Why a Reliever Will Never Win Another Cy Young Award
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2022
- In baseball, relief pitchers often display the greatest velocity and most unhittable breaking balls. Every team has relievers throwing 100+ miles per hours, and the best teams require dominant closers to put away an opposing team in the final innings of a game. Is it possible in todays game for a reliever to win the Cy Young Award?
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There should be a different award for Relief pitchers. CY YOUNG for the best overall pitcher and another for Relief Pitchers. It is an unfair comparison, I agree, but Relief pitchers are just as important and deserve all the recognition attributed to them.
They have the Rolaids Reliever of the Year Award.
@@BishjamIC they discontinued it in 2012. But, Rolaids?
Something crisp like The Mariano Rivera award or something. Yes, but it was discontinued
@@BishjamIC they need to rebrand it and make it major league sponsored.
Oh, hmmm. They should have something for the best reliever.
@@BishjamIC it needs to be votes like Cy young. I remember Rolaids being statistically based
Relievers have reliever of the year, they just need to keep Cy young as Starters to keep everything fair for everyone. Allowing everyone to get the recognition they deserve
That’s an interesting idea. I wonder if reserving the Cy Young Award for starters only would increase the importance of the Reliever of the Year.
I was honestly surprised you didn't mention 2012 Fernando Rodney. But I guess he only finished in 5th in Cy Young voting. But that's the most dominant relief season I think I've ever seen.
thank you for mentioning Zach Britton being a baseball and oriole fan, was shocked he didn’t get more votes for Cy Young.
with the lowering of starter innings, more consideration has to go towards closers.
I think it was 2016, but yeah he should’ve won that year cause he was diff gravy
I think it’s possible. You need a modern record set for a prominent stat like total saves, as well as maybe something like WAR or ERA/ERA+.
You would need a down year for starters in the league in tandem. Which is doable. And you’d need a dialogue amongst the community (fans/writers) about that particular reliever and his Cy Young chances to drag on a bit and pull some writers consideration in to a more approachable position by seasons end. If it becomes a followed storyline, it’s possible that could in turn affect the vote.
Great video!
I don't know what kind of results you'd get, but I'll throw this out there: When MLB Network does the Top 10 Right Now for each position, they replace WAR for relievers with Win Probability Added. (For example, if the Win Probability was 97% when the pitcher entered and 99% when he left, he's credited with a WPA of .02.)
Given that it’s baseball writers that vote, it makes sense why Hader received no votes, probably based on his checkered past. But it’s still a shame that he received no votes whatsoever for one of the best season we’ve seen in decades from a closer
I also think HOF voting is way too harsh for relievers. Only a handful of guys are in as relievers and for some reason Wagner still isn’t in
Don't forget Sparky Lyle and Quiz as well for old school examples.
I think they are definitely too overlooked and deserve at least some consideration for it. Sadly, it probably won't ever happen again.
Nice editing
Appreciate it!
They need bring back the award for relief pitchers
Fernando Rodney’s 2012 season was historic and absolutely Cy young worth’s. He still finished 5th and even this video omitted that. That’s sad.
I still think it's criminal that Francisco Rodriguez didn't win the Cy Young in 2008 when he set the single season save record. A record that I think won't get broken maybe ever. Considering he's the only one to eclipse 60 in a single season.
The main reason why a reliever might never win the Cy Young again is because the role of relievers have changed and relievers only work one inning sometimes two. Back when Sparky Lyle won the Cy Young relief pitchers would work 4 sometimes 5 innings and would pick up 8 or 9 wins in a season if starters didn’t go 5 innings. In the days of specialty pitchers however a reliever has no shot at winning the Cy Young. Not saying it’ll never happen again but it would be very difficult.
If they're going to vote like this then it should be worded "most valuable pitcher" and not "best pitcher"
Definitely need to pitch a good bit more than 50 innings or at least have like 70-80+ appearances and be super dominant, way beyond what similar relievers are doing, and perhaps have done such as breaking a record or records.
There needs to be a Reliever Award AND a Closer Award.
What I meant upon starting the comments was not whether an award exists, but the level of respect attributed to the award. They have changed the name over the years and no one aims for it. It is just seen as an afterthought award. The fact that many people don't even know it exists is the problem, indicative of the awards joke status.
They need to rebrand it by properly giving pitchers the well-deserved recognition by announcing the Cy Young and The Reliever of the Year winner side by side and giving them incentives to want to win the award. When Eric Gagne won the Cy Young, he should have also been the reliever of the year. This indicates the awards joke status because there is no way the CY Young award winner of 2003 who was a reliever also not the best reliever of the year.
You gotta use ERA+ when comparing different times
plus Diaz has the timmy trumpets intor
Edwin Díaz should get it this year
There will be a super reliever at some point in baseball. Some dude who pitches every other game after the starter and closes out the game. Like 60-70 appearances and 150+ innings.
Baseball evolves, just look at the opening pitcher. A guy specifically to get the top of the order out so the starter faces the back of the lineup in his first couple innings. In theory this idea is brilliant as the first 3 or 4 batters are trying to make the pitcher rack up the pitches. In practice it sometimes worked, but was viewed as a failed experiment.
But just like how I see someone coming in an revolutionizing stealing bases, I think someone will appear that defines being a reliever. I believe it's only a matter of when at this point. I do understand that this way of thinking is heavily influenced by Ohtani. Ohtani is that 1 in a billion type talent, but I don't think he's the exception. Pitchers who can slug or field well could a staple of baseball at some point.
Imagine a left fielder who plays 100 games in the field and pitches as a reliever for like 50 innings. It's crazy how much potential for change baseball still has
I’ve always thought the role of closer (and the same statistic) was overrated. These WAR statistics seem to confirm that.
*save* statistic
Zack Britton should've won the 2016 AL Cy Young.
Brad lidge? He had 41 out of 41 save opportunities and like a 1.9 era
Clase is the best closer, and will be for some time. Britton not winning CYA was practically criminal.
this is why i dont like analytics, just ranking pitchers by WAR and thats the end of it. when it comes to "best" or "MVP", it takes many stats to consider, also taking into consideration team circumstances. it feels like analytics fans dont even watch the game
Ignoring analytics completely is also not the way to go either, of course. The idea is to find a nice balance between the two approaches.
Why can’t they be like the nfl and have a offensive player of the year it can give credit to more people like when cooper cupp should have one mvp but we weren’t mad cuz he won offensive player of the year do it for the best relief pitcher in each league that way they can have a cy young type award I would call it the mariano rivera award and it would go to the best closer/ relief in each league
Only silver lining of the 2005 AL Cy Young voting is that it adds to the legacy of a certain sex icon.
Here's a factor which neither you nor the comment section considered.
I presume that a big reason that it would be hard to consider a reliever for CYA is low total inning count, one subsequent result being low WAR accumulation
My point?
Jacob deGrom in 2021 prior to the injury that wiped out the rest of his season.
JdG did finish 9th in the voting which, in itself, is amazing
Even more amazing is that he pitched only 92 innings
But the real stunner, I mean it's obvious but extremely relevant compared to relievers
ZERO saves... in zero chances
His numbers were undeniably... can't even find an adequate superlative
He was heading towards possibly the GREATEST SEASON EVER for a pitcher in MLB history
aERA+/ERA/IP/H/BB/SO/FIP/WAR
373/1.08/92/40/11/146/1.24/4.4
Look at that adjusted ERA+
For some important context, consider Bob Gibson with his single season ERA standard of 1.12 albeit during the deadball era of 1968
However, despite that incredible 1968 Gibson season, his adjusted ERA+ was 258
Compare to JdG in 2021: 373!
So here's my relevant question:
Back in the day when a reliever winning it was even possible, could JdG have won a CYA with his 2021 stats ?
My initial answer is no, because the SAVE stat was way way way overvalued back then
Never forget: Steve Bedrosian
He rlly be calling out kimbrel😂
Do you think also the one hit wonder thing comes into play? Many relievers are short term in the limelight. Eric Gagne was here and gone in a very short time. When he won, he also had a very similar and dominant type season the year before as well. Most of the names mentioned here make an appearance at the top then disappear into or go back to average or less than average after that one season memory and are relevant mostly to just their teams fans. To this point, also consider the one hit wonder 1976 season of Mark Fydrich who may have had slightly better numbers but lost out to Jim Palmer. I think voters tend to favor that career, service and longevity deserves a degree of acknowledgement, perhaps also to protect and preserve the sanctity of the award.
It’s an award named after Cy Young one of the best starting pitchers in history so they should have a separate category for relief pitchers
They kind of did with awards named after Mo and Hoffman.
@@iamhungey12345 then please tell me the point of this video?
@@Yesterdave69 Explaining why relievers may never win a Cy Young award again? The title said it all.
It may still happen though, remember there will be a time when the competition for the award will be complete ass which can make it wide open, for example 1987 NL Cy Young award.
Even for a reliever the truth is Steve Bedrosian had no business winning the award.
don't see why not, since most starters barely pitch much more innings than closers these days.
You forgot Ryan Helsley
How the heck did Willie Hernandez win the Cy Young, let alone the MVP
1:53 Eric Gagne always had the most fucked up cap ever 🤣no cap
They’re not supposed to in the first place
Are you serious? There are only like five true starting pitchers even left in baseball anymore. They’re all relievers nowadays. Burnes and Ray didn’t even pitch 200 innings last year. 😂
Wanna bet ?
The fact that Gagne, a juicer won the Cy Young and not Mariano Rivera is a travesty
Why can't a reliever throw 100 innings? That doesn't sound like much.
Relief pitchers don't deserve the Cy Young. No reliever deserve Starter money. It's insane Diaz is projected to get $20M AAV when he pitches nearly 1/4th the amount of innings starters pitch. Over rated pitchers.
😂 no, disagree completely considering that the entirety of staffs are living in the bullpensv
As far as I'm concerned, guys that throw 1/3 as many innings as the top aces should not be considered for the Cy Young. Starting pitchers need to face the opposing lineup multiple times per game. They need to conserve their energy to go 5-7 innings, they can't just go max effort for every pitch like a closer can. Putting up gaudy strikeout and run prevention numbers is "easier" for a reliever because they can give maximum effort at all times. Guys like Eric Gagne and Rivera were below average starting pitchers who became elite when they moved to the bullpen, which illustrates that starting is much harder.
Closers come on with the game on the line, and enter in MUCH more stressful situations. They often come on with runners already on base. Being a closer isn’t easier, there’s a reason the position exists.
Starters and relief pitches are all important.
@@avenger4cats72 Kenley Jansen and Craig Kimbrel are the highest paid closers at $16 million per year. Max Scherzer is the highest paid starter at $43 million per year. There are 23 starting pitchers making more money per year than the highest paid closers. If closers were really as valuable as starting pitchers, they would be getting paid like it.
@@Il_Exile_lI They pitch less so makes sense they are paid less. Do relief or closing pitchers have less value? I suppose somewhat, an ace starter is always better because they go more innings. But having an ace closer is also an extremely valuable thing too.
CY young should be for starters and they should start giving the relievers awards out with more meaning. There are some closers though who have been that good that they deserve the CY young.
Sure a starting pitcher (a good one, that is) has more overall value than a good closing pitcher. That is generally true yes.
But acting like closers aren’t worth anything, especially Rivera, that’s so far from true.
Also there are relief/closers who sucked as relievers and switched to starting pitchers and did way better, and vice versa. So that point doesn’t matter, some guys just don’t have the arm to throw a full game. Some guys prefer to come in during stressful situations and pitch better when the game is on the line. If you brought a starting pitcher in during the 9th inning with the bases loaded and only a 1 run lead they would probably have a melt down. That’s too much stress, something good closers thrive in.
@@avenger4cats72 Plus the notion of Rivera being a failed starter is a bit misleading when one notes how his only shot as a starter was in his rookie season. Whether or not he would have become a good starting pitcher is a question that will never be answered but the fact is he was never given another shot afterward and that was before his most famous pitch was had as well.
Easy answer....Each league has an answer for relievers. Not sure why you need to make a video for such a quick answer
Diaz cant win it with that rotation. he isn't the best pitcher on his own team
It's stupid 2 want a closer to win an award that pitchers who pitch 30 plus games a year should be awarded
It’s actually not dumb
@@greenfroppy212 Especially when there are times the competition will become ass, like 1987 NL Cy Young.
theres no such thing as traditional starters and closers anymore already.
I don't think you understand baseball mr whispers.
Great video!
Thanks for watching!