The King Who Knelt (Torrhen Stark) Explained Game of Thrones Lore
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- The King Who Knelt (Torrhen Stark) Explained A song of ice and fire/Game of Thrones/ House of the dragon Lore
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Torrhren Stark made the best decision that day. Aegon already wiped out three armies.
And he destroyed the greatest castle humanity ever seen
He was just a terrible strategist, he should’ve followed Dorne’s tactics. He should’ve known that the North was just as inhospitable as Dorne albeit just the polar opposite of a scorching desert. The cold snow storms would’ve rendered Aegon’s Air Superiority useless and his armies would’ve frozen to death should they have marched beyond the Neck or Moat Caitlin.
@@bryanperalta740 Unless it was in the Winter, dragons can still fly, and even in winter they can still fly. Queen Alysanne flew to the wall on Silverwing.
@@bryanperalta740Dude, Dorne is a desert with mountains. All they had do was hide and wait because no foreign could resist the heat or knew the kingdom’s secret places but the North is literally covered in forests. All Aegon would have to do is burn everything or maybe just their farms and fields and leave them to starve in the winter, which again wouldn’t happen in Dorne where winters are the most mild and they probably still grow crops in fertile areas.
@@bryanperalta740Torrhren was already marching while he believed that Aegon was weakened by the division in his illy acquired army, but when he saw the combined force of all his conquered lands and 3 dragons at the helm, he knew that he couldn’t simply retreat. It was either attack and die, or retreat and die. So he picked the third option.
Sacrificed his reputation to save his people
How very stark of him
Also Tragic end for his Daughter when Married Lord Ronell Arryn. Both get trow to the Moondoor by Ronnel brother Jonos Arryn.
I like to think the name is endearing rather than shameful… Aegon literally wiped out three armies and the biggest castle Westeros had ever seen before coming to the North. There was no way he would have won, so he saved his people
@@thajo5123exactly. the north always had their vast cold lands' natural defenses, and they had moat cailin. an army of 30k would have held out against the entire south there. but dragons can attack from behind.
Many years later he was remembered fondly by the northman, tho. As an exemple of caring about your people more than your ego
The King who Knelt.. aka
The smartest man in Westeros.
The Martells were the smartest
@@Matt-qp8ztHell yeah, they defeated a dragon! Who else can boast about that? no one in Westeros I'm sure!
@@johngaelnox5447 no one else in the world
@@jeremyschneider6451there have been dragon slayers. heck, an unruly mob killed about half a dozen dragons. ser serwyn of the mirror shield.
@@johngaelnox5447the people of Kings landing slayed 3 dragons in one night💀
it’s funny how the whole north reacts by calling him a coward and a weak clown but he did all that so selflessly for them knowing damn well he’d b mocked for it
No one calls him like that
@@user-pw6vn7qj8u have you not read the books a lot of northerners still mock the Starks till the modern day especially the Bolton’s
Had he gone through with the attack, many of these fools would not be around to make fun of anything, because their ancestors would never have been conceived and born, lol.
I dont think hes a coward. Hes just smart
@@user-pw6vn7qj8uIt’s one of the greatest reasons the Boltons have any sort of legitimacy in the North. It makes the Starla look weaker than the men who wear Stak skins.
Yo, his brother is badass for wanting to sneak over try to single handily kill THREE dragons, one of which being Balerion 😬
His bastard brother is the biggest Idiot of that group lol😂🤣
The dragon is an animal and can be killed, why not?
@@targonyt7258 Yeah??😂🤣. I guess U haven't read the Books??😂..
Dragons are Animals, Yes. But they are a Pure and Potent from of very powerful Valyrian Magic and not to mention they are Massive, Winged, Fire Breathing Monsters with Monstrous scales with high Senses and Intelligence and also the most Ferrous U can get on a Living being lol...😂😂
Also I forget to mention, a Full grown Dragon's scale is known to be invulnerable to any and every manmade weapon of that time, also Balerion's scales are known to be stronger than steel itself, as he himself is the largest and biggest that his shadow alone could overcast an entire town...
@@targonyt7258 Balerion can not be killed even scorpion can not not to mention if they did attacked other 2 balerion would aware of it and wiped out all of them so it would be a stupid move for Northerners and to remind you dragons cant be easly killed as you saw in the GOT show
@@tariizm1500 actually, they can be killed if you shoot the in the eyes. The problem is that there were 3 dragons xd. Even if you get to killed one of them the sound would awake the others
Bro came all the way from the north (the war was over), looked around, saw everyone else had been essentially blitzkrieg’d out of existence and was like yeah nah I’ll just pay a bit of tax every year thank you very much
"And at the very least I'll be Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North"
Some say that he should have done the same as Dorn (retreat and ambush) but the army was already face to face with the dragons
And more importantly they didn't had balistas
There is a theory which I like to believe that the real reason Tohren bowed was because Aegon told him about his dream. The Starks were the only family left that still believed in the long night. Creating a pact between the north and the Targaryens is necessary to combat the 'Others'
Another believer of this theory here,that is true,didn't they had conversation just 2 of them after Tohren bent,Aegon told him about his dream.EDIT:Targaryens and Starks were close allies for all this time,'till Aerys ll
Yea the starks had a sword called ice b4 they were given the long sword ice Ned carries. Probably was a white walkers sword of actual ice. So both houses knowing what happens came to an agreement.
Wow that's genius, it makes so much sense. Crazy what you come across in the comments section, I love that theory
There has always been attempts to join House Stark and House Targaryen
@@kieransmyth3089 How cool would it be if ICE is made from actual ice,from far of the north,beyond the Wall
Out of all the kings in asoiaf he is easily one of the most respectable ones.
Damn you starks and your honor
Fun fact: In Bran's last chapter, he has visions of the past using the Godswood in Winterfell, and can actually see Brandon Snow with his weirwood arrows!
Gotta love the attention to details
That's very interesting. I really wonder if those arrows would of had any effect against the dragons
@@ThaYoungChad magical arrows kill magical dragons, George Martin probably read the hobbit
Listen, he never lost a battle nor a single man in war. Better than everyone else at the time.
There’s a reason why no sword from the North was melted down to make the Iron Throne.
Wisest king in the history of the “seven” kingdoms
I mean, back then it was seven kingdoms 😂
@@lordbonney97796. No Dorne
Those some idiot Northerners were still in the opinion that Torrhen should not bend his his knees and make fun of him. Their houses wouldn't last to current time in the book if Torrhen stupidly attacked Aegon for some Northern pride, lol
It's the same thing stannies and renly were doing at the 5 kings war. They could each rule to one side of the kingdom, being king renly to the south, stannies east and rob north. Stannies and renly already said all that was to be said: a king has no allies, no friends, just those who had swore to fielty and their subjects
Well, that's a wrong arguement. Aegon defeated gardener-lannister army and yet no great house was "wiped out" other than gardeners.
@@ottovonbismarck7742
Yeah and Garderner were just stupidly having their whole family in the battle... .
I understand house Hoare having their whole family inside the most strong castle ever created but what kind of person takes their whole family to battle against fire breathing dragons?
@@WERTYUIO821King Darius of Persia brought his whole family with him to war and they were all captured after his first defeat by Alexander of Macedonia.
@@wiseguy01
If I am not wrong King Darius's family I the battle included his mother, wife and daughters?
That is not very unique, keeping the females away from sackable locations.
Meanwhile King Gardener, his sons, his grandsons, his brothers, cousins and his whole kin all died in one single battle. Martins made it ridiculous.
After house of the dragon it’s now been revealed that Torren stark didn’t kneel to save his house but rather cause Aegon explained the reason behind his conquest which was the white walkers.
Torren agreed to kneel to fight the real threat when it eventually arrives together.
soooo much better
Ehhh technically that is not canon lmao
Yeah the show is wrong. That’s not what happened.
@@adamricard9410 it was under GRRM's direction btw. Many things that didn't explain in the book will cover there.
the fact that aegon decided to conquer Westeros because of the white Walkers who were last seen 10k yrs ago, is a bit wierd. there is no indication to suggest that he or his sister's had prophetic dreams either. maybe daenys left some other dreams as well? but that seems to take away from his character imo. what I think is happening here is that grrm is trying to salvage D&D's long night fiasco by trying to give the storyline more depth than it was given.
Lets be honest here. If anyone of us were in the situation we'd do alot more to escape getting crispy by dragon. Alot of us would be know as the king who blew.
Well, Aegon being... Aegon, i see that as an absolute win. XD
Broo 🗿💀
😂😂😂😂
Imagine if Brandon Snow was allowed to attack and those arrows really killed the dragons.
Wanna bet on it for ur life ?and for cutting weirwood he'll get whole different curse
I'm not sure but i think he really did go , but came back unsuccessful because of security guards
no they wouldn't have😂😂
No, if anything, Grass is not super effective against Fire.
Joke aside, if regular size arrow, doubt it would do any significant damage, assuming no magical properties of the weirwood. The arrow must be big enough and hit the vulnerable spot of the dragon, like its eyes, that was how Dorne able to kill one of them.
@@Dikbeeg for your life? Waaay too intense about a made up story lol 🤡🤡🤡
Rumor has it, when Torrhren heard of Aagons dream he knew it was in reference to The Others. He did what was best for humanity
I do wonder if the weirwood arrow thing would’ve actually worked. Hopefully the books will pick up that storyline somehow.
In one of Brans Chapters, he has visions of events that have happened in front of the Weirwood tree in Winterfell throughout the centuries. He sees a man assumed to be Brandon Snow taking limbs off the tree and beginning to make arrows out of them. So I think there is definitely some importance to that if the books ever get finished
Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven had a weirwood bow, perhaps weirwood arrows. He even had an archer company that followed him north to the Wall
@@SantomPhRavens tooth.
Arrows made of weirwood?!? Aren't those trees holy to the northerners? Thought cutting them down and making arrows (or anything) out of them was sacrilege to them? It would be like slaughtering a cow in India!
Iam 100% sure the weirwood arrows can actually kill dragons martin is a Tolkien fan after all
Ah yes, Lord Thirty-thousand Savage Northmen, the fabled ancestor of Ser Twenty Goodmen.
Not to be out done by Lord 10 men and some climbing spikes
out-dragoned xD
I was looking for this comment 😂
The best artillery in that world
Bro crossed hundreds of miles with a force of bloodthirsty northmen and bent the knee
Bloodthirsty roast chicken
Then his descendant Jon went hundreds of miles with just several people to bang Dany.
They would have lost.. 3 dragons already beat 3 armies that day. Why make it a fourth
@@jessicaellison2573 Exactly... they don't listen
@@jessicaellison2573 exacly. There is no sense in throwing yourself into a battle There is little hope of winning. & throwing your people who look to you for protection & guidence into certain death. His Pride & honor mightve taken a blow but he did what any king should & put his people first. And There is no braver & more honorable thing todo then todo that knowing full Well people Will look down on you as a coward
When you are 14th century army and you meet a army with 3 apache attack helicopters with unlimited ammo a open field battle is going to be a bad day.
Hahahaha.
Best example of a great king, a king that serves his people and not for selfish interest or ego
The fact that it would let him keep his life and title as well didn't hurt
Torrhen Stark made the right choice. The Starks would have been wiped out if not for him and its likely the Boltons would have replaced them as Kings of the North.
Which is actually worse considering that they have a issue with sanity and flaying people alive. The Starks should have driven the house to extinction first chance they got. They didn’t and Ramsey Snow is the nuttiest one of the lot with a sadistic streak a mile wide. And if we are lucky in the books will be the last Bolton.
Lords of the north 😅
Boltons would have sent everyone to die from dragons' flame before running away.
Jon Snow would've made the same decision, given up his crown to save his people in fact he did to Daenerys
But in the end of season 7, Daenerys swore they would defeat the Night King together, Jon bended the knee because he fell in love, but then he lied to his people, possibly due to how Robb lost the North because he fell on love with Talisa and was then betrayed at the Red Wedding
Theres always a Brandon willing to go for the risk and danger of it all
I don’t think it had anything to do with the dragons or the conquerors army, thanks to house of dragons, we know that aegon knew of the coming long night…maybe torhen didn’t just surrender… maybe the pact of ice and fire goes back further than we think??
The starks probably would have been loyalists if aegon did tel them about it
@@hockeyethan15 the starks only turned on the Targaryen crown after the mad king?? As far as I can see they kept their word right up until the targaryens broke theirs??
@@hockeyethan15 I also believe the theory that the mad king wasn’t driven to madness by incest or power (maybe a factor😂) but the secret passed down from aegon.. he was shouting “burn them all” so the night king wouldn’t have an army!!?
I believe the whole reason bloodraven is so determined to keep the secret from bran about being able to actually interact with the past is that he may have been the one that caused the mad king to go mad. He might have found out the hard way that his "visions" were actually affecting the people he was seeing and caused the downfall of the targaryans and allowing the white walkers to come back south
As if the truth is the stark king knew he was nothing in the face of true power
“ I would rather be a wise coward than a dead fool. “
This is the perfect definition for this king. By doing this , he saved his population and generations later, house stark stood eye to eye in regal equality as the Targaryens
I think people are missing the Northmen's side here that for them death is better than bondage. Its not that they don't understand that they had no chance. Its rather that they genuinely would rather have been slaughtered on the battlefield having resisted tyrrany than be forced to bend the knee and live as cowards to a king they didnt choose. Its not something you have to agree with, certainly not a choice I would have made, I'm a big fan of living to fight another day, but it is also totally understandable.
Imagine if Brandon snow actually was able to slay the dragons at moat cailin....it would mean the extinction of house Targaryen. These arrogant targaryens would have been brought back to earth and made to realize the power of westeros. It would have been awesome #fuckthetargaryens
The Smartest Stark in History.
I actually just read up on that I really hope they do another spinoff about the starks
Ironic how the Starks knelt and later ended the Targaryens at the Trident
Starks didnt another Targaryen branch family Baratheons did
@@tariizm1500 yeah but Ned rose in rebellion alongside Robert. He called the North to rebel.
@@muhammadibrahimsiddiqui6560 it doesnt matter Riverlands and the Vale rebelled as well but end of the day it was Robert who killed Rhaegar btw Targaryens could won they were far superior but bcz of Rhaegar's stupidity they lost
@@tariizm1500Rhaegar's army may have been 40000 strong while Robert's was 35 000 strong. But Robert's army was wholly loyal and committed. And more battle tested from previous battles. Besides. Once Robert killed Rhaegar. Leadership crumbled. "Cut off the head and the body will wither."
@@tariizm1500without ned stark , Robert would have lost the battle, ned was a great commander and warrior
Even without huge army it would be insane to fight someone who have 3 huge dragons. I still don't understand why did so many people rebelled against the targs while they still had dragons. Like what do you expect? That they will not use them ? 😄
Nobody “rebelled” against them. Aegon conquered Westeros. They were all their own kingdoms and Aegon had no right to any of it. Aegon decided he would be the one king and then made it happen. In that light you have to respect and understand why these kings and lords wanted to protect their own lands and way of life rather than just go with the flow. Also Westeros had never seen the devastation that dragons could bring until the conquest.
@@adamricard9410
To be fair later on, many did rebel.
Sounds like he saved 30,000 lives
more than that saved the cities of the north and the enemy troops aswell.
The definition of a stark leader. He actually made the right choice people may hate submitting to their opponents but if it actually saves more lives then taking then it's the right choice to do
Smartest Stark
Theres a theory that he actually knelt not due to fear of losing in battle but because Aegon told him of his dreams of saving the world from the white walkers and Torrhen believed they would have a better chance of defeating the true enemy in the north together
Almost poetic how the house that bent the knee (the show at least) reclaimed their independence and the house they bent the knee to was destroyed
It wasn't poetic it was a stark fanfiction. Asoif is a Targaryen story l, GRRM delayed wow to write fire and blood which is how we got HotD. Which stated 172 years before Daenerys Targaryen! Even though Jon was born the same year 😂😂
Torrhren left his ego and took logic and love instead to the battle.
Out-dragoned is always a bad spot to be in
I always imagined dragons in that world being the equivalent of nuclear weapons or modern fighter jets/bombers.
Sometimes as a leader you have to pick the easy choice or the right choice, and in this case he choose the right choice cause its not fucking Easy to kneel when you are leading a lot of man that expect greatness from you
He said "they got fu**ing dragons!"
The smartest Stark.I wish Ned and Robb were like him too.If it wasnt for Sansa and Arya their house was gone.
That’s literally why Ned confessed to Geoffrey before being executed…
Geoffrey just had even less honor than Aegon
Honestly, that was the best option he has, all other options had very low chances to impossible chances of success, and the consequences for failure, was the destruction of his house, not worth trying.
Maybe he thought of the White walkers and saw that Aegon's united force and dragons are a good counter to the Dead North of the wall
This mirrors Jon Snow & Dany in many ways as Jon bent a knee as well (after being named King of the North). Jon knew the real danger was to the North & Aegon supposed had prophetic dreams too (his whole campaign was to unite Westeros)… I feel as if GRRM has left this open to add in a lot of info… If only GRRM could get into his writing groove & pump out some books!!!
tying everything to the walkers seems to deduct from the story's political spiderweb rather than add to it. it creates a good side and a bad side. I would rather have aegon remain the ambitious young man who had a vision of a united Westeros ruled by the targaryens, and was ready to kill for it. morally grey, but doing good at the end of the day by reducing overall bloodshed.
weirwood arrows! that did not cross my mind!
He knew the jig was up. He truly loved his house and the ppl of the north. He knew full well if he did not kneel…all of house Stark is dead that day …so he knelt. Smart and a mighty leader
I love the theory that he bent the knee because of the prophecy of Ice & Fire. The only two houses that took shit seriously was the Starks & Targaryens. It may have just been not wanting his people to burn however I like to think it was more
And that is when "Things go south" had become a phrase.
i think that when he met with aegon, the conqueror told him his dream and that’s part of the reason torren knelt
A good king thinks of himself and what more can be gained
A great king thinks of his people and the consequences of his actions
Fun fact: At the same place at the River Trident where Torrhen knelt to Aegon, they later build an inn called "The Inn of the kneeling man."
Sometimes a leader has to take the L for his people, even if they don’t appreciate it.
Ruling because of a feeling of responsibility rather than pride is what makes the best leaders imo.
If this part of the book get set up for the series it will be epic for many decades to come maybe as same as friends
a true king puts his people before his reputation and ego ,a alpha wolf knows when to attack ,when not to attack ,when to retreat and when to negotiate for the sake of his pack
Only in a George R. R. Martin story can you casually say “Aegon, along with his sister-wives” AHAHAH
That's what makes a great King according to Tywin: wisedom
House stark seems too perfect
Idk about perfect but they are certainly one of the most honorable of the great Houses.
Wise decision. Saved his people
I think Jon Snow was thinking about this when he bent the knee. They both realised it is better to give up your crown and save your people. But when I think about it, by the time Jon did it, I think it didn't matter to Dany that much anymore because she was so much in love in with him, and also a little bit of scared when she saw his scars and when she learned what a man is he, she wasn't sure if she was worth him
Torrhren Stark was just smart and had common sense. He choose his people over some concept of valor or pride
Come to think of this scenario ,
Starks knows already that there is Dragons and massive army yet they still reach The Trident ,
What if Torrhen and Aegon talk man to man
And to avoid bloodshed ,
Aegon told Torrhen the Song of Ice & Fire
That aligned with “The Winter is Coming”
Sigil of Starks ,
For greater good , Torrhen knelt for Humanity and work with Targargen and wait til the Winter comes
He did what he had to ensure that those who called him king would live. Even if it meant being labeled a coward. He knew they had no chance and can anyone really blame him. Aegon slaughtered two entire houses and made the prideful Lannisters bend the knee along with destroying 3 armies. Who wouldn't bend the knee after seeing or hearing about that shit?
He was literally the only good leader of the time that put the well being of his people before his ego.
he didnt just bend the knee. It was a long ass discussion and negotiation between Aegon I and Torrhen.
Although a wise decision, if he just kept out the North might have not been part of the seven kingdoms. Since the north was as large as the other 6 combined. With their harsh winter and cold summers foot soldiers would be pretty useless against the Kingdom. And perhaps Aegon would have seen it too hard to be useful.
According to the TV series, they reigned in the North once again only a couple hundred years later
and bcz of that ending of TV was stupid
Torrhen didnt bent the knee because of that. In Hotd s2 cregan and jacaerys literally talks abt this where jacaerys says torrhen also believed in smthing aegon did.
Go beyond the wall, dragons dared not cross it and become wildlings :p
There is a time for all things.
A time to plan.
A time for a new strategy.
A time to decide.
A time to cheat.
A time to bravely go forth.
A time to retreat.
A time to die.
A time to sacrifice.
A time to morn.
A time to bend the knee.
Makes you wish that maybe Ned could have been a little smarter.
Brandon snow= Skyrim stealth archer
Torrhren Stark: The smart wolf 🐺 and The King that didn't burn!!
doesn’t matter if he was ridiculed, he made a smart decision and protected his people
If you haven't already (still flipping through), please tell the story of Saera Targaryen.
I reallyyy want a series on Aegon’s conquest
Brandon Snow might have something in his plan. Wierwood trees?
People clown Torrhen for bending the knee, but Torrhen had the heart of a real noble king, Aegon is the arrogant tyrant that will destroy anything that doesnt bow to him, Torrhen is the wise protector that will do anything to protect the people he loves. House Stark >>>>>>> House Targaryen 🐺❤
The one king that cared more about his people than his own pride
Tohren the Clever
Bro literally said nope,I choose not to be exterminated 😂😊
Outdragoned 😂
Wise man.
And outdragoned 💀
A king who did not rule by his ego
If he had not bent the knee back then the targaryens would probably still be alive today lol
Smart man and now his descendants rule hahahah
I think there's much more to it than that,
Aegons Dragon Dreams for one.
Saving thousands of men, ending a war before even a single soldier is killed, just by giving up his pride. That's a real leader and a man more than worthy of ruling the north.
is there a separate book in which you can get these lore? or are they sporadically mentioned in the ASOIAF series?
Just like Jon Snow would do to save his people 300+ years later. The Prince from both Stark and Targaryen lines.
torrhen was the glaring example of why no one should have given Jon grief in the final seasons of the show. Yes, an independent north is a grand idea, but when an invading army from across the narrow sea brings dragons, you kneel. lol
Understandable
He made the right decision. He chose to save his people and retreat back home.
Because even if they succeed in killing the dragons it'll lead to years of brutal bloodshed between the Targaryens and Northerners. And the north would suffer most from it cus the war it's on their land the war would be fought.
Didn't he and Aegon have a private convo, before he bent the knee?
nope that is Stark fanboys' bullshit to justify bending the knee
I thought so. So Aegon may have told him his dream about the white walkers
I think Aegon told him about his visions.
Surrender is an outcome far worse than defeat - Prince Vegeta
The smartest King of them All...
Great king, put his people before his pride, saved many lives doing that, no doubt aegon would of burned most of the host of the north alive had they fought