Alutrix 600 is there a cheaper vapour control layer?
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2020
- Suppliers we use:
www.insulationhub.co.uk
www.rubber4roofs.co.uk promo code LFR2013 and you will get my discount.
www.rubber4roofs.co.uk is the only place you can purchase Alutrix 600 in small rolls.
www.insulationhub.co.uk will supply large quantities of Alutrix 600 at a good price.
Please mention London Flat Roofing when ordering so they know we referred you.
Is there a cheaper vapour barrier than Alutrix 600 for warm roofs? This was asked by a CZcams viewer about cheap warm flat roof vapour barriers as at London Flat Roofing we only use an expensive self-adhesive warm roof vapour barrier called Alutrix 600. Although there are other vapour barriers on the market that are self-adhesive there are also sheet plastic vapour barriers that can work on warm flat roofs. However, the cost of these may seem to be cheaper to begin with but once you buy all the different types that you need to make the system airtight and vapour tight you end up paying a lot more for the product. Not only this you will have to mechanically fix down any insolation that goes over the top when using a loose laid vapour control membrane this is because of what's known as wind uplift. Going back to the Alutrix 600 It's not only self-seals to its self that you don't need any more components such as tapes to seal joints but it also waterproofs the decking until you are ready to place your flat roof insulation over the top. This is an extremely important procedure that needs to be thought about as part of the process of forming the warm roof as To have an extra opportunity of stopping the work because of whether Windows is something that is extremely important in the British calendar. So as you can see using Alutrix 600 Brings lots of benefits apart from its use as a vapour control system for a new warm roof it also helps to make the roof airtight as a tightness in a new warm flat roof is extremely important. Any movement of air into the sandwich of the insulated flat roof can also introduce moist air that can condense in the sandwich causing mould and sometimes rotting the roof from the inside outwards.
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Steven Dickinson
London flat roofing
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info@londonflatroofing.co.uk
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I also eventually used the same vapour barrier on my house roof it’s proved to be a great insulation thanks to your videos, cheers
I really appreciate Steve taking the time to post these videos. He is obviously passionate about doing a good job. I only wish I knew the info from these videos before I had work done on my roof. These are the sort of subtle decisions that seem almost inconsequential during any build project but make the difference between a 2 year roof and a 30-year one!
Thanks and yes its the little background bits that make all the difference
Attention to details in this video is amazing. Very informative. Excellent.
Glad you liked it!
The information ay around 7.45 about the 4x2 to finish is just what I was after glad you included that. Brilliant videos.
It was a good video but you need 5x2 around the perimeter not 4 x 2
Hi steve I've just ordered the Alutrix 600 for my flat roof with your promo code thank you. keep up the videos mate
Its good stuff
@@SteveRoofer I fitted it today
@@MrJons1970 How did it go send me some photos steve@londonflatroofing.co.uk bet it went down well with the warmth today
@@SteveRoofer apparently the hottest day so far. Sent you some pictures mate
There should be a building certification required for the vapour barrier installation signed off by an expert and signed off again at various stages during construction of the roof? That way guarantees could be offered against water ingress etc and insurance company premiums would come down.
Hi Steve, very informative video as usual.
Could you do one on the technicalities of the upstand of the timber decking around the inside of a parapet. Would you usually fix an OSB upstand as part of the to layer of decking to the parapet masonry? Or an upstand of vapour barrier and then your membrane direct over the top. I'm about to start a warm roof using ecothane for the first time (moving away from EPDM and grp)
Also what about expansion gaps for the decking? In the past I've left a small gap around the perimeter up to the masonry and dropped the timber upstand down onto it to cover it. What do you usually do?
Cheers
Hi Steve, I used the same vapour barrier after watching all your videos , it is expensive but worth every penny , I used foil faced celotex insulation with osb 3 top and bottom deck. Will I have any problems with using the foil faced celotex as I noticed you are using a none foil insulation in your demo. Thanks
I wish I had watched this earlier, thank you Steve.
I have a question though…
I have a small storage room built with cement blocks in my farm and recently, the roof fell apart and has to be rebuilt. So I’m thinking to build a room above it and use this type of roof twice. Should be the same concept in both?
Hi Steve, briliant video as I am about to start a Timber frame self build with a sloping flat roof and 300mm upstands all round. So the roof will come decked out and I will now get the Alutrix 600 down as soon as I can get on it to make it waterproof. Do you have any advice on how to fit the supports(unistruts?) for solar panels please? They would need to screw directly into the deck before the insulation goes on I assume? Many thanks. Mark
Hi Steve, very helpful video. Have you ever used Elotene DSN self-adhesive barrier? Considering this, with the primer, for my own warm roof project.
Hi Steve. First thanks for all the videos. They are so useful to an amateur like me. I do have a question regarding green roof construction which I can't find a video for though! I am building a garden room with a green flat roof (5%). I have 6 x 2 joists at 50cm centres and am then using Douglas fir sarking boards to add strength over the rafters. My plan is to then put down a vapour barrier as per this video and then add 50mm of insulation above to make a warm roof. (I am height limited by permitted development so dare not risk more!). Can I then place an EPDM over that and then add the normal elements of a green roof (root barrier, drainage layer, filter, substrate etc.)? Alternatively, some videos (not yours!) seem to suggest that an inverted roof work with the EPDM over the sarking boards and the green roof laid directly onto the insulation would work to? Any guidance gratefully received!
Great video, very informative. The only thing that bugs me is that you talk about the vapour barrier being so important to be completely sealed and then you fix the insulation with screws through the vapour barrier which makes hundreds of punctures in it!?
The thing is is that the air vapour control layer, AVCL is self healing, so when you put the screws through it, it binds up around the head of the screw and there's no leakage. I do another video showing this.
Hi Steve, great information and definitely the best product on the market. When you use the thermal fixings do you need to pop a bit of silicone in the hole once it has been screwed down to prevent an air pocket? Would the edpm not blister over the top of the fixings due to the small amount of air trapped in the fixing?
No, we don't and we have never had a problem with them
Hi steve,
Bought this vapour barrier on your recommendation.
Will this be ok , left open to the elements (new osb sub deck) for a week or so ,before laying insulation then epdm ? Also do you advise gluing t/g osb sub deck joint?
Kind regards
I know this is an old video but it would be nice of you to answer this question. Would installing a vapor control layer between the joists and plasterboard help. Also, use plasterboard with a vapor layer foil on the back. Would these two additional vapor controls conflict each other. My reasons for asking this, could vapor get trapped between the osb&alutrix and vapor control layer plasterboard or does it always rise.
hi steve i have a question:
could i use this vapour barrier on a warm roof made out of wooden boards (i could prime them) or ply is better?
thanks in advance and thanks for the video
Hi Steve, I've watched many of your videos by way of learning before I attempt a self build warm roof. I really would like to use Alutrix 600 as a vapour barrier but it's outside of my budget. It appears that the main benefit is the self adhesive/self sealing bitumen backing. What would your thoughts be on me using a plastice sheeting membrane stapled to the rafters at 600mm centers then covering the staples/rafter with flashband. This with it's bitumen backing would presumably self seal when the warm roof fixings penetrate the vapour barrier into the rafter. I would also use the flash band across any joints and to seal the edges of the plastic sheeting. Your thoughts would be very much appreciated.
Do you need to prime osb or ply before installing the Alutrix, as you use it all the time your thoughts on this are more accurate than my google search
Hi Steve which vapour barrier would you recommend for underside of a cold roof?
Hi Steve, great video's, very helpful. Can you advise me on fixing the KIngspan TR24 insulation onto the Alutrix 600. Should this be glued or can I use the mushroom fixings as you have done ?
Thank you.
We alway fix it down as we have had the glue fail in the past
Can the vapour barrier stick to an aluminium roof and structure bearing in mind that metal conducts heat and cold easily! Will the temperature fluctuations affect the adhesive ability of the EPDM ?
Hi Steve, another brilliant video, many thanks! I have a question regarding fixings when you have a concrete flat roof. Would you use a sub deck first. At the moment it is a felt type covering. Many thanks in advance for any help you an provide!
The felt you have on the concrete roof it good condition and if not if you can repair it and make it sound will act as the VCL, then just glue the insulation over the top
@@SteveRoofer Hi Steve. Many thanks for your reply!! Very helpful. All the best. Graham
Hi Steve. Great content, really find your videos useful. In the model you’ve mocked up for this video it isn’t obvious how the falls in the roof are achieved. For a new build how would you typically achieve this? I normally detail it to have firrings on top of the joists to create the falls.
There’s a builders merchant near me in Chelsea that has stacks of insulation kept outside in all weathers, if it rains and the rain water gets absorbed into the insulation, can it be dried out so the moisture content returns to normal without any damage?
Hi Steve, your videos are very helpful. Quick question. Can an additional internal air tightness layer be added underneath the joists?
why would you want to do that?
Yes but if you have the correct one in place and its working then you don't need it
Can you use those fixings you mention at the end if you're doing a grp roof?
Yes you can use them with any roof covering
There are only 3 or 4 good vapour barriers, are they made to a industry standard that meets the requirements of the roof industry?
Hi Steve, Can you recommend a supplier for Alutrix 600 please? Various web sites seem to be failing to deliver at present...
Where do you buy the thermal break screw fixings
Thanks for these great videos Steve, and I have a question I havent really seen addressed anywhere. If your putting a vcl up the walls of the room below the flat roof, is there any harm in taking this up and across the bottom of the roof joists, along with foil backed plasterboard. Obviously this would be as well as the layer in the warm roof. This would then prevent a lot of moisture getting up into the joists area and lessen the chance of anything getting into the warm deck from below?
The cold flat roof should have a continue AVCL (air vapour control layer) across it that should be laped into the wall AVCL everything should be taped and sealed correctly Air tightness is the most important thing
@@SteveRoofer thanks Steve, I don't think I was clear enough, I meant in a warm roof you have your VCL on top of your lower ply/OSB. But is there an advantage to having a secondary one below the joists too, we are running a vcl up the wall, should we also run it across the bottom of the joists. Just another layer of protection maybe.
Hi Steve Iv love the videos I’m putting a new roof on my detached garage (diy) I’m going to put a warm roof on it, just want to clarify some thing in a previous video u say about warm roof fixing you put a top deck on to hold it all together, but in this video you say about not using a top deck? And do u do the same thing with glueing the epdm to insulation as you would do with glueing it to osb or is there a different method for insulation
Thanks nathan
We always mechanically fix the insulation down with thermal broken fixings others only glue it I don't like that as I've had problems in the past as regarded the OSB use it or don't id up to you whatever you will glue the insulation down use tissue faced insulation
@@SteveRoofer thanks 👍👍
What's the difference between a vapour barrier and a breathable membrane?
Thanks Steve, great video again. Would a more ‘breathable’ type of insulation such as wood fibre be better instead of a Kingspan type? I know thermally it won’t be as good as Kingspan or similar but I’m just thinking if any moisture is trapped it would escape easier with wood fibre insulation? Just a thought obviously.
Thanks
Yes, absolutely its the way I would go if we could get the U values but we cant without building big deep roofs
@@SteveRoofer thanks again Steve 👍🏻
Hi Steve , do you use the primer with the Alutrix 600 or is the self adhesive good enough on its own ? Great informative content 👍
This is an excellent AVCL and is extremely sticky We don't use the primer and it still works If we were going to be glueing things down I would because of wind uplift but we screw everything down so it gets sand wedged down and is never coming up
@@SteveRoofer thanks for the reply Steve, what insulation do you recommend, I have called some local suppliers asking for a non foiled insulation and get told ‘never heard of it’ !
@@Alexnse10 we use KIngspan TR27 or Powerdeck F by recticel insulation
Hi Steve you’ve sold me on this product for a warm roof.
Would you recommend also using it for Stud walls with PIR sandwiched between the joists? (Garden room building) prior to boarding?
No, you don't something so good use something like Polythene Vapour Control Layer 1200 Gauge from Novia make sure you install it correctly
Hi Steve firstly
Thank you for sharing your knowledge
I’m thinking of doing a warm lean to roof
But I think as it’s a new extension it will need to be 150 mm Kingspan
But was wanting to put 18mm osb on top and then rubber
But now feel a bit confused
Can I do that
I think the main thing is I use a good quality vapour barrier
Also could a bitumen type paint be used as a vapour barrier as I have
About 40 litres of it ?
Thank you Steve
Well yes the new specification is 150 mm of insulation and definitely the key is the best of both a barrier that you can put underneath it and make sure that it is air tight. Depending on circumstances I don't know what you would put on top but I would use EPDM rapper nearly every time as it's easy cheap et cetera. We now do not put timber ply or OSB over the top of the insulation because we do not put anything that can rot inside the buildup of the new warm roof. So you end up with a soft roof and that's okay if you're okay with that and understand it if not in the past we have always used OSB. Because we use a good vapour barrier we have never had a problem but I do see many roofs that have problems. Unfortunately using bitumen is a vapour barrier is probably not a good idea as it's on trustworthy
My roof has been specified 120mm . Would 100mm be sufficient?
Hi Steve, very informative video. Just one question I have a flat warm roof extension in progress. The architect has spec'd the ceiling with foil backed plaster board and a vapour barrier under the insulation on the deck. If I then install downlights in the ceiling thereby
compromising the vapour barrier created by the foil backed plasteboard thereby allowing moisture will enter the void between the ceiling joist. Is this ok? how can I resolve this or is it just a problem if it were a cold roof construction. Thank you, Jules
The air AVCL (air vapour control layer) goes directly under the insulation, so he has it wrong question this with him using the info you get from the insulation suppliers. I get this a lot badly designed warm and cold flat roofs by specialists, things are getting complicated but this is a fundamental that shoud be there bread and butter.
Sir why we use lead on roof...??
Must rply
Hi Steve, is the fg35 really necessary? its crazy price and looks a pain to apply
Hi Steve, do you leave spacing gaps between your osb on the base layer or fit it tightly?
Fix it tight but small gap around perimeter
I use T and G with PU glue.
Hi Steve, I'm going to use this Vapour barrier. Do i need to prime the vertical faces of the wood or the one brick wall(existing house) or can I just stick and insulate using the 120mm foil faced insulation. Great videos by the way. Was going to use a plastic vapour barrier until I came across your videos. Thanks and keep up the great work.
I'd like to know this too
Hi Steve just about to use this material, I was wondering about the 4×2 edge detail, would this not lead to cold bridging as the insulation is not out far enough ?
Most roofs have walls under them that are 300mm and more in width so the timber is considered to be outside of the thermal element of the roof therefore no thermal bridging.
@@SteveRoofer Thank you for your swift reply, makes sense when thought about it.
Hi Steve, I see roofdepot do a similar product called technoelast VB-500. Have you any experience of this? Seems a bit more cost effective and comes in a 50m roll which is handy for the roof I am doing.
Looks like the same thing definitely has a good vaper distance, in the past, we have used other brands such as EVAVAP but we have found that the Alutrix 600 is the best because it's very sticky and you normally don't have to use a primer, in one fo my videos years back i m on site in late October so its cold lay the Alutrix over OSB walk over it and try and pull it off, it brings strands of osb with it and that was with no primer and in the cold, in the warn even better
Just to update. I used the above product. Whilst a good product, I didn't find it sticky enough at all. Outside temp was approx 7C. I resorted to using a heat gun over the top once the membrane was in place which improved the adhesion significantly. Not a quick solution though for a 45m2 area. Next time I'll just pay the money and go for alutrix. Cheers.
How much is it?
Hi Steve . Would alutrix 600 be good to use in cold roof system.
No its only for warm roofs
Hi Steve, doesn’t the vapour from below rot the decking below the vapour barrier?
Interesting question but let me answer in this way. All material under the vapour control layer is considered internal your table and chairs in your dining room are also internal. When was the last time you saw a table and chairs rot? It's quite interesting because this is actually a question that is asked many time, it's a logical question and proves you are thinking along the right lines.
Steve Roofer thanks for the prompt reply. Would you put an additional vapour barrier between your joists & plasterboard?
@@barryford7135 no don't do that that can confuse things you have one vapour barrier in the roof and it should be in the right place
Hi
We’re having a warm flat roof extension built and am wondering, will putting fixings through top osb through insulation/alutrix 600 and into joists. Is it worth having an expensive vapour barrier if we’re putting fixings through it.? thanks
yes because the better quality you have before you start the better it will be when its penetrated. Also there is very little movement of air though the holes so its not a problem I cover this in one of my videos about 6 month back
Thanks Steve. I’ll have a look
How long will your promotion codes last for?
what promotion?
Morning Steve I’ve just had my flat roof replaced with warm roof and fibreglassed the vapour barrier they used was a black plastic is this correct?
Unfortunately, if it is plastic and it is black, it's more than likely a damp proof course the colour of vapour barriers is green blue and black indicate that it is a damp proof course. However it's not so much the quality of the plastic if they have not made the joints correctly and generally no one makes the joints correctly so there's massive great big holes. I like to think of it like this if you've got a boat that you make the hellUnfortunately, if it is plastic and it is black, it's more than likely a damp proof course the colour of vapour barriers is green blue and black indicate that it is a damp proof course. However it's not so much the quality of the plastic if they have not made the joints correctly and generally no one makes the joints correctly so there's massive great big holes. Think about it like this if you're making a boat and you make the bottom really really strong, but then you leave a hole in it it's going to sink so even if you had a good fight a barrier. If you've got holes around the edges it just doesn't work
Thank you for replying
Hi steve is this good for the ceiling on a cold roof? great videos by the way
ONly good for a warm roof try looking at visqueens website for cold roof AVCL
@@SteveRoofer thanks steve
😊
Can this vapour barrier be used for a cold roof.?
No you cannot use this as a vapour control layer for a cold roof because this is designed to go over plywood or OSB or some kind of decking. You need a continuous plastic sheet to go under the joists and to be pinned up. The vapour control layer on a cold roof should be continuous and completely airtight and also should be of the correct material
@@SteveRoofer Hi Steve. Great videos. We are doing an extension with a cold "crown roof" (flat with pitched around the three sides not adjoining the existing house) because of height restrictions. We have 200mm tall roof joist so the builders should get a decent amount of insulation between those, and then intend to use 45mm PIR under the joists (to avoid the joists and roof steels being a cold bridge). Should the continuous plastic sheet go underneath the 45mm PIR (with plasterboard over it) or is it OK for it to be pinned under the joists between the joists and 45mm PIR? Many thans.
Do you need the fg35 primer with this?
Yes if you are gluing down your insulation over the top know if you are mechanically fixing it
@@SteveRoofer Thanks for the swift reply - much appreciated
Im not with you on that. In europe everybody uses plastic and it works fine, never problems. Appreciate your input.there are Very few properly trained flat roofers in england.
IN europe perhaps that true but we have different building regulations and plastic not allowed
Hi Steve , could I have your email as I have some questions. Really informative videos 👍
info@londonflatroofing.co.uk
Hi Steve, can I use DPM instead of the vapour barrier for a warm roof in a garden room ? I have loads left as bought a 4x25 roll for the under the floorboards and have plenty left over ? Construction is 18mm osb, dpm or vapour barrier, 50mm Enertherm, 11mm osb, empm (building is a steel framed). www.selcobw.com/damplas-damp-proof-membrane-300mu-4-x-25m-blue