why do I keep hearing talk about epic fantasy dying in so many places online? What did I miss? Why do so many people seem to believe this is happening?
Seems to be more a reaction to the rise of Romantasy/Cozy-Fantasy being pushed through retellers, booktok, and publishers. These two subgenres have had massive boosts in sales in the past year mainly due to Mass, Yarros, and Baldree's success and have sparked a surge of other books like them. These subgenres are particularly popular among younger readers (teenagers and YA), which the entertainment industries generally follow more than adult markets. Even just looking anecdotally at my own algorithm, I have noticed that when I get "fantasy" videos on instagram/tiktok its not epic fantasy content, it's romantasy content and I've never read one romantasy book... I imagine is likely occurring on a grand scale. So because of this, people feel that epic fantasy is "dying" comparatively - and I guess publishers are also asking for shorter books that are easier to sell to these people who want to binge read 100 books a year or whatever. I personally don't think Epic fantasy is dying, but rather that Romantasy has had a surge in popularity. That said, I can understand the concern surrounding its seemed drop within the overall fantasy genre. Once the fad fades, then epic fantasy will be back to its usual place at the top.
From what I keep seeing, most of the conversation around epic fantasy dying has to do with how popular YA fantasy romance is becoming (like Fourth Wing) and how it focuses more on the romance and sex more than any sort of journey or world building. Personally I think it’s kind of dramatic to say epic fantasy is dying rather than acknowledging these books aren’t for them and finding something else instead. To use an analogy, it kinda sounds like they’re complaining about how there’s no more apples while looking through a bunch of oranges. Meaning stick to adult fantasy, leave the YA stuff alone and maybe they’ll find that epic fantasy isn’t actually dying lol
I don't believe Epic Fantasy is dying quite the opposite really with the wake of all the booktubers and even adaptations are getting ppl interested in Epic Fantasy
The “Wheel of Time “ series also spawned a new term. To be “Jordanized” is to use two thousand words to describe something that most authors would do in 20 words. I never finished WoT because of that. Martin fell into that on occasion in ASOI&F, but not nearly as often.
As far as keeping epic fantasy "alive", Ryan Cahill is out here doing the Lord's work! The Bound and the Broken is a classic dragon rider story mixed with all sorts of other semi- tropy goodness. There are three books and three novelas so far. The Age of Uprising is good, but I think the author gets a bit heavy handed with the allegory. Everything about the Dragonate Ministry screams "a bitter lapsed catholic wrote this" lol. I have read the original 10 Malazan books, and I have yet to come across another series that is even close to it. I have never been more confused by a series, while thoroughly enjoying it.
@TolgaBudak-jc4jy if story is good, then I’m all for it. For example I reread Songs of Chaos by Michael R Miller and it’s one of the best Dragon rider stories I’ve experienced in a while. Namely because everything is intentional and Miller put a lot of thought into his choices like character, world and plot.
Have you heard of The Wandering Inn? It straddles the line between fantasy and litrpg. It starts off slow and builds on characters and the world to an epic story. It is currently unfinished and the longest series ever. 14 million words in, and I am still hooked.
I recently discovered Mercedes Lackey and I'm surprised how little people know about their series. I'm going to read it soon ^^ Thank you for all the recommendations!
Lackey's work is quality, and she's been very prolific over the decades. So has C. J. Cherryh and Lois McMaster Bujold who for reasons unknown don't get a lot of attention on any of these book tube channels I've seen. Bujold is an amazing writer, has won both the Hugo and Nebula, writes both sci fi and fantasy, and yet I never hear her works talked about.
My intro into epic fantasy was Dragonlance by Weis and Hickman and I love this entire world and growing with the characters and I found Michael J Sullivan and his Riryia chronicles and first empire books are just so damn amazing and recommend.
Storm light is really good, but the books are definitely a commitment, I read the 1st 3 books one after the other, now I’m taking a break before tackling book 4 before then new one comes out in December
I really enjoy Lackey's Valdemar, particularly the arcs starting with the Collegium Chronicles and with Arrows of the Queen. I'll mention the Tarma and Kethry books as well, which were mostly published as shorter pieces and then later assembled into novels. Raymond Feist's Midkemia books are definitely epic and have apocalyptic stakes. They have a more classic feel, but they're well-written and the series is many volumes. David Weber's War God series never gets mentioned, but it's very good, with quite strong characters, a deep world, and a compelling plot. Roger Zelazny's Amber series, especially the Corwin arc, is excellent and not much like any other series I've read. It has several of the more memorable characters in epic fantasy and the plot is fascinating. It's also quite short by the standards of modern epic fantasy. And I think Steven Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series is worth at least a mention, even though it still infuriates me more than 40 years after I read it. The main character is unforgettably written, even though (or perhaps "because") I still want to punch him in the face. The world is remarkably well drawn and all the other characters are very sympathetic.
I wish people talked about the Winnowing Flame trilogy more. I first picked it up because you talked about it (I think a couple more booktube people did, too, but it was definitely YOUR rec that stuck out to me) and... there's not much quite like it. I sound crazy when I try to tell people what the series is about but it's just SO GOOD. I wish more people would read it.
One epic fantasy that I don't see people talk about often is the sword of truth series by Terry Goodkind. My fiance got me the first one as he grew up on it and thought I would like it and it was really good. It even had the villian pov. Now i've only read the first book so far, and there are like 15 books, but the first one was really good.
It's so hard to find a list of epic fantasy recommendations that haven't already been talked to death. So kudos to you for managing to introduce me to some titles I wasn't aware of.
I would highly recommend the Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett. An epic fantasy series with five books. (cycle 1 completed). This year, we will be 2 books into cycle 2. Loved it. The world building is exquisite and the character work is also very well done.
I don't think George R.R. Martin is ever going to finish ASOIAF.. I think he got scared after the backslash from the last season. And after that season 8 dumpster fire I honestly cannot exactly blame him 🥴
When I read Gardens of the Moon I immediately thought of Dark Souls too! I just felt like the tone and the way information is revealed to the reader was very similar
I wish more people knew about The Books of Raksura Series by Martha Wells. It's very unique in It's worldbuilding and well written. First fantasy I had read that didn't have any humans in it. They just never existed in that world and I felt in love with the concept.
Good classic fantasy with all the tropes. I think for a lot of us budding readers who grew up on 80s fantasy, Eddings was the guy you turned to after having read LOTR. It was either him or Terry Brooks's Sword of Shannara series. Neither had near the imagination, breadth or scope of LOTR, but that said, Eddings adequetly provided a well-written coming of age/heroes journey story with very likable characters.
@@allthekingsbooks Sometimes that's all I'm looking for at the end of a hard day. It's possible for one to benifit from both simple YA material and from more challenging works. For me it's more about my mental and emotional state at the moment and what makes me feel happy and content; the main reason why I read. As far as the conviction goes, well yes, it's unfortunate and problematic for many fans of his works. When I first read his books as a teenager back in the 80s I didn't know anything about his crimes. Now that I do, I don't purchase anything new to support his estate, but at the same time I won't cull my current standing collection of his either.
@databloom70 I agree, don't get me wrong, I also read what some/most would describe "simple" popcorn Fantasy and often enjoy it. But OP asked for opinions about Belgariad and the most fitting description I can find is unimaginitive. I would venture that your positive feelings towards the series are from a sense of nostalgia, which, again, I fully understand as I feel the same with Terry Brooks btw. That sense of nostalgia makes me reread the first few books every few years even though they're not that good.
Yes Malazan was so Great to me that it kinda broke Fantasy for me. Now I really have to look long and hard to get a new Fantasy series that grabs my attention.
Has anyone hear read “Saga of the Forgotten Warrior” by Larry Correia? It’s a subcontinent Indian inspired epic fantasy where the main character is fantasy Judge Dread. I loved it.
Really wanna get on the Robin Hobb hype train, but I didn't like Assassin's Apprentice (found it to be slow and boring), what should I try next or just give up?
Do you have any idea when the third book in the Age Of Uprising series is coming out? Every now and then I'll have a gander on the interwebs for news but to no avail so far, maybe you're more clued in?
It throws me off that you pronounce Malazan properly 😂 Like, I know that’s how it is supposed to be said but it always trips me up. Anyway, great video!
I think El mentioned it because people keep bringing it up all over book tube because of ya or fantasy romance being popular. So she's informing people of series that maybe not everyone is aware of which I found helpful. It's just a topic I noticed other book tubers discussing with varying opinions. Mikes book reviews and Library of a Viking brought it up along with quite a few other channels but those are the only two I can think of at the top of my head at the moment.
In interviews with Erikson, he really downplays the importance of proper pronunciation; especially with character names. He'll simply state, "It doesn't really matter." I sometimes think he chose ambiguous names in that regard to just further add complexity, and dare I say, confusion for the reader.
What is with these series that go on and on for 10 or 20 books? I have zero interest. Give me quality over quantity. I want a story with a beginning, middle, and an end that I can read within my (busy) lifetime. I will never read (e.g.) WOT or Malazan for this reason.
You are so special and incredible person Elliot and book angel and i appreciate all ur hard work and make best content ever 🌺🌺🌞🌞🌺🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌞🌺🌺🌺🌞🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🩵🩵🌊🌊🩵🩵🌊📚📙📙📚📚📙📙📚📚📚📖📖📖📖📖📖📖📚📙📙📚📚📚📙📚📚📚📚
I find that such a shallow comparison tbh since there is soo much more to malazan than whatever surface level things it shares with souls series. Second apocalypse along war of light and shadow are the other malazan like fantasy series out there though in different ways.
why do I keep hearing talk about epic fantasy dying in so many places online? What did I miss? Why do so many people seem to believe this is happening?
I’m also curious to know why this is. 🤔
Same! I feel like it’s everywhere and I love it!
This is the first time I’ve heard this. I’m curious as well.
Seems to be more a reaction to the rise of Romantasy/Cozy-Fantasy being pushed through retellers, booktok, and publishers. These two subgenres have had massive boosts in sales in the past year mainly due to Mass, Yarros, and Baldree's success and have sparked a surge of other books like them. These subgenres are particularly popular among younger readers (teenagers and YA), which the entertainment industries generally follow more than adult markets. Even just looking anecdotally at my own algorithm, I have noticed that when I get "fantasy" videos on instagram/tiktok its not epic fantasy content, it's romantasy content and I've never read one romantasy book... I imagine is likely occurring on a grand scale.
So because of this, people feel that epic fantasy is "dying" comparatively - and I guess publishers are also asking for shorter books that are easier to sell to these people who want to binge read 100 books a year or whatever.
I personally don't think Epic fantasy is dying, but rather that Romantasy has had a surge in popularity. That said, I can understand the concern surrounding its seemed drop within the overall fantasy genre. Once the fad fades, then epic fantasy will be back to its usual place at the top.
From what I keep seeing, most of the conversation around epic fantasy dying has to do with how popular YA fantasy romance is becoming (like Fourth Wing) and how it focuses more on the romance and sex more than any sort of journey or world building. Personally I think it’s kind of dramatic to say epic fantasy is dying rather than acknowledging these books aren’t for them and finding something else instead. To use an analogy, it kinda sounds like they’re complaining about how there’s no more apples while looking through a bunch of oranges. Meaning stick to adult fantasy, leave the YA stuff alone and maybe they’ll find that epic fantasy isn’t actually dying lol
I don't believe Epic Fantasy is dying quite the opposite really with the wake of all the booktubers and even adaptations are getting ppl interested in Epic Fantasy
What’s crazy about mistborn is that Sanderson has confirmed that we’re getting an era 5 as well 😂
The “Wheel of Time “ series also spawned a new term. To be “Jordanized” is to use two thousand words to describe something that most authors would do in 20 words. I never finished WoT because of that. Martin fell into that on occasion in ASOI&F, but not nearly as often.
Elliot!! I read Sabriel on your recommendation from a video a while back and it was SO good!!! it brought me out of a 3 month reading slump!
0:00 Elliot always closing her eyes every intro XD
She keeps doing it every few seconds too. The entire video for a fraction of a second, she closes her eyes. What is she hiding?!?
As far as keeping epic fantasy "alive", Ryan Cahill is out here doing the Lord's work! The Bound and the Broken is a classic dragon rider story mixed with all sorts of other semi- tropy goodness. There are three books and three novelas so far.
The Age of Uprising is good, but I think the author gets a bit heavy handed with the allegory. Everything about the Dragonate Ministry screams "a bitter lapsed catholic wrote this" lol.
I have read the original 10 Malazan books, and I have yet to come across another series that is even close to it. I have never been more confused by a series, while thoroughly enjoying it.
@TolgaBudak-jc4jy if story is good, then I’m all for it. For example I reread Songs of Chaos by Michael R Miller and it’s one of the best Dragon rider stories I’ve experienced in a while. Namely because everything is intentional and Miller put a lot of thought into his choices like character, world and plot.
Have you heard of The Wandering Inn? It straddles the line between fantasy and litrpg. It starts off slow and builds on characters and the world to an epic story. It is currently unfinished and the longest series ever. 14 million words in, and I am still hooked.
I will never not click on your videos the VERY SECOND I'm scrolling and see your face. ❤ Your style!!
I recently discovered Mercedes Lackey and I'm surprised how little people know about their series. I'm going to read it soon ^^ Thank you for all the recommendations!
Lackey's work is quality, and she's been very prolific over the decades. So has C. J. Cherryh and Lois McMaster Bujold who for reasons unknown don't get a lot of attention on any of these book tube channels I've seen. Bujold is an amazing writer, has won both the Hugo and Nebula, writes both sci fi and fantasy, and yet I never hear her works talked about.
Recency bias. Best lists of fantasy novels is LotR, published in the 1950's and a bunch of books after 2000. As if those 50 years didn't exist.
The bound and the Broken, Ryan Cahill!
Waiting impatiently on the new book. It’s an amazing series.
My intro into epic fantasy was Dragonlance by Weis and Hickman and I love this entire world and growing with the characters and I found Michael J Sullivan and his Riryia chronicles and first empire books are just so damn amazing and recommend.
Storm light is really good, but the books are definitely a commitment, I read the 1st 3 books one after the other, now I’m taking a break before tackling book 4 before then new one comes out in December
R. Scott Bakker's series The Prince of Nothing and The Aspect Emperor does satisfy Malazan fans.
Ah, you beat me to it ;)
I really enjoy Lackey's Valdemar, particularly the arcs starting with the Collegium Chronicles and with Arrows of the Queen. I'll mention the Tarma and Kethry books as well, which were mostly published as shorter pieces and then later assembled into novels.
Raymond Feist's Midkemia books are definitely epic and have apocalyptic stakes. They have a more classic feel, but they're well-written and the series is many volumes.
David Weber's War God series never gets mentioned, but it's very good, with quite strong characters, a deep world, and a compelling plot.
Roger Zelazny's Amber series, especially the Corwin arc, is excellent and not much like any other series I've read. It has several of the more memorable characters in epic fantasy and the plot is fascinating. It's also quite short by the standards of modern epic fantasy.
And I think Steven Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series is worth at least a mention, even though it still infuriates me more than 40 years after I read it. The main character is unforgettably written, even though (or perhaps "because") I still want to punch him in the face. The world is remarkably well drawn and all the other characters are very sympathetic.
I wish people talked about the Winnowing Flame trilogy more. I first picked it up because you talked about it (I think a couple more booktube people did, too, but it was definitely YOUR rec that stuck out to me) and... there's not much quite like it. I sound crazy when I try to tell people what the series is about but it's just SO GOOD. I wish more people would read it.
Finished that one last month. It was good.
Winnowing flame is so underrated! I particularly loved the audiobook
Me too! The audiobook was fantastic!!
One epic fantasy that I don't see people talk about often is the sword of truth series by Terry Goodkind. My fiance got me the first one as he grew up on it and thought I would like it and it was really good. It even had the villian pov. Now i've only read the first book so far, and there are like 15 books, but the first one was really good.
A lot of people feel like Terry Goodkind was kind of a crappy person and chose not to promote his books because of it.
@@Nothingineternityoh I see. I didn't know that.
@@NothingineternityThank you for pointing this out. I went and looked it up, and I will also not be promoting his books going forward.
Sword of truth was amazing until i read wheel of time and realised it was a poor rip off.
I would classify it as mid-low. Terry Brooks though I really enjoyed reading as a kid.
Reading mistborn the final empire right now. Finishing it today. Phenomenal book 👌🏼
Yay for Green Rider! I read book 1 in May and am on book 3 now, it's so fun! Also, yay for Valdemar! I have a few more books to catch up.
It's so hard to find a list of epic fantasy recommendations that haven't already been talked to death. So kudos to you for managing to introduce me to some titles I wasn't aware of.
If you are a a malazan fan I recommend the Prince of Nothing, the only books that got close (and surpassed it in some ways) in my opinion
Thank you so much for this overview! I realized how much great books I still want to catch up on 🤩
I would highly recommend the Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett. An epic fantasy series with five books. (cycle 1 completed). This year, we will be 2 books into cycle 2.
Loved it. The world building is exquisite and the character work is also very well done.
I've just finished the first law initial trilogy by Abercrombie. It felt epic 😁
I don't think George R.R. Martin is ever going to finish ASOIAF..
I think he got scared after the backslash from the last season. And after that season 8 dumpster fire I honestly cannot exactly blame him 🥴
When I read Gardens of the Moon I immediately thought of Dark Souls too! I just felt like the tone and the way information is revealed to the reader was very similar
I wish more people knew about The Books of Raksura Series by Martha Wells. It's very unique in It's worldbuilding and well written. First fantasy I had read that didn't have any humans in it. They just never existed in that world and I felt in love with the concept.
great list thanks!
okkkk I have finally bought the Winnowing Flame trilogy and am very curious about The Age of Uprising 😅
Hi. What do you think of David Eddings The Belgariad? I noticed that Book 1 Pawn of Prophecy was just released on Audible.
Good classic fantasy with all the tropes. I think for a lot of us budding readers who grew up on 80s fantasy, Eddings was the guy you turned to after having read LOTR. It was either him or Terry Brooks's Sword of Shannara series. Neither had near the imagination, breadth or scope of LOTR, but that said, Eddings adequetly provided a well-written coming of age/heroes journey story with very likable characters.
Eddings was to me what Robert Jordan was to many growing up. The Belgarid and The Malloreon are just excellent
Very simplistic and unimaginative YA Fantasy. Also, keep in mind Eddings was a convicted child abuser so I would suggest to read someone else.
@@allthekingsbooks Sometimes that's all I'm looking for at the end of a hard day. It's possible for one to benifit from both simple YA material and from more challenging works. For me it's more about my mental and emotional state at the moment and what makes me feel happy and content; the main reason why I read.
As far as the conviction goes, well yes, it's unfortunate and problematic for many fans of his works. When I first read his books as a teenager back in the 80s I didn't know anything about his crimes. Now that I do, I don't purchase anything new to support his estate, but at the same time I won't cull my current standing collection of his either.
@databloom70 I agree, don't get me wrong, I also read what some/most would describe "simple" popcorn Fantasy and often enjoy it. But OP asked for opinions about Belgariad and the most fitting description I can find is unimaginitive. I would venture that your positive feelings towards the series are from a sense of nostalgia, which, again, I fully understand as I feel the same with Terry Brooks btw. That sense of nostalgia makes me reread the first few books every few years even though they're not that good.
I love the wynnowing flame series ! I keep comparing it with everything I read now
I looove Valdamar so much !! My fave comfort series ❤
Thanks for the great list! I love the format you used, giving similar-ish recommendations. :)
Ooh I read Green Rider in high school. The SA in one particular scene was a bit much for me at the time, but you have me wanting to reread it.
The Green Rider is on my list to check out.
The sword of truth
Awesome recommendations, thanks!
This was a very well thought out video thank you
Yes Malazan was so Great to me that it kinda broke Fantasy for me. Now I really have to look long and hard to get a new Fantasy series that grabs my attention.
I couldn't read Malazan, it was a difficult read from me, too many characters. Stopped ready at after chapter 1. Even dune was easier.
Second apocalypse along with war of light and shadow are 2 recommendations I always give for malazan fans
The Warrior Prophet Trilogy is epic
ah I was hoping for a video like this!
Has anyone hear read “Saga of the Forgotten Warrior” by Larry Correia? It’s a subcontinent Indian inspired epic fantasy where the main character is fantasy Judge Dread. I loved it.
Really wanna get on the Robin Hobb hype train, but I didn't like Assassin's Apprentice (found it to be slow and boring), what should I try next or just give up?
After reading the assassin’s apprentices series I couldn’t read anymore what he did to him killed me
Do you have any idea when the third book in the Age Of Uprising series is coming out? Every now and then I'll have a gander on the interwebs for news but to no avail so far, maybe you're more clued in?
Great Video!
It throws me off that you pronounce Malazan properly 😂 Like, I know that’s how it is supposed to be said but it always trips me up. Anyway, great video!
Is epic fantasy dying? Just the way she explained it in beginning I’m curious
I think El mentioned it because people keep bringing it up all over book tube because of ya or fantasy romance being popular. So she's informing people of series that maybe not everyone is aware of which I found helpful. It's just a topic I noticed other book tubers discussing with varying opinions. Mikes book reviews and Library of a Viking brought it up along with quite a few other channels but those are the only two I can think of at the top of my head at the moment.
Omg it’s maLAzan I been pronouncing it MALazan
In interviews with Erikson, he really downplays the importance of proper pronunciation; especially with character names. He'll simply state, "It doesn't really matter." I sometimes think he chose ambiguous names in that regard to just further add complexity, and dare I say, confusion for the reader.
@@databloom70 maybe he doesn’t care? Or maybe people pronounce it differently even in the world they way they do in ours
Everytime I hear Malazan I think about the word molasses
Why do you compare everything to dark souls?
I still have to start stormlight 😩
Hello Mrs. Brooks. How can I get you to review my books?
LOVE the Echoes Saga!!
Would've preferred if you gave a synopsis of each of the series
What is with these series that go on and on for 10 or 20 books? I have zero interest. Give me quality over quantity. I want a story with a beginning, middle, and an end that I can read within my (busy) lifetime. I will never read (e.g.) WOT or Malazan for this reason.
OYYYY, TRUST ME PLEASE. WOT is so worth it, its quality and quantity combined.
Can you do more for female MC epic?
I don't follow this drama stuff. What is this about worries that epic fantasy won't be with us?
Ok why do you pronounce Malazan the way you do?
You are so special and incredible person Elliot and book angel and i appreciate all ur hard work and make best content ever 🌺🌺🌞🌞🌺🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌞🌺🌺🌺🌞🌞🌞🌺🌺🌞🌞🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🩵🩵🌊🌊🩵🩵🌊📚📙📙📚📚📙📙📚📚📚📖📖📖📖📖📖📖📚📙📙📚📚📚📙📚📚📚📚
Ugh, I love Malazan. I was going to say Soulsborne video games too. 🤣🥰
I find that such a shallow comparison tbh since there is soo much more to malazan than whatever surface level things it shares with souls series. Second apocalypse along war of light and shadow are the other malazan like fantasy series out there though in different ways.