I mean talking of hitting, they are at the same class I guess. But to put them in the fielding, throwing, and running discussion, by far, ichiro is the best
Do you know who Pete rose was before he got aqquited rose could play any position and get gold gloves at them all let alone the absolute drive of the man
@Chris P Lol 😆 Your ludicrous comment made me laugh out loud! Ichiro hit a two-run homerun off Hall of Fame closer Mariano Rivera in the bottom of the 9th inning when the score was 2-1 in favor of the Yankees. Ichiro hit a homerun off Rivera to win the game for the Mariners. You can look up a video of this homerun on CZcams, and you can also watch videos on CZcams of Ichiro getting hits off other Hall of Fame pitchers such as Randy Johnson.
I don't know who is a better player, but Ichiro is definitely in the same level as Pete Rose and Ty Cobb. Ichiro has the best batting average/ most hits in a single season in MLB. He came over here and won the rookie of the year and the MVP. Nobody in MLB except Ichiro has 10 consecutive seasons with 200 hits or more.
in an Era where a quality pitching performance is a 4.50 ERA 6 innings 3 earned runs is considered a quality start." "In baseball, a quality start is a statistic for a starting pitcher defined as a game in which the pitcher completes at least six innings and permits no more than three earned runs. The quality start was developed by sportswriter John Lowe in 1985 while writing for the Philadelphia Inquirer".
As opposed to what? ty cob played during an offensive boom too in his second half, pete wasted 8 years in the majors past his prime to desperately catch up. Ichiro is better and waas more consistent in his prime
You just got your one-hundred-and-thirty-seventh “thumb’s up” from me for what it was that you said in your comment and it’s a GREAT, BIG, HUMONGOUS one too!!! I’m thinking you’re right about that! LOL!!!
Reasonable Guy Ichiro 10 200 hit season in 18 years. Rose 10 Number of season with less than 200 but more than 150 - Ichiro 2 Rose 8 No of seasons less than 150 and over 100. Ichiro 2 Rose. 5*. ( 1981 strike shortened season Rose led league with 140 hits ) number seasons under 100 hits. Ichiro. 3 Rose 1 ( player/manager) hits per 162 game season. Ichiro 189. Rose. 194. Winner. Rose. END OF DISCUSSION unless you want to get bitchslapped with stats some more
@@2AForever-wi8yj 10 200 hit seasons from age 27-36. If he had played in MLB in his early prime 22-26 years he would have had at least 150 hits in those years and probably even 200 hits in some. If Ichiro retired at 38 (fairly standard retirement age) he would have never had a season less than 175 hits. The only thing your stats show is that Ichiro decided not to retire even when his age turned him into an average player.
Remember the year the Mariners won 117 games? Well, in the playoffs those Yankee pitchers shut Ichiro down by pitching him high and inside. Ichiro was helpless. Rose, on the other hand, led the big red machine to three championships while playing five positions.
If Ichiro started playing for the Mariners 7 years before he did IRL he would’ve gave at least 5 thousand hits and Ken Griffey Jr. would have about 5 rings right now
There is no proof that he would have been in the majors at 18. The only 2 players I can think of the that stepped out of high school to the majors are Kaline and Yount. Ichiaro came here in his prime .Everyone is projecting his prime years when almost every player has to play in the minors Rose was an all star at 3rd and 2nd.
@@Gnofg but easily at 22 like most who get drafted out of college. that's still 5 years of playing. Also Ichiro's hit numbers in Japan stabilized at his 3rd season, but still played another 6 years in the NPB level where his numbers didn't change much, which many claim is triple-A equivalent too, so he couldn't have really had mlb level experience to develop him in to so called "prime" like many other MLB players for generally got to experience from 22. Also talking about prime on Ichiro is kind of not sensible because from 1994 to 2010 his batting average did not go below 0.300
Ichiro hit .311 for his career hitting nearly all infield singles. He’s so far from the greatest hitter around it’s not even funny. Vlad Guerrero hit .318 with a career .379 OBP and he’s nowhere near the best hitter of all time, nor is he ever mentioned in these types of conversations. And I haven’t even mentioned the difference in power between these two players. It’s downright obnoxious to put Ichiro in any greatest hitters of all time conversation.
@@HT-sm9dm has anyone recorded 200+ hits for 10 consecutive seasons and recorded a hit of 262 a season? His batting average was north of .300 for 10 consecutive seasons and recorded 4 seasons with north of .350. Who has done that? No one ever.
End of discussion right there. Then count in the 200+ for 10 consecutive seasons, and 262 hits a season. It's overkill, not counting everything else outside of hitting.
This is a stupid question. For anyone who truly knows what they are talking about when it comes to baseball, Pete rose Was not a better overall player than ichiro and to be honest it's not even close. #1 Pete changed the game give credit where credit is due, but even if you didn't count ichiros hits in japan rose isn't a better player than ichiro. Also seems like anyone who tries to make the argument rose was a better player never seems to be able to back up their statement. Not with logic, statistics or facts like Donavan where he was getting all flustered haha
I call B.S. on what you just said. How many people could be an all-star at 5 different positions in their career? You have no logic, stats or facts to back up your argument. Rose was every bit as good as Ichiro, just different.
How many 300 game winners did Pete Rose face? How many 300 game winners has Ichiro faced? You know darn well Pete faced way more. In today's era Pete would get 1,000 plus hits more. And unlike you, I readily acknowledge Ichiro as an all-time great athlete and player
i vote for Rose and ill back my argument up with facts. Since the 90's MLB is MUCH more hitter friendly. Smaller strikezones, pitchers reluctant to throw inside, worse pitchers because of watered down players (more teams today equals many MLB players today wouldnt even be in MLB years ago) a juiced up baseball....i could go on and on.
Ichiro had 3 hole power. He truly did. But ichiro has the most amazing ability to hit the ball where he wants. He had amazing speed as well. Classic ichiro hit was right over the shortstop’s head into no man’s land and he’s standing on first base.
Unless he got hurt or maybe even discouraged. You never really know. I think he could've but those 9 seasons in Japan prepared him for the MLB. Maybe 4 years too many.
@@johnnythunder196 but he wasn’t so he didn’t. No one played with the intensity a “Charlie Hustle.” He was so versatile. Playing many different positions. And a switch hitter!
@@Gustav_Kuriga Yet you discount Pete's minor league hits, which last time I checked were done in a "professional" league. Clearly you are able to make the distinction that "professional" does not mean "equal".
@@jamie49868 You see, that's a false equivalency. You're trying to equate NPB with something like Single A, Double A, or Triple A. When the situation is more like comparing English Premier League with Bundesliga. Which one has the better players is more of an opinion rather than a factual statement because of how close the skill levels are, and the different styles of play.
@@Gustav_Kuriga It's not subjective. The minors produce hundreds of MLB players each year. Japanese a couple. Meaning that Pete faced many of his minor league peers in MLB after he/they broke in. How many peers did Ichro face? Then there is the fact that NPB is where washed up major leaguers go to dominate, so much so that they have limits. So there is that as an indication of talent. You introduced "professional", and now you want to alter the meaning. When you have to change the meaning of words you introduce to support your argument, that means your argument is losing. Pete has more "professional" hits, and against demonstrably better competition the entirety of his career. Peace
@@GobaGNon Ichiro came here in his prime. You can't assume that he would have had the same production. Ichiro like almost every player would have had to play in the minors. The only two I can think of who went straight to the MLB from high school are Kaline and Yount.
I don't understand why McNabb said he was on a bad Seattle team. Not only did they get 115 wins, but anyways on a bad team you wouldn't get as many at bats.
Yeah but he played from 1905 to 1928. It's not like the quality of the average player at the time was where it is now. It was also segregated. I have a really hard time buying the hyper elevated status of all the very old timers.
@@michaelb6349 Haven't you heard the quote from Ty Cobb in the early 1960s where they asked him how he would do in today's game. He said he would hit in the .200s. They asked why. He said well because I'm 72 years old. (Something like that from memory was in the movie) Basically saying he was not impressed.
+Tecknowledgist says: "To answer her question: no, you can't put them in the same class. Ichiro is a future hall-of-famer and Pete Rose is not. ;)" == Well, unless Ichiro starts gambling on baseball and gets caught. It can happen. Who knows?
flamingobandit says: "only held back by MLB's ignorance (; nice try buddy" == It was his own creation. www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14365554/pete-rose-remains-banned-major-league-baseball-per-commissioner-rob-manfred-decision You didn't know this?
The reason why Ichiro is awesome is he reached the milestone in the USA as Japanese. Imagine. Wouldn't it be difficult to achieve such a fantastic goal in an unfamiliar environment? Language, culture, food, everything is different. Most people cannot consider this point. It goes without saying that Pete is also worthy of praise, but he seems to have lost himself. He should have respected Ichiro. Since Ichiro spotlighted you again. Don't you think so? Both of them are no doubt awesome!
Mcnabb comes off as one of those obnoxious high school punks. One of those people where you tell him the sky is blue and he says no its green. No donavan its blue. Donavan: nope its green its green green green green na na na. Ichiro is a far better overall player than pete rose. Its not even close. Tim mccarver said it best " Hes the best outfield since clemente"
Pete Rose just recently said as Ichiro has currently 4255 hits (1278 Japan and 2977) that the Japanese media is making him out to be a "hit Queen" of baseball instead of hit King. Sorry, Pete you're still not going to Cooperstown and Ichiro will make you into his "hit Bitch" soon enough.
Rose brought more to the table than his numbers show. A lot of intangibles with Rose that helped any team he was on. And also Rose was racking up his hits and was at his best winning batting titles in the era of the pitcher,1960s! Facing Marichal, Koufax ,Seaver , Perry,Gibson , etc and hitting way above league average . every year. Any team was better for having Pete on it
Forget his Japanese career. Just in the MLB alone hes a first ballot hall of famer. Compared to an overall player Ichiro is a much better player than Pete Rose. IMO Ichiro is one of the top 10 best OVERALL players in MLB history. Also Pete Roses comments to USA today saying that the "MLB should count his minor league hits" are you insane pete? Its hard to take anything Donavan says seriously. He seems childish/& truly upset. Donavan "I won" What did you win Donavan?
Same class sure. Awesome future HOF. Let's leave it at that. Because when you look at Ty Cobbs offensive stats, fielding stats and baserunning stats he starts to clearly stand apart from any player who ever played baseball. He still has records intact after over 100 years of baseball for a reason. The only player as fast as Cobb from home to first was Mickey Mantle in his early years.
Im sorry but its a total different era, and pitchers back then were great but pitchers now a days are more evolve. You cant put ichiro and pete rose in the same class, because ichiro is above that class, he is a hitting machine, and his bat control and eye sight is uncanny
I'll take Aaron and Mays any day. Both hit for power and had high averages. Mays was a great base stealer and could play SS. I saw him do it. Aaron could also steal bases.
PUPS...The Big Red Machine was an iconic team...you transcend the game when everyone knows your team's nickname 40 years later...Rose was the main cog, tying the NL hit streak record at 44
By not bringing Ichiro's Japanese baseball years, then you still have to admit that Ichiro's career started when he was 27 or 28. For him to reach 3,000 hits starting at that age as well as break the seasonal hit record, the seasonal road hits record, the 10 consecutive 200+ hits record, etc., makes it impossible to say he is not in the same class as Rose and Cobb. Plus pitching is much more a science now than it was in Rose's day and certainly in Cobb's. I agree with what the one guy is saying: we don't need to bring in the Japanese years simply because if he had played those years in the MLB, he would own records out of this world simply because it's obvious that he could play not only in the MLB but at a higher level than just anybody else who played with or against him. He hit the best pitchers the MLB had to offer. None of them owned him. As one infielder said, every Ichiro at-bat was a fire-drill. And we're not even talking about his incredible speed and defensive play.
Pitching may be more of a science but we do not know how Ichiro would have reacted to Gibson and Drysdale throwing under his chin. Pitchers were mean back then and more similar to the meanness of the 1920"s. By the time the 90's rolled around baseball was not as mean as the sixties.
I love how people are comparing japanese baseball to AAA but then someone like ichiro who decides he wants to play in MLB tears up the show. Same thing with shohei for the angels lol
If Pete Rose can steal a base in under three seconds, or throw from the outfield, and nail a runner going home, and have the greatest number of hits in a season in MLB history, all with an abbreviated length of time in MLB...baseball played in the modern era is different now, pitchers routinely throwing in the mid nineties...then, there's room for comparison...otherwise, the numbers do speak for themselves.
+Jason Smith also think about this I mean you are pitchers throw into the mid 90's consistently however they barely complete games they go 5-6 innings and out the game. Pete had to face a Gaylord Perry for 8-9 innings.Ichiro is a great hitter but imagine what Charlie Hustle would have gotten had he just batted right handed. #top 5 Rose, Gwynn, Ichiro, Carew, Boggs
Yeah, pitchers haven't gotten any help from the rules for years. I would say the pitching was much harder for batters to face in Roses day... More substances to change ball rotation, spit balls were pretty common, umps were just worse in general, and you'd get thrown out now a days for pitching a batter inside to make him back off the plate.
Yeah that’s true... but i believe ichiro and Pete rose had different play styles. Furthermore Ichiro was a better defensive player and a faster player. The stats you are comparing Ichiro and Pete Rose to are subjective. They are both talented players and their is really no point of making an argument to which is better. They both played in different ERA’s and both had different play styles.
You claim that stats are there but Ichiro did not play his prime in Japan not to mention if you make the argument that Pete rose had better career stats than Ichiro in last 19 years well then I could make the argument that Ichiro had a shorter period of time to face mlb pitchers and yes the stats are subjective. Do some research on Ichiro and his mentality in the game. He did what was best for the team and he hit singles on purpoae he wasn’t looking to get better stats. And I believe Ichiro had 10 gold gloves and his arm is incredible not to mention he has the fastest time from home to first. Also Ichiro went up in the box and he had a goal in mind to hit the pitchers best pitch ie. slider curve fastball so on
Nonetheless Pete Rose may have been the better hitter but Ichiro was the better hit maker. Also Ichiro fielding and Pete rose fielding are not close. Ichiro was by far the better fielder without a doubt. If you can’t admit that there is no point of arguing with you. Not to mention Ichiro was from a foreign country and had to break some sort of a barrier like on a smaller scale of Jackie Robinson. He had to prove that’ Asians can be position players in the mlb. Again as I restate my argument there is no point of arguing for the players on which is better. They both have their respective traits and their play styles are different.
I made an excuse u don’t seem to be making an argument for the article I’m sorry if your feeling are hurt I respected ur opinion and u seem to only focus on offense and not only the defense and the fact Ichiro can stela basses
He's undebatebley a better athlete...... Better arm ... faster.... More style and grace.... Also a more respectable person . Imo..... Ichiro also hustled hard as well as anyone who ever played the game..... even though he doesn't get enough credit for it... People in the game know..... It's just the ignorant prejudice media types , who don't appreciate what he did imo.....
Ichiro started his career at the end of the steroid era. Pete Rose played during a time where starting pitchers would tone down their intensity a bit in order to throw longer and deeper into games. The pitchers did not throw as hard. The relievers did not throw as hard. The defenders were not as fast. There is a whole list of reasons why you cannot compare the two.
I think you're saying the competition is better today than it was then. Is that what you're saying? Forget it. They've done everything they can to stymie the pitcher in today's game. It's all about offense; just like in football and basketball. Juiced balls (and players). Smaller ballparks. Smaller strike zone. Don't allow pitchers to throw inside. And you think the competition is better today?
I like how Andy brings up that stat and then Donovan like all these old timers always brings up that different era argument. Didn’t start off the convo by saying Ty Cobb hitting 700 doubles? Did that happen last year?
I would much prefer to have Pete Rose on my team. What the panel (minus McNabb) seem to be missing is how many times Ichiro led the league in At Bats, therefore increasing his hit totals. Rose had about twice as many doubles and 40 more triples (despite having no speed). Why is that significant? Because he gets himself in scoring position more often that Ichiro, who is basically a slap hitter. That's why Rose had about 700 more runs scored than Ichiro. And I'm pretty sure the point of offensive baseball is scoring runs.
I know one person who thinks he isn't Pete Rose's equivalent - Pete Rose. An argument can be made though. If Ichiro had the ABs that Rose did, then he could actually have more hits. As far as fielder, don't get mad people but Ichiro was not just better but much, much better. 10, yes 10 Gold gloves to Pete's 2. And you cannot even compare the arms. Ichiro had one of the best arms ever, as in ever in the history of the game. So as weird or odd as it sounds, you could make the argument that Ichiro was every bit as good. Maybe better. A shame he couldn't have gotten those 5,000 more ABs
Rose played in an era when pitching was different. In Rose's era, starting pitchers were expected to 'eat' innings and throw deep into the game. That gave hitters a better chance to adjust and face a tired arm pitcher in the latter innings. Ichiro played in today's era of pitching, where starters work 5 or 6 innings and then hand the ball over to middle relief pitchers and closers. It's harder on a hitter now because they're always facing fresh arms and it's not as easy to get 'used' to a pitcher.
Rose faced hall of fame pitchers. His era of pitching was incredible. From Sandy to Gibson. You can go on and on with the great pitchers he faced. Put them in todays game and they would win awards.
Rose on the diamond was a hit machine. Always trying to get on base no matter the situation and he hit to all fields and also unlike what haters say on here was a good defensive outfielder in his day.
if ichiro's slugging was like .480 or better for his career, he would be the perfect baseball player. Arm, glove,speed, and contact hitting are at the highest level.
If he started in the MLB, people like Donovan McNabb would say... "Well he's Asian,you know...and Pete Rose is Caucasian. If Ichiro was Caucasian, he might not have hit as well, you know what I mean? Maybe he would, we would never know. Hence, it doesn't count."
Ichiro skill wise is the best hitter to ever live pete rose is close and has the stats and mlb test of time but lets think here did pete rose play til he was 45? Add ichiros age 20-27 seasons to his major league career and he would have blown pete rose out of the water. People just suckoff american sports because its american sports. Nobody is saying his japan hits should counts, but give ichiro 5 or 6 more years its not even close
Trout isn’t anywhere near ichiro or rose there is more to baseball then homeruns just saying there is a reason majority who actually played baseball Have Mays over Ruth for a lot of reasons and Griffey they were BETTER ALL AROUND PLAYERS THEY DID EVERYTHING BETTER THEN A GUY KNOWN FOR HOMERUNS IM JEUT SAYING
I realize Donovan "Glug-Glug" McNabb was just playing his part on this segment, but come on. Pete Rose's record was due in large part to his longevity. Great ballplayer for sure. I'm not taking that away from him. But Ichiro didn't get to the big leagues until he was, what, 28? I'm not saying he should be credited for 4,000 hits as a major leaguer, because obviously, the Japanese leagues are not "Major Leagues" by any standard. Ty Cobb played a hundred years ago in a different era. The competition was not nearly as good. The rules were different. Please don't get me wrong! Ty Cobb was one of the best to ever play and he would be a superstar in any era. But would he have posted a .367 (.366?) lifetime average? I doubt it. Would he have gotten 4189 hits? I doubt it. How would he have done against Bob Gibson, Dwight Gooden, or Pedro Martinez? How would he have fared in an era where the average big league pitcher has a fastball in the nineties? (Google it.) How would he do in an era where none of the players have to work in the offseason and consequently get to spend all their time focusing on becoming better baseball players? My answer is he would've been a superstar -- a perennial all star, a first-ballot hall-of-famer -- but he wouldn't have put up the insane lifetime numbers he did. He would've fit right in with the Joe Dimmagios, the Ted Williams, the Willie Mays, the Carl Yastrzemskis, the Ichiros, the Reggie Jacksons, the Manny Ramirezes, and the Derek Jeters of the baseball world. The ridiculous numbers put up before the forties and fifties are great, and those guys deserve our respect, but the lower half of the players on those teams wouldn't even make major league rosters today.
@@georgeprchal3924 Here are the rocket arms. Johnny Callison of the Phillies, Carl Furillo(the rifle) of the Brooklyn Dodgers and Roberto Clemente of the Pirates. Callison and Clemente would trade the league leader in assists every year.( around 20).
even though I do think Ichiro is top 5 or even top 3 hitters of all time part of me feels he wouldnt be at 4000 hits if he started in MLB. if you look at his career AVG in Japan it was .358. and when he moved here his career AVG in MLB is .315 but another part of me says if he did come here earlier he woulda surpasses 4000 some time ago cause he picked up MLB pitchers fast I mean 200 hits in 10 straight seasons the drop in AVG in MLB might be due to his getting older and hitting form going down
I know that many people believe that pete rose is one of the best hitters ever but he wasnt. He was one of thhe best contact hitters but not nearly on ichiros level. Pete Rose is the hit king because he leads the MLB in games played and at bats all time. He was ultra durable but i would not put him in the same league as ty cobb and ichiro
Donovan McNabb must’ve had ond too many concussions during his football playing days to say that Ichiro Suzuki isn’t in the same league as a hitter as Pete Rose and Ty Cobb. I can only fathom what Ichiro would’ve accomplished if he didn’t spend those nine years playing in Japan and played them in Major League Baseball instead. He may have taken the all-time hit record away from Rose.
How many players came out of high school to the majors? I can only think of two. Kaline and Yount. You can not project what Ichiro did in his prime to what he would have done in his formative years. We also don't know what ichiro would have done when Gibson and Drysdale flattened him.. How would Ichiro reacted when in those days pitchers were mean and pitched inside.
This is Peter Dinardo Icirhiro was a great player but no comparison to Pete rose Pete was an all star first baseman and third baseman also he was a catalyst on both championship teams Pete rose was what every kid wanted. To be the best hitter me and my generation ever saw
10straight seasons over 200hits. 265 in a season. Won MVP in his rookie year. Yes not just in the same class with Rose.... to Pete mover over that dude is the hit king. And that’s without mentioning base-stealing and defense 10 gold gloves
I'm not sure you can compare baseball in Japan to football in Canada.. The CFL is were people who couldnt get drafted go to play. Japan takes baseball extremely seriously just as several latin American countries do. tons of prospects come from outside the U.S. when it comes to baeball.. not so for football because not many other countries take that sport seriously. Idk the fact that ichiro didnt come to the majors until he was almost 30 and still produced as much as he did for as long as he did, had he had the other 9 years he would have made 4000 easy. that's not to say he was already past his prime by come here but starting at 28 he certainly left some of his most productive years in japan. Dude is the goat is all I'm saying.
Love_Morphine "Don't get me wrong. We should not judge a player's records based on which races he's been playing against most. Each legendary player played with the best players who qualifies to stay in the big league at the time he's active." ....I can agree with that. All is good then. Perhaps I misunderstood before. I just take offense when imply that Rose's era wasn't diverse and that people disregard what Rose did based either on his color, the false perceived color of his era, or they hate him for the gambling.
I mean talking of hitting, they are at the same class I guess. But to put them in the fielding, throwing, and running discussion, by far, ichiro is the best
Oh c’mon🤦♂️
Ichiro was a slap ball speedster, we missed his 18-24 years where he had his most speed. Ichiro didn’t have a bad season until after 36 or 37.
Do you know who Pete rose was before he got aqquited rose could play any position and get gold gloves at them all let alone the absolute drive of the man
Running discussion? 😂
@Chris P Lol 😆 Your ludicrous comment made me laugh out loud! Ichiro hit a two-run homerun off Hall of Fame closer Mariano Rivera in the bottom of the 9th inning when the score was 2-1 in favor of the Yankees. Ichiro hit a homerun off Rivera to win the game for the Mariners. You can look up a video of this homerun on CZcams, and you can also watch videos on CZcams of Ichiro getting hits off other Hall of Fame pitchers such as Randy Johnson.
Gary jumping out of his seat defending Ichiros honor. #Seattle
Gary Payton is an idiot with those statements.
If the glove don't fit
I just got (chanel) here. Ichigo is the best MLB player in the WORLD. For sure. Better than Rosiiii.😁
I don't know who is a better player, but Ichiro is definitely in the same level as Pete Rose and Ty Cobb. Ichiro has the best batting average/ most hits in a single season in MLB. He came over here and won the rookie of the year and the MVP. Nobody in MLB except Ichiro has 10 consecutive seasons with 200 hits or more.
And it doesn't even include steals and 10 gold gloves he won
Not only did Ichiro have 10 consecutive seasons with 200 hits or more, he also has 10 consecutive seasons with a batting average of .300 or higher.
Ty Cobb, Pete Rose and Ichiro will be uttered in the same breath forever.
in an Era where a quality pitching performance is a 4.50 ERA 6 innings 3 earned runs is considered a quality start." "In baseball, a quality start is a statistic for a starting pitcher defined as a game in which the pitcher completes at least six innings and permits no more than three earned runs. The quality start was developed by sportswriter John Lowe in 1985 while writing for the Philadelphia Inquirer".
As opposed to what? ty cob played during an offensive boom too in his second half, pete wasted 8 years in the majors past his prime to desperately catch up. Ichiro is better and waas more consistent in his prime
Ichiro has a better arm than Mcnabbs.
no question
Lol
You just got your one-hundred-and-thirty-seventh “thumb’s up” from me for what it was that you said in your comment and it’s a GREAT, BIG, HUMONGOUS one too!!! I’m thinking you’re right about that! LOL!!!
True and I was born in philly .
Fact!
"Pete Rose had 10 200 hit seasons in 24 years, Ichiro had 200 hit seasons in 10 straight years"
- End of discussion right there.
Reasonable Guy Ichiro 10 200 hit season in 18 years. Rose 10
Number of season with less than 200 but more than 150 - Ichiro 2 Rose 8
No of seasons less than 150 and over 100. Ichiro 2 Rose. 5*. ( 1981 strike shortened season Rose led league with 140 hits ) number seasons under 100 hits. Ichiro. 3 Rose 1 ( player/manager)
hits per 162 game season. Ichiro 189. Rose. 194. Winner. Rose. END OF DISCUSSION unless you want to get bitchslapped with stats some more
@@2AForever-wi8yj 10 200 hit seasons from age 27-36. If he had played in MLB in his early prime 22-26 years he would have had at least 150 hits in those years and probably even 200 hits in some. If Ichiro retired at 38 (fairly standard retirement age) he would have never had a season less than 175 hits. The only thing your stats show is that Ichiro decided not to retire even when his age turned him into an average player.
Remember the year the Mariners won 117 games? Well, in the playoffs those Yankee pitchers shut Ichiro down by pitching him high and inside. Ichiro was helpless. Rose, on the other hand, led the big red machine to three championships while playing five positions.
Pete rose hits were against better pitching
@Sipseyhiker You got that right! Rose is a better hitter than Ichiro
Ichiro is a legend. One of my favorite players ever. Can't wait to see him in the HoF.
MLB- 162games
NPB(Japanese baseball league) -143games
That's why only one season Ichiro reached over 200hits during his career in Japan.
If Ichiro started playing for the Mariners 7 years before he did IRL he would’ve gave at least 5 thousand hits and Ken Griffey Jr. would have about 5 rings right now
There is no proof that he would have been in the majors at 18. The only 2 players I can think of the that stepped out of high school to the majors are Kaline and Yount. Ichiaro came here in his prime .Everyone is projecting his prime years when almost every player has to play in the minors Rose was an all star at 3rd and 2nd.
@@Gnofg but easily at 22 like most who get drafted out of college. that's still 5 years of playing. Also Ichiro's hit numbers in Japan stabilized at his 3rd season, but still played another 6 years in the NPB level where his numbers didn't change much, which many claim is triple-A equivalent too, so he couldn't have really had mlb level experience to develop him in to so called "prime" like many other MLB players for generally got to experience from 22. Also talking about prime on Ichiro is kind of not sensible because from 1994 to 2010 his batting average did not go below 0.300
It's Ichiro for me. Greatest hitter around, and a great guy on and off the field.
Ichiro hit .311 for his career hitting nearly all infield singles. He’s so far from the greatest hitter around it’s not even funny. Vlad Guerrero hit .318 with a career .379 OBP and he’s nowhere near the best hitter of all time, nor is he ever mentioned in these types of conversations. And I haven’t even mentioned the difference in power between these two players.
It’s downright obnoxious to put Ichiro in any greatest hitters of all time conversation.
@@HT-sm9dm has anyone recorded 200+ hits for 10 consecutive seasons and recorded a hit of 262 a season? His batting average was north of .300 for 10 consecutive seasons and recorded 4 seasons with north of .350. Who has done that? No one ever.
Agrred. Ichiro is the reason I have been an Aussie M's fan for over 20 years
"The Glove" Gary Payton is a beast. I miss that guy! Seattle needs their basketball team back!
Payton should stick to basketball and leave baseball to people who know.
Ichiro's BA in MLB is .311 (.312 if he'd retired in 2017), Rose's .303. Rose hit .340 once (.348 in 1969), Ichiro hit .350 or higher FOUR times.
End of discussion right there. Then count in the 200+ for 10 consecutive seasons, and 262 hits a season. It's overkill, not counting everything else outside of hitting.
Ichiro had more hits in one season than anyone else. He has a stronger arm. He is faster.
Pete played more positions at an all star level. As great as Ichiro was who would you take Aaron or Mays. I know who I am taking.
Faster than who? Pete Rose sure maybe. Not Ty Cobb, not Mickey Mantle, etc etc.
This is a stupid question. For anyone who truly knows what they are talking about when it comes to baseball, Pete rose Was not a better overall player than ichiro and to be honest it's not even close. #1 Pete changed the game give credit where credit is due, but even if you didn't count ichiros hits in japan rose isn't a better player than ichiro. Also seems like anyone who tries to make the argument rose was a better player never seems to be able to back up their statement. Not with logic, statistics or facts like Donavan where he was getting all flustered haha
I call B.S. on what you just said. How many people could be an all-star at 5 different positions in their career? You have no logic, stats or facts to back up your argument. Rose was every bit as good as Ichiro, just different.
Guess you never checked out the pitching Pete faced in the 1960's and 70s. He faced better pitchers, including arguably the best ever, Koufax.
How many 300 game winners did Pete Rose face? How many 300 game winners has Ichiro faced? You know darn well Pete faced way more. In today's era Pete would get 1,000 plus hits more. And unlike you, I readily acknowledge Ichiro as an all-time great athlete and player
i vote for Rose and ill back my argument up with facts. Since the 90's MLB is MUCH more hitter friendly. Smaller strikezones, pitchers reluctant to throw inside, worse pitchers because of watered down players (more teams today equals many MLB players today wouldnt even be in MLB years ago) a juiced up baseball....i could go on and on.
Pete was an all star at 5 different positions.
Ichiro had 3 hole power. He truly did. But ichiro has the most amazing ability to hit the ball where he wants. He had amazing speed as well. Classic ichiro hit was right over the shortstop’s head into no man’s land and he’s standing on first base.
I like his No man land bunts, and lots of crazy infield hits.
I guarantee if Ichirō was born in America and started his career in US, he would be the all-time hit leader. DEFINITELY.
Unless he got hurt or maybe even discouraged. You never really know. I think he could've but those 9 seasons in Japan prepared him for the MLB. Maybe 4 years too many.
Not
If he was born in the US he probably would have been too soft to even make the majors
@@johnnythunder196 good point. He's probably be in Silicon Valley or some gender neutral house music DJ
@@johnnythunder196 but he wasn’t so he didn’t. No one played with the intensity a “Charlie Hustle.” He was so versatile. Playing many different positions. And a switch hitter!
Love Seattle icon GP defending fellow Seattle icons.
Doubles???? Lol, really mcscrub? What is a stolen base? Two bases....lol.. imagine if ichiro had the most ab's ever....
We don't count "ifs". Ichiro has done plenty. Rose has done more.
@@jamie49868 Only if you completely discount what Ichiro did in Japan, and thus don't count that as a professional league.
@@Gustav_Kuriga Yet you discount Pete's minor league hits, which last time I checked were done in a "professional" league.
Clearly you are able to make the distinction that "professional" does not mean "equal".
@@jamie49868 You see, that's a false equivalency. You're trying to equate NPB with something like Single A, Double A, or Triple A. When the situation is more like comparing English Premier League with Bundesliga. Which one has the better players is more of an opinion rather than a factual statement because of how close the skill levels are, and the different styles of play.
@@Gustav_Kuriga It's not subjective. The minors produce hundreds of MLB players each year. Japanese a couple.
Meaning that Pete faced many of his minor league peers in MLB after he/they broke in. How many peers did Ichro face?
Then there is the fact that NPB is where washed up major leaguers go to dominate, so much so that they have limits. So there is that as an indication of talent.
You introduced "professional", and now you want to alter the meaning. When you have to change the meaning of words you introduce to support your argument, that means your argument is losing.
Pete has more "professional" hits, and against demonstrably better competition the entirety of his career. Peace
Three great American athletes talking about Ichiro makes me feel so emotional.
Ichiro deserves to be considered equal. He reached 3000 hits, and he was 27 years old when he entered the Majors. That speaks for itself
No he doesn’t. He didn’t play near as hard as “Charlie Hustle.”
Ichiro’d have beat Pete Rose’s record for sure
@@ronwright3242 I don’t think you’re understanding how much 6 or 7 seasons can do when you average near 200 hits per season
@@GobaGNon Ichiro came here in his prime. You can't assume that he would have had the same production. Ichiro like almost every player would have had to play in the minors. The only two I can think of who went straight to the MLB from high school are Kaline and Yount.
Ichiro played 10 season straight getting 200+ hits and he hold the record for most hits in one season 262.
Ichiro didn’t face Gibson, Drysdale, Ryan, Koufax, Seaver, and many other Hall of Fame pitchers.
Thank you Gary Payton!!!
I don't understand why McNabb said he was on a bad Seattle team. Not only did they get 115 wins, but anyways on a bad team you wouldn't get as many at bats.
Ty Cobb hit .401 when he was 35 years old.
His lifetime average was .366.
LEGEND
Yeah but he played from 1905 to 1928. It's not like the quality of the average player at the time was where it is now. It was also segregated. I have a really hard time buying the hyper elevated status of all the very old timers.
Cobb is the best hitter of all time
@@johnnythunder196 Can you guarantee that he was up to the challenge of facing modern players? Especially post integration?
@@michaelb6349 Haven't you heard the quote from Ty Cobb in the early 1960s where they asked him how he would do in today's game. He said he would hit in the .200s. They asked why. He said well because I'm 72 years old.
(Something like that from memory was in the movie)
Basically saying he was not impressed.
ゲーリーペイトンがイチローのことで熱くなってる
ってすげえな
Yes of course
what does that stuff say?
@@johnnythunder196 "Its amazing how passionate Gary Peyton was about Ichiro here"
I agree
To answer her question: no, you can't put them in the same class. Ichiro is a future hall-of-famer and Pete Rose is not. ;)
+Tecknowledgist says:
"To answer her question: no, you can't put them in the same class. Ichiro is a future hall-of-famer and Pete Rose is not. ;)"
==
Well, unless Ichiro starts gambling on baseball and gets caught.
It can happen.
Who knows?
Pete Rose has had a much better and more prestigious career and is only held back by MLB's ignorance (; nice try buddy
flamingobandit says:
"only held back by MLB's ignorance (; nice try buddy"
==
It was his own creation.
www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14365554/pete-rose-remains-banned-major-league-baseball-per-commissioner-rob-manfred-decision
You didn't know this?
No your the Idiot....
Ichiro had more hits per year and overall in Mlb.
Jay Happ pitching was tougher back then. rose played many hall of famers. how many has ichiro?
Ichiro!!!!!
Kha moune Pete Rose!!!!!
Pete Rose played 3 different positions. Ichiro only 1. Pete is a better.
@@thunderousooner527 Ichiro have played rightfield, centerfield, leftfield, and pitcher
@@thunderousooner527 just bc someone can play more positions doesn't always mean they are better
The reason why Ichiro is awesome is he reached the milestone in the USA as Japanese. Imagine. Wouldn't it be difficult to achieve such a fantastic goal in an unfamiliar environment? Language, culture, food, everything is different. Most people cannot consider this point. It goes without saying that Pete is also worthy of praise, but he seems to have lost himself. He should have respected Ichiro. Since Ichiro spotlighted you again. Don't you think so? Both of them are no doubt awesome!
Mcnabb comes off as one of those obnoxious high school punks. One of those people where you tell him the sky is blue and he says no its green. No donavan its blue. Donavan: nope its green its green green green green na na na.
Ichiro is a far better overall player than pete rose. Its not even close. Tim mccarver said it best " Hes the best outfield since clemente"
emptywendysbag was ichiro an all star at 5 different positions?
Puerto RICO!!! Clemente!!
sounds like you are projecting a little there .
my guess is you have never seen Rose play and most certainly never saw him play in his Prime.
No its more like because a person has a different opinion than you that person must be wrong.
Pete Rose just recently said as Ichiro has currently 4255 hits (1278 Japan and 2977) that the Japanese media is making him out to be a "hit Queen" of baseball instead of hit King. Sorry, Pete you're still not going to Cooperstown and Ichiro will make you into his "hit Bitch" soon enough.
The better baseball player is Ichiro hands down. I even think Ichiro is the better hitter. Ichiro is without a doubt one of the GOATS.
Rose brought more to the table than his numbers show. A lot of intangibles with Rose that helped any team he was on. And also Rose was racking up his hits and was at his best winning batting titles in the era of the pitcher,1960s! Facing Marichal, Koufax ,Seaver , Perry,Gibson , etc and hitting way above league average . every year. Any team was better for having Pete on it
Forget his Japanese career. Just in the MLB alone hes a first ballot hall of famer. Compared to an overall player Ichiro is a much better player than Pete Rose. IMO Ichiro is one of the top 10 best OVERALL players in MLB history. Also Pete Roses comments to USA today saying that the "MLB should count his minor league hits" are you insane pete? Its hard to take anything Donavan says seriously. He seems childish/& truly upset. Donavan "I won" What did you win Donavan?
The answer is obviously yes
ICHIRO is the best baseball player ever !!!
what are you smoking! Ichiro never won a world Series
arturo j guzman Your joking right ?
Not...
I meant not on him being the best ever...
I guess you never heard of players like Mantle, Mays, and Aaron.
I’m not being sarcastic I really like seeing athletes talking others sports I think that’s cool
Even just with the MLB records
Ichiro is clearly the better player.
B4 freedomfighter naw
@Bravo 4 u are stupid and wrong
Did you see Pete play?
Ichiro without a doubt is in the same class as Cobb or Rose
Same class sure. Awesome future HOF. Let's leave it at that. Because when you look at Ty Cobbs offensive stats, fielding stats and baserunning stats he starts to clearly stand apart from any player who ever played baseball. He still has records intact after over 100 years of baseball for a reason. The only player as fast as Cobb from home to first was Mickey Mantle in his early years.
Thanks guy! This debate clears the things up for me, Ichiro was a much better player than Rose! Ten Gold gloves!!! Wow!!!
Im sorry but its a total different era, and pitchers back then were great but pitchers now a days are more evolve. You cant put ichiro and pete rose in the same class, because ichiro is above that class, he is a hitting machine, and his bat control and eye sight is uncanny
I don’t know if Ichito is better than Pete
However I know Pete is “Gambling king”
Gambling has nothing to do with on field stats. Period...Jealous people yes.
I saw in person all of those 10 years and he’s hands-down the greatest player I’ve ever seen in my era!
The true hit KING 👑
I'll take Aaron and Mays any day. Both hit for power and had high averages. Mays was a great base stealer and could play SS. I saw him do it. Aaron could also steal bases.
The table in front of performers is cool... I think.
By the way, When does Ichiro return to active duty?
Pete Rose transcended the game? In what way, betting? Lol @ McNabb
I was thinking the same thing... In what ways did Rose "transcend the game" that Ichiro hasn't?
PUPS...The Big Red Machine was an iconic team...you transcend the game when everyone knows your team's nickname 40 years later...Rose was the main cog, tying the NL hit streak record at 44
if Pete Rose managed over 4000 hits while betting, I'd hate to imagine how many hits he'd get without betting.
He has more hits than any other player in the history of the major leagues. Come on. Nobody can take that from him.
@@leafyutube you know nothing about pete rose. He bet when he was a manager. idiot.
In 2024 Ichiro will be in the Baseball HOF
By not bringing Ichiro's Japanese baseball years, then you still have to admit that Ichiro's career started when he was 27 or 28. For him to reach 3,000 hits starting at that age as well as break the seasonal hit record, the seasonal road hits record, the 10 consecutive 200+ hits record, etc., makes it impossible to say he is not in the same class as Rose and Cobb. Plus pitching is much more a science now than it was in Rose's day and certainly in Cobb's. I agree with what the one guy is saying: we don't need to bring in the Japanese years simply because if he had played those years in the MLB, he would own records out of this world simply because it's obvious that he could play not only in the MLB but at a higher level than just anybody else who played with or against him. He hit the best pitchers the MLB had to offer. None of them owned him. As one infielder said, every Ichiro at-bat was a fire-drill. And we're not even talking about his incredible speed and defensive play.
Pitching may be more of a science but we do not know how Ichiro would have reacted to Gibson and Drysdale throwing under his chin. Pitchers were mean back then and more similar to the meanness of the 1920"s. By the time the 90's rolled around baseball was not as mean as the sixties.
if he played those 9 years in MLB, he wouldn't be the Ichiro that we know now.
I love how people are comparing japanese baseball to AAA but then someone like ichiro who decides he wants to play in MLB tears up the show. Same thing with shohei for the angels lol
Ichiro will never care whoever they chose .
If Pete Rose can steal a base in under three seconds, or throw from the outfield, and nail a runner going home, and have the greatest number of hits in a season in MLB history, all with an abbreviated length of time in MLB...baseball played in the modern era is different now, pitchers routinely throwing in the mid nineties...then, there's room for comparison...otherwise, the numbers do speak for themselves.
+Jason Smith also think about this I mean you are pitchers throw into the mid 90's consistently however they barely complete games they go 5-6 innings and out the game. Pete had to face a Gaylord Perry for 8-9 innings.Ichiro is a great hitter but imagine what Charlie Hustle would have gotten had he just batted right handed. #top 5 Rose, Gwynn, Ichiro, Carew, Boggs
Bobby Marsh and imagine what Pete Rose would have done playing in the Japanese baseball league he would have eaten those little pitchers. alive
No, he is not, the starting pitching Pete faced was better in his day period.
Yeah, pitchers haven't gotten any help from the rules for years. I would say the pitching was much harder for batters to face in Roses day... More substances to change ball rotation, spit balls were pretty common, umps were just worse in general, and you'd get thrown out now a days for pitching a batter inside to make him back off the plate.
you are making the argument that pitchers today are better than in Rose's day? I cant stop laughing.
If he started his career in the US.... wow, cant imagine....would easily beat this Pete Rose addict gambler guy
Yeah that’s true... but i believe ichiro and Pete rose had different play styles. Furthermore Ichiro was a better defensive player and a faster player. The stats you are comparing Ichiro and Pete Rose to are subjective. They are both talented players and their is really no point of making an argument to which is better. They both played in different ERA’s and both had different play styles.
You claim that stats are there but Ichiro did not play his prime in Japan not to mention if you make the argument that Pete rose had better career stats than Ichiro in last 19 years well then I could make the argument that Ichiro had a shorter period of time to face mlb pitchers and yes the stats are subjective. Do some research on Ichiro and his mentality in the game. He did what was best for the team and he hit singles on purpoae he wasn’t looking to get better stats. And I believe Ichiro had 10 gold gloves and his arm is incredible not to mention he has the fastest time from home to first. Also Ichiro went up in the box and he had a goal in mind to hit the pitchers best pitch ie. slider curve fastball so on
Nonetheless Pete Rose may have been the better hitter but Ichiro was the better hit maker. Also Ichiro fielding and Pete rose fielding are not close. Ichiro was by far the better fielder without a doubt. If you can’t admit that there is no point of arguing with you. Not to mention Ichiro was from a foreign country and had to break some sort of a barrier like on a smaller scale of Jackie Robinson. He had to prove that’ Asians can be position players in the mlb. Again as I restate my argument there is no point of arguing for the players on which is better. They both have their respective traits and their play styles are different.
I never said a word about the Japanese league. Here is an article for you.
I made an excuse u don’t seem to be making an argument for the article I’m sorry if your feeling are hurt I respected ur opinion and u seem to only focus on offense and not only the defense and the fact Ichiro can stela basses
He's undebatebley a better athlete......
Better arm
... faster....
More style and grace....
Also a more respectable person . Imo.....
Ichiro also hustled hard as well as anyone who ever played the game..... even though he doesn't get enough credit for it...
People in the game know.....
It's just the ignorant prejudice media types , who don't appreciate what he did imo.....
Ichiro started his career at the end of the steroid era.
Pete Rose played during a time where starting pitchers would tone down their intensity a bit in order to throw longer and deeper into games. The pitchers did not throw as hard. The relievers did not throw as hard. The defenders were not as fast. There is a whole list of reasons why you cannot compare the two.
Ichiro was a better baseball player? Rose was an all-star at 6 different positions in his career.
So you saying a jack of all trades is better than the master of area 51
Can anyone tell me what this show was called. It looks mad cool. Love the combination of Donovan McNabb and Gary Payton
I vote for Ichiro.
there were not that many latinos and black players at his era
Mario Crespo Viva latinos!
There were more black players in the majors 40 years ago than there are today. What does that have to do with anything?
buckfan1969 not that competitive then today
I think you're saying the competition is better today than it was then. Is that what you're saying? Forget it. They've done everything they can to stymie the pitcher in today's game. It's all about offense; just like in football and basketball. Juiced balls (and players). Smaller ballparks. Smaller strike zone. Don't allow pitchers to throw inside. And you think the competition is better today?
So you're saying it was not as competitive back then because there were more black players then? Please explain.
I don't know which is the better batter,
but I know which is more gentle.
your English is funny
They forgetting about Ichiro's 10 Gold Gloves????
It's not even close. Ichiro is far better player.
I like how Andy brings up that stat and then Donovan like all these old timers always brings up that different era argument. Didn’t start off the convo by saying Ty Cobb hitting 700 doubles? Did that happen last year?
YES! Ichiro is hands down so much better. Come on people!
kyshro naw
4,256 > 3089
Ichiro also played in a more hitter friendly era.
I would much prefer to have Pete Rose on my team. What the panel (minus McNabb) seem to be missing is how many times Ichiro led the league in At Bats, therefore increasing his hit totals. Rose had about twice as many doubles and 40 more triples (despite having no speed). Why is that significant? Because he gets himself in scoring position more often that Ichiro, who is basically a slap hitter. That's why Rose had about 700 more runs scored than Ichiro. And I'm pretty sure the point of offensive baseball is scoring runs.
What a clown you are
TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO HITS in 161 games played while only striking out 63 times is INCONCEIVABLE
C'mon guys! They're both great ball players!
Ichiro is better
No not really. ichiro was great but if you play Bryan Kenny and look at career Ops...Even as long as Pete played his is still higher.
I know one person who thinks he isn't Pete Rose's equivalent - Pete Rose. An argument can be made though. If Ichiro had the ABs that Rose did, then he could actually have more hits. As far as fielder, don't get mad people but Ichiro was not just better but much, much better. 10, yes 10 Gold gloves to Pete's 2. And you cannot even compare the arms. Ichiro had one of the best arms ever, as in ever in the history of the game. So as weird or odd as it sounds, you could make the argument that Ichiro was every bit as good. Maybe better. A shame he couldn't have gotten those 5,000 more ABs
The answer is yes, Donovan.
Rose played in an era when pitching was different. In Rose's era, starting pitchers were expected to 'eat' innings and throw deep into the game. That gave hitters a better chance to adjust and face a tired arm pitcher in the latter innings. Ichiro played in today's era of pitching, where starters work 5 or 6 innings and then hand the ball over to middle relief pitchers and closers. It's harder on a hitter now because they're always facing fresh arms and it's not as easy to get 'used' to a pitcher.
Rose faced hall of fame pitchers. His era of pitching was incredible. From Sandy to Gibson. You can go on and on with the great pitchers he faced. Put them in todays game and they would win awards.
The real question is between Ichiro and Ty Cobb
exactly
Do Korean, Taiwan & Mexican league stats count too???
Is that Andy Roddick?? I didn't know he got into this stuff
Hard to compare eras..... Ichiro was fantastic
Rose on the diamond was a hit machine. Always trying to get on base no matter the situation and he hit to all fields and also unlike what haters say on here was a good defensive outfielder in his day.
if ichiro's slugging was like .480 or better for his career, he would be the perfect baseball player. Arm, glove,speed, and contact hitting are at the highest level.
No matter what country it is still a professional league.
so are the minors technically.
If he started in the MLB, people like Donovan McNabb would say...
"Well he's Asian,you know...and Pete Rose is Caucasian. If Ichiro was Caucasian, he might not have hit as well, you know what I mean? Maybe he would, we would never know. Hence, it doesn't count."
My question is why does McNabb rven think he knows what he's talking about in baseball
Ichiro is the far better player.
But Pete Rose is the all time MLB hits leader.
Ichiro skill wise is the best hitter to ever live pete rose is close and has the stats and mlb test of time but lets think here did pete rose play til he was 45? Add ichiros age 20-27 seasons to his major league career and he would have blown pete rose out of the water. People just suckoff american sports because its american sports. Nobody is saying his japan hits should counts, but give ichiro 5 or 6 more years its not even close
the glove is awesome Oakland finest
Don’t forget to add Pete’s Minor League stat hits!😎
I would like to point out that neither player in their BEST ops+ seasons matched up to mike trouts WORST ops+ season.
Trout isn’t anywhere near ichiro or rose there is more to baseball then homeruns just saying there is a reason majority who actually played baseball Have Mays over Ruth for a lot of reasons and Griffey they were BETTER ALL AROUND PLAYERS THEY DID EVERYTHING BETTER THEN A GUY KNOWN FOR HOMERUNS IM JEUT SAYING
Ichiro was the greatest “Slap” hitter ever but to compare to Pete Rose is crazy. Pete was also overloaded with intangibles.
What about Ichiros obp???
Why you compare Rose and Hitman?why is blonde commenting?
I realize Donovan "Glug-Glug" McNabb was just playing his part on this segment, but come on. Pete Rose's record was due in large part to his longevity. Great ballplayer for sure. I'm not taking that away from him. But Ichiro didn't get to the big leagues until he was, what, 28? I'm not saying he should be credited for 4,000 hits as a major leaguer, because obviously, the Japanese leagues are not "Major Leagues" by any standard. Ty Cobb played a hundred years ago in a different era. The competition was not nearly as good. The rules were different. Please don't get me wrong! Ty Cobb was one of the best to ever play and he would be a superstar in any era. But would he have posted a .367 (.366?) lifetime average? I doubt it. Would he have gotten 4189 hits? I doubt it. How would he have done against Bob Gibson, Dwight Gooden, or Pedro Martinez? How would he have fared in an era where the average big league pitcher has a fastball in the nineties? (Google it.) How would he do in an era where none of the players have to work in the offseason and consequently get to spend all their time focusing on becoming better baseball players? My answer is he would've been a superstar -- a perennial all star, a first-ballot hall-of-famer -- but he wouldn't have put up the insane lifetime numbers he did. He would've fit right in with the Joe Dimmagios, the Ted Williams, the Willie Mays, the Carl Yastrzemskis, the Ichiros, the Reggie Jacksons, the Manny Ramirezes, and the Derek Jeters of the baseball world. The ridiculous numbers put up before the forties and fifties are great, and those guys deserve our respect, but the lower half of the players on those teams wouldn't even make major league rosters today.
As Don Mattingly had said, you can't just dismiss the Japan League as AAA league either.
Ichiro has one of the best arms I've seen.
ever see Clemenete?
@@Gnofg I'm not that old so no, I didn't see him play live in person.
@@georgeprchal3924 Here are the rocket arms. Johnny Callison of the Phillies, Carl Furillo(the rifle) of the Brooklyn Dodgers and Roberto Clemente of the Pirates. Callison and Clemente would trade the league leader in assists every year.( around 20).
アメリカの方に申し訳ないですが、この3人の方々もスポーツで有名なんでしょう？
そんな方々から愛されているイチロー選手。日本人としてとても誇らしいです。ありがとう。
Pitching has gotten much better over the years. Have to give hitters now days much more respect. End of story!
Hands down Ichiro.
And ty Cobb was maybe the best hitter ever, but he would not have put those numbers in the modern game.
the answer is simply yes
@Bravo 4 Not a chance i take rose over suzuki
Not only is Ichiro a better player than Pete Rose, he's a better man, on and off the field.
even though I do think Ichiro is top 5 or even top 3 hitters of all time part of me feels he wouldnt be at 4000 hits if he started in MLB. if you look at his career AVG in Japan it was .358. and when he moved here his career AVG in MLB is .315 but another part of me says if he did come here earlier he woulda surpasses 4000 some time ago cause he picked up MLB pitchers fast I mean 200 hits in 10 straight seasons the drop in AVG in MLB might be due to his getting older and hitting form going down
I know that many people believe that pete rose is one of the best hitters ever but he wasnt. He was one of thhe best contact hitters but not nearly on ichiros level. Pete Rose is the hit king because he leads the MLB in games played and at bats all time. He was ultra durable but i would not put him in the same league as ty cobb and ichiro
Pete's batting average was .303 over 24 years.
He wasn't "ultra durable". He played through injuries. He said the culture was different back then.
Simon Riley cal rip ken
Donovan McNabb must’ve had ond too many concussions during his football playing days to say that Ichiro Suzuki isn’t in the same league as a hitter as Pete Rose and Ty Cobb. I can only fathom what Ichiro would’ve accomplished if he didn’t spend those nine years playing in Japan and played them in Major League Baseball instead. He may have taken the all-time hit record away from Rose.
How many players came out of high school to the majors? I can only think of two. Kaline and Yount. You can not project what Ichiro did in his prime to what he would have done in his formative years. We also don't know what ichiro would have done when Gibson and Drysdale flattened him.. How would Ichiro reacted when in those days pitchers were mean and pitched inside.
This is Peter Dinardo Icirhiro was a great player but no comparison to Pete rose Pete was an all star first baseman and third baseman also he was a catalyst on both championship teams Pete rose was what every kid wanted. To be the best hitter me and my generation ever saw
10straight seasons over 200hits. 265 in a season. Won MVP in his rookie year. Yes not just in the same class with Rose.... to Pete mover over that dude is the hit king. And that’s without mentioning base-stealing and defense 10 gold gloves
You play the game to win. Pete was a winner. Which is the opposite of the HOF. The HOF inducts players with stats now, not winners.
I'm not sure you can compare baseball in Japan to football in Canada.. The CFL is were people who couldnt get drafted go to play. Japan takes baseball extremely seriously just as several latin American countries do. tons of prospects come from outside the U.S. when it comes to baeball.. not so for football because not many other countries take that sport seriously. Idk the fact that ichiro didnt come to the majors until he was almost 30 and still produced as much as he did for as long as he did, had he had the other 9 years he would have made 4000 easy. that's not to say he was already past his prime by come here but starting at 28 he certainly left some of his most productive years in japan. Dude is the goat is all I'm saying.
Love_Morphine "Don't get me wrong. We should not judge a player's records based on which races he's been playing against most. Each legendary player played with the best players who qualifies to stay in the big league at the time he's active." ....I can agree with that. All is good then. Perhaps I misunderstood before. I just take offense when imply that Rose's era wasn't diverse and that people disregard what Rose did based either on his color, the false perceived color of his era, or they hate him for the gambling.
Gary Paton?
Both are all time greats! I'll take Pete Rose on my team any day of the week.