Q&A #2 - Existential uncertainty, real thoughts, and my children.
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Check out the first Q&A video here: • Q&A #1 - OCD at work, ...
My Mental Fitness 101 course is now live. For a limited time, you can get 35% off by signing up with this link: brainschool.mar...
For being social...
Instagram: / markwfreeman
Twitter: / thepathtochange
Facebook: www.facebook.c...
Tumblr: / everybodyhasabrain
You can contact me through my website: www.markfreeman.ca
I think one of the most important, if not the most important insight for OCD, is to throw the concept of 100% certainty out of the window, as there is none. Except maybe „I only know that I know nothing“ and „I think therefore I am“ and even those are philosophically debatable. Honestly every insight that humanity has generated can be philosophically doubted from countless angles. Very typical to Pure-O OCD is the idea that your OCD thoughts would stop if one reaches 100% certainty regarding a specific issue. Oftentimes the OCD brain tells you that „if you only solve this one profound thought in your head, or find 100% proof then OCD is over“. Trust me this is not the case! Even if you manage to solve this thought for yourself, your OCD-brain will create another thought that will be even more difficult to solve, and so on and so on until you will reach a dead end. Even if your OCD-brain tells you to achieve 100% certainty in „only this one last thought“, it is a trap! There will always be this „one more thought!“ to solve! Your brain creates obsessive thoughts with increasing difficulty, for you to create more and more (and more elaborate) compulsions in order to solve these thoughts . Your OCD-brain creates these intrusive thoughts because it is addicted to compulsions.
Yeah, it's useful to cut out these compulsions to chase certainty.
This comment alone is helping me to get a grip on my racing mind. Thank you
This is spot on!! thank you!
Thanks for the reminder
I feel like I’m becoming delusional questioning the reality of everything especially myself. My biggest fear is becoming delusional. And every time I think of it the thought “is this even real” pops up.
Reacting to that fear to check and control it will just encourage the brain to look for more and more things to check and control. It works like any addiction: chase the high of certainty that something is real and you guarantee the withdrawal of uncertainty so that you just go chasing the high again. And the more you chase the high, the worse the uncertainty gets, and the more you need to chase certainty again. This is what compulsions are all about. They create the very things we're trying to escape. So it's useful to cut out these compulsions.
@@everybodyhasabrain wow great explanation
Should've figured I wasn't the only one who had existential OCD fears. One of my biggest OCD fears was that I wasn't real, that I didn't exist. Took me years to get over. One of the things that exacerbated my fears was being alone so much. Being alone is being alone with your own thoughts, and it gives your minds more of a chance to obsess. Simply talking about it can be such a big help at times. Thanks for the video, Mark. Peace :)
Phillip Andrew how did you get over this and are you fully over this fear?
I’m gonna cry.. this is my current theme and it hurts so much.
@@Lunaluvskitties I'm sorry. For me, getting over this, and all other fears, was just to realize that it was all just my mind being hyper alert and fearing everything it could because of that alertness. It's a bit like people coming back from war who have PTSD. They may freeze and react sharply to the slightest loud noise, because their mind is still primed for the warzone. For OCD, I realized all the fears made my mind primed for this and all new fears too, because my mind was stuck in fear and anxiety constantly (a big enabler of this too was that I had no one to talk to, I was isolated, so my mind was more susceptible to casually slip back whenever).
I had worse fears after that, but I realized eventually that it felt the same as the other fears. Basically, OCD made my mind look for things to be afraid of, and none of it was based on rational thought. It was all ridiculous.
Eventually, I just started calling my mind out for that, every time a fear came up, and slowly it went away.
Remind yourself constantly that you have a disorder and that's the only reason for the anxiety/fear--and nothing more.
This is wonderful wisdom and a great reminder about the nature of OCD. It’s so easy to get sucked into content as it always feels different and real - “the last obsession was BS but If only I can work this out, then I can start living” etc
it takes time doesn't it. it's taken me 10 years to find wellness. I was encouraged to hear your struggle has been the same Mark thanks.
Wow what you said about being a drug addict and asking yourself if it's really helping really clicked with me. It's so hard when you're on the verge of doing a compulsion. Is there anything else you can tell yourself so that you won't engage in it? I guess it's a matter of just doing it. Also, what if you slip up and do do(lol) a compulsion? I tend to beat myself up over that. It's hard to just move forward. Anyway Thanks again Mark for all you do. You are changing my life and most importantly giving alot of us hope =) hope you have a great day!!!
In such a dark place at the moment after reading about enlightenment and spirituality. It all states that the idea of 'self' is an illusion. Like if all the atoms in your body are constantly changing, who are 'you'? I have OCD and obviously it has latched on to this. For someone who always thrived off the company of others and me helping others, to think people might not be real worries me so much. Trying to not to engage in rumination and googling things and also started meds today. I worry that it isn't even OCD sometimes...
@0o xia o0 try to live with the fact that you don't know if people around are real. This helps me, to deal with that fear. You don't know and there is nothing you can do to be forever satisfied. I mean why did you never doubt that earlier, because it wasn't a topic for you. Then at some point you had the idea that everything might be an illusion and that frightend you so much that you had to be sure. What does it change if they are not real? You will still live the exact same life, except the time missing you spent obsessing about that topic, which in the end brings up more questions. You need to start to focus on your life and accept the anxiety about that. It will fade as soon as you proved your brain that it's ok having this idea, I guess.
Whether people are real or not doesn’t change one fact about our lives, like he says live based on your values. If people exist or not you can still go out and make meaningful life long connections with them and swap ideas.
Currently dealing with the same!! It's like spirituality ruined everything for me. Like, I was in such a good place, I had overcame pure ocd and then I started reading these spiritual things, that everything is a projection, that life is a dream, non dualism... Really weird! I'd love to talk to people who are dealing with the same. It made me question spirituality and my faith.
@@Rocio-wy2egcan we chat? I’ve been going through this for years and I feel so alone :(
Mark, the work you are doing is awesome and I am so thankful for your videos. My obsessions focus on my mental health; "am I depressed, I am depressed, what if I spiral so far downward that I become suicidal." Even in a moment of happiness, the thought will come, "No, you are actually sad and down." How do I proceed? How do I stop analyzing and reacting to how I feel, when what I feel feels so real? I just want to be happy...
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I obsess about the FEELINGS, both physically and mentally, of anxiety and I get so scared. Can you do ERP for that type of obsession, fear of the fear ?
+sdg921 I seriously have the same problem being afraid of feeling what I am feeling
sdg921 hey, sorry for the random message but I saw a comment you left on Mark Freeman's page a year ago. I was wondering if you ever got help or learned better methods for dealing with it?
+jocelyn laboy, I am in therapy and doing ERP currently to overcome the fear of depression/suicide. I have gotten better overall with this theme, but there is still a part that lingers so we are working on it. I have read a lot on acceptance and commitment therapy as well and that has helped. When I feel anxious/down etc, I acknowledge the thoughts or sensations and GO ON WITH MY DAY! This has made a big difference in keeping myself from going "down the rabbit hole." Do you struggle with similar thoughts and fears?
That's wonderful! Over the years I've struggled with it but never really wanted to get help in fear of the typical stuff like what people would think, what happens if it doesn't work? You know all that stuff. For once I've decided to look for a proper therapist so I'm just "fishing" around to find a good one that I feel comfortable with. I'm glad you reached out to me though, feels good to know someone else has felt exactly the same way.
Wow, thank you! I have been dealing with existential/morality obsessions and you’re right… I’ve been operating from the belief that I should know the answers for certain. Totally unhealthy and something I want to reevaluate.
thank u so much for all videos. And for saying that if the doubt is real doesn't mean we have to do the compulsion. This was really a good advice. I hope i won't forget it.
Compulsions have caused me to accidentally break things by "redoing" what I did. I've lost hundreds if not thousands of dollars over different scenarios because of compulsions. So keep it mind, compulsions can and do more harm in the longer run.
Absolutely!
"The fact that a thought is real doesn't mean that the compulsion you engage in as a reaction to that thought is healthy for you...So when I am talking about cutting out compulsions, learning how to accept thoughts here, I am talking about things you think are real - or might actually be happening .Whether a thought is real or not. False or not or totally strange or out there, it doesn't change the healthy things you can do in the present moment that are going to help you achieve your goals in life."That statement right there really struck me hard for some reason. I watched it the other day when you had just put the video out and been thinking about it the last two days (and just relistened a few times over to type it out, aha) So often I think I will/ would try to feel like I can only NOT do a compulsion if the fact or idea that whatever it is won't actually happen, or at least not permanently. In actuality though that is just a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts in a way. I realized a week or so ago that I was constantly worrying that I was going to feel sick. That eating something would make me feel sick, when I did eat it, if I didn't feel sick, afraid I would, which was making me feel sick that whole time thinking about it from anxiety; being afraid I somehow did "feel sick" but couldn't feel it and my body was being destroyed from the inside out and I couldn't feel it yet; that I would at some point and it would be even worse! Etc. One thing I have been trying to remind myself of more recently is advice I'd seen on a forum somewhere I believe. That was, focus on how things ACTUALLY are, instead of how ones brain is saying they are. That is, worrying and freaking out being afraid of how things "are" because of a bunch of anxiety and judgments afraid of how I will feel or "do" feel versus the reality of what a situation is. I know a lot of people can probably relate to just being somewhere, where everything is calm all around but in our mind there is seemingly endless anxiety... So yeah. Back to the fact of doing the thing which is healthy despite that fear possibly actually happening... That one is still hitting me hard. Probably because my brain hates that, doesn't want whatever "that" thing is to happen, but even if it does, like you said, doesn't change the things we need to do to be happy and healthy! It doesn't make the compulsions correct, that is, it doesn't make what is driving certain behaviors as correct; it goes back to why, not necessarily what one is doing in itself. yeah. I don't know, my brain is still just reeling on this seeming revelation. Aha. Like on some level I "knew" this before but until you said it, it seemed to click more. Thanks Mark! =D
This video came to mind this morning for me and I felt the need to watch it again, when it comes to the fact that the healthy things I can do in the present moment don't change because of whatever thoughts or compulsions, feelings, etc, that occur. I got hit by a car on Monday (I was crossing the street, they made a left turn...into me), nothing broken, but bruised and head hit. Since then, my OCD decided to up it's game it feels like. I have had intrusive thoughts/ images of car crashes, while in the car, while driving and fear of accidentally hitting someone for a while now, but just keep driving anyways since I know reacting to the thoughts by stopping or trying to control the anxiety would make it worse. Now there's this fun thing though where since I now know what impact might feel like, I feel my head getting hit every time too. That's not so nice. And then some other random intrusive thought of getting cut by a small ream of paper in my hand that I am holding and is pulled out and massively slices my palm in a giant paper cut. Not really sure *why* maybe just reacting or rebound from the crash, idk. but I guess the only solution is to keep going anyways though I am wondering deep down if there is some other behavior I am doing that keeps it going. And also, I walked my dog this morning again and crossed at the street again where I hit. Most strange physical sensation ever as we crossed and kept walking, it was like my whole body and brain just slowed down and wanted to crumple and melt onto the floor and just stop, and I *knew* stopping or going a different way might make it stop, but then figured that would only make it worse in the long run, so I kept going. I figure too, killing a compulsion or intrusive thought in it's baby stage is much easier and less painful then having to tackle it if or when it ends up becoming giant and all consuming.
Hi Mark, Throughout most of my life I've experienced a sensation of what I call existential angst. Usually it is roughly between the hours of 3 pm to 6 pm. It feels in a sense like I am disassociating or disconnecting from the world around me. My 'theory' is that this experience is due to the absence of people around me during 'that period' when in grade school. I did not have active friends thru a lot of that time, and thus was alone with myself quite a bit. I also had inattentive parents that did not provide either healthy boundaries or adequate nurturing.
I clearly have OCD. In my early 20's, I performed a multitude of rituals to 'attempt' to get out of the house. Since that time (I'm now 56), my OCD is still present and I continue to have difficulty with mental compulsions over obsessive thoughts, sometimes existential like questions that you relate in your video, but in other ways as well. The most common obsessive thought is "oh no, if only I had..... stayed in college, maintained a certain relationship, chose this over that, had the mentor-ship I so needed, or the right therapist..,...then my whole life would have been entirely different and I would be a self actualized, alive and vibrant human being....... You get the idea. I know that one has to live with 'what ifs', but I find it terribly difficult when I see so many young people having relationships and evidently living 'without' significant inhibition, or self-questioning, and in the flow of life. Such as not been my experience probably at least 90% of the time. This is painful for me. I believe mindfulness and radical acceptance are in order, with perseverance in finding vibrancy in my life now!
I also have been diagnosed in the last 4 years with borderline personality disorder of which having a vulnerable sense of self is one of the symptoms, among others, such as pushing people away. I also have shame over sexuality since early grade school, being drawn more to man than to women, while at the same time obsessing whether I am truly bisexual, given my attraction to women, even having a relationship with several. Depression is also at work with what I call, obsessive negativity(often seeing the glass half full). My current therapist is aware of OCD, but I'm not sure, even given him stating otherwise, whether he is up to the task, given both diagnoses. As an aside, I wish it was you!
So now I'm wondering if the existential angst & the experience of disassociating is brought about by habitual automatic obsessive thoughts, starting during these relatively isolated periods from childhood and beyond; especially since I'm a highly critical thinker. I also know that more than one thing can be true, in fact many things are true at the same time. So perhaps there also is a predisposition for this not only from faulty wiring from OCD, but also from the constitutional vulnerability of having BPD. In the end, both conditions need to be treated, as well as the depression and the shame.
So what are my questions, given the unknown, and the paralyzing influence of these conditions when all are at play?
Is OCD primarily at work with my dis-associative symptoms (very painful) in the afternoon, or is likely a consequence of both OCD and BPD, fostered by a childhood of isolation & avoidance, with a tendency for critical thinking? Given the lack of boundaries and nurturing, I believe I succumbed to what constitutes a strong defensive posture(living in my head), giving all my conditions a place to flourish.
Or is what I have described mostly OCD, and thus needs, at least initially, to be treated as such?
I have not found a therapist that seems to be able to hold and address these conditions.
Any thoughts on all of this?
You might find it helpful not to approach all of this as all of these different conditions. Even depression and shame are just natural bi-products of what you mentioned.It sounds like all of these labels are creating barriers and pushing you into compulsions. I often suggest to people that just have mental health and approach it that way, and not even approach it as mental illness. If success depends on beating mental illness, then you need to keep the mental illness around so you can beat it. Instead, a useful exercise can be to consider what you would do tomorrow if you didn't have any of these labels to trip on. How do you want to spend your time and energy tomorrow? What challenges would get in the way of doing what you want to do? How can we remove those challenges so you can do the things you actually want to do?
Thank you for your response.
Questions:
How "all of these labels are creating barriers and pushing you (me) into compulsions"??
Am I not eventually going to have to deal with these "conditions"?? They clearly have been barriers to moving forward. I label them only to present myself as clearly as possible without the ability for you to see me in action. I have gone about my days but personality disorder (or whatever i ought to call it) is extremely destructive in developing and maintaining relationships. My OCD is ever present in terms of obsessional thinking.
I welcome the challenge, and have at times been able to view the world afresh and take steps. But ultimately (over time) I am stymied.
thank you Mark for this video!
lately, I been asking those existential questions.
You're welcome! All the best with hugging those uncertainties!
+Mark Freeman
thank you!
The most important point for me, you have raised a few times, is that in actual fact, the compulsion leads to the obsession. It feels like the obsession comes first but whos to know what came first right at the beginning. Are people who say that obsessions come first really helping us? I've been told it a couple times. Also, I too am going to take the approach that addictions are just as much a compulsion - finding that temporary relief whilst perpetuating long term suffering. (whether it be more difficult at first than OCD or not, who cares anymore).
I do find it hard to follow your vids sometimes, because indeed compulsions are so engrained in me and even paying attention is altered (I do have other diagnoses other than anxiety disorders too but this stuff is gonna help those too). Maybe a couple of decent OCD meditations I found are going to help me the next few weeks. Maybe I shouldn't read too much. But i'm certainly ordering your book as in time it will transform my life like none of the others have. My two favourite books at the moment are overcoming obsessive thoughts (purdon and clark), and a more recent mindfulness OCD workbook (cant remem but you'll know the one! the mindfulness ocd centre guys LA).
Thanks for answering my question man! It really made me realise which direction I need to head in
You're welcome, Thomas. Thanks for posting it! Good luck as you tackle that challenge.
Amazing video, thanks so so so much
The first 2 minutes of this video woke me from a week long thought loop.
Wow thank you for going over these topics
Mark, again, thank you
Hey Mark,
I'm diagnosed with an anxiety and panic disorder and I've also been dealing with compulsive thoughts at times. I had a really bad time with derealization and existential thoughts, which I payed a lot of respect due to my anxiety, in the past, but I got a lot better. Unfortunately I had a major setback the last few days. If I walk the streets, I have either feelings of derealization or those thoughts like "Am I the only person on the planet?" or "How do I know if anything is real?". It really stresses me out. The last time it was getting better, it was because I just lived my life and ignored those thoughts, but it felt like I was pushing the problem away and now it hit me as hard as ever. I really want to face this condition now to fully recover this time. I guess accepting the uncertainty of existence is the first step, but do you have another advice?
I really enjoyed your videos so far!
Best regards!
13blade37 It can help to tackle the compulsions that feed these experiences. I did a video on depersonslization / derealization you can find here: czcams.com/video/kHkC58l193s/video.html The uncertainty and anxiety comes because of the compulsions, so although it's useful to practice acceptance, it's important to cut out the compulsions, otherwise it's like trying to practice acceptance with pain while hitting yourself with a hammer.
Okay I will try that out, thanks for the quick answer, and keep up the great work!
13blade37 Hey man, It's been 2 months since you posted this comment, have things gone better? Are you still having the same thoughts?
Though You might have already known, the thoughts that you had were related to solipsism. There are many blogs on the Internet where people had OCD related to solipsism anxiety, and have gotten better over time. How are you now?
Hey Abhishek Sharma, I'm still struggeling with these thoughts. They don't make me panic anymore, but I still feel lost and alone. I somehow know people and the world are real, but there is always that doubt like 'what if?' I hope I can go back to normal.
I've already read about the solipsism theme and I'm glad to here people can recover. That helps a bit.
Hey, I study at a university, but we got vaccation right now, so I'm sitting arround at home a lot, which makes my condition worse. I try to l involve myself into the world and connect to people, the problem is that this is what I fear the most. I went to a party last weekend and was extreme anxious in the beginning but I enjoyed it after a while. But that's the thng with anxiety, we got to face our fears to beat them. Thanks for your advice I rreally often tend to withdraw and overthink everything in my life all day long instead of just living it.
I can really relate to your last point, my brain also always tries to find something to attach anxiety to it. There were even days where I felt fine and I felt like something is missing, like I need that daily dose of anxiety or panic. It's strange and sad, because I normally enjoy life, I like my friends and I am not really depressed, but my mind always finds a ways to reject any kind of hapiness.
mate thank you for these videos, please dont stop. can you make one for HOCD
+jokinwifdajoker I made one on Straight OCD but it has useful tips for HOCD as well: czcams.com/video/veq6PNseLEU/video.html
Hey Mark thanks for touching up on exestential ocd. Its been a huge struggle of mine for months now & my biggest fear is what lies ahead. The word eternity, if it exists, just drives extreme fear into me since i dont know how this uncertaint will play out. It just makes my mind feel trapped. I never gave this much thought until after multiple losses to loved ones. What other advice could you offer me? Thanks in advanced!
It's great that you recognize you don't know how this uncertainty will play out. OCD is all about trying to get rid of uncertainty. The more you try to get rid of that uncertainty and the more you want to get rid of it, the more anxiety it will cause. So exploring ways you can embrace it and enjoy it might be more useful if you don't want to make OCD worse.
so what are those ways of embracing it ??
Hi Joe, how are you now 7 years after your comment? Have you recovered from existential OCD?
I recently had a personal "epiphany" and decided to start referring to the addictions I've had throughout life as compulsions. I've changed them at will throughout my life - drugs, alcohol, workaholism, video games, etc. I was thinking that instead of trying to fight these compulsions, maybe I could try to embrace this aspect of myself and just redirect myself to have healthier compulsions/habits? What if compulsions have helped our species survive, or are a result of evolution? thanks
it helped me, as well, to see addictions and compulsions as the same thing. But I find that it's the patterns of behaviour and thinking that cause challenges, not whether it's "healthy" or "unhealthy". If somebody believes they need drugs to relieve stress or they believe they need yoga to relieve stress, it does nothing to solve the problems creating that stress or the reasons why we want to avoid specific feelings and thoughts
Mark Freeman u
One thing that confuses me is that sometimes I will cut a compulsion while doing something I value such as painting, but my compulsion will be "I need to finish painting this section" or something, so I'll just ignore that and go do something else for a while, but the next day I will still have that anxiety, but I still value continuing with the painting because it's something I enjoy - should I ride out the initial curve first before returning to the activity? I feel like continuing is just neutralising the first piece of anxiety.
I find it really helpful to shift the focus to the things we value doing in life and build backwards from there. If we make our mental health work focused on things we want to avoid, then it's very easy to get caught up in these difficulties. It would be like saying that weightlifting is about rest. But if you spend all day resting, you never lift any weights! Rest is certainly a component of lifting weights but it helps to build your workout plan around the weightlifting, not the resting.
Hello Mark, i have ocd where everything I look at, touch and think about becomes a trigger accompanied by a terrible thought, I label everything in other words, and think that it will stay this way forever. I also have to repeat words all the time. This is due to many years of marijuana abuse. Im making progress by using Erp but it's still uncomfortable 24/7. I was wondering how long until I become stable enough to function in a productive way. I have given up the marijuana now completely. The ocd has been out of control for around 2 months now. Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks. -Lloyd
This comment was ages ago but, how are you now?
Hi Mark :) Thanks for everything you've done and still continue to do. I have a question for you. I would be glad if you could answer. I have some thoughts regarding guilt. These thoughts are about Real stuff, but I don't know how to react to them. I don't know if they actually regard my values or not. The main one is about animals. From morning till night I Think about animal farming and the sufference we create, but there is something that keeps me from going vegan. When I walk, I'm always careful to not step on ants or bugs. Even when I feel itchy, before I scratch myself, I see if there are insects or small animal on my arm. This creates tons of anxiety. I actually don't know what to do. Yesterday I was talking with a friend of mine about abortion (I have always been in favour), but when I was walking home I started ruminating on this subject feeling guilty. I dont know if these thoughts are about my values and whether I should make changes in my life. There's a part of me, that is slowly fading, that says: I don't want to care about all of this. Could you give me a hint? Thanks very very much :)
It seems that in some ways that short term relief by doing a compulsion is seen as better than the long term "addiction" one gets to keep performing a compulsion. Yes, the relief is obviously very good and we believe it's doing good, but is there anything else hidden in the relief that fuels us to keep wanting more relief?
Hey Mark i got one question, how exactly would be a reaction to an intrusive thought completely without all compulsions.. Would be just completely not reacting at all or what exactly??
This is helpful! I have a question tho' how do you differentiate having existential ocd form existential crisis? I guess I've had Harm OCD and Existential OCD seems like got into the mix. I kinda managed my Harm OCD with ERP and currently doing ERP for my existential OCD and handling it much better. But right now my main concern is since I'm moving on form my existential OCD (which tells me that life has no purpose or that life has no meaning), I'm currently having an existential crisis because I dont know what to do with my life anymore and I'm afraid that if I started putting goals and meaning with my life the OCD will treat it as me giving assurance that life has meaning and it will go back again then my Harm OCD will be triggered saying "maybe if I'm here for no reason then what's stoping me from doing harm to myself". It's exhausting! Any thoughts? Thank youu!
can i ask you a question bro? i used to love diving deep into philosophical and spiritual questions. that is the place where i used to find meaning into my life. now because of anxiety and dp all these existential questions frighten me and i obsess a lot about the meaning/meaninglessness of life. when i get out of this, will i be able to tap into my philosophical side again?
Sure, but you'll probably want to do it differently. Engaging in compulsions naturally leads to experiences like dp and frightening existential uncertainties. When people struggle with mental health, they can often point to past experiences where their compulsions were useful--they got praise for spending hours and hours working on things obsessively, or they were able to prevent something bad from happening, or everybody always thought they were so hilarious when they were drunk--being the life of the party is what they enjoyed doing! I found it helped to recognize that the things I did before, got me to where I am. So if I don't like where I am, it doesn't make sense to like the things that got me there. It's like saying you find meaning in dropping bricks on your feet, but then complaining about the pain in your feet. So you might fin value in exploring how you can build your spiritual and philosophical practice in a way that doesn't drop bricks on you.
Mark Freeman i do remember using way too much time and energy "obsessing" about some religious questions when i was symptom free. i felt a huge relief every time i finally found an answer that was emotionally satisfying. now that you put it that way, this sounds exactly like ocd even though there were no distressing symptoms yet
It helped me to recognize that OCD isn't about "distress". It's more like a practice. Waiting for distress is like saying you don't have to eat healthy until you're having a heart attack. It takes a lot of practicing OCD before it becomes distressing. And what happens with OCD is that we chase certainty and get satisfied by it, so our brains come up with increasingly complex and unsolvable uncertainties so we can try to chase after those. So something that was once enjoyable, eventually becomes distressing and impossible. In the future, when you explore interesting topics, you may find it helpful to pursue questions instead of answers.
Mark Freeman it's kind of hard for me to navigate my compulsions. what i've learned is that many times during the day, i have questions or worries that i feel like i have to figure out right now. what i do is ruminate, look for the answers in internet, library and ask for guidance from my friends. are these the compulsions that keep the obsessions alive? is the first step trying to look for the moments when i "have to" do something or else something bad happens?
Yes, those things you described are compulsions that will only create more uncertainties and anxieties. There won't always be a fear of something bad happening. Sometimes the bad thing happening is simply the continued experience of a thought or feeling we don't like, or find uncomfortable, so we try to get rid of it. I find it helps to look at how I want to spend my time and energy. We can make changes in our actions and do things that we actually care about.
Have you addressed what Jeffrey Schwartz called the "stickyness of the brain " or a malfunctioning gear shift?
I often find myself feeling like I'm glued to the bed and after meditation like something inside me just wants to not go running and stay in the chair (even though I've been running regularly for 3 years now), especially in the mornings.
I find that ACT does not account for that . I know you're not fond of motivational techniques, but Jonathan Grayson says that you need to prepare motivational scripts that remind you of the tremendous pain and despair OCD brought to you in the past. And I find that is necessary too.
Because OCD has a way of talking you into a feeling of certainty and "all will be fine"- slumber. to keep you from engaging in the very hard exposure sessions. What's your take on that?
So the hashtags are "stickyness", "transitioning from one action to another without the one bleeding into the other", "motivation", "ocd lulling you into a false sense of security".
I actually see ACT as all about this. It's not a coincidence that the acronym is spells "act". It's all about doing things and taking action. Often when issues to do with motivation come up, I also suggest looking beyond OCD and mental health labels. Many people encounter difficulty exercising and think of reasons not to get up and go running. But if they hadn't encountered any mental illness labels, they wouldn't see it as part of a sticky gear shift. It's just a brain doing brainy things. Like with any feeling or thought, we can choose to let it govern our actions, or we can let that feeling be there and take it along for a run.
Okay thanks. I think it's healthy to look at it that way, not getting lost in the details.
However, there is the necessity to me of not taking ocd too lightly. One has to somehow be willing to do what it takes to fight the compulsions. And the price you pay for that is a lot of pain. You will resist that pain and if there is nothing you can redirect yourself with in the moment of pain, I think it's going to be very very hard, if not impossible.
My point being making fighting ocd just the byproduct of a lifestyle change is, at least in the beginning, might be too hard. Maybe you address your core fears first , very narrowly, and then continue to contruct your life around act.
When struggling with OCD it's very common to think you have to do something to control one feeling so you can do something else. Somebody might want to do a ritual with their door lock because they're afraid they'll feel distracted at work if they don't. Or they might not want to touch things they see as contaminated because they're about to go on a date and they're afraid they'll always think of their date connected to that contaminated thing. Or they might feel they need to confess some past mistake to a partner because they believe they'll always be burdened by it and won't enjoy the relationship unless they do confess. There many ways we can engage in compulsions, believing we need to do particular compulsions before we can get other feelings or do the things we really care about. But anything we do as an attempt to control feelings we don't like will only cause more of those feelings. You've given enough time and energy to OCD.
I watch these videos when I feel anxiety and it makes it easier to see thoughts as stories, noise, not real, not me. Is researching stuff when I feel the anxiety a compulsion?
I would approach it as a compulsion. Instead, when you feel that anxiety, I would go and do something I care about. The anxiety can come along for the ride while I live my life. I don't have to put things on hold for anxiety.
Marc,
Are you on meds for OCD? Did you get through this without meds? I have been off for 2 years. The beast comes alive more often than it use to but I really don;t wanna go back to meds.
+Michael Raphael I never took any medication for anything mental health-related and I don't take any medication now. If you notice OCD coming back then it's useful to explore why and cut out the compulsions that are creeping back in. Compulsions fuel obsessions but many compulsions are things we like to do. They don't bother us and they seem perfectly "normal", and it's not until the anxiety reaches an alarming level that we notice something's wrong. So it's great that you're catching this early.
I have recently started watching your videos and they have helped me deal with my anxiety tremendously and I am extremely thankful. So I have a question on the issue of being a hypochondriac and dealing with the anxiety that comes from this
Can you explain your question a bit more?
+Mark Freeman what I'm trying to say is what triggers hypochondria and believing that you have a certain disease and if the methods you explained about ERP and ACT also help with dealing with the anxiety that is caused by thinking you have a certain illness
+th3p0ss3 Yes, ERP and ACT are for any uncertainty. I found ACT especially helpful for health anxiety.
Hey Mark thanks for your videos it has helped me a lot through my recovery .But recently there has been constant headache in the right side of head and its chronic.what to do.I am feeling helpless.and also i have never taken any medication,what exercises can i practice?
I am also from India please reply i hope we would be able to talk
i feel out of my body like something else is trying to work through me i feel outside of myself what is this ?
I would really appreciate your response. I was diagnosed with pure ocd, but I doubt I have it. From my understanding, people with pure o have mental compulsions that relieve their anxiety, but nothing relieves mine. I’m not afraid of uncertainty, I’m afraid of my loved ones not being real. I read about some wild and out there philosophies and started to believe it and it scared me. Like “Are my loved ones really my imagination? Am I alone?” Kind of fearPlease let me know what you think? :( it’s been years of this and I really need help 7:32
I don’t compulsively research, mentally check or anything… I just worry about it 24/7. Sometimes I may ask for reassurance, but it’s just because I feel so alone and I don’t know of anyone who’s gone through this so I want to know what’s going on so I can start to heal
Checking online for reassurance about this is actually an example of a physical compulsion. I don't know where you read that compulsions "relieve" anxiety but that's not an over-simplification. Often they just create more anxiety and more uncertainty!
@@everybodyhasabrainThank you so much! There is so much misinformation out there that it’s so confusing to know what’s really ocd or not! Was seeking out and asking about this/seeing if other people have what I have a form of reassurance seeking?
@@Lunaluvskitties Yes, that's a very common compulsion. It often has the opposite effect we're hoping for.
Hey Mark:)
Just had some ideas that maybe you could talk about on your channel that I was thinking about and have not really seen anyone else talk about them.
- I was wondering if you have spoken to anyone who has experienced obsessions outside of relationships. So not being in a relationship and having these obsessions about what if I no longer find my partner attractive far away in the future or since I don't have a partner focusing on flaws of men in general. Where its almost a preventative for liking anyone ever again. Very strange.
-I also have Hocd(I know themes don't matter, but for reference) I saw this post about a lesbian women who also has HOCD and she talked about how it was like all the stuff she liked about women is gone and now it seems that everything about men is just amazing. I had something like this as well. I could notice a flaw on a man and a women could have the exact same flaw, but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.Even though I know thats stupid and everyone else has flaws. So it almost elevates your obsession to be true. Sorry if I don't make sense.Almost like the grass is greener syndrome or something lol
Also I was wondering if you experienced feeling strange about when you start to feel like yourself. Like your faking it. For example, for a long time I would be like im not gay. and that no longer gave me anxiety then when i WOULD BE LIKE iM STRAIGHT THAT WAS anxiety provoking and then I felt like I was faking.
Sorry this was long I just thought this was interesting and haven't heard anyone talk about it.
This is actually why it's useful not to get caught up in the superficial content of an obsession. It can really help to take a step back from all of that and look at the fundamental patterns in OCD. It's always going to be about uncertainty and it'll latch onto any uncertainty in the context of where you're at. So if a person isn't in a relationship, it'll latch onto uncertainties about not being in a relationship, how will I find somebody, will they be the right one, what if I get stuck with the wrong partner after all of this searching, will I meet somebody at this social event I'm going to, why can't I find somebody that meets at least some of what I'm looking for, etc. And like any obsession/compulsion, it's wrapped up in judgments. Uncertainty about something coupled with judging, which only makes the uncertainty worse. That's all any OCD obsession is. There's absolutely nothing strange about that. And it's so useful to start to notice that the same thing happening with judging flaws in men also happens with judging OCD stories from other people. The more you check, the less able you are to find what you're looking for. If you're doing lots of reading about OCD and relationship-related issues, that's a compulsion. And like with any compulsion, your brain wants you to keep doing it, so it won't let you find what you're looking for. You're also seeing a variation of this effect at work in the other things you mentioned--your brain doesn't care what the uncertainty is about, it just wants you to keep going with the compulsions. So if you decide you're going to be certain about something, then your brain will just latch onto something else. You can see right there that the topic of the obsession doesn't matter at all. That's why it's so important to take a step back from these details you mentioned and just look at uncertainty and uncomfortable feelings. If you believe that uncomfortable feelings mean things, then your brain will use that every time to just trick you back into compulsions.
Thank you so much. This is quite helpful:)
Hi mark I have a problem with realness, I struggle to accept that when things change their still real? If a band has no original members how can they be the real band?. I understand that this is my thought and I should not try to sort it out and just let it be without carrying out mental compulsions, but if I don’t try and work it out the said problems feel like stuck in limbo? If packaging of a chocolate bar changed design, is it still real? Or if the company reverted back to the old packaging is it then just a copy of what it was before it was changed? I have 100s Of scenarios my mind is in a constant puzzle. It’s like I’m try to answe the chicken and the egg puzzle with everything😢
This is a common compulsion. I find it helps to consider how I want to spend my time and energy in life. Is being certain about bands or chocolate bars something you want to spend your life on? There are many uncertainties I could chase after, but when my brain throws them at me, I can notice that uncertainty and choose to do something I actually care about.
A friend of mine is an engineer and he continues to carry out his work using traditional methods regardless of modern technology that would make his job easier. I’ve been worrying about this for the last few weeks,I know it’s ridiculous but I’m struggling to work out if what he is doing is real, genuine? I know what he is doing is actually happening but I can’t get this feeling like it’s a copy? I know I should just let this thought be but I get this feeling of limbo, like yes he is doing what he is doing but it may not be real and it’s being misled? I seem to attach meaning to everything. Then I also try to compare that thought to another thought I’ve had before to see if that match up! Is the key to this just to not try and answer any of this? And just let what happens happen ?
Also I’ve discovered that I have low testosterone and I’m about to be put on a replacement program with my doctor. I’ve read that low testosterone levels can cause anxiety and depression,have you any thoughts or knowledge of this?
I hope I'm not annoying you I just have a lot of burning questions haha.
So, I know you say we must learn to sit with uncertainty but if one is uncertain about, let's say being a pedophile, how could they go the rest of their lives unsure about something that important? I feel like you have to find that out one way or another.. but maybe that way of thinking is part of the problem...
+Isabel G That way of thinking is a big part of the problem. You could just as easily spend your life trying to be certain that you're not a million different things. OR you could spend your life doing the things you actually care about and creating the life and relationships you want to see in the world.
+Mark Freeman I understand. It's easy to say and much harder to put into practice but I'm trying. Thanks!
?Can You Deal with Social Anxiety as type Of OCD And how
+rae fen Thanks for the question. I just uploaded a video responding to it. You can find the video here: czcams.com/video/CMQ3ENrUlcU/video.html
hey mark sorry to bug u.. and i know you did a similar topic to this before with the false memory ocd.. but could you possible elaborate on that more? would just like to hear u talk about it more... I have a severe problem of something i made up in my head of something that happened in a split second and created all these horror stories around it in my head which feel horrible to me and make me feel shame guilt fear... and i know that nothing even happened it was all created in my head by me... its horrible..
+ShockPopStudios Sorry to hear about the struggles! Is there something in particular you'd like to hear more about related to this?
it's just everyday past events just circle in my mind that should have been nothing to begin with but out of pure o ocd i have built stories around it making me feel worry, fear, humiliation, guilt, anger, seeking revenge.. it just eats my life away and i can't get past them.. there are a few things people i hate that said something to me or something i regret saying that just loop in my head everyday for the past 2 going on 3 years.. my whole life has just went into the gutter because of this.. it all started when i was 27 im almost 29 and just don't see hope.. my life feels like its never going to get back on track..
One thing I would suggest is not seeing this as an issue with "false memories" or "pure O". If you do things as a reaction to thoughts, those things are compulsions. So whatever you're doing or not doing that makes you feel that your life is off track, those are the compulsions. If you do things as a reaction to feeling worry, fear, humiliation, guilt, anger, the desire to seek revenge, etc, it's totally natural for your life to go off track. The great thing is that everybody who struggles with the stuff in their heads ends up in this situation.
And there's a very effective, scientific, healthy approach to getting things back on track, and that's to start accepting those feelings and actually doing things you value, whether they're there or not.
You don't have to let stuff in your head decide your actions in life. But, it's also likely you'll have to throw out some unhelpful beliefs along the way. I'm not sure what benefit you might get from hating those people who said some things in the past, but you can very clearly see the negative impacts of judging them. When you feel regret, you can see the impact of judging yourself. The beliefs wrapped up in those judgments (and the compulsion of judging) are all things you'll probably find useful not to practice any longer.
And whenever a brain says it's not possible to recover or it seems hopeless, that's a great time to stop listening to that brain. Enjoy the steps ahead!
thank you mark
I read online that ERP is done for an hour and a half and that u can do the compulsion when the anxiety is 50% less.
Today am on my 5th day of cutting certain compulsions, yesterday the anxiety was so high with headache and strong urges. Today I feel the anxiety less but doubts are still there. My question is why they say u can check when anxiety is less! I fear this will cause a relapse, and what an hour and a half ERP/ day. I spent days of exposing myself to doubts the whole day long with urges without trying to check it wasn't an hour ERP only.
+Wendy Wends I've never heard of that before. I would highly doubt that came from a reliable source.
Great video but please fix audio. It’s quite weak. Thanks again