I really like your method of stepping in on the defence and try to block the attacking shield. I will certainly try this myself and see what happens. Thanks for sharing!
Having practiced with Viking Sword & Roundshield for a while now, I have just found this video. This is somewhat different from Alexander Martzok and Roland Warzecha's take on things. As no treatises exist for this form, we are all trying to make sense of things. However, the "shoulder stop" to an oberhau strike depicted in the video would still allow the opponent to strike your head, the opponent here is taller and has long arms. In my humble opinion this is very risky. I suggest there is no need to get that close, as a shield edge blow to wrist/forearm maintains safe distance from the sword, maintains cover on the intended target with the shield, and in reality would injure the opponent - possible bone breaker. It's important that we explore this form from all angles even if ultimately found to be less effective. Keep up with the good work. Your comments please. 😊👍
For some reason my response to the first comment isn't appearing. Please watch my earlier video czcams.com/video/3rFVbo8dZS0/video.html where I explain the available evidence for reconstructing large shield use. There are 15th and 16th century manuals, but also images, showing the same guards and techniques as those manuals from earliest times right up till the 18th century. Therefore we can be fairly certain that at least broadly, shield use has been based on the same principles for thousands of years.
I see what you mean by having to stop attack its at the shoulder, but then you have to relay on that his making an full out attack? How can it be that in the stand so close? (you do not need more than 5cm blade for it can be deadly) Good show hope you do more. -Erik
The original sources show combatants standing quite close. They also recommend lunging forward with the left leg as you parry, so the attacker and defender are both closing distance as the attack is made. I find that if I'm timid I find these techniques problematic, but if I screw my courage to the sticking place, as Shakespeare put it, and lunge deeply in on my defences, the techniques work far better and I get hit a lot less.
How would the wearing of chainmail, or other body protecting armor affect your targeting? Many of these sword strikes are to the belly, would technique be different targeting the face and legs predominately?
It is hard to get through (chain)mail with a sword, thrust or a cut. You would target locations not protected by mail armour. Face is a good target, so are feet and ankles, but they are the good targets anyway, even if you opponent is not wearing any armour.
+IAmNotSpartacus My sword was made by New Zealand swordsmith Peter Lyon over 20 years ago and it's still going strong. It's based on a surviving original dated to 850. Shaun's is a fairly cheap commercially available sword that he's nevertheless quite happy with, given it's low price.
+IAmNotSpartacus If you mean regular Stoccata classes, I'm not sure. Pete Radvan sometimes teaches this system. If you mean the conference in June, I'm not teaching it yet, and I'm not sure of anyone else who is.
Watch my earlier video about the surviving evidence for how people fought with large shields. There are no manuals, but there is plenty of pictorial material indicating that people in earlier centuries used their large shields in much the same way as is shown in the 15th and 16th century manuals (which are themselves consistent, despite describing shields of very different sizes and shapes).
IDK about the op, but I'm at max volume. If I put on headphones, it's ok. But my laptop speakers aren't loud enough to overcome the ambient noise of the house I'm in right now.
Your friend is not even using the shield tho so these are not right they don’t work if he was using his shield it would be all different I don’t get what your trying to do here
I think these are supposed to be the basics that you learn to overcome unskilled opponents. This is a common thing in many martial arts. For example, in BJJ you learn how to escape common headlocks that as a BJJ practitioner you would no longer use. This is for self defence purposes, but also so you aren't punked by some random n00b in sparring. But even then, I could still see this used against someone who knows what they are doing. I think it is just a matter of reading the opponent and having good timing. He is putting a lot of force into the attack, almost like a punch. That could easily move the shield of someone not expecting it (hence the timing and reading of the opponent.) This is how KOs work. In boxing, kickboxing or MMA... even though both know what they are doing, it is the strike they don't predict that knocks them out. One fighter just had the better timing and accuracy in that moment.
You really are stabbing a lot for someone talking about a period defined by mail armor and round, spatulated tipped swords. We can infer through basic logic and written sources that thrusting with a Viking age sword would have been a quite uncommon thing
Locky Paterson-Crisp have you ever tried to drive an actual spatulated/rounded tip through heavy cloth and/or furs? It will get through but ain’t nothing easy about it, especially on a moving target that has give and can move away. Again though, even though maille wasn’t super prominent EVERYONE had a big ass round shield that would cover from the shoulders to mid thigh or even more. Leaving only targets like the head, legs, and arms, and sometimes the right side shoulder exposed. You’re not going to thrust at any of those targets. That’s why swords of the time where tip heavy swords more designed for the cut. That’s why we also read about people lopping of limbs, cleaving into the torso from the shoulder. And we see that in human remains as well. Thrusting wasn’t a super common technique because it just wasn’t that viable.
Trevor Mathews firstly from my experience sparring landing a thrust is far from uncommon. Secondly most swords of this period while having more rounded points than later on I would not call them spatulate tips and cutting through furs is just as hard in my experience. Cutting was likely the primary tactic but the amount of thrusting shown in the video still seems reasonable
Locky Paterson-Crisp one of the defining features of a Viking era sword is literally a spatulated tip. That’s not arguable!? Again every piece of information we have historically leads to a fighting style and sword specifically designed to cut and cleave as well as possible. The reason the tips are spatulated is solely to leave for mass in the tip so that it was possible to make cuts even if you were to only hit with the very end of the sword. Also from proper sparring with a Viking era sword and round shield, you’ll learn very quickly how good the shield is at doing its job making it very hard to land a thrust into the torso. As for stabbing at exposed legs and sword arm, that’s just kind of dumb. The thigh is the only part of a limb that stabbing into might actually be a viable attack in a fight, but again most of the thigh is protected by a shield and it’s a lot harder to make a hit with a thrust in the leg than it would be a cut. I’m not saying no one ever ran anyone through with a damn Viking era sword, what I’m saying is it was very uncommon
If you fight viking-style, you should have the leg of the sword-side in front, not the one on the shield-side. The way you fight is useful for kiteshields and other long shields, but not vikingshield. look for "holmgang hamburg" on youtube and you will see why...
Thanks for the comment, but I did modern re-enactment for over 20 years. I now choose to base what I do on the surviving source material. If I led with the sword leg I wouldn't be able to do most of the illustrated historical techniques.
I like how it looks like the other guy just cut his hair midway through the training
I really like your method of stepping in on the defence and try to block the attacking shield. I will certainly try this myself and see what happens. Thanks for sharing!
Having practiced with Viking Sword & Roundshield for a while now, I have just found this video. This is somewhat different from Alexander Martzok and Roland Warzecha's take on things. As no treatises exist for this form, we are all trying to make sense of things.
However, the "shoulder stop" to an oberhau strike depicted in the video would still allow the opponent to strike your head, the opponent here is taller and has long arms.
In my humble opinion this is very risky.
I suggest there is no need to get that close, as a shield edge blow to wrist/forearm maintains safe distance from the sword, maintains cover on the intended target with the shield, and in reality would injure the opponent - possible bone breaker.
It's important that we explore this form from all angles even if ultimately found to be less effective. Keep up with the good work.
Your comments please. 😊👍
I really wanted those details on how to use curved shields
tassie tiger shield looks awesome :D
Grande vídeo,muito bom,boa técnica
For some reason my response to the first comment isn't appearing. Please watch my earlier video czcams.com/video/3rFVbo8dZS0/video.html where I explain the available evidence for reconstructing large shield use. There are 15th and 16th century manuals, but also images, showing the same guards and techniques as those manuals from earliest times right up till the 18th century. Therefore we can be fairly certain that at least broadly, shield use has been based on the same principles for thousands of years.
Why block his weapon when you can block his arm? Great technique!
It looks like Sean cops a shield in the mush at 5:19.
Thanks for the video.
+korg20000bc So hard, apparently, that his hair fell out.
Yeah, the phone memory filled up and we had to film the last bit a few days later.
I see what you mean by having to stop attack its at the shoulder, but then you have to relay on that his making an full out attack?
How can it be that in the stand so close?
(you do not need more than 5cm blade for it can be deadly)
Good show hope you do more.
-Erik
The original sources show combatants standing quite close. They also recommend lunging forward with the left leg as you parry, so the attacker and defender are both closing distance as the attack is made. I find that if I'm timid I find these techniques problematic, but if I screw my courage to the sticking place, as Shakespeare put it, and lunge deeply in on my defences, the techniques work far better and I get hit a lot less.
GUESS IT'S ALL ABOUT GETTING THE POINT. LIKE THE SHOULDER BLOCK IDEA.
THANK YOU AND TAKE CARE GARE
How would the wearing of chainmail, or other body protecting armor affect your targeting? Many of these sword strikes are to the belly, would technique be different targeting the face and legs predominately?
It is hard to get through (chain)mail with a sword, thrust or a cut. You would target locations not protected by mail armour. Face is a good target, so are feet and ankles, but they are the good targets anyway, even if you opponent is not wearing any armour.
5:19 ouch
this poor mans shoulder xD
Where did you get the swords?
+IAmNotSpartacus My sword was made by New Zealand swordsmith Peter Lyon over 20 years ago and it's still going strong. It's based on a surviving original dated to 850. Shaun's is a fairly cheap commercially available sword that he's nevertheless quite happy with, given it's low price.
+Stephen Hand Thanks, do you know if Viking sword and shield will be taught at any of the Sydney classes?
+IAmNotSpartacus If you mean regular Stoccata classes, I'm not sure. Pete Radvan sometimes teaches this system. If you mean the conference in June, I'm not teaching it yet, and I'm not sure of anyone else who is.
this is quite cool, but even more indepth explenation has the Roland from Dimicator chanel.....well that is for 1vs1
Roland acknowledges that he started doing this after he read Paul Wagner and my paper on the subject.
I thought the viking age preceded the medieval age thus all of the sources after 1300s.
Watch my earlier video about the surviving evidence for how people fought with large shields. There are no manuals, but there is plenty of pictorial material indicating that people in earlier centuries used their large shields in much the same way as is shown in the 15th and 16th century manuals (which are themselves consistent, despite describing shields of very different sizes and shapes).
cant hear shit, might have been a good video if I was deaf and there where captions
cant hear you.
So turn up the volume!
IDK about the op, but I'm at max volume. If I put on headphones, it's ok. But my laptop speakers aren't loud enough to overcome the ambient noise of the house I'm in right now.
Your friend is not even using the shield tho so these are not right they don’t work if he was using his shield it would be all different I don’t get what your trying to do here
I think these are supposed to be the basics that you learn to overcome unskilled opponents. This is a common thing in many martial arts. For example, in BJJ you learn how to escape common headlocks that as a BJJ practitioner you would no longer use. This is for self defence purposes, but also so you aren't punked by some random n00b in sparring.
But even then, I could still see this used against someone who knows what they are doing. I think it is just a matter of reading the opponent and having good timing. He is putting a lot of force into the attack, almost like a punch. That could easily move the shield of someone not expecting it (hence the timing and reading of the opponent.) This is how KOs work. In boxing, kickboxing or MMA... even though both know what they are doing, it is the strike they don't predict that knocks them out. One fighter just had the better timing and accuracy in that moment.
@@chaos_omega is it works even in hema?
back when norge and danmark were cool
You really are stabbing a lot for someone talking about a period defined by mail armor and round, spatulated tipped swords. We can infer through basic logic and written sources that thrusting with a Viking age sword would have been a quite uncommon thing
Mail was not very common in the early Middle Ages andThe rounded point would no problem getting through lighter armour.
Locky Paterson-Crisp have you ever tried to drive an actual spatulated/rounded tip through heavy cloth and/or furs? It will get through but ain’t nothing easy about it, especially on a moving target that has give and can move away. Again though, even though maille wasn’t super prominent EVERYONE had a big ass round shield that would cover from the shoulders to mid thigh or even more. Leaving only targets like the head, legs, and arms, and sometimes the right side shoulder exposed. You’re not going to thrust at any of those targets. That’s why swords of the time where tip heavy swords more designed for the cut. That’s why we also read about people lopping of limbs, cleaving into the torso from the shoulder. And we see that in human remains as well. Thrusting wasn’t a super common technique because it just wasn’t that viable.
Trevor Mathews firstly from my experience sparring landing a thrust is far from uncommon. Secondly most swords of this period while having more rounded points than later on I would not call them spatulate tips and cutting through furs is just as hard in my experience. Cutting was likely the primary tactic but the amount of thrusting shown in the video still seems reasonable
Locky Paterson-Crisp one of the defining features of a Viking era sword is literally a spatulated tip. That’s not arguable!? Again every piece of information we have historically leads to a fighting style and sword specifically designed to cut and cleave as well as possible. The reason the tips are spatulated is solely to leave for mass in the tip so that it was possible to make cuts even if you were to only hit with the very end of the sword. Also from proper sparring with a Viking era sword and round shield, you’ll learn very quickly how good the shield is at doing its job making it very hard to land a thrust into the torso. As for stabbing at exposed legs and sword arm, that’s just kind of dumb. The thigh is the only part of a limb that stabbing into might actually be a viable attack in a fight, but again most of the thigh is protected by a shield and it’s a lot harder to make a hit with a thrust in the leg than it would be a cut. I’m not saying no one ever ran anyone through with a damn Viking era sword, what I’m saying is it was very uncommon
If you fight viking-style, you should have the leg of the sword-side in front, not the one on the shield-side. The way you fight is useful for kiteshields and other long shields, but not vikingshield. look for "holmgang hamburg" on youtube and you will see why...
Thanks for the comment, but I did modern re-enactment for over 20 years. I now choose to base what I do on the surviving source material. If I led with the sword leg I wouldn't be able to do most of the illustrated historical techniques.
I turned the volume to the max for hear you better, then 2:50 happened.
Am I the only one who's mind goes to "Defense against Fruit" when I hear his accent?