Torque & Angle Explained with a Stress / Strian diagram
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2011
- This video will help you understand the difference between torque and angle. Angle is a calculated measurement based on many factors. It is important to understand both in order to avoid stripping a thread or using a spent fastener.
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Dude, you're a genius. A lot of people turn wrenches, but you clearly understand the principles, engineering, and physics that go into a vehicle. On top of that, you're very good at explaining them to a layman like me. Thank you for taking the time to plan, film, and upload this video.
Thanks Ryan, I'm glad it helps
Glad to help. Thanks for watching and I hope you get things put together successfully.
That is correct. The reason I made this video is because many people say " just add a little more torque to do the angle," but that is so wrong. As you are learning about the eloasticity modulus watch how the curves change with different materials. 20 degrees of angle on a 1020 steel bolt has a different curve than 316 stainless.
Thanks Junkman. I analyze torque and angle data every day. I am able to catch cross-threaded bolts, chips in a hole, dinged threads, worn sockets, and hundreds of other conditions that come up when a fastener is installed. Thank you for watching and your generous comments. I watched your videos and we both run on the same juice....wanting to teach what we know. Thanks again!
Outstanding. I have never really understood the torque to yield untill you explained it the way you did. Thanks for your efforts.
The videos I make are driven by phone calls I receive. When I made the 3.4 head gasket video I had hundreds of calls & had to explain angle and torque-to-yield fasteners to most everyone. I analyze torque and angle data every day in an engine plant and it is immensely important to understand what it means. The data can tell me if there is a cross-threaded fastener, chips in a hole, or a bad part. It is an intricate science, I'm not an expert, but I tried to make it easy to understand. Thanks!
Again, I agree, but I do not think many torque to yield bolts are tightened using just torque. We could both make this very scientific, but I'm trying to keep it simple to answer the types of phone calls I get. I could make a video on all sorts of metallurgy, but it would be boring as hell. Thank you for your comments!
Thank you a lot, Pete. With this information I can go ahead with my repair in confidence. Congrats on your solidarity.
Glad to help
That is awesome...thank you my friend. This is one of the most commonly misunderstood things. I wanted to help people understand why angle is so important. I live with complex torque and angle programs every day. It is amazing how much you can get out of a properly installed fastener.
Thanks so much. I get asked about the difference all the time so I made the video to help people understand. Saves a lot of broken bolts and stripped fasteners.
I learn something new every day. Sounds like a neat torque wrench. I know that feeling you get when you are sure you are getting ready to strip a thread and you just aren't reaching torque...and then strip! A little practice will give you that confidence back...Cheers!
What a great teacher your are. You made it very easy to understand the difference between the two. Thank you much.
One of the very best engine builder tutors. It's one thing to know your craft but also another to be able to explain so well. I hope you get some reasonable monetary return. You deserve it.
Plus you like Fords.
Thank you very much Mark. to quote Einstein, if you can't explain it in 5 minutes, you don't understand it. I try to make things easy for everyone to understand.
These clips are among the best to watch simple accurate explanations love the channel
Thank you
As someone new to the fastener industry, I have to say this was the most helpful in explaining torque and angle- thank you
Thanks Stephanie, you might like my video about fastening
czcams.com/video/qV41SNntPxo/video.html
czcams.com/video/XlNig19tWg8/video.html
3:25 By this point in the video, I'd already learned something very important, liked the video, saved it to a playlist and subscribed. Dude, you're awesome.
Awesome, thank you!
DEEP INFO! Pete your the real deal, you remind me of my heavy line teacher (who was also a professor in automotive technology) when i was in automotive school. Thanks for breaking that down and keep on putting out the great content God Bless.
oldskool funk Thank you my friend. I really try to help with things that are important to understand. It's more than just a simple, 2 second explanation sometimes. God bless you too!
Thank you very much for the good and clear explanations, as well as the explanation with kindness and interest, and for helping the advancement of science for the advancement of humanity.👏🙏🌹
Thank you my friend. I can tell you that every fastener on a vehicle has a rundown strategy that is electric. There is not a single impact wrench in any plant that will be used in assembly that runs forward. The are used for teardown only. Every fastener is installed with a computer controlled torque gun that has complex programs that monitor torque and angle data, and they are extremely accurate.
I am going to use this in my class on Monday!! As Always, great stuff!
awsome explanation MR.PETE....thanks for that info and putting on video for the world to understand ....great graph and calculations ......!!!
Very well explained & thought out. Great job & thank you!
Hey great job on the the torque and angle topic, vary nice discription! I'm a license tech and I even learned a little something from that! Great job thanks for sharing.
The extra 30 degrees applies an additional clamp load to get the fastener closer to the yield point and maximum holding pressure.
Pete, Great info. I'm about to do head gaskets for the first time and I found your video during my research. Keep up the good work!!
Awesome! Good luck
That thing is gonna blow.
Thanks for the great explanation! Enjoyed it!
Thanks my friend
I agree and you are correct. However, the main purpose of this video was to emphasize the difference between torque and angle. Some people make the mistake of adding a few more pounds of torque to makeup the angle. This can be catastophic. I just want to make sure nobody gets hurt from an improperly tightened fastener.
This is a great video. Thank you very much.
finally somebody has explained how it works, thanks pete.
Thanks my friend, it's important to understand
Great to hear this simplified explanation. Very well explained! Ü
Thank you for taking the time to execute this simplified explanation. My takeaway is that, in layman's terms: 1) You torque a bolt to a specific predetermined value and stop then, 2) You turn, torque or tighten the same bolt a little or a lot more using another tool called an angle gauge and stop. Questions:
A- Should one presume that the torque value is necessarily set at the maximum torque point for a given fastener? and therefore the degrees values = the point at which the bolt begins to stretch?
I am torqueing an aluminum cylinder head to an aluminum block. The bolt specs are:
Cylinder Screw M11, Service Limit: 148.5 mm (5.846 in.). This is what the shop manual instructs:
"First torque to 40 N*m (30 lbf*in).
Then tighten screws turning an additional 120 degrees rotation with a torque angle gauge and finish tightening with a 90 degree rotation. Torque screws to 10 N*m (89lbf*in)."
My understanding is:
Step1: Torque to 40 N*M, then
Step 2: Rotate 120 degrees, then
Step 3: Rotate another 90 degrees, then
Step 4: Torque again (another) 10 N*M
Am I understanding this correct?
That's the way it's written, but that does not sound right
Thank you....it is very important to understand to make sure you put fasteners in correctly.
Hey Pete I have a Mazda 626 2.5L and the torque says
1. 17 ftlbs
2. 90 degrees
3. 90 degrees
that seems really low for the head bolts does that mean the bolts are torque to yield?
oldskool funk Yes...they are torque to yield. It may seem low, but the angle applies the additional clamp load.
Ok thank you Pete, I really appreciate the response. keep the great videos coming, Right on.
Yes. What you are doing is called "conditioning" the fastener. When you do this you must use new bolts. The purpose of this step is to get all of the threads on the bolt and in the hole "lined up" so to speak so the torque and angle step is secure. Go to 22 and then back off a couple turns. Then torque all to 14 in the specified order. The add the angle in the same order. If you don't have an angle gage turn the wrench from 12 to about 5 o'clock in one continuous motion. Nothing is dumb.
Great Job, well explained and i learnt a lot. Thank you!
My Karma is strong because I really want to teach and help people. The example you gave is one I hear often, which is why I made this video. A lesson to anyone who reads this, NEVER re-use a fastener that is torque to yield. Using that method stretches the fastener and puts it close to failure, Using it again is a guranteed failure. Thank you for sharing your experience Leigha...you Karma will help others.
Thanks for this extensive explanation. Will help me in getting the cylinder head job done right.
+Kaktus Jack Thank you
Thanks for the thorough explanation of the tightening force applied to a screw, and what happens in relation to the laws of physics. It is very well explained.
Thanks my friend
Best ever explanation on subject of tightening.
Thanks for your reply Pete,my wrenches are an aussie make ,i dont know if you know them , Warren and Brown, it has a beam which deflects on to as set value and clicks out a spring loaded pin which "clicks' and the pin never popped. I think ill have to experiment on some test fasteners to get a feel for it, but it sure shakes your confidence ,this was a pretty simple job and i stuffed it.Keep up the good work.
Yooooooooo!! thanks a lot for all this info, I was really really confuse with all this angle/torque situation many manuals say, I was wondering if it has to be with plastic and elastic deformation but I never knew about this graphic you explained, really helpful info and I'll make sure to measure those nuts every time I have to open a engine for first time and shows signs of being poorly assembled. I'll be explaining this info to more people and try to avoid this overtight situation, it's sooooooo common here in Latinamerica, I saw people assembling engines without a torque wrench or proper tools, them end up lasting a few thousand miles... Really good info, thanks a lot!
Thank you for the comment my friend
thanks pete, should be right now ill get a angle gauge and figure it out; should i prep the bolts and holes in any special way. what do you think about those digital tourque attachments like a little box that you can use with any ratchet ,are these a good option to a tourque wrench, ihave a 1/4 drive and a 1/2 drive deflective beam tourque wrenches but im pretty sure the 1/2 inch needs callibration, they are quality tools? keep up the good work.
That is the most common question. It is tough to wrap your head around the fact that angle has no relation to torque. Angle is a different calculation for every fastener material / base material combination. Toque is a resistance to rotation, angle is a clamping force, two totally different things.
Great video. Thanks.
Hello. Very Complex video, great job :) I work as an engineer, daily calculate bolt connections for large industrial gearboxes acc to VDI 2230 german standard. There it is different: We never calculate bolts up to yield point, because due to yield you can loose pretension force in the bolt. Normally, we calculate 90% bolt utilization, that means 90% of yield stress. this is partially because there are many factors which are uncertain during calculation (torque wrench measure tolerance, friction coeficients between mating surfaces...) and because of that it is hard to determine exact final stress in the bolt, so there is an margin to avoid yield point.
That makes sense. I would not want a large industrial bolt to be tightened to yield. Thank you for sharing that.
Hey Pete good stuff thanks for sharing. I have a question though. I understand the theory of the stress & strain and where the temporary load or angle yield of the fastener from point A-B means what I'm trying to understand and maybe I sound like a noob but is how do you know when you get to point A? the beginning of the angle is it after the maximum torque specs? because you mentioned torque is a different calculation then the angle calculation.
Nice.
I have a car that I bought used that had the "torque to yield" crank pulley bolt (a $3.00 part) re-used by some numb-nut shade-tree mechanic that suddenly failed and cost me a $7000 engine.I find myself wishing that he'd taken the time to check out a good youtube vide or two like this one, beforehand.
Your hard work didn't help me in this instance, but I am hoping that there is at least one other person in this world who can avert that nightmare. Your Karma is strong.
Torque to yield fastener specifications most common call for a torque and angle. Like 110 ft lbs with 95 degrees of angle. You can torque in sequence in stages, but the angle must be applied in one, continuous motion. I have never seen a 35°+5° spec, but I would do the 35° in sequence on all bolt and add the 5° as a second step.Thanks for watching!
56 Nm is not too high for a 10mm bolt, however, anything, especially grease, will shift the torque curve later in the tirghtening sequence and definitely cause a thread to strip. A fastener must be dry unless the manufacturer specifies a lubricant and different torque settings. Unless you have a unique deflecting beam torque wrench, you will not hear a click. You have to watch the needle and stop when it gets to the right torque. Clean threads and have faith in the wrench.
This is awesome!!! How could anyone give a thumbs down unless they don’t understand. Thank you so much.
That's a great question, people just like to hate I guess.
I have an idea. Because the information being presented is incorrect. Thumbs down.
This video is priceless! Thank you
You're very welcome!
Very informative!
Very informative Professor Pete. Now I know how to torque my nut at the right angle thanks to you. And to think I was doing it wrong all these years. :D ~Todd
I agree with you. I have awesome electronic torque wrenches, but for the average guy using it once avery few years a Craftsman will suffice. Thanks for the comment my friend!
Let's discuss. Torque can only be measured if there is an equal and opposite reaction. You are correct. Equilibrium must be achieved only if a force is applied. I think we are close on the definition. I enjoy the discussion. You are very astute.
Very well explained video. I work in the Marine Business and all replace any tighten to angle bolts. You just can't walk back in case of failure of a bolt.
+Charles Kettering Awesome. It's a long swim home
Amazing video--I agree with Auto Body Everything! I've long known about torque angle specifications and that they are to be used in some applications but never understood why they're different from simple torque wrench settings. Pete's Garage makes this easy enough to grasp without delving into an entire course of study.
I'm sure the thumbs down are from those who have nothing better to do than bash others or simply don't understand---which I don't understand but WTH huh? :)
Thanks so much Pete's Garage!
Thanks my friend, I try to make things easy to understand. It's not helpful if all I did was try to impress everyone with fancy words. We're all here to learn.
@@PetesGarage Always glad to thank or compliment those who take their time to help others!
at first i was confused but it makes perfect sense. this explains why you need an angle to torque (because the equal opposite force changes as you get to point B and then to C) head bolts properly and why head bolts should always be replaced.
Very good
I can't believe I've never heard of this before. Thank you
I learn something new every day
Thank you....it's all about helping each other my friend.
Thanks so much. Torque and angle is someting that is very important, but rew people understand it. It's great to hear good things from a professional such as yourself. Just wondering....what did you learn?
Thank you....this is actually a very simple concept, but not so easy to explain in a non-technical manner. I get many calls from my "Blown Head Gasket" video from folks asking about the angle on the head bolts. I had so many questions I decided to make this video to explain why angle is important and why new head bolts are required. Everything I do is to try to help and teach. I may not be a TV spokesperson...but I think I get the idea acrosss : > )
Awesome explanation!!! Congratulations !!! Gonna show it to my students
Awesome! Thank you!
Great vid, CoolCarsHotGuitars. What's your opinion of electronic torque wrenches "with angle"? IOW, digital readout torque wrenches that can apply angle specs as well as torque. Are these tools "smart" enough to know the difference between deflection of the torque wrench handle and the turning of the actual fastener itself--through an angle, after the preliminary torque value has been met? (Deflection of torque wrench handle isn't a problem with a mechanical torque angle gauge.)
Thanks a lot, I knew the operation but had no idea what was the purpose to add angle after torque tightening.
Thanks... That is one very nice video, very clear...
Mechanical engineer here...I love it when guys get technical when talking cars.
I worked as an engineer for GM Powertrain for a long time. You may enjoy this video czcams.com/video/qV41SNntPxo/video.html
Great video thanks for taking your time to explain this it was a great help
+Alfredo Luciano Thank you my friend
Great video. Many thanks!
Thank you
I went to your page hoping to find some technical videos on the subject. Good stuff on lifting weights.
You don't sound like a noob....you can't know everything...Lord knows I don't. You are 100% correct. As long as you do not exceed the maximum torque for the fastener you will not enter the yield phase. As long as you know the fastener material, grade, and size you can look it up. Any fastener that has angle applied to it has gone past "A" and has started to yield and must be tossed out when removed. Great question!
Super useful, thank you for educating me.
Yuo are very welcome
Great video, many thanks. At the age of 70 I thought that I knew all about torque settings!!!
+William Scurlock You can never know everything. I learn something every day. Thank you my friend
thanks again pete i think ill get a digital atachment for my wrenches because i dont trust the 1/2 beam ,you have a really cool tube here i just havnt had time to look at everything , and im still figureing out this damn computer!!!!!
Excellent explanation, many thanks.
+Falk Guthert Thank you my friend
Beautiful video. Thank you Sir.
Thank you....glad it was understandable
Super explanation. Thanks so much.
You are welcome!
well done! well explained.
Hey Pete ,got a problem here thats driving me nuts...over tourqued. I asked you a question a while back about the angle and you set me right .My problem is i got my tourque wrenches calibrated ,very technical certificates ,temperature test carried out and so on ,cost me over 200 bucks,results were very good.Im rebuilding susspension on a motocross bike , doing the top shock bolt up and ,i knew it looking back,but i stripped the bolt . Its a 10 mm bolt ,plain washer,u flange nut it had grease on
Great explanation, thanks.
Thanks my friend
Thanks! Really helped me to understand yield and will apply in the field!
+Logan O It's very important to understand when you are using torque and angle. Fastening is a science
+Petes Garage Yeah, it's essential as we're learning this stuff for wind turbine maintenance. Anyway, they never drew the simple graph you did which made it all make sense. Thanks again!
hi Pete, I'm changing the hg on a bmw and the oem head bolts are m11 with instructions to tighten to 30nm +90º +90º, since I don't have a way to measure these angles accurately, I used the torque setting and then gave it 80nm instead of the angles, but now I see there's more to it regarding this angle thing and i'm afraid the clamping power is not optimal Is there a way to tighten the cyl head giving the approximate values intended through nm's only? thanks a lot and great video.
Ricardo Nunes There is a way, but it takes tons of math. You can estimate the angle. 90 degrees is simply a quarter turn of the fastener. That is pretty easy to do with a wrench. 80 Nm is almost 3 times the suggested torque. The resultant torque from two 90's may be a bit higher. If you're worried you can re-torque them. You can do this us to 3 times on a torque to yield fastener.
The presenece of anything that acts as a lubricant will shift the torque window so it acts later on the curve. There are additional calculations to account for these circumstances. Usually threshold torque will be measured later in the rundown sequence.
Hi just curious. When a bolt passes point A towards B and then loosened, is it evident by measuring compared to new, and when it passes B will it always show evidence?
Nice Video Petes..
Great video and incredible explanation! I had no idea of the science behind it all. Subscribed :D
+CrimsonBradders There's much more to it. Watch this video about fastening
czcams.com/video/qV41SNntPxo/video.html
There is a LOT more to it than torque and stretch bolts as aluminium castings are usually porous. To get around this problem, castings that are subjected to pressure are Vacuum Varnish Impregnated. If the cylinder head is skimmed this VVI layer will be lost although there is a company in the Manchester area that will re-impregnate castings. Empirical results with the Peugeot 106 diesels indicate that the original head gasket will last for about 50,000 miles but replacement gaskets will only last about 30,000 miles. Of course the alloy in an old engine will be impregnated with oil. The small car to have in the Peugeot range was the now classic 205 with the iron engine as that was a horse of a different colour! 250,000 miles was quite possible and the extra weight on the driving wheels could be very useful!
Well explained and much to think about .
If your torque wrench is calibrated or if you use the degree tool and follow the chart on torque & stretch specifications you have other factors to consider . The quality of the threads on either the nut , bolt or machined part . We are left with trust of a manufacturer to produce a quality part . The metal , threads and heat treating process have to be consistently the same . This to give repeatable and consistent torque & stretch applied to each nut & bolt .
If you are blue printing an engine that will be pushed to its limits , these are some of the many important things to consider .
It really doesn't matter if it's blueprinting or not. It applies to all fasteners
Cheers. Very informative 👍
No problem 👍
Cool....what class?
very well explained, clear and precise
Thanks John
Anti-seize compounds contain nickel to reduce galvanic corrosion. It will act as a lubricant as any other material would. There is no rule of thumb. Every fastener is different. The presence of anything acting as a lubricant causes the resultant torque to be lower. The threshold torque starts later so the angle can go past yield. I think you'd be safe with a 10% drop. Torque/angle applies maximum clamp load so loc tite is useless. Nothing should be applied unless the manufacturer recommends it.
Thank you very much your video it was easy to understand. So when they say 35°+5° you angle to 35 all the torque to yield bolts and repeat and 5 to get 40° total.
Amazing, thanks
So, we just touched on this in my mechanics of materials class, though we're staying in the elastic region for now. Force per unit area is equal to young's modulus multiplied by the change in length divided by the unloaded length. With a little bit of algebra, and some knowledge of your bolt threads, you can make some neat things happen...
Awesome video, helped a lot.
Glad to hear it!
kinda understand, got a dirt bike states to tighten head bolts to 22ft/lb remove then retighten to 14ft/lb then tightenfurther to specified 150 angle, does this mean torque all the way to 22 then completely loosen then torque 14 and then add 150 degrees. iv never used angle on head bolts or anything for that matter,should these bolts be renewed, thanks for the vid ,hope this dosnt sound to dumb.
Any electronic tool is fine as long as it is calibrated at the recommended interval. I use some electronic torque wrenches and they are pretty neat..and yes they can accurately measure angle. A good one is very expensive but the manual method is just as good.
Thanks for the video. A question about lubricating cylinder tty bolts. Does that push the bolt beyond the elastic limit and hence have an impact on the start and end yield points
It could depending on the fastener, it will not likely lead to ultimate failure
Thank you!