In Downton Abbey, the costume designers touched on the whole ‘working class wearing slightly out of date clothes’ thing. If you watch carefully, you can see Lady Mary wearing an outfit in one season, and then Anna (her maid), is wearing it in the next season/a few years later! I always thought that was such a clever little touch from the costuming team.
Mary's class often gave their unwanted outfits to their staff. It was probably less noticable with men. One thing I noticed is Mary had one dress she woremore than once which is atypical of TV shows. Of course the lead costum designer did state DA's wardrobe was one of the most expensive since many pieces were archived originals of the period.
I rewatch Downton Abbey every day to notice all the details (hey), and because of the men wearing proper White and Black Tie. Even with a huge budget, the females wear the same dinner dress every now and then, possibly due to restrictions and limitations. Also Mrs. Hughes still wears a corset in the 1920's, and Daisy stopped wearing them after the war I think. Also Lady Grantham's long sleeved shirts with high collars like in the movie trailer... loved that.
Seriously! It reminds me of the 19th Century protest song, "Bread and Roses", about how working people are still human and still need art and beauty in their lives. Looking as nice as you could and feeling good about how you look isn't a new thing, and a lower-class woman in the 1700s would still have felt good stepping out in a dress she'd altered to make it look new (with the extra pride in her work!) or that was new to her.
Imagine being the first rando to walk around in a gigantic collar that you made by yourself out of oats on your tiny farm and then some rich bastard has the gall to get some laws made against you.
My God! That women is wearing silk. How did she get? Why does she even think she can wear it? I must make laws so no one will ever mistake her old silk for us rich folks clothing.
Not in those days. Today, we think in terms of social mobility and that someone with the necessary savvy, gumption, and luck can improve their lot. The people yarking about someone acting above their station are -- in fiction -- jealous and envious and resentful of the one trying to do better in life. Back then, your class was as immutable as farting, and you were expected to behave and dress in certain ways. Those sumptuary laws were attempts to maintain the visual markers of class when things changed enough to make it seem necessary.
@@biblicallyaccuratecockroach This isn't even the weirdest thing. In england, many peope still use a style of knitting that is slower and more awkward simply cause the rich people didn't want to use the same technique as the poor people. The poor people then took the style up too and now there's a different style of knitting to mainland europe that's just, slower.
Still to this day people who know nothing about being poor make the most f- up assumptions about those who do. For example, clothing donations. First, if you donate make sure the clothing is ok to wear still, make sure it's not stained, it's clean and not ripped. Donated clothing that does not suffice gets trashed, so donating it is redundant. Second, consider that woman's and children's clothing get donated the most, so if you want to really help donate men's clothing, specifically shoes in larger sizes are needed when the winter arrives. This goes for other will intentioned donations too, make sure it's good stuff. Poor people deserve nice things too. It all comes down to basic respect of ones humanity, being poor doesn't make you less of a human.
You are totally right! Saw a post going around where someone said: Just give the stuff to homeless people, they don't care about their clothes! As if the guy selling newspapers on the underground in January has the closet space to store a woman's summer dress.
And please donate more fresh vegetables! I had more than enough calories to eat growing up but I had to get some IV vitamins once because I just didn't have access to food that wasn't shelf stable. Canned food is great but when you have an impoverished 13 year old boy literally begging his parents for a dark green salad for months on end then something is wrong . I remember feeling like I needed dark greens like it was a craving from my bones. Once when I did get a bag of spinach I ate it all with some vinager Treats are nice, but we got a cake almost every week. They're over donated and basic healthy staples are severely under donated
@@persomnus I'm so sorry you had to grow up like this. My parents were still in university when I grew up, so we were pretty much dirt poor, as well. But the shitty appartment we lived in came with a huge backyard, so my mom grew fruit and vegetables there. We were so lucky! Concerning donations, I think the best thing is always to donate plain money, because the particular organisation probably knows best what's needed at the moment and what they have space for. And if you have vegetables left over, they're probably not that fresh any more. and it's going to be even harder for any NGO to store them.
Fyi, former thrift store manager here...most thrift stores also have a recycle system for clothes past their usable life. It is sold to recyclers who either make things out of them or resell in other places. While those other people deserve nice things too, fabric is used. Insulation and rugs are just some of the recycled uses.
Thanks for doing this. It's frustrating to hear a lot of fashion historians discussing subjects like "scandalous" upper class women wearing "bloomer pants" in the Victorian era when poor European working women ( coal workers, miners, etc) have been wearing pants FOREVER but because of their class it has been overlooked. The "poor" have been at the forefront of useful fashion out of necessity and then once a wealthy person gets a hold of it THEN it matters. Ugh.
My grandmother was a single parent in the 1930s, the depth of the Depression. She lived with her parents and my mom and supported herself and Mom by sewing in a WPA clothing factory. They weren't starving poor, but they were definitely working poor. Grandma skipped meals for six months to get Mom roller skates poor. Looking at the pictures, though.. They were damned well dressed. Grandma made all the clothes for the whole family, from underwear out. The fabric might have been recycled from older clothes, but the styles were as up to date as anyone.
Handmade clothing (without or without a sewing machine) was obviously the norm until very recently, with the difference between rich and poor being whether they could pay someone to do it for them. Mom, like your mother, grew up during the Depression, but on a farm (so they had plenty of food, but not much else), and they made just about everything themselves. Later on, Mom made about half of her own family's clothing, plus curtains. I learned to sew, and have made a few items for myself, but rarely do any sewing these days other than mending. I think this historical progression is fairly typical, probably because just about everyone has more money now than their equivalents did back then.
"Looking well put together" and the "Look the part" is still so fricking relevant. You wouldn't go to a job interview or a meeting in sweatpants and/or wearing a T shirt with moms spagetti spillt all over it. Well.. you can. BUT Looking well put together gives a good and favorable impression to people who don't know you. In any era.
Women of past eras were simply genius in making beautiful things out of near nothing. There was a lady that used to live in my town in the 20’s to 30’s by the name of Elsie, poor as a church mouse, but still wanted to wear the fashionable furs, and instead of waiting for her husband to maybe one day surprise her she spent the winter trapping and skinning dozens of ermine and come spring/summer she had a lovely white fur stole made by her own two hands.
Eternal_Winter87 that’s amazing! I’ve thought about getting furs by hunting since I don’t like or support the fur industry.(They’re cruel now of days) Also I think it’s important to know that you’re taking a life and appreciate the work that goes into it.
@@Megan-ir3ze I understand why you may want to hunt the animals yourself, but I really feel like the golden option is buying fur second hand. I have some lovely leather pieces that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, as a very squeamish vegetarian.
@@fruitygarlic3601 Yes! I’ve done that with three fur pieces! I would only skin an animal if I find it dead or if I’m harvesting their meat. My rule is to use all of the animal if I’m killing something. Like Native Americans. To me spiritually, it’s a big deal. ✌🏻
I think, if we consider the corset to be the bra of yesterday, many women - especially the big chested ones - would still CHOOSE to wear it. If I didn't have a bra (because they weren't invented yet) I would definitely need to address the problem of boob swag and boob weight. Either with a corset or with some sort of bandage, as they did in ancient Greece for sports. So yeah, I imagine many of these women actually preferred corset to no corset, and simply would tie it less tight for comfort. I certainly would
berlineczka Properly fitted and for general use (not the sort of high-fashion tight-laced, S-curve, etc) and their predecessor, stays, were quite comfortable. They are snug and supportive. They compress the breasts so help redistribute the weight.
Exactly. I would even consider a well-fitted corset a health enhancer - try to slouch with a corset on! :D The spine was probably happy for the support.
I would agree with this, except for certain situations. Am I bending over and doing farming things? Screw it, boobs can hang low. Is it hot as balls today? Maybe not.
I really appreciate your comment on Sumptuary laws. That's something a lot of historical fashion fans NEVER talk about. A lot of us get so carried away romanticizing fashion in the old days that we forget that depending on our social class of the time we might not have been allowed to wear those things we enjoy looking at even if we did live back then. Things were prettier clothing wise but it was also more conformist in a lot of ways.
Romanticism is heavily increased since fashion nowadays looks completely abominable and disgusting. The poorest people of the past were more stylish than the richest people in the world of our era.
"Are you poor? Are you poor, Kitty?" "Hon, do I _look_ poor to you? These sheer curtains were _designed_ to filter light to optimise my beauty as I slumber elegantly on my windowsill!"
I recently read a book, ''The unwomanly face of war'' by Svetlana Alexievich, which is consists entirely of transcripted excerpts from interviews done by the author, where she talks to women who served in the Red Army during WWII. It's an altogether fascinating and powerful read, and there are some stories of clothing as well. Since a lot of the girls were only teenagers when they went to war, they talk about how they started crying when they had to have their hair cut of and how they'd save sugar from their rations to try to use it to set their fringes into something cute as soon as it grew out enough. They'd be handed male uniforms several sizes to big, and do what they could to alter them to look less horrible. They'd use footwraps (square pieces of fabric wrapped around the foot in place of socks) to sew collars or other accessories. One woman got married on the front lines, and made her own wedding dress from whatever was available (parachute, maybe? Or just footwraps). Many of the women say how wonderful it was when, later on in the war, they were actually given female uniforms. And how much of a joy it was to be issued female underwear, instead of men's shirts. Those who could still keep civilian clothing with them might dress up in their old dresses, just among the girls, to get to feel feminine and beautiful just for a little bit. There's one story, the woman talks about a friend she had at the front lines. The friend told her one day ''I'm going to die in the battle tomorrow, I feel it. Let's go and make them issue us fresh underwear, I don't want to die in these''. And they went and got it, and the next day her friend was killed. It says something about how important fashion can be. Even in the most horrid if circumstances, starving and freezing in the mud while friends die around you, just being able to wear something nice, something that feels like normal, to remind you that there's a different life.
I'm so glad people are interested! I highly recommend it, as well as the authors other works. I'm reading Second-hand time right now, about what it was like to be a Soviet person when the union collapsed.
Even today it is degrading for women to be handed men's clothes as the standard. For example if you are given work shirts and you can only order from the men's category. There have been some discussions on askamanager.com about that. There is just that sense of "you don't matter you can wear whatever what do you mean it doesn't fit LOL women are so focused on clothes am I right"
@@sweetsandcharades8383 And then some man will be like "why are you complaining? If you want equality you can't have special treatments", but handing a man a women's shirt would be unthinkable. It's almost like the baseline human is considered to be male, and women are shaded and ridiculed for requesting that things be adapted for them the same way they are for men.
"Did poor people wear corsets?" Do poor people today wear shapewear? Do they wear makeup? Just because someone doesn't "look poor" doesn't mean they aren't struggling. Most people get ready in the morning with the thought that people will be judging them and they need to look the part of whatever role they are trying to play in society. You might think certain clothes or hairstyles aren't practical (or are costly), but being fashionable can do wonders for a person's confidence. Any confidence boost is welcome if you're struggling to make a living.
One time I went into a restaurant ok and like ppl thought I was rich because of what I was wearing but I wasn't I am poor af and shit. Soooo facts tysm.
I live on the poor side of town and everyone just wears hoodies and jeans to school lmao... Besides the few girls who wear shorts, skirts, or dresses and the boys who wear basketball shirts in -4 weather (Fahrenheit) Nobody really cares
omg that's a really good point! I mean technically it doesn't apply because Cinderella IS the true heir to her father's fortune and is NOT supposed to be treated like a peasant but in the eyes of her stepfamily and their 'crowd' that's probably how it'd have looked like... thanks for the anecdote!
No. Cinderella is taking place in about the 1890s by which point sumptuary laws weren't in effect anymore. The height of sumptuary laws was really the high and late middle ages. They were only truly relevant at a time when the difference between a rich burgher's outfits and a noble's outfits were in the cloth and trim since cut was the same.
AdoraBell ...what are you talking about? Cinderella is a fairy tale, it‘s been around for thousands of years. I‘m guessing that you are referring to the style the Disney movie is in, when you say „It takes place around 1890“ but the story is way older than that. And even Disney kept some of the traditional story elements in, so while I doubt that they thought of a specific law, the fact that her dress is WAY above her league, and therefor scandalous is definitely included in the story. (Her stepsisters don‘t even recognize her, because they are not expecting her to ever be able to wear such a dress.)
Depends. There's literally a variant of Cinderella from like 7 BCE Greece, another variant in China called Ye Xian, and a bunch of other settings as well. As far as literary versions go, the oldest one is from/set in Naples, Italy, in 1634. In that incarnation, Cinderella is a prince's daughter, and way above worrying about sumptuary laws. The most popular, French, version has Cinderella as a gentleman's daughter in 1697, so she may or may not be exempt as well. Of course, all this historical context issues could be more simply solved by 'if she was of a social class to acceptably marry a prince or king, she's probably okay to wear super rich clothes'.
@@randomalienfrommars0567 Probably not, I think - anyone who lived in Cinderella's, and thus her stepsisters', community would presumably know who Cinderella's dad is, who her family is and what class they belong to. Communities were much more closely-knit until relatively recently, everyoneeee was up in each others' business.
Fun fact about those clothing laws that I learned from my theatre history class, in England, the only exception to these laws was the theatre. Because actors had to portray these rich characters on stage, they were allowed to wear the clothing of the rich and rich people would often donate their clothes to the theatre!
I'm always amazed when people think that poor people wouldn't wear corsets. For all intents and purposes its like a bra. Unless, youre at home alone or particularly small breasted, most women wouldn't leave home without a bra. For workers, it also had an additional back support element.
Tbh, im an 65I/30G/30H (Eur/US/UK) and i cant stand bras, even sportswear hurts my ribcage so much! Before I'm finished dressing, putting my hair in a bun, getting my lunch out of the fridge and leaving i want to remove it and often do because fuck that.. but a corset feels lovely!
BACK SUPPORT, YES. I worked a job when I was 14-15 where I was often at my feet for 4 hours at a go, lifting heavy objects, etc. I had a steel corset then for exactly this purpose - it took some of the strain off my back and made life more comfortable for me.
Well sorry to break it to peasant, that velvet coat is a few decades old on fashion, hence why it's at Goodwill. Try the Hansel of Martorium down Jefferson road for a more high fashion look, but I doubt a peasant girl could enter such an establishment. *Scoff**scoof* 🧐💅👸
I heard in some counties that the sumptuary laws were not closely enforced. Either because they didn't care enough or because they could be "persuaded" to look the other way. No idea if this is true or not, but based on human nature, it sounds like it could be. I can't imagine every law enforcement man wanting to look at everyone's clothes to check they weren't breaking the law (though some would DEFINITELY take extra pains to do just that).
@@SuperMrsMar l can just imagine one guy who doesnt care about the law just ignoring everyone, and a guy who is Javert 2.0 just bursting into peoples home yelling that he wants to see your clothes because he smells fancy clothing in the area.
Having milked a cow before, I’ll tell you- it’s probably easier in a corset. Or, a flexible type corset. And much of the working class corsetry was more flexible. Think stays with cording and whatnot. But having that extra support for your back would actually make things easier, not harder. If I could afford a proper corset, I’d go for it in a second. Because it’s basically a back brace that’s far more attractive, and would also serve as a bra as well. That would be amazing for me- I have a severe spinal condition that means I use a wheelchair, and I’m in a lot of pain all the time. A corset would really help me with that. So they aren’t anywhere near as uncomfortable or as difficult as it sounds. They were very sensible items that would have helped working class women with working all day, because they would have supported the back in a way that our undergarments simply don’t do anymore.
@@kenna176 Mystic City Corsets and Timeless Trends are both good corset companies. My Corset Story has a LOT of issues, like using the wrong kind of boning, fit issues, etc. I have two that I wear because of chronic issues from an autoimmune disorder, and they've helped reduce my smaller back injuries a lot.
L M Thanks for the recommendations! I work a desk job, and I know my posture is suffering for it. I'll look into these. Between Morgan Donner & Bernadette Banner, I keep wanting to make my own, which is an AWFUL idea 😂
@@kenna176 Not an awful idea at all, as long as you make mock ups. Most women up until the latter end of the industrial revolution made their own corsets, by hand not machine too. You can certainly do it if you have the patience. I recommend checking out Foundations Revealed who have a free article which teaches you to pattern draft (you just sign up with an email for the full thing I believe. At least you used to.) Then a ton of other free bits too. Then there are subscriptions when they are open. Other than that the Learn To Make Corsets Like A Pro facebook group is great. Full of helpful supportive people who will give you suggestions and help you on your way if you do try. Plus Sew Curvy do some corset patterns which come complete with all the supplies you'd need (other than a sewing machine) to make a corset which are good and Julia might still offer the custom patterns where you submit measurements and she drafts the pattern you buy which takes the tricky bit out. As for the corset construction itself, if you can sew a straight (ish) line then you are good to go. There are lots of seams to sew, but its the same thing each time mostly. One straight line from top to bottom/bottom to top (until you get to fancy patterns of course). For doing it on the cheap I recommend spending well on the fabric, and then using the industrial zip ties as boning (its cheap, and you just use scissors to cut/round the ends) because as long as you have enough vertical tension to stop the fabric rolling or shifting up and down, you can stiffen corsets with pretty much anything. And the industrial zip ties work out cheaper than the cheap plastic boning that warps but somehow don't really warp themselves. Or if you want to spend some more you can look into synthetic whalebone (doesn't warp) or steel boning (I recommend narrower boning, just use more of it more evenly spaced if you require a corset larger than a 28" closed waist size, the 7mm wide isn't quite as flexible as the 5mm and for sitting you'll want some flexibility). Side Note: I'm obsessed with corsets and corset making so may be a little bit biased in recommending you to go for it if interested. Oh and other than Mystic City Corsets and Timeless Trends, I can recommend Restyle.pl if they have anything in your size in stock. I personally LOVE their CU model of corsets as it works well for my already hourglass body, but it also looks really good on others too. And they are very cheap (all of mine from them have cost less than £40 each) but the quality is actually very good, nearly comparable to some of my custom corsets which cost me closer to £400. I've been super impressed with them actually. And they don't use crappy rusty re-purposed metal in their corsets like the ones from Corset Story did even though they're closer to the same price point (corset story at least used to do buy 3 for £90, but they were terrible fit and I took them apart to at least use the supplies to find rusty sheet metal cut into strips with holes drilled at one end, some half painted, some gritty, just awful, probably tetanus containing bones).
In How to be a Tudor by Ruth Goodman she mentions that there were secondhand shops for used clothing where you could go and buy last season's fashions, and then once middle class customers were done with them they would go to the working class, then the lower class, etc. She also said these were the only sources of ready made clothing at the time.
Royal & noble castoffs were given to their retainers, too - getting a used garment or other items from Queen Elizabeth wouldn’t have been anything to sniff at; it would have been made with the best materials, would have been worked on by professional embroiderer, & would have been worth more than a shiny penny...
That's not accurate. Even the very rich would make their clothes over multiple times before handing it down, and fashions did not have a yearly cycle yet at that time.
Jon Townsend, another CZcamsr, did a video about a man's diary from the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. This man often lived in abject poverty -- even selling himself into indentured servitude at one point. One of this man's overriding concerns was fashion. He was a firm believer that "the clothes make the man," and he was always trying to get a better outfit for himself. As Karolina points out, you could often tell a person's class by what he or she wore. Thus, it was critical to people that they not dress like a person of lower class or status. The notion that the importance of fashion is a modern concept is a fallacy.
@@cannibalisticrequiem OP didn't mean that appearance isn't still important, they meant that the idea's been around a long time and isn't a recent phenomenon
@@josiec9249: They certainly TRY to wear ripped clothes these days. They actually pay extra for ripped and faded clothes. But evidently, THAT'S the fashion. It is certainly a first-world fashion. Only people who are rich enough can afford to ress like a hobo and call it "fashionable."
Watching really reminds me of stories in my family. I come from African American sharecroppers, and we weren't wealthy historically, but we always valued dressing well and found ways to be very fashion forward through thrifting, saving, bartering etc. My gran made my mom's prom dress, gloves, coat, etc. And it wasn't unusual. People of working class or poorer means often found ways to carry on and demonstrate values of appearance and pride.
"Hi. Today we're talking about poor people..." I feel so validated. Even when I was homeless, you couldn't tell by looking at me. I kept myself and my clothes clean and tidy. And a couple of nicer things were for job interviews.
@@amberkat8147 Me too, and all the people I know also frequently enjoy going bare foot where it can be done. Often I see total strangers as well as my friends not wearing socks in shoes they probably should be, and obvi getting blisters
I mean if you go back to like 50 or 60 years ago here in Ireland or in the UK and I guess US, there was this concept of Sunday Best, which is the "good" clothes worn for Sunday Church Service and other occasions. People really invested into this, even if the rest of the week, they wore rags, they were keen to look good at such occasions. I guess history probably has countless examples of similar concepts. Now with fast fashion, people can look fashionable all the time but the catch is that the quality just isn't there and it's often obvious. My grandmother use to say that the fact people don't invest in clothes anymore means poorer people don't even get that one day to shine anymore because the quality isn't there and they were similar stuff through out the week now.
I imagine that this is universal. I dare to say every culture has their 'sunday best' like a traditional folk costume or just a nice suite. In Finland we have our own word for it that is quite similar: pyhävaatteet-meaning like sunday best, holyday clothes, sabbath clothes. Today it just means nice looking clothes you wouldnt wear to do something dirty (so basically the same)
That Sunday Clothing stuff is kinda still relevant. At least in rural Austria where I'm from, my grandma always told me I have to put on my best clothes for church. And funnily enough also when going to Vienna. Because you the people can't think that we're farmers, no we must look good. In Israel however this concept is still reeeeally relevant. Like people really dress up for shabbat, it's crazy. Even if you forget what day of the week it is, on Friday you know that shabbat is coming up because every little girl has a giant bow on their head and every man wears half a bear on theirs, I kinda love it
That´s totally true, in Spain we still say "vestir de Domingo", this meaning wearing as neat and elegant as you can , and my grandmas, my mother, my autns, and all the men in the family (all very poor) had that sense of dressing properly for sunday mass or any festivities. We also have an amazingly variety of regional garments... each province have their own.
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Yes, not all countries associated it with church service, but the idea of keeping the best suit or dress for the day off, be it Friday, Saturday or Sunday is widespread across countries. In some Spanish speaking countries you have the expression "traje de domingo" or "vestido dominguero" meaning the special suit or dress worn in the special occasion (going out for a stroll on Sundays, the day off). Nowadays it may sound weird, but back then, with a lot less options for entertainment, and many of them being too expensive for the majority of the population, going out for a stroll and a picnic in a park or boulevard was THE thing to do on Sundays. And the way to socialise with other people too. Particularly if you were single and open to offers.
In my town there are plenty of men who go to church in their cleanest pair of overalls because that is their best clothes. Poor children go to church in their cleanest hoodie and nicest pair of jeans.
I remember reading a little journal snippet about Norwegian folk clothing, written by a German scholar in the early 1800's. Every summer there would be a big market in Oslo, called Kristiania at the time, and people would be coming from all over the country to sell homemade things, food, etc. He found it fascinating how you could tell how remote people's home villages were by how outdated their clothing silhouettes were. The people from the area around Oslo were dressed in fashion that was just a decade out of date, and then further north towards the lake Mjøsa, they would be 20 years out of date, and then some people from really remote mountainous areas would be wearing clothing that was as much as 40 years out of date. That's not to say their clothing was bad, it was beautifully embroidered and had interesting colours, but the silhouette was very oldfashioned.
@@uglukthemedicineman5933 I wish I could remember, sorry. It's in one of the many books I have about Norwegian folk costumes, but it's gonna take some searching to find it.
In ‘Little Town on the Prairie’, by Laura Ingall Wilder, she writes about sewing a wardrobe for her sister Mary to take to college back east. Round hoop skirts had gone out of fashion and the bustle was well in, but they put enough material in the skirt of Mary’s best dress so that it would fit over a big round hoop skirt if hoops came back in. Just a neat example of how poor/working class people would sew their new clothes with alterations in mind so that the dress could be used for decades. This was in November 1882.
During my University days, I always dressed 'up' for final exams. The greater the trauma of the semester - the better the exam day look. I tried to create at least that element of control over my stinking life! During the 40's, my mom 'turned' her dresses when they became faded or a bit worn looking. She taught me how when I began sewing. (You take it apart and re-stitch it with the inside out. This is only effective, of course, on wovens, not prints. But it can extend the life of a wool or linen suit by years.)
Hah I thought it was just me. I ALWAYS dressed up for exam days and then felt super overdressed when everyone was in sweats 😅 to this day I'm sure it gave me a mental boost though
_"Traditional_ _rural_ _clothing_ _of_ _the_ _poor_ _people"_ Listen, I'll be honest with you. I don't know what the algorithm was thinking. I watch videos about funk music and philosophy, but that line just instantly made you the meme queen of my heart
@@kari8187 Right now? Hilary Putnam, Jürgen Habermas, Mary Midgley, Angelika Krebs and Lisa Herzog, to name a few. I'm not religious but the whole "liberal" (but actually pretty reactionary/conservative) new-atheism thing with Hitchens, Harris, Dennett as a social commenter, and more recently Peterson and Shapiro, and so on, I am very strongly not a fan of.
@@ticfortea reactionary conservatives, woo that’s an interesting take. As long as it’s not far left , far right or intersectionalism I’m interested, I may look at a few you’ve mentioned.
When my grandparents moved from Poland to Canada, they were very poor. But babcia was a seamstress and she made her own dresses and dressed very elegantly, so much that people thought she was a lady of reputable wealth.
i've always heard that, in addition to bust support, a well-fitting corset offers good back support, which working women probably needed. that, and they were brought up wearing them and thinking that they were as normal as we think bras are today. so i'm not surprised that they wore corsets even if they were poor.
Yep, and if women were too poor to buy a corset on their own, they often pooled resources together so they could buy one person a corset and then do it again for the next person who needed one, like insurance.
@Furienna i feel like back support would have been more preffered thus enduring slight breathing obstruction, back problems wouldve been even more severe back in the day
@@erinys2 yes! that said, i've been viennese waltzing in a corset twice and experienced zero breathing obstruction whatsoever. the corsets were both made to measure, so they're more like a perfect comforting hug than ermergererhmwearinersuppertgermernt. in fact, my corsets are more comfortable than any off-the-shelf bras i own.
I know this is a very frail connection, but I shower and dress up nice when I'm sick even though I want to stay in bed in pajamas all day and that makes me feel a bit better. Doesn't cure a flu, but raises morale nonetheless
I work Hospice, which is end of life comfort care. It’s amaZing how much getting ready and feeling pampered and put together can make a person feel so much better, even when they’re too sick to get out of bed. ♥️♥️♥️
This is funny to me. When I have a chance to hole up at home all day (yay!) I get up and change from my nightgown into flannel pants and a tee shirt! That makes me feel good all day! :)
@@nikkicedrone9311 It seems that's what a lot of people living above the poverty line, or aren't working-class poor don't realize about "poor people who don't look/dress poor". For one, you (general you) don't know how they got it. It could've been a birthday/holiday gift from a loved one, or they could've bought it secondhand or severely marked down in a sale, or they could've saved up for it. Secondly, it doesn't really matter how they got it, because that nice thing, or nice clothes can make a world of difference to their self-esteem and morale. It's like lecturing people for buying Starbucks coffee instead of saving/investing their money elsewhere. Small luxuries like Starbucks can boost their morale, and allows them to feel good. "Poor" people are allowed to have nice things.
Emma Watson should have listened to your lecture about corsets before going "Ew I'm not gonna wear a corset because I'm a strong indipendent woman" when filming Beauty and the Beast!
@gidlegendary Yeah. I love Emma as a Harry Potter fan and I think shes an amazing actress. But yes supposedly (I don't have any sources) she refused to wear a corset (they actully would have been stays)
I love Emma so much but her bella yellow dress was soooooo disappointing it had no "wow" factor a princess dress should have and I agree she could have stuck with not wearing a super tight corset. It's simply a bra. Some people choose to wear it to make the waist look extremely small but you don't always have to do it. It simply makes the dress look better and more authentic
@@stutir.5242 She would have been wearing 18th-century stays anyway, which were not tightened nearly as much as later 19th-century corsets were. Stays were basically only tightened enough to provide the correct amount of support.
When you put it that way, it’s actually demeaning not to wear a corset playing historical roles. Women were able to kick ass even though they had to wear very confining garments. That deserves respect. Belle can be a rebel and a scientist while wearing a corset or stays. And real women did that. Wearing a corset doesn’t discount the many contributions many women made while wearing them. I don’t know if I’m making sense but looking at it through a modern lens and dismissing corsets or stays as unfeminist is a very reductive way of thinking
Øath Ghost also, how easily you could sew big pockets and fit like, I don’t know, a loaf of bread with you. Long skirts can be very practical as well in some contexts.
I agree long skirts can be comfy, but I like sitting cross-legged and my parents will tell me it's "not proper" to sit like that in a skirt, and I might get funny looks from people. Also what if I need to climb a tree? Wouldn't want to have people looking up my skirt...
This explains why I wear my most over the top outfits when I’m depressed or having chronic illness flare ups. It really does boost your mood even if you are staying in bed all day and nobody will see you.
This links so well into one of my main historical interests which is the daily life (incl clothes) of the first convicts in early colonial Australia! When you're literally on the other side of the world, how long does it take for European fashions to arrive? Sydney remained an essentially pre-industrial town for a long time after the industrial revolution happened in Europe, how did that affect fashion? Without factories and the resources of even rural Europe, how did you acquire new clothes and fabrics? There were undoubtedly convict-specific fashions (eg there's a great drawing of a convict woman in a giant black hat, like an American pilgrim's hat!), but I'm so interested in learning more about them
I often wonder how our early settlers coped with the heat & humidity. I look at early photos & think how difficult it was to maintain a neat & clean appearance but they seemed to do it. Thinking about all the layers though - corsets & petticoats, stockings & gloves! The men didn’t have it much easier though, with 3piece suits & ties. It really is a fascinating topic.
CinnamonCari No - I'm not really into horror! I just watched the trailer, it'd be interesting to know about the research that went into the costuming. I can't find anything online, unfortunately, and I can't claim any serious knowledge about Tasmania and the later convict period so I can't really judge for myself!
Ann Em I wonder that all the time! The best theory (for Sydney up till the time of Macquarie) I can come up with given visual primary sources and my own surmising is that women wore basically late-18th century working class clothing and they would've adapted it in the same way women working in the fields in summer in England would have - tucking up minimal layers of petticoats, no jackets over stays, and of course natural fibres breathe well. My mental picture is pretty similar to the Crows Eye production 18th century summer hay cutting video, if you've seen that! But I'm still looking into it, so that's only a half-baked theory.
"I'm trying to cover like the whole fashion history here, so it's not easy, okay, it's one video." xDDDD Yeah, and you did well, people really tend to ignore the obvious. Like, we nowadays are not so different from our ancestors really...
My grandma said the same after the war when they had nothing left and she was a child. She was happy that her mother was good in making dresses for her and my granny said that despise the poverty and the hunger etc her mother made her dresses as fashionable and outstanding as possible. Because looking good was everything. Like today...
After a year of feeling like garbage in pajamas and sweatpants, where I end up wearing my nicest clothes to go to the grocery store, your statement about looking nice boosting your morale really hits home. I’ve been joking that it’s like Sally Hawkins in Shape of Water wearing heels to her job as a janitor, but instead it’s me ironing my button down shirt before picking up my meds at CVS. Its amazing how much it makes me feel like a Person again.
this is my favorite part about this channel - you don’t just do vintage fashion and period clothes you take a wholistic look at the ppl of that era and especially at the working class- the ppl that would’ve been you or me
Like me as a brand new mom working at Macy’s (nice $$$ department store) even though I was so much lower pay-class than my clientele that shopped there, there’s still a certain level of looking fashionable and classy you had to look in order to keep your job in good standing and keep customers happy.
Same with being a legal secretary. Really low pay working for rather rich bosses & clients, I was expected to "look the part" and even act it too, so here I am with a clunker car eating tuna every day for lunch but dressed like a million bucks. I couldn't afford my clothes new - I bought them all at consignment stores. I got really good at hair, makeup & nails too - I did them myself. I got so comfortable with this, I had NO PROBLEM splurging on expensive fragrances. Chanel Coco every day!!
Yes, Debora, I still wear a bra while I'm out tending to the horses so I have a feeling that 150 years ago I'd be wearing a corset to do the same things.
Thank you I’ve been researching late 1800s up until 1901 fashion for a working class immigrant family that would live in a city in America and I have been trying to research, and it’s hard to not find the “lavish stereotypical Victorian/ Edwardian outfit” particularly the women’s clothing. So these types of videos help give me a sense of finding what I’m looking for and are very helpful.
This video just made me wonder what the "Sunday best" of a lower class family. Like what is the fancyest clothes they were aloud to wear by law, maybe for special occasions? Or is that not a thing and they just wear what they always wear?
I think generally, when you made a new shirt (or bought one second hand, or were given one) the shirt you already have becomes your workwear and the 'new' shirt is now your sunday best.
@Tina Yael Severinovna M. yes that sounds similar to my dad, growing up in post-war england. he had two sets of clothes, sunday best, and school uniform. he didn't really own other clothes.
Sumptuary laws mostly dissipated by the Renaissance, so afterward different classes could merge fashions. Even during the sumptuary law eras, the poorer classes would save their nicest clothing [so better fabrics, maybe more up to date, etc] for special occasions or church just like today.
Thank you for this! It's such an intriguing topic and something that's not often talked about. Could you do a video on Polish folk costume too? Or just traditional folk wear in general. I think it would be interesting to juxtapose folk wear and the fashion of a certain era.
I watched a feature related to the movie, ‘Perfume’ & how they decided to dress Laure (Rachel Hurd-Wood’s character) in more fashionable/ Parisian style, to show her socially mobile & socially aspirant father (played by the late Alan Rickman)- but there’s a village party, where her costume is more in-line with the folk dress of the region. I would really love it, if period movies/ shows could think about things like cultural aspects, to give the story a greater ‘body’, as it were- & not just homogenise times & countries into single ‘looks’. It’s not like there isn’t artwork & other references out there, to intimate the kind of variety there was.
Yas! I love seeing people recreating middle to upper class fashions, but I prefer recreating the more practical looks of poverty because no matter what century I was destined to be born into, my default will always be the equivalent of jeans and a Tshirt.
What you say in this video is so true. Poor people do care/did care about fashion. My grandmother had to start working at a factory when she was 14 years old in the 1930‘s. And all of her life she was very particular about fashion and appearance. She would refuse to leave the house before everything sat in place the way it was supposed to. And I mean everything. From head to toe. Thank you for not forgetting poor People.
They don't look comfortable today either! I heard the women going down the red carpet will sometimes wear 2 or 3 different layers of shapewear in order to fit into their designer gown.
No one who wears high heels is ever comfortable. And even if you’re in great shape, if you gain some extra muscle your clothes won’t fit the way you want which means you’re wearing the modern version of corsets ie shapewear!
Love, love, love this video! Thank you for making it. Working class history doesn't get enough attention. A couple things I've found as someone interested in history but not nearly as experienced... - Besides clothes, part of medieval Europe also had laws against people of certain social classes eating certain foods or eating too much quantity of food - they claimed that a coarser diet was more suitable for someone doing rougher work, but there's a possible secondary reason that the better-off non-nobles (like wealthier merchants) were imitating the upper class lifestyle and making the nobility angry. So your point about the lower class wanting to be fashionable and imitate the upper is completely valid and goes beyond even fashion. - I read an article about European Renaissance fashion and how some periods/paintings depict those pinned on/generally detachable outer sleeves. I think the painting at 3:44 shows that? The article suggested that this particular fashion trend might've been really helpful for the working class to stretch their wardrobe. I haven't looked into the male side - this was mostly women's fashion...But they could potentially use different sleeves with a base outfit to change the look, wash sleeves that were soiled without washing the entire garment, and perhaps even go without outer sleeves if needed, more like depicted at 5:23 and the woman on the left at 9:51. I think it was a theory, not anything proved, but it was interesting.
I work as an occupational therapist in a rehabilitation hospital. At work I didn't always pay a lot of attention in makeup and jewlery (depending on my mood), especially when I wear mostly casual clothes because to job is pretty physical. Now during the Coronavirus, having to put a mask and gloves all day long and also wearing long scrub pants and not just a white coat (which now I need to button it without an option to leave it open with a nice top underneath), I suddenly started to put mascara every day and put on a nice necklace to peek from my white coat. Even when I simply go to the grocery store I noticed I started to care more about my outfit then before. I can really relate to the desire to look good (and feel better) in times of a crisis, stress and uncertainty.
I like to think about the present when wondering about the past, because we are not that different. Like we have poor people today, I am a poor person. Plenty of my friends are poor. And we all dress normally and are trying our best to enjoy life beyond working for a laughable wage. And we all have those few pieces that are a little bit more expensive and make us feel good. In the past (mainly thinking about 19th cent) poor people also had their work clothes and their Sunday clothes which were usually the best. They had little money but they still sometimes bought relatively expensive things because they also liked luxury just as we do. Poverty is awful but not every peasant was starving to death just like not every worker today is starving.
I feel like everyone deserves a bit of luxury in their lives, regardless of their money situation. I feel like a little bit of luxury can make a person feel better and is a good distraction too. It's nice to just treat yourself and have a jolly good time with your life! :D Even when things are tough and the worst, everyone should have a taste of luxury and be allowed to enjoy it.
@@ReptilianTeaDrinker (I feel like everyone deserves their basic needs met without conditions so they can work to actually benefit the world and people around them and not to toil at a pointless job that only enriches the 1% and then maybe we can all have nice things that make us happy)
Clothes weren't terribly expensive in the past, but food was very expensive, comparatively speaking, so most of a household's income would go on keeping everyone fed. Clothing was a lot more modular too, with separate sleeves, collars etc so you could just buy parts, or swap them up for a different look.
YESSSSSSSSSSSS! There have been maybe 2 historic clothing/living history professionals out there who have even mentioned this topic in an informed way! One of them is Ruth Goodman, she's on a quest to find extant garments and literature of actual clothing worn by "regular" folks :0) Hooray you!!
Interesting... My gran told me about staining legs with tea and drawing lines down the back of legs to give the semblance of stockings! Do more about this please x
@@cassif19 I was probably unclear, so let me be more straight. I'd love it if nipples and hanging breasts were not considered as being messy or trying to attract attention and just simply our normal bodies considered normal and not always getting special attention (like guys whistling or women judging you as a slut simply because you're walking down the street)
As a historian I really appreciate how you outline your videos. The content could easily be a thesis, book, or even just a paper for a history class. Bravo 👏🏻
This is was interesting! I love how you explain everything. But I’m waiting for the day you accidentally slip up and say something like “I remember in [year] my friend wore _____” and out yourself as a time traveler
I was just reading Jane Austen’s letters and she mentions to her sister Cassandra about unpicking a variety of their garments so they can be remade into something more fashionable.
@@crowseagull Yup. And turning a dress was also a thing. Because many fabrics were pretty on two sides and not just one you could take your faded dress and turn the pattern inside out so it looks good again. That won't work with printed fabrics of course, but the single colours would be fine.
We need the tutorials since we don't teach even basic sewing anymore. There are people who would not know what to do with a spool of thread, a needle, a button, and a shirt needing the button.
That’s how trends get out of fashion. The top class things are downgraded throughout the classes until so many people have them, they’re not special anymore. Sounds logical, but it’s the point of fashion, be ahead of everyone else
I started setting my hair back in December and have already made it a near nightly habit. I got such good reactions when I had put together hair I can totally see a broke ass farmgirl in the Great Depression tearing up an old rag just so she can set her hair.
I remember reading that sumptuary laws were actually quite difficult to enforce. Apparently punishment usually just involved paying a fine and as the laws were just as much about the distinctions between royalty and aristocracy and aristocracy and commoners than rich and poor, many wealthy merchants and their wives were willing to pay the fine imposed by sumptuary regulations and just carry on wearing the 'illegal' clothes. It was almost a form of taxation in their view.
Před 4 lety+3
I guess if you're rich you can afford breaking the law, not much have changed
I know you already mapped A LOT of fashion history (thank you for that ❤), and I think for the future you can avoid comments "what about the poor" just by adding one minute to the video, where you show us "the poor", more casual clotes (it isn´t ment to be critical, just an idea). Thank you for your work!
Kathryn Vincent I once saw a dress, I think it was in an online museum or something- it had clearly been originally Edwardian, with the white linen & lace, the high neckline- but the skirt had been altered into a shorter & slimmer fit, the sleeves were also slim-fitting... but it was the belt that really gave it away; the rhinestones were in an Art Deco shell pattern: someone had made over the dress during the Great Depression.
Thank you for this thoughtful, educational and entertaining video. So well done! I loved learning about the history, and appreciated that you included some personality in the delivery as well.
I’m early wow. Please make a video about Anne With An E. It takes place in late 1890s (& future seasons would be in early 1900s). Love your videos, thanks!
Clare Maloney they cancelled it for no reason but it seems like it would be back. I mean lots of people including Ryan Reynolds and Sam smith, want it back :).
I love that you discuss this, and how thoroughly! You are spot on with everything you say; you are so diplomatic. I am a big Laura Ingalls Wilder fan, she wrote the Little House on the Prairie set of books, about growing up between 1870-1885. She talks a lot about fashion, and how even though they were Poor, there was still always some woman with a Godey's Ladies book of fashion in the area that they could borrow and make their dresses from. They definitely cared. She records the dresses that she and her Ma made in the late 1870.s to mid 1880.s as being just what you see in fashion plates, with lace at the ends of three quarter sleeves and around a square neck. Then later, high collars with a pelisse and a twelve inch ruffle just brushing your shoes. You should check out Little Town on the Prairie by Laura Ingalls Wilder. She describes several of the dresses made in the early 1880.s by Poor women. These Happy Golden Years describes the dresses they made more toward the middle of that decade. Either way, yes they definitely cared, about their appearance, to the point that during a spell of crop failure and famine in the early to mid 1870.s, she and her sister didn't go to school for a whole year. What she didn't say but was recorded in local history is that, that in that time, her family and her family's clothes were so poor and ragged that they wouldn't be seen in public. For shame, I imagine. Yes, they definitely cared. Thank you for bringing this up!
You dress well as a way to keep yourself up. Ya know, a way to make yourself feel better. It's also about avoiding being targeted by police or guardsmen by making yourself look not destitute. Which is still an issue to this day btw, beggars and homeless people are a target for lawmen. Help your local beggars.
Really nice topic to discuss.It is so hard for museums to find working class clothing from a long while ago,as so many people would keep reworking the fabric into other garments blankets etc..It is always a pleasure to hear you talk about historical fashion .You must study paintings quite well.They tell so much,and often the artist will put little details that tell a silent story.I hope that you will have a wonderful life doing what you enjoy researching and creating!
I actually really loved this, I always like to research different outfits from different time periods for different projects but I can barely ever find stuff that normal working class people used to war
This was a really interesting video! Thank you for trying to cram so much info into such a short timespan. Would love to see more like this, such as what elements would change depending on class, how many different garments they would wear and to what events/social gatherings, and how other fashion laws impacted the masses!
Would you be interested in loosely organizing a 2020 poor/working woman sewing challenge/bee, Karolina ? I mean, gorgeous dresses are gorgeous, but really appreciate how you've tried to make sure that the many non-rich and working class and poor women don't get overlooked. Maybe it would be a unique sewing experience to try to call forth our creativity in this way. It could be pretty loose "rules", no deadline needed, even, plus a hashtag so we can all see all the great work on Instagram or something. I bet other costubers and historical costume enthusiasts would be glad to share it around and even participate. It's wonderful that we can wear whatever we like, save up for amazing fabrics we couldn't have before, etc., but most of us still aren't Rockefellers. It'd be nice to honor our working foremothers, too.
I would love something like that! It's hard to find resources for common people's clothing, though. It doesn't even have to be poor people's clothing - even the working people's fashions are harder to find info on, regardless of social standing.
I think there are some resources around from maybe SCA people for medieval, and then there is art for the last couple centuries. But Karolina gives us a good idea of how to start-a little behind the times, maybe remaking from a different garment handed down, simpler fabrics. And then we can imagine also that a working woman would have a petticoat or two, but not a full crinoline, for example. If we did this we could pool resources and chat about it. :-) It would be cool to hear everyone's thought process on why they made certain choices.
Something that keeps coming up when we talk about women's fashion throughout history - women in sex work. It seems like they had their own influences on fashion trends in one way or another (either what to do, or what to avoid at all costs). I would be interested in understanding the history there!
@@mclaire9447 I think this misses the nuance of my comment and the nuance of sex work today (and in general). While it's certainly true that period sex workers are and have been highly stereotyped in movies and media, I think it would be really interesting to learn where these stereotypes originated. Were these stereotypes as persistent then as they are now? What did life and fashion really look like for sex workers? Keep in mind that sex work doesn't necessarily only involve prostitution. There's so much more to unpack there. As for sex work being a desperate situation, while this is true for countless women in history (I by no means want to gloss over the obvious hardships they faced) it should be pointed out that this has differed depending on culture and time period. There are also women who very happily work in the sex industry, and wouldn't have it any other way.
I can't remember the name of the movie now, but frockflicks the blog picked it apart (for good reason) that was about a famous courtisane who in the movie was dressed in flowy dresses that were more or less just strips of fabric vaguely resembling ancient greek-ish chitons etc. But those dresses were only ever worn in portraits for effect, not in the daily lives. The courtisanes would have dressed exactly the same as the other women, with high collars and dark colours, but the director nixed that and made the costume designer do the fantasy dresses instead because those were sexier.
Could you do more detailed videos on poor women’s fashion? I really like all your fashion content but I think this is the video I’ve found most interesting. It would make a great series!
I'm currently reading a book that takes place in the late 19th century, so all of these things are very apparent and were very interesting to learn! It's always interesting to learn about the perspectives of people from different eras and places! Excellent video :)
Thank you for your dedication. It is always pleasure to watch your videos as you have not only amazing historical fashion skills but also deep overall knowledge of eras.
![Why Do We Act Like People In The Past Were Stupid? [RANT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rhCYhlxlp04/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Do We Act Like People In The Past Were Stupid? [RANT]](/img/tr.png)
"Poverty always had different types of shapes, colors and shades"
*50 Shades of Poor*
Gugunet26 🤣 best comment, made my day
You won 🤣
Andro mache seriosly...? Dude, this is not the time
Best fusion :)
Okay, you win. LOL
*"Today we're talking about poor people"*
Why do I feel called out
Yeah... me too. :p
Yeah, finally a video which could be about me
Same
Relatable
Well I feel called out bc I am poor
In Downton Abbey, the costume designers touched on the whole ‘working class wearing slightly out of date clothes’ thing. If you watch carefully, you can see Lady Mary wearing an outfit in one season, and then Anna (her maid), is wearing it in the next season/a few years later! I always thought that was such a clever little touch from the costuming team.
Mary's class often gave their unwanted outfits to their staff. It was probably less noticable with men.
One thing I noticed is Mary had one dress she woremore than once which is atypical of TV shows. Of course the lead costum designer did state DA's wardrobe was one of the most expensive since many pieces were archived originals of the period.
I rewatch Downton Abbey every day to notice all the details (hey), and because of the men wearing proper White and Black Tie. Even with a huge budget, the females wear the same dinner dress every now and then, possibly due to restrictions and limitations. Also Mrs. Hughes still wears a corset in the 1920's, and Daisy stopped wearing them after the war I think. Also Lady Grantham's long sleeved shirts with high collars like in the movie trailer... loved that.
@@mikeoxmaul45 where can I watch Downtown Abbey?
@@wellajoysocorin6905 I think it's on prime video
@@wellajoysocorin6905 there's one on PBS.
I could point you to some 1080p downloads... but they're very easy to find. 😉
1 like = 1 farmer's son i'll flirt with not wearing a corset
SCANDALOUS!
farmersonly.com
rofl yess, i'm in
You are so fired.
Oh my! You scandalist!!
Do poor people live or do they just go to work and suffer? - rich people
I mean, I just go to work and suffer, but sometimes I work and suffer while wearing lipstick and a new shirt
Seriously! It reminds me of the 19th Century protest song, "Bread and Roses", about how working people are still human and still need art and beauty in their lives. Looking as nice as you could and feeling good about how you look isn't a new thing, and a lower-class woman in the 1700s would still have felt good stepping out in a dress she'd altered to make it look new (with the extra pride in her work!) or that was new to her.
@@knitwit1912 "bread for all, and roses, too!" still true today
i LOVE you for that
Isn't making me wealthy satisfying enough? What do they really even need food for? Their pride for me should sustain them!
Imagine future generations thinking we all dressed like Kim Kardashian.
Or that everyone got surgeries everywhere
"In the 2020's, everyone wore crop tops, heavy makeup and had a fake tan"
My reaction to this can be summed up as
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH NONONO
misscatalina711 kinda sexist but go off I guess
Please no
Imagine being the first rando to walk around in a gigantic collar that you made by yourself out of oats on your tiny farm and then some rich bastard has the gall to get some laws made against you.
My God! That women is wearing silk. How did she get? Why does she even think she can wear it? I must make laws so no one will ever mistake her old silk for us rich folks clothing.
Rich people have such fragile egos :')
Imagine being so stylish that you break the law with your hand-made fit. That's such a flex.
Not in those days. Today, we think in terms of social mobility and that someone with the necessary savvy, gumption, and luck can improve their lot. The people yarking about someone acting above their station are -- in fiction -- jealous and envious and resentful of the one trying to do better in life. Back then, your class was as immutable as farting, and you were expected to behave and dress in certain ways. Those sumptuary laws were attempts to maintain the visual markers of class when things changed enough to make it seem necessary.
@@biblicallyaccuratecockroach This isn't even the weirdest thing. In england, many peope still use a style of knitting that is slower and more awkward simply cause the rich people didn't want to use the same technique as the poor people. The poor people then took the style up too and now there's a different style of knitting to mainland europe that's just, slower.
“Today we’re talking about poor people”
Me, a 12th century serf: 👀
Best comment
Lol
Where did you learn to read, then?
Witch, witch. Get that witch
Sometimes I really think she is a real time traveler.
Because she is
Her, Bernadette, and Cathy 😂😂😂
Can I get Subscribers for some reason questionmark? She’s obviously the 25th Doctor
more like an immortal humanoid monster who tries to fit in in current times, but was born a couple hundred years ago. That's just wha ti think
Maybe she is a companion of doctor in secret..u might never know..or she maybe is doctor herself.. WHO knows? 😉
Still to this day people who know nothing about being poor make the most f- up assumptions about those who do. For example, clothing donations. First, if you donate make sure the clothing is ok to wear still, make sure it's not stained, it's clean and not ripped. Donated clothing that does not suffice gets trashed, so donating it is redundant. Second, consider that woman's and children's clothing get donated the most, so if you want to really help donate men's clothing, specifically shoes in larger sizes are needed when the winter arrives. This goes for other will intentioned donations too, make sure it's good stuff. Poor people deserve nice things too. It all comes down to basic respect of ones humanity, being poor doesn't make you less of a human.
You are totally right! Saw a post going around where someone said: Just give the stuff to homeless people, they don't care about their clothes! As if the guy selling newspapers on the underground in January has the closet space to store a woman's summer dress.
And please donate more fresh vegetables! I had more than enough calories to eat growing up but I had to get some IV vitamins once because I just didn't have access to food that wasn't shelf stable. Canned food is great but when you have an impoverished 13 year old boy literally begging his parents for a dark green salad for months on end then something is wrong . I remember feeling like I needed dark greens like it was a craving from my bones. Once when I did get a bag of spinach I ate it all with some vinager
Treats are nice, but we got a cake almost every week. They're over donated and basic healthy staples are severely under donated
@@persomnus Wow, that's super interesting (and heartbreaking) and very good to know, thank you for sharing!
@@persomnus I'm so sorry you had to grow up like this. My parents were still in university when I grew up, so we were pretty much dirt poor, as well. But the shitty appartment we lived in came with a huge backyard, so my mom grew fruit and vegetables there. We were so lucky! Concerning donations, I think the best thing is always to donate plain money, because the particular organisation probably knows best what's needed at the moment and what they have space for. And if you have vegetables left over, they're probably not that fresh any more. and it's going to be even harder for any NGO to store them.
Fyi, former thrift store manager here...most thrift stores also have a recycle system for clothes past their usable life. It is sold to recyclers who either make things out of them or resell in other places. While those other people deserve nice things too, fabric is used. Insulation and rugs are just some of the recycled uses.
Thanks for doing this. It's frustrating to hear a lot of fashion historians discussing subjects like "scandalous" upper class women wearing "bloomer pants" in the Victorian era when poor European working women ( coal workers, miners, etc) have been wearing pants FOREVER but because of their class it has been overlooked. The "poor" have been at the forefront of useful fashion out of necessity and then once a wealthy person gets a hold of it THEN it matters. Ugh.
My grandmother was a single parent in the 1930s, the depth of the Depression. She lived with her parents and my mom and supported herself and Mom by sewing in a WPA clothing factory. They weren't starving poor, but they were definitely working poor. Grandma skipped meals for six months to get Mom roller skates poor. Looking at the pictures, though.. They were damned well dressed. Grandma made all the clothes for the whole family, from underwear out. The fabric might have been recycled from older clothes, but the styles were as up to date as anyone.
Wow that’s amazing
Handmade clothing (without or without a sewing machine) was obviously the norm until very recently, with the difference between rich and poor being whether they could pay someone to do it for them. Mom, like your mother, grew up during the Depression, but on a farm (so they had plenty of food, but not much else), and they made just about everything themselves. Later on, Mom made about half of her own family's clothing, plus curtains. I learned to sew, and have made a few items for myself, but rarely do any sewing these days other than mending. I think this historical progression is fairly typical, probably because just about everyone has more money now than their equivalents did back then.
It would be so much fun if this were like a series with theme “poor people one century at the time” or am I just a huge historynerd?
Yes, yes and yes! I love it!
That is a great idea
Yes that would be so great!!!
You are a history nerd but so am I😆 that's a fantastic idea
History nerds unite.
"Looking well put together" and the "Look the part" is still so fricking relevant. You wouldn't go to a job interview or a meeting in sweatpants and/or wearing a T shirt with moms spagetti spillt all over it. Well.. you can. BUT Looking well put together gives a good and favorable impression to people who don't know you. In any era.
knees weak
@@fallingcrane1986 arms are heavy
There's vomit on his sweater already
@@JamesGallagher90 To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgettin'
@@hj6507 what he wrote down
Women of past eras were simply genius in making beautiful things out of near nothing.
There was a lady that used to live in my town in the 20’s to 30’s by the name of Elsie, poor as a church mouse, but still wanted to wear the fashionable furs, and instead of waiting for her husband to maybe one day surprise her she spent the winter trapping and skinning dozens of ermine and come spring/summer she had a lovely white fur stole made by her own two hands.
Eternal_Winter87 that’s amazing! I’ve thought about getting furs by hunting since I don’t like or support the fur industry.(They’re cruel now of days) Also I think it’s important to know that you’re taking a life and appreciate the work that goes into it.
@@Megan-ir3ze I understand why you may want to hunt the animals yourself, but I really feel like the golden option is buying fur second hand. I have some lovely leather pieces that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, as a very squeamish vegetarian.
Wow
@@fruitygarlic3601 Yes! I’ve done that with three fur pieces! I would only skin an animal if I find it dead or if I’m harvesting their meat. My rule is to use all of the animal if I’m killing something. Like Native Americans. To me spiritually, it’s a big deal. ✌🏻
Poor ermine gave their lives for vanity!
"What's got you so down?"
"Oh, it's just Margaretta. She...She's not wearing her corset again."
*GASP*
"I know. It's so demoralizing."
tbf, that's also my mom when I refuse to wear a bra lol
I think, if we consider the corset to be the bra of yesterday, many women - especially the big chested ones - would still CHOOSE to wear it. If I didn't have a bra (because they weren't invented yet) I would definitely need to address the problem of boob swag and boob weight. Either with a corset or with some sort of bandage, as they did in ancient Greece for sports. So yeah, I imagine many of these women actually preferred corset to no corset, and simply would tie it less tight for comfort. I certainly would
berlineczka Properly fitted and for general use (not the sort of high-fashion tight-laced, S-curve, etc) and their predecessor, stays, were quite comfortable. They are snug and supportive. They compress the breasts so help redistribute the weight.
Exactly. I would even consider a well-fitted corset a health enhancer - try to slouch with a corset on! :D The spine was probably happy for the support.
I would agree with this, except for certain situations. Am I bending over and doing farming things? Screw it, boobs can hang low. Is it hot as balls today? Maybe not.
*BOOB SWAG*
Poi Lethe corsets protect your lower back when you’re lifting, maids always wore corsets
"ok loomer" I'M YELLIGN
@@nonniperkl6273 wtf?
I really appreciate your comment on Sumptuary laws. That's something a lot of historical fashion fans NEVER talk about. A lot of us get so carried away romanticizing fashion in the old days that we forget that depending on our social class of the time we might not have been allowed to wear those things we enjoy looking at even if we did live back then. Things were prettier clothing wise but it was also more conformist in a lot of ways.
THIS.
Romanticism is heavily increased since fashion nowadays looks completely abominable and disgusting.
The poorest people of the past were more stylish than the richest people in the world of our era.
"Are you poor? Are you poor, Kitty?"
"Hon, do I _look_ poor to you? These sheer curtains were _designed_ to filter light to optimise my beauty as I slumber elegantly on my windowsill!"
I recently read a book, ''The unwomanly face of war'' by Svetlana Alexievich, which is consists entirely of transcripted excerpts from interviews done by the author, where she talks to women who served in the Red Army during WWII. It's an altogether fascinating and powerful read, and there are some stories of clothing as well. Since a lot of the girls were only teenagers when they went to war, they talk about how they started crying when they had to have their hair cut of and how they'd save sugar from their rations to try to use it to set their fringes into something cute as soon as it grew out enough. They'd be handed male uniforms several sizes to big, and do what they could to alter them to look less horrible. They'd use footwraps (square pieces of fabric wrapped around the foot in place of socks) to sew collars or other accessories. One woman got married on the front lines, and made her own wedding dress from whatever was available (parachute, maybe? Or just footwraps). Many of the women say how wonderful it was when, later on in the war, they were actually given female uniforms. And how much of a joy it was to be issued female underwear, instead of men's shirts. Those who could still keep civilian clothing with them might dress up in their old dresses, just among the girls, to get to feel feminine and beautiful just for a little bit.
There's one story, the woman talks about a friend she had at the front lines. The friend told her one day ''I'm going to die in the battle tomorrow, I feel it. Let's go and make them issue us fresh underwear, I don't want to die in these''. And they went and got it, and the next day her friend was killed.
It says something about how important fashion can be. Even in the most horrid if circumstances, starving and freezing in the mud while friends die around you, just being able to wear something nice, something that feels like normal, to remind you that there's a different life.
The underwear bit made me tear up
I bought that book on Audible because it sounds really interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm so glad people are interested! I highly recommend it, as well as the authors other works. I'm reading Second-hand time right now, about what it was like to be a Soviet person when the union collapsed.
Even today it is degrading for women to be handed men's clothes as the standard. For example if you are given work shirts and you can only order from the men's category. There have been some discussions on askamanager.com about that. There is just that sense of "you don't matter you can wear whatever what do you mean it doesn't fit LOL women are so focused on clothes am I right"
@@sweetsandcharades8383 And then some man will be like "why are you complaining? If you want equality you can't have special treatments", but handing a man a women's shirt would be unthinkable. It's almost like the baseline human is considered to be male, and women are shaded and ridiculed for requesting that things be adapted for them the same way they are for men.
"Did poor people wear corsets?"
Do poor people today wear shapewear? Do they wear makeup? Just because someone doesn't "look poor" doesn't mean they aren't struggling. Most people get ready in the morning with the thought that people will be judging them and they need to look the part of whatever role they are trying to play in society. You might think certain clothes or hairstyles aren't practical (or are costly), but being fashionable can do wonders for a person's confidence. Any confidence boost is welcome if you're struggling to make a living.
One time I went into a restaurant ok and like ppl thought I was rich because of what I was wearing but I wasn't I am poor af and shit. Soooo facts tysm.
I live on the poor side of town and everyone just wears hoodies and jeans to school lmao... Besides the few girls who wear shorts, skirts, or dresses and the boys who wear basketball shirts in -4 weather (Fahrenheit) Nobody really cares
it boosts my confidence but im too depressed to care every day
@@staramoth i think everyone dresses like that at school
@@staramoth yeah, that has more to do with school than anything else
So could Cinderella's fairy god mother dress have been illegal?? Puts a whole different angle of that story
omg that's a really good point! I mean technically it doesn't apply because Cinderella IS the true heir to her father's fortune and is NOT supposed to be treated like a peasant but in the eyes of her stepfamily and their 'crowd' that's probably how it'd have looked like... thanks for the anecdote!
No. Cinderella is taking place in about the 1890s by which point sumptuary laws weren't in effect anymore. The height of sumptuary laws was really the high and late middle ages. They were only truly relevant at a time when the difference between a rich burgher's outfits and a noble's outfits were in the cloth and trim since cut was the same.
AdoraBell ...what are you talking about? Cinderella is a fairy tale, it‘s been around for thousands of years. I‘m guessing that you are referring to the style the Disney movie is in, when you say „It takes place around 1890“ but the story is way older than that. And even Disney kept some of the traditional story elements in, so while I doubt that they thought of a specific law, the fact that her dress is WAY above her league, and therefor scandalous is definitely included in the story. (Her stepsisters don‘t even recognize her, because they are not expecting her to ever be able to wear such a dress.)
Depends. There's literally a variant of Cinderella from like 7 BCE Greece, another variant in China called Ye Xian, and a bunch of other settings as well. As far as literary versions go, the oldest one is from/set in Naples, Italy, in 1634. In that incarnation, Cinderella is a prince's daughter, and way above worrying about sumptuary laws. The most popular, French, version has Cinderella as a gentleman's daughter in 1697, so she may or may not be exempt as well.
Of course, all this historical context issues could be more simply solved by 'if she was of a social class to acceptably marry a prince or king, she's probably okay to wear super rich clothes'.
@@randomalienfrommars0567 Probably not, I think - anyone who lived in Cinderella's, and thus her stepsisters', community would presumably know who Cinderella's dad is, who her family is and what class they belong to. Communities were much more closely-knit until relatively recently, everyoneeee was up in each others' business.
Fun fact about those clothing laws that I learned from my theatre history class, in England, the only exception to these laws was the theatre. Because actors had to portray these rich characters on stage, they were allowed to wear the clothing of the rich and rich people would often donate their clothes to the theatre!
I'm always amazed when people think that poor people wouldn't wear corsets. For all intents and purposes its like a bra. Unless, youre at home alone or particularly small breasted, most women wouldn't leave home without a bra. For workers, it also had an additional back support element.
Tbh, im an 65I/30G/30H (Eur/US/UK) and i cant stand bras, even sportswear hurts my ribcage so much! Before I'm finished dressing, putting my hair in a bun, getting my lunch out of the fridge and leaving i want to remove it and often do because fuck that.. but a corset feels lovely!
@@galli0 Yeah, I'm big busted too and bras always dig into my shoulders and rib cage. at least a corset distributes the weight evenly.
And men wore girdles or at least a tight sash for support
BACK SUPPORT, YES. I worked a job when I was 14-15 where I was often at my feet for 4 hours at a go, lifting heavy objects, etc. I had a steel corset then for exactly this purpose - it took some of the strain off my back and made life more comfortable for me.
I am small breasted but I wear a bra. I don't want people staring at my nipples (It happened and it sucks).
Dude, I’d be so pissed if I couldn’t wear my fancy velvet coat from the Goodwill just cause I’m not rich. 😂😂😂
hello, you’re arrested for looking too good
Well sorry to break it to peasant, that velvet coat is a few decades old on fashion, hence why it's at Goodwill.
Try the Hansel of Martorium down Jefferson road for a more high fashion look, but I doubt a peasant girl could enter such an establishment. *Scoff**scoof* 🧐💅👸
I heard in some counties that the sumptuary laws were not closely enforced. Either because they didn't care enough or because they could be "persuaded" to look the other way. No idea if this is true or not, but based on human nature, it sounds like it could be. I can't imagine every law enforcement man wanting to look at everyone's clothes to check they weren't breaking the law (though some would DEFINITELY take extra pains to do just that).
@@SuperMrsMar l can just imagine one guy who doesnt care about the law just ignoring everyone, and a guy who is Javert 2.0 just bursting into peoples home yelling that he wants to see your clothes because he smells fancy clothing in the area.
@@Naharu. 😂😂😂
Yes!
Having milked a cow before, I’ll tell you- it’s probably easier in a corset. Or, a flexible type corset. And much of the working class corsetry was more flexible.
Think stays with cording and whatnot. But having that extra support for your back would actually make things easier, not harder. If I could afford a proper corset, I’d go for it in a second. Because it’s basically a back brace that’s far more attractive, and would also serve as a bra as well. That would be amazing for me- I have a severe spinal condition that means I use a wheelchair, and I’m in a lot of pain all the time. A corset would really help me with that.
So they aren’t anywhere near as uncomfortable or as difficult as it sounds. They were very sensible items that would have helped working class women with working all day, because they would have supported the back in a way that our undergarments simply don’t do anymore.
I love this perspective. I've heard similar things from other women who've tried corsets. Makes me want one too!
@@kenna176 Mystic City Corsets and Timeless Trends are both good corset companies. My Corset Story has a LOT of issues, like using the wrong kind of boning, fit issues, etc. I have two that I wear because of chronic issues from an autoimmune disorder, and they've helped reduce my smaller back injuries a lot.
L M Thanks for the recommendations! I work a desk job, and I know my posture is suffering for it. I'll look into these. Between Morgan Donner & Bernadette Banner, I keep wanting to make my own, which is an AWFUL idea 😂
@@kenna176 Not an awful idea at all, as long as you make mock ups. Most women up until the latter end of the industrial revolution made their own corsets, by hand not machine too. You can certainly do it if you have the patience. I recommend checking out Foundations Revealed who have a free article which teaches you to pattern draft (you just sign up with an email for the full thing I believe. At least you used to.) Then a ton of other free bits too. Then there are subscriptions when they are open. Other than that the Learn To Make Corsets Like A Pro facebook group is great. Full of helpful supportive people who will give you suggestions and help you on your way if you do try. Plus Sew Curvy do some corset patterns which come complete with all the supplies you'd need (other than a sewing machine) to make a corset which are good and Julia might still offer the custom patterns where you submit measurements and she drafts the pattern you buy which takes the tricky bit out. As for the corset construction itself, if you can sew a straight (ish) line then you are good to go. There are lots of seams to sew, but its the same thing each time mostly. One straight line from top to bottom/bottom to top (until you get to fancy patterns of course). For doing it on the cheap I recommend spending well on the fabric, and then using the industrial zip ties as boning (its cheap, and you just use scissors to cut/round the ends) because as long as you have enough vertical tension to stop the fabric rolling or shifting up and down, you can stiffen corsets with pretty much anything. And the industrial zip ties work out cheaper than the cheap plastic boning that warps but somehow don't really warp themselves. Or if you want to spend some more you can look into synthetic whalebone (doesn't warp) or steel boning (I recommend narrower boning, just use more of it more evenly spaced if you require a corset larger than a 28" closed waist size, the 7mm wide isn't quite as flexible as the 5mm and for sitting you'll want some flexibility).
Side Note: I'm obsessed with corsets and corset making so may be a little bit biased in recommending you to go for it if interested.
Oh and other than Mystic City Corsets and Timeless Trends, I can recommend Restyle.pl if they have anything in your size in stock. I personally LOVE their CU model of corsets as it works well for my already hourglass body, but it also looks really good on others too. And they are very cheap (all of mine from them have cost less than £40 each) but the quality is actually very good, nearly comparable to some of my custom corsets which cost me closer to £400. I've been super impressed with them actually. And they don't use crappy rusty re-purposed metal in their corsets like the ones from Corset Story did even though they're closer to the same price point (corset story at least used to do buy 3 for £90, but they were terrible fit and I took them apart to at least use the supplies to find rusty sheet metal cut into strips with holes drilled at one end, some half painted, some gritty, just awful, probably tetanus containing bones).
Alexa Faie Holy shit, thank you!
In How to be a Tudor by Ruth Goodman she mentions that there were secondhand shops for used clothing where you could go and buy last season's fashions, and then once middle class customers were done with them they would go to the working class, then the lower class, etc. She also said these were the only sources of ready made clothing at the time.
Oooooh
So Macy’s, then Plato’s Closet, then Goodwill basically. Except those were the only choices.
Royal & noble castoffs were given to their retainers, too - getting a used garment or other items from Queen Elizabeth wouldn’t have been anything to sniff at; it would have been made with the best materials, would have been worked on by professional embroiderer, & would have been worth more than a shiny penny...
That's not accurate. Even the very rich would make their clothes over multiple times before handing it down, and fashions did not have a yearly cycle yet at that time.
@@genli5603 - These days, fashions have a cycle of months, which is why so much is pure crap.
cat:
meme mom: *ArE yOU pOoR??*
Jon Townsend, another CZcamsr, did a video about a man's diary from the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. This man often lived in abject poverty -- even selling himself into indentured servitude at one point. One of this man's overriding concerns was fashion. He was a firm believer that "the clothes make the man," and he was always trying to get a better outfit for himself. As Karolina points out, you could often tell a person's class by what he or she wore. Thus, it was critical to people that they not dress like a person of lower class or status.
The notion that the importance of fashion is a modern concept is a fallacy.
I was thinking of that, too! It's a really great video.
Not really. You're expected to look "nice" and wear clean clothes to job interviews. That plays a part in how you get a job.
@@cannibalisticrequiem OP didn't mean that appearance isn't still important, they meant that the idea's been around a long time and isn't a recent phenomenon
I'd argue that fashion was more important then, than it is now. People 'try' to look poor now!
@@josiec9249: They certainly TRY to wear ripped clothes these days. They actually pay extra for ripped and faded clothes. But evidently, THAT'S the fashion. It is certainly a first-world fashion. Only people who are rich enough can afford to ress like a hobo and call it "fashionable."
Watching really reminds me of stories in my family. I come from African American sharecroppers, and we weren't wealthy historically, but we always valued dressing well and found ways to be very fashion forward through thrifting, saving, bartering etc. My gran made my mom's prom dress, gloves, coat, etc. And it wasn't unusual. People of working class or poorer means often found ways to carry on and demonstrate values of appearance and pride.
"Hi. Today we're talking about poor people..." I feel so validated.
Even when I was homeless, you couldn't tell by looking at me. I kept myself and my clothes clean and tidy. And a couple of nicer things were for job interviews.
Corsets are like socks. When people catch you not wearing any, you'll be the weirdo of the town
More like a bra, I think
@@sonce-traven lmao but actually that's true
Um, what? I avoid wearing shoes and socks whenever possible.
@@amberkat8147 i have news for you
@@amberkat8147
Me too, and all the people I know also frequently enjoy going bare foot where it can be done. Often I see total strangers as well as my friends not wearing socks in shoes they probably should be, and obvi getting blisters
I mean if you go back to like 50 or 60 years ago here in Ireland or in the UK and I guess US, there was this concept of Sunday Best, which is the "good" clothes worn for Sunday Church Service and other occasions. People really invested into this, even if the rest of the week, they wore rags, they were keen to look good at such occasions. I guess history probably has countless examples of similar concepts. Now with fast fashion, people can look fashionable all the time but the catch is that the quality just isn't there and it's often obvious. My grandmother use to say that the fact people don't invest in clothes anymore means poorer people don't even get that one day to shine anymore because the quality isn't there and they were similar stuff through out the week now.
I imagine that this is universal. I dare to say every culture has their 'sunday best' like a traditional folk costume or just a nice suite. In Finland we have our own word for it that is quite similar: pyhävaatteet-meaning like sunday best, holyday clothes, sabbath clothes. Today it just means nice looking clothes you wouldnt wear to do something dirty (so basically the same)
That Sunday Clothing stuff is kinda still relevant. At least in rural Austria where I'm from, my grandma always told me I have to put on my best clothes for church. And funnily enough also when going to Vienna. Because you the people can't think that we're farmers, no we must look good. In Israel however this concept is still reeeeally relevant. Like people really dress up for shabbat, it's crazy. Even if you forget what day of the week it is, on Friday you know that shabbat is coming up because every little girl has a giant bow on their head and every man wears half a bear on theirs, I kinda love it
That´s totally true, in Spain we still say "vestir de Domingo", this meaning wearing as neat and elegant as you can , and my grandmas, my mother, my autns, and all the men in the family (all very poor) had that sense of dressing properly for sunday mass or any festivities. We also have an amazingly variety of regional garments... each province have their own.
Yes, not all countries associated it with church service, but the idea of keeping the best suit or dress for the day off, be it Friday, Saturday or Sunday is widespread across countries. In some Spanish speaking countries you have the expression "traje de domingo" or "vestido dominguero" meaning the special suit or dress worn in the special occasion (going out for a stroll on Sundays, the day off).
Nowadays it may sound weird, but back then, with a lot less options for entertainment, and many of them being too expensive for the majority of the population, going out for a stroll and a picnic in a park or boulevard was THE thing to do on Sundays. And the way to socialise with other people too. Particularly if you were single and open to offers.
In my town there are plenty of men who go to church in their cleanest pair of overalls because that is their best clothes. Poor children go to church in their cleanest hoodie and nicest pair of jeans.
I remember reading a little journal snippet about Norwegian folk clothing, written by a German scholar in the early 1800's. Every summer there would be a big market in Oslo, called Kristiania at the time, and people would be coming from all over the country to sell homemade things, food, etc. He found it fascinating how you could tell how remote people's home villages were by how outdated their clothing silhouettes were. The people from the area around Oslo were dressed in fashion that was just a decade out of date, and then further north towards the lake Mjøsa, they would be 20 years out of date, and then some people from really remote mountainous areas would be wearing clothing that was as much as 40 years out of date. That's not to say their clothing was bad, it was beautifully embroidered and had interesting colours, but the silhouette was very oldfashioned.
What was the name of the journal snippet?
@@uglukthemedicineman5933 I wish I could remember, sorry. It's in one of the many books I have about Norwegian folk costumes, but it's gonna take some searching to find it.
In ‘Little Town on the Prairie’, by Laura Ingall Wilder, she writes about sewing a wardrobe for her sister Mary to take to college back east. Round hoop skirts had gone out of fashion and the bustle was well in, but they put enough material in the skirt of Mary’s best dress so that it would fit over a big round hoop skirt if hoops came back in. Just a neat example of how poor/working class people would sew their new clothes with alterations in mind so that the dress could be used for decades. This was in November 1882.
During my University days, I always dressed 'up' for final exams. The greater the trauma of the semester - the better the exam day look. I tried to create at least that element of control over my stinking life! During the 40's, my mom 'turned' her dresses when they became faded or a bit worn looking. She taught me how when I began sewing. (You take it apart and re-stitch it with the inside out. This is only effective, of course, on wovens, not prints. But it can extend the life of a wool or linen suit by years.)
Hah I thought it was just me. I ALWAYS dressed up for exam days and then felt super overdressed when everyone was in sweats 😅 to this day I'm sure it gave me a mental boost though
_"Traditional_ _rural_ _clothing_ _of_ _the_ _poor_ _people"_
Listen, I'll be honest with you. I don't know what the algorithm was thinking. I watch videos about funk music and philosophy, but that line just instantly made you the meme queen of my heart
Who’s in your favorite list right now?
Christopher Hitchens is one of my favorites
@@kari8187 Right now? Hilary Putnam, Jürgen Habermas, Mary Midgley, Angelika Krebs and Lisa Herzog, to name a few.
I'm not religious but the whole "liberal" (but actually pretty reactionary/conservative) new-atheism thing with Hitchens, Harris, Dennett as a social commenter, and more recently Peterson and Shapiro, and so on, I am very strongly not a fan of.
@@ticfortea reactionary conservatives, woo that’s an interesting take. As long as it’s not far left , far right or intersectionalism I’m interested, I may look at a few you’ve mentioned.
When my grandparents moved from Poland to Canada, they were very poor. But babcia was a seamstress and she made her own dresses and dressed very elegantly, so much that people thought she was a lady of reputable wealth.
i've always heard that, in addition to bust support, a well-fitting corset offers good back support, which working women probably needed. that, and they were brought up wearing them and thinking that they were as normal as we think bras are today. so i'm not surprised that they wore corsets even if they were poor.
Yep, and if women were too poor to buy a corset on their own, they often pooled resources together so they could buy one person a corset and then do it again for the next person who needed one, like insurance.
If they could breathe and move around in a corset, that is.
@Furienna i feel like back support would have been more preffered thus enduring slight breathing obstruction, back problems wouldve been even more severe back in the day
@@erinys2 yes! that said, i've been viennese waltzing in a corset twice and experienced zero breathing obstruction whatsoever. the corsets were both made to measure, so they're more like a perfect comforting hug than ermergererhmwearinersuppertgermernt. in fact, my corsets are more comfortable than any off-the-shelf bras i own.
@@ushere5791 literally i have chronic back pain and it lessens my pain to an extent
I know this is a very frail connection, but I shower and dress up nice when I'm sick even though I want to stay in bed in pajamas all day and that makes me feel a bit better. Doesn't cure a flu, but raises morale nonetheless
I work Hospice, which is end of life comfort care. It’s amaZing how much getting ready and feeling pampered and put together can make a person feel so much better, even when they’re too sick to get out of bed. ♥️♥️♥️
This is funny to me. When I have a chance to hole up at home all day (yay!) I get up and change from my nightgown into flannel pants and a tee shirt! That makes me feel good all day! :)
@@jenniferpearce1052 Comfy is good, but when you're sick, dressing normal makes you feel regular, no? Totally on a day off, dress down, for sure.
@@nikkicedrone9311 I'll have to try it the next time I'm sick!
@@nikkicedrone9311 It seems that's what a lot of people living above the poverty line, or aren't working-class poor don't realize about "poor people who don't look/dress poor". For one, you (general you) don't know how they got it. It could've been a birthday/holiday gift from a loved one, or they could've bought it secondhand or severely marked down in a sale, or they could've saved up for it. Secondly, it doesn't really matter how they got it, because that nice thing, or nice clothes can make a world of difference to their self-esteem and morale. It's like lecturing people for buying Starbucks coffee instead of saving/investing their money elsewhere. Small luxuries like Starbucks can boost their morale, and allows them to feel good. "Poor" people are allowed to have nice things.
It’s okay, I’m a native English speaker and can’t say “rural” either
Hayley Bonnett synonyms are our best friend. Same deal with spelling
I hate saying brewery!
Hayley Bonnett rural? More like ruuerul
There was a gag about a movie called Rural Juror on 30 Rock for a reason.
I hate the words 'rural' and 'mirror' with passion.
Emma Watson should have listened to your lecture about corsets before going "Ew I'm not gonna wear a corset because I'm a strong indipendent woman" when filming Beauty and the Beast!
@gidlegendary
Yeah. I love Emma as a Harry Potter fan and I think shes an amazing actress. But yes supposedly (I don't have any sources) she refused to wear a corset (they actully would have been stays)
I love Emma so much but her bella yellow dress was soooooo disappointing it had no "wow" factor a princess dress should have and I agree she could have stuck with not wearing a super tight corset. It's simply a bra. Some people choose to wear it to make the waist look extremely small but you don't always have to do it. It simply makes the dress look better and more authentic
@@stutir.5242 She would have been wearing 18th-century stays anyway, which were not tightened nearly as much as later 19th-century corsets were. Stays were basically only tightened enough to provide the correct amount of support.
When you put it that way, it’s actually demeaning not to wear a corset playing historical roles. Women were able to kick ass even though they had to wear very confining garments. That deserves respect. Belle can be a rebel and a scientist while wearing a corset or stays. And real women did that. Wearing a corset doesn’t discount the many contributions many women made while wearing them. I don’t know if I’m making sense but looking at it through a modern lens and dismissing corsets or stays as unfeminist is a very reductive way of thinking
Strong independent women from the past, fighting for our rights and changing the world while wearing corsets: 👁️👄👁️
“Dirty beggars slaving their day away for a piece of bread.” Me and the one coworker I get along with.
Can you rate "anne with an e"-costumes? And the Danish girl
Yes!!!
Yes!
Yeeess!!
Yes!!
I just binged Anne with an E last night!!!! My eyes are so puffy and dry from crying last night 😂 What an amazing show
Wearing long skirts seems so relaxing. Like, don't even worry about your legs ; you look like a blob under there? No one can notice, or care!
Øath Ghost also, how easily you could sew big pockets and fit like, I don’t know, a loaf of bread with you. Long skirts can be very practical as well in some contexts.
This is literally why I prefer to wear long skirts most of the time (also I just find them more comfortable than pants.)
I find skirts and dresses more comfortable in general. People think that I’m “dressing up” or trying to look fancy, but I’m just trying to be comfy.
also they're perfect for summer as they can have cooling effect while also being used as a nice picnic quilt for your friends 😁
I agree long skirts can be comfy, but I like sitting cross-legged and my parents will tell me it's "not proper" to sit like that in a skirt, and I might get funny looks from people. Also what if I need to climb a tree? Wouldn't want to have people looking up my skirt...
"Sometimes we dress well when we feel bad" me every day
This explains why I wear my most over the top outfits when I’m depressed or having chronic illness flare ups. It really does boost your mood even if you are staying in bed all day and nobody will see you.
This links so well into one of my main historical interests which is the daily life (incl clothes) of the first convicts in early colonial Australia! When you're literally on the other side of the world, how long does it take for European fashions to arrive? Sydney remained an essentially pre-industrial town for a long time after the industrial revolution happened in Europe, how did that affect fashion? Without factories and the resources of even rural Europe, how did you acquire new clothes and fabrics? There were undoubtedly convict-specific fashions (eg there's a great drawing of a convict woman in a giant black hat, like an American pilgrim's hat!), but I'm so interested in learning more about them
That sounds fascinating! Not an area I'd ever have thought to look into, but certainly worthwhile!
Have you seen the movie The Nightingale?
I often wonder how our early settlers coped with the heat & humidity. I look at early photos & think how difficult it was to maintain a neat & clean appearance but they seemed to do it. Thinking about all the layers though - corsets & petticoats, stockings & gloves! The men didn’t have it much easier though, with 3piece suits & ties. It really is a fascinating topic.
CinnamonCari No - I'm not really into horror! I just watched the trailer, it'd be interesting to know about the research that went into the costuming. I can't find anything online, unfortunately, and I can't claim any serious knowledge about Tasmania and the later convict period so I can't really judge for myself!
Ann Em I wonder that all the time! The best theory (for Sydney up till the time of Macquarie) I can come up with given visual primary sources and my own surmising is that women wore basically late-18th century working class clothing and they would've adapted it in the same way women working in the fields in summer in England would have - tucking up minimal layers of petticoats, no jackets over stays, and of course natural fibres breathe well. My mental picture is pretty similar to the Crows Eye production 18th century summer hay cutting video, if you've seen that! But I'm still looking into it, so that's only a half-baked theory.
"I'm trying to cover like the whole fashion history here, so it's not easy, okay, it's one video." xDDDD
Yeah, and you did well, people really tend to ignore the obvious. Like, we nowadays are not so different from our ancestors really...
Yeah, we tend to forget that
My grandma said the same after the war when they had nothing left and she was a child. She was happy that her mother was good in making dresses for her and my granny said that despise the poverty and the hunger etc her mother made her dresses as fashionable and outstanding as possible. Because looking good was everything. Like today...
After a year of feeling like garbage in pajamas and sweatpants, where I end up wearing my nicest clothes to go to the grocery store, your statement about looking nice boosting your morale really hits home. I’ve been joking that it’s like Sally Hawkins in Shape of Water wearing heels to her job as a janitor, but instead it’s me ironing my button down shirt before picking up my meds at CVS. Its amazing how much it makes me feel like a Person again.
this is my favorite part about this channel - you don’t just do vintage fashion and period clothes you take a wholistic look at the ppl of that era and especially at the working class- the ppl that would’ve been you or me
Like me as a brand new mom working at Macy’s (nice $$$ department store) even though I was so much lower pay-class than my clientele that shopped there, there’s still a certain level of looking fashionable and classy you had to look in order to keep your job in good standing and keep customers happy.
Same with being a legal secretary. Really low pay working for rather rich bosses & clients, I was expected to "look the part" and even act it too, so here I am with a clunker car eating tuna every day for lunch but dressed like a million bucks. I couldn't afford my clothes new - I bought them all at consignment stores. I got really good at hair, makeup & nails too - I did them myself. I got so comfortable with this, I had NO PROBLEM splurging on expensive fragrances. Chanel Coco every day!!
Yes, Debora, I still wear a bra while I'm out tending to the horses so I have a feeling that 150 years ago I'd be wearing a corset to do the same things.
Thank you I’ve been researching late 1800s up until 1901 fashion for a working class immigrant family that would live in a city in America and I have been trying to research, and it’s hard to not find the “lavish stereotypical Victorian/ Edwardian outfit” particularly the women’s clothing. So these types of videos help give me a sense of finding what I’m looking for and are very helpful.
This video just made me wonder what the "Sunday best" of a lower class family. Like what is the fancyest clothes they were aloud to wear by law, maybe for special occasions? Or is that not a thing and they just wear what they always wear?
I think generally, when you made a new shirt (or bought one second hand, or were given one) the shirt you already have becomes your workwear and the 'new' shirt is now your sunday best.
Usually what you see presented now as “national clothing” is what lower classes wore for Sundays.
@@margaritam.9118 in England we don't have a national costume, sadly
@Tina Yael Severinovna M. yes that sounds similar to my dad, growing up in post-war england. he had two sets of clothes, sunday best, and school uniform. he didn't really own other clothes.
Sumptuary laws mostly dissipated by the Renaissance, so afterward different classes could merge fashions. Even during the sumptuary law eras, the poorer classes would save their nicest clothing [so better fabrics, maybe more up to date, etc] for special occasions or church just like today.
Thank you for this! It's such an intriguing topic and something that's not often talked about. Could you do a video on Polish folk costume too? Or just traditional folk wear in general. I think it would be interesting to juxtapose folk wear and the fashion of a certain era.
Omg I wish
We have shitload of folk costumes, every town had its own style - color, shapes, embroideries, decoration. It would take her a year to cover it all:)
@@YarrowNjune Yes, I thought so too, just a cool project idea maybe:)) I'm Hungarian so I can relate, we also have a huge variety:)
ooh yes! i don't know much about poland
I watched a feature related to the movie, ‘Perfume’ & how they decided to dress Laure (Rachel Hurd-Wood’s character) in more fashionable/ Parisian style, to show her socially mobile & socially aspirant father (played by the late Alan Rickman)- but there’s a village party, where her costume is more in-line with the folk dress of the region.
I would really love it, if period movies/ shows could think about things like cultural aspects, to give the story a greater ‘body’, as it were- & not just homogenise times & countries into single ‘looks’.
It’s not like there isn’t artwork & other references out there, to intimate the kind of variety there was.
Yas! I love seeing people recreating middle to upper class fashions, but I prefer recreating the more practical looks of poverty because no matter what century I was destined to be born into, my default will always be the equivalent of jeans and a Tshirt.
What you say in this video is so true. Poor people do care/did care about fashion. My grandmother had to start working at a factory when she was 14 years old in the 1930‘s. And all of her life she was very particular about fashion and appearance. She would refuse to leave the house before everything sat in place the way it was supposed to. And I mean everything. From head to toe. Thank you for not forgetting poor People.
"Ok loomer" 😂
#cotton lungs
I assumed that poor people's clothing was probably more comfortable. Nobody looks comfortable in their high fashion portraits.
They don't look comfortable today either! I heard the women going down the red carpet will sometimes wear 2 or 3 different layers of shapewear in order to fit into their designer gown.
@@SuperMrsMar depends on the person. Some people actually care enough to keep in shape (at *their* best).
No one who wears high heels is ever comfortable. And even if you’re in great shape, if you gain some extra muscle your clothes won’t fit the way you want which means you’re wearing the modern version of corsets ie shapewear!
@@milkpastasoup8960 sorry, I should have been clear, what I meant by red carpet was movie stars.
@@milkpastasoup8960 And some people aren't fat-shaming snobs with their heads up their ass like you. 😘
Love, love, love this video! Thank you for making it. Working class history doesn't get enough attention. A couple things I've found as someone interested in history but not nearly as experienced...
- Besides clothes, part of medieval Europe also had laws against people of certain social classes eating certain foods or eating too much quantity of food - they claimed that a coarser diet was more suitable for someone doing rougher work, but there's a possible secondary reason that the better-off non-nobles (like wealthier merchants) were imitating the upper class lifestyle and making the nobility angry. So your point about the lower class wanting to be fashionable and imitate the upper is completely valid and goes beyond even fashion.
- I read an article about European Renaissance fashion and how some periods/paintings depict those pinned on/generally detachable outer sleeves. I think the painting at 3:44 shows that? The article suggested that this particular fashion trend might've been really helpful for the working class to stretch their wardrobe. I haven't looked into the male side - this was mostly women's fashion...But they could potentially use different sleeves with a base outfit to change the look, wash sleeves that were soiled without washing the entire garment, and perhaps even go without outer sleeves if needed, more like depicted at 5:23 and the woman on the left at 9:51. I think it was a theory, not anything proved, but it was interesting.
I work as an occupational therapist in a rehabilitation hospital. At work I didn't always pay a lot of attention in makeup and jewlery (depending on my mood), especially when I wear mostly casual clothes because to job is pretty physical. Now during the Coronavirus, having to put a mask and gloves all day long and also wearing long scrub pants and not just a white coat (which now I need to button it without an option to leave it open with a nice top underneath), I suddenly started to put mascara every day and put on a nice necklace to peek from my white coat. Even when I simply go to the grocery store I noticed I started to care more about my outfit then before. I can really relate to the desire to look good (and feel better) in times of a crisis, stress and uncertainty.
I like to think about the present when wondering about the past, because we are not that different. Like we have poor people today, I am a poor person. Plenty of my friends are poor. And we all dress normally and are trying our best to enjoy life beyond working for a laughable wage. And we all have those few pieces that are a little bit more expensive and make us feel good.
In the past (mainly thinking about 19th cent) poor people also had their work clothes and their Sunday clothes which were usually the best. They had little money but they still sometimes bought relatively expensive things because they also liked luxury just as we do. Poverty is awful but not every peasant was starving to death just like not every worker today is starving.
I think of the girls in Little Women. Mend, make do, borrow, refashion...
I feel like everyone deserves a bit of luxury in their lives, regardless of their money situation. I feel like a little bit of luxury can make a person feel better and is a good distraction too. It's nice to just treat yourself and have a jolly good time with your life! :D Even when things are tough and the worst, everyone should have a taste of luxury and be allowed to enjoy it.
@@ReptilianTeaDrinker (I feel like everyone deserves their basic needs met without conditions so they can work to actually benefit the world and people around them and not to toil at a pointless job that only enriches the 1% and then maybe we can all have nice things that make us happy)
The nice thing today is that if you keep yourself fit, you can look better in Walmart clothing than heavy women look in their Nordstrom best.
Clothes weren't terribly expensive in the past, but food was very expensive, comparatively speaking, so most of a household's income would go on keeping everyone fed.
Clothing was a lot more modular too, with separate sleeves, collars etc so you could just buy parts, or swap them up for a different look.
YESSSSSSSSSSSS! There have been maybe 2 historic clothing/living history professionals out there who have even mentioned this topic in an informed way! One of them is Ruth Goodman, she's on a quest to find extant garments and literature of actual clothing worn by "regular" folks :0) Hooray you!!
Interesting... My gran told me about staining legs with tea and drawing lines down the back of legs to give the semblance of stockings! Do more about this please x
8:18 I really wish bras were optional nowadays. In the sense that I wouldn't be seen as messy or "making a statement" without one
You can use a sports bra or a bralette. Some brslettes are extremely comfortable
@@cassif19 I was probably unclear, so let me be more straight. I'd love it if nipples and hanging breasts were not considered as being messy or trying to attract attention and just simply our normal bodies considered normal and not always getting special attention (like guys whistling or women judging you as a slut simply because you're walking down the street)
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 saaameeeee
I suggest you to keep on wearing a bra. You'll ne thankful to yourself when you get older
As a historian I really appreciate how you outline your videos. The content could easily be a thesis, book, or even just a paper for a history class. Bravo 👏🏻
You are a Saint!!!!
I have searched so long for a video like this but people only look at the Rich Folks ™ fashion!
This is was interesting! I love how you explain everything. But I’m waiting for the day you accidentally slip up and say something like “I remember in [year] my friend wore _____” and out yourself as a time traveler
"Clothing alteration were a massively common practice"
And here we are Millenials believing we invented the clothe's DIY tutorials
I was just reading Jane Austen’s letters and she mentions to her sister Cassandra about unpicking a variety of their garments so they can be remade into something more fashionable.
@@crowseagull Yup. And turning a dress was also a thing. Because many fabrics were pretty on two sides and not just one you could take your faded dress and turn the pattern inside out so it looks good again. That won't work with printed fabrics of course, but the single colours would be fine.
We need the tutorials since we don't teach even basic sewing anymore. There are people who would not know what to do with a spool of thread, a needle, a button, and a shirt needing the button.
10:55 - that is EXACTLY the reason I wear 40s fashion everyday to school
That’s how trends get out of fashion. The top class things are downgraded throughout the classes until so many people have them, they’re not special anymore. Sounds logical, but it’s the point of fashion, be ahead of everyone else
I started setting my hair back in December and have already made it a near nightly habit. I got such good reactions when I had put together hair I can totally see a broke ass farmgirl in the Great Depression tearing up an old rag just so she can set her hair.
I remember reading that sumptuary laws were actually quite difficult to enforce. Apparently punishment usually just involved paying a fine and as the laws were just as much about the distinctions between royalty and aristocracy and aristocracy and commoners than rich and poor, many wealthy merchants and their wives were willing to pay the fine imposed by sumptuary regulations and just carry on wearing the 'illegal' clothes. It was almost a form of taxation in their view.
I guess if you're rich you can afford breaking the law, not much have changed
I know you already mapped A LOT of fashion history (thank you for that ❤), and I think for the future you can avoid comments "what about the poor" just by adding one minute to the video, where you show us "the poor", more casual clotes (it isn´t ment to be critical, just an idea). Thank you for your work!
The altering old dresses into new fashion reminds me of Cinderella's pink dress
Kathryn Vincent
I once saw a dress, I think it was in an online museum or something- it had clearly been originally Edwardian, with the white linen & lace, the high neckline- but the skirt had been altered into a shorter & slimmer fit, the sleeves were also slim-fitting... but it was the belt that really gave it away; the rhinestones were in an Art Deco shell pattern: someone had made over the dress during the Great Depression.
More historical poor people videos please, I’m kind of more interested in seeing what the working class were wearing, rather than rich people.
Thank you for this thoughtful, educational and entertaining video. So well done! I loved learning about the history, and appreciated that you included some personality in the delivery as well.
I’m early wow. Please make a video about Anne With An E. It takes place in late 1890s (& future seasons would be in early 1900s).
Love your videos, thanks!
It is a must...
Season 3 is the final season
Clare Maloney they cancelled it for no reason but it seems like it would be back. I mean lots of people including Ryan Reynolds and Sam smith, want it back :).
@@wickedthing6068 well let hope we get it back
Let's hope they renew it! The story can't end now just because Anne and Gil kissed!
Imagine thinking that in the future, they would think that we all dressed like CZcams creators and twitch streamers
also corsets really help with back pain, so it would make sense the working class people would wear them too.
I love that you discuss this, and how thoroughly! You are spot on with everything you say; you are so diplomatic. I am a big Laura Ingalls Wilder fan, she wrote the Little House on the Prairie set of books, about growing up between 1870-1885. She talks a lot about fashion, and how even though they were Poor, there was still always some woman with a Godey's Ladies book of fashion in the area that they could borrow and make their dresses from. They definitely cared. She records the dresses that she and her Ma made in the late 1870.s to mid 1880.s as being just what you see in fashion plates, with lace at the ends of three quarter sleeves and around a square neck. Then later, high collars with a pelisse and a twelve inch ruffle just brushing your shoes. You should check out Little Town on the Prairie by Laura Ingalls Wilder. She describes several of the dresses made in the early 1880.s by Poor women. These Happy Golden Years describes the dresses they made more toward the middle of that decade. Either way, yes they definitely cared, about their appearance, to the point that during a spell of crop failure and famine in the early to mid 1870.s, she and her sister didn't go to school for a whole year. What she didn't say but was recorded in local history is that, that in that time, her family and her family's clothes were so poor and ragged that they wouldn't be seen in public. For shame, I imagine. Yes, they definitely cared. Thank you for bringing this up!
You dress well as a way to keep yourself up. Ya know, a way to make yourself feel better.
It's also about avoiding being targeted by police or guardsmen by making yourself look not destitute. Which is still an issue to this day btw, beggars and homeless people are a target for lawmen. Help your local beggars.
ive always wondered about this since it seems like only rich people fashion would really be well documented
That was a great overview in a very short video! Round of applause here!
Really nice topic to discuss.It is so hard for museums to find working class clothing from a long while ago,as so many people would keep reworking the fabric into other garments blankets etc..It is always a pleasure to hear you talk about historical fashion .You must study paintings quite well.They tell so much,and often the artist will put little details that tell a silent story.I hope that you will have a wonderful life doing what you enjoy researching and creating!
So basically like people today, then. Some things never change.
layersofsnark Some things never change ... some things stay the same 🎶
sorry can't help myself
@@sorestedhebytheTumtumtree lol :D
Thank you for answering the questions wikipedia can't.
I actually really loved this, I always like to research different outfits from different time periods for different projects but I can barely ever find stuff that normal working class people used to war
This was a really interesting video! Thank you for trying to cram so much info into such a short timespan. Would love to see more like this, such as what elements would change depending on class, how many different garments they would wear and to what events/social gatherings, and how other fashion laws impacted the masses!
Would you be interested in loosely organizing a 2020 poor/working woman sewing challenge/bee, Karolina ? I mean, gorgeous dresses are gorgeous, but really appreciate how you've tried to make sure that the many non-rich and working class and poor women don't get overlooked. Maybe it would be a unique sewing experience to try to call forth our creativity in this way. It could be pretty loose "rules", no deadline needed, even, plus a hashtag so we can all see all the great work on Instagram or something. I bet other costubers and historical costume enthusiasts would be glad to share it around and even participate. It's wonderful that we can wear whatever we like, save up for amazing fabrics we couldn't have before, etc., but most of us still aren't Rockefellers. It'd be nice to honor our working foremothers, too.
sounds pretty cool!
I would love something like that! It's hard to find resources for common people's clothing, though. It doesn't even have to be poor people's clothing - even the working people's fashions are harder to find info on, regardless of social standing.
I think there are some resources around from maybe SCA people for medieval, and then there is art for the last couple centuries. But Karolina gives us a good idea of how to start-a little behind the times, maybe remaking from a different garment handed down, simpler fabrics. And then we can imagine also that a working woman would have a petticoat or two, but not a full crinoline, for example. If we did this we could pool resources and chat about it. :-) It would be cool to hear everyone's thought process on why they made certain choices.
Something that keeps coming up when we talk about women's fashion throughout history - women in sex work. It seems like they had their own influences on fashion trends in one way or another (either what to do, or what to avoid at all costs).
I would be interested in understanding the history there!
@@mclaire9447 I think this misses the nuance of my comment and the nuance of sex work today (and in general). While it's certainly true that period sex workers are and have been highly stereotyped in movies and media, I think it would be really interesting to learn where these stereotypes originated. Were these stereotypes as persistent then as they are now? What did life and fashion really look like for sex workers? Keep in mind that sex work doesn't necessarily only involve prostitution. There's so much more to unpack there.
As for sex work being a desperate situation, while this is true for countless women in history (I by no means want to gloss over the obvious hardships they faced) it should be pointed out that this has differed depending on culture and time period. There are also women who very happily work in the sex industry, and wouldn't have it any other way.
heck yea
I can't remember the name of the movie now, but frockflicks the blog picked it apart (for good reason) that was about a famous courtisane who in the movie was dressed in flowy dresses that were more or less just strips of fabric vaguely resembling ancient greek-ish chitons etc. But those dresses were only ever worn in portraits for effect, not in the daily lives. The courtisanes would have dressed exactly the same as the other women, with high collars and dark colours, but the director nixed that and made the costume designer do the fantasy dresses instead because those were sexier.
In some countries prostitutes had their own dress laws too!. In Spain they couldn't cover themselves with capes or bonnets/hats as the "decent women"
@@vilwarin5635 Laws like that have an another interesting effect...any woman in public without her cap/bonnet looks like a prostitute!
all my favourite things in one video: fashion history, memes, comic video editing, yesssss thank you Karolina for this TREAT
YESSS!!! THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS!!! Clothing choices for different classes is so difficult to find info on!
Could you do more detailed videos on poor women’s fashion? I really like all your fashion content but I think this is the video I’ve found most interesting. It would make a great series!
I'm currently reading a book that takes place in the late 19th century, so all of these things are very apparent and were very interesting to learn! It's always interesting to learn about the perspectives of people from different eras and places!
Excellent video :)
Thank you for your dedication. It is always pleasure to watch your videos as you have not only amazing historical fashion skills but also deep overall knowledge of eras.
I always love listening to your take, you always include such a nuanced view of the situations