Calibrated MAF without a Tune - Will it work?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2020
- In this video, we take a look at the common practice of using a
"Calibrated" mass air meter (MAF) on a Foxbody Mustang with and without implementing a custom tune on the EEC-IV computer. The major issue relates to load calculations, which will impact both fuel and spark in a SUBSTANTIAL way.
To be clear, there is nothing wrong with such calibrated meters. In fact, my experience with many of the units coming from Pro-M is that they are very consistent in quality and accuracy... some of the best out there for these applications. But using them without a tune is really just a band-aid.
If you find these videos helpful, feel free to support the cause by sharing this video or donating a few "beer money" dollars to us at www.paypal.com/paypalme/thele... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Another awesome fox NERD video, lol, appreciate the hell out of these, learning so much.
I am surprised that the maf curve is even that close with the untuned MAF.
Another Great Video ! ! I do understand the new MAF and un-calibrated woes. LOL, But am learning so much from your help and teaching in these vids.
Thank you !
James
That is a great video. before I got my quarterhorse. I ran a "calibrated 24lb" bbk mass air for years. It pulled great in the upper rpm but ran rich at idle.
These cars are so old and the system that supports them the same you can get away with using a mass air and injectors to trick the computer and it will run fine,because of the newer Mustangs and the Coyote engine coming on the market we want to tune everything,there are forums out there that deal with cars made in the early 80s that had a somewhat primitive computer and the first question they will ask when a problem arises is "you got the tune yet?"
Guys in the late 80s early 90s got these cars to stand on their ass end straight down the track with no tune at all,however if your into the new way of doing things and you want to squeeze every little drop of power out of your Mustangs and are serious about racing then by all means get on the tune train,its pretty neat stuff.
This may seem silly but as a guy that has been involved with these cars before most of the new owners were born something i have learned is make sure all your hose connections to your intake are tight and you have no vacuum leaks, many a idle issue (which these cars are famous for) are caused by this, you will be pulling your hair,buying new parts where the answer is so cheap in the form of a few hose clamps,been there done that.
There are so many different type of intakes for these cars that we have a tendency to swap them out and just push our new hoses in and dont use any kind of fastener,i recently ran into this with a new GT40 tubular intake and not following my own advice till the light bulb came on and after that the car ran smooth as silk.
I did that with the pro m and my car ran excellent plugs had perfect color also.
I'm using a 80mm pro-m w/ 42lbs injectors with tune(408w). Don't think my tuner had my transfer sheet at the time. I guess he just found a decent sheet from pro-m for the 80mm and plugged that in. I'm installing holley term-x now. I was having an issue with this weird stumble right at 3k, I would have loved to be able to log it but couldn't. It was almost as if the ignition/spark was turning off and coming right back on. I'm ditching the TFI for the Dual-Sync on the Term-X install. Thank you for the videos. They are very helpful.
Entirely possible it was an AFR issue. With a 408 and 42 lb injectors, I’m heading it’s a naturally aspirated setup with bigger heads and cam. If so, you sometimes have to manipulate your low load cruising AFRs to numbers that don’t make sense on paper.
Thank you for the information!
thank you for this educational video this is very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
I'm so confident that my car is real close id bet that if a tuner had it that it wouldn't run as good when I got it back.
For those saying it works great, put a wide band on your car. My car with 30lb injectors and a calibrated maf is seeing near 20:1 on the afr at idle. I haven't had it out since installing it but the lean condition certainly explains the low rpm surge I get.
Excellent excellent video.
Just got a stage 1 TF top end kit twisted wedge 170 heads, and also got holley systemax upper and lower all new and about to install it, what should i do with reguard to the MAF? I already had 24lb injectors new that come with the car. Should i put the 24lb injectors in and use the stock maf? Or move to a calibrated 24LB MAF? what would you do
Is this kinda a standard conversion ratio or does it very from maf to maf? Iirc i ordered a mass air conversion kit with a caled maf for 42? Injectors but ended up only running 36s for now
Pro-M recommends tuning when running 42# injectors or larger and if the engine is smaller than 351 CID.
I love your channel. Question for you regarding calibrated MAFs. I have a completely stock 1989 GT with a 5-speed transmission. What are your thoughts on swapping the factory MAF meter to a 75mm Pro-M that is calibrated for 19lb injectors/stock air box? My thought process is if my stock meter were to go bad I was thinking about upgrading to a bigger Pro-M. My concern would be the A9L wouldn't like that. Thank you for providing us with fantastic content.
I would recommend replacing it with another stock MAF if it does for some reason. This is, of course, assuming you stay stock and on factory computer settings. The pro-m would probably be fine in this application, however, it’s unlikely to add any power to the car and that’s a lot more expensive than finding an original one in good working order.
@@LeechMotorsports Exactly. Junk yard MA sensors are $5.
I rather have a used Motorcraft than a new chinaporn.
Note, if they plug in, they're the same.👍 Check 5.0/4.6 crown Vic, TBird, etc.
That was awesome info. I have 24.lb with heads cam and intake. I've thought about the Terminator X. Any thoughts on that system?
I have lots of thoughts about that system. Many of which will be the basis of my you tube videos between now and the end of the year. But in a nutshell, if you have a simple bolt on fox that is a street car and your factory computer and harness are in proper working order, I can’t justify going to the Holley. The Holley is a good move if swapping from a carb to efi or are doing a custom build from scratch.
Thanks for sharing such useful information. I have a stock 5.0 with an upgraded 70mm throttle body and need to replace my maf. Would you recommend going with the Pro-m 80 for 19lb injectors? Thanks in advance.
Pro-m 75mm bullet is a more direct fit.
FYI
I also have a 94 4.6 MA obd1 TownCar. With a MA fail and the MA unplugged it runs way better. Crisper shifting elec aod, obviously not pulling timing on shifts, stronger pulls, instant start up, better cold idle, but loss of 2 mpg. Replaced with true Motorcraft MA sensor and... back to "normal" mode🙄. 😷😲
So as a stock engine with gt40 intake and 70 mm tb it seems like without a tune it would be better to keep the stock meter, but would it benefit from a larger sample tube say from some of the other ford models out there that fit on the fox?
No, as soon as you start messing with sampling tubes, the meter will read totally differently. Best bet is to stick with stock mass air meter or got to a larger meter at the same time you do a tune.
Great information thank you. How could I have you tune my Foxbody? I'm to far away to bring the car to you. My car isn't a race car it is full street so drivability is king.
Hey Stanley, not sure how I missed your comment. Sorry for the delay. I can definitely remote tune the car for you. And I'm with you 1000%, drivability is king on street cars. Start by shooting me an email at theleech405@gmail.com with as much information as you have about your current combo, any known issues, and where you'd like to go with the car. I'll make some initial recommendations and we will go from there. Would love to help you with your project. Talk soon.
The stock computer is not that bad it picks up and reads pretty good. I never had any problems at all with the pro m calibrated for 42. It ran super fast from idle to shift at 7000 rpm.
I need help. I have a stock 5.0. Im going to get a accufab 70mm throttle body and pair it with a pro m 75 mass air calibrated for my 19lb injectors. Do i need a tune for this, or is the pro m calibration good enough to run it trouble free. Its a 5 speed with the A9L comp.
Honestly there will be very little gain from those mods on a stock intake and heads. I would recommend leaving all that stock until upgrading other things. But, you will likely not need a custom tune for this setup if you decide to move forward.
So Ive rebuilt my 87 fox with b&m trans...did a maf conversion.. egr /tad/tab delete...added a e303 cam gt40p heads 93 cobra upper and lower intake ... So I got a calibrated bbk 19# maf would it run fine ??? Currently I'm getting the bugs out of it ..
It will probably need tuning to get it to run how it should. And you’ll probably need 24lb injectors. I suspect you’ll find the limits of the stock 19 lb ones pretty quick.
i have a 1994 cobra can i put a bbk 76 mm mass air with stock mass air sensor
I would not recommend doing that. Sensors are very much calibrated with a a specific housing. When you love a sensor to a different housing, the results are going to be unpredictable and almost certainly not good.
i'm not going to pretend i know anything about tuning other than just the basic stuff..but years ago i was told there was a hack that a few tuners did after a maf change and larger injectors was to change the CID to fool the computer for the load numbers to be closer to what it should be ? if you know what i am talking about would you be able to explain to me why they would use this process? or did it offer a way to "get by" without going too much into a tune?
Yes, changing cubic inches in the tune will affect load numbers. As cubic inch scalar goes up, the load for a given airflow amount goes down. And the other way around. But if you have the ability to tune that, you can go ahead and leave cubic inches alone in most cases and handle the issue elsewhere.
Might be a little late to ask. But I have a 2012 coyote with a supercharger. My mad is going out if I get a calibrated maf will. I need to retune?
In theory, no. But on a boosted application, I would absolutely never recommend making a change to a part this critical unless you at least have the tune rechecked. On newer cars with factory wideband control, closed loop WOT fueling, and knock sensors, you have a little cushion. But I still wouldn’t risk it. I put a “no-tune required” maf on my 2017 supercharged coyote. Idle fuel was off by nearly 12%, and the midrange needed some attention as well.
@@LeechMotorsports thanks
Plugs are perfect dark cardboard brown at w.o.t!
Hey I had a question, i just built a 5.0 in a 90 fox body. We did trick flow 11r heads, stage 2 cam, intake, etc. So its essentially a 400hp motor but we got it tuned and it only made 305hp. Only thing we didnt change was the stock maf which i found out is 55mm and its pretty restrictive. Do you think a pro m 75mm will be able to help out with the added airflow?
Yes, there will be an increase in power with a physically larger MAF. Won’t be a crazy increase, but I suspect that meter with a sharper tune could pick up another 20-30 hp.
@@LeechMotorsports ok sweet. You think that and a new throttle body will be a good idea. I forgot to mention we also kept the stock throttle body.
Without question, throttle body will help also. Don’t ever go bigger on the throttle body than the diameter of the throttle body opening on the upper intake. Ideally, they should match. And the mass air meter should be the same size or larger than the throttle body. Simple setup would be a pro-m 75mm bullet mass air meter calibrated for 24 or 30 lb injectors, and your choice of 70-75mm throttle body. Accufab makes BY FAR the nicest throttle bodies for these bolt on 5.0 applications. You’ll also need to make sure you get the egr spacer so you have something to bolt the throttle cable bracket to.
@@LeechMotorsports yes our trick flow track heat intake has a 75mm opening so I definitely agree that we should match that with a 75mm throttle body. I was looking at the bbk throttle bodys but now that you said accufab was better I will probably go with one of those. We will probably pair that with the pro m 75mm maf. And we also ordered a 75mm egr spacer that deletes the egr and the 2 coolant ports.
Yep, I think you are on the right track now. Final note is to do all upgrades at once, then retune. Also be aware of the need to rework transient fuel enrichment with the larger throttle body. Since such enrichment is largely based on the rate at which the throttle is opening (measured in degrees per second), it’s easy to see how your throttle will move less and flow more.
Its quite odd that you never mention that ProM has a tool that can recalibrate the MAF to work with different size injectors............
I just dont know why Matt didnt just tell people who buy a calibrated MAF that they should plug in the numbers given then run whats called the MAF autotune located in the last choice above the MAF transfer settings where you follow the directions then start the vehicle and it custom tailors your MAF flow as the engine is running aswell as sets the new fuel adaptive values..
Another thing I dont see you mention is disabling the MAF backflow clip settings that limits the MAF.....
Setting all backflow values to the highest setting of 3.99889 disables this hinderance..
Another thing I never see him cover is the different type of camshafts and how overlap affects the injector timing events and that the A9L is set at 352 degrees with waivering values in the higher load area and with camshafts that have tighter and wider overlaps that in order to get a smoother idle that stays at lambda you must change these values to reflect on your camshaft exhaust valve closing to intake valve opening events instead of changing the MAF transfer settings so you dont get a wet upper plenum from the injectors firing at the wrong time and having other cylinders draw the prematurely injected fuel up into the plenum..
Something else is in ISC gain multiplier vs RPM and that by setting all the values to 2 from top to bottom is the 100% best bet with lumpy cams... and that on Neutral Air RPM you make the 5 seconds 10 seconds increase the rpms to 96 then remove the 200 and 255 second entries and make them 20 and 30 seconds then you remove the 72rpms at the top right and make it a zero..The idle will be alot more smoother and easier to dial in the fuelling afterwards.
Can you tune my wife’s foxbody mustang.
Absolutely. Send an email to matt@leechmotorsports.com with info about the car and your immediate goals.
Leech Motorsports awesome 😎!!!!
👍👍👍😎😎
can you tune a car with a Calibrated MAF?
As long as the maf itself has a calibration from the manufacturer that will not have to go beyond 5v at your engine’s peak airflow, it can be tuned. So let’s say you have a simple 300hp heads,cam,intake deal. And 30 lb injectors. But your maf is “calibrated” for 42 or 60 lb injectors.... no problem. That can be tuned. But if you have the same combo, but using a maf “calibrated” for 19 lb injectors, you’ll end up hitting 5v on the meter before you reach redline. And in that scenario, there isn’t a way to tune around that.
@@LeechMotorsports current injectors are stock 19ib with BBK 19lb Calibrated MAF so this can't be tuned? Future setup will be at least 24lb with an HCI what MAF should I get so the car can be properly tuned? FYI the inside of the motor currently is stock, bolt on's are as follows BBK shorty headers BBK high flow Catted H-Pipe flow master cat back rear end 3.73 with ford aluminum driveshaft, Aftermarket 3 core rad after market thermostat set to 160C ford racing wires MSD cap rotor BBK CAI with BBK 70MM throttle body base timing is set. Under drive pullies on the front as well. Question is once this HCI gets installed what would be the best fuel pump and injector size as well MAF to have with this type of setup? For the custom tune. Thanks for your input
You have to think of a maf kind of like your injectors. With tuning, you can use an injector that is way bigger than what you actually need and it will still work. But if your injectors are too small, they will reach 100% duty cycle before you reach peak power and tuning can’t fix that. Maf is the same. Too Big and it can be tuned. Too small, and it will reach its equivalent 100% too soon and that can’t be tuned around. If you are going to stay naturally aspirated, a Walbro 190lph pump is plenty. If you then add boost after you do the HCI, you’ll likely need at least an aeromotive 340. The pro-m 75mm and 80mm mass air meters are very nice and are easiest to tune. If staying n/a, the meter calibrated for your eventual injector size will be a good fit, because that unit will run out of range right around the point where the injectors do. Then you log and tune to dial everything in,
@@LeechMotorsports thanks for all the information. Car is put away for the season but come the spring I intend to do the HCI, & really didn't know what injector size and MAF to put on. The HCI i looked at said min 24lb your saying I can have larger like a 30lb I hear ford has a great data sheet on tuning for there 24/30lb injectors. Problem I have is 3.73 short gear ratio top's out way too quick, being a street car mainly I'm thinking I should have gone 3.55; what's your take on the gear selection? It's a total rear end new from the clutch packs to everything else.
Ayye OKC
Indeed. You in okc also?
@@LeechMotorsports nah I played okc on 2k NBA lol 1 of fav teams
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