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Tractor Trouble!
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- čas přidán 20. 10. 2023
- Today we are working on the 1650 Oliver and the Farmall Super Mta. We are addressing some small issues with the Farmall. While investigating further into the potential big problems with Oliver. Share your opinions with us in the comments. Thank you all for watching, make sure to check out our other videos!
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I was thinking too bad you didn't have a borescope you could put it down into the cylinders. Thanks Michael
My guess is one of the sleeve o rings is shrinking in the cold weather and letting coolant leak into the oil pan. You could put a radiator pressure tester on it on a cold morning pump it up and watch for a pressure drop pull the drain plug and see if coolant comes out.
I cannot believe you guys still operate with narrow front ends with the hills you have! Much respect
I would see if you can find a shop that has a tester that can check engine oil for contamination. Put new oil and filter on the tractor and run it for a while. Uae it like you normally would. After you get a few hours on the new oil take a sample and get it tested. You might have to pay a little bit for the test but it will be worth it to know if you have a problem for sure
If you have coolant leaking into a combustion chamber, that cylinder (and spark plug) will usually be a lot cleaner due to the coolant flashing into steam and cleaning everything. My money is on cylinder sleeve o-rings. If you discover that's the issue, you should really consider doing them all.
Love the melody of background bells.
I was missing the Oliver. Glad you addressed it.
When you take the thermostat out, examine it closely to see if it is even partly open. Then test it in a pan of hot water.
It should open just before the water starts to boil
A compression test is cheap to do. Bubbles in radiator is also a good sign of a bad head gasket.
I can remember putting our M on the stock trailer to move fresh cows. Our heifers would pull the spark plug wires off and I'd be out in the dark early in the morning putting the plugs wires back on.
Great to see the think tank working on those machines.
Wish I lived closer, I'm up in central Minnesota, north of Alexandria. I have many of the tools needed for this kind of work and the time occasionally to help some folks out. I even have a tractor dynamometer that helps put a stationary load on the tractor for diagnosing issues and figuring out horse power. I have some videos on my channel of working on engines and running tractors on the dyno. I don't spend a bunch of time in Wisconson but I do enjoy the occasional travel!
Years ago when I had horses I alwaays cleaned the barn and barnyard armstrong style twice a day year around. I only started the tractor after the spreader was loaded. But during the cold months the crank case oil would get milky. So once I found that out I started the tractor as soon as I got out there and let it run and get good and hot. No more milky oil. I don't know if that's causing your milky oil but I thought I should pass this along. My best wishes to you and your family.
Whether it’s an o ring or head gasket , it shows up during the cold season because the temperature is shrinking or contracting the material, in the warm months the temperature is allowing the material to expand or stay in it’s need shape & place to hold the water back, also get yourselves a box of XX-Large mechanics rubber gloves , you will be glad you did! Good Luck 👍🏻
Alot of great advice already given! My 2¢ worth is to pressurize coolant system to 20 psi (max) and see if system bleeds down, and if it forces any coolant to leak into the oil pan. You won't risk the engine bearings, and it's faster than waiting for it to heat up.
Even better yet, leave the oil pan off and do what you said and watch were the water is dripping.
When looking for coolant in oil pan the drain plug needs to be at lowest point of the pan capacity so that the coolant accumulates at plug threads. Crack open plug unscrew slowly till liquid drips. After allowing enough time to seperate, the coolant will come out first and should be obvious in its appearance. Was me and severe cold was cause of leak I would install a block heater and keep it plugged in. Would make easier to start also. Love your videos. Keep up the good work.
Is a farmer I've been a tractor off and on all my life, having give you some pointers on the Oliver I will now give you the only way without ruining any parts to get to the fan on the m. At the front end of the fuel tank there is a u joint in the steering shaft the front u-joint has a clamp and a woodruff key loosen the bolt in the clamps and go out to the front end in the steering pedestal that big cast piece in front of the radiator with the big hex plug on the front. Take the plug out and that shaft will come right out on the worm gear. Should take you 10 minutes and you won't ruin anything. You can then get the radiator and bolt it lifted out of the way and you'll have free access to the water pump n fan. I would suggest you repeat the process on the one with the broken fan when you go to repair it would be much easier that way
Those Olivers looked very modern for the time they were build in. '64-'69 they were build and when you compare the Oliver with the Farmall it looks so much more modern, although I don‘t know when your Farmall was build. And listen to that Oliver engine running, so smooth. I love those old tractors. Worked with them a long time ago. Always enjoyed it!
Hi, love your farm and how you as a family work together. Your 1650 probably needs a head casket, as you may find you have an oil way and water way gone. In less you have a water cold oiler. Just something to look at
I said it before and I say it again, if it's just a little leak getter hot, run it up and down the road a few times with some Blue Devil head gasket sealer in it. I been running my International with a loader on it for 4 yrs or more now with no issues
I've missed seeing the Oliver in action. Glad you have some time to give her!
Have an Oliver 1650 myself, just is a diesel. Currently, it has been out of use with needing a new clutch plate put in need to split the tractor. As well as the hydraulics are weak and need to rev the engine to get it to lift or move hydraulic cylinders, and the pto doesn't turn completely off unless pull on it's lever hard
I like the old Oliver glad to see you guys getting it back to work 😊
Great team work. I remember working on engines the same way.
Old Oliver tractors always seem to run so smooth, but then again I am a JD guy.
As others have said that the sleeve O-rings will leak when the weather turns cold as the O-rings shrink in the cold.
Engine runs good probably was a O-ring on one of the sleeves leaking from extreme temperature changes. I've had this happen to my 880 Oliver . Put a bottle of Dike radiator sealant in the coolant and it's never leaked again. I'd bet that would remedy the problem and save you tearing down the engine.
If it was me, I would continue watching it like you are and if you start to see signs in the oil again, pay attention to the temperatures outside into wherever you park the tractor if it’s warm in the shop and cold outside, you’re probably getting condensation in the oil and if you’re just doing short runs with it, it’s not getting hard enough to burn the condensation out
My thoughts exactly. We had the same issue with our M .turns out it was just the thermostat stuck open.
I like your approach to solve your tractor problems.
Check out Chris Lousey he is a former Oliver dealer mechanic and runs almost exclusively Oliver and White equipment
There are high pressure,(cyl pressure)and low pressure, (oil and water). This is a case of water getting into the oil. Both lower pressure systems.... in comparison to the high pressures in the cylinders. which will generally cause overheating and stem from the radiator and water being blown out of the radiator cap IF this engine has wet cylinder liners then it could be a breakdown in the seal at the bottom of the liner where it beds onto the block. OR it could possibly be a porous liner which may not show until the cylinder gets hot (Working). sometimes if this is the case you might detect white smoke (steam) from the exhaust. I worked on an excavator engine that turned the oil to a white /Grey sludge in a day. and the ingress of water into the oil raised the oil/ sludge level considerably. We could not find the problem and it wasn't until I removed the head , the pistons and rods, then put an oxygen acetylene welding torch on white light flame down the bores to illuminate the bore when suddenly beads of water where running down one of the liner bores. When that liner was removed there was a large blow hole in the outer liner wall well down below the travel of the rings so it didn't show water in the exhaust smoke but went into the sump oil. none of this showed on the inside but on closer inspection there was a split mark as if the tip of a needle had scratched the bore. Cold it didn't leak but when heated the minute split opened and every stroke sucked water down Into the sump oil. Love from the UK
Can't blame you for putting used oil out of a good tractor in the 1650 to help scope out the problem. Not like you're going to do a bunch of heavy work with it. Bummer about the fan on the M. Sometimes having a parts source for some of these old jewels isn't all bad. Parts for some of the 50 yr old tractors are getting harder to find, let alone 60 to 70 yrs old.
You know the right place to go you can pick up a new water pump for those m&h engines. They have eliminated the greasable bearings and have started putting in sealed bearings. I put a couple of those pumps to use they work as well as the old ones.
Too late now, but a digital bore scope hooked to your i phone is an easy way to look into the chanbers with the plugs out.
Somethings to help narrow it down.
Head gasket or valves leaks in head cold be indicated by white exhaust smoke or excessive smoke out crankcase breather or look in radiator while running you may see bubbles.
If you don't see any of those things it's likely leaking in the block somewhere like a cracked sleeve, o rings around the sleeves or a cracked block.
Another idea would be fresh oil and filter , run it a while then drain enough for an oil test. Used to cost like $40
Love dad's shirt.... 🇨🇭
It's alive! It's alive!! 😮 Thanks 😊.
Thanks
i would bet on a lower oring.... any way you cut it its a good tractor that is easy to do a overhaul on the motor
We had the heifers eat the spark plug wires off the engine on our super MTA while we were cleaning out the feed wagon.
I had the same problem with my farmall 504, the exact same problem to a T. I caught mine early just like you guys and all I can recommend is tear the head off and send it to a machine shop to have it gone through, might as well throw some new valves, springs, and valve seats in it. throw a head gasket on it and run it. that's what I did and have not had a problem. 2 dinos at 45 horse and some fall tillage later no problems"!!!
You can fiddle around forever and your still gonna know absolutely nothing.
Ya gotta take em apart to know what’s wrong with them.
Tough old farmalls just can’t believe you didn’t wreck the radiator sometimes you get lucky!
Buy yourself a coolant pressure tester. You can get a decent one from harbor frieght. Drop the pan and pressurize the cooling system with the tester and look up from underneath at the bottom of the piston sleeves. If you see coolant dripping then there is your issue. If your oil is milky, then it’s more than likely it’s blowing it directly to the pan, not a head gasket. You can also run it and pop the radiator cap off and check if you feel it puffing.
Im hoping its just a head gasket and no other damage. Sounds good when it runs and maybe just kinda check it daily if you use it and see what you can find.Great video and may you and your family be blessed.
Enjoyed watching the video guy's 😊
Enjoyed your video as always
If there is an auto parts store close they will loan you a radiator pump and a boroscope. Pump the rad up to 15 pounds. Look in the cylinders closely to see any water around the head or walls. Rotate the pistons slowly and check the liners too. Take your time and notice if the radiator pump looses pressure. You can take an old spark plug, hollow it out, and weld a air hose fitting on it. Let your shop air pressurize each cylinder. Look for oil in the water and bubbles in the radiator. Listen for air comming out the dipstick or the oil cap. Easier to see if you put dye in the coolant.
@@texancowboy9988 I don't need anything. Just trying to help with suggestions. You are employed as a mechanic? I worked at a heavy equipment dealer.
Are you guys absolutely sure that you have a coolant leak?? If you have a thermostat that isn't closing, and it's cold enough outside ( like in February) the engine isn't warming up enough to burn out any condensation from inside the engine. It'll turn the oil milky. We had the exact same problem with our Farmall M a few years ago. Start with changing out the thermostat.
I agree with the thermostat/not enough heat I have a tractor that it does lots of small jobs and I swore that I had coolant in the oil. Changed the oil and it was still milky until I mowed hay for 4 hours and it cleaned up
I was thinking condensation also.
An old time tractor mechanic told me to dump a bottle of Heat in the oil, hydraulics and rearends in the winter to take the moisture out of the fluids. He said I didn't run the tractors long enough to evaporate the moisture out.
When they drained the oil, green coolant was running out first not just milky white oil.
Condensation can be a problem !!¡! But also Cavitation Erosion is a BIGGER PROBLEM AROUND THE BOTTOM OF CYLINDERS AND HARD ORINGS 😢😢😢
Grind a batch of feed with the grinder that would warm it up fast?
If you had a leak to your cilinders, you would lose way more oil and/or water. You would have white smoke coming from your exhaust as well. Only then examiing sparkplugs would have made sense. I watched your exhaust fumes and they look pretty normal. The thing that causes oil to be milky is mositure and low viscosity . In freezing temperatures, oil can start looking a bit milky by itself as it will have bubbles building up. Pumps and other moving parts might suffer from cavitation, "exploding" airbubbles due to a higher viscosity of the oil which is caused by a bigger pressure difference before and after these parts (much like bubbles made by ship propellors). Other things are water buildup due to your engine repeatedly warming up and cooling down. Always examine your engine when your engine is heated up properly. And yes, also a leak from the coolant system to your oil system. I think however that the oil should look way milkier then in your former Oliver video.
To me this looks like cold, bubbly oil or moisture/condensation buildup. Your dad was pretty right with the approach of keeping an eye on it to see if it dissapears or is getting worse. If the first, you will know this for the future. If the last, you might have a nice engine rebuild video series coming up ;) There are after market block heaters to prevent stuff like this. blocking off part of the radiator might help in the cold as well. Keep an eye on the temperature then though! It is tricky to get old engines serviced properly if you don't have a manual or other source on how to do that on a specific model (getting a retired mechanic that knows these tractors might be an idea, they might do it for the fun of it. Maybe there is a youtuber that can help you out on this such as @JustaFewAcresFarm, he knows his Farmalls at least). You also need the exact bolt tightening torque values and in what order you need to mount the bolts of the head covers and similar parts on the engine. gaskets need to be replaced every time you open up the engine btw. For cheap stuff, you can try using liquid gaskets (use Loctite) if the pistons allow that, but this machine might be worth preserving properly. I really like the look of that Oliver btw.
I do tests on machines (also on tractors) in a climate chamber. Lots of things happen when they are stressed in the cold, including temporary leaks during cold starts, but never in the engine to be honest. Most leaks occur near the radiator area, at filters, plastic parts and connectors. But these are new prototypes of course. The most trouble is parafinated diesel if below -20°C, even with arctic diesel.
Good luck!
Hmm... true... Indeed not aribubbles, silly me. And yes, they implode instead of explode. I don't know what I was thinking when posting this.
But: improper viscosity does matter though. If you use the same oil in normal temperatures (where the pump is designed for), and you start using it in cold temperatures, viscosity can rise up significantly. The pressures in your system will be way different because of the changed viscosity. (higher on pressure side, lower on suction side) and so can reach vapour pressure. Trust me, I've seen (and heard) it on cold startups of excavator hydraulic pumps, wind turbine gearboxes, heck, even a modified Leopard II. But now I think of it, never on an oil pump for a tractor tbh.... The oil has gas/foam in it when starting up below -20°C though. It also often occurs in the oil of our cooling sytem itself (450kW). That has a system to deal with it automatically. I know that oil companies developed cold climate oils for certain fields to cope with that. Not only a lower viscosity, but also anti foam (higher probabiity in the cold (same reason), additive for faster heat transfer but lower operation temperature while extending the temperature range of the oil and such.@@texancowboy9988
Looking in the cylinders get a bore scope. Warm it up take it on a little road ride to the back of the farm up and down those hills will warm up good.
An old time tractor mechanic told me to dump a bottle of Heat in the oil, hydraulics and rearends in the winter to take the moisture out of the fluids. He said I didn't run the tractors long enough to evaporate the moisture out.
Great advice. we run it in snow plow hydraulic systems and haven’t had freeze issues since. Same with crankcases, transmissions and differentials. I add it to the contaminated oil and run briefly before changing and then add some to the fresh oil. No issues in nearly 30 years of practice.
To me, if the oil & trans. has white, & milky, condensation, but you can tell if it's coolant, I'd use it for a while and keep an eye on it! you mean, vise grips, 1/2 in. wrench, AND a torch! When I do spark plugs, I slip a piece of rubber gas line hose over top the plug, and screw it in or out!
Should let permetex gasket maker set for 24 hrs before putting fluid to it. I'd change thermostat also. Good luck, hope you find issue.
Last fan I needed to change on a H farmall it was much easier to change the whole water pump. The 1650 sure sounds good even if she is sick.
One thing to keep in mind for future use, anytime you have an engine open like you had the Oliver, dust and moisture can get into your engine. Even if you just put the oil pan back on with a few bolts it will help keep dust and dirt out of your engine. As far as any coolant leak, is it going through coolant?
Good question, is it using coolant?
Little late now but if you had an IR Temp gauge you might detect an exhaust port running cooler. Sure hope you get it sorted out. Some times you can’t find a problem without tear down. Have you pressure test coolant system? You might have a cracked head
Great share, your shop is a fine setup 👌 👍.
Pressure test with oil pan off. Probably liner O-ring. If that is the case and you can run Bar's stop leak for awhile.
It could be leaking from the base of the water jackets we had a 1850 do that it had a 310 gas in it im not 100 percent certain if the 265 runs the same setup though
Maybe put air pressure to each cylinder through spark plug and watch for bubbles in radiator. Think about 30- 40 psi
When was the last time you had the Oliver torn down to just the bare engine block maybe that’s the only way you can really get to the source of the problem that tractor is giving you
Cows are definitely curious creatures. Hope everything works out well.
Man that thing runs good
Leave those plugs out and roll the engine over, that way it doesn’t hydro lock and break rings. In the case it has coolant in one or more of the cylinders. And as a diesel and former field service mechanic, I d never put used oil in a machine, not even an old tractor trying to chase down a coolant leak which could be caused by a faulty head gasket, or liners electrolysis or liner o-rings if it’s a wet liner engine. you could wipe out and wreck your engine oil pump and bearings surfaces doing so, not to mention contaminate the entire oiling system. I always use new oil regardless of whether it’ll be wasted.
Pete from just a few acres farm has a huge wealth of knowledge on farmall tractors... perhaps one of his videos would be some help..
I had a tractor doing the same thing couldn't get to repeat the problem so I got some good coolant sealer that 4 years ago and no water in the oil since then
i would bet that it is the orings on the bottom of the sleeves you could take the oil pan off and leave it off and put some cardboard under it and see if you get coolant dripping from the sleeves
I think I'd do a compression test Of course, if it's a head gasket, doesn't the whole head have to come off? But it might narrow it down a little. Someone below mentioned pressure testing the coolant system with a tool borrowed from NAPA. I think I'd try that too, maybe even first.
Great video what horse power is the Oliver
Run it while the valve cover is off and check while it’s idling, to see if you have a cracked head!
I'm not sure but dose your 1650 have an oil cooler that coolant circulates thru to cool the oil if so it may be exchanging coolant in to the oil inside? Just a thought
perhaps just running the engine in the workshop is not getting it hot enough and if she is doing a bit of work it will get a bit hotter
Welcome back? Oliver (N.G)
Hello I had a Allis 190 xt the o rings under the sleeves were bad block was ate out so 24 years ago I sold it and bought a deere never looked back
I would think that the cylinder head gasket between the cylinders. is one possability.
Keep it simple. Put it on a load. I had an issue. By mistake it needed coolant. And got put in crank case. Run it. If the problem presist. Then check again.
Have you heard of
(That Oliver Guy ) he knows every nut and bolt on those tractors maybe he can help you
Did you ever try and get ahold of Chris Losey? He knows these tractors like the back of his hand.
Check the oil cooler.
Why don’t you check for gasses in the radiator? Get a cheap kit from you local auto parts store. That would let you know if your getting combustion gasses in the coolant system and visa-versa.
Growing up on the farm we had a 1650 wide front with an 1850 engine in it that thing flew. Also had a 770 on our feed wagon still have the 770 that was my dad's first tractor when he started farming in 65
My guess would be the head gusket.
Brilliant 🤩
You can roll the screen the other way if can find wielding shop
I was wondering if you guys still getting that tractor running again
Also do a compression test
Can you pressure check the cooling system
Does that tractor have an engine oil cooler?
Time will tell.
Isn't thier a engine shop around ? Just pull the engine and do a full rebuild or put a cummins 4bt in it
How many tractor you have
You can tell that you guys are dairy farmers because you're really milking that Oliver project 😂 no I'm just kidding, but as an actual mechanic, I can tell you all of the keyboard mechanics are going to have a field day with you putting used oil in the engine
Lmao
As long as the bucket was clean and there ain't no chicken feathers floating in it, things will be ok.
I don't know man some of the best engine builds I have ever done I have used chicken feathers in the oil
Use feathers if you want to make your car fly? With chicken feathers?@@Adam_Poirier
With the price of uncle Joey's oil , every drop counts 😊
Put some coresure in and forget it
You might want to try putting some stop leak in and run and see what happens
NO
Worst idea ever. You might want to try that with a leaking radiator but not an engine.
Thermostat is stuck open
Have you seen Stanley?
What job does the Oliver do
I had 5 olvers bet it is the oring on the bottom of the sleeve
A stuck open thermostat in the middle of the winter combined with short running time will always make the oil milky. I'd start with the thermostat.
Cold weather could have a aged O-ring shrinking just enough for coolant to seep then disappear when warmer weather arrives.
Drop a diesel fuel engine in and call it a day