Very good. I'd like to point out though that (at least as far as the old official AD&D goldenrod sheets were concerned) there was no matrices at the bottom of the sheet. You're thinking of Basic D&D's character sheets (although why it was never put on the bottom of the 1E sheets I'll never know - those things were handy).
Old Man Grognard! Huge fan here 😀. I’ve listened to your C&C podcasts, several of your appearances on other podcasts, and enjoy your videos. I think I was thinking of OUR AD&D 2e sheets, which someone had typed (on a typewriter) and then a friend’s parent (who was a teacher with copier access!) made copies ad infinitum. They likely took the idea from the basic sheets, but they were custom made for AD&D 2e, with non weapon proficiencies and all (though no spot for psionics!). Again, huge fan, if I can ever help in any way, give me a shout! You’ve introduced me to so many OSR products over the years, I should likely have an OMG (ol’man Grognard) wing of my collection.
Not at all, I was really meaning that they were either being a) hyperbolic about its difficulty or b) they had never actually played using THAC0 and were just parroting what others had said… most were likely option b I would guess.
Cut my teeth on the "New Easy to Mater" basic set from '91, also known as the "Black Box". But really dove deep into D&D with my highschool buddies a couple of years later with AD&D 2e, so the game is close to my heart and history. Still have a shelf full of hardbacks and boxed sets...though nothing like your collection. Still regret not buying up a buncha used boxed sets from Ebay in the early 2000's when they were selling for much much cheaper than what most (even semi-decent quality and incomplete) box sets go for today. CZcams needs more 2e content as well. So keep it up! Some deep dives into some of those boxed sets would be delish.
Oh, I am sure I will eventually cover most of them in some capacity on the channel. I remember a time when 2e books and boxes were VERY cheap. That time has definitely come and gone. Decent condition PHB’s with the old cover can fetch $75. Some of the lower print run options really get silly. Thanks for watching and keep the game alive!
Converted to 2e when it came out. Never left it for another. Been playing since 1980, with a year off, here and there. The rules fade into the background of our games as we are more into the collective storytelling of our adventures. In my experience, the rules do not matter that much, what is critical, is the DM, and the Players, and how they play together. Cheers!
Thnx, sir! I played 2E from day 1 until 2003 when I left the hobby....it was my go-to as a DM for many happy years of gaming! 🤓👊 I ran some Greyhawk for a few years and then switched over to Forgotten Realms when it hit and also quite a bit of Dragonlance as well! Most of my college apartment living room wall was those FR maps. 😋 I'd love to hear you deep-dive 2E for us, because, like you said, it simply doesn't get enough love at all! I tried to do a little, and want to do more of it myself, but would really like your take! Thnx again, sir! 👊
Thank you for making this video. I feel the same way about 2nd edition. I think it is a shame it hasn't gotten the appreciation it deserves. I started with either 1e or Basic. I cant remember because it was so heavily homebrewed by our DM that you wouldn't recognize it. When we moved to 2nd edition we made our best Tabletop memories of all time. I've been thinking about running or playing in a 2nd edition game. It's going to happen.
You know for a few years I looked fondly on those 2e years… then finally I just decided I was going to revisit it with my boys. It’s been GREAT. They both asked yesterday if we were playing again this weekend. Success!
Very informative video about AD&D 2E! Will come to it one day! I will probably go for a Gold & Glory Hardcover when I do 2E supplements and settings all look very good! PS: Love your videos, they keep me into the hobby even though I am not really able to play from now until the end of the summer
I really appreciate your comments Juauke, you are consistently adding to the conversation here. Gold & Glory is a very inexpensive and well done version of 2e. Keep your head in the hobby and you will eventually find your table time. I took a 10 year hiatus at one point.
@@booksbricksandboards783 you're very welcome, your content really helps Thanks for confirming that Gold & Glory is indeed a good way to get into it 😁 I will do my very best to keep it, I just hope my players and I will find time to play again (however online because I had to move) this summer at best but one day at worst 10 years is a lot but you came back
@@juauke Gold & Glory is well done, however, if you are interested in Specialty Priests (SP's), it has one line about them -- period. For me, the SP's are the bomb, in 2e. The official rules have little on them, and what they have, is a bit off-kilter. If you prefer the original 2e, you can get good quality POD copies from DTRPG. There are also old hardcovers available on Amazon and e-Bay. Cheers!
I spend my Tuesday evenings either running Hyperborea, an OSR based on AD&D 1e, or playing AD&D 2e. The races and character creation option through the books for 2e allows some very unique and crazy creations.
I came into AD&D with the black reprints of AD&D 2nd ed. Loved it. I came from BECMI to AD&D and thought it was fab... 3rd edition took some getting used to.
We already had all of the books by the time the black covers came out, so only one buddy of mine had them (because he had everything). 3rd edition was exciting at first, because it felt more like the CRPG’s at the time, but it quickly lost its appeal when I was running large groups or teaching new players.
Still love 2e, played a ton of it while I was stationed in Germany from 89-92, as it was the only RPG we could get on post back then. I keep trying to get my current group to play a 2e campaign.
Mike, thanks for your service sir! I have several family members that served during the same time frame and have heard there was a lot of TTRPG going on at the time on base. Hope you can get your group talked into it buddy.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Thanks. Yes, we played a lot of 2e in Germany, and a lot of the guys I was stationed with there all ended up at Ft Stewart, and we expanded to other game systems when we got back with more access.
I played about everything I could get my grubby little hands on from 1985 to 1995… then I discovered weightlifting, cars and girls for a while…but still came back to the gaming.
Germany is where I learned to play AD& D first edition. I was there in the early to mid '80s. I thought that was cool when I read this so I had to put in my two cents about it. But I was in the Air Force man and that's where I first ran across this game and I've loved it ever since. I currently play in a 2e campaign. And I'm loving it. I was a forever DM and this is the first time I've got to be a player character since the '80s.
It's my preferred addition. It's what I collect. And currently, after 20 some years, the addition that I'm playing in. It's a homebrew campaign story based in the forgotten realms and it's awesome.
So, I just recently found a group to play it with me again… after a 26 year hiatus (from 2e not altogether). My two boys, one of whom tried and didn’t enjoy other editions with larger groups, tried 2e and loved it! So I am once again able to play it with a group(rather than solo)! I’m doing a video soon on the reasons it should be considered in 2024, and the many different entry points to the game. Thanks for watching!
AD&D 2e is an absolute gem of the OSR. I’ve come back to it in recent years and it’s my favorite edition of D&D and I’ve converted a few tables to the path of 2e.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I told them I want to run 2e and they went “sure”! 😂 I then made sure to lessen the “dreaded” burden of THAC0 by me doing all the math (not that it’s hard) behind the screen for them. It felt to them like ascending AC then. I don’t mind telling them the AC target number they need to hit. That took care of the biggest “issue” for them. The quirky non-uniform dice mechanics don’t matter to them.
I had a guy in my group, who was willing to play Old School Essentials mind you, tell me that he refused to even try anything that said AD&D on it. I said why, and he told me because THAC0 is stupid. I said, I can convert on the fly to ascending AC for you, or give you a card that converts for you. He said, not a chance, not going to budge. He ended up leaving the group after he got married, but still remember the conversation. I explained the difference and the simple math, he didn’t want to hear it. He had the rest of the group so THAC0 averse that I probably couldn’t have gotten them to try either. Lol. That said they’ve tried every other system I asked so probably should be thankful.
That is the same path we took… BECMI, with elements from 1e, then straight into the full 2e experience. Same campaign, just converted over mid game. Where I learned a lot of the core elements of roleplaying!
God this brings back so many memories. This was our game. We did the same thing with each person focusing on certain books, etc . Darksun though... Dang I miss that setting. This brings back many happy memories!
Rob, absolutely! I loved Dark Sun, but I HATED the 2e psionic system which is why I Have converted it all to Savage Worlds (I call it Savage Sun), where the psionic Wild Talents just become a power… very slick.
It was actually a pretty easy conversion. The Fantasy Companion seemed to ‘plan’ on people playing Dark Sun with it, so all the races have analogs, or at least very close choices that can be edited to be matches. The Wild Talent thing was hardest to figure out, but just made a setting rule, every Wild Card is a Wild Talent, and gets the Arcane Background “Gifted” edge to represent that. It actually covers about every possible choice from the complete book of psionics!
I run AD&D with just the core book and maybe the Tome of Magic. I have a great time with it. If we want more options, the class handbooks are there, but the base game is excellent as-is.
Agreed. I think the base is extremely solid, but with the options available it can appeal to most groups, because it has the options to be as simple or complicated as we want to make it.
This is a fun video, thanks. Our core group (6) played 2E/Ad&D on Sunday afternoons, with one or two others joining as their work schedule allowed. Either BBQ chicken, or order a Domino’s pizza, whose drivers rarely delivered on time (within 30 minutes or it’s free)! We had lots of good games, for about 4/5 years, then three of the group moved for jobs or family or whatever. We didn’t worry about things we didn’t care for. Simpler times.
You are welcome. It’s funny how we all experienced such similar times with this hobby, despite miles and lack of internet… the hobby kind of raised us in a hobby family if you will. I don’t suppose you had Jolt Cola with your Doritos and pizza, because then I’m going to have to say you and I may be long lost gaming brothers. Thanks for watching!
Hidden Gem. Most people seem to think that all the extraneous sourcebooks define the edition, when they are just meant to be supplements. The core game is excellent. More options than B/X, cleaner and more concise than 1e. It's perfect, and the art is the best in D&D history.
Joel, you are not wrong. Easley, Elmore and Brom, those three define the game for me, and they are prevalent throughout. I enjoy the core game thoroughly!
@@booksbricksandboards783 that picture of an adventuring party who had just slain a juvenile green dragon, painted by Larry Elmore in the beginning of the player's handbook is my platonic D&D image.
I know exactly the one you are talking about, and that being removed was my biggest complaint of the revised version of that book. It tells a story all on its own.
@booksbricksandboards783 the revised editions might have had better editing, I don't know. I barely bothered to read them. I was really turned off by the downgrade in the art.
@@joelkurowski7129 I didn’t own them during my 2e playing days, but briefly had a set in my collecting period. The interiors did have some additional editing perks, I have the PDF’s now. The art and clinical look of the layout was a turnoff, but the worst part was the covers… not just the art but the style. You go from a PHB that is completely Easley art, with that bright and bold logo, to a bland red logo, bland black border, and a ruddy brown tone piece of art in the center…just not appealing at all.
I loved the novels and adventures for 2e, and the handbook series, and at the time of publishing was all in! I probably read the majority of 2e products but bailed when 3.5e arrived. Although I love the flavour and settings, I just never connected with the rules (which would send me into mad spirals of homebrew). My favourites are 5e and Basic, but I still mine 2e for ideas. There is a ton of good stuff there, and I love seeing how 5e borrows a lot from it.
Most of the settings either started in 2e, or were mostly fleshed out in 2e. I seem to remember that a lot of the 5e subclasses were based upon 2e kits. I initially got excited each time WOTC would announce an expansion that revisited a 2e setting, but every time I was disappointed in the choices they made. I eventually just decided that I’d stick with the versions of the settings I like. Thanks for watching!
@@booksbricksandboards783 I like most the core rules, and I've learned to wait and review modules. Not that quality control is perfect with any of the editions with any RPG. ;)
Agreed… the setting definitely set it apart from everything else. As compared to 1e, it is better organized and offers way more options as a whole. The only areas of legitimate beef between 1 and 2, seem to be more a matter tone… even the xp change, which I also prefer in 1e, is an optional rule as outlined in the DMG. So basically the stuff I didn’t like as much, is an official option in 2e (like treasure based xp rewards), and a matter of naming… nobody is calling a monster a Baatezu or a Tanaari, but that’s fine because EVERYONE knew what they were anyway lol 🤣. So for what was a couple minor and fixable issues, I got options galore, settings for days and a greatly improved layout for what I consider the best version of D&D, which is Advanced D&D (the second edition being the pinnacle of that). If I were to include 3rd party retroclones, I would say Hyperborea is a system improvement beyond that, but as an official line, 2nd edition is my favorite.
Ah, the sweet pain of having gotten rid of the core books along with some of the others. I still have that very same FR box, the complete guides and some other goodies thankfully. Maybe one day I'll get my hands on a new set of the core three. After all, this was the game I first started playing together with my wife. Btw I'm really enjoying seeing your collection! Pretty cool!
Paavo! Thanks sir! I find the walls of text comforting after looking at the shiny but ultimately more superficial recent offerings. The boxed sets are just such an improvement over anything since.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh yeah 😅 I'm not sure I would have as much patience reading that much these days but back then I would devour everything I got my hands on 😁
Our Thursdays 6-9 group just ended a 2+ Year 2e Campaign ... We rotate Dms and the current DM is running a 1e Mysteria campaign. We have 9 Players now (One just moved away). and I run a 7 Player Lankhmar 1e Campaign Every Sunday 5-9 ... both in Florida.
Say what you want about it for good or ill, 2E pushed out a lot of settings and setting support content. If you couldn't find a setting to love in those days, you were probably not trying. In addition to the ones in this video, there was also Birthright (fantasy with a focus on politics and domain play). Council of Wyrms (you played as dragon hatchlings), Red Steel (a land plagued by a magical curse), and a big expansion to Greyhawk (Gary's O.G. setting) with the Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes boxed sets.
I did briefly mention Birthright in the video, but without the box as a visual it was easy to miss! I enjoyed Council of Wyrms as a player, but it was not an easy task to DM. Red Steel I never got into, so can’t talk much about it. As for Greyhawk, I used the Free City of Greyhawk box, combined with the Greyhawk Adventures book. Never tracked down the other 2e boxes (but did have the 1e one for a bit!). The other that I touched on ever so briefly, but didn’t give enough time is Dark Sun, as it will be getting its own video. You nailed it when you said there is a campaign for everyone, sometimes several!
I've written a ruleset for AD&D 2e in FantasyGroups and a compatible ruleset of similar flavor in Foundry (called ARS). My favorite game. Can't have to many people playing AD&D.
Mike, I have never played online yet, so I am intrigued by the prospect. I just never knew anyone playing online, and figuring out how to find an online one shot was intimidating… plus I had a group and solo, but the online games are something I’d like to figure out!
@@booksbricksandboards783 I've been fortunate enough to have a group of friends since high school that have been core of my group tho we've picked up several new ones over the years also. There is a discord for Foundry or the forums for FG... will help out if you are interested in finding folks for your Virtual table. I'd be interested to know which VTT you decide to go with ;)
Mike, I’ve never even used discord. Lol. I’m an old man, beyond my chronological age it seems🤣😂. Honestly I just need to get a good tutorial and the time to learn it! Thanks buddy!
I LOVE 2nd edition AD&D!! I stopped being invited to my gaming group after they moved on to 3rd edition, because I became considered a 2nd ed. Fundamentalist. 😐 If there is a way to find a group still playing this, I believe my old Lich Lord character, Balthazar is still running around a dungeon somewhere!
While Red Box will always be my first "D&D", AD&D 2e was the game in which I started playing with my first real group. I'm a fan of any TSR era (A)D&D system but 2nd Edition is the only one I'll run. Clear system rules, plenty of optional rules, easy to house rule, and a multitude of settings from which to choose to play in.
Love hearing this. I always found it a little odd that people hold against 2e that there are SO many optional rules… they are optional, so if you don’t like them, don’t use them. I mean everyone I knew that played 1e had as many house rules as one could shake a bardiche at. I found a new optional rule today that I didn’t remember, but quite like in the DMG. The second option for critical hits gives you an extra attack roll, and it keeps going until you don’t roll a 20… so mitigated exploding dice. Really like that, but always played double damage in my time.
I'd like to check out AD&D2e a bit more. I managed to get the core collection of the Easley 1e books and have been playing in a 1e campaign. My brother managed to find a 2e player book in a random box of books his neighbor was getting rid of. It looks cool but I havent dove into it yet.
Running 2e games right now and even a few 5e diehards admit that it actually works reasonably well. They keep showing up in discord/roll20 without fail(7 months and counting) so it cant just be me that is enjoying it. I decided to go back to 2e since so many video games I grew up with in the early 90s were based on it or influenced by it. Its a solid system with 24 years of content at your finger tips
I have an extensive collection of AD&D 2E and it is my preferred version of the game. I also really like the Rules Cyclopedia. The less I hear 5E devotees opening their mouths on Dungeons and Dragons the better.
I don’t mind new players talking about D&D, but for them to talk negatively about systems they have never played, and most often never even read is really off putting. Rules Cyclopedia was a beauty. Before he was the Elf guy, Aaron Allston was the Rules Cyclopedia guy😀. Heck, I may be misremembering the timelines on those two, RC might have been after elves. But either way, great book.
2e was my glory era of the game. Fondly remembered and loved. The book bloat was crazy though. Lots of options, to many IMHO. I miss the detail that they put in to these supplements. The new 5e stuff is sadly lacking when compared to these tomes/boxed sets of old
Great thing about the old stuff is that the most valuable parts are as useful today as they were then, the maps and the stories. I think some self policing is necessary to enjoy 2e.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I love most of all...but the full page pictures are awesome...it takes me to another place and really take my imagination to another level
@@booksbricksandboards783 exact the same for me...I hate the art from 3.0 foward...it took away the magic...you cannot see a clyde caldwell or jeff easley art and not be inspired...
playing 2e now. THACO is difficult for some, but it was back in the day. When I played it originally. Having fun with it today. I find it to be bloat minimal compared to later editions. Just keep gaming all, even if math scares you. 😃
I remember being excited about THAC0. Wait I don’t have to rewrite my matrix every time my attack level changes? I just write one number? Sign me up! lol. I’d play it now if I had the group that was into it. Probably just a solo game for me, at least for a while.
Controversial opinion: The "splatbook bloat" is what, to many 2E enjoyers, makes it the superior edition. Yes, I said it. The brown books, while not perfect, were great. Kits are bad ass. They add a lot of flavor and make it so not every player's PC is the same. One player's fighter is not like another player's fighter. They also added a lot of new proficiencies and skills that are very useful. Anyone who dumps on the brown books obviously misses the entire point. Add to that all the awesome setting materials and a DM has so many tools than any other edition I can imagine. Aa for devils and demons names being changed to baatezu and tanar'ri we explained it as the original terms being what mortals called them. The new names are what devils, demons and mortals like high level mages call them. Baatezu and Tanar'ri are their native names in the Hells and the Abyss. Why TSR did not explain it like this is beyond me. 2E is the best edition IMHO. 2E 4 life.
Anon, boy will you appreciate the video I’m dropping tonight. It goes into some detail on some of the very topics you are talking about. I have it scheduled for 4:00 PM CDT, and not only do I reference the brown books (which I have the whole collection), but also the settings as two of the 5 strengths of AD&D 2e. I agree with your comments, but I also felt like I needed to address the common misconception about some of these. When I talked about varying quality, I think there were likely books for everyone, but I’d also be surprised if anyone liked all of them. For me the Chronomancer’s handbook and some of the adventures were misses for me, but largely the setting and regional boxes and the PHBR series are big hits!
I was surprised (shocked, really) to see that there no Dark Sun books in your sample stacks, but I was glad to hear that you were on the Dark Sun stuff for your group. We never had any problem with THACO at all, it was literally never an issue, so all the blah-blah wah-wah about THACO has never really made sense to me. We never had a problem with the matrix either, and, weirdly, THACO actually felt like an improvement. Setting-wise, 2E was all Dark Sun all the time for us, man. Dark Sun was amazing. It was just what we wanted at that time, having played the High Fantasy stuff for long enough. You should do a full video, or a series of vids on Dark Sun. That Brom artwork alone would look great in the thumbnails. Thanks for posting this, man. Good stuff.
DeeBee. I plan on doing a Dark Sun video in the future. I have the Dark Sun boxed set, as well as a softback reprint of it (for rough use), and a reprint copy of the gladiators handbook, and a spiral bound print of the monstrous appendix. So, I do indeed enjoy Dark Sun. My one beef with it, is that the Psionics system for 2e never felt right. I understand wanting to do something different than the magic system, but it just felt too mechanical to me. When reading the Prism Pentad, I felt like that version of psionics was not what I got on the table. That said, if you just have wild talents it probably is better than I remembered. I loved the setting, the power boost, the races, the class changes, the magic system, the monsters, the breakable weapons… just not the psionics. That was why I converted Dark Sun to Savage Worlds, specifically because it could handle the psionics better. I will do a Dark Sun video though! Since you are an enthusiast, what is your favorite Dark Sun race? Mine is Mul, followed closely by Half Giant.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh, Mul for sure. Don't laugh, but I also really dig the elf in Dark Sun. My favourite character that I played was a human though - my version of Mad Max meets John Carter, and he managed to survive, so, I live! The Psionics were a bit much. Dude, I would love to see your Savage worlds conversion. Are you going to do a video on kit bashing?
@@deeebeee1758 DeeBee, totally get the elf love. These are not your dad’s elves. Tall desert savages… after reading Rikus’ story, I just loved the whole Mul concept. I don’t know if anyone besides you and me would be interested in my conversion. I tell you what, I’ll do a poll and if it is shut down, I will share it with you (for your own enjoyment), if it is popular I will do a full video. Fair? Not this week though, as I need to get WWON video for May done!
@@booksbricksandboards783 Sounds good to me. I feel like a lot of old punks like myself might find the Dark Sun conversion of great interest. Take care, man.
So the one was the box with the wizard that is in the video. The second is the “gold” box with the horseman from the first edition box on the cover. The one in my video is the newer.
The only thing 2nd edition was really missing in my opinion is that it needed skills. I also liked that monster damage was kinda arbitrary in that it was usually directly tied to an attribute as it has been since 2nd edition. A final note that I enjoy about 5th edition is that it takes a note from 2nd where it magic items aren't just everywhere or can be created easily and are more like relics from ages past. 3rd ed turned magic items into a sorta Santa's workshop type thing and even worse it made no room for low magic games as far as CR for encounters went, no you were intended to have X amount of magic festooned about your person by each level so that you glowed brightly when detect magic was cast.
So when you say it needed skills, do you mean a different system than the Non Weapon Proficiency system? That is what I think most would refer to as a skills system, but might not be the way you prefer it be done (which is a common complaint about NWP system). I think regarding magical items, there is a large variance between campaigns and DM’s. I do think that 3rd edition relied upon magic items to make up for inherently weaker classes at higher levels, but to some degree it is always the case that a high level fighter is only going to be as good as his gear, while a high level caster is going to be a terror no matter the equipment.
AD&D 2e is what I run today. Being an organizational improvement over AD&D 1e while remaining 99% compatible with older material that I enjoy makes it an all too appealing choice for me. (I know my comment isn't adding anything new to your fair and comprehensive coverage of the game, but perhaps it will help the algorithm be a bit kinder to your channel that deserves an even wider viewership.) Congratulations on the milestone. Cheers!
Fred, you have an excellent taste in games and I certainly appreciate your taste in channels! Thanks for adding to the conversation. Out of curiosity, of the TSR settings, is there any you like more than another?
2ND edition and BECMI are my faves cause I started with them, there are some things in 1st edition i like, but over all I don't like the books of 1st lol
I enjoy reading Gary’s particular style of writing, which is one reason I enjoy Hyperborea as well (Talanian is the closest modern author to Gygaxian prose). That said, to play from that is a chore to be charitable. Some great half completed thoughts and ideas. First edition rules are like rungs to a ladder, but it became eminently more usable when 2nd edition put rails with the rungs.
Jay, we all had that monstrosity… and every one of us had torn sheets. Then the appendices for the different settings being loose inserts just sucked when we all converted to the book. PDF’s of those are a big upgrade. I printed some out and spiral bound them.
@@booksbricksandboards783 They liked getting creative with their products back then. Sometimes it worked, I still have my Dark Suns books, and sometimes it missed. The first reprint of Ravenloft for AD&d 2nd ed had a lot of stuff with it, but it wasn't great.
Page 176 of the revised DMG states that in order to find a secret door, a character must intentionally search the area, a 20’ section of wall taking ten minutes. If they search the correct area they automatically find it. Elves and Half-Elves detect secret doors is a random roll that happens passively, not something that they need to dedicate their attention to.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Searching for concealed doors reveals them, not secret doors. Consider this statement from page 176, “In very rare cases, the character may discover that the secret door exists (by finding its outline, for example) but not know how to open it. In this case, a separate check must be made to open the door.” A separate check from what? What kind of check first has to be made to then make a check to open the door?
I see your point the language is confusing, but I would say this… concealed doors are what I would traditionally call a “Secret Door”. I believe what they are calling a “Secret Door” is calling back to the fantasy fiction trope of “you must stand at the highest rock when the full moon’s light shines to reveal the location of this door…” kind of thing. They were encouraging puzzle creation, and imply that there may be other steps the DM would ask you to take to discover the door…(ie sing the special song, solve the riddle, etc etc). The separate check to open just implies that, just because you found it, does not mean that it opens for you 😀… oh and if you fail the lock pick check you can’t come back for another level! The wording isn’t perfect by any means, but I think for the audience it was aimed at, that were custom ruling half of the game in AD&D, this was more clear than to a modern eye.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I appreciate what you’re trying to do here, but the real answer is that finding a secret door is accomplished by rolling a 1 on a 1d6, unless you’re an elf or half half, then it’s a 1 or a 2. We know this because that’s what 1e AD&D clearly states. Or, you can follow the DM Miscellany rule and do a wisdom (roll under) check. TSR admitted to this oversight in a Sage Advice article, but never corrected the missing rule in any revisions and reprints of 2e. My entire point is that while I agree that 2e is a gem (I’m running a campaign with it right now) it is not without its warts and problems.
@@red_wullf I’m really just trying to answer your question, no hidden agenda here😀. I have not read that Sage Advice column, but I do believe that the way the Revised DMG describes the “concealed door” process, it seems to be how most of the tables I played at would describe a “secret door”. In that case, it doesn’t seem like this is as confusing as you seem to be saying that it is, to me at least. Keep in mind there are often conflicting versions of what happened and why things were the way they were in the early days. For example I heard an interview on a podcast where a TSR designer during 2e said they wanted to do ascending AC in the early 80’s but were shut down by marketing because it would invalidate previous products. I’ve heard others from the same era talk about the issue as being much less a concern and more just, this is the way it is done and it’s fine. So, yeah, possible that they left that out as you said, but also, as written I see no issue with that rule and was easily able to figure out a logical way it works as written. I actually gave a list of 5 of the biggest complaints about 2nd edition in this video, so certainly didn’t intend to make it sound as if “it didn’t have its flaws”, and pretty sure from the comments I have gotten (here and by email), that most folks didn’t take it as I was saying that. Thanks for watching and the discussion.
That is a pretty broad set of different styles… the original core books had Easley and Elmore stuff (for folks that dig the fantasy novel look), Dark Sun had the Brom classics, I believe Planescape was mainly DiTerlizzi, Ravenloft (at least the early stuff had a very Hammer horror vibe), etc etc… just a lot of different artists and styles for 2e.
I think its a black sheep because it only has one clone and that one doesn't capture the spirit. The game itself requires some trial and error to support correctly. The options in the Fighters Handbook are practically required for the combat system to fully function if memory serves. The Priests handbook is the best splat handbook ever produced full stop. I've heard good things about Combat & Tactics but because it was late stage 2.5 and I was burned by the absolute mess that was Skills & Powers I never gave it a shot. Nowadays I'd run: Original print core: accept no black covers, the current pdf, or any of the WotC reprints. They buried the best layout in D&D's history and proliferated the worst. The covers in the video are for the correct print. Fighter priest and thief handbooks Tome of Magic Monsteous Manual + All the monster supplements you can find. A proper clone would need to have these options to recreate the average 2e table (minus all the monsters).
I think I agree with a lot of what you say here… I don’t think the game is in any way unplayable without fighter handbook options. I would say combat is every bit as playable as 1e or BX without the fighter options. I also think all of the Player Option books are a mixed bag… they feel like a bunch of play test options that TSR never developed, giving a toolkit to build the game to your liking. The original prints and internal artwork therein is awesome. Also, do think it would be very helpful if it had a better known retro clone, but what prevents that is the core game is so close to 1e mechanically, and the advantages are largely in the improved editing and layout… where it departs from 1e mechanically comes with the complete handbook series and other expansions. Just my opinions, appreciate hearing your own! Thanks for watching!
@@booksbricksandboards783 WARNING: Get your reading glasses on. You can very much see the bones of 3E in those late stage 2.5 player's option books. Conversely you can see the 5E background inspiration from the initial four Complete Class Handbooks. There's actually a lot of changes from 1e, starting with being able to determine your target in melee combat if engaged with more than one enemy. Also training, weapon type vs armor, two alternate initiative sequences, Weapon speed and effectively segmented combat etc went "Optional" as opposed to "Required but often Ignored". I skimmed Combat & Tactics this morning. If you're planning to use Minis on a Mat style play, it's pretty invaluable. The core is very loosey-goosey on combat rules, the tide was swaying toward Theater of the Mind. Considering it was released in late stage 2.5E AKA Min-Maxer's Delight, sandwiched between probably the least playtested books in the line, or at least the Skills & Powers book and compatible sections in Spells & Magic. Apparently there are also C&T sections in Spells & Magic, must remember to go back and give those a once over. Let me rephrase - at the time the DM was considered the boss. So what those books were, inevitably, were argument starters. The books would let you customize your character to the nth degree, and when you were done twinking the character to hell and back with the character point system, the DM had to look it over and say "No, you can't give up Turn Undead to get Warrior HD and drip a couple useless spheres to get weapon specialization. Maybe do one of those but not both" I think this was the beginning of the build craze in D&D, the origin of the principle that the books know more/better than the DM, even if they say the DM is the boss, it's a case of say one thing and do another. Essentially the DM and the game designer/company had a divorce, and while the DM remained an adult and wanted the best for the experience AKA raise the kid right and teach proper responsibility, the company realized player options were where the cash was at and wanted to sell out AKA be the "fun parent" who takes the kid to Chucky Cheese every other weekend and loads him up with half a gallon of sugar before returning him to the responsible parent. And to be fair, this worked for WotC when they took over as well. For a while. A few things the AD&D2E retroclone would need, now that I'm not sitting outside a movie theater waiting for Deadpool & Wolverine to start: Many optional rules. 2E was the first version of the game to have optional rules in the core, and the only one to have extensive optional rules (NWPs were optional like Feats are optional in 5E meaning not, but Encumbrance calculation and a multitude of other things are optional per the core, so much so they actually had blue sidebars denoting all of them) In spite of what I just said, just make NWPs the baseline rule because I never sat at a table that it wasn't. A separate chapter (or appendix) for kits, specifically aimed at boosting customization of core 4 (well, mostly Fighter and Thief) A separate chapter (or appendix) for creating Priests of Specific Mythoi, which was something never replicated - a system to create specialty priests that didn't end with them being egregiously OP. Early 2E actually had some persistently decent design. Turning all race/class restrictions into "suggestions" or "recommendations" because that's how they were perceived by players and DMs at the time. Ability score restrictions were expected to be upheld (so lots of people cheated to get that 17 Cha for a Paladin) but seemingly nobody cared if you wanted to play an Elf Paladin. Nobody really played humans all that often because of this, and only a few decades later did I found out why this was A Bad Thing (TM). You could always spot the newb in any 2E group, whoever was rocking a human character. Anyway, thanks if you read this to the end
Gold & Glory is missing a handful of very popular optional rules and since 2e is modular and built on tons of optional rules it feels like the author’s opinion overrode the system’s actual design. In multiple groups I played with in high school and college, basically everyone did individual initiative and about half did weapon speed. Both are 100% absent as options in For Gold & Glory. There were a few others which gave me pause. So it’s not that it’s crap, but it’s incomplete and honestly feels worse organized than the original. Honestly the worst aspect (which you alluded to but didn’t explicitly state) was that AD&D 2e was a bitch to learn from the books but simple to play/play with an experienced party/DM. Finding things was difficult. Lots of optional rules were pretty much “canon” (proficiencies?) and others were just there for 1e holdouts or even there but ignored (did anyone really use the brawling/wrestling/overbearing rules or did the DM always wing it?). Honestly, I am going a slightly different route, building not a retro clone but a mostly compatible, “in the spirit of” OSR rules set. Really, I wanted to replace the PHB/DMG/MM in under 100 pages and eliminate legacy complexities while being 98% compatible with 2e accessories (splat books) and campaign settings. 1e was weirdly uneven and 3e, even though fixing a handful of the things in 1st & 2nd, wound up being too crunchy out of the box (it was infuriatingly slow especially in combat. Anyway, great video and I agree.
@@pixelheresy appreciate it, and I am fully in on the 100 page 2e conversion… there is NO reason that is not possible. Would love to buy a copy from you when you get it done🫡
I think AD&D 2nd Edition is neither... as it does not belong into the cateogry OSR at all, in my opinion. I think the main feature of OSR ist not so much the O as in old, but the R as in rulings. While first edition AD&D had a much more elaborate rules set it still had very blank areas where rulings instead of rules were king. This area became smaller and smaller with the introduction of non-weapon proficiencies with oriental adventures, wildneress and dungeoneer survival guide.... while these books were considered optional, they became formalized incorporated into the rule set with 2nd edition. And in that regard 2nd edition is more an early version of the NSR.. the new school rules... that being said, it stands in the netherland between the old convoluted rules sets of earlier times and the streamlined much sleeker new area of third edition. That's at least how I feel about it.
Fair take, but most people forget that proficiencies were still “optional” in 2nd edition… we all used them because every supplement and module leaned on them, but in the core rules they are still presented as optional rules.
@@booksbricksandboards783 that's true... but I think most people used all the optional rules that increased the "under the belt things" and ignored anything that was not beneficial like encumbrance and weapon type vs. Armor type adjustments... as I said.. i feel 2nd edition hovers at a limbo... marking a turning point just prior to sleek wotc d&d ... it was still organic but already on the fringe of detailed simulation
For me, TSR era D&D is old school, as from a core rules standpoint, without optional rules, it effectively plays the same as AD&D, but better organized. Basic D&D, AD&D and 2nd Edition are all VERY compatible by design, so I would place them all in the old school category. WOTC D&D plays very differently than TSR era.
If you just use the core books and ignore all the splat, it’s a solid system. They should never have gotten rid of demons and devils though. Plus the whole reason this was released was to get Gary Gygax’s name off of the book. I’d still prefer 1e over 2e just because it is really simpler. I never liked N.W.P.’s.
I think the core rules set is excellent, as I think I mentioned in the video, but I do have more love for many of the splat books than most folks out there. Largely depends on what they are used for in my mind, munchkin metagaming? No thanks. But if something in a splat book actually helps a player realize a character they really want to play, I’m good with it. There was a second edition in the plans before Gary’s departure from TSR, he wrote about it in an issue of Dragon Magazine. That said, Gary’s ideas largely didn’t make the new edition, and there was definitely an added reasoning of eliminating royalties to Gygax in the way they did to Arneson with AD&D… in both cases the authors ended suing and I believe making some money on the deal. I’m actually also in the minority on NWP. I know that the balance isn’t there, and they vary wildly in effectiveness, but we used them and I always enjoyed them.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I know a lot of folks used the NWP, it just doesn’t fit my style personally. I can see their uses though. I mostly run Castles & Crusades these days, which is the system Gary Gygax was using when he died and he even said it’s a spiritual 2nd edition to his AD&D. I definitely recommend checking it out. Imagine 1e, rules light, with modern mechanics.
Oh, yeah I have had C&C since the second printing. I actually got it when I wasn’t even playing because the Trolls were at Gen Con and that was the year Gary had died. They told the story of Gary’s participation in C&C and his endorsement. Thanks for sharing sir!
Very good. I'd like to point out though that (at least as far as the old official AD&D goldenrod sheets were concerned) there was no matrices at the bottom of the sheet. You're thinking of Basic D&D's character sheets (although why it was never put on the bottom of the 1E sheets I'll never know - those things were handy).
Old Man Grognard! Huge fan here 😀. I’ve listened to your C&C podcasts, several of your appearances on other podcasts, and enjoy your videos. I think I was thinking of OUR AD&D 2e sheets, which someone had typed (on a typewriter) and then a friend’s parent (who was a teacher with copier access!) made copies ad infinitum. They likely took the idea from the basic sheets, but they were custom made for AD&D 2e, with non weapon proficiencies and all (though no spot for psionics!). Again, huge fan, if I can ever help in any way, give me a shout! You’ve introduced me to so many OSR products over the years, I should likely have an OMG (ol’man Grognard) wing of my collection.
The early THAC0 discussion... sounded like you were holding back from saying "people that didn't get it were just F*** dumb" LOL
Not at all, I was really meaning that they were either being a) hyperbolic about its difficulty or b) they had never actually played using THAC0 and were just parroting what others had said… most were likely option b I would guess.
Cut my teeth on the "New Easy to Mater" basic set from '91, also known as the "Black Box". But really dove deep into D&D with my highschool buddies a couple of years later with AD&D 2e, so the game is close to my heart and history. Still have a shelf full of hardbacks and boxed sets...though nothing like your collection. Still regret not buying up a buncha used boxed sets from Ebay in the early 2000's when they were selling for much much cheaper than what most (even semi-decent quality and incomplete) box sets go for today.
CZcams needs more 2e content as well. So keep it up! Some deep dives into some of those boxed sets would be delish.
Oh, I am sure I will eventually cover most of them in some capacity on the channel. I remember a time when 2e books and boxes were VERY cheap. That time has definitely come and gone. Decent condition PHB’s with the old cover can fetch $75. Some of the lower print run options really get silly. Thanks for watching and keep the game alive!
Converted to 2e when it came out. Never left it for another. Been playing since 1980, with a year off, here and there. The rules fade into the background of our games as we are more into the collective storytelling of our adventures. In my experience, the rules do not matter that much, what is critical, is the DM, and the Players, and how they play together. Cheers!
Very wise statements from a fellow Grognard. Appreciate it!
Thnx, sir! I played 2E from day 1 until 2003 when I left the hobby....it was my go-to as a DM for many happy years of gaming! 🤓👊
I ran some Greyhawk for a few years and then switched over to Forgotten Realms when it hit and also quite a bit of Dragonlance as well!
Most of my college apartment living room wall was those FR maps. 😋
I'd love to hear you deep-dive 2E for us, because, like you said, it simply doesn't get enough love at all! I tried to do a little, and want to do more of it myself, but would really like your take!
Thnx again, sir! 👊
Ray, I appreciate your thoughts sir! I have thought I might do some videos on different 2e subjects, so the possibility is there!
Thank you for making this video. I feel the same way about 2nd edition. I think it is a shame it hasn't gotten the appreciation it deserves. I started with either 1e or Basic. I cant remember because it was so heavily homebrewed by our DM that you wouldn't recognize it. When we moved to 2nd edition we made our best Tabletop memories of all time. I've been thinking about running or playing in a 2nd edition game. It's going to happen.
You know for a few years I looked fondly on those 2e years… then finally I just decided I was going to revisit it with my boys. It’s been GREAT. They both asked yesterday if we were playing again this weekend. Success!
My favorite edition. Loved the Raven’s Bluff stuff. That map was incredibly fun to look at.
So much product, something for everyone! Thanks for watching.
Very informative video about AD&D 2E!
Will come to it one day! I will probably go for a Gold & Glory Hardcover when I do
2E supplements and settings all look very good!
PS: Love your videos, they keep me into the hobby even though I am not really able to play from now until the end of the summer
I really appreciate your comments Juauke, you are consistently adding to the conversation here. Gold & Glory is a very inexpensive and well done version of 2e. Keep your head in the hobby and you will eventually find your table time. I took a 10 year hiatus at one point.
@@booksbricksandboards783 you're very welcome, your content really helps
Thanks for confirming that Gold & Glory is indeed a good way to get into it 😁
I will do my very best to keep it, I just hope my players and I will find time to play again (however online because I had to move) this summer at best but one day at worst
10 years is a lot but you came back
@@juauke yep, never say never… always a chance!
@@booksbricksandboards783 indeed 🤞
@@juauke Gold & Glory is well done, however, if you are interested in Specialty Priests (SP's), it has one line about them -- period. For me, the SP's are the bomb, in 2e. The official rules have little on them, and what they have, is a bit off-kilter. If you prefer the original 2e, you can get good quality POD copies from DTRPG. There are also old hardcovers available on Amazon and e-Bay. Cheers!
I spend my Tuesday evenings either running Hyperborea, an OSR based on AD&D 1e, or playing AD&D 2e.
The races and character creation option through the books for 2e allows some very unique and crazy creations.
Hyperborea is GREAT, love the world and class options! The options in 2e really make it a player dream.
I came into AD&D with the black reprints of AD&D 2nd ed. Loved it. I came from BECMI to AD&D and thought it was fab... 3rd edition took some getting used to.
We already had all of the books by the time the black covers came out, so only one buddy of mine had them (because he had everything). 3rd edition was exciting at first, because it felt more like the CRPG’s at the time, but it quickly lost its appeal when I was running large groups or teaching new players.
Still love 2e, played a ton of it while I was stationed in Germany from 89-92, as it was the only RPG we could get on post back then. I keep trying to get my current group to play a 2e campaign.
Mike, thanks for your service sir! I have several family members that served during the same time frame and have heard there was a lot of TTRPG going on at the time on base. Hope you can get your group talked into it buddy.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Thanks. Yes, we played a lot of 2e in Germany, and a lot of the guys I was stationed with there all ended up at Ft Stewart, and we expanded to other game systems when we got back with more access.
I played about everything I could get my grubby little hands on from 1985 to 1995… then I discovered weightlifting, cars and girls for a while…but still came back to the gaming.
Germany is where I learned to play AD& D first edition. I was there in the early to mid '80s. I thought that was cool when I read this so I had to put in my two cents about it. But I was in the Air Force man and that's where I first ran across this game and I've loved it ever since. I currently play in a 2e campaign. And I'm loving it. I was a forever DM and this is the first time I've got to be a player character since the '80s.
@@WayneBraack so your saying I’ve got a chance to be a player again? Lol. I’ll take it!
It's my preferred addition. It's what I collect. And currently, after 20 some years, the addition that I'm playing in. It's a homebrew campaign story based in the forgotten realms and it's awesome.
That is amazing longevity! Very cool.
My fav edition. We still play every Wed night still.
So, I just recently found a group to play it with me again… after a 26 year hiatus (from 2e not altogether). My two boys, one of whom tried and didn’t enjoy other editions with larger groups, tried 2e and loved it! So I am once again able to play it with a group(rather than solo)! I’m doing a video soon on the reasons it should be considered in 2024, and the many different entry points to the game. Thanks for watching!
AD&D 2e is an absolute gem of the OSR. I’ve come back to it in recent years and it’s my favorite edition of D&D and I’ve converted a few tables to the path of 2e.
Realm Builder, I’ve gotten players to try a lot of different systems, but haven’t had luck with 2e… yet. Any particular method you’d care to share?
@@booksbricksandboards783 I told them I want to run 2e and they went “sure”! 😂 I then made sure to lessen the “dreaded” burden of THAC0 by me doing all the math (not that it’s hard) behind the screen for them. It felt to them like ascending AC then. I don’t mind telling them the AC target number they need to hit. That took care of the biggest “issue” for them. The quirky non-uniform dice mechanics don’t matter to them.
I had a guy in my group, who was willing to play Old School Essentials mind you, tell me that he refused to even try anything that said AD&D on it. I said why, and he told me because THAC0 is stupid. I said, I can convert on the fly to ascending AC for you, or give you a card that converts for you. He said, not a chance, not going to budge. He ended up leaving the group after he got married, but still remember the conversation. I explained the difference and the simple math, he didn’t want to hear it. He had the rest of the group so THAC0 averse that I probably couldn’t have gotten them to try either. Lol. That said they’ve tried every other system I asked so probably should be thankful.
@@booksbricksandboards783 that's nuts how stubborn people can be at times.
2e is wonderful. We merged into it from BECMI and then Advanced, hours of amazing memories and good times.
That is the same path we took… BECMI, with elements from 1e, then straight into the full 2e experience. Same campaign, just converted over mid game. Where I learned a lot of the core elements of roleplaying!
God this brings back so many memories. This was our game. We did the same thing with each person focusing on certain books, etc .
Darksun though... Dang I miss that setting. This brings back many happy memories!
Rob, absolutely! I loved Dark Sun, but I HATED the 2e psionic system which is why I
Have converted it all to Savage Worlds (I call it Savage Sun), where the psionic Wild Talents just become a power… very slick.
@@booksbricksandboards783 whoah. Dude you are the mad scientist of all things awesome!
It was actually a pretty easy conversion. The Fantasy Companion seemed to ‘plan’ on people playing Dark Sun with it, so all the races have analogs, or at least very close choices that can be edited to be matches. The Wild Talent thing was hardest to figure out, but just made a setting rule, every Wild Card is a Wild Talent, and gets the Arcane Background “Gifted” edge to represent that. It actually covers about every possible choice from the complete book of psionics!
I run AD&D with just the core book and maybe the Tome of Magic. I have a great time with it. If we want more options, the class handbooks are there, but the base game is excellent as-is.
Agreed. I think the base is extremely solid, but with the options available it can appeal to most groups, because it has the options to be as simple or complicated as we want to make it.
This is a fun video, thanks. Our core group (6) played 2E/Ad&D on Sunday afternoons, with one or two others joining as their work schedule allowed. Either BBQ chicken, or order a Domino’s pizza, whose drivers rarely delivered on time (within 30 minutes or it’s free)! We had lots of good games, for about 4/5 years, then three of the group moved for jobs or family or whatever. We didn’t worry about things we didn’t care for. Simpler times.
You are welcome. It’s funny how we all experienced such similar times with this hobby, despite miles and lack of internet… the hobby kind of raised us in a hobby family if you will. I don’t suppose you had Jolt Cola with your Doritos and pizza, because then I’m going to have to say you and I may be long lost gaming brothers. Thanks for watching!
Great Video and Fantastic Collection. 😊❤🇺🇸
Thanks, appreciate it!
Hidden Gem. Most people seem to think that all the extraneous sourcebooks define the edition, when they are just meant to be supplements. The core game is excellent. More options than B/X, cleaner and more concise than 1e. It's perfect, and the art is the best in D&D history.
Joel, you are not wrong. Easley, Elmore and Brom, those three define the game for me, and they are prevalent throughout. I enjoy the core game thoroughly!
@@booksbricksandboards783 that picture of an adventuring party who had just slain a juvenile green dragon, painted by Larry Elmore in the beginning of the player's handbook is my platonic D&D image.
I know exactly the one you are talking about, and that being removed was my biggest complaint of the revised version of that book. It tells a story all on its own.
@booksbricksandboards783 the revised editions might have had better editing, I don't know. I barely bothered to read them. I was really turned off by the downgrade in the art.
@@joelkurowski7129 I didn’t own them during my 2e playing days, but briefly had a set in my collecting period. The interiors did have some additional editing perks, I have the PDF’s now. The art and clinical look of the layout was a turnoff, but the worst part was the covers… not just the art but the style. You go from a PHB that is completely Easley art, with that bright and bold logo, to a bland red logo, bland black border, and a ruddy brown tone piece of art in the center…just not appealing at all.
I loved the novels and adventures for 2e, and the handbook series, and at the time of publishing was all in! I probably read the majority of 2e products but bailed when 3.5e arrived. Although I love the flavour and settings, I just never connected with the rules (which would send me into mad spirals of homebrew). My favourites are 5e and Basic, but I still mine 2e for ideas. There is a ton of good stuff there, and I love seeing how 5e borrows a lot from it.
Most of the settings either started in 2e, or were mostly fleshed out in 2e. I seem to remember that a lot of the 5e subclasses were based upon 2e kits. I initially got excited each time WOTC would announce an expansion that revisited a 2e setting, but every time I was disappointed in the choices they made. I eventually just decided that I’d stick with the versions of the settings I like. Thanks for watching!
@@booksbricksandboards783 I like most the core rules, and I've learned to wait and review modules. Not that quality control is perfect with any of the editions with any RPG. ;)
2e is my favorite. All the good parts of 1e, with more polish and settings written to inspire.
Agreed… the setting definitely set it apart from everything else. As compared to 1e, it is better organized and offers way more options as a whole. The only areas of legitimate beef between 1 and 2, seem to be more a matter tone… even the xp change, which I also prefer in 1e, is an optional rule as outlined in the DMG. So basically the stuff I didn’t like as much, is an official option in 2e (like treasure based xp rewards), and a matter of naming… nobody is calling a monster a Baatezu or a Tanaari, but that’s fine because EVERYONE knew what they were anyway lol 🤣. So for what was a couple minor and fixable issues, I got options galore, settings for days and a greatly improved layout for what I consider the best version of D&D, which is Advanced D&D (the second edition being the pinnacle of that). If I were to include 3rd party retroclones, I would say Hyperborea is a system improvement beyond that, but as an official line, 2nd edition is my favorite.
Ah, the sweet pain of having gotten rid of the core books along with some of the others. I still have that very same FR box, the complete guides and some other goodies thankfully. Maybe one day I'll get my hands on a new set of the core three. After all, this was the game I first started playing together with my wife.
Btw I'm really enjoying seeing your collection! Pretty cool!
Paavo! Thanks sir! I find the walls of text comforting after looking at the shiny but ultimately more superficial recent offerings. The boxed sets are just such an improvement over anything since.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh yeah 😅 I'm not sure I would have as much patience reading that much these days but back then I would devour everything I got my hands on 😁
I played from 89 to 93 too, but in the Navy in Guam. We played Thursday, Saturday, and some Sundays.
My cousin was in the Navy in Guam at that same time. Thank you for your service Sebbon!
Our Thursdays 6-9 group just ended a 2+ Year 2e Campaign ... We rotate Dms and the current DM is running a 1e Mysteria campaign. We have 9 Players now (One just moved away). and I run a 7 Player Lankhmar 1e Campaign Every Sunday 5-9 ... both in Florida.
Between that and the weather, yet another reason Florida is better than Illinois! Sounds like a good time! Mystara is a fun setting as well.
Say what you want about it for good or ill, 2E pushed out a lot of settings and setting support content. If you couldn't find a setting to love in those days, you were probably not trying. In addition to the ones in this video, there was also Birthright (fantasy with a focus on politics and domain play). Council of Wyrms (you played as dragon hatchlings), Red Steel (a land plagued by a magical curse), and a big expansion to Greyhawk (Gary's O.G. setting) with the Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes boxed sets.
I did briefly mention Birthright in the video, but without the box as a visual it was easy to miss! I enjoyed Council of Wyrms as a player, but it was not an easy task to DM. Red Steel I never got into, so can’t talk much about it. As for Greyhawk, I used the Free City of Greyhawk box, combined with the Greyhawk Adventures book. Never tracked down the other 2e boxes (but did have the 1e one for a bit!). The other that I touched on ever so briefly, but didn’t give enough time is Dark Sun, as it will be getting its own video. You nailed it when you said there is a campaign for everyone, sometimes several!
I've written a ruleset for AD&D 2e in FantasyGroups and a compatible ruleset of similar flavor in Foundry (called ARS). My favorite game. Can't have to many people playing AD&D.
Mike, I have never played online yet, so I am intrigued by the prospect. I just never knew anyone playing online, and figuring out how to find an online one shot was intimidating… plus I had a group and solo, but the online games are something I’d like to figure out!
@@booksbricksandboards783 I've been fortunate enough to have a group of friends since high school that have been core of my group tho we've picked up several new ones over the years also.
There is a discord for Foundry or the forums for FG... will help out if you are interested in finding folks for your Virtual table. I'd be interested to know which VTT you decide to go with ;)
Mike, I’ve never even used discord. Lol. I’m an old man, beyond my chronological age it seems🤣😂. Honestly I just need to get a good tutorial and the time to learn it! Thanks buddy!
I LOVE 2nd edition AD&D!!
I stopped being invited to my gaming group after they moved on to 3rd edition, because I became considered a 2nd ed. Fundamentalist. 😐
If there is a way to find a group still playing this, I believe my old Lich Lord character, Balthazar is still running around a dungeon somewhere!
Very nice! Lots of 2e “fundamentalists” out there!
While Red Box will always be my first "D&D", AD&D 2e was the game in which I started playing with my first real group. I'm a fan of any TSR era (A)D&D system but 2nd Edition is the only one I'll run. Clear system rules, plenty of optional rules, easy to house rule, and a multitude of settings from which to choose to play in.
Love hearing this. I always found it a little odd that people hold against 2e that there are SO many optional rules… they are optional, so if you don’t like them, don’t use them. I mean everyone I knew that played 1e had as many house rules as one could shake a bardiche at. I found a new optional rule today that I didn’t remember, but quite like in the DMG. The second option for critical hits gives you an extra attack roll, and it keeps going until you don’t roll a 20… so mitigated exploding dice. Really like that, but always played double damage in my time.
I'd like to check out AD&D2e a bit more. I managed to get the core collection of the Easley 1e books and have been playing in a 1e campaign. My brother managed to find a 2e player book in a random box of books his neighbor was getting rid of. It looks cool but I havent dove into it yet.
It will be worth some time.
Running 2e games right now and even a few 5e diehards admit that it actually works reasonably well. They keep showing up in discord/roll20 without fail(7 months and counting) so it cant just be me that is enjoying it.
I decided to go back to 2e since so many video games I grew up with in the early 90s were based on it or influenced by it. Its a solid system with 24 years of content at your finger tips
Very good point on the SSI and BioWare games, that is one that I’ve not seen in the comments and is extremely poignant!
I have an extensive collection of AD&D 2E and it is my preferred version of the game. I also really like the Rules Cyclopedia. The less I hear 5E devotees opening their mouths on Dungeons and Dragons the better.
I don’t mind new players talking about D&D, but for them to talk negatively about systems they have never played, and most often never even read is really off putting. Rules Cyclopedia was a beauty. Before he was the Elf guy, Aaron Allston was the Rules Cyclopedia guy😀. Heck, I may be misremembering the timelines on those two, RC might have been after elves. But either way, great book.
2e was my glory era of the game. Fondly remembered and loved. The book bloat was crazy though. Lots of options, to many IMHO.
I miss the detail that they put in to these supplements. The new 5e stuff is sadly lacking when compared to these tomes/boxed sets of old
Great thing about the old stuff is that the most valuable parts are as useful today as they were then, the maps and the stories. I think some self policing is necessary to enjoy 2e.
Hidden gem for sure!...these books...and specially the art is the most inspiring ever!!! What get me into the hobby was definetely the art!!
Do you have a favorite piece of art from the core books, or just the art style in general?
@@booksbricksandboards783 all of it...but in special the full page drawings
@@booksbricksandboards783 I love most of all...but the full page pictures are awesome...it takes me to another place and really take my imagination to another level
@@henriquecanalle2630 something I don’t feel with the modern stuff as much! Thanks for sharing.
@@booksbricksandboards783 exact the same for me...I hate the art from 3.0 foward...it took away the magic...you cannot see a clyde caldwell or jeff easley art and not be inspired...
playing 2e now. THACO is difficult for some, but it was back in the day. When I played it originally. Having fun with it today. I find it to be bloat minimal compared to later editions. Just keep gaming all, even if math scares you. 😃
I remember being excited about THAC0. Wait I don’t have to rewrite my matrix every time my attack level changes? I just write one number? Sign me up! lol. I’d play it now if I had the group that was into it. Probably just a solo game for me, at least for a while.
Controversial opinion: The "splatbook bloat" is what, to many 2E enjoyers, makes it the superior edition. Yes, I said it.
The brown books, while not perfect, were great. Kits are bad ass. They add a lot of flavor and make it so not every player's PC is the same. One player's fighter is not like another player's fighter. They also added a lot of new proficiencies and skills that are very useful. Anyone who dumps on the brown books obviously misses the entire point.
Add to that all the awesome setting materials and a DM has so many tools than any other edition I can imagine.
Aa for devils and demons names being changed to baatezu and tanar'ri we explained it as the original terms being what mortals called them. The new names are what devils, demons and mortals like high level mages call them. Baatezu and Tanar'ri are their native names in the Hells and the Abyss. Why TSR did not explain it like this is beyond me.
2E is the best edition IMHO. 2E 4 life.
Anon, boy will you appreciate the video I’m dropping tonight. It goes into some detail on some of the very topics you are talking about. I have it scheduled for 4:00 PM CDT, and not only do I reference the brown books (which I have the whole collection), but also the settings as two of the 5 strengths of AD&D 2e. I agree with your comments, but I also felt like I needed to address the common misconception about some of these. When I talked about varying quality, I think there were likely books for everyone, but I’d also be surprised if anyone liked all of them. For me the Chronomancer’s handbook and some of the adventures were misses for me, but largely the setting and regional boxes and the PHBR series are big hits!
Awesome. 👍👍👍
I still have those.
Nice.
I was surprised (shocked, really) to see that there no Dark Sun books in your sample stacks, but I was glad to hear that you were on the Dark Sun stuff for your group. We never had any problem with THACO at all, it was literally never an issue, so all the blah-blah wah-wah about THACO has never really made sense to me. We never had a problem with the matrix either, and, weirdly, THACO actually felt like an improvement. Setting-wise, 2E was all Dark Sun all the time for us, man. Dark Sun was amazing. It was just what we wanted at that time, having played the High Fantasy stuff for long enough. You should do a full video, or a series of vids on Dark Sun. That Brom artwork alone would look great in the thumbnails.
Thanks for posting this, man. Good stuff.
DeeBee. I plan on doing a Dark Sun video in the future. I have the Dark Sun boxed set, as well as a softback reprint of it (for rough use), and a reprint copy of the gladiators handbook, and a spiral bound print of the monstrous appendix. So, I do indeed enjoy Dark Sun. My one beef with it, is that the Psionics system for 2e never felt right. I understand wanting to do something different than the magic system, but it just felt too mechanical to me. When reading the Prism Pentad, I felt like that version of psionics was not what I got on the table. That said, if you just have wild talents it probably is better than I remembered. I loved the setting, the power boost, the races, the class changes, the magic system, the monsters, the breakable weapons… just not the psionics. That was why I converted Dark Sun to Savage Worlds, specifically because it could handle the psionics better. I will do a Dark Sun video though! Since you are an enthusiast, what is your favorite Dark Sun race? Mine is Mul, followed closely by Half Giant.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh, Mul for sure. Don't laugh, but I also really dig the elf in Dark Sun. My favourite character that I played was a human though - my version of Mad Max meets John Carter, and he managed to survive, so, I live! The Psionics were a bit much. Dude, I would love to see your Savage worlds conversion. Are you going to do a video on kit bashing?
@@deeebeee1758 DeeBee, totally get the elf love. These are not your dad’s elves. Tall desert savages… after reading Rikus’ story, I just loved the whole Mul concept.
I don’t know if anyone besides you and me would be interested in my conversion. I tell you what, I’ll do a poll and if it is shut down, I will share it with you (for your own enjoyment), if it is popular I will do a full video. Fair? Not this week though, as I need to get WWON video for May done!
@@booksbricksandboards783 Sounds good to me. I feel like a lot of old punks like myself might find the Dark Sun conversion of great interest. Take care, man.
I had a good time doing it, so you could be right! Might surprise me. 😉 always enjoy your contributions to the comments buddy!
i play in 2 x 2e games weekly , love this edition .
Grym, consider me EXTREMELY jealous! I would be elated to find a one shot 2e game to play with a group, so 2 a week seems like a dream.
What were the two Forgotten Realms box sets? I have the 2e and 1e one. Ill have to.add the 2nd box set to my list.
So the one was the box with the wizard that is in the video. The second is the “gold” box with the horseman from the first edition box on the cover. The one in my video is the newer.
@booksbricksandboards783 OH OK awesome! Thank you for the response.
No problem. I believe that the gold box and the one I have now have ALOT of the same material.
The only thing 2nd edition was really missing in my opinion is that it needed skills. I also liked that monster damage was kinda arbitrary in that it was usually directly tied to an attribute as it has been since 2nd edition. A final note that I enjoy about 5th edition is that it takes a note from 2nd where it magic items aren't just everywhere or can be created easily and are more like relics from ages past. 3rd ed turned magic items into a sorta Santa's workshop type thing and even worse it made no room for low magic games as far as CR for encounters went, no you were intended to have X amount of magic festooned about your person by each level so that you glowed brightly when detect magic was cast.
So when you say it needed skills, do you mean a different system than the Non Weapon Proficiency system? That is what I think most would refer to as a skills system, but might not be the way you prefer it be done (which is a common complaint about NWP system). I think regarding magical items, there is a large variance between campaigns and DM’s. I do think that 3rd edition relied upon magic items to make up for inherently weaker classes at higher levels, but to some degree it is always the case that a high level fighter is only going to be as good as his gear, while a high level caster is going to be a terror no matter the equipment.
AD&D 2e is what I run today. Being an organizational improvement over AD&D 1e while remaining 99% compatible with older material that I enjoy makes it an all too appealing choice for me. (I know my comment isn't adding anything new to your fair and comprehensive coverage of the game, but perhaps it will help the algorithm be a bit kinder to your channel that deserves an even wider viewership.) Congratulations on the milestone.
Cheers!
Fred, you have an excellent taste in games and I certainly appreciate your taste in channels! Thanks for adding to the conversation. Out of curiosity, of the TSR settings, is there any you like more than another?
2ND edition and BECMI are my faves cause I started with them, there are some things in 1st edition i like, but over all I don't like the books of 1st lol
I enjoy reading Gary’s particular style of writing, which is one reason I enjoy Hyperborea as well (Talanian is the closest modern author to Gygaxian prose). That said, to play from that is a chore to be charitable. Some great half completed thoughts and ideas. First edition rules are like rungs to a ladder, but it became eminently more usable when 2nd edition put rails with the rungs.
God, I'd forgotten about that dumb monster binder. Loved so much about that time, but not that thing.
Jay, we all had that monstrosity… and every one of us had torn sheets. Then the appendices for the different settings being loose inserts just sucked when we all converted to the book. PDF’s of those are a big upgrade. I printed some out and spiral bound them.
@@booksbricksandboards783 They liked getting creative with their products back then. Sometimes it worked, I still have my Dark Suns books, and sometimes it missed. The first reprint of Ravenloft for AD&d 2nd ed had a lot of stuff with it, but it wasn't great.
I have just one question: what are the rules for searching for secret and concealed doors if you’re not an elf or half-elf?
Page 176 of the revised DMG states that in order to find a secret door, a character must intentionally search the area, a 20’ section of wall taking ten minutes. If they search the correct area they automatically find it. Elves and Half-Elves detect secret doors is a random roll that happens passively, not something that they need to dedicate their attention to.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Searching for concealed doors reveals them, not secret doors. Consider this statement from page 176,
“In very rare cases, the character may discover that the secret door exists (by finding its outline, for example) but not know how to open it. In this case, a separate check must be made to open the door.”
A separate check from what? What kind of check first has to be made to then make a check to open the door?
I see your point the language is confusing, but I would say this… concealed doors are what I would traditionally call a “Secret Door”. I believe what they are calling a “Secret Door” is calling back to the fantasy fiction trope of “you must stand at the highest rock when the full moon’s light shines to reveal the location of this door…” kind of thing. They were encouraging puzzle creation, and imply that there may be other steps the DM would ask you to take to discover the door…(ie sing the special song, solve the riddle, etc etc). The separate check to open just implies that, just because you found it, does not mean that it opens for you 😀… oh and if you fail the lock pick check you can’t come back for another level! The wording isn’t perfect by any means, but I think for the audience it was aimed at, that were custom ruling half of the game in AD&D, this was more clear than to a modern eye.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I appreciate what you’re trying to do here, but the real answer is that finding a secret door is accomplished by rolling a 1 on a 1d6, unless you’re an elf or half half, then it’s a 1 or a 2. We know this because that’s what 1e AD&D clearly states. Or, you can follow the DM Miscellany rule and do a wisdom (roll under) check. TSR admitted to this oversight in a Sage Advice article, but never corrected the missing rule in any revisions and reprints of 2e. My entire point is that while I agree that 2e is a gem (I’m running a campaign with it right now) it is not without its warts and problems.
@@red_wullf I’m really just trying to answer your question, no hidden agenda here😀. I have not read that Sage Advice column, but I do believe that the way the Revised DMG describes the “concealed door” process, it seems to be how most of the tables I played at would describe a “secret door”. In that case, it doesn’t seem like this is as confusing as you seem to be saying that it is, to me at least. Keep in mind there are often conflicting versions of what happened and why things were the way they were in the early days. For example I heard an interview on a podcast where a TSR designer during 2e said they wanted to do ascending AC in the early 80’s but were shut down by marketing because it would invalidate previous products. I’ve heard others from the same era talk about the issue as being much less a concern and more just, this is the way it is done and it’s fine. So, yeah, possible that they left that out as you said, but also, as written I see no issue with that rule and was easily able to figure out a logical way it works as written. I actually gave a list of 5 of the biggest complaints about 2nd edition in this video, so certainly didn’t intend to make it sound as if “it didn’t have its flaws”, and pretty sure from the comments I have gotten (here and by email), that most folks didn’t take it as I was saying that. Thanks for watching and the discussion.
Was wondering what Your Email is..? Thanks..
Booksbricksandboards@gmail.com . I put it at the beginning of the video intros so I don’t talk about it as much now. Sorry for the confusion!
@@booksbricksandboards783 Thank You
Welcome!
I hate the artwork of most 2nd Edition stuff. I should clarify, it was the inside color work from the player's handbook and DMG.
That is a pretty broad set of different styles… the original core books had Easley and Elmore stuff (for folks that dig the fantasy novel look), Dark Sun had the Brom classics, I believe Planescape was mainly DiTerlizzi, Ravenloft (at least the early stuff had a very Hammer horror vibe), etc etc… just a lot of different artists and styles for 2e.
I think its a black sheep because it only has one clone and that one doesn't capture the spirit.
The game itself requires some trial and error to support correctly. The options in the Fighters Handbook are practically required for the combat system to fully function if memory serves. The Priests handbook is the best splat handbook ever produced full stop. I've heard good things about Combat & Tactics but because it was late stage 2.5 and I was burned by the absolute mess that was Skills & Powers I never gave it a shot. Nowadays I'd run:
Original print core: accept no black covers, the current pdf, or any of the WotC reprints. They buried the best layout in D&D's history and proliferated the worst. The covers in the video are for the correct print.
Fighter priest and thief handbooks
Tome of Magic
Monsteous Manual + All the monster supplements you can find.
A proper clone would need to have these options to recreate the average 2e table (minus all the monsters).
I think I agree with a lot of what you say here… I don’t think the game is in any way unplayable without fighter handbook options. I would say combat is every bit as playable as 1e or BX without the fighter options. I also think all of the Player Option books are a mixed bag… they feel like a bunch of play test options that TSR never developed, giving a toolkit to build the game to your liking. The original prints and internal artwork therein is awesome. Also, do
think it would be very helpful if it had a better known retro clone, but what prevents that is the core game is so close to 1e mechanically, and the advantages are largely in the improved editing and layout… where it departs from 1e mechanically comes with the complete handbook series and other expansions. Just my opinions, appreciate hearing your own! Thanks for watching!
@@booksbricksandboards783 WARNING: Get your reading glasses on.
You can very much see the bones of 3E in those late stage 2.5 player's option books. Conversely you can see the 5E background inspiration from the initial four Complete Class Handbooks. There's actually a lot of changes from 1e, starting with being able to determine your target in melee combat if engaged with more than one enemy. Also training, weapon type vs armor, two alternate initiative sequences, Weapon speed and effectively segmented combat etc went "Optional" as opposed to "Required but often Ignored".
I skimmed Combat & Tactics this morning. If you're planning to use Minis on a Mat style play, it's pretty invaluable. The core is very loosey-goosey on combat rules, the tide was swaying toward Theater of the Mind. Considering it was released in late stage 2.5E AKA Min-Maxer's Delight, sandwiched between probably the least playtested books in the line, or at least the Skills & Powers book and compatible sections in Spells & Magic. Apparently there are also C&T sections in Spells & Magic, must remember to go back and give those a once over.
Let me rephrase - at the time the DM was considered the boss. So what those books were, inevitably, were argument starters. The books would let you customize your character to the nth degree, and when you were done twinking the character to hell and back with the character point system, the DM had to look it over and say "No, you can't give up Turn Undead to get Warrior HD and drip a couple useless spheres to get weapon specialization. Maybe do one of those but not both"
I think this was the beginning of the build craze in D&D, the origin of the principle that the books know more/better than the DM, even if they say the DM is the boss, it's a case of say one thing and do another. Essentially the DM and the game designer/company had a divorce, and while the DM remained an adult and wanted the best for the experience AKA raise the kid right and teach proper responsibility, the company realized player options were where the cash was at and wanted to sell out AKA be the "fun parent" who takes the kid to Chucky Cheese every other weekend and loads him up with half a gallon of sugar before returning him to the responsible parent. And to be fair, this worked for WotC when they took over as well. For a while.
A few things the AD&D2E retroclone would need, now that I'm not sitting outside a movie theater waiting for Deadpool & Wolverine to start:
Many optional rules. 2E was the first version of the game to have optional rules in the core, and the only one to have extensive optional rules (NWPs were optional like Feats are optional in 5E meaning not, but Encumbrance calculation and a multitude of other things are optional per the core, so much so they actually had blue sidebars denoting all of them)
In spite of what I just said, just make NWPs the baseline rule because I never sat at a table that it wasn't.
A separate chapter (or appendix) for kits, specifically aimed at boosting customization of core 4 (well, mostly Fighter and Thief)
A separate chapter (or appendix) for creating Priests of Specific Mythoi, which was something never replicated - a system to create specialty priests that didn't end with them being egregiously OP. Early 2E actually had some persistently decent design.
Turning all race/class restrictions into "suggestions" or "recommendations" because that's how they were perceived by players and DMs at the time. Ability score restrictions were expected to be upheld (so lots of people cheated to get that 17 Cha for a Paladin) but seemingly nobody cared if you wanted to play an Elf Paladin. Nobody really played humans all that often because of this, and only a few decades later did I found out why this was A Bad Thing (TM). You could always spot the newb in any 2E group, whoever was rocking a human character.
Anyway, thanks if you read this to the end
Gold & Glory is missing a handful of very popular optional rules and since 2e is modular and built on tons of optional rules it feels like the author’s opinion overrode the system’s actual design.
In multiple groups I played with in high school and college, basically everyone did individual initiative and about half did weapon speed. Both are 100% absent as options in For Gold & Glory. There were a few others which gave me pause.
So it’s not that it’s crap, but it’s incomplete and honestly feels worse organized than the original.
Honestly the worst aspect (which you alluded to but didn’t explicitly state) was that AD&D 2e was a bitch to learn from the books but simple to play/play with an experienced party/DM. Finding things was difficult. Lots of optional rules were pretty much “canon” (proficiencies?) and others were just there for 1e holdouts or even there but ignored (did anyone really use the brawling/wrestling/overbearing rules or did the DM always wing it?).
Honestly, I am going a slightly different route, building not a retro clone but a mostly compatible, “in the spirit of” OSR rules set. Really, I wanted to replace the PHB/DMG/MM in under 100 pages and eliminate legacy complexities while being 98% compatible with 2e accessories (splat books) and campaign settings.
1e was weirdly uneven and 3e, even though fixing a handful of the things in 1st & 2nd, wound up being too crunchy out of the box (it was infuriatingly slow especially in combat.
Anyway, great video and I agree.
@@pixelheresy appreciate it, and I am fully in on the 100 page 2e conversion… there is NO reason that is not possible. Would love to buy a copy from you when you get it done🫡
I think AD&D 2nd Edition is neither... as it does not belong into the cateogry OSR at all, in my opinion. I think the main feature of OSR ist not so much the O as in old, but the R as in rulings. While first edition AD&D had a much more elaborate rules set it still had very blank areas where rulings instead of rules were king. This area became smaller and smaller with the introduction of non-weapon proficiencies with oriental adventures, wildneress and dungeoneer survival guide.... while these books were considered optional, they became formalized incorporated into the rule set with 2nd edition. And in that regard 2nd edition is more an early version of the NSR.. the new school rules... that being said, it stands in the netherland between the old convoluted rules sets of earlier times and the streamlined much sleeker new area of third edition. That's at least how I feel about it.
Fair take, but most people forget that proficiencies were still “optional” in 2nd edition… we all used them because every supplement and module leaned on them, but in the core rules they are still presented as optional rules.
@@booksbricksandboards783 that's true... but I think most people used all the optional rules that increased the "under the belt things" and ignored anything that was not beneficial like encumbrance and weapon type vs. Armor type adjustments... as I said.. i feel 2nd edition hovers at a limbo... marking a turning point just prior to sleek wotc d&d ... it was still organic but already on the fringe of detailed simulation
For me, TSR era D&D is old school, as from a core rules standpoint, without optional rules, it effectively plays the same as AD&D, but better organized. Basic D&D, AD&D and 2nd Edition are all VERY compatible by design, so I would place them all in the old school category. WOTC D&D plays very differently than TSR era.
If you just use the core books and ignore all the splat, it’s a solid system. They should never have gotten rid of demons and devils though. Plus the whole reason this was released was to get Gary Gygax’s name off of the book. I’d still prefer 1e over 2e just because it is really simpler. I never liked N.W.P.’s.
I think the core rules set is excellent, as I think I mentioned in the video, but I do have more love for many of the splat books than most folks out there. Largely depends on what they are used for in my mind, munchkin metagaming? No thanks. But if something in a splat book actually helps a player realize a character they really want to play, I’m good with it. There was a second edition in the plans before Gary’s departure from TSR, he wrote about it in an issue of Dragon Magazine. That said, Gary’s ideas largely didn’t make the new edition, and there was definitely an added reasoning of eliminating royalties to Gygax in the way they did to Arneson with AD&D… in both cases the authors ended suing and I believe making some money on the deal. I’m actually also in the minority on NWP. I know that the balance isn’t there, and they vary wildly in effectiveness, but we used them and I always enjoyed them.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I know a lot of folks used the NWP, it just doesn’t fit my style personally. I can see their uses though. I mostly run Castles & Crusades these days, which is the system Gary Gygax was using when he died and he even said it’s a spiritual 2nd edition to his AD&D. I definitely recommend checking it out. Imagine 1e, rules light, with modern mechanics.
Oh, yeah I have had C&C since the second printing. I actually got it when I wasn’t even playing because the Trolls were at Gen Con and that was the year Gary had died. They told the story of Gary’s participation in C&C and his endorsement. Thanks for sharing sir!
@@booksbricksandboards783 anytime!
No no no, 2e doesnt need or want the loser OSR ("LOSR"). Old school and new school can eat bulette dung, 2e is and always will be its own thing.
lol. Well I like the enthusiasm.