Edelbrock Intake Manifold Dyno Test :: Single Vs Dual + Air-Gap Vs Regular
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 10. 2009
- Edelbrock single plane (Victor Jr) vs dual plane (Air-Gap) intake manifolds on the same engine in a dyno test at Westech Performance. Plus a test of the Air-Gap vs Regular dual plane intake manifolds. This is an episode I edited.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have run several engines with the regular Performer RPM 4150 and a 1” open spacer. They look factory and run well. My last engine was a 468 BBC with a Comp Cam’s hydraulic, similar to the Edelbrock RPM hyd. camshaft. We added a 1” open spacer, under a Holley 850 HP and made 537 hp. This was with a mechanical water pump, NOT electric water pump, but what you typically see on a street car. All run through 2” Hooker Comp headers, 3” full exhaust to rear bumper. In a 3,925 lb. ‘66 Bel Air, weight with driver, in as driven on the street, except for 9” radial slicks, ran 11.51 @ 116.51 mph. This was with a Turbo Action 10” street converter (tight) with a flash stall of 3,800 rpm’s.
Pontiac guys have known this for many years. Except we only cut down the back half of the divider so the secondarys take advantage. Test have been done on this with regular performer and Qjets and that lil trick will definitely add power and smooth everything out.
This is an excellent feature. I can't believe it's almost been 10 years.
Its been 10 years now
@@noeflores8049 It' been 13 years now! This is way back when Freiburger and his organ grinder monkey sidekick were just teenagers!!
I have completed the same mods to my Performer RPM 1" spacer and milled divider and it works on my 383 stroker 350 with Victor Jr heads we also port matched the intake and a general clean up on the castings. Great job guy's and in idles sweet as.
Great segment guys, love it.
I used suck,squeeze,bang,blow as a answer to homework when I was going to Harley school in Phoenix in 93 too funny.Other students wrote pages on how a four stroke works all I wrote was those four words .He got a good laugh
Very informative test! This helps me with the decisions I'm making, as I'm building my SBC.
Great review guys. I run an Air-gap on my 318 mopar.
Early Engine Masters
Great video. Really wanted to see the 1 inch spacer on the air gap rpm though. that's what's going in my 383 next week so hopefully makes a difference over the regular rpm in my setup
haha that's awesome! I've been looking for a video like this for SSSOOOOO long, thanks guys, i'm actually putting a Performer RPM manifold on my 283 later on this week =]
KEEP in mind the performer doesn't have the heat riser blocked off,
that could boil gas in the bowls.
The RPM air-gap has the the risers blocked off.
Keep in mind the reason for the air gap is to keep fuel temps cooler...so for my money the air gap is my choice on cruise night, cross country, or towing. Pontiac did this on all it's factory V-8's.
Yeah but they still had a heat crossover.
Great test and very informative but its important to note that a change in cam profile such as something with more over lap for example can throw those results out the window and have a very different out come. There are many different factors to consider, and all engines and set ups should be tested individually. Keep up the good work and look forward to more testing on different combo's.
nah your wrong bro
Exactly right.
I decided to test the Air Gap over a well established single. Multiple carbs with each setup dialed in and found the more spacers added the better it ran but not close to the single. You can feel the torque go away above 5k. The Air Gap is on the shelf collecting dust. It ALL depends on the build and the chasis.
What are the dimensions for the divider relief you milled on the RPM manifold? Depth, length and was this centered or offset? Curious if this would also help the regular performer manifolds.
an additional interesting comparison would be to put a plenum divider in the vic jr and also notch it the proper amount at the top and see how much, if any, low and midrange torque the vic jr can gain on the air-gap dual plane. it would also show if the divider in the vic jr would cost some high rpm hp.
great test, glad i ran into this one. would like to see some test on that new Thumper cam
Good info! Im planing to mill the plenum divider on my stealth intake
Great info guys !!!, I just built a 355 SBC, AFR 195 and a solid roller 242/248 @ 0.050 with 570 lift, Victor Jr, 10.7CR and 750 carb, we made 481 and 428 fts lbs. I have a video on my youtube page. It's in a manual car so very spongy below 4000 rpm, we were thinking of going the Air gap to fire up the bottom end a bit. This video has help alot. Cheers from Australia . Mario
Good to go back in time!.....My setup is very similar ,(PN 2101,ground down center ,dual plane /spacer ), touch the accelerator... It jumps !!!
That was a really good video! Thanks!!!
Dual plane intakes been around for a long time.
I have a Edelbrock C3BX that's really vintage.
I've had a couple of those !!!
Chuck it up on a lathe? ha ha. Geez! Glad I'm not the only one who caught that Alex. lol.
great info, gonna try that spacer on my 350 , mine falls flat on its face often right off the line.
I am using the Holley Terminator EFI system on my 400 Firebird. Mild cam bored etc. I have the Edelbrock RPM dual plane manifold. I am experiencing a tip in stumble at lights an I think it could be from the divider in the middle of the manifold. Can I expect to alleviate my issue as well as get a bit more out of it if I mill out an air gap on my manifold? Do not think I have enough clearance to do a spacer as well.
Cool video! Good info!
Is spacer open or 4-hole? Also thoughts about using a phenolic spacer instead of aluminum to reduce heat to the carb or Holley Sniper. I’m planning on using Holley Sniper with Air Gap on my 383 sbc.
I really want to see them chuck that intake up on a lathe...
Monster lathe!
They showed the manifold being modified in the video. He called it a lathe, but it was actually a vertical mill.
I had the same reaction , "I wanna see this " ........We have a lathe big enough in our shop but would use the mill , which is what he obviously meant to say , lol .
AIR-GAP has the coolant bypass
Drops cylinder head temps around 10F
So more compression and timing can be added.
Super happy with my AIR-GAP though.
A single plane intake will always make more hp than a dual plane intake. Just at a higher rpm. This is a very old video, but I recall them doing the test again on Engine Masters and of course the single plane won.
chief slap a ho from the slap a ho tribe on my 383 small block Chevy I ran the air gap RPM for a little over a year and loved it, but after speaking to my cam Builder we installed a single plane Jr Victor intake. lost zero throttle response or lower end torque...but gained mid-range and upper horsepower at least by 20whp...car is a pleasure to drive around town, idles great and puts you in the seat when I hit the pedal..
I have a 347 sbf. I had a Victor Jr. also and car ran perfect. I changed to a funnel web single plane and it is kind of like a super victor in a way with height and it is a happy engine. Had a 327 sbc with a dual plane in the past and switched over to a victor jr and it screamed. After that just preferred single planes over dual planes for a street strip car.
chief slap a ho from the slap a ho tribe right on! Yeah I'm sticking to the Victor jr. As well. Especially after seeing the graphs showing no loss and more horsepower.👍
Well the Quad adapter makes it an open plenum so your chasing your tail for an accurate test.
Something that rarely gets covered in these tests is carburetor changes and tuning.
A larger CFM, Annular boosters and tuning would change quite a bit of the outcome.
The AirGap wouldn't be able to utilize the extra air volume but would be much more in line with recommendations for the Victor Jr.
This type of testing is "step one" of dozens of tests needed to draw the multiple conclusions on these setups.
Using the same carb and no tuning is like using the same tires on both a quarter mile vehicle and on a road course!
Great video but lets see the other 98% also.
Got to love the trusty 350 SB.
Im a Mopar guy but the old chevy smallblock is a good engine. Love them.
How about running the air gap with the carb adapter or the 1 inch spacer they both add plenum volume
How long has fred durst been into engines??
Used all of these one time or another agreed dual planes are impressive especially on heavy drivers, also used the jnr tall version in a very mild 350 z25 isky 10.5 comp glide 3500 convertor 4.50 and 28 " tires 3 years 11.os best 10.85 Sydney dragway cold night.
Awesome video here
I have an offenhauser 360 intake for a sbf laying around. The machine work you did to the divider in the middle is similar to how the offey is setup from the factoy. it has like a 3/4"x3/4" square knotch out of the top of the divider.
How much hp gain would the rpm airgap intake would make with an 1" open spacer ?
10 more hp ?
Eric, what would be the benefits of running the dual plane over a single plane for street / racing . I am wanting to get one of the Chinese copy’s of an Edelbrock air gap manifold but I can seem to find a copy of the performer rpm air gap. And the only air gap copy I can find is the Victor Jr. air gap copy.
Please do a comparison of the edelbrock air gap versus the Procomp air gap
Yea i'm with TheSteelArmadillo i would love to see how this would work on a stock motor!
I think you meant Bridgeport for milling not LATHE-- people used to cut that down 30 years ago but great to see it works on the dyno for actual proof
I think a better test to compare against both the rpm airgap and the vic junior would be the medium rise team g.
look at the intake manifold ports with a gasket to see if Manifold and head come even close to matching. I found the RPM is perfect port matched to the heaed wher as the Vict Jr and Super Vic really need port work at openings
wouldn't a regular Performer RPM do as well as the Air Gap version if the plenum divider was milled the same amount ?
I would like to see this test done on a big block chevy and see the results. Could you make that happen?
Yeah I would definitely say it's early engine Masters, but then again I would say engine Masters is one of the best. There's so many other channels that just are complete nonsense and dragged out all the unimportant stuff and fast forward of all the important stuff because they're afraid it may be conceived as boring. If you need fake reality TV drama go watch the Kardashians, but for some of us who actually like the in depth technical stuff that may not be so dramatic to watch but is actually informative. I just wish that there was more engine Master episodes. I haven't seen a new one in a while. Roadkill is okay but I'm definitely a fan of engine Masters.
What is old because new again. Re-run again on Engine Masters. So happy that Steve Brule got in front of the camera.
There was an anomoly .... they used a mill, NOT a lathe, to machine out the plenum divider, but a very good video none the less !!!
how much was the plenum milled out?
Performer rpm, 2" open spacer, 850 double pumper. Any Input?
the same top end power numbers from the Vic Jr & the RPM intake means there is an air restriction somewhere else, be it the carb, head or the hedders
Resistance factors
Great info keep it coming 5/5
Hi how much is milled out of manifold length and width
And if I put a spacer on the air gap? Any affect?
What if this test was performed with a big-block mule?
would you get the same results for a Mopar 340?
would a 2" spacer have many any more difference in power or would it have been over kill? I was wondering because summit racing has both the 1" and 2" spacer for the same price. I want to put it on my 327. Thanks
70 Z28 intake vs air gap whats your take the 70 Z28 lt1 soild cam 11to 1's all factory spec.
Guys what do u use for gasket to fuel boiling issues .i have edelbrock perforner dual plane.my 79 corvette run the best with 1 inch open spacer but i got a crack in the hood and i had to remove it unfortunately
When you ran the true dual plane, did you jet carb fatter?
Why did he say he needed to add an "adapter plate" to use a holley 4150 on the Performer RPM Qjet manifold? The RPM Qjet is drilled for both carburetors already?
Milling 1/2" off the full length of the plenum divider? Was that it?
Back before you knew about color correction. Great B-role 😂
where do you hook up the brake booster
Good test. It would be nice to see on a stock motor though.
I have a vintage Offenhauser 360 split single plane that came the middle halfway milled out stock. Has anyone ever ran these? Going on my 283
fryberger was pointing at different lines on the graph to prove a point
How much did you modify the duel plan
you are going to notch it in a lathe???
I wanna see that intake rotating 500 rpm in a lathe
The did it in a mill. I think everyone mis-speaks from time to time.
Nova Z I just didn't know if there was a procedure i didn't know about.
I just want to see how they chuck int into any lathe. That is video worthy.
Mike S yes you could there are ways to hold the material and spin the bit ya know
@@zr1402 Exactly, and they showed it in the video. Evidently, the guys commenting did not even realize what they were seeing.
How far apart was the cut out
I wonder how much difference it would make to mill that divider down even further in the regular RPM intake...
David Starr if very if you milled it all the way down you'd get way better fuel mixtures and probably an even afr, better performance
I thought Greaseburgers partner was "Silent Bob",then he starts talkin half way thru and ruins it for me!!
So what you guys basically were saying, and correct me if I'm wrong; but if I add a 1" spacer on top my Performer RPM AirGap intake. I can squeeze a bit more horse power in on my power curve? Please tell me yes. I'll get a spacer right now.
so i have a 350 im going to make a 383 stroker, i have a cam for it already its the magnum cam 292h .501 intake/exhaust lift with a 2500-6500 rpm operating range. should i get the square bore torker ii intake manifold because it has the same operating ranges? PLEASE REPLY WITH YOUR 2 CENTS IF YOU EXPERIENCED
i think on the performer intake i would have used the spacer from edelbrock that takes a square bore carb to a spread bore manifold and tried that it just seems to match the plenum from the design of the spacer so no air is leaking (whistling)and the gasket doesnt get saturated with gas like i seen when you had the open hole spacer which seems to work with wot pills or racing but for daily driving in stop and go isnt the way to go..just my experience.
How come 1 5/8 headers? Wouldn't 1 3/4 headers match the combo better, especially with the Victor jr?
So they get a new web site take everything off the old site and run it again bright, hard times????
Engine masters before engine masters
Come on now ! We all know the brains here belong to Steve Dulcich !
He wasn't in this video.
depends on the vehicle you're putting the engine into. A TORKER 2 intake manifold is not designed for heavy vehicles. I have one that one a 350 in my truck and its sluggish in the low end, but i will say it does make some AWESOME power in the top though. I am going to switch back to the performer after watching this though.
I'd love to see a old vintage Torker Manifold vs. Torker II, RPM Performer and a Air Gap RPM Performer. I'm a big fan of the Torker on a SBC, with the right combination of parts, it kicks ass on the track and street...
Old Torker definitely made more power than the Torker 2. It's comparable to a RPM on 400+HP smallblocks. Rpm has alittle more low end of course.
What would you use on a 383, 12:1 , solid roller, 7500 shift.....Torker? your thoughts, please. Thanks.
lathe?
Man! I just bought a Holley 750 double pumper and the Edelbrock air gap intake for my 383 with vortec heads from a 99 Escalade. I want to know the 1" spacer difference!? Please?!
A couple hp, not extremely noticeable but itll help.
What music is that? that is a Wicked riff!
how much did you mil it down so i can do it to mine.
Kick ass lathe! Kinda looks like a mill?
Vertical lathe
Wery good informative test this, make me wonder if anyone has tested a Performer intake up against a Performer RPM?
If I install the 1” spacer do I need a gasket in between the block and the spacer and the spacer to the carburetor?
Yes.
Gee Finnigan has changed heaps 😂
Why not try a 2" spacer ?
What would this intake combo do with a 383 under it? How steerable would it be at the bottom end and in a 81 Camaro with a performance built 350 turbo and a shift kit and slightly looser converter... 3.42 rear gear (stock 81 Camaro Z28) I'm trying to find an intake carb combo that will fit under the stock hood with factory air cleaner.
SuperDave21 well, I used the RPM air gap on my 33 for about a year and loved it, but when I switch to the Victor jr. Intake at the recommendation of my cam builder and my car felt a lot better in the mid range in Upper RPMs for sure. I lost zero throttle response and the bottom end torque feels just as Snappy.. Car is a pleasure drive around town and pulls much harder just my two cents
And you and I have very similar builds only difference is I have a 373 rear gear ratio
And just FYI the Victor jr. Sits about a half inch lower than the RPM air gap
Sounds a bit better than what I'm trying to do. Going brodix ik200's, solid roller 241/247 @.05 w/ .570 lift, Edelbrock performer RPM air-gap, 10.6 CR 750 Holley DP and looking for a M22, m21 or t-56 to throw behind it. Really find the cam hilarious. Going a little tight on quench with mine about .038. Hoping to make 400/400 minimum anything over that would be a bonus.
With them parts, anything less than 450hp would mean something ain't right. Probably 475+ with proper tune.
impressive
At first I thought that Kendigit's older brother was a mute untill he uttered something after like 5 minutes.
Air gap resembles the 1970 lt1 360hp stock 350 manifold
Who's the guy Co hosting with Freiburger??
I've seen this show somewhere else before
OK fellow gear heads. Can anyone help me? My sbc combination is similar... Same Cid same rod length.. Same heads ... But... I have right about 13-1cr and a comp solid roller with 270 274 @50 and .668 lift with a 110lsa. (ironically I used to have a 294s and 11-1 cr). I've been running a ported vic Jr since I went with higher cr and a much large by huge camshaft. So my question is... Should I go back to my old rpm airgap or stay with my vic Jr? This is a rarely driven Street car and part time stripper. I just figured with my 7300rpm shifts and 4000 converter that the vj was my best option. But the car does see more light Street duty than track time.... Stick with the vj? Any real advice appreciated. Thank you and motor on people
You should try a Holley Strip Dominator or a Super Victor or Dart singleplane. Use a 2 inch spacer if possible.