Hey Finn -Thanks for documenting the autopsy of my blown flat 6. Not only did this failure impact my wallet last year but it was a huge revelation to how poor Porsche's customer service is. I called every dealer in California asking for advice, assistance, a shoulder to cry on and eventually just a quote so I can write a check and buy a new engine. None of them were helpful, returned phone calls, emails, some even wanted to CHARGE me for a quote because it took a tech off the floor from being productive... WTF . I sent letters to Porsche NA, made phone calls and there was zero interest why a low mileage, non tracked, well maintained 991 engine would fail. You are out of warranty and you don't even come to us for 350 dollar oil changes so we have no sympathy.. So long! The funny thing is that most indy shops were also hesitant or not even interested in rebuilding a 991, and if they were, it took a lot of probing and follow up. Ironically, I sold my 997.1 because of the fear of IMS failure and ended up getting this little gift! I will give huge Kudos to EMD auto in Anaheim CA and Thomas who found me a used engine and installed at a very fair price. So my 991.lives again and we are back in action, but do I sleep with one eye open? You bet I do...
I'm glad your back on the road, but want to let you know that what happened is not a common occurrence with the 9A1 series engines. I'm hopping the route you took was more of a cost effective option with a known good engine and all should be ok. Best and happy motoring.
Thanks for sharing brother. I want a Porsche so bad but coming from a Honda S2000 that’s been ultra fun and reliable Im having a hard time making the leap. All these cars seem to be plagued w engine issues. 996, 997.1 and 997.2, 991. Either IMS, bore scoring or other self destruction. Rebuilds are $30k. Ouch!
No they are not! You just have to know which model to buy and what to look for! Buy a salvage 997/991 Turbo, fix it up for yourself and enjoy it for the rest of your life!@@DonBMW
@@MaciusSzwed Thanks for that but decided to go w 2023 Lotus Emira $99k w a V6 Supercharged Toyota engine. Proven platform w reputation as a bulletproof engine. 0-60 in 4.3sec and 400HP. Goodbye Porsche Hello Lotus! 🎉
Hearing about the back story would be interesting - who owns the car/engine and why are you involved? I am quite shocked and disappointed that a 991 engine with less than 40k miles should fail in such a way - especially if it benefitted from proper maintenance. Do you know if these 991 engines are now starting to demonstrate failure like the old 996 variants? Although it probably makes no financial sense, I would say rebuilding this 991 engine would make excellent content - not sure this (991 rebuild) has been done on CZcams before. Your last 996 rebuild was an outstanding series of videos and for anybody else carrying out such a 996 rebuild would be invaluable. I would suggest, if you do bit the bullet and go forward with the 991 rebuild, in order to invest even more credibility into the series of videos, you might want to imbed more interactions with Lee Jenkins and Hartech. This firm does now have a tremendous reputation and following.
Depending on how the engine looked inside there was a potential to rebuild it. Running the math on what would be involved in making this engine honest again, it would be unlikely that the project would make a profit. Personally I had to focus on some health issues, this engine was the final project before I needed to stop. The owner of the engine has a number of comments under the videos that give more background on the car/engine. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
When splitting the cases you firstly remove bank 1 piston wrist pins which then allows the cases to come apart but you need some very expensive special tools from Porsche. So your way of doing it finn saved you a lot of money. Well done and a great video. And to think everyone says the gen 2 engines don’t score bores 🙈
I thought I saw you guys (well, Barry at any rate) advertising for ages on forums looking for extra 9A1 engines to work on. If they're all now scoring as you imply, why was it such an effort to source a scored engine to do development work on? M97 engines were failing with scoring from new with sub 10k miles etc. I can't see much evidence that the 9A1 is remotely comparable. It's still quite hard to find examples of engines that have failed with scoring. It happens, but it;s surely a very different scale of problem compared to the M97?
Salutations Stefan, C'est un plaisir d'obtenir ces commentaires de l'autre côté du monde. Pouvez-vous croire qu'il n'y a pas de voitures Peugeot, Citroen ou Renault ici en Amérique ?? Ces bêtes excentriques me manquent 😂 Merci beaucoup d'avoir regardé 🤘😎
Shit Dude, I'm sorry. The further I got into this engine project the more it became apparent that these "finely tuned" German masterpieces turn into scrap metal shockingly fast. The word on the street is that the dealer will give you $10k for your engine when you buy a new one from them?? Good luck 🍀. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
I was hoping you could tell me that Holden Holden! 😅 The whole big end bearing thing could be the same stretching con rod bold issue that the 996 engine have. The Conrod's seem almost identical to 996 ones. The big end bearings are all pretty beaten up from a single point of pressure on the inner bearing shell, that was the reason I put the Hartech wider big end bearings in my 996 engine. What do you think? Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Same reasons as 996 engines. Specially 3.6 and bigger. Never happened in engines smaller than 3.4. Ithink it is a combination of rod stroke ratio, and aging lubrication systems. Does it happen in dry sump engines? In my opinion changing the pistons early will prevent this. Piston skirt coatings are very hard to inspect and their performance at extended mileage is basically unknown. Maybe an offset cylinder and pistons would help. But generally I would rather reduce displacement to get optimal rod stroke ratios and turbocharging. I’ll snag a few 2.7 litre engines while they are cheap.
You'll need to have a conversation with LN Engineering on this matter. The pistons run directly in (the block material)alusil bores, as there are no liners in these engines. This engine series was designed to replace the M96, M97 & the Mezger engine series that was derived from the air cooled and converted to water cooled towards the end of production. That one cylinder was cold seizing and it went downhill from there.
@@NickElias did you watch the video? Options get explained at the end - bore and plate the cylinders if that's an option, or re-sleeve if the damage is too great. This is a known issue with modern Porsche engines and has known solutions.
@@JimMutterI did watch it. They are probably going to say the same thing I’ve heard too. Buy a drop out or buy a new engine from Porsche. Unless you send it to them they’re not helpful. I’ve tried.
Hello Warren, the plating/sleeving info came from Jason at millennium-technologies.com/contact/ That is who LN engineering use to do some of their plating work. He was very helpful. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
I've been researching Porsches for about 10 months. I've learned of the IMS bearing, bore scoring, engine coil failure, 992 drive shaft failure etc. Could some explain why the cost of replacing cylinder liners is so expensive on a Porsche engine block?
Im not really qualified to answer that. Some of the perceived difference may come from the cost compared with a more common resleeving. The better companies like Hartech are not just resleeving the bores, they are completely machine out the old cylinders and replacing them with a new structure. Other contributing factors come from all the time and money involved in new seals, gaskets etc plus the fact that your probably paying a pretty high hourly rate if you use a Porsche specialist. Contact Hartech or Slakker development for a better answer! Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
It was shocking to find out that some 9A1 engines have a similar but different fatal flaw to the 996 and 997 cars . In case you missed the info, Barry Hart of Hartech Porsche commented on the video saying that some 9A1 engines have an issue with pistons wedging themselves into the block. It was his opinion that the mangling of the big end bearings was secondary due to the piston refusing to move in the cylinder. From what I understand, allowing the engine to completely warm through before getting heavy with your right foot is the way to go. Some cars may be destined for failure despite regular maintenance due to variations in manufacturing tolerances. Thank you for watching!🤘😎
Could you get an over-rev report for this engine? Was this a manual trans car with a Money$ shift? What do we think came first, bore scoring or spun rod bearing? How do the piston skirts look on cyl-6? I say bore it 2mm over, put a stroker crank in it, and rebuild it! 4.2L anyone?
It came from a manual car, no money shifts during my my 5 years, rebuilding was quoted on average of 30K, but some with lots of questions on wether it will "work". due to the electrical and computer programming when going with bigger displacement. That sounded very comforting.
According to Barry Hart of Hartech it was most likely the pistons expanding faster than the block due to engine heat causing the piston with the least clearance to wedge itself in the bore. Apparently this is a “thing” on 991 engines. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
That would be a great number to have. If anyone knows it would be Porsche, they are probably not keen for that percentage to be public. If you find it, let me know. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
Please add any prices you have to the comments section. The prices in the video are from a combination of my local Porsche dealer, pelican parts combined with my experience rebuilding the 996 engine. The basic rebuild cost is certainly best case scenario. In addition, the labor to have an engine shop assemble the engine is not mentioned, that labor charge will definitely be in the thousands. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
What has happened to Porsche engines lately? I have two friends that have Porsches, one a 997, the other a 991. Both have blown engines with less than 25K.
That is my sentiment also Fred. Are these the unfortunate few that catch our attention or the sign of something more insidious? Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Keep reading the comments section, someone might have a solid clue. A spun bearing due to stretched conrod bolts/big end bearing wear??? Thats my guess right now. We may never know. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Is this due to style of driving e.g. failing to let engine warm up, over revving, and extreme use in just 39k miles say extensive track sessions, insufficient oil changes ?
@@erolfox HMMMMM, Possible. But I seen many M97, M96 engines with bore score issue, but crack was OK. I think they rarely used the car, many dry starts. Oil starvation at start ups......
It was my engine, car was driven every weekend for the last 5 years of its life... It never sat for long periods. But even if it did, would that be an excuse for this to happen? Not in my book.
@@ManinaGarage As always its symptom & cause = bore scored because of bearing failure; clearly the question is what caused the bearing failure?The over-rev report would be a start point. As can be seen, apart from basic layout, there is no comparison to the earlier oft referenced 996 unit.
Hey Finn -Thanks for documenting the autopsy of my blown flat 6. Not only did this failure impact my wallet last year but it was a huge revelation to how poor Porsche's customer service is. I called every dealer in California asking for advice, assistance, a shoulder to cry on and eventually just a quote so I can write a check and buy a new engine. None of them were helpful, returned phone calls, emails, some even wanted to CHARGE me for a quote because it took a tech off the floor from being productive... WTF . I sent letters to Porsche NA, made phone calls and there was zero interest why a low mileage, non tracked, well maintained 991 engine would fail. You are out of warranty and you don't even come to us for 350 dollar oil changes so we have no sympathy.. So long!
The funny thing is that most indy shops were also hesitant or not even interested in rebuilding a 991, and if they were, it took a lot of probing and follow up. Ironically, I sold my 997.1 because of the fear of IMS failure and ended up getting this little gift! I will give huge Kudos to EMD auto in Anaheim CA and Thomas who found me a used engine and installed at a very fair price. So my 991.lives again and we are back in action, but do I sleep with one eye open? You bet I do...
I'm glad your back on the road, but want to let you know that what happened is not a common occurrence with the 9A1 series engines. I'm hopping the route you took was more of a cost effective option with a known good engine and all should be ok. Best and happy motoring.
Thanks for sharing brother. I want a Porsche so bad but coming from a Honda S2000 that’s been ultra fun and reliable Im having a hard time making the leap. All these cars seem to be plagued w engine issues. 996, 997.1 and 997.2, 991. Either IMS, bore scoring or other self destruction. Rebuilds are $30k. Ouch!
No they are not! You just have to know which model to buy and what to look for! Buy a salvage 997/991 Turbo, fix it up for yourself and enjoy it for the rest of your life!@@DonBMW
@@MaciusSzwed
Thanks for that but decided to go w 2023 Lotus Emira $99k w a V6 Supercharged Toyota engine. Proven platform w reputation as a bulletproof engine. 0-60 in 4.3sec and 400HP. Goodbye Porsche Hello Lotus! 🎉
Thats also a very nice car, congrats and enjoy!@@DonBMW
Hearing about the back story would be interesting - who owns the car/engine and why are you involved? I am quite shocked and disappointed that a 991 engine with less than 40k miles should fail in such a way - especially if it benefitted from proper maintenance. Do you know if these 991 engines are now starting to demonstrate failure like the old 996 variants?
Although it probably makes no financial sense, I would say rebuilding this 991 engine would make excellent content - not sure this (991 rebuild) has been done on CZcams before. Your last 996 rebuild was an outstanding series of videos and for anybody else carrying out such a 996 rebuild would be invaluable.
I would suggest, if you do bit the bullet and go forward with the 991 rebuild, in order to invest even more credibility into the series of videos, you might want to imbed more interactions with Lee Jenkins and Hartech. This firm does now have a tremendous reputation and following.
Depending on how the engine looked inside there was a potential to rebuild it. Running the math on what would be involved in making this engine honest again, it would be unlikely that the project would make a profit. Personally I had to focus on some health issues, this engine was the final project before I needed to stop. The owner of the engine has a number of comments under the videos that give more background on the car/engine. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
When splitting the cases you firstly remove bank 1 piston wrist pins which then allows the cases to come apart but you need some very expensive special tools from Porsche. So your way of doing it finn saved you a lot of money. Well done and a great video. And to think everyone says the gen 2 engines don’t score bores 🙈
As usual Lee I had no idea that was the wrong way to do it! 🤣😂 Thank you for watching the struggle 🤘😎
I thought I saw you guys (well, Barry at any rate) advertising for ages on forums looking for extra 9A1 engines to work on. If they're all now scoring as you imply, why was it such an effort to source a scored engine to do development work on? M97 engines were failing with scoring from new with sub 10k miles etc. I can't see much evidence that the 9A1 is remotely comparable. It's still quite hard to find examples of engines that have failed with scoring. It happens, but it;s surely a very different scale of problem compared to the M97?
I wonder if things are improved in the 991.2... (fingers etc crossed...)
Hi, thanks a lot, always a pleasure to watch your video, I'm waiting the next one :) .Stefan from France
Salutations Stefan, C'est un plaisir d'obtenir ces commentaires de l'autre côté du monde. Pouvez-vous croire qu'il n'y a pas de voitures Peugeot, Citroen ou Renault ici en Amérique ?? Ces bêtes excentriques me manquent 😂 Merci beaucoup d'avoir regardé 🤘😎
Coffee table sounds just right!! Good job. And you are funny too.
Secretly, it's possible that the "Coffee Table" option was what I was hoping for all along 🧘🏻♂ ☕. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
@@ManinaGarage 😂😂😂
Hi my friend. Can't wait for this one to start. Bob Rose Northampton UK 🇬🇧
Merry Greeting Bob 🙌 I have had some awesome Indian Curry in Northampton 🥳Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Heart Breaker. Same symptoms on mine, likely the same outcome and options. Not good! Thank you for this video!
Shit Dude, I'm sorry. The further I got into this engine project the more it became apparent that these "finely tuned" German masterpieces turn into scrap metal shockingly fast. The word on the street is that the dealer will give you $10k for your engine when you buy a new one from them?? Good luck 🍀. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Sorry to hear that... Try and find a used engine, it is somewhat risky but still half the price. That is if you are a gambling man.. I guess I am!
Ufff 991😮😮😮Good video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Good informative video!
What are the root causes for bore scoring on a 991 engine? I'm aware of the bore scoring problems on the 996's and 997's.
I was hoping you could tell me that Holden Holden! 😅 The whole big end bearing thing could be the same stretching con rod bold issue that the 996 engine have. The Conrod's seem almost identical to 996 ones. The big end bearings are all pretty beaten up from a single point of pressure on the inner bearing shell, that was the reason I put the Hartech wider big end bearings in my 996 engine. What do you think? Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Same reasons as 996 engines. Specially 3.6 and bigger. Never happened in engines smaller than 3.4. Ithink it is a combination of rod stroke ratio, and aging lubrication systems. Does it happen in dry sump engines? In my opinion changing the pistons early will prevent this. Piston skirt coatings are very hard to inspect and their performance at extended mileage is basically unknown. Maybe an offset cylinder and pistons would help. But generally I would rather reduce displacement to get optimal rod stroke ratios and turbocharging. I’ll snag a few 2.7 litre engines while they are cheap.
another option is sumebore but thats really expensive. people will push capacities with these but not for me
In Europe you can find used M104 engines with low mileage like this one for 4-5k!
Best is to buy a short block which comes with pistons, chains, crankshaft from Porsche and to reassemble.
Thats good advice Edward, thank you for being part of the Tiny Garage 🫡
Nice 😊
Your Awesome 🙌
You'll need to have a conversation with LN Engineering on this matter. The pistons run directly in (the block material)alusil bores, as there are no liners in these engines. This engine series was designed to replace the M96, M97 & the Mezger engine series that was derived from the air cooled and converted to water cooled towards the end of production. That one cylinder was cold seizing and it went downhill from there.
What could they do about it? Engine is shot.
@@NickElias did you watch the video? Options get explained at the end - bore and plate the cylinders if that's an option, or re-sleeve if the damage is too great.
This is a known issue with modern Porsche engines and has known solutions.
@@JimMutterI did watch it. They are probably going to say the same thing I’ve heard too. Buy a drop out or buy a new engine from Porsche. Unless you send it to them they’re not helpful. I’ve tried.
@@JimMutter I think a re sleeve would be ideal. Get it wpc treated. Call it a day.
Hello Warren, the plating/sleeving info came from Jason at millennium-technologies.com/contact/ That is who LN engineering use to do some of their plating work. He was very helpful. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but the youtube channel Jim's Automotive Machine Shop, Inc handles this kind of work quite well.
Thank you for the tip and thank you for watching! 🤘😎
I've been researching Porsches for about 10 months. I've learned of the IMS bearing, bore scoring, engine coil failure, 992 drive shaft failure etc. Could some explain why the cost of replacing cylinder liners is so expensive on a Porsche engine block?
Im not really qualified to answer that. Some of the perceived difference may come from the cost compared with a more common resleeving. The better companies like Hartech are not just resleeving the bores, they are completely machine out the old cylinders and replacing them with a new structure. Other contributing factors come from all the time and money involved in new seals, gaskets etc plus the fact that your probably paying a pretty high hourly rate if you use a Porsche specialist. Contact Hartech or Slakker development for a better answer! Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
@@ManinaGarage Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
I was being sarcastic.
Spent big money on a rebuild (bore scoring) on my m97 and I know my 9A1 will need it eventually.
It was shocking to find out that some 9A1 engines have a similar but different fatal flaw to the 996 and 997 cars . In case you missed the info, Barry Hart of Hartech Porsche commented on the video saying that some 9A1 engines have an issue with pistons wedging themselves into the block. It was his opinion that the mangling of the big end bearings was secondary due to the piston refusing to move in the cylinder. From what I understand, allowing the engine to completely warm through before getting heavy with your right foot is the way to go. Some cars may be destined for failure despite regular maintenance due to variations in manufacturing tolerances. Thank you for watching!🤘😎
Could you get an over-rev report for this engine? Was this a manual trans car with a Money$ shift? What do we think came first, bore scoring or spun rod bearing? How do the piston skirts look on cyl-6? I say bore it 2mm over, put a stroker crank in it, and rebuild it! 4.2L anyone?
It came from a manual car, no money shifts during my my 5 years, rebuilding was quoted on average of 30K, but some with lots of questions on wether it will "work". due to the electrical and computer programming when going with bigger displacement. That sounded very comforting.
According to Barry Hart of Hartech it was most likely the pistons expanding faster than the block due to engine heat causing the piston with the least clearance to wedge itself in the bore. Apparently this is a “thing” on 991 engines. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
Do we know what sort of percentage of these engines have major problems?
That would be a great number to have. If anyone knows it would be Porsche, they are probably not keen for that percentage to be public. If you find it, let me know. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
By the way, I hope your back is feeling better.
Getting there! 😅 Thank you. Hopefully more videos soon. 🤘😎
I have 997.1 2S with the blown engine. Do you want to fixit for your channel?
Maybe? Email me stuckinagarage@gmail.com 🤘😎
Wooh that hurtˋs The dude should buy a 996 😂
🤣😂 Better the devil you know huh? Thank you for watching Bob 🤘😎
Your prices are very low?? I would have thought it would have been more??
Please add any prices you have to the comments section. The prices in the video are from a combination of my local Porsche dealer, pelican parts combined with my experience rebuilding the 996 engine. The basic rebuild cost is certainly best case scenario. In addition, the labor to have an engine shop assemble the engine is not mentioned, that labor charge will definitely be in the thousands. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Put a flat twin in it! Lol
Thats less cylinders to get bore scoring? It can't be any worse 😅
What has happened to Porsche engines lately? I have two friends that have Porsches, one a 997, the other a 991. Both have blown engines with less than 25K.
That is my sentiment also Fred. Are these the unfortunate few that catch our attention or the sign of something more insidious? Thank you for watching 🤘😎
But why?
Was a well maintained engine.
They they used the car for very short travels, car sat for long time before each use?
Keep reading the comments section, someone might have a solid clue. A spun bearing due to stretched conrod bolts/big end bearing wear??? Thats my guess right now. We may never know. Thank you for watching 🤘😎
Is this due to style of driving e.g. failing to let engine warm up, over revving, and extreme use in just 39k miles say extensive track sessions, insufficient oil changes ?
Or the classic reason: bad injector washed the cylinder, scoring drag, causing massive forces on crank?🤔
@@erolfox HMMMMM, Possible. But I seen many M97, M96 engines with bore score issue, but crack was OK.
I think they rarely used the car, many dry starts. Oil starvation at start ups......
It was my engine, car was driven every weekend for the last 5 years of its life... It never sat for long periods. But even if it did, would that be an excuse for this to happen? Not in my book.
It's horrifying how much plastic is inside of a modern engine. Plastic has no business being in such an environment. SMH.
Yep, I was surprised at the amount of plastic in these fancy engines. Thank you for watching! 🤘😎
This video is fake news, the 9A1 engine does not suffer from bore scoring or bearing failure.
Porsche fanboy.
This 9A1 engine had bore scoring and bearing failure, like many others. Whats your explanation for the damage? Fake fanboy 🤣😂
@@ManinaGarage As always its symptom & cause = bore scored because of bearing failure; clearly the question is what caused the bearing failure?The over-rev report would be a start point. As can be seen, apart from basic layout, there is no comparison to the earlier oft referenced 996 unit.