Why Cast Trunnions SUCK!
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- You hear all the time to stay away from AK’s with cast trunnions, but why? Forget the bro-science, here’s the real reason why cast trunnions fail, and billet/forged is a much better option. This is a must watch video if you’re looking to buy an AK!
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About Me
My name is Brandon Herrera. I'm the owner and operator of The AK Guy Inc, a 07 Firearm Manufacturer based out of Fayetteville, NC. I also co-own Stark Media Group, and designed the rifle known as the AK-50.
I've started to dedicate this CZcams channel to documenting my entrepreneurial journey for the next few years as I try to grow my companies. Hopefully, people can learn from my example, successes, and failures, as well as analyze my theories in business and see my results to decide for themselves.
Either way, I'm having a lot of fun with it so far, and I hope it's just as fun to follow along!
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You Can Also Follow Me Here:
Instagram: @RealBrandonHerrera.
Facebook: Facebook.com/RealBrandonHerrera/
"You're lying, and God's watching"
Haha omg that was hilarious
Lmao
USCOMBATDIVER k
USCOMBATDIVER you can always sell one to me for a pretty good price. I’ve been looking for an old surplus one for a good price.
My blankity blank -47 has shoots stuff
lol
Ha ha ha ha
PALMETTO STATE ARMOURY 47?
@@matthewdaniels7462 GF3 is good. Wasnt out nyet
Graham Baates Century Arms Dish WSSR-8 looks away in fright. 😬
Americans: My $500 cast turnnion AK is awesome
Soviets: _Laughs in mass production _
Turnnion
@@zuccgivethsucc646 Да
mwahahaga
Americans: but I shoot twice a year..couple hundred rounds max..no full auto..and I shoot at beer cans..
Soviets: oh
VC Guerrilla remove the space after production and your _explative_ will work
Props for that marker shopping
Glad I bought all my Com Bloc rifles back in the day...
I got into aks at the wrong time. 😂
@@Masta_E I fuckin feel that man. All the surplus has dried up.
Well Sam 7sf is hammerforged.
Dried up due to George H.W. Bush. I still can't believe he did that, and through Presidential fiat no less.
All that beautiful ammo just waiting to serve. :(
@@Masta_E I got old enough to buy firearms at the wrong time.
Stay away from the century American made rifles
Don't forget Inter Ordnance
And Riley.
@Robert Shaffer wasr is romanian made and century arms modified it to be compliant
I fell prey to the dreaded RAS-47 lol. Then I started seeing the articles and blogs of all the problems and failures with them. Ended up selling it.
@Chris VSKA crapped at 1500
Yes and no. The density doesn’t change from billet to forge. The density of the metal is the density of the metal, regardless of your harding process. Forging is elongating the grain structure that is on the surface of the metal. The forging process induces compressive forces on the surface which then hardens it. It forces a strain on the metal surface that moves based on the Young’s modulus, which dictates the stiffness of any metal; E= tensile stress/linear Strain. Billet is tough but not hard and that’s a function of the billets carbon content. A billet piece can be forged; density doesn’t change and carbon content doesn’t change. Tough meaning how much energy it absorbs. So a cast part will break because it’s brittle, a billet part will absorb energy and you’ll see “indentions” from impact and a forged piece is hard on the surface because the grain structure has gone under compressive forces. Now, you can machine a piece of bar stock in the direction of the grain structure and then you forge the same piece in the direction of of how the grains grew during the heating process. This will use the grain structure to your advantage. The same idea as wooden baseball bats. Grains only change when the metal is being heated. It’s a phase of the metal. But yes, the forging process hardens the surface of the metal, making a very hard part. In the end, your company and the AKs you all make rock, please continue to use the forged parts. Btw 4150 billet steel has a brinell hardness of 197 on the surface and after cold forging(cold hammer forging) it goes up to around 340
You can forge a billet into a trunnion or what have you but the fact still remains... billets are only formed one of two ways, continuous casting or hot rolling. It is a step above cast but still inferior.
Carbon content does change during forging.
@@ravioliformuoli520 yes and no, thats kinda a loaded statement.
never the less, i feel this guys knowledge of metal fundamentals is lacking.
@@ravioliformuoli520 yeah, the carbon will react with oxygen. Its called decarburization, and thats why they use vacuum chambers for melting and heat treating.
Came here to say something similar to this, Cast is shit because of the random mix of gases in the final metal.
Hey hey, im a redheaded stepchild and im a good boy
Great video. I made a video a while back about why I sold my RAS47. I took Jim Fuller out to breakfast to pick his brain and he told me a bunch of things about cast trunions....so I sold my RAS47. Well that set off a firestorm of haters who love their RAS47 and called me all kinds of names. I guess taking advice from an AK expert isn't something many agree with??? LOL Great video bro.
Lesson of the day: quit being a fucking cheapskate and invest in some quality shit.
My trunnion just cracked on mine. Have you looked into replacing it with a milled trunnion by chance? I like the Ras trigger and barrel so I want to keep it. My concern is that the barrel won't fit a surplus trunnion.
@@KurtOnoIR I've got people online telling me RAS47s are made with cast barrels. That can't possibly be true, can it? They're saying I have to replace not only the trunnion, but the bolt, bolt carrier and barrel.
@@DarkElfDiva There is no way you would have a cast barrel. The pressure would shatter it in short order, and even if it miraculously didn't, the rifling would be almost impossible to shape.
You sold your RAS? * Good choice *
content like this is great for the stale environment and helpful for people like me getting into AKs
"The forums" U mean the mongolian basket weaving forum?
gotta love the chan
Wtf happened to elas bangs
@@MoswenMedia Plebbit seems to hate the AK-Guy
As a machinist in training, I’m falling in love with firearms for a third separate time.
The precision and tolerances of these arguably intricate machines is fucking amazing.
I really wish I’d known about this channel before I bought an IO.
Sell it, I had to sell mine once I saw all the cast parts..
muaythai2005 what's an IO?
A Cow from what Iv been told it’s another name for what you leave in the toilet every morning
@@acow9966 Inter ordnance
Keep running it until it fails
Castings can be quite strong. Example, almost all production engine blocks are cast. The real problem is investing in things that reduce gas entrapment (Such as vacuum casting) and mold types that let the part cool very slow to provide the best interlocked grain structure such as sand molds.
And by the time you do that for small parts such as AK trunions you might as well have invested in forging.
Engine blocks are cast iron due to the cost (about 60% cheaper than aluminum.) A decent quality aluminum block is going to be stronger than the best quality cast iron block, and weigh 40-60% less than its CI equivalent.
Companies building trunnions out of cast iron are doing so for one reason only: cost. They're trying to save as much money as possible during production in order to reap maximum profit. PSA and Century Arms don't care if you experience catastrophic failure due to poor metallurgy, as is evidenced by their lack of customer support offered to those who experience it.
@@RockandrollNegro Cast iron engine blocks are a rarity today. Most are cast aluminum. Casting can be just as strong as other methods. And in truth all other methods from machining to forging all start from a cast billet as virtually all billets come from continuous castings and hot rolling method.
So no casting is not an inferior method. It is just the method that can be done with the least investment which can cause an inferior product.
@@Cragified Agreed, steel companies can generally afford the quality control and metallurgical science books and scientists to control defects in their forges. Considering any pure steel or pig iron was brought up to molten temp to drop out of their ores. Essentially "casted". What this brandon guy is talking about is gas porosity and is a defect.
@@RockandrollNegro except Palmetto doesn't use cast trunions, the are all hammer forged or billet forged, so that's not true, plus they have some of the best customer service around, if u disagree I can guarantee by ur ignorance already, U were the problem lol
Engine blocks aren't meant to be hard or strong, they're meant to be able to flex under changing RPMs. Crank shafts used to be forged, but forged cranks required surface hardening every time they were machined, where cast cranks actually surface harden while being machined, which makes them cheaper to produce while still being strong... enough... (they also have to flex). Racing engines, especially high end ones, typically use billet blocks and forged cranks because they're stronger than cast blocks and cranks.
So, yes... cast parts can be strong, but machined billets will generally be stronger and forged parts will always be stronger than any type of casing, no matter how technologically advanced the casting process may be.
"You're lying, and god's watching" roflmao! Great info, more like this please
Older video, but I feel the need to comment. For background, I'm both a 5 axis CNC aerospace machinist and a metallurgist, specializing in ferrous metals.
This is a bit misleading. The "grain" of steel does not flow like wood grain, as is pictured here, it is a crystalline structure. If you take a billet and machine it, the structure will be the same as the original billet, unless you thermally cycle the machined part, which is called normalizing, it reduces stresses induced by machining and reduces grain size, which is objectively the most important part, large grains = structural weakness. It also helps to "align" the structure, to stick with your analogy.
This is where forging gets its strength, because it is heated and formed, it helps reduce grain size, leading to stronger parts. BUT, if forged parts are not normalized after forging, they will not be as strong as they potentially could be.
Cast parts have absolutely HUGE grain size, a product of the insane temperatures needed for casting, unless they are properly thermally cycled, which is not easy with cast steel, and is also expensive, which is why they dont do it.
So your advice stands. Avoid cast parts, because they will not put the money into properly heat treating them.
If a billet trunnion is properly heat treated after machining, it will be just as strong as a forged one, and objectively better then a poorly heat treated forged trunnion.
Just wanted to clarify on some things. Great video as always.
So, it seems like what you're saying aligns at least partially with my layman's understanding from other contexts, and I want to check if there's something I'm missing:
Cast parts *can* be good quality, if the manufacturer knows what they're doing and puts in the time and effort (and cost) to do it right. But doing casting badly is the cheapest option, so most manufacturers of cast parts are going to be people doing the cheapest thing they can, and their parts are going to be shit as a result.
Is that about right?
@@logitimatethat's about right, yes. Cast steel needs to be thermally cycled (heated to a specific temperature, then air cooled) in order to increase its strength. But cast steel does not like sudden temperature changes, it can break it easily. So it's a difficult process to do effectively, and if a company is already casting trunnions instead of forging or milling them, I can guarantee they will not put that effort in.
@@willw7372 Got it. My question was partly inspired by the InRangeTV crew's recent video about the process of developing the glass-filled nylon monolithic AR-15 lower (KP-15) for their WWSD 2020 rifle, and the discussion of just what it takes to cast something that size, out of polymer, and have it reliably meet dimensional and durability requirements to be a properly functioning AR-15 lower - and hence, the wide gap between the quality you're going to get if you do it right vs. the quality you're going to get if you just throw together a mold in roughly the right shape, stick a port somewhere convenient, and start cranking out parts.
@@willw7372 Could casting properly still be a cheaper option than forging or milling at a sufficiently large scale? If not, how has Ruger - all politics aside - had the level of success it has?
@@logitimate casting is almost always a cheaper option. Once the molds are set, you can crank out many times more than you could via forging or machining. Quantity over quality. Foundry workers are also typically paid far less than machinists. As far as Rugers success goes, I cannot comment, I have no clue as to the inner workings of their operations.
your channel has taught me so much about AKs, and I made sure my first AK purchase wasn't a garbage one. keep up the good work
Really enjoyed this video. Just picked up a Mak 90 and SLR 104 yesterday and those are my first AKs so I'm looking forward to learning more about them!
Harry's Holsters Congrats on the new kids!
Harry's Holsters check your trunion they break at the receiver ears
Jon Alarcon which rifle?? I’m curious of your results
Thank god I bought my WASR back when they were $400. It just wont die. There are certain parts I'm fine with them casting, but nothing that's important to the rifles major operations and stress.
AK-50 with forged parts that is going to be expensive but worth it.
For the engineering needed to run a .50 you Need forge hardened metal.
Temper it correctly after making the billet you’ll be fine. The quench process is the critical part along with tempering.
Need to buy this in a kit with an 80% receiver! Ask and ye shall receive? Brandon?
“Your gonna have a bad time” sounded like Paul harrell
Or sans
Or FPS russia.
This is why ak shooters union and Tim from mac got 5k round count before the rifle was stretching apart (go-no/field) gauge just fell in and the bolt closed all the way
I didn't know mac from it's always sunny made Ak's
The term for that Sponge Bob effect in the castings is porosity, we deal with it all the time in the welding field.
yessir
In b4 "RAS47 is fine" comments.
RAS47 is fine when you give it to Terrorists!
5k rounds through mine and no issues.
AK Operators Union does a really great review on the PSAK47 by Palmetto State Armory. The GF3 is a very well made American AK. You would be a fool to call it a bad gun.
However, when it comes to the RAS47, it is indeed garbage 😂😂😂
@@briandavenport8971 same.im almost at 8k.light wear but nothing like what ive seen online as "failures" i am going to upgrade to a vska at some point.but im not running out the door to replace it.its just a meme to hate on them.they have some issues but the later models had beter qc.and for a causal use rifle there is no problem. Sure theres beter. But outside of exaustive abuse you'd be hardpressed to damage anything.they are great "project guns" and arent nearly as bad as the internet makes them out to be.
I like Whiteboard writing stuff...Thanks for helping Raising the Noob AK Guys including me. You and Rob Ski are the Best of Guides to AK .Good Luck :)
PSAK-47 GF3 has a forged trunion, bolt and carrier with all new manufacturing for 599.00
and that is where economy of scale comes in. PSA has so many other revenue streams they can take a smaller profit margin or even run at a loss till they recoop the cost of the forges. Then proceed to make money after that happens.
Ya that's what I was thinking when I found a forged "budget AK for under 7 to $800"... love you Brandon but. "Tell me lies lies tell me sweet little Lies". 🎶🎶
How do you know the PSA rifle has a forged trunnion? I went to the PSA site and looked at the “forged” GF3 trunnion photo and it has a laughably obvious seam line. Those are cast.
@@TheLouHam Forges produce seam lines too
@@jaredjackson1845 when forging leaves seam lines, that usually shows poor forging techniques. And PSA’s own picture looks like casting seams because it’s so perfectly straight. I was just wondering if some gun reviewer actually took one of their trunnions and actually test it, not just endurance test it.
VSKA now has Billeted Trunnions. For those like me that were worried after making an impulse purchase you can rest assured that its a decent AK.
This video was awesome. Explained everything very well. My friends think I'm stupid for paying more for a quality AK. I try explaining to them the differences in metals used in new production ak's compared to surplus style ak's but they just look at me like I'm stupid and making things up. This video will help get my point across. On the bright side everyone I know that had held or shot my ak's has had a smile in their face. Ak's have a sole. Everyone I know that's held and shouldered one knows what I'm talking about.
Seems strange that these days you have to explain all this. I learned in shop class and on the drag strip when factory cast rods went through my oil pan and I upgraded to GN Billet rods.
Some of us young'uns didn't take shop class or metal physics in school before we found out that shooty ban bang rifles are both serious & fun. This info wasn't standard teaching material 30 years ago although it should have been.
This was actually extremely interesting to me. I'm just now getting into AK-47's, and learning the design, construction, and pitfalls of various models. I am coming from a small billet AR manufacturer, and have been very confused as to why American AK-47 rifles have been such garbage, and why no American company has stepped up to make quality billet 8620 steel trunnions and bolts, and perhaps BCG's/pistons, to address the failings of the budget guns. Seems like there is a market for it, and justification for the investment. And as you stated, with a properly outfitted machine shop, production of quality billet parts, offer costs that rival cast, with strength comparable, though slightly less, than forged. Billet receivers with MCX stock mounts on the rear, billet bolt carriers, billet trunnions perhaps with a new AR style barrel mounting system, and a Weatherby Mark V interrupted lug pattern billet bolt while we're at it. effectively creating an AAK-19 (American AK) like the STI 2011 did to the 1911 design. But I digress.....
1:14 In terms of grain structure, we have no grain structure
Dude this was highly informative. Do it again.
Thanks for your honesty. I understand more. Just started out with an Ak,
Jerome Tschirhart same here. Not an expert but Been into AR’s for yeaaars. Barely getting into AK’s
As a fellow engineer (in the automotive sector though) the whiteboard of knowledge videos are the most enjoyable for me. Nice work.
people be like " my RAS47 has 200 rounds thought it and its fine"
I know right, as we do mad mag dumps and laughing at them!
My C39V2 I got used, I put like 500, 600 through it, god knows how many the last guy put through it. I only sold it because I didn't trust it.
Really dig the style of video. We want more!!!!
Can you do one about the different quality of ak parts from Romania, hungry, Bulgaria, China or Russian. Maybe rank them as to which you like best.
I saw ur video about not all ak mil-spec parts are the same and that got me thinking.
I’m extremely impressed with PSA’s GF3! It has a forged trunnion, forged bolt, and forged carrier all for a very affordable cost. I got a GF3 a few days ago and I’m in love with it 🥰
I got mine with the magpul furniture and waffle mag for $600 and am very happy with it. It seems PSA’s biggest struggle is quality control, but if they can best that, they will be an incredible ak manufacturer in the US
Shhh! let them come to the forums.....
But they are gonna have a bad time!!
Glad my AK is made with surplus parts. Important parts shouldn't be cast. Trunnions, bolt and carriers should always at least be milled. Now front sight blocks might be OK to cast to save a few bucks on a budget build but certainly not parts that will send you to the hospital if they fail. Thanks for putting out this public service message!
Can you please make a video on nitrited barrels vs chromed lined??
In an AR especially if your not going to run alot of bi-metal jacketed ammo down it it really dosen't matter in my opinion
In an ak because your for all intents and purposes stuck with your barrel and your going to probably shoot bi-metal 99.9% of the time your want a com-bloc hammer forged chrome lined barrel
It's good to know that Gen3 PSA,the current Riley Defense are both using forged trunnions,bolts and bolt carriers.Both passed the AK Operators union 5000 rd test with flying colors.I'd still opt for a new Wasr because of the CHF barrel.
@Matthew Swartzwelder no way its a romanian WASR then ._.
@Matthew Swartzwelder how could you tell its cast? Maybe the rear trunnion could be cast (worse things have been used to prevent heavier bolts catapulting into some sorry moron's face), but I can never imagine the front trunnion being cast.
@Matthew Swartzwelder huh odd. All I know is the cast trunnion I had was pretty easy to cut through with using a hacksaw. No matter though, because I was going to use it for a straight blowback anyways.
@Matthew Swartzwelder There is no way you have a WASR-10 with a cast trunnion unless it is a rebuild. Cugir Arms Factory in Romania has never used cast trunnions. They have always used surplus MD-63 forged trunnions for the 10/63 and newly forged trunnions for the 10 v2.
Bottom line. No if's and/or buts.
i love the white board of knowledge. i always learn so much. keep em comming mate!
Thanks for explaining why high-end forged knives seem to hold an edge a bit better then their hardness would indicate!
Zee professor is in now. Class is in session 😂 Thanks for the knowledge Brandon 👍
7:23 I just bought a PSA AK-P with a hammer forged front trunnion for $719. I'm impressed with it.
really? They have been sold out for months if not years. Did you preorder yours like 10 months in advance?
@@derklanz1222 I've had this gun for like 8 months. I just went on the site and bought it. It took a couple weeks of checking every morning, but it wasn't that hard.
@@GunsNBudder Well that is good news, but I just haven't seen anything for a long time. They have huge back orders I think.
@@derklanz1222 yeah they're very popular. My ak-p still runs perfectly.
@@GunsNBudder I am torn between at PSA or MOLOT VEPR.
this video single handedly got me into Brandon for years to come
New to the AK world to be honest. I’ve shot all my life, and have shot AR platforms (deepest apologies, Mr Brandon) for decades' since my first trip to the rifle range in boot camp a thousand years ago. On top of doing repairs for people I knew, I have built probably a couple dozen AR-15s in the past 7-8 years for friends or people that friends have sent to me. Im a disabled Paramedic, so doing the repairs & builds gave me something do and something to sort of lose myself in the details of, along with that dreaded pursuit of perfection you begin to feel as you see your own skills and potential improve. What you said about lower end companies taking advantage of people really got to me. Whether it’s just dumb luck or rather the fear of letting someone down (or possibly injuring or killing someone)... I have not & will not give someone a firearm that I’ve worked on if I would be even the tiniest bit uncomfortable letting my son run a thousand rounds through it. It’s a responsibility and really a genuine fear of handing something potentially dangerous over to someone knowing that I might have exponentially raised that danger. I’d much rather have a catastrophic failure happen to me rather than give someone else even a possibility of one.
I’ll never be a huge business or manufacturer. For most jobs I did them at cost + exactly one beer after taking them out to shoot it for the first time. Being a ‘business’ was never really even a thought, and maybe because of that I shouldn’t be so judgmental towards a company wanting to save a bucks here or there. But I can’t really stomach the idea that this happens. If not for the joy and satisfaction of knowing the level of detail achieved & the feeling of accomplishment in seeing someone enjoy it... I don’t know if I’d still be here today. It’s a purpose that wasn’t really there for me for awhile prior to that. Just the thought that there are people out there who allow substandard & potentially dangerous crap to go into someone’s hands, only because the buyer couldn’t afford to or didn’t know how to find or get a decent rifle - well, that eats at me pretty hard. Money is important. We’ve all learned that it’s an unavoidable truth. But how much is saving a few bucks really worth knowing that you’ve sold a rifle to someone that is going to have it most likely fail them? Or at the very least, having it & shooting it end up NOT be enjoyable to them? The nicest thing I can think is that they’ve maybe turned a weekend shooter into a guy or girl with a $600 rust & dust accumulater. Because they couldn’t afford a more dependable rifle, had the misfortune of coming across a shady dealer, and now can’t even part their rifle out for a few bucks because it’s built with crap parts.
Sorry to be so wordy. It’s only that your message here really got to me. We are a bit of a beleaguered community that is back under attack from those who want to take away a pleasure of ours that they’d rather portray as something horrible. You’d think we’d try to take a little better care of each other than that.
At any rate. I’ve always had a sort of nervous curiosity of the AK world. The whole Sov-Bloc “bag guy guns” mystique laughably kept me at arms length. But I’ve REALLY enjoyed your content & the amount of information you’ve provided me I could never thank you enough for. I’ve always really enjoyed the level of detail that firearms & ballistics can involve, and I can often see in your face that you have a similar level of enjoyment. You seem to get it in a manner that strikes me as pretty similar. So thank you... not only for all you’re doing, but just as much for how you’re doing it.
Now for my bedtime scotch, and a little light reading from Hatcher’s Notebook. 😂
Be well, God bless, and take care.
(Again, sorry for the mentions of ARs)
8:00 for "Too long, didn't read version."
Stay true to the big Q..... classic mechanical engineering will always be best.
As a metallurgy graduate I will happily say that is a reasonable basic explanation. Nicely done man.
What did your schooling focus on? I’ve been a machinist for 11years and have always had an interest in material science. What do you do with your degree?
@@kw2519 sadly I got funked over the the car and supply industry died in the uk as I graduated. And the that being dyslexic and autistic, it seems they didn't want my kid of out of the box thinking. So I was stuck in the limbo of overqualified for entry jobs and under experienced and qualified to compete with PhDs and people with 10 plus years under their belt.
It was getting. After 6 years I returned as in counselling for the government to kill the training options with austerity. Then 8 years of trying for any industry job I retrained in 4 months to be a massage therapist. I really wanted a machinist quol but didn't have the money and 2 years to invest in it. Also life was in the way.
Still have the odd dream though.
The cores was very broad 3 years with over 20 hours a week in class and labs, that's 60 to 80 hours of work a week in the final year. Doing all the basics for the hole of manufacturing. So advanced particle and quantum physics; polymer chemistry; basic and mineralogy chemistry; production routes; polymers; ceramics; metals, ferrous and non-ferrous; composites; electric materials; non-destructive testing; destructive testing; crystallography; design mechanics; advanced mathematics; CAD; corrosion; heat treatment; failure finding; process route tracking; process root construction. history of material science and microscopy. Basically here's everything pick something for your post grad to focus on if your brain hasn't melted and we like you enough or your paying. 🤯 I did have a focus on metals as we like each other. Lol.
Sung-Ru Oh damn, I’m sorry that shit happened to you. Have you thought about just taking a position in machine shop at entry level and work your way up? You could also probably get a job as a QA inspector in a machine shop if you learn your GD&T stuff
Yeah that's what I was trying to do. Over quold Exeter.
The problem there is with cast trunnions is the interference fit barrel to trunnion. Should be .001 max. I built a WBP new parts kit and asked for the cast trunnion. Had a .0008 interference fit. Have close to 4000 rounds through this build. Have magnafluxed the trunnion and have found no cracks. Don't get me wrong I prefer forged trunnions and that is what I use in my builds. But if the barrel to trunnion fit is correct I don't see a problem. Just my opinion. Great videos
Cool , Never realized exactly how that all worked , Great job explaining it, and i Hope to own one of your AK-50's when they come out !! Keep up All your Vid's there informative.
As an individual who is a visual learner, I'm a fan of the white board.
such a more humble & informative Brandon.
The Maximum Effort Deadpool shirt...perfect! Great informational vid
I enjoy my ras47, but I'm only ~800 rounds into it. I'll purchase a headspace gauge next payday.
Can I replace the cast parts without having to form a new receiver?
If so; would a Romy G parts kit potentially be a good component source?
I assumed that "made in USA" would mean sexy akm without 922r restrictions. Instead of passing a potential disaster to another end user, I'd like to correct this machine's deficiencies if it makes more sense than taking it out of service.
Thank you for your time and for any leads on reliable information.
Sooo when do we get vibranium forged parts.
Im sold on the intro. Love, love, LOVE your channel. Funny, badass, and VERY informative without droning on and on or using high science verbage.
Your Last Minute Or So At The Whiteboard Is The Man I TRUST & Tune in For
Subbed. Paul Popov told me to
Awesome video dude. I love this type of content. However I've got a quick question. What about Century's milled AK rifle? Would this theoretically hold up better than their stamped AKM clone since it has a milled receiver?
Better than their cast trunnion RAS. But they still have a cast carrier, and over time they can be hit or miss. They’ve been known to lose headspace over thousands of rounds.
Ah right, good point, I was just thinking about the trunnions. Thanks for the quick answer. And next time anyone asks me why I spent a good chunk of money on a Bulgarian AK, I'll be sure to show them this video lmao.
They are cast THEN milled... so basically cast.
@@FrankPizza88 I've had 3 Bulgarian Aks only 1 was straight.To me a quality Ak has forged parts,cold hammer forged barrel,straight sights and trunnion and a tough finish.The 2015 Wasr10 was the only Ak that met my expectations.My Sgl21 and Slrs all had bullsit finishes and 2 Slrs were crooked.Next Ak will be Gen3 forged PSA.
By far the best explanation. Ty Brandon!
Billet is forged into its original form before it becomes billet. The forging you are referring to are stamp forged which is the shap prior to final machine and most are stamped forged two to three times before final machining. Hammer forging is typically done on bar stocks , hence barrels.
I bought a wasr10 & detailed cleaned it. The next day I noticed rust on the front barrel . I emailed century customer service & wanted to know if I should send it in. Or in the long run ,cericoat it
In my local area & just go that route. Do they correctly fix issues or just add more bs? & just hope it doesn’t get noticed?
Thanks for the schooling of the platform. 👍🏼 paid $750 on 3/19
Haha, just spray it with CLP and wipe it off. Seriously a non-issue.
pigpaul you don't deserve ak if you can't stand a little rust
You are generally right, that forged is best, but it's not true to say that cast components are garbage. First off your claim that cast parts do not have a grain structure is absolutely false, cast parts absolutely have a grain they're just more complicated. They usually grow from the cooler regions of the cast part towards the warmer regions. You can actually very very strong parts if you control this. Cast parts have regions where temperature variations as well as shrinkage can change grain structures, which must be controlled with various techniques.
Second off, it's not like all cast parts are bad. Even the soviets switched to cast components in the 70s, izzy front sights, rear trunnions gas blocks, trigger components and a few other non pressure bearing parts where cast. Early chinese AKMs (Reverse engineered) used cast front trunnions as well, until they purchased soviet tooling. There are good cast trunnions on the market right now, like WBP from poland, they've been making cast trunnions for years and it's not been an issue, rob ski put it to the 5000 test and found no issues in the cast trunnion region.
Third off. There are cast guns currently on the market that have no (strength) issues, ruger mini 14, Springfield m1a, etc. These guns have no issues as far as strength goes, and consider the AK lockup is derived from the m1 garand, so this is as close to an apples to apples comparison you can get.
And finally before anyone calls me a shill for whatever, i exclusively build from eastern European parts kits, currently Romanian RPK. The problem specifically with american casting is the cost part, controlling casting grains is actually pretty expensive, the cost diffrence between high strength casting and just forging it is pretty negligible, the cost saving comes from less spindle time and tooling required because casting can make more complex parts. Importantly, no one has ever made a good cast bolt or carrier, which probably means something. However, for specifically trunnions casting is a valid technique to produce, IF DONE RIGHT. Ofc, american manufactures are trying to hit a price point so they can't do it right, which makes the public more weary of a technique which is perfectly valid but applied poorly, and so you end up with people turning their nose up at a whole manufacturing process. It's like if american manufacturers skipped heat treating to save money and people turned their nose up at all billet parts. It's equally silly.
I noticed easily he doesn’t like the comments that give a reasonable rebuttal...plus, he’s trying to sell something.
@Dangerous Amoeba thank you for your post here, personally I think you are spot on. I don't claim to be an expert on AKs, but I know enough about modern manufacturing techniques to know that castings have actually come a long way. Like you pointed out, the problem seems to be generally more of individual companies just trying to cut corners (ahem) cut COSTS and sometimes things get missed or don't get done right.
@@dexm2010 I'm no expert on anything, but i am a tool and die maker, and machinist by trade and mechanical engineer by education. The american companies are poorly casting because poor castings can be done very cheaply and they can be strong enough to last the couple hundred rounds the 'casual' gun person will shoot. It's sad, but it's the case. Really it's unfortunate to see, with how cheap investment casting has gotten in recent years, i really don't think the price point would rise that much if they did it right.
@@prinzeugenvansovoyen732 That's interesting, i didn't know that. Can you provide further reading material? Anything on that, their techniques, tests, alloy choices, whatever else?
Casting is Rugers specialty. But they are good at it. This video should be good advice for some newbie wanting to buy a century cheapo ak.
This popped up on my feed. I enjoyed watching it again, I'm such a nerd.
I like that at the end you showed us everything we need to know in a few seconds.
A true slav!
What about Wasr10 ??
dubvc1 Forged parts, good to go.
Just replace the garbage furniture on it and you will be good to go.
I was thinking of getting a wasr the one century imports is that any better
@@OriginalBongoliath I was fortunate enough to obtain a WASR with the original Romanian wood furniture still on it. It looks great.
Thanks for the exact clarification, I had an idea of the differences, however noone had explained it in detail.
Good primer for newbies who don't understand the differences mfg steel & other exotic alloys.
Oh, man! Mentioning Paul by name. My AK guru!
An honest salesman. My hat's off to you, sir.
Rob Ski on AK Operators Union 47/74 put 5000 Rds thru the same RAS47 platform I own and the only part that broke was the cheap wood stock that I replaced as soon as I received my RAS47... MagPul furniture installed... the test RAS47 survived great 💵. I miss the Wasser 10 I had. Buying another one soon
The more I watch from you the more I like it.
The difference between the billet and the casting is that the billet was cast at 6" by 6" (maybe even 12" by 12") and then passed through a succession of rollers. The roll out ratio is the cross sectional area of the initial billet divided by the cross sectional area of the final piece of bar stock. For leaf springs and draw bars, the higher the roll out ratio, the better grain structure that you start with, so it is probably also true for other steel objects.
Riley Defense claim that they are now using forged part’s since 5/16/17. But I think I’ll just stick with my WASR ether way it hasn’t let me down.
I actually work in steel, and this is actually a fairly decent, if simplified description of steel grain structure.
Very educational video, thanks man. My only AK as of now is the Arsenal SAM7SF and from what I know it’s well made (better be for the $1200 I paid). Anyhow, I’m not an AK expert so it’s nice to learn. Keep pumping out vids man!
I've learned something here. Thanks... Smoke signal sent.
Your handwriting is better than mine
I know this is a few years old. Riley Defense (american) is cranking out ak's with forged trunnion, bolt and carrier for 700ish. Rob Ski ran over 5 thousand rounds through one and it took it pretty well and kept trucking. I like my riley too!!
You've come a long way padawan.
As a blacksmith i was drooling when he held up the block of 4140
1.7225. Sounds like a decent steel.
What do you use it for?
so many love comments. nice. anyway, billet or forged, i plan on buying one. however what i think would be a thing to do if ya get big enough, is like go for like forged if ya can as like a higher tier option ya know? idk. either way have fun man. cant wait to see what ya turn out.
This just took the worry away of having a gun with a bad trunnion, thanks Brandon!
My Zastava m70 zpap has all forged trunions and barrel. So far 1000 rounds and it runs perfect. If ammo ever comes down I’ll run a lot more. Love it. Just subscribed
Please do more videos like this, but can you do a similar video but on the topic of building your own gun, in such as laws and tools from basic, to moderate to hella high expenses.
The sponginess in the cast metal is air pockets in the metal. That's why anything cast metal(for the exception of cast iron) is weaker then billet or forged metal...
Id really like to see Brandon make his version of an AKP. Shorty boi with a 7.62 round. Id much rather buy from him than PSA even though PSA has come a long way. Id like to support Brandon.
You had my laughing in my car while I drove to work this morning. Funny but very informative. Subbed
I've got about 30 years experience in purposely breaking cast iron , demolishing and dismantling machines. I've seen cast iron that was pretty good damned hard. In the end I had to use an exothermic Lance on some of it.
A very good whiteboard lesson, I dun got sum learnin.
Excellent explanation Brandon! PSA is now forging the important parts in their GF3 Rifles. Hammer Forged Front Trunnion
, Hammer Forged Bolt, Hammer Forged Carrier. They run $599 MOEKOV or less (Blem) for GF3 rifle versions.
Good thing the psak's are forged 😅 gave me a scare when you said any budget sub-800 ak would be cast
I watched this video back when it first came out didn't really understand it but now that I've been working in a forge for about 5 months and heat treat for about 7 I understand this alot better lol
bad castings happen more than you would think. i worked in an iron foundry and bad castings came out regularly. naturally we scrapped them but if we had an order for say, 100 castings, they will usually end up running more than 100 molds to account for bad castings. not only are gas bubbles a thing but moisture in the mold will make a mold "pop" and the top & bottom sections will shift so the whole casting comes out goofy.
cant speak for other foundries quality of course. but yeah, castings are ok for some applications, but not firearms. imo.
"It looks like a bastard child of Colossus from Deadpool and fucking Spongebob." I just gagged on my bottle of coke.
I did over 21 years as a production CNC operator- mostly turning centers. Another aspect that affects quality is the amount of substances consumed by the people involved.
Actually back here to reference the grain for a body armor I may work on over the next few years. Might look akin to upside-down pinecone scales.
Kalashnikov usa and century arms both buy forged trunnions from us, which is great, but comparatively I would recommend the kalashnikov usa