ENGINEER EXPLAINS WHY 2025 4RUNNER WILL HAVE ROLL-DOWN REAR WINDOW // 4 EVIDENCES FROM TEASER PHOTO
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- čas přidán 27. 03. 2024
- Will the 6th Gen 2025 Toyota 4Runner retain the unique roll-down rear window? Automotive Engineer David Chao explains why he believes that the 2025 4Runner will still have the roll-down rear window, based on the evidences he has gathered from studying the teaser photo. In fact, David goes into great depth about this scenario, and provides 4 key evidences why the iconic feature will remain for the new Gen 4Runner.
Automotive Press is owned and managed by David Koichi Chao, a global expert in the field of automotive evaluation, engineering, and strategy. With over 35 years of engineering experience, David is able to review vehicles from unique perspectives utilizing technical and specialized methods. David is a board member and a director at AJAC (Automobile Journalist Association of Canada).
David is known around the world as an authentic specialist of Lean/Agile Thinking, and travels all around the world to review vehicles and teach latest engineering methods. Born and raised in Japan, David has an engineering degree from University of British Columbia and post-graduate education from MIT and Harvard Business School in Boston. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
The 4Runner lettering on the tailgate is terrible.
It might be the autozone trim level 🤷🏻♂️
looks like they just cut and paste the letters from the 5th gen just with more spacing 😢
Kirk mentioned that on his channel as well and I agree. I preferred it on the piece above the license plate. Even would have preferred it embossed like the tailgates of the tundra
It's better than across the front of the hood, like Range Rover. It could be bigger across the back, like Telluride.
@@curtisdeboer8963 yeah embossed would have looked better… but I guess this is probably pretty easy to fix with some acetone or something
Am I biased or is it close to impossible for Toyota to make the new Gen more preferable over the 5th Gen. Seems like close to none of 4Runner fans wants a 4banger turbo or hybrid.
5th Gen is the last page of (Organic) SUV chapter.
meh 400+ FtLbs….. onboard battery already 🤷🏻♂️ this third gen owner will happily skip the 5th gen wet noodle
5th gen is amazing, just severely underpowered, something of which is something I do not look forward with at all.
I own a Toyota Venza (hybrid) . I kind of like it. What’s your beef with hybrid systems?
@@arhamkhakwani5851I don’t get people calling it underpowered. It’s faster than a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Hemi before they gave it the 8 speed auto.
I love my 5th gen. No plan to replace it.
I just hope it’s still manufactured in Japan and not Mexico, no offense to anyone but quality control in Mexico is horrible (example Tacoma)
Why can’t men these days speak their minds without saying “no offense”. Who cares?
My understanding is that the Mexican palants are at max production and it’s almost guaranteed the new 4Runner will be produced in Japan.
Also don’t apologize, it’s statistical fact that Toyota’s manufactured in Japan are of higher quality.
So racist of you
It's pretty much guaranteed to be Mexico given that the Prado now coming to NA will replace all of the 4Runner capacity in Tahara.
@RJ-vc2ju, not necessarily. After the land cruiser prado's pricing came out, some people will wait to see how to 4runner looks like exterior, interior, and price. No doubt the land cruiser prado will sell, but it's not going to touch 4runner sales numbers
Great engineering assessment as usual ! Great Channel, Great knowledge, great advice. Thank you! 🙏
David, Thanks for the analysis. All this discussion of roll-down or pop-up rear windows on the 4Runner and Land Cruiser leads to one question- why does the most expensive Lexus LX have neither? In any event, Rivian just introduced a new SUV with a roll down rear window so some people will keep living the dream. Our 1973 Caprice Estate, like all GM 'clam shell' wagons from 1971-76, had a roll up rear window! 😁
Maybe they purposely didn't show the window because it's not roll down and they don't want ppl getting pissed off so early
Good guess, but wrong .
@@Randal86 obviously now yea lol... I was going with that he initially said about his prediction about how he believes power rear window will be gone
@joek1978atyahoo I'm glad they kept it honestly. On my 5th gen it's served many utilities behond just looks. Toyota is great at listening to their customers feedback.
@@Randal86 me too.. I'm elated... But I'll most likely wait couple years for them to work out kinks especially probably with the turbo.... Besides I just got done paying off my 18... No car payments is real nice
By not showing the upper portion of the rear window, the release of this teaser image is perpetuating this discussion and speculation. It's brilliant marketing on Toyota's part as it's generating LOADS OF FREE MARKETING! TRD John, TFL, Kirk, and AutomotivePress, plus many other channels are all putting out 10 to 15 minutes videos based on this one single image and it's costing Toyota nothing in media costs - Gotta love free advertising! Hopefully what they save on ad costs, will mean a lower cost MSRP when this 4Runner finally goes on sale!
4runner with a slightly tweaked v6 and updated transmission would be perfect.
They should have the supercharger Magnusson system as a factory installed option for people obsessed with more power too. I don’t think it needs it but that would be a cool option some people want. 350 HP and 355 Torque
Giving the V6 direct injection would solve all problems immediately.
The 1UR-FE port injected only 4.6L V8 made 306 hp and 327 lb-ft The 1UR-FSE port AND direct injectey 4.6L V8 made 387 hp and 369 lb-ft.
Imagine the 4.0L went from 272 hp to 335 hp! That's what would happen if they added direct injection.
There's little business case to them doing that. The 4.0L is fast becoming a 4Runner-only engine globally. It makes much more sense for them to move to a corporate worldwide engine like the 2.4L. They could update the 1GR to the moon and put an 8-speed behind it and they would still only get it up to 18-19mpg combined, paying EPA CAFE penalties on it, and still having far less low-end torque than the turbocharged 2.4L. If anyone is curious if going to turbochargers kills offroad SUV sales, check out how the Wrangler and Bronco sell.
@@thatoneotherotherguy Actually Toyota is still producing the pre dual VVTI 4.0L, the one making 239 hp, for the 70 Series. It's insane that they still make that engine.
Great analysis David‼️
Hope they keep it. Better yet make it a tailgate with power window, like 1st gen. SoCal, HI and Florida markets won’t buy without it 🏄🏼♂️
I'm sure there's going to be 4 different ways to open the rear roll down window once it's unveiled. It is a 4runner after all lol
Thank you for sharing your thoughts from an engineers perspective.
And, no disrespect or offence intended, but only time will tell.
Patience will definitely be a virtue.
Thanks for the excellent analysis as usual and I do hope you are right. I like almost everything about this picture, the vertical orientation, the blocky taillights, the step bumper. Not a fan of the raised chrome lettering and lower reflectors. The letters are difficult to clean around and I personally find lower reflectors to be distracting from the actual lights when I’m driving behind such a car. My biggest worry is that the tag indentation and opening latch mechanism won’t allow enough space for a more vertical window to retract. A flip open window wouldn’t just save the cost of the mechanism but allow the tailgate to be thinner and save weight as well. Just have to keep hoping for the reveal.
The 2nd biggest question is where will it be made ?
I bet production will remain in Japan.
My dads station wagon had a roll down window.
I see now. It's supposed to be like dad's station wagon and not a modern SUV with automatic lift gates.
Just. can't wait to see the whole vehicle & how it squares of to the 250 Land cruiser in terms of looks & features.
hi dave, very good observations. It really makes you wonder if there will be a sliding rear window. I hope so. I'm still loving my 2016 4runner trail with kdss, though. It's going to be a tough call when they bring out this sixth gen if I'll trade mine in on one or not. Keep up the good work 👏
David, do you know why Toyota keeps putting the extend plastic piece protruding back at the edges of the bumpers? It's the same on the Tundra and Tacoma also. It's the part sticking back from the side of the vehicle at 2:35 in the video behind your red shaded triangle you drew.
Great video, as always!
Roll-down rear window or not, I'm still unconvinced that this upcoming 4runner and 250 LC can co-exist w/o cannibalizing each other.
The 250 LC will start at 55k. If the 4Runner starts in the low 40k's and can get close to the 250 LC on powertrain and creature comforts, the small differences (if there are any) in off-roadability won't justify such a price difference. I think more people will just buy the 4runner and skip the LC. The LC doesn't have a v6, 3rd row or any other significant differentiator to what the forthcoming 4runner is expected to offer.
This is more of a critique of the new LC than anything. The 4Runner will be great. But starting at 55k, the LC should've offered more. Shoppers shouldn't have to go to Lexus and pay a premium for what should've been in the LC to begin with.
Toyota just posted a video of the window rolling down on instagram!!
The renders look good
David, I have faith it maintains the roll down window based on the similar profile of the 5th gen tailgate. I use mine all the time for access and when the dog is in the back. Driving around with all the windows open in the summer can't be beat. The bumper on the other hand looks odd and my guess is depending on the model the bumper cover or bumper in general will be different. I absolutely love my 5th gen TRD PRO and I have three friends who have bought new 4Runners in the last year and feel the same way.
If the front end is like you've drawn and engineered in your predictions, I'm buying one!
Great assessment, David. I believe and hope you are correct. It would be hard to believe that the 4R would loose one of it's unique features. Toss in an opening Panoramic Moonroof and I would be happy.
They better the keep that window...I wll be so mad if not
If you put the current tailgate beside this one the profile is similar ie no steep angles to facilitate free movement of a window. Also the rear black bumper foothold/ trim seems "thin" to put your whole foot on leading one to think the tailgate has some more thickness.
I think you are right because the tailgate looks more vertical and like you said has less of a inward band at the bottom of the tailgate. Also I think they did not show a little higher up because maybe it still has the two buttons for up and down on the window and that would definitely give it away
Though I prefer it with the Tumdra TRD pro power plant or new GX, if they can deliver good torque and power ratios then I’m ok. No issues with a turbo hybrid as long as it delivers. I’m more concerned with the limited second row seat spacing based off the new Tacoma’s dimensions.
I suspect that you are correct about the window, since I believe the 4Runner lettering and placement on the tailgate is trying to mask that rear hatch is virtually identical to the gen 5 (including the window). What I can see of the new hatch is very similar.
The roll down window is a great feature but I have to say on my '06 with 200 plus thousand miles I only really roll that down a handful of times. I think a flip up with a locking mechanism on the strut would work just as well
You can’t operate the engine with the rear window down. It will suck in exhaust and potentially give you CO poisoning. It opens for loading only.
I recently traded my 2016 SR5 Premium for a new TRD ORP. Glad I did.
Hey David, good breakdown of the reasons why the roll-down window will stay for this generation. I bet $4 that there will be 4 teaser photos before the reveal date and I bet $25 that the 2025 model year 6th generation Toyota 4runner will be unveiled on Thursday (the 4th weekday of the week) April 25th. Hope to see more analysis videos coming as the 4runner gets more updates.
Hey David, update! You were right, the roll down window survives for the new 6th generation Toyota 4runner!
The rear window WILL roll down. The tail lights are not integrated into the rear door- dead giveaway!
I have to disagree with you there. MANY SUVs have raised rear windows instead of roll-down ones that do not have the tail light integrated into the liftgate.
@@BahamianLily Name one that rolls down the has integrated tail lights. The reason the Sequoia rear window no longer rolls down is because Toyota decided to integrate the tail light into the door.
The 1st and 2nd Gen Sequoias have integrated lights onto hatch and they have roll down windows.
I’m
Long time 4 runner owner sold mine in 2020 in the hype
I’m
Optimistic on the new one not so on turbo but I think it’s gonna be a winner
i wanted to get a 4runner but i know this will be massively overpriced like their tacoma's and tundras. Sad that they fell into the corporate greed camp.
there's always hope🤞maybe we'll get a TX hybrid powertrain, NA V6 😁
Do you think they will add a hatch that opens with the touch of a button. My wife can hardly lower the hatch on our present 4Runner because no 4Runners have this feature.
correct sir
David is right on the money on this one ☝️
Thank you!
As long as the window opens, I don't care if it rolls down or flips up. I have an FJ Cruiser with the flip up window, and my wife has a 21 4Runner with the roll down, so I've used both. Either way, you can haul 2x4s or other long items from Home Depot.
You can’t operate the 4Runner with the rear window open because of CO. The window opens so you can load items like groceries without opening the tailgate. With power lift gates there is no longer a need for this feature. You can’t operate any vehicle with the rear window or hatch open. You need a pickup.
It would be nice to find out the new 4Runner is badges as the mid level Land Cruiser; the underpinnings will be the same!
LC 1958, LC 4Runner, Land Cruiser
Please put this color on the 25 Tacoma!!🙏🙏
there is a reason why this channel got "so many" subscribers!
I hope you are right!
I'd be cool with getting rid of the roll down rear window if they gave us the split tailgate like the LC's of the past.
But the 1st gen had both a roll down window and a tailgate too. Would have been nice to see that, but still better to keep the roll down window than the pop out glass like the sequoia, gx, and lc 250
It does seem like the bulges and angles of this new tailgate are similar to the 5th gen, vs the Land Cruiser which seems to have a flatter tailgate. I am hoping for the roll-down window.
I predict they have kept the roll down window in the next gen as well. This is an iconic feature of the 4runner
I saw toyotausa reply to a comment in a way that makes me 100% the roll down stays. I think that they cut the photo off where they did was a tease because they know how important the feature is to the 4runner. I just wish they would get rid of the tramp stamp. I know I’ll remove it from mine if/when I get a 6th gen.
Reminds me of whenever new iPhones versions are predicted to come out we get a bit of info but it keeps us guessing😅😅
I don't see a hand latch at the bottom. I assume it's above the license plate.
Yes it will!
You did tell us before it won’t have the window because of safety concerns with the exhaust.
David do you think the new 4Runner will be built in Japan?
What’s with the tramp stamp?! 🤣 Getcher floss out …
It still has the rear window. I believe it still rolls down
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Hope they keep the roll down (but if the Tundra has it, then the 4 runner will too). But that plastic bumper made to look like chrome bumper makes the 4 runner look cheap...looks more like a toy rather then a big boy truck. also not a fan of the 1970's font they picked for the 4-runner badging
4runner should come with the new E-KDSS and V6 turbo but i doubt that because even the land cruiser doesnt have those options.. only the Lexus GX550
Got KDSS on my current ORDP 4runner. Must-have feature IMO.
Roll down window, yes. That will make some overlook the inevitable turbo four…
Reviews have been favorable in the Tacoma...but turbo lag is a thing... maybe the hybrid will be good?
If you look at the new Chevy Taho lift gate it looks similar to the 2025 4R lift gate, just saying.
I don’t think Toyota would even consider not going with a power roll down window with all the buzz about “It better have a roll down rear window” going around the internet.
Like he said, they got rid of it on the sequoia
@@371kennyI don’t think the word Sequoia was was in my comment
Plot twist. What if it’s a tailgate to allow removable hardtop like 1st gen.
They could have Stamp the lettering like the Tacoma tailgate
👍
Great analysis, too much red marks, a bit hard to follow
High chance the 6th Gen 4 Runner will still be made in Japan as the plant has been updated with no changes in hiring and training, including skilled technicians still keeping their jobs in Japan (according to industry articles in Japan)
About the roll down window, high probability it will remain as it’s an important feature on the 5th Gen, which has been a winner for Toyota Motors.
I want to believe your analysis, but you still owe me the Crew-Max Tacoma you predicted.
Do you think there will be a 2 door version as a throw back to the first gen for the 40 year anniversary of the 4 runner? It would also make it more competitive with the bronco and wrangler.
🙌🙌🙌🙌
CONFIRMED TOYOTA USA 3HRS AGO. Prediction correct.
The 4runner lettering is bad. Bad choice of font. Regarding the window, no way they give that feature to the 4runner and not the more expensive Land Cruiser. They are simplifying their production line and removing that achieves that.
I disagree. With the return of the LC, they need to differentiate the 4R from the LC, as the prices will be close and might even overlap. The roll down rear window stays with the new 4R and differentiates it, I predict.
I have owned a 2004 Sequoia since new. The roll down rear window has a design flaw. Its guide track mechanism rusts! The 4Runner’s mechanism is similar if not the same. Toyota has likely had grief with that design, so likely it disappears. It will save weight and reduce e cost.
That picture does not give me faith
It looks the same as the current gen. It looks like they just sharpened the lines.
Roll down window and I will digest the 4cyl.
Will this come out in my lifetime? I will start saving for the $10,000 dealer adjustment
Yes, unless Toyota is trolling.
SOMETHIN else to break
I'm not liking those lights in the bumper or the body coming out on the sides to meet the bumper, prevent you from stepping on the corner to get stuff from the top. I'd like to see the 4runner emblems stretched out more in black. From what I'm seeing I'm not liking it.
It needs an automatic tail gate.I don't understand why someone would want a roll down window over an automatic tailgate.
If youre too lazy to open & close a tailgate with your hands, then why are you driving a 4runner? Go buy a GX550 if you want creature comforts like that
@upperleftnorthwest4278 How about when you go camping and you're returning to your vehicle with a load of stuff in your hands. Also, how about when you're returning from shopping with your arms full of groceries.
However, if you're a gluten for punishment, continue to open the tailgate the hard way.
@@Black_Cats_Of_War you tell me why 100k 4runners are still being sold every year the last 10-15 years with minimal changes, power tailgate absent for all of those years. Like i said, if you can afford the additional price for a power tailgate then look elsewhere, like the GX550. If you truely value back to basics 4x4, then this aint for you.
@upperleftnorthwest4278 One thing you neglect to realize is I am not one of those people that are into 4 runners. I think they are excellent for rural areas but are not particle in the city and suburban areas where there's paved roads.
Also, the rear tailgate could be aluminum.
I WILL LET YOU GUYS KNOW IN 6 MONTHS HEHEHEHE😅😅😅
It's a cool feature. But practically speaking let's be honest. Flip up is more practical and convenient. Opens much faster for access to the back, if cargo sticks out in transit, the flip-up keeps it dryer. It's lighter for the entire door so less strain on the shocks. The window itself can be larger because it doesn't have to accommodate the rails, looks nice in the new land cruiser with the rear glass and thin rear pillars. More expensive to keep a roll down. So far no logical reason for retaining it, just nostalgia.
I suspect they're gonna copy the 2024 Land Cruiser and Lexus GX 550. If the window rolls down, I'd be pleasantly surprised. Besides, the rear of this 6th gen is giving Lexus GX 550. I'd need to see more "hints" or the whole damn thing before making a definitive opinion on its design, but...whatever this is, this ain't it!
My question, will the rear hatch still rust? Frame also?
This will be a disaster of a new gen IMO
NO TURBO please
Hi David,
I am very excited for the 2025 Toyota forerunner… I will consider purchasing one if they put a six cylinder in it but if they put a four-cylinder, I am making a lot of sacrifice purchasing a six cylinder. I definitely am not going to purchase a four-cylinder I drove four cylinders all through my teenage. Years and they just don’t last as long as an eight cylinder. It’s that simple but I would definitely go and see what they look like in the dealership and test drive one you never know right? I love getting your engineering perspective on things. I put them in my long-term memory, and I share them with my friends and I told him about the channel and I like bringing friends of mine throughout the United States to this channel. I’m so proud of you, DAVID and the way you have delivered the information to the world with the class and dignity, and God-given brilliance.🇯🇵🤍❤️🇨🇦
No V6.
Zero chance there will be a v6
Don't last as long? imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8076/nnhdzw.jpg
I think they are hiding it because there is no roll down window... Why start off with bad press. Keep people talking does it or doesn't it. Then when they release the whole image people won't be as upset. In the end it will be a rebadged Land Cruiser... Toyota unfortunately got too tricky will all these SUV variants. GX, Land Cruiser, and now 4runner.
Hmmmm not sure
calm down you needs
While reliable the 6 cylinder engine sucked 😮
Mine runs great and gets good mpg for what it is.
Im going 99% no roll down window a: cost b: weight c: cost ..oh wait i already said cost .... d: cost ... dammm i did it again
That “4Runner” badge is so tacky looking. Poor placement, and too big. Looks horrible. Hopefully this does not make it to production in this weird location.
Unless Toyota knock it out of the park with this costing less than $45k, with front and rear lockers, solid axles, manual transmission - then this will go down as another North American inspired piece of c$%p like the new Sequoia, Tacoma, and Tundra. I can't help but feel that Toyota NA is having too much influence and will end up killing the heritage of Toyota off-road. What I wouldn't give for Toyota to make a Wrangler-type FJ40 true to its heritage, no-nonsense off-roader / adventure vehicle. No need to constantly reinvent itself, just call it the FJ40, change the model year, and be happy happy selling 40-50 thousand globally until the end of time.
A fat loaf of bread grocery wagon.