn’t invite me back for another jam session, lol.
Those were the days!!!!
80's tones are da best!!
Classic!
As soon as you engaged the partical collider with the chorus I was instantly taken back to that era.
Hey now; hey now!
Awesome sounds! Sweet cleans! Excellent EVH sound! Superlatives are appropriate; it’s the best of both worlds - rack OR pedals.
Thanks for watching Jacob!
Absolutely loved this! Thank you so much!
🙏🙏🙏
This video was fantastic and your tones were mesmerizing. This is becoming a hell of a channel, my dude. The passion you put into your guitar playing and board building is highly inspiring and a joy to watch.
🙏🙏🙏 super appreciate that!
Awesome video and I’m loving the Anderson! 👌🏼
Thanks Steve! It's a good one!
Fantastic, man!
Thanks Camilo! You rock man!
That Anderton Strat sounds incredible. You nailed the 80's tones.
Love it man.., you are speaking to my generation! 80’s AOR tones still stand the test of time. That’s a fantastic chorus pedal as well; couldn’t afford a Dytronics during my rack days so before the Arion EWS days, I was getting chorus from an Ensoniq DP2 cuz of Paul Jackson Jr.
Thanks for bringing it back a few years. Good vibes!
Thanks so much for watching! I love chorus!!!
The Eventide Tricerachorus is great too! I have that and the Lil Wave also!
For true 80's goodness, you deed a Dimension C!
I promise you that for the classic tones the Tri Stereo Chorus was a much more widely used unit.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes, but in a pedal unit, it can't be beat. Especially for that Yes "Owner If a Lonely Heart" tone. Plus it was a staple for the Prince "Purple Rain" tone as well.
@@brettmarlar4154 it's good, no doubt - you should try the Red Seven. Closest to the Tri Stereo Chorus and all analog. Purple Rain was a Jazz Chorus/CE-1. I think Trevor Rabin used a CE-2 for Owner of a Lonely Heart and most of the Yes stuff. Way different sound.
@@VertexEffectsInc I think the closest to the real deal is the free the tone tri-avatar..
@@sarkisdelcourt2905 it's a good chorus (Tri Avatar), not as close as the Red Seven - it is the only analog version I've found.
I still run a small rack. I have a little 3 space technicians rack from an old Job. It has little rubber feet and sits perfectly on the top of a typical Marshall Tube style head. My company was moving to Mexico and they threw away a ton of Technical gear. I was able to get a bunch of cool electronics repair supplies and I even got a real Variac from the 50s. I have a RockTron Expression and a BBE 842 Sonic Maximizer in the rack. I just purchased a Digitech GSP 21 Legend because that was the processor I was running in the early 90s. I also run a Pedaltrain Pro with about 12 pedals on it with an ES-8 switcher. I've tried to delete the rack but something about the RockTron gear coupled with the BBE is a perfect finish before splitting to stereo into poweramps. I think it's the RockTron EQ and Compression that I just can't live without. The BBE is absolutely essential too. They're subtle but you miss them when they're gone. I use two 4x12s with two regular guitar heads. My 80s tone is the real deal. The rack is here to stay.
I bought a Collider after watching Mason's Wet/Dry/Wet vid and it is amazing. Running that plus my analog pedals and amps through my Helix as a switcher has put me in W/D/W heaven!
Great to hear! Glad you dig it!
Yes! Such a great idea
Thanks Bruce!!!
You are the Man!!!! Thanks!!!
Glad to help
Just had CZcams playing on random whilst messing with my board and this came on.... Absolutely blown away with that Suhr Riot, definitely going on my board! I'm a sucker for Van Halen I or II tones!
It’s a really great pedal
Great demo Sir👍🎸🤟
🙏🙏🙏 thank you so much for watching
Nice 80s tones here. I dig your playing, Mason. A Boss CE2 would have been a good choice as well for some serious 80s chorus action. I had a rack in the early 90s. Had an ADA preamp, BBE Sonic Maximizer, some solid state power supply and a cheap delay and reverb unit. I always wanted an Eventide Harmonizer. Super fun video! Brings back those 80s Rack God tones... 🤘🏻👍🏻
Thanks Tom! The CE-2 is great...it's a lot darker than a Tri Stereo Chorus or a 1210. Still cool but not quite as "hi-fi" and doesn't cut out a ton of bass like the TSC will. Yes! Bring back the 80's rack tones!
Great Job Man Thankyou ❤❤❤
Mason your the absolute OG! Playing "I don't care" by ML at 10:14 was amazing!!!
Ha! Thanks for noticing! Love that song!
After seeing the signal route diagram I had stop and pick up the brain matter that exploded out of my head on to the floor... TOO COMPLICATED! I really wish there were a non-complicated foot pedal that combined 80's smooth distortion, delay and chorus with that certain sparkle and tight mid and bass tone like I get from my rack units. The BOSS ME70 actually comes fairly close...
Where did you get lost? Maybe try watch our video called "Advanced Signal Paths" it might help.
New subscriber here and just wanted to say I'm really enjoying your videos.
But I do have to comment on your playing... ;-)
I find that your playing is very tasty indeed! You always manage to play the perfect piece to highlight the tones you're trying to demonstrate. And I also find that your playing is very inspiring. Really makes me want to try out these effects (or similar) and tones.
Thanks for the great videos, Mason. Bravo!
Thank you much for watching Adam! Thanks for your kind words - I do my best to curate sounds that I can pull off with my limited skill set that I think will serve the tonal reference appropriately! Looking forward to seeing your around on the channel!
I think rack gears are back now, though it's not as big as it used to be in the 80s-90s. Even ADA MP-1 now are ranging around 600-700 bucks on reverb, 20 years ago it used to be 100-200 bucks. Its amazing to see that racks are still appealing to people in the era of amp modeling.
Another great video, thanks Mason!
I think there is demand for older classic pieces of gear, but I don't see this trend in the industry for musicians in actual implementation, especially live. Thanks for watching!!!
Great video, great topic! 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾🔥One that’s caught my eye the past couple of years is that Roland SDD320 Dimension D✊🏾. I bought a DC 2W to “tame the urge” from buying a rack...to haul to a show.
Glad you dig it!
Your playing is fine
Your diction is great for us with hearing issues
Great video Mason! The Collider also allows you to run two delays or 2 reverbs as well as reverb and delay, making it even more useful. Next pedal I'm looking for to replace a Flashback and a AD9 Mini delay...
It's a great unit!
My rack refuses to die!!
They'll always be a place for them :)
Just wanted to say love watching your videos always learn a lot. I also like watching That Pedal Show too. You should go on their show I think it’ll cool and entertaining.
Thanks so much for watching! You should suggest it to them.
@@VertexEffectsInc you’re welcome, yes I also did they responded and asked what would like to talk about, I said it would be cool for them to check out your pedals and you would like to check out g3 and for fun I thought it would be cool if you Dan would challenge each other on a rig build friendly fun challenge and as well as educational and entertaining. Sorry for the long comment 😂.
@@jamesfafrak7288 I think it would be fun for us to build a rig for each other. Dan in his style, me in my style and compare and contrast the ways we do things and why. Gives the viewers ideas and options of different ways to approach their boards and how to build them.
@@VertexEffectsInc yes I agree and it would fun to have Mick and either Simon or Fraiser to play you and Dan’s rig to be fun and to see the players perspective as well. It would cool and educational as well.
Love the clean compressed chorus tones Mutt Lange got on Def Leppard Hysteria album. Love Bites.
For sure! Love those tones!
This was one of my favorite videos. Really like this era and great playing as well.
Have you heard of Soda Stereo from Argentina? They were big on this era and had this specific sound as well.
P.S. Might grab that Lil'Wave instead of a digital simulation.
The Clapton rack!!
🎸🎸🎸
Love the vid! 80's rack rigs were pretty interesting.
Would love to see a vid on how to incorporate a "hybrid" board with rack effects. I have an FX500, SPX90 and Midiverb and haven't figured out how to run them along with my actual pedalboard.
Perhaps in the future!
Dynacomp, boss Hr2 for detune, boss dc2, boss ce3, boss dd3, boss rv3. Mono or stereo the sound is gorgeous.
Thanks for watching!
Damn that Suhr Riot is a killer sounding pedal.
For sure...the Eclipse is actually closer to the 3+ but I didn't have room.
Let me at that board! 🔥🔥🔥
it's yours :)
Free plug... I've been doing a similar 2 drive set up with a J Rockett Archer and the Vertex Dynamic Distortion. It nails (At least I think it nails) the 80s Huffaker tone 👍
Very cool!
Does this compact rig have spillover from preset to preset? That was always one of the most frustrating parts to my midi pedalboards…. I had great sounding presets with my pedals, but my delay and reverb would always cut out when switching presets.
Since there's a lot of rig talk, I'll share my chain:
Source Audio Zio > ADA MP-1 > stereo outs to 2 DBX 160A > DBX 1 > Fulltone TERC, DBX 2 > Mixer, TERC OUT 1> TC2290, TERC OUT 2> Yamaha SPX 90. Stereo Outs of 2290 go into mixer, Stereo Outs of SPX 90 go to Mixer. Now there's 3 channels: 1 has TERC>2290 stereo delay. 2 has TERC>SPX 90 stereo detune. (if you bypass the delay you get the TERC in parallel and series with detune) 3. Is Compressed dry signal that can sit quietly in the center. The Mixer Main Stereo Outs with the 3 mixed channels then go to a Lexicon PCM 81 for the final touch, concert hall reverb. The balanced stereo signal goes into a UAD interface. One thing I want to try now that I have 2 SPX 90s, is to run each TERC out into an SPX, each with slightly different pitches and see how crazy that sounds. I imagine some tweaking will be in order to make it musical.
Nice!
I have a Mesa Mk V and I use it in a simple basic way and strangely I use channels 1 & 2 way more than 3. I’m just not that much a high gain guy (the price was good fit the 95 watt big boy that I bought used) and I’ll bet that setting it up in that sort of fashion with channel switching and maybe a boost could get some really cool sounds. Great video Mason, loved all the sounds, and you’ve been practicing. Don’t short yourself, you’re a way better player than you give yourself credit for.
Thanks Eric...I'm surrounded by a lot of the best players around so I always feel like a hack compared to the studio legends and recording artists. Listening to yourself play is a very humbling experience - you think you sound so good in a room and then you realize how bad the timing was or how out of tune you are...it's helped me get better mostly out of not embarrassing myself LOL!
@@VertexEffectsInc lol. I know what you mean. I’ve recorded myself a few time and when I listen back I always ask “how can I be that bad”. Lol. But, you’re a badass brother.
🙏🙏🙏
I still have my Rack a Digitech DSP 2101 into a Marshall 9100 amp and 1960A cab, now I want something small and light. The bass rig had one or two SWR SM900 heads with a DBX 160A and an Ensoniq DP4, of course the bass rig of the day needed the Mu-Tron, SCF Chorus, Morley Bass Wah, and Boss Synth Bass pedal.
👍👍👍
Believe it or not I'm trying to build a small rack unit, problem is finding them around here lol. Great content.
Thanks for watching Charles!!!
Clean compressed tone is my favourite. Please, send Vertex's produtcs to Brazil.
Thanks for watching!
I have a full 21unit rack, filled to the brim with classic rack gear, i even have 5 on top😂
I am 20, never used a single pedal
Wow!
Is it really a rack without a pcm/eclipse/harmonizer and a mesa power amp?
@@0megalul309 yes. I dont have money for that kind of stuff
@@MathiasBronnes should have just used the money and gone 12u with the good stuff than use 21u of forgotten gear
@@0megalul309 and have a rack that has the most common crap? No thanks
This is guilty pleasure!!! 🤘😍
One Question: If you don't have a Tri-Chorus, the BOSS DC-2W + Eventide MicroPitch could do the job? Thank you very much!!!
Why feel guilty ;). I think you probably need a Micro Pitch no matter what - it would've helped here we just didn't have space. I might remove the tremolo in the future for the Micro Pitch since the tremolo isn't so important (or get a smaller one). The DC-2W is good as well!
Saw Steve lukathers star licks recently the tri chorus sound he had was unbelievable
heck yea!!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc people seem to hate on those 80s tones but they're almost synth like I think they're great. Really enjoying fuzz with a really slow rate chorus just wish I could get those tri chorus tones on my budget!
@@benjaminwoodrowmusic6070 it's making a comeback!
@@VertexEffectsInc what do you think of the tc electronic corona chorus that's got a tri chorus mode on it
@@benjaminwoodrowmusic6070 poor - of the digital versions I think the Tri Avatar or the Neunaber are the closest
Hey Mason! Killer Vid... very close to my current selections however I have to say I am torn between 2 pedals. I'm a big Eddie fan (Balance Tone) and love the Huff Landau Tri Chorus stuff. I will be using a PCB6x and I'm trying to maximize my real estate but I want your advice.. What do you think will bring me closer to all those previous influences, Eventide Micro Pitch or Tricerachorus? FYI The board will have a Colider Delay/Verb, Compadre Compressor, RJM Overture (med Gain), EVH 5150 OD, Phase 95, CAE Boost, Eventide Pedal... Thanks so much I've been binging your fantastic videos!
You kinda need both (tri chorus and pitch). Neunaber has a chorus pedal that does both in one if you need to save space.
@@VertexEffectsInc I second this, the Tri-Chorus Inspire is such a sick pedal! Can send the stereo outs directly into a stereo delay>>verb, or split from there into each.
Alan parsons- I wouldn’t want to be like you. Very reminiscent of the sounds you’re getting.
heck yea!!!
does it mean the chorus effect went in from front of the amp and not is effect loop style?
How do you like the neunaber inspire for the tri stereo chorus and detune sound?
I like it!
This sound like the local sound guys dream, especially on a Monday night with 2 people there
Hahahahahaha
6:01 PYT! Tight man!
🙏🙏🙏
Awesome as usual. I would have done the drive section differently. I would have chosen a Klon type (clean set above unity) into a Wampler Pantheon, then for high gain I think I would go for a Mesa Throttle Box EQ. Your Boost would be nice anywhere in that line. Or this modded Katana Boost that I have. Though that is a hard choice.
We must hear the 80's differently. Centaur is more 2000's era sound for scooped Fender amps and Strats. Pantheon is like a Marshall Blues Breaker Pedal, that came out in the 90's. They don't sound very much like a Soldano or SE 3+ or the standard rack preamps of the day.
@@VertexEffectsInc. No. You're absolutely correct about the board you made.
I'm just blowing right past the fact the video was about the 80s. I was just being a goober.
Two questions: Of the 3 main rack choruses is a Tri Stereo type chorus, a TC 1210 stereo type chorus, or a Roland Dimension D more versatile? If I had to have just one do it all type, what would it be? Second, of the two main rack detunes, is a Yamaha SPX 90 or Eventide H3000 better?
They're all pretty different. Probably the Dimension D is more versatile, but they're all kinda one trick pony's. H3000 for detune and SPX90 are super similar, I'd save the dough and go Yamaha.
Good luck finding an original TSC...they're hard to come by and will cost a mint if you find one. On the other hand, Redseven (previously Shiva Audio) made "The Wave" which is an identical replica of the original Dytronics TSC. More recently Fulltone did the same thing, "That 80s Chorus Rack". The former sounds amazing, and I own the latter and can vouch for how amazing it sounds. Answer: TSC for chorus. Dimension D has a completely different stereo field that doesn't sound very thick. The TC1210 also is limited in its ability to thicken up the chorus.
For micro pitch detune, I prefer the Yamaha SPX 90. It's mono in - stereo out, so you'd need to route everything into a line mixer, which I've spent hours on trying various chains...
However, the Eventide also has its strong points and sounds equally amazing. I actually set up a rig today using the Eventide MicroPitch pedal for that part of the chain, and it sounds SO FN GOOD. SPX-90 maybe sounds a bit more authentic with 80s haze, but a Harmonizer at least has stereo ins and outs so there's less routing going on.
Andy Summer's base clean tone was a lot cleaner than that.
Another staple of that era and that was my tone for a lot of the 80s and early 90s was the Rockam Sustainor (yes, that's how it was spelled) for compression and a Strat on position 2 (to get the quack) and through a JC-120... and for those not being to afford Bradshaw rigs, a ton of Boss pedals ;).
Later, my rig changed to a 2 amps rig with the JC-120 for clean and a Marshall 2x12 combo and an Art multi effects rack unit (later replaced with a Korg A3) replaced the ridiculous mess of boss pedals making the rig a LOT more reliable ;). I then used 3 Rockman Y boxes (they were named something different that I forget) and a Rockman MIDI Octopus to control them and the channel switching on the Marshall. All I had on the floor was the Rockman midi controller footswitch and my volume pedal. If I remember, I plugged my guitar directly in the Sustainer and its output went to a first Y box routing my signal to either amp's input. I forget the details but the other two Y boxes where used to either put the Art or Korg A3 in either the Marshall's FX loop or in front of the JC-120 because it didn't have a loop. Later the JC-120 was replaced by my old trusty red knobs Twin also in a double amps rig with the Marshall. The Twin had an effects loop so two Y boxes were used to place the Art or Korg in either amp's Effects loops One was used to route the two amps FX loops send to the multifx unit's input and that unit's output was then routed to either amp's FX retuern. All controlled by the Rockman MIDI Octopus so it was all presets. A preset change on the midi pedalboard sent a program change to both the Octopus which changed the Y boxes' status accordingly and change the preset on the multi fx unit. All fit in a 4 or 5 U rack I had on a special stand. My Korg tuner was velcro'd in there as well as my wireless receiver on top ;) Worked great at the time!
I hadn't though about that rig in a while. Good times!
I've been watching a lot of live Police. Andy was using a Marshall JMP era head and cab with pedals - not that clean even on the "clean" parts on the record. I also mention you could sub a compressor for drive and get cleaner and then demo that as well in the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc Indeed but I mainly referred to studio versions, especially for Walking On The Moon where his tone is almost pristine clean (not JC-120 clean of course but very clean for a JMP). It had hair on it but it was really not what I'd call edge or breakup or beyond which is where you were. Splitting hairs I know ;)
I am well aware of Andy's gear having been a huge fan for decades. Btw, he used an Electro-Harmonix Electric Mistress and not an actual chorus pedal. I knew about that before, but Dan mentions that a lot on the Pedal Show because he has one of those pedals and loves it :)
The video was spot on but I just though you had way too much dirt for Walking. He also had a pretty bright tone and his main Tele had a preamp of some sort in it pushing the front of the amp harder when he needed to. And yes, it was early 80s in his case before those huge Bradhsaw type racks became so pupular.
@@StephaneBergeronPixelyzed I agree, the recorded album is clean, I also mention that you can clean it up by using the compressor only and no first gain stage - and then demo it, but go into a Crowded House lick that's in the same sonic terrain. I think it illustrates it well. Yes, he is using the EXH Electric Mistress, however he's using it to modulate like a chorus (not a prototypical flanger sound), and he also had a CE-1 in his rig as well (or the JC but that's the same chorus as the CE-1). The "Filter Matrix" version of the Electric Mistress is a cool pedal but pretty terrible to use in rigs since it's noisy and super unreliable - also not optimized for guitar impedances like today's pedals. The Hartman was a good substitute - but also no longer made.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yup, appreciated the Crowded House lick (I play it all the time, it's fun!) Andy indeed used the Electric Mistress as a chorus-like effect but it's a different vibe and some people wonder why they can't get it right with just a chorus. The Dynacomp was a big part of his tone too (and I'm a comp always on kind of player in large part because his tone to me was the reference tone I tried to emulate back then).
To m y knowledge, his JC-120s (he had two) were used mostly to amplify his GR-300 guitar synth and rarely if ever for straight guitar. But the JC-120 was the sound of early Tears For Fears, it was Adrian Belew's amp throughout his stint with 80s King Crimson, etc. It was a very prevalent amp back then and, closer to what I played then, it was Marillion's Steven Rothery's clean tone and it was my first professional quality amp and I played one for over 10 years. Strat on position 2 through either a Boss compressor then the JC-120 or later in my case, through a Rockman Sustainor's comp then the JC-120 was a classic sound of the era (if you didn't play metal which brought you to a very different type of rig of course).
Your chosen effects to emulate all that in the video were spot on!
@@StephaneBergeronPixelyzed Andy used the JC-120 for "Murder by Numbers"...that wet/dry chorus effect is unmistakable.
Another rack effect, reverb. I have the Neunaber Immerse MKII. It's just like Jeff Buckley's massive edited Taj Mahal Reverb, from an Alesis Rack Unit. He's an all time hero. Another rack effect is digital delay. Cocteau Twins, Perry Farrel's vocals in JA. Not sure what to suggest for that schtuff. But those are some favourites of mine for rack stuff
Thanks for sharing!
Close but no cigar, You just can't beat the PCM's and Ultra Harmonizer's..
You can get dang close for sure. The new Eventide Micro Pitch is real good for the H3000 thing.
"And since I'm not man enough to play without the compressor" 🤣💀
😂😂😂 I know…but it’s true
@@VertexEffectsInc I feel the same way bro haha
✊✊✊
Guilty
I know you were constrained by space, but that rig is begging for the Eventide MicroPitch to get the Van Halen still chorus with the +/- ~9cent pitch shift in the L/R stereo.
Funny...I just got one that I'm adding :)
What guitar pick were you using? Whatever it is works really well with a strat type guitar. I find for nailing those 80s strat tones requires using a pick with the right thickness, material used in manufacturing, and pick shape.
I wish someone would cover guitar picks used by the studio pros back in that era.
There's not much out there on the topic.
No idea...what did they use?
Cliff Burton I think used a wet, dry, wet rig for the master of puppets tour because he used rack mount pitch shift effects that used a foot pedal which you can hear the pitch shifting effects on the live concerts 1985-1986. If you can make a video like you do on eric claptons 80s rig about Cliff Burtons pitch shifts rig would be nice.
I'd have to research it more for sure
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks that will help out a lot
@@VertexEffectsInc Joe Holmes I think used the marshall amps direct output that goes to a Boss SE70 which Splits the signal into Two SED3000 which then goes to TWO V800. Its an interesting trademark tone.
@@waynegram8907 The signal path sounds like a dream :)
can you do a video about the alesis midiverb 2 and def leppard
Wasn't that all a Rockman?
@@VertexEffectsInc czcams.com/video/4mwcevNXi0s/video.html check this out
The people in church go into a tail spin when I tell them I run in stereo..... wet~dry~wet would make there tail spin even worse. So I don't play at church any more.
I've definitely run it a time or two...I think folks are just getting hip to how to use this method with modern gear. Hopefully it catches on!
@@VertexEffectsInc I push your cool videos at my guitar playing friends..... I ask for their opinions. It gets interesting..... Waiting for this.
I play in stereo every time I play in church
What pickups are in the Anderson ?
Seymour Duncan EVH '78 Pickup in the bridge, and DiMarzio Area 58's in the neck and middle.
@@VertexEffectsInc the 78 is incredible. I've just put one in my own Anderson
Tones are there for the most part, especially the clean ones, even though the dBx 160’s hard knee vca type compression hits a lot harder than an opto style.
The advantage of racks is the programmability and saving of presets for each machine, which is more limited in a pedalboard format, especially with effects levels (infact, the very first crunch tone you demoed has way too much delay for a rhythm part, and the delay’s bpm is not matching the tempo of the part, but these are details), although, when you have dialed in those four or five great sounds you can certainly play 90% or gigs, save those two or three special fx patches.
I still love the rack thing, it’s a totem for me, but as you say, it’s unlikely to have it out on a stage these days with budget constraints and less guitar centric music at the top of the charts, so I’m glad that such cool tones can be achieved for the most part in a compact pedalboard format.
Cheers
The RJM Switcher can perform all the programmable functions, just like the Bradshaw racks of old. Most of the classical rack units didn't have MIDI so you had to set your functions for a singular use and then use the programming to bring it in or out of the audio path, the PCM Lexicon stuff in particular, Tri Stereo Chorus, TC 1210, etc. I agree the delay was as bit off on the first example of the higher gain stuff...I actually didn't think our editors were going to use that as we talked about it in the video shoot and I tapped in a more appropriate tempo for the subsequent examples. Again, just like in a rack, these delay/reverbs can be programmed and preset whoever you'd like them. In the video I was calling up the pedals manually "du jour" for the purposes of the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc That’s true for the very first racks that were pioneering the thing, early eighties. As technology progressed, say mid to late eighties, with monster machines like the H3000 or PCM70 and TC2290 units the thing became even more involved as each unit could do more than just a single effect at a time and could save dozens of presets. But some staples, like the Dytronics TSC or the SPX90 detune were one trick ponies and only a switcher could bring them in and out of the path. Some people are able to do that whole thing now with just a single unit, like an H9000, which has so much DSP horsepower to cover it all, even tough being the rack thing a “size matters” matter only one rack unit takes away all the fun...(kidding)
@@lore88824 Typically the H3000 was only used for one thing, Detune (+9/-9) or the SPX90 was used in it's place so really in either case, no MIDI was being used since it was just on/off. Of most of the benchmark guys: Landau, Lukather, Huff, Thompson for that tone very little of the gear was MIDI. Maybe later on in the 90's when some started using the MPX-1 they would use more MIDI but were only using two effects in parallel (like Delay and Reverb in Landau's case from the MPX-1).
@@VertexEffectsInc MPX-1 is post 90’s (I got mine in 2001). PCM circular delays were available in 70, while 80 and 81 offered a whole lotta stuff including delays, reverbs snd modulations.
Besides, not here to argue but Landau/Luke/Huff are always cited like they were the only ones using rack gear to create cool tones, but there’s many more, albeit in different musical genres, which pushed the boundaries of rack gear use even more. Let’s think about what Vai did with an H3000 in Passion & Warfare for a second...I think it’s way more than detune...
Never heard again the sound of the Rocktron Intellifex
Why doesn't vertex come out with a pedal that is like the ADA MP-1 rack because most producers used the ADA MP-1 rack with the Furman PQ-4 on most of the 80's rock records. It would be real nice to have a small pedal that has both the ADA MP-1 rack and the Furman PQ-4 in one small pedal. Also the Empirical lab distressor was another very used rack unit that most producers would use on the mic'ed cabs which would be nice to make into a small pedal the empirical lab distressor. I know eric johnson used the MXR Flanger doubler rack unit which you can make a video lesson about how he used the MXR flanger doubler then went into an MXR 1500 delay flanger unit.
Could be cool! Didn't ADA make a pedal version of the MP-1?
@@VertexEffectsInc yes they did its called the ADA MP1 channel pedal it has a dual 12AX7 and they also make an ADA cabinet simulator so you can use both. Most producers used the ADA MP1 with the Furman PQ-4 in the amplifiers effects loop and then would use the distressor on the mic'ed cabinet. I'm not sure why most producers used the ADA MP1 but it must have a certain compression and harmonics for recording good tracks. If you look at most studio guitarist that had racks you will mostly see those 3 units in the rack but these are hired studio cats.
@@VertexEffectsInc Another method is guitarist will use the boss blues driver instead of a buffer pedal because the boss blues driver has a FET input so you can roll down your strat volume pot setting and it will keep the signal very clean without any frequency response altering and degradation of frequency loss. The Boss blues driver it acting and behaving very closely like a fender amplifiers input stage because of the dynamic picking attack is sensitive in the boss blues driver circuit which you don't get with a buffer pedal. The EXPRESS Effects inc Buffer pedal has an Input loading trim pot on the side of the buffer pedal that ranges from 10K to 1Meg which is acting like a cable simulation. So studio rats are using the boss blue drivers are using it as a dynamic buffer instead of using a static buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc They did, but it wasn't too great in the opinion of people with intimate familiarity with original MP-1s, like me.
@@waynegram8907 In lieu of a blues driver, Source Audio just came out with the Zio analog OD, which has a killer FET circuit. Really helps bring the tones out of a Landau-esq rig. I won't record without it now!
I use my Helix for this. With one dry amp.
That’s another way to go but you can only have two effects in parallel at once
Also what pick were you using?
Usually a Dunlop .88
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm finding that one to be a good happy medium. When playing solos I feel more comfortable with a 1 mm tortex. It just helps me feel more connected.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for the info on your guitar pick. By the way has anyone told you that you kinda of look and sound like Jack Black? You could have easily been cast for School of Rock.
Micheal Thompson is at the top of the list....
One of the greats
Got that pedalboard still? Wanna sell it?
Racks are still a big thing. But those whom can't finance lugging the racks around, then pedalboards and things like a Kemper are used. Racks are getting rediciously expensive. Companies like Red Seven are very much into racks. Mike Toren, M Nielsen band Leon Todd are racklovers with CZcams channels.
Racks are just better, but....it weighs.
Commercially they're not the norm - guys that have sedentary racks, yes (most of whom you mentioned) but the infrastructure isn't there to support a guitar player with a rack unless that guitar player is the main event. The players that you mentioned are more on the production side and aren't touring. The volume of rack items sold per year is nominal - sure there are companies making the, but it's a fringe market now, not like the 80's and 90's.
@@VertexEffectsInc yes and no. We are quite a few that tours and records with a big rack. 😊
@@VertexEffectsInc but no it is due to money and weight not like in the 80-ties and 90-ties. Apart from the big bands like U2, Metallica, David Gilmour etc etc. Then it is rackdominated rigs. The racks like a Ada MP1 is becoming ridiculously expensive. Luckily I have the rack since way back when.
@@peterknicked this would be the exception and not the rule. Sounds like your individual circumstances for tours reflects your broader perspectives on racks and the pervasiveness. There will still be individuals that use them that are the main event, the driver of their music. You'll no longer see a Bradshaw rack with a sideman the way you would with Landau, Lukather, Paul Jackson Jr., Michael Thompson, Dann Huff, as you would've seen in the 80's and 90's. Guitar players now are ornamental in most pop music and allocating $50,000 in cartage for a summer tour just isn't practical. So you see more pedalboards, AxeFx, Kempers, etc. as a consequence.
Where's the micro pitch after the chorus!? The horror!! Could have turned the rate up a bit to compensate for that... At any rate- Good job milking those pedals though, sounded good for what you had. Also appreciate the great explanation of the signal chain. Those with rack gear and a line level mixer can build off this.
Hahahaha, I have a Eventide MP on this rig now after the chorus :)
@@VertexEffectsInc Yesss!! I’m in love with that pedal, it’s pretty versatile. Sounds really good in stereo!
7:52 20:53
Very nice, but if chorus was in stereo...
No so problematic in this instance, and most of the analog choruses out there couldn't take a line level input to split out the stereo signal before the parallel mixer.
This is like Christopher Nolan explaining wet/dry....
Huh?
😂
10:13 I Don't Care!!! Nice.
Hahah! Yes!
I thought modulation was considered a wet effect…
We mention that but because this chorus won’t do line level and is mono it’s not practical to put after the line out.
The answer is no, you will never be able to recreate the sound of the racks tones with pedals.
Maybe I am crediting it too much, but I think roughly 75% of these glorious tones comes from the Two Rock and how it handles dirt pedals in particular. I mean if you hook up either a Tubescreamer or a Riot to say Hot Rod Deville you'll end up with much more squeaky, pinchy and screachy tone with harmonics all over the place. Two Rock's ability to hold the tone together and entrench it in these woody/bell-like qualities is stellar.
I will get pretty similar results with most clean Pedal platform amps, saying this is somebody that normally use as a Hot Rod Deville and made most of these pedal choices based on how they sounded in a variety of clean amps. Most of the processing tone is in the amplifier at all, but the stereo cab Zeus speaker cab simulations for the stereo wet signal.
I am nowhere near your expertise and knowledge; just having some of mine own from plucking here and there;-)
Here comes the proposal: if you could make a demo of your brand new Ultraphonix pedal through the Deville and the Two Rock, I am more than certain it would sound WAY BETTER through the Two Rock -creamier, woodier, belly-like, tastier, together.
Will you pick up the gauntlet? It would be a nice comparison anyway.
The answer is no.
Exactly!
Pedals cannot replicate the “LA Sound”. The rack will be back because of this. That sound is magic. Boutique pedals are gonna be obsolete.
You can get pretty darn close, the litmus test would be a good blind A/B
I wouldn’t say obsolete - but more accessible. Very true, there are some sounds and especially combination and breadth of sounds that are only coming out of one of those racks - we won’t replace em with pedalboards.
While Mason hasn’t covered ALL the ground of the big boys, and though the board didn’t have space left for magic, he managed to cram in a good sampling of 80s sweetness on one little footswitchable area.
Keep the love for those sounds alive @ RandyHarrington!
@@jacobpittman1996 I think a micro-pitch would have been the only core thing that was missed, could have subbed the tremolo for that - not much there that wasn't on the Huff, Landau, Lukather rigs.
No.
Please stop using the bubble pop sound effect. It's distracting and annoying.
Watch any video from the last few months, it's gone.
@@VertexEffectsInc All good. I watch as many of your videos as I can find. You're a good teacher. Thanks
????
please get rid of your pop noises on your videos
How about the rest of the video ?