Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD): Related?
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- In this video we want to talk a bit about some of the overlooked differences between ADHD and BPD. Did you know that DBT is showing to be effective for ADHD?
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📚Video Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:47 - Borderline Personality Disorder
02:51 - ADHD
04:14 - The Problem
06:39 - Outro/Newsletter
👇🏻 Please Read:
All videos are provided for informational purposes only and do not constitute clinical or legal advice. The creator, Matthew Ryan, takes no responsibility for the outcome of the uses to which this material may be put.
If you or someone you know needs help immediately, call 9-1-1 in the United States or your country's emergency number, or go to your nearest emergency room.
#bpd #adhd #dbt
My 17 year old daughter has been diagnosed with BPD and ADHD. Dialectical Behavioural Therapy was instrumental in getting her back into a good headspace.
She takes 3 meds daily and still has regular Psychologist and Psychiatrist appointments.
Just finished school and commenced a full time job 3 weeks ago.
It’s not all smelling of roses and she will need continued support for some time to come.
But she is starting to create a life for herself.
Teens can't be diagnosed with personality disorders. It's unethical.
Edit: wow, just noticed that the DSM-5 now allows that... Super terrible idea.
In the past, under 18 couldnt be diagnosed and most providers were weary until even mid-20s because some of that stuff is just developmental difficulties and not going to end up as a personality disorder. Could be something else, like PMDD, or a hormonal imbalance, or thyroid issue.... Those things will make teens act outrageous. I was an athlete and had messed up hormones due to overtraining, then had PMDD, and would have just looked borderline if the luteal phase pattern wasn't noticed and if hormones and cortisol weren't checked during menstrual cycle phases.
@@puddlesplasher7 guess how many girls with adhd are getting the diagnoses of bpd instead..
@@puddlesplasher7 thanks was just about to post the same. dont like the change either.
Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts on youtube helped me, I really wish I'd had this 43 years ago when I was diagnosed. I had psychiatrist and mental health hospital to go to but it was quite useless and waste of 4 years if you ask me. I found a inner child specialist who did the most for me and introduced me to spirituality.
Can I ask what meds are good for BPD I know that nothing I've tried has helped.
You often need only 5/9 or 6/9 of the symptoms of a disorder to qualify, but the symptoms lists of 3 4 or 5 disorders can overlap a little or a lot, and it is up to a professional who sees the disorders regularly and spend lots of time with you to really tell the soft differences like differences in severity and you can actually have 2, 3, or 4.
I was diagnosed with both of these last week and was thinking of how similar the two are. Thank you for making this video!
What about people just carrying around things that upset them when younger (CPTSD Complex), and Autism? These 'disorders' also share many symptoms. Then we have Narcissitic traits, Co-dependency --also part of the picture..that can show up with same symptoms. Last, but not least, how about Bi-polar!!
Hi TommyTwobats, You highlight some really important points. There are so many things to consider. At the end of the day it can be very complex with many factors to consider.
Thanks for sharing this. Much appreciated.
This is where the ICD, the system used in most of the world outside the USA, is much superior. They have abolished the old personality disorders and replaced them with a spectrum type model which records all of the traits that someone presents with and their severity. It allows for a much broader, holistic approach which avoids the reductive attempt to shoe horn things into specific personality disorders that the DSM does. As you allude to, personality disorder is much, much more complex than the DSM allows for and each person can have their own unique blend. The traits, although often very different, are often manifestations of the same or similar underlying problems. The ICD approach reflects the thinking of the likes of the famous psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg, who believed that narcissism was very much caused as a defence mechanism to underlying borderline personality type and as such, the two things were just different sides of the same coin.
@@th8257 thank you…About time we saw the big American book more critically. Thing is, a lot of people make a lot of money out of the book and the general confusion. (Hence, ‘Is it Borderline or is it Bipolar type videos’..) A lot of people have also invented different categories for these disorders too..and so we have videos like, ‘the Five types of BPD’, ‘ three types of Bi-polar’..etc. Not to mention the Insurance and Pharmaceutical industry that uses the book to schedule fees, etc. with the government authorities. What a mess! But more mess means more videos and more videoS means more mess! The perfect marriage?
@@mebeasensei and no real focus on the patient. All about money, insu rance.
Damn... I'm a 25 year old male, I've been diagnosed with Bipolar 2 disorder (recently), and adhd (since elementary). My psychiatrist suspects cptsd, bpd, asd, or some combination as well. It's been over a year since my bipolar diagnosis and I find that I relate more to cptsd and bpd than bipolar, seeing as, I had a rectal endoscopy procedure at the age of three because my mother thought my Dad was molesting/raping me (he wasn't). That was a big confusing trauma for me at a very developmental age. Very confusing for me to try to figure out what EXACTLY is going on with me in terms of diagnoses. However, what I know is that based on the overlap of symptoms with respect to the various 'disorders' that may be affecting me and overlap of a significant portion of patients with those (or some of those) disorders having had experienced trauma brings some sense of understanding to my mind.
Fantastic topic! Using DBT more in my practice for ADHD IN addition to BPD. I describe DBT as “a regulation focused therapy.” Thought of this way, DBT can be helpful for both
Yea, thanks for this video! I have been diagnosed with ADHD. But upon my own research I suspect I have quiet BPD. I’m currently still trying to find a psychotherapist.
after being diagnosed with adhd two years ago i also researched bpd and asked my therapist. She said i was 'borderline' borderline...but didnt do anything to treat it or help with what to do next!
From personal experience, I know the same goes for Inattentive ADHD + Quiet BPD.
Which are just in a sense the introvert version of ADHD and classic BPD.
Yay for having both!! ☺️
Edit since some people really are that stupid: /s
Same, gotta love it or hate it!
I have both, too. It’s a ride. I think you know the difference when the BPD behavior kicks in from a trigger. ADHD stuff is happening all the time, whereas my BPD comes on when something very specific happens with someone I am close to.
You too?
There's nothing really 'yay' about it but congrats, I guess...
Calling others "stupid" who process information differently than you...isn't helpful or kind.
If you don't "get" something...which guaranteed there are things you don't, as all of has our areas of knowledge, and of ignorance, and shades inbetween... how does it feel to be called "stupid". If it hurts, or upsets you, consider not inflicting that on others either.
my inability to regulate emotions, rsd and near constant feelings of abandonment and extreme loneliness. I've been diagnosed with both of these, but i've always been confused about it.
Just to point this out so there’s no confusion between the two, there are major differences between the two. A good source to look these symptoms up how the diagnosis are gone about being diagnosed is the DSM-V which stands for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. This is used to diagnose mental health disorders. This is the criteria that needs to be met taken from the DSM. Five or more of these symptoms need to be met. I only wanted to comment on this because it took me 10 years to be diagnosed with it after being diagnosed with Bipolar 1, ADHD and Major Depression, which all have intertwining symptoms. BPD is specifically known for someone having a fear of abandonment and unlike Bipolar Disorder, the mood swings are just a constant day to day thing, it’s not mania that comes and goes for 3 weeks or so. BPD moods change like the weather, and depending on what region your in and the types of storms each region is capable of having, is what you could get at any moment. You could get a sunami, tornado, hurricane, snow and ice storm, or a all out heat wave reaching over 150 degrees. Best way I can describe it.
DSM-V Criteria:
BPD is a pervasive pattern of instability in interpersonal relationships, self-image, and emotion, as well as marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Chronic feelings of emptiness.
Emotional instability in reaction to day-to-day events (e.g., intense episodic sadness, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Identity disturbance with markedly or persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
Impulsive behavior in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by extremes between idealization and devaluation (also known as "splitting").
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-harming behavior.
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
So if there is no confusion- how could you be diagnosed wrong for 10 years and why do thousands of people clicks such comparison videos?
@@pedroewert143 either co-occurring diagnosis or diagnosed out of ignorance.
My mom is bipolar and BPD 🤦🏻♀️.
@@pedroewert143 Many psychiatrists insist they know what is wrong and keep prescribing higher doses or other drug options, despite crappy results. Many of these drugs dullen all feelings, but BPD depression is different from depression and there's the usual rage.
The drivers and motivations behind the outward behaviors that others see are COMPLETELY different in ADHD vs BPD.
You're saying from a 3rd party observer that they look similar... Ok, some of the outward manifestations look similar, but the reasons are completely different.
What I am trying to say is that the inner experience of a person with ADHD and the inner experience of someone with BPD are very different, although a 3rd party observer may say they're acting similarly.
I think people are forgetting to explain how BPD really looks and is in real life, like the clinical snapshot or case study of a patient. It's one thing to read the symptoms out of the DSM, but those make every condition sound relatable to a layperson... But if you take an abnormal psych course, and have a good professor with years of clinical experience, they will be good at explaining this better, how severe things have to be to be in the clinical ranges.
Also... If you have ADHD and are around people with BPD, and vice versa, you will quickly see that these are NOT similar.
Example:...
I have ADHD, and I was curious about learning DBT skills because I was already getting into meditation and stuff and was just curious about DBT because I was also working with pre-K children with attachment disorders due to being in foster care system, and thought I could maybe teach modified versions of some DBT skills for them if I learned it myself, and my university counseling center happened to run a DBT skills group for people with BPD/traits of BPD, and I asked the psychologist who was that group facilitator if I could join it due to my interest in it, and he didn't have enough people signed up for the next cycle of that group, and was generally amused by my interest and idea of learning it and using modified stuff for pre-K kids ... Ok, so I was in this group with college aged peers with BPD/traits of BPD, and I thought I'd fit in with ADHD things bc the issues that people with ADHD have and BPD sound similar on paper (as demonstrated in this video)... and thought that there'd be overlap and I'd blend in easily, but it's way different... I didn't feel like I fit in at all... I think the group members felt that way, too... There's a way different vibe... I think any mildly experienced practitioner would easily feel those vibes that are way different from individuals with ADHD vs BPD. Their lives are out of control in a completely different way with a completely different intensity than people with ADHD. My life was out of control at times because I didn't manage my time well, was forgetful, let people down sometimes due to that, and spiralled from there with guilt and shame, or times in life where i did social blunders due to talking too much or saying something embarrassing then wanted to disappear into the floor...ADHD issues are more of consequences of executive functioning lapses then mentally beating self up.... ADHD relationship issues stem from others thinking we don't care or that we dont prioritize them because we cant remember important stuff or keep forgetting our dishes in the sink or throwing our laundry on the floor... But people with BPD are doing something very very very different...it stems from a very different place...it's not reacting to oopsy forgetfulness/time management then scrambling like the ADHD people... No no no ... BPD people are like emotional burn victims and life hurts more for them like it would for someone with all their skin burned off, and they're scanning for issues to magnify and do behaviors that make sense to them to show that they are emotionally burn victims because nobody is seeing their pain they often feel like... And they're doing stuff that is just way different then the adhd issues... And often creating issues on purpose although they don't see it that way.
So true!!!
Do you think the self harm with adhd is different to self harm with bpd
Very nice.
I have both 😢
Exactly😳
The relationship I had with my ex was hands down the worst relationship I have ever had with another human being. Toxic, crazy, de-humanizing. After our final break up I started trying to figure out what the hell happened because it wasn't normal. I've come to wonder since if she had BPD as she had almost all of the markers. And I know that not long after we broke up she was diagnosed with ADHD. Very interesting.
I'm literally in the same boat, she told me she had ADHD then after we broke up I found out she has BPD too
@@acedup7776 Wow, thanks for sharing. I doubt I'll ever know in my case, been no contact for 7 years now. Still interesting though.
Boys II Men, ADD...BPD😂😂....seriously though, this is very informative
I was diagnosed adhd but i never did a test for bpd and now i think i have that too
You probably don't. Personality disorders are severe... But the DSM criteria are so vague so it sounds relatable but you likely do not have BPD. You may have some traits of it, but a personality disorder is not easy to be diagnosed with
It takes like a year to rule in a personality disorder. There are 9 symptoms. Many have some but not most.
It is quite common to have traits of many disorders but a full diagnosis is not easy to get. As the person above mentioned, it is a severe and very complex condition to understand, let alone have to live with it.
Would drugs like methylphenidate amphetamines Strattera or Wellbutrin actually help sone people with BPD? Would mood stabilizers actually help sone people with ADHD?
No, the ritalin or dexamphetamine, etc only help with being able to concentrate and focus much better at staying on task.
BPD does have a lot of similarities such as impulsiveness, for example, but it is different and the underlying driving force for it is totally different. BPD is a deeply ingrained way of thought patterns which is negative biased and very much fear based. Black and white thinking, catastrophising, always expecting the worst to happen and hypervigilant in protecting yourself to be prepared in advance for it, chronic suicidal ideation, chronic unwanted intrusive thoughts, self-loathing and a nagging inner critic that is almost like another voice in your head whispering in your ear all the time.
Emotions rapidly changing at the drop of a hat and often just a random thought or memory popping in your head can make you spiral fast into a depressive episode
The only way I have found is by having a great therapist who understands and is experienced in working with personality disorders who provides insight and strategies on how to challenge our inner critics by learning to understand ourselves better and learning as much insight into BPD as we can, then constantly practising on how to gradually change the way of thinking, so we can think positively more often, learn the signs of our stressors so we don't go into overwhelm and can be proactive instead of reactive.
Being around and interacting with other people is the greatest stressor of BPD. Even though the sense of abandonment and extreme rejection sensitivity is at the core of BPD, not all of us crave to be with a loved person, my animals are my loved ones and I avoid people as I don't like being around them due to anxiety and overwhelm which then makes it very difficult to control my emotions, if perchance, I get triggered and become upset about something or even perceive something that may be along those lines and it makes me remember other emotional upsets. On top of that, stress can easily trigger bouts of confusion that can then turn into either brief or long periods of intense dissociation episodes which are uncomfortable and can become very scary at times.
I have been diagnosed with both ADHD and BPD. I wouldn't wish BPD on my worst enemy. It's exhausting and I'm fortunate enough not to have it as severe as others.
I've been prescribed various antidepressants and also taken the ADHD meds for a while years ago but they only just take a tiny edge off the BPD. Meds don't work for that, only if there are comorbid conditions, which is very common.
What a pain
Actually maybe your right 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The thing with ADHD is , it doesn’t create a bunch of dead souls and broken hearts behind…something called empathy in them, it’s still a disorder but it’s a bit manageable.
Unlike bpd which is a nuclear roller coaster… which I’ll never ever ever ever ever step a foot near those who has it nor I will allow in my circle again
I still pray and feel for them but god dammit far away from me at least or loved ones….. the one advice I would recommend to any person suffering around them is to RUN RUN and RUN never look back..!
I have ADHD and I had two BPD relationships. ADHD is manageable and there is scientific research that patients truly changed their brains by unlearning habits… compared to BPD outbursts constantly gaslighting etc. having ADHD is manageable for a couple BPD is not for the most couples.
I understand that you had toxic relationships, but I do want to point out that the same scientific evidence exists for people with BPD. If a person with BPD is in the right treatment program and, like any mental health problem, if they are willing to do the work, there is a lot of research demonstrating both a remission of symptoms to the point they'll no longer fit a BPD diagnosis, but also that the neural pathways change. Studies show that anywhere between 80-99% of people with BPD in consistent therapy recover from the condition, and relapse is only seen in about 4-10% of cases.
They are not related, not one bit. BPD is a personality disorder, first of all. BPD is in the same category as psychopaths, sadists, narcissistic personality disorder etc, and they are in that category for a reason. BPD and ADHD have a few similarities in how some things are expressed, but that's just on the surface for the untrained eye. They are VASTLY different when you know how both of them actually works. And when you know people who suffers from both of these, you'll know that there are actually no similarities at all. Their core, their inner feelings and their motivations are in completely different universes.
the comorbidity rates are actually somewhat high! i encourage you to look into it
Agreed! I have ADD & BPD including CPTSD. He very well is not a licensed doctor. So a grain of salt for his antics. My Licensed Doc knows these are different. Sadly cuz I come from hell, born into it. Many lack full understanding, especially since he admits having one or the other. Not the same!
Kinda like my written grammar! Most humans are Nazi's over it when AI love me. Glad AI find me wonderful while humanity makes me pitty them n sadly done. It gets so old being miss read all the beeping time!
I must say I do not have my reply/notifications on cuz of the overly 100+ triggers.
But I am all over media! Thank u for having our backs!
i have add and bpd and i know many others who do as well
Yep, have them both!
BPD , ADHD, and CPTSD here. And cluster B disorders are "acting out" disorders. And we're on a spectrum, btw, not everyone is Alex Forrest-level BPD. There are 4 subtypes.
You know it would be nice if people spoke in words instead of ABC codes.