A Strategic Deep Dive on TikTok, The Boiling Moat of Taiwan, and China’s Next-Gen Statecraft (4K)
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Matt Pottinger is a distinguished visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution and chairman of the China Program at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Matt served as U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor from 2019 to 2021. Before his White House service, Matt spent the late 1990s and early 2000s in China as a reporter for Reuters and The Wall Street Journal. He then fought in Iraq and Afghanistan as a U.S. Marine during three combat deployments between 2007 and 2010. Matt’s new book is The Boiling Moat: Urgent Steps to Defend Taiwan.
This episode is brought to you by:
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Timestamps:
[00:00] Preview
[01:38] Bao Tong’s calligraphy.
[04:15] Matt’s decision to study East Asian languages.
[06:09] Studying with Perry Link and the challenges of learning Chinese.
[08:31] Tips for learning Chinese and other languages.
[13:52] How TikTok has been weaponized by the Chinese Communist Party.
[17:39] The origins of TikTok and its obfuscatory ownership structure.
[23:31] How sowing chaos in the West serves the CCP’s aims.
[29:02] “Politics stops at the water’s edge.”
[30:46] How should the US rein in TikTok’s influence over its population?
[37:03] The significance of Taiwan geographically, ideologically, and economically.
[47:27] The semiconductor industry in Taiwan and its global importance.
[49:45] Deterring China from attacking or coercing Taiwan.
[57:09] Cultivating social depth in Taiwan.
[59:38] Guessing at Xi Jinping’s timeline.
[1:04:11] Demonstrating the will to match the capacity of following through.
[1:06:40] Matt’s top priorities for stemming Chinese ambitions.
[1:09:10] Architects of chaos.
[1:13:38] Staying alert against informational warfare and united front activity.
[1:20:43] Countering China’s influence on its Western-based citizens.
[1:25:09] Checkers vs. Go.
[1:26:58] How can the US reassert its position as a beacon of democracy?
[1:33:45] What prompted Matt to join the Marine Corps at age 32?
[1:40:02] Getting in shape for the occasion.
[1:42:07] Leadership lessons learned.
[1:48:38] The Boiling Moat, the importance of public service, and parting thoughts.
Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.
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This episode is brought to you by:
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China's annex pattern may be looking to restart. Kissinger's arrogance caused him to underestimated China. The last time USA annexed a country was Hawaii in 1898. Since World War II, Empire of CCP China has doubled it's historic size by annexing the following countries:
1949: The People’s Republic of China (PRC) was established. Shortly after, it annexed Xinjiang and defeated 100,000 troops using wooden fishing boats on Battle of Hainan Island.
1950: The PRC took control of the Zhoushan Archipelago.
1951: The PRC claimed the area of the Tibet Autonomous Region.
1954: During the First Taiwan Strait Crisis, the PRC annexed the Yijiangshan Islands and Dachen Islands.
1962: After the Sino-Indian War, China maintained control over areas of Aksai Chin and the Trans-Karakoram Tract, while India controlled the North-East Frontier Agency area, now known as Arunachal Pradesh.
1969: Following the Sino-Soviet border conflict, the Soviet Union controlled Zhenbao Island, which was later granted to China in the 2000s.
Seems a bit strange seeing Tim and the guest speaking in Mandarin, but very good pronunciation.
Hello from Taiwan 🇹🇼
說的流利，發音相當標準！
Bot much? Democracy, give everyone a break. Hamas and Israel. Stupid.
The comment section is totally compromised. Will not be surprised if the You tube algo also pushes it down everyone's watch list..
Fascinating insights.. I hope we succeed..
Interesting character for sure ... thank you for being such a great interviewer...you handled this interview with so much grace.
Great episode, I learned a lot!
Great information, very useful and relevant. ❤
Amazing stories! And fascinating insights. I agree that service can be an unparalleled call to adventure that can take our life or many of the lives in this world’s vast array, in such remarkable directions that our dreams of childhood will seem pale in comparison.
And return us with the ability to really laugh at the fun and folly of our selves and the whole human enterprise.
What an interesting guy
I love tiktok and I've learned so much on there. I've gotten so inspired and tried out new hobbies, books, recipes, cameras, etc thanks to it. I cannot believe how much better the algo is compared to reels. Reels is like being stuck watching America's funniest home videos with Bob Saget in 1996, bleck. Reels really needs to step up. Just utter trash content for the most part.
But I'm also totally in favor of forcing Tiktok to leave or sell to a US company. Same thing happened with Grindr, no?
surprising you've found it so valuable, but good to hear. Do you often get trash in your feed too or is it high quality?
Is it fast paced new book recommendations or the feed is mostly slow?
@@olivergilpin there's some trash. But my feed is mostly crafting, cooking, therapy, biking, camping content...ie good stuff. I can't get reels to give me the same quality.
Go to 13:30 to get to discussion.
Lots of Chinese bots here in the comments...
seriously man, it's saddening and sickening to read some of these comments, I'm a cybersecurity student and just naturally pay attention to stuff like this, but i really wish more Americans understood the threat of China, tik tok, and the possible seizing of Taiwan; the CCP has explicitly stated time and time again that they plan to take Taiwan, when this happens, which all indications point towards this evitability (I don't have enough free time to write about all the stuff China does to prove this, just done your own research at trustworthy sources), thousands and thousands of lives on all sides, China, US, and our allies, will be lost as a hostile take over of another country is going to involve some level of brute force. If China captures the semiconductor fabrication company TSMC, trust and believe our comfy way of live (for most Americans that is, even our poor are better off than the poor of many other countries) will drastically be changed; almost everything we love and rely on technology wise has microchips in them, the importance of a takeover by China of this company cannot be overstated
@@hamilton7181 none of that is related to the first amendment issues.
@@axileus9327 he explained how it's not a first amendment issue, you're not too good at this debate stuff are ya little buddy
@@axileus9327 you have been brainwashed. Now back to china
Hi - I read through the comments and couldn’t find a bot. Can you elaborate why you think there are bots? - I’m trying to learn from others that know more than I.
@timferriss Who are the aides to the U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell of Washington, that Mr. Pottinger suggest to be the lobbyists for TikTok?
I'm from Taiwan and I've watched this video at least a dozen times now. I wanted to comment so badly but thought maybe I should wait and watch it again. I'll be honest...I'm not sure how to feel about this. I wanted to love this guy so much. I mean...what's not to love? A very likable guy that speaks fairly decent Mandarin with a Beijing accent to boot. But the more I watch this video, the more dreadful it gets for me. For starters, his military background scares me and the fact that he actually called China "hostile". When all I'm seeing is hostility from America, not from China. It's America that's been doing all the punching! There has been a rumor that America has sent US troops to Kinmen (金門), which is a tiny island that is closer to mainland China than it is to Taiwan, if that's true that means US troops are right on the Chinese border. Do you know how insane that is?? I'm hoping there won't be any wars between China and America in the next couple years. I pray to God for the sake of the children in Taiwan, mainland China and America, this constant hostility will die down soon! War won't solve any problem, it will just create more hostility and hatred! I hope cooler heads in Washington will prevail and stop this nonsense ASAP!
Crazy to say that China is not the aggressor considering their activities in the South China Sea. Which they have absolutely no legitimate claim to.
Tim ... Please get Peter Zeihan as a guest.
Lol tiktok is the biggest poop ive never used
Also here in the netherlands there is a town we chased away all chinese restaurants the last went because we bombarded it with eggs. The shopowner went after us. And after that one random chinese guy was stalking us at our job using our toilet dixie outside and threatened that ‘he knows who we are’ lol. We still laugh about it. Later i accidentally discovered this guys home when i saw him washing his car outside rofl
Interesting . Chou Zi Chew is from Singapore . I watched him and I was quite impressed by his manners. His wife is Americans& so are his kids. He was telling the Commissiom that he served for 21/2 in the army in Singapore . When you were talking in Chinese was it Cantonese or Mamdatin ? There was a Prime Minister of Australia that was fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese Kevin Rudd and his daughter was fluent in either Mandarin or Cantonese. When I lived in Australia. I don’t have a problem with China wanting to build up with other ASian countries . Building bridges , opening the market building trains across Asia. What you are saying about they can also used sea containers. I saw those in Singapore . Is n’t there a bit of paranoia there from your side ? We want to build happy joyful new generation with love not war& respect . That’s how I see it. Thank you both copyright Marie-Christine Cauvy
Love so far, but a "good teacher" teaches, they don't drive people out of their class becuase of their attitude.
but isn't that the same thing as CZcams deciding what's trending or not. In my opinion, it's actually a good idea to have multi country to be joining the main social platforms, otherwise, if America is the monopoly, how do you know if America is not manipulating the world news?
would you want one-party states to have the same amount of control over this hypothetical algorithm as countries where there there is more of a balance of power (multi-party democracies)?
american social media is not allowed in China. case closed.
@@Jordan18561with tik tok existing in addition to America-based platforms you have a diversity of ownership. Removing tik tok narrows the field of vision. This is no different from the behavior we criticize the Chinese state for.
There’s also no authority vested in the us government to make this move. It’s an obvious first amendment violation. I’m surprised the guest is so brazenly determining what media Americans should be allowed to access on their behalf. This law should be overturned on the merits.
@@Jordan18561 I think power being distributed can be beneficial in some ways
Yt actually actively censorship stuff(and other platforms also heavily manipulate information). For example, when war in Ukraine started, yt banned one pro-russian channel with 1.5 mln subscribers. Even though the channel was about movies and games, political views of owner were enough to ban it.
Tuned in to listen to a high performer, instead listened to an American empire apologist
What should he be an apologist for instead then? China? Russia? Iran? North Korea? Someone else? Lol, you're just mad he called China bad, lmaooo
@@user-xp5id1kh4r Don't get trapped in a false dichotomy
@@user-xp5id1kh4r Don't fall prey to a false dichotomy.
@@user-xp5id1kh4r Don't fall prey to a false dichotomy.
I really like Tim’s work but going full into propaganda and politics is a not what I expect from Tim… the guy is spreading out infos and opinions and Tim does not challenge him a single bit. Politics is an oligarchs world… better stick to topics that unite people instead of promote war.
lolololol, you're just mad that china was bad mouthed
@@user-xp5id1kh4r not really - you see - those badmouthing any country have interests they represent. None of them in power truly care about us building and creating the world. I think all wars are a business. You sell weapons, armor, etc. Same with economic wars. They benefits an oligarchs business.... So I'm for the people. In every country. I'm for focusing on building a better world. Maybe one day we can all aim for collaboration and peace.
"Our alliances nato japan Australia are the US human shields"
Was born in Taiwan, they both speak better Mandarin than i do. Shoild i be ashamed
Very animated and interesting guest and a thoroughly enjoyable conversation.He makes Taiwan seem like the Shangri-la of the East. Please excuse my presumptiveness, but my interest in that place started with looking at Google Earth BSL 2, 3 and BSL 4 Biolabs, alll underground and all busy making Gain of Function military grade bioweapons for their Masters. Taiwan reportedly had 22-23 BSL 2 and 3 labs and a BSL 4 (the worst and most deadly). Fill in the blanks who you think that may be.
I'm from Australia and Google Earth revealed 4 BSL Level 4 Biolabs here , so our Governent's hands are in no way clean. When underground Bioweapons are being manufactured everyone is a potential target. Could those earthquakes possibly have been underground military destruction of the aforementioned? I dearly hope so.
Stay off the Alex Jones man, it rots the brain, lol
@@user-xp5id1kh4r Not a fan of Alex, I prefer "neutralswiss" channel creator_ Pascal Najadi, an ex Swiss Airforce officer, (on Rumble), who filed a lawsuit against the Swiss President and asked for an investigation into the Swiss Health Minister. I was a journalist , working F/T at the U.N. (New York) where they rolled out Agendas 21 and Agenda 2030. You know, New World Order stuff.
I do not need the likes of AJ for my sources or perspeectives, PS we are all in a massive learning curve, myself inxluded. Peace out.
Taiwan “matters because of economics, it matters for us.” This video on America good and China bad brought to you by wealthfront. Says it all right there lol
The TikTok debate is interesting. Yes, there are worries about other countries having too much influence. But people should be free to choose what apps they use. It's good to have competition like TikTok because it makes sure we get what we want from social media. We just need to make sure it's safe for everyone.
And what’s to keep the govt from classifying Elon Musk as threat to force him to sell Twitter? I think Tik Tok is dumb but this sets a bad precedent.
You did not listen to the whole podcast. That's what they're saying. It's not about banning tiktok it's about making it safer by not having it controlled by the CCP like it currently is.
You're missing the point. The guy even said its fine for TikTok to exist... it just can't be under control/ownership of the mainland China. Which is how it operates right now. Basically, just like China does, it can't be under the control of a foreign state actor. Its fine if it exists though
@@user-xp5id1kh4r why can China own farmland in the US? And how long before the govt determines Elon Musk a “threat” and forces him to sell ownership of Twitter
I agree that a lot of china’s policies are unacceptable but to mention Israel without criticism of the human rights crisis in Gaza is very hypocritical. It’s the pot calling the kettle black
lol, you're just mad that china was bad mouthed
ah there it is, 15min in and the anti-israel argument (the real reason of the ban) comes out lol
And we know who controls the US now :D Interesting how Epstein was working for Gylaine (his hander) for them.
I did notice that he kept bringing up Israel. I'm pretty sure that's a different country than the USA.
I understand the argument vs Tik Tok. However, I still think it’s gross govt overreach and censorship
two things can be true at the same time. Tiktok is a powerful tool being used by the Chinese government to spy on and control young people in the US. At the same time, the main reason people in DC want to ban it is because they want to censor anti-israel speech.
The argument for censorship is national security.
But the US govt has a big self interest in maintaining the US Govt-Silicon Valley censorship regime. They were able to control the public discourse during Covid, the 2020 election and Russia Collusion.
As Matt Benz says, the US govt wants a state monopoly on fake news.
TikTok breaks this monopoly. So does Rumble. So does Twitter. Watch for all of them to be hit.
What's insane is it's 1 platform... 1. There's supposed to be a free market. Even if there is more foreign influence than ideal with TikTok, it's just 1 option and it should be available for consumes to use or not use. Sure, it's doing well but you know why it's doing well? Most people who use it feel like they are able to communicate better without platform interference than the other "American Owned" platforms. That's what people find so annoying about the tiktok ban is that aside from perhaps twitter these days which is limited in it's communication by design, every other major platform feels catered, censored and overbearing in all the ways he's claiming "could" happen to tiktok. It's BS. This whole interview smells bad
💯% right
Does China allow Facebook in China? Does it allow Instagram in China? What about Twitter? ...... what happened to the "free market", lololol
@@user-xp5id1kh4r Insta and facebook is 100% CIA. Of course when US says China is #1 enemy, you don't let their CIA platform in your country. On the opposite, China NEVER designated US as and enemy, or a danger in anyway. Only US need enemy 24h/365days to justify stealing TRILLIONS to the American population. And justify killing millions (Irak, Syria, Lybia, Serbia, Somalia, Laos, Indonesia, Nicaragua, Grenada, gosh the list never stops)
Pretty weak stuff on TikTok.
Matt's giving the standard US government narrative about TikTok and China. You can hear the exact same talking points on CNN every night of the week.
Tim, you should have someone with tech depth respond to these weak shallow arguments.
My thoughts exactly, and it always grates on me when my intelligence is insulted. When you're well versed in what logical fallacies and cognitive biases are, these kinds of arguments/talking-points don't pass the smell test.
Yeah I had to turn this one off. This guy is a simp for the State
Totally agree
so it's all right to claim China is doing genocide but what Israel is doing is not a genocide.
this episode seems such a propaganda piece.
anyways Thanks Tim at least I was able to hear the US govt concerns. I could never have heard such stuff if someone else was hosting such an episode.
lol, someone's mad that china was bad mouthed
This is a hugely one sided (propaganda level) pod. Some balance would be more intellectually honest. I know ita not a political channel, but this is so weird.
It’s full blown propaganda. I’m only a moderate follower of politics, but even I can sense that the guest is a lifetime “spook”.
Tim sold out for this video. Additional relevant info= Tik Tok servers are based in US, 100% users pers info are based in US and can't be accessed by China. They banned Tik Tok because 70% ++ of users where pro Pal. This guy is a paid professional liar (often called propaganda) . And lastly US recognized Taiwan as Chinese in the 70's.
Yeah I agree with this. Bring some real Chinese people on. Eric X Li.
Stop throwing out buzzwords like "this is propaganda". Point out talking points you disagree with and put out a counterargument. Otherwise you're no better than a Chinese bot
@@plumrains5010 "Chinese bot" is a dismissive talking point. Anyone who watched the whole thing can see it. I'm not here to tell anyone how to podcast. Anyone is free to hold any POV they want. I was just disappointed that Tim Ferris did not ask better questions to push back. I lived in China for 20 years. There is an unbelievable amount of missing context and a lack of depth being communicated by this guest. Fine...But he's not helping advocate for peace. Its also sad that US propaganda is so repeated and blatant that the argument against it have become "buzzwords."
22:00 Professional question! The guest's view is so not convincing, looking at things only from the ideological perspective.
Why did Tim Ferriss do this interview? It's a far cry from the usual self-help, life hacks & self-optimization he usually likes to cover... I listened to the entire thing and found the vibe very strange and off-putting :(
It's a PsyOp obviously
@@n8works 😂
It's a PsyOp, he sold out.
AIPAC = $ (thought control) ~ "Freedom" + "America First INO" ... you are free to think what you want, as long as its been approved by the chosen.
Tim is working for the Pentagon now 😂
Bringing McCarthy into the narrative?!?! Seriously? And "Taiwan doesn't design chips, American companies design chips. " Get the chip off your shoulder, please. There are intelligent and innovative people all over the world and the brain drain to US is horrible. As for the TikTok, the whole issue is: they are better than us at propaganda so we have to one-up them
What's Tauwan
@@Trowa159 did you ever hear of typos?
lmao, someone's mad that china was bad mouthed
@@user-xp5id1kh4r not mad at anything. Wish that somebody gets a realty check and gets off the high horse
He was quoting MacArthur, Douglas MacArthur, a United States army general who fought in many wars - WWI, WWII, and the Korean war.
The pos you're thinking of is MaCarthy, Joseph McCarthy, a US senator in the 50s who was a real jerk to anybody who cared about the social welfare of their fellow Americans. He started the whole Red Scare stuff in Congress exposing anyone who ever had anything to do with Socialism and labeling them as Communists ("The Enemy"), even if it was just a passing intellectual interest in alternative economic models.
He's the one responsible for that dark chapter of snitching and paranoia in American history known as "McCarthyism".
lol. This guy is so brainwashed
What did he specifically say that makes you say that?
hahahaha, americans are just afraid someone did built a better platform. funny
lol, you're just mad that china was bad mouthed
Tim sold vitamins in Taiwan. How come that’s not highlighted in his intro - rather than, San Francisco, Silicon Valley, the 4 hour work week (bs) - this guy does not work 4 hours a week. By the way, what is the CIA doing in China’s national security?
How many hours per week does he work? And what does your cia question mean, it doesn't make any sense
Disappointed in you Tim. I can see the respect you have for Matt but you let him turn your podcast into a propaganda piece. Not pushing back on the warmongering, McCarthyism, and shameless pro Israeli talking points discredits the more insightful parts of your conversation.
If you wish to become a political commenter, it would benefit your audience to be more than a sounding horn. Look no further than Rogan to see what happens when you go down this path.
LMAO! This comment covers literally everything they talked about that was being actively pushed by various state actors, lololololol
@@user-xp5id1kh4r lol everything being pushed by U.S. state actors you mean. I won't deny it's two sides of the same coin, but at least TikTok isn't actively promoting violence like this guy is.