Angmar Tier List - Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game | MESBG
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Angmar is the latest army to receive a deep dive at Into the West podcast. Join us as we break down all the profiles in the army.
This episode is sponsored by Mithril Brush, an online painting competition dedicated to Middle-earth. For more information on how you can enter or support this competition, visit / themithrilbrush & / mithrilbrush
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00:00 Introduction
00:49 The Witch-King of Angmar
03:11 The Dwimmerlaik
08:03 The Tainted
09:39 Gulavhar, the Terror of Arnor
12:46 Burdhur, Hill Troll Chieftain
16:20 Wild Warg Chieftain
19:11 Barrow Wight
22:58 Angmar Orc Captain
26:40 Angmar Orc Shaman
30:16 Shade
32:42 Cave Troll
35:44 Angmar Orc Warrior
38:20 Angmar Warg Rider
40:25 Wild Warg
43:09 Dead Marsh Spectre
47:46 Golfimbul, Orc Chieftain
54:05 Outro
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Credits:
Music: Tavern Loop One by Alexander Nakarada (www.serpentsoundstudios.com) Licensed under Creative Commons BY Attribution 4.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/... - Hry
You guys have to do a Moria tier list!
I agree with this guy, but only because I have been thinking about building a Moria Dragon list and I want to know how much I can expect to lose with it!
@@ryanhenderson225 quite alot but its a fun model ahah
Awesome video fellas, was ready to riot if Spectres wound up in Valour but you guys got there in the end with Legend! One thing not mentioned is they get around armies with resistant to magic and set up heroic combats for your big heroes or hurls into enemy mounted heroes. If they have fearless then you can compel so you always have tricks!
I had wild wag chieftain pulverizing through spirits vs the army of the dead. So in my opinion he is pretty beefy!
dwimmerlaik making you use 2 might and shade giving you minus 1 on the duel roll is really fun synergy
I've seen this happen in person and it's nuts. Such a dangerous combo if you're not ready for it.
Richard wasn't about to let Charles put the Spectre in Valour 😂😂
😅😅
Nice tier list
The Dwimmerlaik is the coolest wraith that never gets played and for me its mainly the fact he just loses every fight he is involved with so you can't rely on an investment in him.
He is obviously supposed to be a hero killer with his special rule but F5 with Two-handed penalty and no Might is just not competitive at all. Even if you just want him to spectate and provide the aura, you need him constantly standing in charge range and he is going to get got. For 120 he is being compared to a Witch-king with Crown and 5 stats or to The Tainted who has 2 Might, the same spellcasting and the ability to deadlock group heroic actions for the turn.
He needs his profile to be changed in one simple way to bump him up to the high B or even A tier - just make his weapon a Hand-and-a-half sword. Then you can stick him on a Fell Beast, choose to one-hand in combat to protect your investment and lean into his purpose to drain the M/W/F from an enemy to make them easier to clean up later.
Great Tier List. Orc Captain on Warg could be handy aswell. Do you have a List without Gulavhar for around 500-800 Pts?
I think if you sub Guluhvar with Burdur and a Cave troll it can work very similarly. At 800, you would still take the WK, barrow wight, barrow wight/orc captain.
One of my hot takes has already been given - Barrowwights are a touch over-rated - but my other one still applies: Dwimmerlaik is better than the Tainted. If for no other reason than because the Tainted is heavily dependent on circumstances that are either outside your control (gotta have priority for the Heroic Move cancelling to be that impactful) or downright contrary to what you want (need enemy heroes to still be alive and active for the Standfast cancel to matter, when Angmar is heavily designed for taking out or neutralizing opposing heroes/needing the Tainted to be in combat for the 6 up auto wound to come into play, but you don't really want him in combat and sometimes you specifically want the opponent still alive for a Heroic Combat). Dwimmerlaik synchronizes well with Angmar's lack of might overall by being an active might drain for the opposing heroes, plus makes it a lot harder for someone like the Witch King or Barrowwight to have their spells resisted if the Dwimmerlaik is draining off willpoints left and right (although I will say, wish his ability was a 3+ rather than 4+). That's just part of the positives for him imo.
Fell Beings of Mirkwood next please! I am trying to build a list for my first MESBG army and want tips.
That would be interesting to dive deeper into one specific legion... We know just the guest for that one too!
I think golfimbul should be at least C. He is a cheap strike and if you transfix the enemy the F3 Strike can be enough if the enemy is like F5-6.
Also he can get terror (the same with the captain).
I could see him on smaller points with an barrow wight and a Nazgul.
That’s fair enough, my thought was you’d take Golfimbul mostly as a Might caddie for heroic moves/combats. To use as a heroic striker against transfixed targets can work but it’s less reliable than throwing WK/Gulavhar/Burdhur at the target.
-Charles
Very interesting. Any idea why the Dead Marsh spirit is in Angmar when the dead marsh is so far away ?
My guess is they needed an army to slot the profile in - the Barrow Downs is also too far from Angmar for Barrow Wights to make sense being in the list either.
-Charles
@@intothewestpodcast I thought they might be generic spirit/dead guys that the witch king could resurrect where ever he was. But I think the dead marsh guys should be in Mordor list, would make an interesting option. Cheers.
Great episode. I play Angmar as my main army and I more or less agree with your ranking.
Since Angmar is such a high skill/difficult army to play, I would love to watch an episode where you talk about tactics, lists, tips and tricks and the like for this army. It seems to me like it's way too fragile, lacks any good shooting/ranged options, any siege weapons, has low courage and no fury, and is starved of Might. Plus any hard hitters you might bring are easily killed from afar or CCed with a spell or ability. Gûlavhar, on top of being an arrow magnet, only has 4 courage (or less) and easily loses tests to being broken or god forbid sentinels. The Witch King (or any other ringwraith) suffers when the battle takes a long time since it keeps losing Will each time it fights (on top of any casting you make) and leaves when it doesn't have any Will remaining. I struggle to find any good match ups for this list. Sure it can pick off one hero if you play it right and spend resources but I find that it struggles to win fights and eventually win the game afterwards.
Anyways, any insight you might have would be awesome and I would welcome a deep dive on Angmar. Seems like a good army to delve deeper into
Great suggestion!
Not sure whether you’re just looking for video content, but I’ve written a lot about Angmar at this blog here:(againstalloddsmesbg.blogspot.com/2023/10/terror-tactics-tips-for-using-gulavhar.html). The article I’ve linked is a guide to using Gulavhar specifically, but it also has links to three tournament reports using Angmar in various formats and points levels (going undefeated twice, so there’s definitely lots of potential in the faction). I can also recommend the Now For Wrath blog for a different style of Angmar tournament reports. They’re a really powerful army once you wrap your head around them, and I recommend you stick with it for that moment when all the tricks come together.
In saying all that, I’d certainly be keen to watch an Angmar guide on this channel, there’s always a lot more to learn even about armies you know well
Love your work 😎
But is it as good as the Noobs list?? 😜😆
Can't beat the OGs
im not sure others are with there experience with Gûlavhar. i assume hes been amazing since you slot him in legendary. but for me he's always been lacking with what he does. his cost compared to other hard hitters while become weaker as he takes more wounds.
i must rather take the dwimmerlank with a felbeast due to his magic usage and still get similar results with the potential threat of my opponents using more might/will/fate then they useally would. and the felbeast is also a lot more durable.
The issue with Dwim on FB is that he is F5 and doesn't have Heroic Strike so he would need to get off a channel transfix against most big heroes, a regular transfix might not be enough.
Paired with some magic, Gully's raw power in fight value, strength and attacks, allow him to easily flash kill heroes. Plus the 3 might vs 0 gives a lot more pressure with the ability to heroic combat and charge 12" away in Fight Phase.
-Richard
I don't like the WK in angmar. I think that angmar's main strength is its ability to kill heroes, which Barrow wights + 2h orc warriors do best, qnd with the 12 slots to lead warriors you can just get more warriors than your opponent, and the WK just takes away warriors or Barrow wights
Now that's a hot take!!
I get what you're saying but at the same time it's the WK with crown... Plus the compel + Gully is a game changing move.
I only play 400-600 points so I guess I might just be at too low points to play that. At that level I just don't find he ever overshadows Burdur or the shade or barrow wights.
Hot take here: Barrow Wights are perhaps slightly overrated here. They’re amazing, but I would actually put them at the bottom of Legend. My reasoning is that Angmar lists can sometimes find themselves struggling in matchups where the opponent is relying on quality warriors to get the job done while their heroes just support. In those matchups a Barrow Wight doesn’t do a heap for you (Terror bubble aside), whereas your other anti-hero options like the WK and Gully can flex into smashing through warriors. So investing in multiple Barrow Wights can end up pigeon-holing your list into absolutely smashing hero-heavy builds, but with a weakness to warrior-focussed lists.
Moreover, if you respond to that risk by only fielding one Barrow Wight, then they become quite unreliable. They’ll occasionally just win you a game by Paralysing a key hero, but they’ll also have lots of games where they just fail their spells or just drain some resources. That’s fine, and they’re still amazing value, but I think there are Angmar builds that leave them at home for this reason. After a lot of playtesting at 650 (where you can realistically field WK+Gully+one other hero) I’ve ended up dropping the Wight for the mounted Orc Captain, because ultimately it was doing work for me in every game and I was already confident going into hero-heavy matchups with WK+Gully.
So, they’re great, and should be in legend, but I don’t think they actually fit into every list at every points value, and they can sometimes exacerbate the army’s weaknesses
That’s an interesting perspective on the Barrow Wight. I find in most situations you’ll have good targets for them to neutralize, if not big heroes then cavalry models, banners, etc. That said, I can see how they wouldn’t fit into every Angmar build, especially at lower points. Thanks for sharing!
-Charles
I kinda feel like getting more than 2 barrow wights is overdoing it, but having one or two should be the standard. If you get one barrow wight and his spells are being resisted that is going to cost quite some will of your opponent's heroes and that does mean the witch-king's spells are going to go through. But maybe the main difference is that I don't play with Gulavar (don't have the model) then you can really use some help against heroes.
If the main problem of Angmar is armies relying on quality troops does that mean mean the shade should be more valued?
The shade helps mitigate that weakness for sure, though at a hefty 100 points you’re going to have to trade something to have it in your list. We ranked the shade where we did to show it’s still very effective, but it’s a profile you have to somewhat build around.
Yeah, I find the Barrowwight's biggest value isn't so much Paralyze, but the THREAT of Paralyze, since it forces your opponent to save their will to try and resist that spell, giving your Nazgul much more free reign to cast at will. Past that, I agree, Barrowwights aren't really good for much else unfortunately; if they were 2 attack, that would be different, but just 1A/F3/S3, even with Blades of the Dead, isn't something to help with the troop-munching duty that Angmar heroes really need to fill to make the army work.
U forgot Golfimbul
Watch to the end :)
Oh😅
Wow another tier list/content creator that completely miss the boat on the Dwimmi
What's your experience been with dwimmerlaik? Happy to hear the other side of the argument.
-Richard