Athlean-X & Mentzer are WRONG! Pull-Downs / Chin-Ups DON’T Work Biceps at Both Ends!! (THIS Does) 💪
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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Key Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:35 Error #1 - Shoulder Flexion (Pull-Downs Don’t Work It!)
0:53 How to REALLY Work the Biceps at the Shoulder
1:33 Position vs Resistance Examples
3:15 What About the Eccentric Phase?
4:51 Why Should You Believe Me?
6:13 Error #2 - Active Insufficiency
6:53 Error #3 - Supination
8:42 Intro to Regional Hypertrophy
9:42 Biceps Regional Hypertrophy - Key #1 (Biarticular Effect)
10:31 Biceps Regional Hypertrophy - Key #2 (Supination)
11:31 Specialized Supplements You’re Not Taking
12:13 ProHealth Longevity & the Importance of Personalized Nutrition
13:58 Fitness-Tip Friday Newsletter
===
Athlean-X recently quoted a bodybuilder named Mike Mentzer in saying that “the close-grip palms-up pull-down is the best BICEPS exercise in the world, better than any curl you can do.” He even called the chin-up, which is the same underhand pull movement, one of the only 2 bicep exercises you need. Because, according to him “It applies the stress to the biceps from both ends because we’re going into that flexed shoulder and bent elbow position.”
Error #1 - The pull-down and chin-up do NOT work the biceps at the shoulder! It’s physically impossible.
The biceps perform elbow flexion at the bottom, and shoulder flexion at the top, and it is essential to work them at both ends, because that has regional hypertrophy effects on the biceps. Working them at the elbow preferentially works the LOWER biceps, while working it at the shoulder work the UPPER biceps more.
But a pull-down or chin-up combines elbow flexion with shoulder EXTENSION!! The exact opposite of what the bicep does!
To work the biceps at the shoulder, you need resistance against shoulder flexion. Here that’s the dumbbell pushing down on the upper arm, forcing the shoulder flexors like the upper biceps and front deltoid to work against it.
During a pull-down the shoulder’s in a flexed position, which may trick you into thinking you’re working shoulder flexion, but there’s nothing pushing down on the arm! The resistance - which is what matters - is the cable pulling up on the arm, forcing the shoulder extensors, like the lats and long head of the triceps, to work against it.
This can be confusing, because the shoulder IS in a flexed position. But the position itself doesn’t tell you anything about what muscles are being worked in any exercise. It depends 100% on where the resistance is coming from!
What about the eccentric phase? The shoulder is being flexed then, right? Yes, but it’s passive shoulder flexion because there’s still no resistance against it. Think of it this way, does the eccentric phase of a push-up work your back because your arms are pulling being retracted? Nope. Still works the chest, just concentrically then eccentrically.
The fact is that if you’re doing a pull-down or chin-up, nothing you can do, whether its overloading eccentrics, adjusting the angle of your elbow, or how far back you lean… nothing, can change that fact that you’re working shoulder extension. Not flexion.
Error #2 - Having the shoulders flexed and elbows bent at the same time - like they are at the bottom of a pull-down or top of a chin-up - actually puts the biceps into active insufficiency. So at this point of the exercise, even the elbow flexion aspect works the brachialis far more than the over-shortened biceps.
Error #3 - Having the forearms in a supinated position and working supination itself are two completely different things!
In order to work the biceps more than the other elbow flexors during a curl, there has to be ROTATIONAL resistance against supination! That’s what it does that the other flexors don’t. A pull-down or chin-up doesn’t provide that.
![5 Key Lat Training Secrets! EVERYTHING You DIDN’T KNOW About Working the Latissimus Dorsi [5MM Lats]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hnp58RGi8uA/mqdefault.jpg)
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@@nomnomyourmomyou must be in Jeff's family.
You blast everyone that calls out Jeff if he's wrong. No matter what you say, Jeff has been wrong before but he is not wrong much. He doesnt need you being a troll and taking up for him and bashing anyone who doesn't agree with him on everything.
@@nomnomyourmom Have you ever been told that you are an annoying, know-it-all little guy?
@@nomnomyourmom
You are a jerk!!!!!!
You make me laugh
It's sad that there are people like you in the world,
@@nomnomyourmom Now you're making up stuff. I Have always known the long head crosses shoulder. Id put you to shame with my knowledge of the body. You're Just a jerk trying to make me look bad. Dont reply to any of my comments, you are a waste of my time and anybody's time.
1. The exercise at 0:13 is not chinup, but a more difficult version, check it again.
2. That's not the reason at 0:18, that's actually an entire different video titled "STOP, You're Training Your Biceps Wrong!"
3. The problem with this video is thinking Jeff claimed Chinup or Pulldown trains the Elbow Flexion and Shoulder Flexion functions of the Biceps, when in fact Jeff was talking about training the Elbow Flexion function while having Biceps in the shortened position (Flexed Shoulder).
He literally explained in the video:
"Why? Because I could apply good tension in that shortened position, with the arms up elevated into shoulder flexion and having that flexed elbow"
4. At 9:45, it's actually triarticulate, crossing three joints not two: shoulder joint and two elbow joints
5. At 10:28 and 11:09, you don't have dynamic supination but you CAN have static supination (Overcoming Isometric) which can increase Biceps' activation easily.
That's why you complement DB Curls (dynamic) with Barbell Curls (static)
Interesting. I stopped weights and did only pullups for biceps for two months and my biceps got noticeably bigger.
Well your triceps are a big part of your arm
@@CS-ww3bsTroll😂
How many sets do you do? Or do you do til failure?
@@jodezod usually not to failure. It varies, sometimes a few sets every day, sometimes reverse ladders, like 12,10,8,6,4 two or three days a week. Sometimes use a band so I can do more. I do chin ups, inverse rows, diamond pushups, decline push ups, and lunges. Look and feel better than using weights.
@@theguy4615 respect bro
They absolutely work the biceps. How do I know that? My biceps are sore and have a major pump after my chin-ups and pull-ups.
Glad you agree with him. 👍🏿
You said at both ends of the biceps, not that they don’t work biceps.
Same here.
Work but how much? Not enough for anyone past begginer stage
I can bang out same reps the days after 8-10 sets of curls , my amrap for ring chin ups is just poor +25kg x 5 [85kg bw]
Yea i get some pump but the stimulus you get from 3 sets of that is like what ? 1 set of curls , definitely not enough
As an addition to get more stimulus for biceps it is fine , even doing all pulling work with supinated grip is still not enough , just a bonus , same as CGBP for triceps
[Can not answer comment bellow for some reason , tried twice]
Gymnast do not get their biceps only from pull ups, but also all the straight arm work they do , all the skill str.a. work they do , rto push ups , dips , planche , maltese push ups. Extreme amount of time biceps is in stretched position. That is why , not just pulling work , do not expect gymnast biceps with only pull work , most of them or probably all that you think of can do pelican curl , maltese push ups. They get extreme stimuli from all the work they do.
@@Txtal I respectfully disagree. I think that the main reason that gymnasts have huge biceps is because of all the pull-up/chin-up type of movements that they perform. Many (most?) generally don't do curls.
Gymnasts have testified to pull-ups being the reason why their biceps are so big when done correctly.
Gymnasts also do a lot of reverse grip planks/planches, reverse pushups, ring holds, reverse bridges, etc, all of which work biceps with the same physics as the upper movement he's describing.
He also doesn't say you can't get big biceps by doing just chinups or some other exercise - he's saying this is a more efficient movement that hits both insertion points.
Gymnasts that have big biceps is because of the genetics there born with because plenty of them don't have big biceps and some don't really have good physiques
@@trapps75 most of them i mean most like huge percentage of gymnasts have big or atleast well shaped that's not all genetics
@@Cxop0201 your shape is determined at birth nothing is changing that
@@trapps75 lol 😂 tell that to most of the gymnast who born skinny and way better and well shaped than average roided bodybuilder 🤡, most gymnasts have way better body than bulkyass bodybuilders , stop coping and stop blaming everything on genetics 🧬 when you know bare minimum about it
1. The exercise at 0:13 is not chinup, but a more difficult version, check it again.
2. That's not the reason at 0:18, that's actually an entire different video titled "STOP, You're Training Your Biceps Wrong!"
3. The problem with this video is thinking Jeff claimed Chinup or Pulldown trains the Elbow Flexion and Shoulder Flexion functions of the Biceps, when in fact Jeff was talking about training the Elbow Flexion function while having Biceps in the shortened position (Flexed Shoulder).
He literally explained in the video:
"Why? Because I could apply good tension in that shortened position, with the arms up elevated into shoulder flexion and having that flexed elbow"
4. At 9:45, it's actually triarticulate, crossing three joints not two: shoulder joint and two elbow joints
5. At 10:28 and 11:09, you don't have dynamic supination but you CAN have static supination (Overcoming Isometric) which can increase Biceps' activation easily.
That's why you complement DB Curls (dynamic) with Barbell Curls (static)
Yes 💯👍🏼 I call BS on this Dr Gains video. Never take fitness advice from a guy that looks like he barely works out (Dr Gains).
lol you destroyed Dr Gains video... good job
This is why people get so confused. there is always info out there contradicting other info we learned. Its frustrating.
Do pull downs effectively work the biceps?
@@RSG71 Gymnasts arms certainly suggest they do.
Doc, the results I've gotten from your single arm twisting cable curls, forearm, & brachioradialis have been excellent. Thanks again
Are your results strength or size - thanks
@@Enthalpy248 Size
That is something I want to know as well.
Great to hear!
Dude I call them telephone curls from that video it's amazing exercise
Regional hypertrophy and the mechanical stimulus in its sense for each muscle separately is an interesting topic. We'd love for you to do such a series😊
I was always confused how the eccentric of an exercise works, you really made it clear. Thanks 👍
This makes sense. Recently I was super-setting dumbbell shoulder press with arm blaster curls and felt strong bicep activation during the shoulder press. I was wandering why.
For your future videos, could you do some on super-setting - it seems my selection of supersetting opposing muscle groups was not quite right. Also, please provide options for minimalist equipment - personally I train at home with dumbbell, barbell, bench and half-rack but do not have access to cables.
I thank you doc. You provide to me more explainations about to involve the shoulder
thanks for the video
I've been doing undergrip pulldowns for about 6 weeks now and my bi's have grown more than they ever have outside of my first year of training. My wife actually commented last week and she rarely notices things like that. Maybe it's my body structure but these work really well for me.
He didn't say they won't make you grow. He was stating that the target areas said to be working by athlete x and Metzer were wrong based off the mechanics of the lift. To his point, if you want to work the upper part of the bicep by the shoulder, a chin up is not going to do this. It does not mean your biceps don't get stimulus to grow from chin ups, or pull ups , or rows ect. I actually never even heard of using a lift for upper bicep before. Not sure how much impact on growth this can actually have on upper bicep. Almost seems like more of a front Delt exercise. Interesting....
They grew more but the shape stayed the same because can't change shape of muscles physically impossible
Bro a gymnast will do chinups per sey as a bicep . But I can guarantee the coach will say otherwise. The bicep is a stabilizer in chinups. Same thing as how a boxer can build his biceps throwing punches . Hope that helps too .
@@joshpeters9190Chin ups are more than a bicep stabilizing exercise. Your biceps get cooked doing a chin up.
Good stuff!
I kind of discovered this too. Regular pull ups and chin ups hurt my shoulder, but by using twisting grips attached to the bar, it hurts less And allows supination. I also do bicep pull downs now using 2 cables with a grip on each end so I can pull and supinate. This along with preacher curls seems to get my biceps more universally sore, rather than just sore at the insertion point above the elbow.
Love it! 👊
@@DrGainsFull time dr bullshtter😂
Your just week kid nobody else gets hurt except you😂
Very interesting video Doc! So far you are just one of two YT channels that have discussed regional training on muscles. I always had the feeling this was true. I hope that you make more indepth videos regarding this subject. Can you also make a video on the two different fast twitch and slow twitch fibres that may be activated during different training methods?
Absolutely! I actually briefly discussed fiber type differences and how they affect regional hypertrophy in my last video on regional quad training (here's the link: czcams.com/video/9QPw_jzc7is/video.html )... and I have a lot more about it on my membership site, but I'll definitely be publishing more on it here as well! 👊 Regional activation has an enormous influence on training, but you're right - very few people are even aware of it. Most even believe it's not possible.
I am a huge AtheanX/Jeff Cavalier adherent, but i noticed the exact same thing when i watched the video. The very knowledge i have gotten from Jeff is how i knew what he was saying didn't sound right.
To those who add chinups and see big gains--anything new you do will give big gains, and no one, including Dr. Gains is saying that there is anything wrong with chinups in and of themselves. He is not saying not to do them, just that pulling the wrong way at the top so you are not getting the extra resistance as claimed.
P.S. i am also becoming quite a Dr. Gains fan!! Physiology doesn't lie.
Outstanding!
🙏
I see what you are saying but man some of the best bicep pumps I’ve gotten are from doing chin ups
😂 Go help your wife lift heavy shopping bags. Great pump in your forearms, but they don't really grow. A pump does not equal growth, kind friend…😉
@@nomnomyourmom😂
@@_Sam62Amateur dont comment. You still have a long journey to know 🤡
You weren’t listening either smh. You people smh.
Thank you Doctor Gains.I’m sure your instruction and information will prove very useful.Great job continue your useful work and cause your useful information to reach us.
Bot?😂
great stuff
Mahalo!
This is why I followed you for a long time now. You show us exactly what works best through science. No waste of time and then create the best product like BFR cuffs to further enhance these science-backed exercises. Love it
I hope we get more videos soon. Also it would be great if you could incorporate the latest studies like stretch mediated hyperthropy and such. And what you think of it.
Wow thanks doc. I actually implemented that AthleanX video into my training and was wondering why it didn't feel like it was hitting my biceps all that much. Thought I was doing something wrong and ended up dropping the underhanded pulldown from my program. Glad to know it wasn't my fault. Waiting on some ironmaster dumbbells so I can start doing your training with the offset weights
💪
Reverse pulldown has been a top two mass builder for my defined 16.25" arms. I will still use it but now know it does not work full range of both heads as I believed. Thanks - I know to modify my workout now and maybe that will get me past the plateau I've been stuck at for 6 weeks. I will try the bicep move you developed.
Glad to help!
I'd stop listening to this guy
Thank You
The close-grip palms-up pulldown does put pressure on both ends of the biceps at the deepest point of the motion. This is why Mike Mentzer emphasized static holds as such a crucial part of training. This, and the chin up, are the most effective ways to do this. Also your bicep curl with shoulder flexion that you demonstrated doesn't work the bicep from both ends, it works the biceps and the front delt. Mentzer's pulldown works the biceps, forearms, and almost the entire back.
Nice correction. I'd like to request to plz continue the regional hypertrophy series. Those were absolutely fantastic & not really explained by others properly.
I'm a huge fan of Jeff, but I have to roll with you on this Doc. You know your stuff. Great explanation.
Huh....exact opposite for me. Not a Jeff fan , but he is right about this. Especially for beginners
Mahalo! 🙏 Like I said in the video... this isn't meant as an attack on Athlean-X or anything. From what I've seen his content seems to normally be spot on. This is just one mistake I heard and had to address.
@@DrGains Understood and you did the right thing with your knowledge. I think Jeff is humble enough to look at it and learn.
@@benzbro350Who tf is dr gain😂? He told lie here, picked what he want . All legend know chin up is great and effective way to build biceps.
@@DrGainsWe hoped it was an attack on anyone because you are being laughed at here 😂
On point
🙏
Hey Dr, I did your leg raises off a bench but modified it to be off higher foam plyoboxes for more ROM. My lower never felt so stretched and pulled and sore before in my life. The GOAT lower ab exercise.
Ty doc.
Love it!
Legs raises is an isometric exercises builds no abs your thighs are not even attached to your ab muscles waste of time u can't separate lower ab from upper abs it's one muscle all u need is some type of crunch nothing else open a book on anatomy and u will see
Doctor doctor! I present to the ER a suffering from a severe lack of gains! You have to help me doc. 😊
This video is brilliant
Interesting indeed. There is a lot of truth here, but the supination grip also affects the activation of the biceps brachii muscle. It is very important to consider what kind of grip to take when making a movement.
What I didn't see here is a guide to the best exercise for working the bicep at the shoulder flexion, just (what I assume) is a quick video shot of pushing dumb bells overhead in a supinated grip.
I get reasonable supination resistance by palm-down gripping the top of a kettle-bell. I do an incomplete curl, keeping the weight mostly in the middle-zone of a curl -- neither the top nor the bottom -- but also supinating the hand while doing so. Full range-of-motion on the supination while doing partial reps of the elbow flexion. Even using the maximal ends of a dumbbell grip don't provide adequate supination resistance.
I also like to get the shoulder flexion component of a biceps curl by using either a cable or a band.... and setting anchor to roughly waist-height. Go ahead and start your shoulder, elbow, wrist in line with the anchor point.... at this point only your grip is getting resistance, but not your biceps nor shoulder. Now curl. At the end of the curl, you can keep your biceps contracted... but now raise your elbow -- that's your shoulder flexion, and additional biceps contraction.
I've heard that a reverse grip push up/bench press works the upper chest more, what do you think about this?
Excellent! U do great videos. Could u please aso do kettelbell traininf videos. Also what is your opinion on dry intermittent fasting like in Ramadan for health?
There appear to be over 2,500 companies that produce an ashwaganda product with some having incredibly poor quality and percentage quantity. Can you recommend a good ashwaganda product?
Excellent tutorial thanks..👍🏼
🙏
Shots fire and rightfully so. This may bring in some more well earned subscriptions.
Mahalo! 🙏 Although like I say in the video, this isn't meant as an attack on Athlean-X. From what I've seen his content is high quality and normally spot on. He just happened to be wrong in this case. Everybody makes mistakes!
i think mike was talking about a reverse grip cable curl its essentially the same thing except you extend only the elbow joint ive grow my arms 3 inches by implementing reverse cable curls in my program
If you don’t understand physics; this is not your place!
So glad finding such scientific valuable information freely on CZcams!
Where is the world going!!
Hi I tore my brachialis at the ulnar bone and had surgery to have it reattached. How do I strengthen the tendon or any tendon in my body to prevent injury.
Go see a physio
IT'S TRUE. I didn't train the biceps in isolation, I relied on different forms of pull-ups to do the trick. A mistake. All I had to do was put in TWO one-arm biceps sets per week (isometric preload followed immediately by isotonics... that's one set in total) and in a few weeks my biceps "bloomed"...
They send me to a physical therapist and not a doctor for muscle injuries.
Seems like most of the comment section didn't watch the whole video.
Hi ... would you please comment on Dr. Millo's Bayesian cable curl?
Zene
I learned a valuable lesson in basic training at Sand Hill, shit tons of chins and front leaning rest brings the gains.
Tell that theory to a gymnast
Bro I'm so excited to use those supplements😮
I bet you are busy but keep them coming bro, your content is top tier!
Thank you my friend!
I wish influencers would go into more detail about compound exercises and inform people that your body is designed to work multiple muscle groups together. Isolation moves are not practical for the average lifter.
You're the best, I hope you'll do a calisthenics serie one day, with the same level of precision you bring in all your videos.
It's on my to-do list!
Could you revisit your "Protein" video from 10 months ago? You recommend taking a pre/during workout free form amino acid product for muscle protein synthesis that doesn't appear to contain all the essential amino acids. Even though you state it has all the essential amino acids, it's missing tryptophan - I'm confused.
this is stupid question just take your daiky protein wgarever the time you want , all at once or 6 meals it have been already debunked it doesnt matter
@@R3DDASCHANNEL Dr. Gains posted a video, "You're Doing Protein Wrong!" ten months ago. He states the exact opposite of what you are stating and cites research to prove his point. He says that the "type" and "timing" of protein is more important than the amount when considering muscle synthesis. I'm not sure who's correct, you or him. But, if I'm going to believe him, I'd like to know why he recommends a product for muscle synthesis, claiming it has all the essential amino acids, when it clearly doesn't. "this is a stupid question"...quit chucking spears...
You are right. I try these new exercise every now and then and found that pulldowns are a waste of time. They neither hit biceps nor the lats. Bottom line is: Biceps will grow only when they are fully engaged during a contraction and eccentric release. So whether it is a closed grip bar pulldowns or supinated palms chin ups, if biceps are not engaged, the whole moment is a waste.
Uhm, so which what muscles you are pulling the bar down than😅
@@watchdog6619 I can very well engage my biceps during an arm workout. The actual movement that would target the biceps in a pulldown is completely different than what has been preached by Mentzer. If you are a Mentzer fan, I mean no disrespect to his theory. It's just that I tried his idea and it did not work with my muscle framework. Every person responds differently to a single exercise. And I believe pulldowns did not give me the hypertrophy or the improvement in muscular tone that I was looking for.
Never really did those because of the shoulder flexion thing... still a decent bi move
Please can you do a video for vastus Lateralis and intermediate?
Those will be coming in the near future as Part 2 and 3 of my Regional Hypertrophy Quad Series! 👍(Part 1 is the video I published right before this one.) So stay tuned
You can litteraly chose if you are pulling with biceps or with back... either you bend your elbows as main move or you pull your elbows down as main move.
Out of curiosity, how do gymnast get big biceps without ever doing a curl?
*"You're killing my gains!"*
A video on upper back would be nice
Noted!
Works for some, for some, it doesn't. Works for me personally - I use that as a pre-exhaust before jumping on to the Cable Preacher dropsets followed by Hammer Concentration.
Well, it can definitely activate the biceps at the elbow... but the main point here is that it doesn't activate the biceps at the shoulder at all. Regardless of who you are or how you do it. The biceps perform the complete opposite movement at the shoulder.
Dear Dr.
Please do a video on the side delt
I can feel it in my biceps, but.. when that said, it's an exercise i will not use.. drag curls in the smith machine, or in the cables is much better, but thats my opinion..
I think so We look at the initial and final positions of the pull down/chin up and the exercise proposed by Dr. Gains (curl plus anterior shoulder flexion) there is no difference in angles and overload of both heads of the biceps. Maybe the pull down is a little more concentric and the previous curl + flexion is a little more eccentric.
There's actually an enormous difference. The pull-down and chin-up don't load the biceps at the shoulder at all. There is ZERO shoulder flexion load / activation. The resistance is in the complete opposite direction. I know that can be confusing because the positions look the same, but try re-watching the video and maybe it'll make more sense for you the second time.
I came here to learn about close grip chin up can you do a video only about that
Can you recommend us some books for those of us who love books and want to educate ourselves?
That make sense on first glance, but why does then MVIC meaurements show relatively high biceps activation while doing push-ups?
I love your content, and your solid scientific representation of the topic, i am a clinical pharmacist and i love your anatomy and biomechanics videos, keep it up!
Mahalo, that's great to hear! 🙏
10:57 Error, error, system malfunction. Text says _short_ head!
Darn. Haha nice catch. With the hundreds of edits that go into these, there's always at least one typo or similar error I make!
My biceps are always sore after doing bicep pull downs. They get hit. When I was in basic training my arms grew large from pull ups.
ur back
does reverse grip bench press work the shoulder side of the bicep?
does close girp push ups hits upper chest?and can u do a video for upper chest :\
If you hold your arms further in front of you, preferably in a declined position(feet up) a regular push up should do the trick. I could be wrong though. Most do seated, inclined pressed - you just gotta find the right angle on the incline. Even a plate press or pressing your hands together, while held relatively high, maybe upper-chest to neck height or even higher, and that too should do the trick.
Decline Pushups less than 45° and wherever you feel it the best.
My biceps disagree, especially when doing partial range of motion during the pullup. If not go to prison youll learn how fast you can activate the bicep with a pullup
I have 19 3/4 inch arms and that’s literally from chins, rows, dips and skull crushers
I trained with Mentzer for a few months in the early 90's, got into the worst shape ever. Such infrequent, hyper intense workouts only made me chubby.
The perfect 'bicep' exercise would be using gymnastic rings and the orientation of the torso. It would have the arms straight and behind the torso. Then your body would have to go head down and rotate to move your arms towards the front of the torso with tension on the biceps. Body rotation to the point your biceps are next to your face, then a curl motion starts with it ending behind your head/touching traps. Possible? Only a gymnast could maybe move the body along that path but highly un-practicable.
I love Jeff but Dr. gains is definitely anatomically right on this one.
Have to disagree with this one, it is just me and my OWN experience. I'm 45 years old, and my arms were stagnated. But Switching to heavy pulldown, sometimes with a spotter and weighted pull-ups was a success 💪🏾. Hey, maybe my body is different from many others. However, i definitely subscribing to this channel. Very good info.
Thanks for calling them out. Having seen a few content creator flame-wars by now I hope we can raise the standard.
There is recent rise of people with medical expertise slowly entering into fitness infuncer which will elevate so many of these small mistakes.
Dr milo wolf, good old ressinance peridiozation, YOU and others.
Dr Andy Galpins through hubberman, principles have become popular.
Next batch of fitness people will be a elite class for sure.
👊
Even though the bicep gets a pump and a burn it still isn't getting worked?
then why do i get a pump?
Completely agree with you. It´s something very obvious when you know a little about how the shoulder joint works.
Exactly 👊
Except they do work the biceps from both ends, just not all in the concentric.
Control the eccentric on the way up, as you should do anyway, and that’s the exact movement you’re doing with your curl raises.
So they are both still right.
I would agree with you, except for a few major points:
1) 1950s bodybuilders
2) 1960s bodybuilders
3) 1970s bodybuilders
4) 1980s bodybuilders
5) 1990s bodybuilders
All of them built their width, peak, and bulge with pull-ups, pulldowns, rows and curls.
Have there been actual studies comparing pullups vs curls and their results? Mentzer talked about the biceps development of gymnasts who at least at that time, according to him, weren't intentionally bodybuilding, nor doing curls, just doing pullups, yet had biceps as developed as amateur bodybuilders. ISTM, it may be that even though curls Should develop the biceps better, it's a lot harder to curl one's own weight, than it is to do a pullup with one's weight, so it may be easier to put the biceps under a high load and see gains with them, even though they don't target the biceps as well, and if the pullups were done on a pull down machine with the same lower (than body) weight as the curls, would result in less gains than the curls.
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How do gymnasts get big biceps with just pull ups?
Genetics
If you know a little bit about biomechanics then you should wonder whether gymnasts (and by no means all) have biceps like that because of or despite the chin-up 😉
Rings are a different animal. There’s almost always some form of internal or external rotation of the wrists when doing a pulling exercise. That’s why they’re easier on the joints.
P.e.d.
There are many reasons why they have huge biceps... but perhaps the biggest is the loaded straight-arm bicep work they do, like the Maltese on the rings, which load the biceps from both ends. That absolutely blows your biceps up. I'm gonna do a video on straight-arm biceps work in the near future. But one principle is the same. Load the biceps on both ends.
Wow. I had heard that the underhand pull-down was one of the best biceps exercises from multiple people… always saying that it worked the biceps from both ends. The way you explain it makes it seem so obvious!! I wonder how that got started…
It is pretty obvious once you understand the anatomy! I think it was that Mike Mentzer guy who started it... but I'm not positive. I had just heard it from so many people that I had to address it.
@@DrGainshow dan we build tricpes and shoulders with barbells not cables
@@DrGains
“That Mike Mentzer guy “? Really .
Wash your mouth out .
Man, Mike Mentzer is everywhere these days. Great videos BTW, feel like I have to rewatch them multiple times to absorb all the content.
Mike mentzer isn't anywhere these days, he's been dead for decades. His nonsense is everywhere because people can argue against him without him being able to respond and his name is well known enough to draw rage bait views. It's just people playing the CZcams algorithm game for views.
If you keep watching videos with his name in them, the algorithm will feed you more of them and that's the kind of trending creators bank on and why your feed will always seem to promote so much of the same or similar content.
It takes a lot of intentional searching browsing different content to get your CZcams feed to trend on something else if you want to change it.
pronated grip pull downs/ups absolutely blast your biceps...i do them all the time with arm workouts...because the are a great compound movement to start off the arm work
Straight Barbell curl with a 3 second eccentric 1 second concentric is my favorite bicep exersize.(also something menzter was a huge fan of). Nothing overloads the biceps better than this paticular exersize(in terms of being able to go heavy). Then a cable rope hammer curl for the brachis. Boom. That's all you need. I don't beleive in doing "different" exersizes that require lowering the weight to be able to do the paticular motion. I'm a straight shooter. I want straight foward muscular overload per muscle group. That's why I'm not a fan of the arnold press. I can shoulder press more than I can curl. I get you can still achieve hypertrophy with many reps, but again for me....anything over 12 reps and the weight is going up!! Just stick with the absolute basics and you'll be good to go. None of this funky fitness influencer stuff you see now a days
I believe everybody's body reacts differently according to the exercise I don't think either one of these guys are wrong because I do exercises that benefits my brother and he'll get more results than I and our form are exact
I trained Mentzer-style for years. I wasn't aware of what goes on in this world. Mentzer was a shill just playing the other end of the spectrum to Weider. It gets much weirder than that but I'll leave it there. I never did get much biceps activation from the Underhand Pulldown. Barbell Curls are perfectly adequate, imo. I no longer train Mentzer-style as it violates the CNS, imo. I've had success with microloading (no periodisation) and low reps. Triples on most exercises. Singles on Front Squat. And, stretching is essential or you'll be in pain your whole life. Mentzer was anti-stretching.
This isnt true. I did a 10yr prison bit ,and all i did were dips and underhanded pull-ups, which i did every M/W/F 10x10 superset fashion. My arms grew to 20" from 15" and I never did any curling exercises ever.
Where is your perfect workout series?!
I stand under the bar, take a underhand close grip, then literally curl myself up repeatedly. Takes a little practice to exclude lats.
Biceps have blown up.
So....yeah, thanks anyway.
I’ve never seen anyone break it down like this, thank you!