James Baldwin and Paul Weiss's HEATED Debate On Discrimination in America | The Dick Cavett Show
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2020
- Writer James Baldwin and Yale Professor Paul Weiss get into a heated debate on discrimination in the United States of America.
Which side do you agree with?
Date aired - May 16th, 1969 - James Baldwin, Paul Weiss
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Dick Cavett has been nominated for eleven Emmy awards (the most recent in 2012 for the HBO special, Mel Brooks and Dick Cavett Together Again), and won three. Spanning five decades, Dick Cavett’s television career has defined excellence in the interview format. He started at ABC in 1968, and also enjoyed success on PBS, USA, and CNBC.
His most recent television successes were the September 2014 PBS special, Dick Cavett’s Watergate, followed April 2015 by Dick Cavett’s Vietnam. He has appeared in movies, tv specials, tv commercials, and several Broadway plays. He starred in an off-Broadway production ofHellman v. McCarthy in 2014 and reprised the role at Theatre 40 in LA February 2015.
Cavett has published four books beginning with Cavett (1974) and Eye on Cavett (1983), co-authored with Christopher Porterfield. His two recent books -- Talk Show: Confrontations, Pointed Commentary, and Off-Screen Secrets (2010) and Brief Encounters: Conversations, Magic moments, and Assorted Hijinks(October 2014) are both collections of his online opinion column, written for The New York Times since 2007. Additionally, he has written for The New Yorker, TV Guide, Vanity Fair, and elsewhere.
#JamesBaldwin #PaulWeiss #DickCavett #Racism #Yale #USA #Debate #Discrimination #CivilRights #Activism #TalkShow #TheDickCavettShow - Zábava
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Which side do you agree with?
James Baldwin has lived a life of being lied to. And he had to confront white people who wanted to rewrite his truth. Of course I agree with James.
What a terrible question that discredits the entire usefulness of the dick cavett show. It’s not about who you agree with, it’s that two serious people with differing opinions can debate each other in a civil manner. They pretty much take turns being right. They each have valid points and they each have weak counter arguments to the others valid point.
@Nick West no one knows how to debate anymore, they just argue.
@@TheBornnaked While of course what you say about what a debate should be defined as is true, nothing Weiss said is right so it's much easier to look at this as the ignorant being enlightened through questions. This is closer to a Socratic seminar where the one asking questions is completely clueless about the subject at hand and has only seen the world through his own interpretation.
All of Paul Weiss's arguments sound exactly like Jordan Peterson today, this did not age well for him considering that pretty much nothing has changed or improved from his time, yet what he is saying would mean that things would have improved a lot more 40+ years later
James Baldwin is a walking Masterclass in how to stay regulated and present in a challenging and polarizing conversation.
I know your comment was a year ago, but absolutely beautifully said❤
@@brielleanyez7113I'm sure you will agree the aforementioned comment could have been written decades ago but it is still a testament to Baldwin using his talents for the greater good for everyone on this planet we all share. Thank God for people like him.
There’s a difference between listening to learn a different opinion and listening to respond
I've been looking for a way to say that. Thank you so much. Exactly the way I think. Listen to learn not to wait to respond.
Weiss seems very insecure and needy.
Paul Weiss demonstrates that concept perfectly
@Torre Person Paul Weiss' "responses" was refuting what James Baldwin's experiences were and the systematic "isms" set in place...Which James Baldwin so eloquently summerized towards the end of this video.
Paul Weiss was responding to what James Baldwin was sharing and speaking of each time...Paul Weiss wasn't learning anything from what James Baldwin was saying...As far as I'm concerned, what Baldwin spoke of was hogwash to Weiss...
Having a difference of opinion is one thing...However, when one totally disregards, disputes, refutes what's been someone's life experiences ect one learns nothing...Ignorance comes into play...
Bottom line is, one can agree to disagree without having to refute what's being said...Having an open mind in wanting to learn, to know and overstand can get a person to this place...
With that being said, we (you and I) can agree to disagree...
@Torre Person The learn part comes First.
I firmly believe that James Baldwin was an intellectual giant with a grasp on himself, his people and the world around him that no one else can comprehend; hence, he can win any argument with anyone. I am in awe of his intelligence.
Let us love ourselves and our people and learn to courageously speak our truth.
His ability to empathically listen to any argument was his most powerful skill in my opinion.
I agree, to hear James Baldwin speak is truly a magical experience. There is an intelligence and emotional sincerity in his voice that is truly unmatched.
Baldwin's patience & his willingness to not interrupt him is that alone testament to his greatness. He personified his intelligence. Class act!
This is like a guy who was born a billionaire explaining to a man born in the slums that personal circumstances play no part in socioeconomic success.
He was born to poor working lass Jewish parents.
á la: "The Secret" visualize to materialize. namaste.
@Stephen Carter please explain
@Stephen Carter I think what Weiss and you seem to misunderstand is that Baldwin is a writer, yes but Baldwin is a BLACK writer so he has to worry about being BLACK first
@Stephen Carter Conservative mental gymnastics = Olympic level mental gymnastics
What kills me is that Paul Weiss is using the same arguments I read every day in the comment sections of CZcams.
Talking points. Same as 45
they've been using that talking point for forever. its called exceptionalism.
@mastadon8215 Baldwin is an amazing communicator he's talking about the problem without being the angry victim that the media pushes today..
times change. grow up
And they wonder why we call them racist
The thing that gets me is the gaslighting. They love pretending like it’s a figment of our imagination when it’s so demonstrably and quantifiably clear.
‘they’ is a very dangerous word in this context, i’d avoid that if i were you.
@@brayden3822 Every word isdangerous online lmfao who tf cares. just say what you want to say
Because the racist elites don't won't black people too understand or know the truth about themselves and get mad when you talk about their people aka white people
@@brayden3822ain’t no way you just said that🤣 i might be living under a rock if somebody gets offended by “they”😭
White people then@@brayden3822
"You want me to make an act of faith, risking my life... on some idealism which you assure me exists in America, but I have never seen."
Preach, Brother Baldwin. PREACH!👏🏾
That statement was absolutely brilliant. It was a drop the mic moment and it shut Weiss up who had to reluctantly agree
And still not seen to this day!!
Educate them brother Baldwin. I wish you were still alive today.
He was really a detriment to so many people and their world views.
I totally caught that at the end. Silence was the answer. It means they had to really think about what he was saying, because what he was saying had no comeback.
When I watch these debates I notice a trend: the one debating against a black figure tends to sweep the issue under the rug or make it less of an issue and it isn't discussing the issue it's sidestepping the issue.
Always
Wiess was extremely dismissive and thus showed his ignorance.
Right on.
Just like they do today...especially most reporters on Fox News
Yeah and when u realize the talking points of privelege by either not realizing or minimizing the issue its easy to see and spot in other systemic issues surrounding class, sex, gender, functionality and so on. Hopefuly if we see it when we are a part of the marginalized group, we can try to check ourselves and our stance when were not.
"My history in this country begins with a bill of sale." I have never seen any footage of Baldwin where I wasn't totally blown away by his incredible mind and his use of language.
Me too! Genius✅
Incredibly eloquent indeed.
well does, I mean literally, Mr.Baldwin s history in the United States of America begin with him being sold as chattel?
Agreed, and this was A very deep statement that paved the way for his agruement
Absolutely.
“…This is the evidence. You want me to make an act of faith risking myself, my wife, my woman, my sisters, my children on some idealism which you assure me exists in America but that I have never seen.”
It’s crazy that this can still be applied to this day.
yes you are right
It's a powerful statement because it's lasted this long and even to this day exploits what this society is, has been and is trying to be again. It's truth.
mind blowing and has a twilight zone feel
@@headhunters8061 “I don’t know what most white people feel. I can only conclude what they feel from the state of their institutions.. I don’t know if the board of education hates black people, but I know the textbooks they give my children to read and the schools we have to go to" James Baldwin
Baldwin shut Weiss up real good!!! That fire still burns!!!
I attended University of Hawaii at Manoa. One of my humanities professors was African American, and she was telling us about how, for a few years, she moved to Paris, France. She told us about how in France, she was free of all the prejudice that she had become accustomed to while living in the U.S.
And this is true I also was
In France and treated
With dignity, nothing like living in the Americas…
"I don't know what most white people feel, but I can include what they feel by their institutions".
This sentence alone is just truly an amazing statement.
It’s an amazing show of racist ignorance from a truly brilliant man.
@@Erockarmy I don't know if Weiss is a racist or not. He didn't addressed what Baldwin wanted to convey, he was hiding the problem under the rug.
Weiss said he looked Baldwin as an author and everything else was "a condition, a problem, created by beagots" that Baldwin, as a intellectual Black man should dismiss all the atrocities done to the black community.
The point is, Weiss was out of his league, thus the Baldwin frustration. His final remark telling why he left the country and the distance/segregation between black and white was spot on.
It really cuts to the heart of the matter and really destroyed Weiss' arguments. The follow up of "This is the evidence, you want me to make an act of faith, risking my life, my woman, my sisters, my children, on some idealism which you assure me which exists in America, that I have never seen" Is one of the best arguments detailing the modern african american experience.
@@vic7939 At best he was a typical enabler, the kind who opposes change and justice because there isn't a problem. All systems of oppression need enablers and apologists in order to function. They are the ones who normalize oppression by downplaying it and claiming that the oppressed are over reacting..
He says conclude I believe
Paul is basically just saying oh because you're successful that means your history is irrelevant. Paul is saying because some people made it no one should complain.
No! What he’s saying is much worse.
He’s saying, “Most of y’all are stupid/lazy. But ur blaming us. Get over it 😒.” He’s thinking that everyone has same opportunities. So, “Stop ur yapping.”
Agreed. Although I believe Paul argument holds more truth today than it did in the time of this recording due to the decrease number of systemic racism institutions ,if any at all. Today a man of color can succeed in becoming a “man” (successful) without having to faced by barriers of racist institutions.
@@leekarfear9677 I agree that the barriers are tilted a little more than they were were during the debate they had then. But and I say without pause that we are very conscious they still don't lay flat for us.
@@CarolinaDoc and the danger from certain institutions may still pose a deadly threat ,,
Its the typical capitalist reply Paul is giving. "Look at you, making it out of the ghetto, it proves it can be done". Imagine if he was talking to a holocaust victim that managed to escape: "Look, you managed to escape from the concentration camp, which proves the rest didn't bother to get out, knowing you did it, so could they have done - if they wanted to".
The fact that Baldwin keeps his composure while trying to explain to this ignorant and angry man, knowing he cannot properly convey his point to someone as blind as him, is something most of us could never do.
ignorant man? what gave you that impression? he's stating what he (himself) feels
not what Baldwin's feels. Baldwin kinda contradicts himself somewhat because he's the absolute opposite of what he claims to be, a successful writer and not
a victim or loser
@@spactick preach.
With respect - and I’m certainly not agreeing with him here - Paul Weiss was not an ignorant man.
Paul Weiss is every bit the " liberal but racially conservative white" that's onstensibly making comments such as yours.
Much like the other "cheek of your ass", seems you haven't aged a bit.
@@spactick Weiss was ignorant on the topic of what Baldwin and his people were going through. The idea that Baldwin's people should just stop talking about race and their problems would go away is profoundly ignorant, and parroted by fools like Morgan Freeman today. Also ignorant is the idea that race wasn't an issue because Baldwin-himself an outlier-had achieved a limited degree of success in a society slanted against his ethnic group.
My respect for James Baldwin has increased by 100 fold after watching this interview! The man he is "debating" makes me want to tear my hair out not because of the numerous erroneous arguments that he throws at Baldwin but because the dominance of his entire approach disproves the very point that he is trying to make -- that there is no difference between he and Mr. Baldwin. His privileged position of perceived Whiteness gives him the socially acceptable right to overrun Baldwin every few seconds. Baldwin's ability and willingness to suffer through this treatment and still attempt to educate his audience is commendable!
Baldwin is clearly the better and more excellent gentleman.
Paul Weiss could have had that dominance towards anyone (as many other academic types) you're Just assuming It was due to the fact that james baldwin was black
Gaslighters always try to tell you what you are seeing or experiencing is not what it is. It's still going on in today's society. White or black, it's still here.
Paul Weiss is lecturing, not debating. He asks questions he doesn’t want to hear answers to.
Exactly he doesn't want to be taught the truth he wants to do the it's not a racially motivated nation
@@TheT151 I believe that weis is white. White people do not "learn" about racism from non-white people. White people are the experts on racism. Learning it , teaching it, and practicing it. Non- white/black people should be studying white people to learn the ways that racist practice racism/white supremacy. I believe we are witnessing weis practice racist again Mr. Baldwin.
He's not too bright. Glad I didnt have any professors this dense in college
@smith lovy By my definition racism and white supremacy are one and the same. The definition also describes a problem that is not localized to this country, its global. When you say "jewish" do you mean "not white"? Are you describing a variety/subset of white?
@smith lovy You just attempted to tell me what MY definition is and you defined a word with that same word. Interesting. Thank you for your time.
Paul Weiss is acting like child here swinging around in his chair with his arms folded, shaking his head, interrupting him and simply refusing _to at least try_ understand his perspective.
What a powerful ending.
you’re so right, the body language is so telling
Baldwin had him squirming. As i said, Weiss did his best to break him to no avail.
Paul doesn't have a clue what's it is like to be a back person like many other white people. You are speaking to deaf ears. It's like telling Satan to be understanding and good. That's never going to happen. It's like spitting against the win when you try to ask them to see your problems they caused. Only God Almighty can fix this injustice and He will.
So so disrespectful.
Baldwin when in on the Dr!!!!!!
The satisfaction hearing him explicitely describe how the situation was (and still is to be honest) is incredible!
Blown away by his calm respect, his courtesy & above all his pure articulation of personal truth.
“My history begins with a bill of sale” - James Baldwin
blame that on the culture he came from not doing a well-enough job of record keeping. the romans, greeks, persians, arabs, chinese, and japanese did that just fine. Why do people blame white people for the failures of a culture the Europeans (at most) exploited? It isn't the europeans that manufactured the selling of africans. They purchased africans who had already been captured by other africans.
cody humble that slavery in Africa predates the arrival of Europeans is not entirely relevant or even unique-in fact, the whole practice was rather incurious. After all, ancient Greeks in the Mediterranean and Peloponnesus took slaves as prisoners of war all the time. Creditors did the same when borrowers could not repay their debts. The economic practice of serfdom or the political concept of vassal states is simply a variation on the idea of enslavement.
The problem is the unique tragedy that befell the black man as a result of his enslavement. After being exported to a foreign land and being denied any sort of meaningful rights, even hundreds of years after his initial enslavement, generations of his descendants have had to bear the price of being born into bondage.
The problem isn’t pre-modern book-keeping practices. The issue is that institutional and systematized racism makes it very difficult for black Americans to stay afloat, let alone get ahead in this country.
@@codyhumble7855 you argument is childish and not only indefensible but also self-serving, and not entirely unexpected.
The best line I ever heard
@@codyhumble7855 Jesus Cody, you really are an idiot, aren't you?
"I don't know how white people feel..but I must choose to know how they feel through their institutions." James Baldwin
Good to know he was racist. It was never a "white institution" it was a success based institution. To apply whiteness to something that has been emphatically harmful to white people is preposterous by its own very notion.
@@Darkyahweh Jim Crow, a result of brainwashing young white children after the Civil War by the Daughters of the Confederacy, was the biggest testament to how much “white institutions” despised their African American neighbors after slavery ended.
@@GeneralLocooo Incorrect... Jim Crow was a result of EQUAL BRAINWASHING of both young white AND black children... it was a neutral institution... and no malice was the result... you are making falsehoods out of liberal talking points of the 60's which was put into books by liberal institutions and arguable as by proof today by the laws being removed and segregation still happening, one could argue that the black community is inherently more racist than the white community as one community is more willing to accept the other as proven by stats. So although the people in charge might be white the institution is truly a black institution ran by white people who would pick a black doll over a white doll if you did the doll experiment to them which can be proven by the political movements as they now explicitly only target and hate white people, specifically white cis men.
@@Darkyahweh that’s a lot of conjecture with no empirical evidence.
@Noah_Beaty oh really? Please tell me, where did ALL crypto currencies for the past decade say "you can't buy me because of your skin color" ... yet TODAY they still make the SAME CLAIM... the TRUTH is that when one person fails they look for an excuse and if they are racist which he was, they blame the other race.
It breaks my heart that we can’t have a conversation any where close to this today.
It breaks my heart we would even still even
need this conversation today
Truth!
james baldwin is a gift to humanity
Paul Weiss trying to gaslight the wrong person.
lol gaslighting at its finest
Soooo true. This video should be linked to explain gaslighting. Of course those responsible for doing it wouldn’t notice.
It’s like the classical example of gaslighting. So true.
Yes Baldwin's face said it all 😂
@@mshill2406 burnt ass huh?
That was a powerful ending. Do not accept the will for the deed. Your actions are your morals, not what you tell yourself or others. Thank you Mr. Baldwin.
Part of the seduction of the magical thinking that passes for civic pride in this country is that the mere theoretical high-mindedness of its ideals are somehow sufficient to erase the effects of centuries of human calumny that went before and that we are, merely because of that espousal, righteous and honorable already with no heavy lifting required.
Damn straight
AAAALLLL OF THIS!!!!
That ending got Paul Weiss silent. The truth hurts.
Your actions are not your morals when your hands are bound. Also, should someone be undereducated do to, say racism, that is not their moral failure.
"You are asking me to take the will before deed" just one of many brilliant lines for a truly great man
The most respectful smackdown I have ever witnessed!
"The problem with speaking truth to power is that it still just leaves you with the truth and them with the power." - Richard Wolf
Truth is power
@Tom Reviere Wow! Now that is the truth!
Power is afraid of the truth.
Damn..
@@DNAAS3 Real truth is power. John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Baldwin straight up slapping him with the truth at the end there. He was such an eloquent speaker.
Would it make you feel better if Thomas Sowell told him life isn't fair and to succeed you mist overcome?
@@anthonyoer4778 replacing the messenger doesn't change facts that white supremacy isn't just a life occurrence.
@@Wiggy321 how far removed from A victim does someone need to be to be innocent? Most US states began abolishing slavery after the revolutionary war. The only systemic racism were in democrat states.
@@Wiggy321 did you know 40% of BLM fundraising goes to the DNC? the same party of the KKK? the same party of Jim Crow laws?
@@anthonyoer4778 you mean Dixicrats. Any of them alive today or in government presently? History also tells us the modern republican party was once the democratic party.
These are my words expressed by James Baldwin. Thank you Mr. James Baldwin and RIP. We miss you.
Thank God for Mr James Baldwin. I can't express my absolute respect, love and gratitude for his real love for the black human being. I will live always with his words in my heart. 💝💝💝💝💝💝
So sad this exact conversation is happening 50 years later.
Just nowhere near as eloquently.
@Michael Oberg people like you is why we are still having the same discussion and still dealing with racists assholes like you.
Not sad at all, this convo should happen everyday with people
@@mimIsra1 oh god i dont want to know what this guy said lol
Tells you exactly why the state of white institutions matters.... because institutions maintain how things go more than any one individual can. People die and are born, and most of their lessons are passed down through institutions, not just family and neighborhood.
James Baldwin is one of the most profound thinkers America has ever had the privilege of producing.
America did not deserve Baldwin.
@@charlesjonesjr1262 Absolutely
Tu hermana kklo9oo te ulmmklk
@Stephen Carter 🤣 stay mad
Not really he's just oblivious towards just racism, extremists. If you want to prevail and make a difference in the black community you have to be well educated
Dick Cavett’s show was popular and successful, and that fact powerfully underscores the depths to which current media has fallen. We desperately need popular media where this level of discourse is encouraged and disseminated. We need to hear Baldwin in our schools and his successors speaking on FoxNews. Instead, we have the Barbie movie and Hannity. We are creating a society of ignorance and retrograde rage over invented stakes.
I like your comment but the Barbie movie has more going on than meets the eye.
This is every conversation in a nutshell:
“That stuff happened to your people decades ago. You can trust us now.”
What a joke considering all the examples of deaths, arrests of people of color for driving, selling water, walking, standing in public, looking at a house being constructed, sleeping in your bed, having the door of your house open, locking yourself out of your house or car. Have I missed any other scenarios?
This man had grace while talking to someone who denied his oppression and minimized him and his peoples' struggles all while still being segregated. I mean wow
Yeah, I agree. He's also so brilliant. In the the end he took what that man had said about dealing with racism and encapsulated it for him in all walks of life and explained what he as a black man experienced, which had nothing to do with pseudo idealism that Weiss talked about as if it was real.
Yes
@@pamelamacneil1331 n
Individuality is the only real prescription to affect any real change in one's life; knowing one's personal history and other historical atrocities are critically important but ultimately will not yield feasible solutions. The conversation shouldn't be about whether or not humans have had the historic capacity to do awful things but what practical changes good people can do, in a less threatening environment, for themselves (in hopes of better affecting others), despite ethic background or whatever label you want to give an obstacle.
Practice makes perfect
I don't know if anyone has won a debate against James Baldwin.
You should go look at his debate with William F buckely lol
@@leonardu6094 I've seen it. My impression was that Buckley lost that one. Buckley didn't fare well against Baldwin, Chomsky, or Vidal. In terms of Baldwin, I've seen his debate with Malcolm X as well and again I think Baldwin won that one. I'm waiting to see a video or hear some audio where James Baldwin was not the more thorough thinker.
@@mpcc2022 I'll watch the debate with Malcolm X. I wasn't even aware there was one. what was the topic on?
leonard u Baldwin crushed Buckley, this is widely accepted. You must be the only one who thinks otherwise.
@@mmlas8683 "This is widely accepted" lol
The combination of eloquence, critical thought, and speed of mind which Baldwin possessed never ceases to amaze.
There are the great orators of whose place and contributions to our history and civilization have been preserved through multiple biographies each.
And then there is James Baldwin.
Not only were Weiss’ points frustratingly narrow minded and privileged, but his inability to let Baldwin speak uninterrupted were infantile attempts to control a conversation in which his arguments were woefully uninformed and riddled with logical fallacies. Props to Baldwin for his patience with Weiss; if this is how Paul Weiss conducted his philosophy discussions, then I’m glad that I’m after his time.
"Every man starts from scratch." Has a man ever said something SO wrong in the history of the universe?
@TheWindAmongTheReeds It implies that your present state is only the result of the work of your predecessors. Your mannerisms, your dialect, your manner of thought, and yes, even your 'means' of wealth and ownership, are first and foremost determined by your familial, genealogical ties. It's why Anderson Cooper never has to really tell the truth or work a day in his life- he's a Vanderbilt. It's why Tucker Carlson can, on the opposite spectrum, get up and whine about 'elites' and other shadowy, nameless figures while also never having to work a day in his life- he's the heir to the 'Swanson' family fortune. To state that *every* man starts from 'scratch' is disingenuous at best.
Every man does
@@victorbergman9169 Unless you get a loan from your father for a just... I don't know... A million dollars!
@@Kopie0830 he started from scratch he might of been rich but personality wise he had to work because he was just another rich kid he had to claim his name and become recognizable across the world
@@victorbergman9169 I don't think we have too work on having a personality Imao, the Trump name was also recognized before him. He just took over his father when he died
YOU CAN BE A YALE PROFESSOR AND BE OBTUSE
Would it make you feel better if Thomas Sowell told him life isn't fair and to succeed you mist overcome
@Men In Black how was Baldwin a racist?
@Men In Black How is Weiss racist?
This is the beauty of these discussions. It exposes the raw truth. However, in today's cancel culture these discussions aren't possible.
@DROPKICK Chester In what way(s) do you think Weiss isn't decent or empathic?
James Baldwin absolutely destroys the entirety of Weiss' argument. Start @ 11:20 to cut to the heart of the matter.
This is very educational. God Bless James Baldwin. He makes me feel proud to be Black.😎
It is amazing that he has the capacity to take such ignorance without rage or tears talking about such intimate truths only to have a white audience clap for Weiss. I clapped for you Jimmy alone in this room. I was so very moved thank you for your voice and your black power.
Yeah, that had to be difficult. Amazing. And a good example.
By the end, notice that he won them over.
They were definitely clapping for him the more he spoke.
Paul Weiss had clearly not learned the difference between an argument and a harangue. Disgraceful behaviour from a supposedly educated man. Painful to watch. James Baldwin was in a class of his own.
@@mclohan Yes they were clapping for him the more he spoke because he was speaking logically and from the heart but with no rage .
He showed class and finesse .
Hope people will learn from him .
Like a true writer Baldwin was eloquent .
James absolutely dropped gems on this man and this man misunderstood him at almost every point.
He misunderstood nothing. He simply didn’t agree with Mr. Baldwin.
@@timprescott4634 agree or not, truth is always self evident, if you cant agree on facts and evidence then you might as well believe world is flat and moon is made of cheese
he was willfully obtuse because being open-minded towards Baldwin's position meant challenging his entire worldview
Cause he was seeing everything through his bullshit
Tim Prescott hey Tim, he seemed to misunderstand Baldwin’s point that a specific group of people (black in America) are fearful of physical harm, and prejudice by saying that all people face challenges and it’s up to each person individually to solve them by going on the journey of becoming a man.
In the area of their disagreement, Baldwin defeated Weiss with one hand behind his brain.
"You think your pain and your heartbreak are unprecedented in the history of the world, but then you read. It was books that taught me that the things that tormented me most were the very things that connected me with all the people who were alive, who had ever been alive.". ― James Baldwin I wonder when Baldwin said this? Before or after this discussion.
It's a terrible thing to have to defend your humanity and present your experiences alone in a hostile environment
Hostile environment?!? You've got to be kidding me. Was this comment made by Baldwin himself? Lol
Hostile? Lol
Look as the sons of Weiss.
I have rarely seen a man so full of himself as Paul Weiss. Every statement he made was followed by a smugness that was palpable. That's why Baldwin kept getting more forceful, with every brilliant point he made, in order to cut through that arrogance.
not to mention cut through being constantly interrupted. Baldwin sat calmly and civilly and listened patienly while Weiss talked. When it was baldwin's turn, Weiss wouldn't let Baldwin get a third of a sentence out before interjecting, basically heckling.
The interchange demonstrated Baldwin's point - He couldn't get a word in edgewise till he finally got fed up and made the man listen. the audience could fel it too - even that 60s white audience.
@@jv-lk7bc If he made him listen, then Weiss did let him talk. You’re completely contradicting yourself.
@@slapmyfunkybass “made him listening” implying he wasn’t listening before. No contradiction there
The spirit of truth grabbed Baldwin and made his last words incredibly powerful.
@@tango31313 Is it’s the spirit or thruth grabbing Baldwin? Or Baldwin grabbing truth? Or even really just that he eloquently narrates truth?
I absolutely love that Mr. Weiss is a STERLING SCHOLAR and has the most baby-brain takes on how racism works. Even more those same bootstraps, "Obama made it so racism is over" takes still circulate in the cultural consciousness today.
There is simply no single person that ever spoke in opposition to Baldwin that could ever be considered his superior in logic or debate. It is honestly awe inspiring.
Agreed, even William F Buckley paled in comparison (pun intended) confronted by him -- and his debate at the Oxford Union Debating Society is monumental.
@@v.c.webster9250can you elaborate ?
Could you elaborate?
"I have a theory that nothing worst could have happened to me there, that had already happened to me here" - James Baldwin
His quotes are gut-wrenching...
Because it's truth. It's sincere. Those who speak truth often express better thru the heart and mind expressing what is real and grounded. We all see it as opposed to some people who TRY to sound like they get it but not really.
They are. But what always amazes me even more when I watch Baldwin speak is that, although I'm sure he had thought so many things through beforehand, the ideas seemed to just pop out of his head in a sort of "as needed" basis. Like a jazz improviser but with meaningful words. If you've never watched the debate between him and William F. Buckley Jr. you should. It's astounding.
@@j.criquette3334 That debate convinced me that Buckley was a clever racist at heart and his rejection of Anti-Semitism was as purely strategic and ulterior as Cromwell’s.
@@j.criquette3334 I recently saw the debate between Buckely and Noam Chomsky, and boy was Buckley shown to be a charlatan of words there.
@@j.criquette3334 :First standing ovation [for Baldwin, not Buckley] in the history of the Cambridge Union debates.
7:57 You can see Baldwin looking straight into the camera thinking, "I've heard this goddamn talking point a million times."
a lot of exceptionalism and whataboutwhoarisms lol.
True dat 🧐
And yet he handled that perfectly. He was amazing.
It's very frustrating to watch someone try to explain something to someone that will never truly understand.
It always comes down to YT ppl always being perfectly fine with unfairness.
It's the most simplified form of these debates.
Weiss appeared to be arrogant, and wanted Baldwin to be gullible. Good job Baldwin
You are right Dav , so right !!!
It's phenomenal when someone deemed a scholar of respect, sounds ridiculous when trying to compare cultures of one privileged and one oppressed like it's a kindergarten talk. James Baldwin is a legend, man.
You clearly don't know his background.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 Paul Weiss doesn't come from a privileged group? Or James Baldwin doesn't come from an oppressed group?
@@user-tk1lf5hi6f first one.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 Based on the idea that he's part of a group that has been oppressed for millenia or something specific about Paul's life?
At least he tried to make sense of what was happening back then, even though it was one-sided in his opinion, an opinion lacking in experience. The good doctor would've had to be in the black mans skin to really understand what it was like, but that wasn't the case when it comes to reality.
A great discussion that is still being had today, thankfully. It seems they were arguing from two fundamental different viewpoints that continue in many different spheres. These are the concepts of acting in the world that IS vs the world that SHOULD BE.
Weiss seems to be making an argument about the way things SHOULD BE. Baldwin acknowledges it and I think, appreciates it as he alludes to escaping his environmental restraints in moments when in other environments that allow him to (going to Paris). However, I think Baldwin's base view is that, when dealing with survival constantly, how do you ascend to acting on how things SHOULD BE? You would be attempting to survive, which usually is acting on how things are. I think both men acknowledge that we need to get to a state of acting on how things SHOULD BE, but this society has put black people in survival mode for far too long.
I wish these interviews would go on for hours
4:18
8:15
The fact that after Weiss' tirades the audience clapped for him, tells you all you need to know about America.
The most shameful thing is it STILL tells you all you need to know about America.
I was thinking the same exact thing
He was talking in circles, and was low key patronizing literally mad no sense whatsoever.
And not because of the validity of mr.Weiss arguments?
That is the America they want to believe in.
You have to admire James Baldwin’s patience in dealing with the other guy!
Indeed. The willful obliviousness and blind arrogance is astonishing. Baldwin is incredibly patient.
@@kimmclarin9756 There were so many telling moments that clearly displayed his stubborn defensiveness. There was one point in which he sat there hugging himself...which said SO much about his own insecurities.
Really? This is not what I’d call an incredibly rude opponent.
I will never not teach Baldwin in my media literacy classes. An incredible rhetorician and thinker across several media.
I love 💗💗 you James Baldwin. Thank you for loving our people
Baldwin is the man. I love how he explains and I love his voice
He also went and lived in France instead of a culturally enriched African country
Canis Lupus
So he didn’t live in West Africa for a time? Wow, one can really learn a lot from YT commenters. Thanks!
Adam Mcgilchrist
He has no idea.
Canis Lupus maybe cos he was successful and wanted to live in more developed place that had less racial violence that that time . Maybe he liked the jazz that was happening as well
@@MrSuperbluesky "More developed" wow okay racist
When the audience clapped after the author question.. its clear that it takes one ignorant comment that is passive aggressive and has attacking undertones, to get an applause but Baldwin has been going off this whole episode with valid point after valid point.
Care to guess the racial color of that audience?
We will never see anything like this ever again. Respect and the ability to allow the speakers to express themselves without disruption from a audience, from a host, from each other. Intelligent in communication and communicating to the viewers. My have the powers that be changed the ability to increase wisdom, knowledge and understanding to complete waste in using the airwaves to learn, to learn about each other and build a better way in understanding the true past no matter what is revealed. Only truth will set us ALL free. The ALMIGHTY said that. And when we’re all free, shouldn’t we share in all our abilities to build a abundant life for all people regardless of nationality, color or race?
Goddamn - James really managed to keep his composure and come back with some atomic bombs on that clearly well-meaning but deeply ignorant prof. It's people like that prof that you can actually get through to, but they come off so grating that it's an incredible feat to not become overcome with contempt.
I’m from the south of Chile and just discovered James Baldwin, I begin to read “Beale Street Blues” and I love every page. The man is a genius.
So happy you found his voice. Like none other.
Now, Imagine if this was a properly managed debate forum where Mr. Baldwin was allowed to answer questions without interruption. Whew!
If you look, Baldwin stayed away from debates which is unusual for intellectuals. He tend to prefer the format where he gets to make the accusations and no one is able or willing to counter.
@@BellicoseNation "If you look" 🤣🤣🤣
@@BellicoseNation I think this is better because that way you don't get lost in emotions and people call you out and ruin what you actually mean because you spoke too much.
the debate at oxford was a lot better than this farce.
Every time I hear him speak, I am blown away by his intelligence and knowledge.
James Baldwin shared his truth with such grace and patience despite Paul Weiss's ignorance. That must have been so difficult. I am saddened that his words are still true.
I admire the patience of Baldwin, if it was me I would have already slapped Paul Weiss.
Lol 😅
He couldn't do that else he'd be arrested, or better yet killed. We've always had to fight with more patience disguised as meekness.
baldwin looking straight at the camera, tired. i love him.
Or just tired of it..
he's like "here we go again with this dumb argument. "
James Baldwin is hands down the greatest James ever.
Also the greatest Baldwin ever
This video is priceless and epic! Should be watched by every human being!
I see that mr. Professor didn't want to answer that last one because James Baldwin shut him down with that one 💯. He had no answers.
Not one! 💯
I never get tired of watching these videos of James Baldwin. He was brilliant.
He’s a crybaby. A man who was successful in this county and was able to travel the world yet chose to still claim victimhood. Todays race hustlers would be proud.
That man tried so hard to teach someone way more self aware than him something he had no need to learn
Embarrassing 😳
@@jjones9822 GTFOH with that nonsense, Baldwin was treated much better while in France.
That DR weiss the epitome of someone trying to tell you about your struggles, your obstacles and oppression and lecturing you about it whilst never have lived it. He is so convinced he knows better when in fact he’s not even listening really to what is being explained to him. Because he simply doesn’t want to. It’s so frustrating but Mr James Baldwin as luminary and deep intellectual thinker and debater is able to respond with patience and grace. What eloquence!
I watched this interview several times and James Baldwin was very patient at the being with this guy trying to tell him how to feel as a Black man in a racist society and then after a while he just unleashes on him to the point they had to go to commercial.
Wow! That man (James Baldwin) is fire!!!! What an incredible person.
I'm really starting to fucking hate that expression. But, yes, he was an incredible person.
jpwjr1199 lolz .
The moment James Baldwin looked down as he patted his cigarette clean and said " I'll use myself, let's go for broke". A powerful moment is near. Absolutely a soul searched moment.
4:30 time stamp
I can watch this over and over again
My second time
Baldwin deserve a movie. He saw a lot back then ppl now couldn’t imagine
Paul Weiss is really blind to the point James makes right here. 11:23 Of course it's different for people because of color. It's not as easy as Weiss thinks it is to JUST be an individual and forget what you look like. The problem is, other people aren't forgetting what you look like and the people who work in the institutions aren't forgetting either.
Exactly!
Thank you!!
I still cant believe he doesn't understand this or is just blatantly ignoring it thinking it lacks significance
It’s like explaining Black Lives Matter to a white person that keeps saying white lives
@@LoftusBlake denial denial denial. Proves that being book smart doesn't necessarily make someone intelligent
The white guy is getting uncomfortable because his layers are being peeled like an onion
hes lucky he had a sympathetic audience, imagine him in front of a neutral crowd in front of baldwin.
Professor Weiss is a great philosopher in American (AMERICAN) culture. Join in!
Can you explain what you mean by layers?
he's actually jewish
@@GerNiels I see.
Just brilliant, thought provoking debate
James Baldwin is an amazing orator. When when Paul asked him the question about being a writer and Baldwin replies I don't like to talk about my self or my writing..(para-phrased) the look of pain and anguish on his face is quite telling...incredible man.
The philosophy students at yale were under-served by having this man teach them for as long as he must have
I saw this interview years ago and it reminds me of the brilliance and eloquence of James Baldwin, who literally left Paul Weiss speechless, symbolic of many New Age and conservative thinkers. I love it. Bravo to the late, great Baldwin!
Good information
that final long statement by Mr. Baldwin was outstanding, truly on point.
Baldwin is powerful
Must watch
Let's be respectful please
Indeed, have watched a lot of him lately. Everything that has to be said has already been said, long ago.
@Adam Mcgilchrist I'm assuming this was just before Mr Weiss arrived. czcams.com/video/WWwOi17WHpE/video.html
@Adam McgilchristI cant agree or disagree with someone's life experience, I can only listen. I believe him. He was probably always the smartest person in the room - this room being no exception. Patience of a saint too.
Wow. I need to read Mr. Baldwin’s writings & learn about him. So brilliant & incredibly eloquent in the delivery of his message.
Damn. What an ending and wonderful debate. I loved how James sat there listening to Paul and his thought process, then turned around at the end and gave him his own thought process backed up with facts and experiences. I felt like I was watching James in a chess match move effortlessly on the board.
I swear, it's like an old acquaintance of mine told me, "you live in a nice neighborhood, so all this stuff about racism affecting all black folk in society just isn't as bad as you make it"! Then I reminded him that the law that reaffirmed my parents right to have me attend the same school as him was only 4 years older than the both of us.
Thus making his point for him.
@@davidcooke8005 Wrong. His point is based in blissful or willful ignorance. I was born in 1958, the law I referred to was enacted in 1954.....Jim Crow and it's cousins across the USA officially went kaput in 1968. From 1968 to the early 70's you had all the social upheavals going on (Vietnam, Civil Rights movement, etc). I went through the Catholic school system....less than 10 fellow black students were in my graduating class and the one before us. Having to occasionally fight with clowns who thought racial jokes were okay if done with a smile and "only kidding" attached. Also, walking through a "white town" to visit a class mate would occasionally be met with town cops or local "concerned citizens" stopping me to ask where was I going, etc. So You and Weiss were/are either in denial, ignorant or willfully ignorant as to what Baldwin was schooling him on. Sad.
@@vincentjenkins9688 Woooosh!
@@davidcooke8005 you are the one who has missed the point, it's the fact that the sentiment that kept black kids out of white schools was one that was so powerful and widespread amongst his parents' generation and his own was that it required federal intervention and legislation. That makes school integration legal, but a law being signed does not magically make the enmity millions of white people hold in their hearts go away. The same angry white people who marched in Little Rock and the same cops who hosed protestors in Alabama not too long ago are still alive, still voting, and raised children that they inevitably instilled similar beliefs.
Mr. Baldwin at the time of this interview is dealing with what some of us today deal with, which are people who do not share your same struggles but are more than prepared to tell you that what you deem as an issue is truly a non issue.
In other words, they have their own struggles, which you are conveniently prepared to tell us that what he deems as an issue is truly a non issue.
"You wanna take 30 seconds to answer that?"
How about a lifetime?
Saved by the bell at the end...